Return to Transcripts main page
Connect the World
Democrats Omar, Tlaib Yell at Trump Over Immigration Comments; Trump Says U.S. Wants to Make Nuclear Deal with Iran; Anthropic Ditches Core Safety Promise Amid Fight with Pentagon; Dozens of FBI Records Appear to be Missing from Epstein Files; Bodo/Glimt Continue Miracle Run to Reach UCL Round of 16. Aired 9-9:45a ET
Aired February 25, 2026 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST, CONNECT THE WORLD: Well, it is the morning after a big night in Washington, D.C. We'll get the reaction to Donald Trump's
State of the Union address, his political arguments and the raucous reactions he inspired while speaking to Congress and to American voters.
It is 09:00 a.m. in the U.S. capital. It is 06:00 p.m. here in Abu Dhabi from our Middle East programming headquarters. I'm Becky Anderson. This is
"Connect the World". Also coming up, Pentagon threatens AI firm Anthropic saying, drop your AI safeguards or get frozen out.
And CNN investigates the Epstein files, revealing the dozens of witness interviews appear to be missing. Stock market in New York opens in about 30
minutes from now. And ahead of that, open the futures markets, indicating a positive start the trading day does seem as if investors are taking Trump's
speech in their stride.
Tech stocks once again in focus ahead of Nvidia's latest earnings due after the bell on Wednesday, back there in about a half hours' time. I want to
begin with an historically long night in Washington. Here is President Donald Trump delivering the longest ever State of the Union address.
It clocked in at 1 hour and 47 minutes, breaking his own record set last year. Mr. Trump uses prime time moment to tout his economic and immigration
policies with his trade mark showmanship on full display.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Our country is winning again. In fact, we're winning so much that we really don't know
what to do about it. People are asking me, please, please, please, Mr. President, we're winning too much. We can't take it anymore.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, the president claiming during his speech that America is experiencing a new golden age with trillions of dollars in new investments
and tariff revenues transforming the country.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Tonight, after just one year, I can say with dignity and pride that we have achieved a transformation like no one has ever seen before, and a
turnaround for the ages. It is indeed a turnaround for the ages. And we will never go back to where we were just a very short time ago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, Mr. Trump's actual data on inflation, jobs and economic growth were questionable at best, and he tried, once again, to blame the
Biden Administration for creating a mess that he is now fixing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Are the same people in this chamber who voted for those disasters suddenly used the word affordability, knowing full well that they caused
and created the increased prices that all of our citizens had to endure. You caused that problem. They knew their statements were a dirty, rotten
lie.
Their policies created the high prices. Our policies are rapidly ending them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well CNN Whitehall -- CNN White House Reporter Alayna Treene with more for you.
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: What he did that I think a lot of Republicans in the room, specifically those that are very worried about the
midterm elections in November is that he offered some specific kind of populist policies that he has his eye on.
He talked about energy costs and said that he wants to encourage, or he is going to urge, AI companies and tech companies to try and cover a lot of
those costs, which Americans largely are paying for right now. He talked about energy for how much energy a lot of these companies are using.
He talked about housing costs, offering a proposal on that. So those are all things to keep in mind, and largely he stayed on script, which is not
very characteristic for this president. And I know from my conversations with my sources and that building behind me is that he took this speech
very seriously.
He had been preparing for days again, not also something typical of this president, but he knew that this was going to be a moment when a lot of
Americans who don't typically tune in to hear what he's saying, were going to be listening. And so, he very much tried to take that opportunity and
make it one that Republicans largely would be walking away with pretty happy with.
Let's break all of this down now with Lulu Garcia Navarro, CNN Contributor and the Host of "The New York Times" podcast, the interview. It's really
good to have you. Look, he clearly did take that speech seriously, written, of course, by speech writers.
[09:05:00]
And he did stay on script to a degree which is more than we might expect of Donald Trump. How would you rate it, first and foremost?
LULU GARCIA NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think he didn't do any harm, which, with Donald Trump is a success, because often times his supporters, his
allies in the House and the Senate, you know, kind of clutch their heart when he makes some sort of outlandish claim that they then have to walk
back.
He stayed on teleprompter, as I like to say. This was a speech that he practiced and he delivered. It had lots of made for TV moments. I'm going
to quote my mother here, who is a Republican, watches all of this, stayed up for the event, and she said, if nothing else, he's a great show man.
Everything he says is a mixture of falsehoods and a half truth, but he's learned how to say them so that he convinces people, I doubt, though, that
he'll keep the House in the midterm elections. I concur.
ANDERSON: Good on mom. Excellent analysis. Thank you for that. Send her our love. Optics matter, of course, Lulu and this was Donald Trump in his
glory. He's confident he's sticking to the script. When you see that, then you see Ilhan Omar, for example, the Democrat shouting from the ranks, as
it were.
I just want to get your response to that. I want our viewers before I do just to play that clip. Stand by.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ILHAN OMAR (D-MN): You have killed Americans.
TRUMP: The removal of criminal aliens, in many cases, drug lords, murders all over our country. They're blocking the removal of these people out of
our country, and you should be ashamed of yourself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: And Democrats staying seated when he asked them to stand, a very performative part of that speech. And I'm sure those who wrote it thought
he landed it really well. Was that a party in defiance, or was this a party playing straight into Trump's arena? Lulu, what do you think?
NAVARRO: I mean, I think we're going to have to see what exactly happens. But I think there was something else that happened last night that has not
gotten a lot of attention. There were three local elections in which the Democrats vastly over performed and won seats.
And so, you know, what we are seeing in the ballot box is really going to be the proof of this. And what we are seeing is Democrats over performing.
If you look at polling, Democrats aren't popular. They're not popular when their own parties, but when people are going to vote, they're voting
overwhelmingly for Democrats.
And we're seeing Trump losing a lot of those constituencies that he'd won in 2024 and that's women, that's suburban women, that's Latinos, and that's
young people. That was part of his sort of record-breaking coalition, and he's really losing those people. And I'm not sure that anything that he did
last night is going to sway that.
You know, as you know, we all consume these speeches, except for the die hard among us who watch it live, like my mother. We all consume it on
clips. And so, in that sense, those things that you just showed that's going to be good for Republicans. They're going to try and run on that
showing.
Do you want those people back in charge again? Look at them. They're crazy. That was a line that Trump actually used. They're not even standing up for
American citizens. But there are other things that matter more to the American people right now. That word that Trump derided, affordability is
certainly one of them.
ANDERSON: Yeah, and Lulu, I want to get our viewers a look at some of the polling numbers that came out as the speech ended. These are snap polls. Of
course, 54 percent of viewers who watched that State of the Union speech said that Trump had the right priorities, if we strip away the showmanship,
though.
To your point, where did Trump genuinely land punches that will help Republicans in these mid-term elections in November?
NAVARRO: Anything to do with the cost of living. So, when he was talking about electricity, electricity is crazy expensive in this country right
now. It's hitting people across the nation because of AI and how they use the grid, and so his proposal to have these AI companies actually build
their own plants so that they don't raise the prices for regular Americans.
I think that's going to be popular. I think another sort of big bipartisan hit, if you will, was saying that members of Congress shouldn't be able to
trade stocks. That, again, is a big issue where it taps into this perception of corruption by people in power. So, I think that also is
something popular, but the big issues, health care, didn't hear anything about that.
[09:10:00]
Basically, anything that's going to lower people's grocery prices. Also didn't hear much about that. And there was this other really big issue.
Half of the American fleet is now in the Persian Gulf. Why are we going to war? He really didn't talk about that either. So, there are a lot of
pending issues, which he avoided.
So, I think it's a kind of wash. I think Republicans can be happy that he seemed robust, forceful on message, but at the end of the day, will it
change people's minds? I'm not so sure.
ANDERSON: I'm going to talk a little bit more about Iran momentarily. I think one of my producers is right in saying he spoke for about 3.5 minutes
on foreign policy issues that of course, have an enormous impact on national security, very specifically on Iran out of a 1 hour 47-minute
speech.
And certainly, didn't make any effort to sell what is a potential strike on Iran to the American public. Does that surprise you?
NAVARRO: I mean, no, because if you think about their actions in Venezuela. I mean, they certainly didn't try and sell that either. Either before they
took the action of taking out Maduro, or now we still don't know exactly what's happening there, what the plan is, what the U.S. involvement is.
You know, the Maduro government is still basically intact, and so what is happening in Iran? Again, lots of confusion. He had touted that those
earlier strikes on Iran had destroyed their nuclear capabilities. Now he's saying that he's -- you know, wants to stop them from getting a nuclear
weapon.
Which is it? It's very confusing. I think the American people don't fully understand it. That said, you know, that's not top of mind. People aren't
on the street talking about it, if there's a strike, if it goes badly, if it metastasizes into a wider conflict, I think then you're going to have
the American public wake up to this and perhaps be very upset about it.
But at the moment, again, the subject that everyone talks about every day is cost of living and jobs. And you know, those are the issues that I hear
just from everyday Americans.
ANDERSON: Yeah. CNN's Stephen Collinson, who, you know, well, a regular guest on this show, wrote in his analysis that quote, he, Donald Trump
spends more time using government to seek vengeance against his enemies, threatening American allies and churning out vitriol on his social media
feeds than he does in empathizing with the cost of living.
If you zoom out, his popularity low. The Supreme Court set back on tariffs, economic anxiety lingering. How would you describe the trajectory of this
presidency? And ultimately, do you believe then that Tuesday night changed that trajectory in any way?
NAVARRO: I think what you can say about this Donald Trump era is overreach. You have seen this administration at every turn, break through norms, legal
boundaries in every way possible. This is a very ideological government. They have very clear ideas about what they would like to see happen in the
United States of America and the public and even legal constraints be damned.
We are starting now to see some pushback on that, right? So first you see the Supreme Court really in its first major decision taking one of the
centerpieces of Trump's economic policy and taking it away from him, even though he has instituted these blanket tariffs, it's going to be much more
difficult for him to use the cudgel of tariffs in the way that he has been up until now, especially in the way that he negotiates with other
countries.
And then secondly, I think you know, we are coming into this election season, and if indeed the House is lost, as is predicted, and possibly the
Senate might be in play. That's a harder poll, but it might be possible, considering where the American public is at. Then, you know, this era of
Trump doing whatever he wants is going to be effectively over.
ANDERSON: Lulu, it's always good to have you. And I just have to mark the fact that I -- your recent interview with Gisele Pelicot was remarkable to
listen to, by the way, way off what we're talking about today. Thank you for your insight and analysis on the State of the Union address.
[09:15:00]
But I just had to mark off the fact that I think that it was, you know, journalism at its absolute best, interviewing at its absolute best, and I
appreciate it. Thank you very much indeed. Well, as I mentioned, President Trump took aim at Iran during his stay at the Union address, condemning
what he called its quote, sinister nuclear ambitions.
He also warned that Tehran has developed missiles that can threaten Europe and is working on missiles that will soon reach the United States, while
accusing the regime and its proxies of spreading terror. Here's more from the president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: My preference is to solve this problem through diplomacy, but one thing is certain, I will never allow the world's number one sponsor of
terror, which they are by far, to have a nuclear weapon. Can't let that happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: His remarks come as the United States continues its significant military buildup in the Middle East. And ahead of more indirect nuclear
talks with Iran tomorrow, Thursday. CNN's Paula Hancocks joining me now, you've been following the sort of machinations of this.
It's a waiting game. Ultimately, it's clear that the decision making on this rests with the U.S. President and trying to second guess what Donald
Trump will do is a fool's game to a degree. What do we know at this point?
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What we know, Becky, is that there will be a meeting tomorrow in Geneva. We know that there will be the U.S. and
Iran that will resume these talks. This is the third round of the talks, mediated by Oman. There is a sense that President Trump may not know
exactly what his plan of action is at this point.
Certainly, that's what our colleagues in the White House have been hearing from different officials. So, the next 48 hours are critical. What happens
tomorrow at these talks, and whether Iran can offer enough to please Donald Trump is key.
ANDERSON: Yeah. So, some pretty bombastic language from the U.S. President, and anybody should be surprised by that, but very specifically, have we had
a response from Iran to the remarks that he made last night?
HANCOCKS: We have, and they did not hold back. We heard from the foreign ministry spokesperson, and he basically accused President Trump of quote,
big lies, disinformation, misinformation about the nuclear and missile program, also about the number of anti-regime protesters that President
Trump had claimed had been killed by security forces.
ANDERSON: That is 32000, I think.
HANCOCKS: He did --
ANDERSON: -- those numbers up, but -- it was a lot of people.
HANCOCKS: -- The official line is something like 3000.
ANDERSON: Yeah.
HANCOCKS: So, they also compared it to Nazi propaganda at one point. So, it was a strong response to this State of the Union speech. But what we did
hear from President Trump as well is that he does believe that Iran wants a deal. He specified, though, that he hasn't heard what he called the secret
words, which is, we will never have a nuclear weapon.
It's worth pointing out, we have heard that from Tehran with some clarity on a number of occasions. In fact, just a few hours before the State of the
Union address, we heard it from the foreign minister. But of course, there are many who doubt the veracity of that statement.
So, at this point, we are all looking to tomorrow. We're looking to Geneva and to see if we can get any clarity as to whether these very significant
gaps between the two sides can be bridged.
ANDERSON: Paula Hancocks in the house for you folks. Paula, thank you. Still to come on "Connect the World", new information about what's missing
from the Epstein files and what a CNN review has revealed, that is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:20:00]
ANDERSON: Well Breaking News into CNN. AI firm Anthropic is ditching its core safety promise in the middle of a fight with the U.S. Pentagon. Now
this comes after a Pentagon ultimatum to the firm, either remove some safeguards on its AI model, Claude by Friday, we're talking end of this
week, or risk losing millions, if not billions, of dollars, in a lucrative U.S. military contract.
Well, Clare Duffy, following this breaking news from New York. Clare, is Anthropic, essentially caving? And if so, why? Can you just explain the
significance of this news?
CLARE DUFFY, CNN TECH REPORTER: Yeah, Becky, its really interesting timing, and it's not clear whether this change to Anthropic core safety principle
is directly related to this conflict that they're having with the Pentagon. At the heart of that fight with the Pentagon is two safety principles that
Anthropic has said it is unwilling to compromise on the ability to use AI to enable mass surveillance, potentially of American citizens, and the
ability of using AI to operate fully autonomous weapons without human control.
Anthropic has said it is not willing to drop those two safety principles, which the Pentagon would like it to change in order to keep this $200
million contract. So far as we know, and according to us, we're familiar with the discussions last night, Anthropic is still not budging on those
two pieces of its principles, but the company this morning announcing that it is changing sort of its core approach to safety.
Anthropic has long said over the past two years that it would not continue developing AI models if it felt like it couldn't control them. It would
pause development if it felt like it could no longer have a handle on safety. The company is now walking that back, essentially saying that with
other industry competitors, moving forward, plowing ahead with development.
It doesn't make sense for Anthropic to stay behind. It says that it will have new, sort of adjustable safety principles. It will be, you know,
transparency is remaining a key part of this safety approach. But the company is essentially saying, we don't want others getting ahead while we
stay behind in the name of safety, because overall, then the industry stays less safe, Becky.
So, this is really interesting, sort of two sides of this coin. On one hand, the company saying it is holding firm on these military related uses
of its technology, but also saying that it is going to potentially move faster in developing those core models.
ANDERSON: And there will be people out there who say, you know this, the consequences of this announcement are pretty grave for the rest of us,
given that Anthropic was seen to -- seen as a company built by a company, by the way, who by a group of people who left open AI, because they were
concerned about, you know, what that company was up to with regard sort of safety and guard rails.
This is a company people, to a degree of relied on to be setting the sort of, you know, that the sort of AI safety, sort of standards for guardrails.
So, the consequences as snap reaction from you as you cover this, are what?
DUFFY: Yeah, I mean, it could be huge. Anthropic has really branded itself as the AI safety company. It's talked about itself as the AI safety company
with a soul. And it said that the goal of its previous safety policy was to create a race to the top to encourage the entire industry to adopt better
safety practices, rather than a race to the bottom.
It's essentially now saying that that hasn't played out, and so it needs to increase the speed of its development to keep up here, but without those
broad industry level safety practices in place that could potentially lead us to a really dangerous place, Becky.
ANDERSON: They go low, we go high. Was always the sort of sense you got from this company. I just wonder, finally, if that race is so fast at this
point and a company like Anthropic conceding that it needs to keep up.
[09:25:00]
And by changing its core safety principles, it believes it can do so. I do wonder where we are headed.
DUFFY: Yeah, and I think the Pentagon fight really puts this into sharp relief. You know, Pete Hegseth has threatened to use the defense production
act to gain access to Anthropic technology and use it in whatever way it wants. Now it's not clear if that's going to happen or how this sort of
05:00 p.m. deadline fight tomorrow is going to play out.
But that threat sort of suggests the fact that you could see a government tell one of these big tech companies to hand over this really powerful
technology, so that the government can use it in any way that it wants, regardless of what the leaders of that company would like.
Again, not clear if that's going to play out in this case, but I think that sort of suggests the stakes here if these companies continue to accelerate
development of these models with limited safety guard rails.
ANDERSON: Clare, it's good to have you. Thank you very much indeed. We will do a lot more on this, just reiterating, as Clare was making very clear
there, but just reiterating that it isn't clear that the policy change that we've been discussing is actually related to Anthropic's meeting with
Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth yesterday.
We know that we await to see what the definitive sort of story is on that. And there are 48 hours before we get to that.
DUFFY: Thank you so much.
ANDERSON: But a really interesting development. And Clare, good to have you. Thank you. Well, a CNN investigation and review of the Epstein files
have uncovered the dozens of witness interviews appear to be missing from the massive tranche of files released by the Department of Justice just
last month.
An evidence log provided to attorneys for Epstein associate Ghislaine Maxwell includes serial numbers for about 325 FBI witness Interview
records, but more than 90 of those records, over a quarter of that list, don't appear to be present on the DOJ website.
Those missing files include three interviews related to a woman who accused Epstein and President Trump of sexually assaulting her decades ago. The
president has consistently denied any wrong doing. Joining us now is CNN Legal Analyst, Joey Jackson, also a Criminal Defense Attorney and Former
Prosecutor. What do you make of this?
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Nothing good, Becky. I mean, look, this is part of what's an ongoing problem with respect to the release of
information. You might recall that the Transparency Act was passed virtually unanimously by Congress, right? That's after a fight and a fight,
and it's not, we're not going to release the files, and the president trying to obstruct the files and say, we're not going to do it.
And then finally, Congress, because there appears to be bipartisan support, that is support from both parties, said, you know what, we're going to do
this. And so, the act was passed back in November of last year, November 19, to be exact, only one Congress person out of 435 voted no.
And in the Senate, there's 100 senators vote, you know, unanimously passed. And so, then you have a situation where, OK, it's passed on the 19th of
November 2025. We're going to give you everything, American people 30 days later. So here comes December 19, 2025 Becky, what do we get?
Nothing, a missed deadline. And then, of course, there's a late filing that they were ultimately passed or given out by the Justice Department of
Information. So, January 5th, we get a large tranche of information. January 20th, we get a large tranche of information. But where's everything
else?
And so, the fact is, the Department of Justice has said in their defense that, listen, it's a lot of information. We've released 3.5 million, you
know, documents, and as a result of that, there's going to be errors, there's going to be delays. We've got 400 lawyers on this, but now comes
this.
And how interesting that you have a situation where records involving the President of the United States happen to be missing. So, I don't think
there is a view by either Congress or the American people that this was done in good faith. I think the view, Becky, is that this is part of an
overall cover up.
They're mad as heck. They're not going to take it anymore. And so, the big question becomes what we do now, because obviously there are survivors here
who have been aggrieved, and I think the American people want accountability. The Epstein Transparency Act calls for accountability.
The issue is whether we'll get that in the form of information being released to the public, and to date, there have been many hiccups in that
regard, as I've just described.
ANDERSON: And just one observation, notably absent any mention of the Epstein files or the survivors in the State of the Union address last
night.
[09:30:00]
Joey, good to have you. Thank you very much indeed for joining us. Coming up, it's the start of the trading day on Wall Street. And get a response
from investors to that speech. Plus, we'll explain the so-called K-shaped economy in the United States. That is the bell. Find out which branch your
household finances would fall into. More on that after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: All right, the bell rang on Wall Street about 2.5 minutes ago. So, let's see how stocks are getting on at the open, not as high as they
have been of late, but nevertheless in pretty good shape, the series of historic highs that we've seen on these indices this year.
One factor in what some economists are calling a K-shaped economy. So, let's try to explain and simplify what a K-shaped economy actually looks
like. It's a tale of two tracks heading in opposite directions. Hence the K, a relatively small share of already wealthy Americans are seeing
continued gains.
Thanks in part to what have been these booming stock markets, unemployment low, and those Americans with high paying jobs have for the last few
months, been insulated from rising prices and have kept spending money, which is one small factor in prices actually remaining higher.
That brings us to the bottom branch of that K, those middle- and lower- income households. In other words, most Americans struggling even more than usual, due in part to those persistently high prices to cover expenses and
any emergency spending, some people take out loans.
U.S. household debt then mounting, hitting a record high of 18.8 trillion last year. And the number of loans that borrowers can't repay, excuse me,
also known as delinquency is rising. Bankruptcies hit a five-year high, according to recent Federal Reserve data.
And the more economic speed bumps like debt problems and bankruptcy that households hit on this track, the further they are pushed away from the
smooth sailing track on top of the K. Excuse me. William Lee, Chief Economist at Global Economic Advisors, joining us now.
It's good to have you, William. Thank you for joining us. Do you agree with the idea of the K-shaped economy that we just explained? Is it part of the
Donald Trump economic reality, sir?
[09:35:00]
WILLIAM LEE, CHIEF ECONOMIST AT GLOBAL ECONOMIC ADVISORS: Well, the K- shaped economy has been a part of the economic landscape in the United States for quite a while, it went far back beyond Donald Trump, in fact,
because more and more people are finding it more difficult to keep up with the cost of living, and that goes back even to the days of Obama and
Clinton.
But now we really have that the sharp contrast now, because the stock market gains that you just mentioned have helped a good chunk of the
population, about 10 percent actually be able to maintain a very high standard of living, whereas those who are living paycheck to paycheck, and
not owners of stocks and financial assets, which is about 80 percent of the economy.
They are the ones that are really having to get two jobs and finding that the affordability issue is a real one in their household, because they're
saying our wages and incomes aren't keeping up. And I think President Trump is trying to address that in the State of the Union address.
ANDERSON: Well, just explain how?
LEE: Oh, well, he talked about policies to try to increase income, because I think the way to address the affordability issue is to recognize that
even though the policies that are put in place now are keeping inflation from rising even at -- an even faster pace. Remember, inflation for
consumers is rising about two- and three-quarter percent.
-- without the tariffs, it would have been down two and a quarter percent. So, the tariffs are at about half a percentage point over to inflation last
year. But people don't care that prices are not rising as fast as they did before. They care that prices are high, and the only way to combat high
prices is with higher income.
And President Trump has said, well, I'm going to try to cut your taxes to give you more income to take home. And also, I'm going to try to make
housing affordability a little bit easier to buy by increasing the supply of housing coming on the market. Part of that is through regulation.
But the big message, I think, that he had in the speech was, I'm using tariffs to incentivize more investments into United States, so that we can
create more high paying jobs and make people more productive by investing in technology, which makes the people who are having jobs already more
productive, and more productive workers get paid more.
ANDERSON: Yeah, OK. I get your argument. I mean, you know, I think there'll be a lot of people watching this who say, first of all, there's an enormous
amount of uncertainty around those tariffs. Secondly, when we look at these three big stock indices over the course of the last 12 months, to your
point, this represents the top leg of that K-shaped economy where anyone with stocks is flying.
It's a small number. We are in a situation the markets are effectively propping up the U.S. economy at this point, and that does suggest that
there could be some fragility to the growth story. But, you know, I just wonder, you know, these markets, you know, are not going to be too bothered
whether Donald Trump is more focused on Wall Street than Main Street.
But as we move through this year and Republicans get set to go to the polls, and these are Republican representatives go to the polls in
November, it will become increasingly important, won't it, that Donald Trump is seen to be concentrating on this affordability issue and
acknowledging that Mainstreet is suffering?
LEE: Oh, very much so. And I'd like to push back a little bit against what you just said about the Wall Street propping up the economy. Wall Street is
reflection of the investments that are going on in the economy, and whether or not they're profitable. And profitable investments that are really
pushing up the stock market today are the investments in technology.
And the technology investments have been going on for last three years under Biden Administration, as well as under the previous Trump
Administration, and those investments are starting to pay off, and that's why the stock market has been so high. And we're not even talking about
artificial intelligence hitting the factory floor or offices yet.
And when artificial intelligence does come in and make workers yet more productive, then the incomes will go up even higher. Now the downside of
that, of course, which I'm sure you're going to bring up, is that as workers become more productive, companies will not have to hire as many
people as they did before.
And that's really one of the vulnerabilities of our economy right now is that the pace of job creation is slowing down.
ANDERSON: Yeah.
LEE: So that if you don't have a job, it's hard to find, but those who do have jobs are going to find that their incomes are getting higher and
higher.
ANDERSON: Yeah, no, you make a very good point, and you anticipated my next question to you, and you've dealt with it. So, I just want to close this
out with the following. You clearly support many of Donald Trump's policies, but as an economist, do you struggle with the uncertainty about
this sort of tariff whiplash, not just for the U.S. economy, but for the. global economy.
[09:40:00]
LEE: Becky, I absolutely struggle with that uncertainty. But for me, the uncertainty is whether or not Donald Trump would be successful in shifting
to a different revenue source for financing the U.S. government. He's trying to shift from income taxes to expenditure taxes.
And right now, he's focusing on expenditures, spending on foreign stuff that's made abroad, and that's important to United States. And I think one
way look at this, it is successful that he's trying to disincentivize people from spending money on stuff that's made abroad, and buy stuff
that's made here.
ANDERSON: Yeah.
LEE: But -- and reduce the burden on taxi income, which this incentivizes work.
ANDERSON: Understood. Good to have you, sir, always a pleasure. Thank you for that. We are going to take a very short break at this point --
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Well, surely this is the best story in football for quite some time, a team based inside the Arctic Circle, but a glimpse into the
Champions League round 16 after victory last night. My colleague Amanda Davies has more on that in "World Sport" -- we are back at the top of the
hour for you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:45:00]
(WORLD SPORT)
END
