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Trump's Marathon State of the Union Speech; Dozens of FBI Records Missing from Epstein Files; Hezbollah Will Not Intervene if U.S. Strikes Iran; Trump Calls Venezuela a "New Friend". Aired 10-11a ET
Aired February 25, 2026 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:00]
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Live from CNN Abu Dhabi, this is CONNECT THE WORLD with Becky Anderson.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST (voice-over): And it is the second hour of the show from our Middle East programming headquarters. Wherever you are
watching, you are more than welcome. I'm Becky Anderson in Abu Dhabi, where the time is just after 7 in the evening.
It is 10 am in Washington, where we're following the fallout from Donald Trump's State of the Union address last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Members of Congress, the state of our union is strong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: U.S. President Donald Trump delivering his first State of the Union address of his second term. At 107 minutes, it was the longest in
recent history. Much of that time filled with spectacle and symbolism as Mr. Trump tried to drive home his message on American prosperity.
Ever the showman, the president delivered on some made-for-TV moments. Not least was this one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Here with us tonight is a group of winners who just made the entire nation proud, the men's gold medal Olympic hockey team.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, Mr. Trump spent a significant amount of time lauding these gold medalists to kick things off before fully getting into the politics. A
bit later, he oversaw the reunion of this man and his niece. The man had been a political prisoner in Venezuela under the Maduro regime.
And he closed it out with this, first lady Melania Trump delivering the Medal of Honor to a 100-year old war veteran who served in Korea. That
received a standing ovation from Republicans and Democrats alike.
When it came to the substance of the speech, the president very much stayed on message. He hailed the strength of the economy while nodding to the
problem of affordability.
He did game the Democrats on immigration, a long-favorite campaign theme. And the few minutes he did spend on foreign policy, he spoke about
potential strikes in Iran.
We're going to take you through all of those key points with our panelists today.
Mike Dubke is the former director of White House communications, serving during the Trump administration.
And Robby Mook was Hillary Clinton's campaign manager in 2016.
It's good to have you both. Thank you very much indeed. Long night but well worth having -- doing a deep dive on.
Mike, you worked for Trump. He seemed to be in his element last night and he delivered a sharp blow to Democrats on immigration, even after he's
faced backlash for his crackdown, of course, in Minneapolis, his deadly crackdown. Let's watch that, as some would describe it, standout moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: So tonight I'm inviting every legislator to join with my administration and reaffirming a fundamental principle. If you agree with
this statement, then stand up and show your support. The first duty of the American government is to protect American citizens, not illegal aliens.
Isn't that a shame?
You should be ashamed of yourself not standing up. You should be ashamed of yourself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Mike, your takeaways on that and Trump's broader performance last night.
MIKE DUBKE, FORMER DIRECTOR OF TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS: Yes, well, first of all, thank you for having me.
Second, in terms of this speech, State of the Union addresses are generally a opportunity for an administration to talk about the accomplishments that
they've had and then a reset of what the economic or international affairs messaging that they want to convey for the next -- for the next year, a
really message reset of sorts.
[10:05:07]
This speech was nothing like that. It was rather 47 individual snippets of material that I think was made for social media. I was -- I was joking with
someone last night that this was not made for TV; this was a made-for- TikTok speech.
That particular snippet that that you just showed, I think, was setting up the very black-and-white dichotomy that the administration is intending to
run for the midterm elections of a us-versus-them vis-a-vis the Democrats in Congress.
You had 75 Democrats not show up, which was, I believe, an historic high for the opposing party. But it was a very purposeful piece of rhetoric that
the president threw out there.
He wanted to draw into stark relief the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Whether it worked or not, I think that we can debate for the
rest of this half hour. But it was very much intentional on the president's part.
ANDERSON: Yes.
Robby, you can imagine Trump's camp is going to use that moment against Democrats for the rest of this year.
How damaging do you believe that was, if at all?
ROBBY MOOK, FORMER CAMPAIGN MANAGER, HILLARY CLINTON 2016: Well, it was a gimmick and that's why the Democrats didn't play into it. I think the fact
of the matter is the president had one thing he had to do in this speech and that is prove to the American people he's focused on lowering the cost
of living.
I think there was a CNN poll out Monday that showed 70 percent of American voters think that the president's focused on the wrong things. So that was
what he needed to do to help the legislators in that room win reelection in these midterms.
And I actually agree with Mike. I think he just created a bunch of snacks for social media that are going to maybe help Donald Trump or make him feel
better or get likes. I don't think they're going to help anyone, any Republican in that room, win reelection.
And that's the problem. He just didn't -- we didn't hear anything about cost of living except either fake news -- he claimed prices were down,
which they're not.
But then he doubled down on tariffs. He tripled down on tariffs, which are a massive tax increase and are increasing prices. So I think he -- and none
of the Republicans want to talk about that. So he left them in a real bind in my opinion.
ANDERSON: Yes. I mean, electricity prices are high. I mean, let's be quite frank. Prices of some goods and services have come down. Let's be quite
clear about that.
Mike, when it comes to the economy, Donald Trump touted his tax cuts and record-high stock prices but he went back to calling affordability a
Democratic hoax. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The same people in this chamber who voted for those disasters suddenly used the word affordability, a word, they just used it. Somebody
gave it to them, knowing full well that they caused and created the increased prices that all of our citizens had to endure. You caused that
problem. You caused that problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: So does Donald Trump. Mike, understand that Main Street is not feeling the same way about the economy as Wall Street is?
DUBKE: I think that he does understand that. However -- and this is where I would push back on the administration -- what I don't think that they're
doing rhetorically, though, is really emphasizing that.
I think the president's caught up on this word "affordability." That is a, you know, it's new to the kind of political vocabulary. We used to talk
about inflation and prices and now it's all, you know, been tied together with a nice bow in the word affordability.
I wish he would just move on from that and focus on the things that that have been accomplished in this administration. And this is where I'm going
to push back on Robby a little bit.
Inflation is down. It's at the lowest point it's been in five years. We've got gas prices down. We've got drug prices down with -- and a pathway
forward with -- partially with TrumpRx.
We've got -- we've got an opportunity for young children to participate in these Trump accounts, which is a -- it's a fantastic donation made by
Michael Dell and others to give to give those in lower incomes an opportunity to really kind of grow with the American economy.
And then as you point out, the stock market is up; 60 percent to 68 percent of Americans participate in the stock market. So it's not nothing. But to
the point of getting hung up on the word affordability --
(CROSSTALK)
[10:10:00]
DUBKE: -- I'm with Bobby on that. I wish the administration would move on and talk a little bit more about, you know, how we continue to lower
prices.
ANDERSON: But affordability, Robby, is a real opening for Democrats. Let's listen to how Virginia congresswoman (sic) Abigail Spanberger put it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. ABIGAIL SPANBERGER (D-VA): Is the president working to make life more affordable for you and your family?
We all know the answer is no.
Costs are too high, in housing, health care, energy and child care. And I know these same conversations are being had all across this country
because, since this president took office last year, his reckless trade policies have forced American families to pay more than $1,700 each in
tariff costs.
Small businesses have suffered, farmers have suffered, some losing entire markets. Every day Americans are paying the price.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: That's how Abigail Spanberger put it, Robby.
Is the Democratic Party able to unify around this message?
I mean, if you take last night as an example, Democrats were not a unified front. Some protested outside the chamber. Those who were inside sat
defiantly, quietly inside the chamber.
What was your takeout on the performance of the Democrats and whether or not they can coalesce around affordability or whatever else you think it is
that they should coalesce around ahead of these midterms?
MOOK: Yes. Look, I do wish the Democrats would be more unified in terms of the messaging on this. I -- the fact of the matter is this, this midterm
election is going to be a referendum on Donald Trump.
And I think the focus here needs to be on these tariffs. They're incredibly unpopular. They're incredibly unpopular in some of the more rural
Republican districts where I think Democrats stand a real chance to win, certainly in some of these Senate states like Iowa.
They've been crushing farmers. And so I, you know, personally, I'd make this a referendum on those tariffs. Only about a third of Americans support
them. Those are the same third of Americans that will support Donald Trump on anything he does whatsoever. And they just don't have a good answer on
it.
Every time Republicans are pressed on this, it's all, "let's give it more time."
"Oh, the president has a good idea," but they can't really explain what it is.
And they're hurting people. So I, you know, I would -- I would underscore that more but you know, as Governor Spanberger pointed out, this is a
health care issue. This -- the big beautiful bill is really hurting rural hospitals. They're having to close.
The president's not doing anything on energy. He claims he's going to crack down on the data centers. I'll believe it when I see it. So there are other
avenues to go. But to me, these tariffs are really the key issue.
ANDERSON: I just want to turn both of you to Iran, which came up about 90 minutes into Trump's 107-minutes speech. Typically, when U.S. presidents
are weighing war, there's a full court press explaining to Americans why it is that their troops and taxpayer are going toward a foreign entanglement.
We've not seen that from Trump and his team. Certainly, if you polled viewers where I am in this region -- and I'm in the UAE in Abu Dhabi, there
were people eagerly anticipating any clarity from the president. Let's have a listen to part of what he did have to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: For decades, it had been the policy of the United States never to allow Iran to obtain a nuclear weapon, many decades. Since they seized
control of that proud nation 47 years ago, the regime and its murderous proxies have spread nothing but terrorism and death and hate.
They have killed and maimed thousands of American service members and hundreds of thousands and even millions of people.
And just over the last couple of months, with the protests, they have killed at least, it looks like, 32,000 protesters, 32,000 protesters in
their own country.
They were warned to make no future attempts to rebuild their weapons program, in particular, nuclear weapons. Yet they continue. They're
starting it all over. We wiped it out and they want to start all over again and are at this moment again pursuing their sinister ambitions.
We are in negotiations with them. They want to make a deal but we haven't heard those secret words: We will never have a nuclear weapon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Look, we can fact-check that for a whole bunch of things. But I'm not going to do that now.
[10:15:00]
I just wonder, Mike, whether that is enough of an explanation, particularly for Trump's own America First MAGA base.
DUBKE: Probably not. And the reason for that, I think the throughline for the explanation is that we cannot allow the regime in Tehran to reacquire
or get close again to having nuclear capability, especially with the ability to fire missiles of longer range variety.
But what the president's not doing and not talking about is the destabilization, that Tehran has had, implies in the entire Middle East. I
was just in Iraq for the parliamentary elections.
And it was very surprising and amazing to me that in this push-and-pull between Tehran and Washington, Washington seems to actually get -- been
getting its mojo back and a lot of Iraqis and others in the Middle East are turning to Washington.
With the downgrading of Hamas, the downgrading of Hezbollah, the Iranian proxies are on the run and this is a great moment. I think an opportunity
for the United States.
But has the president really kind of talked about that overall diplomatic pathway forward for the United States to reassert itself in an area that
has been under duress for 20 or 30 years?
No, he's got to do a better job on that. But the opportunities are there.
ANDERSON: Finally, Robby, what do you make of Trump's position there, his gunboat diplomacy, as it were?
And does that sound like a president bent on strikes to you?
MOOK: I mean, I don't know. Different Donald Trumps show up at different times. This is a guy who ran against regime change, ran against foreign
intervention overseas. We just -- we just undertook regime change in Venezuela.
We hear all the time they're planning on regime change in Cuba. And now we're hearing it in Iran.
And my question is, what's the plan?
You know he's talked about taking out the supreme leader.
What's -- what comes next?
What's the plan?
Nobody likes this regime. They're a bad regime. Their proxies have killed people. They destabilize the region. All that's true.
But Saddam Hussein was a bad guy and that was a disaster. And so I think what everybody's just asking for is a plan. And I don't think we're ever
going to get one, because I don't think he has one.
ANDERSON: Stand by, both of you. It's good to have you on the show. I'm going to return to Iran later with a Middle East scholar. We'll pick up
with you guys after this break with the topic Donald Trump did not mention once during his speech, guys, and that was the Epstein files. More on that
after this.
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[10:20:00]
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ANDERSON: Well, notice -- let me start that again.
Welcome back.
Noticeably absent during president Trump's record 1:47 State of the Union address last night, any mention of the Epstein files or the survivors, some
of whom were sitting with lawmakers in the House chamber during the address.
They wore pins that read "Release the Files."
Well, meantime, a CNN investigation and review into the files have uncovered more than 90 -- nine, zero -- of some 325 FBI interview records
appear to be missing from the DOJ's website.
These missing records include three interviews related to a woman who accused Jeffrey Epstein and president Trump of sexually assaulting her
decades ago. The president has consistently denied any wrongdoing. But it's clear that the Epstein fallout isn't going away.
Let's bring back my panel, Mike Dubke and Robby Mook, who were with me before the break.
Mike, again, none of this means any legal wrongdoing on Trump's part.
But optically, I wonder how damaging is it these files have turned out to be missing, giving, you know, understandably growing accusations of a
department of a -- of a Justice Department coverup at this point.
DUBKE: Well, that's the problem. It's never the crime, it's always the coverup. That's the old adage in Washington, D.C. And this has been just a
very strange journey with these files.
We've got, you know, for years, the Democrats had the opportunity in the Biden administration to release this information. They didn't. Their
interest was only piqued when the Trump administration, frankly, after promising to release files and not doing that, created a crisis of its own
-- of its own making.
And now Democrats are leading the charge. And I think those buttons last night are -- I mean, the hypocrisy is just screaming off of each one of
those white buttons. But it is a problem. And you cannot -- if you're going to promise to release everything, you need to put it out there and let the
chips fall where they may.
We've seen what has happened in the U.K. in terms of fallout. I think there's probably some additional both Republican and Democratic fallout
that's happening or will happen with the Epstein files.
But we're now in this period of time where everyone's looking for what they didn't put out, rather than having a, you know, a overall conversation and
looking at the -- at the materials and getting a better understanding.
So again, it is a crisis of their own making. And for an administration that's done so well in flooding the zone and making, you know, moving on
from crisis, this crisis or that, this is a -- this is a strange place we're in. But you know, historically typical.
ANDERSON: I just want to follow up on something you said because I perhaps misunderstood what you said. You were calling out the hypocrisy of victims
wearing those pins.
DUBKE: No, not victims --
(CROSSTALK)
DUBKE: -- the Democrat House members, the hypocrisy of the Democrats caring about this issue now, when they had for four years the opportunity
to put these files out. These are files that have sat with DOJ for many, many years. And that that is my issue, not with the victims at all.
ANDERSON: Understood.
Robby, I would be remiss if I didn't ask you about your former boss, Hillary Clinton's, expected testimony before the House Oversight Committee,
of course, tomorrow, related to Epstein.
From what you know about her, how will she be preparing to go into that testimony?
MOOK: Well, first of all, I think it's worth underscoring, this whole call to release more about Epstein began with Donald Trump and the right wing
media ecosystem. And to Mike's point, they're now in a jam because it's clear they did redact information about Trump in those files.
Look, both Bill and Hillary Clinton, I know as much as everyone else, which is they've said publicly they will come in for the deposition. They want it
to be public. They want it to be live.
And what the Republicans on the committee have said is they want the door closed and they want to choose what they release, which is obviously --
because, you know, they want to make the Clintons look bad. This is an exercise in trying to shine the flashlight in one direction and divert
attention away from Donald Trump's potential role in this.
And the fact that it does look like there is some coverup going on. But you know, we just don't know.
[10:25:00]
So I, you know, I think the Republicans are going to are going to try to use this as a distraction. But again, the problem is not only are they the
ones holding back the files but they're also the ones refusing to let the Clintons testify in public for the whole -- you know, they're refusing to
let the Clintons release all of their testimony.
So there's -- you know, speaking of hypocrisy, it's just -- it goes -- at every step here there's just a real lack of credibility.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: -- and again, none of this means that any legal wrongdoing on Trump's part, we've got to make that clear.
Go on, Robby, very briefly.
MOOK: Yes.
DUBKE: Sorry. I was -- I was just going to say Robby knows that the Clintons exhausted every legal measure not to testify. So while I
appreciate -- I appreciate the sentiment of what he's saying, I -- we need to be clear that Clintons are not coming to Washington, D.C., to talk about
this issue willingly or voluntarily.
MOOK: Well, and Trump, Trump and his wife, you know, would be welcome to testify in Congress as well.
ANDERSON: Have they been asked to?
I don't think they have.
MOOK: I mean it would only make sense. I, you know, Trump's in lots of photos with Epstein. He's refused to explain his role. And look, this is
not credible what's going on.
If they want to bring in everyone, they should bring in everyone. And they're not doing that. They're obstructing and distracting to protect the
president. And they are not releasing all the files.
ANDERSON: The position of Robby Mook and Mike Dubke here on CNN.
You've been with CONNECT THE WORLD.
Thank you, chaps.
MOOK: Thanks.
ANDERSON: Still to come, president Trump lashes out at Iran again. Hear what Tehran thinks about the way it was portrayed in the State of the Union
address. More on that is after this.
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ANDERSON (voice-over): Welcome back. You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD with me, Becky Anderson, from our Middle East programming headquarters here
in Abu Dhabi. And these are your headlines.
U.S. President Donald Trump delivered the longest-ever State of the Union address on Tuesday. He spent much of it defending the strength of the U.S.
economy, even as poll after poll does show that prices are rising.
Rising prices are a top concern for American voters. He touted tax cuts and the booming stock market, reverting, though, to calling the affordability
crisis a Democratic hoax.
Well, the president also took aim at the Democrats framing immigration as front and center to the 2026 midterms.
[10:30:04]
He put political opponents on the spot when he goaded them to applaud as he paid tribute to what he calls "angel moms," mothers whose children were
harmed by undocumented immigrants.
President Trump also targeted Iran in Tuesday's address, condemning what he called its "sinister nuclear ambitions." And he said Tehran has developed
missiles that can threaten Europe and is working on others that would be able to reach the United States while accusing the regime and its proxies
of spreading terrorism.
ANDERSON: Well, this comes as the U.S. continues a big buildup of military assets in the Middle East and ahead of more indirect nuclear talks with
Iran on Thursday. Here is more from the president. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They want to make a deal but we haven't heard those secret words: We will never have a nuclear weapon.
My preference -- my preference is to solve this problem through diplomacy. But one thing is certain, I will never allow the world's number one sponsor
of terror, which they are by far, to have a nuclear weapon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, in response, Tehran said president Trump repeated, quote, "big lies" in his speech and had carried out a misinformation campaign.
Well, for more let's bring in the Middle East scholar, Mohammad Ali Shabani. He's the editor of Amwaj.media platform, focusing on Iran, Iraq
and the Arabian Peninsula, well sourced.
And I'm keen for your analysis on how Trump's address is being received in Iran.
What are you hearing from your sources?
MOHAMMAD ALI SHABANI, EDITOR, AMWAJ.MEDIA: So, Becky, the Iranian negotiating team, which is due to meet with Witkoff, the special envoy of
Trump, and also Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, in Geneva tomorrow.
They're mid-flight right now. They have with them a delegation of officials who focus on economic issues, political and legal issues as well, meaning
that they're looking for a deal.
And listening to the speech last night, I think what was kind of missing there was there was a stronger threatening component. Some analysts were
even expecting Trump to declare war or even attack during his speech. And that obviously didn't take place.
What did stood out was basically him talking about those, quote, "secret words," that Iran doesn't want any nuclear weapons, which incidentally, was
exactly what Iranian foreign minister tweeted a few hours before his speech.
So it seems like there's alignment between the two sides on having focused on the nuclear issue as the number one topic to resolve in the talks in
Geneva tomorrow.
ANDERSON: So what would that deal look like, do you think at this point, are we any clearer?
And were the goal capitulation, this latest proposal, as far as I can tell, is evidently not that.
SHABANI: So in the previous round of talks in Geneva, about a week ago, they agreed on what's called the guiding principles. Based on the
understanding I have of those principles, Iran has essentially agreed to produce nuclear fuel only when needed or as needed.
What does this actually mean in practice?
In practice, it means that they can do enrichment, uranium enrichment, on an ad hoc basis rather than on a continuous basis.
This means that, right now in Iran, the number one need they have for uranium enrichment essentially is for a 60-year-old research reactor,
incidentally, provided by the United States, which runs on 20 percent enriched fuel.
They can take the existing stockpile of 60 percent, blend it down to 20 percent, make fuel out of that.
Another essential principle out of these half-dozen guiding principles from the previous round of negotiations is that Iran has agreed not to
accumulate nuclear materials. This is really big. It means that they don't -- they won't have a stockpile.
Now the question is, how are they going to achieve this?
They're going to ship out some of the existing stockpile?
Are they going to blend it down to a grade where -- in which it cannot be used in any kind of harmful way?
I think that's the key question that they're going to discuss.
ANDERSON: Mohammad, news just in to CNN. A source telling my colleague, Nic Robertson, that Hezbollah will not intervene if the U.S. launches a,
quote, "limited strike." There has been some speculation about whether that might happen, should we see a limited strike.
Still unclear as to whether we're going to see a strike at all at this point. But I wonder, it gives me the opportunity to talk about the region,
basically.
And I wonder, how is this region bracing for next steps?
[10:35:00]
And particularly were there to be a conflict, I mean, given this massive buildup of U.S. military assets, this region is keenly aware and on a hair
trigger at this point for what happens next.
What do you -- what do you -- what's your sense at this point?
What are you hearing?
SHABANI: So on the specific reference to the Iran-Israel dynamic and Hezbollah in that mix, Iran and Israel have, over the past couple of
months, had a channel through Russia. And that channel has been led by the Iranian national security adviser. And essentially both sides have been
saying we will not initiate an attack.
So Hezbollah's announcement, I think, is connected to that and specifically to the Iranian national security advisor's trip to the UAE yesterday, last
night. That's with reference to Hezbollah.
When you look at the region more broadly, I think it's safe to argue that no one in the region, excluding Israel, wants war. They're not -- the Arab
states are not interested in a war.
Having said that, having said that, they're also very cautious about not creating a situation whereby they feel that Iran has been emboldened by
Trump being unwilling to confront Iran.
So I think that they're looking for a middle way there, between making sure that Iran is somehow cut to size but also isn't bombed, in -- which would
basically trigger their own bombing as well, most likely, by Iran.
So I think the dynamic is way more complex than I think most people, most observers are (INAUDIBLE).
ANDERSON: Yes. No, and you make a really, really important point. There is -- I genuinely believe -- and I'm told by good sources around this region -
- there is an awful lot going on. We see a lot of that optically through statements about calls between various stakeholders around this region.
You refer to a trip that you flagged of Ali Larijani to the UAE yesterday, which, as I understand it, you're now standing up as well. And there is an
awful lot going on. This is highly nuanced and complex, whether or not the U.S. administration under Donald Trump gets that.
One assumes they're involved in this as well. Good to have you, sir. Thank you very much indeed.
Well, on another key regional story, president Trump briefly touted the ceasefire in Gaza during that address last night, while noting that
fighting is still continuing, quote, "at a low level."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The war in Gaza, which proceeds at a very low level. It's just about there. I want to thank Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner for your help.
Under the ceasefire I negotiated, every single hostage, both living and dead, has been returned home.
Can you believe that?
Nobody thought it was possible. Nobody thought that was possible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, it's important to note that there are major outstanding questions about Gaza's future that have not been solved by the president's
board of peace. The key sticking point being how to disarm Hamas so that any progress can begin on rebuilding Gaza.
And meantime, in the enclave, Palestinians are observing Ramadan, mostly living in tents amid the rubble. Yesterday, many woke up to flooding after
overnight rainfall. Here's what we are hearing from Palestinians about life on the ground right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): We are living in suffering. Our lives feel over. Life has no meaning anymore. It has no meaning. Look at
us.
Why is this happening to us?
Why does this have to happen to us?
Sewage water mixed with rainwater floods over us. We're human beings. We have dignity. We have dignity.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We are sleeping on the ground and under the sky. We are sitting, preparing on the roof of the destroyed
house. Our family is in a difficult situation now. We are lighting the fire, cooking on the fire. The situation is very, very difficult for us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I lost my father during an airstrike during this war. I never thought I would be an orphan and sit on
the table with orphans. I'm so sad because I am here and I don't have a father to protect me. I lost my backbone and everything in my life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: We are back after this quick break. Stay with us.
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ANDERSON: Artificial intelligence migration to the battlefield has triggered a massive red line between AI firm Anthropic and the U.S.
Pentagon.
Anthropic just announced that it is loosening its "core safety principle," as it describes it. The company says that is in response to competition but
it follows Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth's blunt ultimatum to the AI giant: peel back safeguards on its AI model by Friday or risk losing a
$200 million Pentagon contract.
Anthropic CEO Dario Amodei has drawn two distinct red lines, AI controlled weapons and mass domestic surveillance, arguing the technology simply isn't
reliable or regulated enough to assume those risks.
This is a really important story. Michael Horowitz is the former U.S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Force Development and Emerging
Capabilities.
And said, quote, "The growing gap between international dialogue on military AI, which tends to emphasize risks and potential constraints on
its use and the accelerating efforts of militaries worldwide to integrate AI, should be concerning to all nations."
And Michael joins us now live. It's really good to have you. I just want you to have a listen to Dario Amodei, the CEO of Anthropic, explain why he
didn't want military use. Let's just have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DARIO AMODEI, CEO, ANTHROPIC: The constitutional protections in our military structures depend on the idea that there are humans, who would, we
hope, disobey illegal orders.
With fully autonomous weapons, we don't necessarily have those protections.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: It's not clear that this change to its core principles is related to pressure from the Pentagon. But I just wonder what message this
change makes or suggests to you.
Can you just help us sift through this?
MICHAEL HOROWITZ, FORMER U.S. DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE FOR FORCE DEVELOPMENT AND EMERGING CAPABILITIES: Absolutely and thanks for
having me.
I think that the change in Anthropic safety policy to me reflects a growing confidence in their technology in some ways.
if you compare where Anthropic was a couple of years ago, when they were thinking about first getting involved in the Pentagon, to where Anthropic
is now, you see growing interest in engaging more deeply with the national security community, with the Pentagon.
Because Anthropic believes that their technology is essential for American national security. That's why they were the first company in the door,
frankly, when it came to operating in a classified environment of the various AI giants.
And I think these changing -- the changing safety guidelines in some ways are a reflection of Anthropic's understanding of the way that AI technology
is changing.
[10:45:00]
Rather than that specifically being a result of the ongoing debate with the Pentagon.
ANDERSON: Yes. That's fascinating. So you don't see this as Anthropic caving ahead of this Friday -- this Friday deadline. Look, none of this is
hypothetical. We've seen the deadly impact of AI weaponry in wars.
Most recently Palantir's AI models helped the Israel Defense Forces strike targets in Gaza, resulting in a high number of Palestinian casualties.
Do you believe today's AI systems reliably distinguish between a hostile target and a civilian?
HOROWITZ: That's a great question. And it's, in some ways, the absolute hardest thing that you could ask an algorithm or an AI system to do.
If you -- if you think about a continuum of all the various things that you might have AI do in a military, where, on the one hand, it's doing back
office tasks, human resources or logistics in ways that are similar to what we would see in the civilian world.
And then you have, as an intermediate step, something like -- if like processing intelligence information in data, in trying to understand what's
happening on the battlefield.
And then you look at the far end and at the -- at the pointy end of the spear actually, AI on the battlefield itself, in some ways, the more -- the
more the use case involves processing large amounts of data that are relatively clean, the easier it's going to be for today's AI tools.
Like what you just suggested, trying to identify whether somebody, an individual is a lawful combatant is, frankly, the hardest possible thing to
do on the battlefield. And it's interesting in this context that you mentioned, you mentioned Palantir.
And that the -- what seemed to trigger this incident between Anthropic and the Pentagon was a call from Anthropic to Palantir about the Maduro
operation, given that it was -- it was Palantir software, essentially, that was more running the show behind the scenes with Anthropic as one of many
plugins into that system.
ANDERSON: Understood. Look, I just want to close with the direction of travel for Anthropic, which has described itself as the AI company with a
soul. It's a company founded by OpenAI exiles, ostensibly worried about the dangers of AI.
Should these changes they've announced today worry us?
HOROWITZ: If what you want is safe and reliable AI, I do not think that the changes today should worry us. They might -- they might sound
concerning in some ways on the surface.
But I think they reflect more advances in technology and Anthropic's confidence that their technology is increasingly safe and reliable across a
number of use cases.
Is that how it will pan out over time?
And we're not sure. That's the -- that's the thing that people are really worried about, given the massive consequences that we see with uses of AI,
not just in the military context but in the economy and in society as well.
The -- and, again, I would say Anthropic has shown a real willingness to engage with the national security community. And so with my former Pentagon
hat on, I hope that Anthropic and the Pentagon can come to some kind of agreement that gives the American military access to Anthropic technology
in a responsible way.
ANDERSON: Michael, it's tremendous having you on. Your insight and analysis so important to us as we continue to cover this story. We'll have
you back, sir. Thank you very much indeed.
And folks, we are going to take a very short break. After that, I am going to get international reaction to president Trump's State of the Union
address last night. Stay with us
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[10:50:00]
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ANDERSON: An historic speech by Donald Trump last night, at least so far as how long it was, 107 minutes. European allies will have watched closely.
Let's get a sense from our correspondents as to how European allies in the first instance responded. Let's bring up Melissa Bell, who is in Paris --
Melissa.
MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think the consensus really, Becky, from European, looking into this very long State
of the Union, was essentially that it was for a domestic audience.
This was, of course, an election year. President Trump speaking to his domestic audience. But I think the one part of it that Europeans were
keeping a very close ear out for was what he had to say on tariffs.
The fact that the president doubled down on his tariffs, the fact that he continued to criticize, of course, the Supreme Court decision but also the
fact of announcing that they will one place -- one day replace taxation, that is that is the point, I think, that Europeans were really paying
attention to.
Because, Becky, of what they are preparing here in Europe with regards to their response. At this stage unclear whether it will be a response of
retaliation or an attempt to renegotiate a new trade deal.
There is a great deal of anger here in Europe as a result of the fact that the trade deal that they fought so hard to get last summer appears to have
been swept aside by this latest round of unilateral and universal announcement of that flat rate tariff.
Now the European Parliament has, for its part, so far stopped its process of ratification of the deal that had stood so far and that was due to be
ratified this week.
And the European Union is now going to be looking at coming up with a common position that we understand it will have in time for the German
chancellor's visit to Washington in March.
And for the time being, there are a lot of voices in the European Union that are calling for retaliatory measures, rather than for further deal
making, Becky
ANDERSON: Good to have you, Melissa, thank you.
We just looked at how president Trump largely sidestepped a host of sensitive foreign policy issues in Europe. He's struck a more triumphalist
note when it came to Venezuela.
It's nearly two months since U.S. forces raided Caracas and removed the president, Nicolas Maduro. Trump now touting American access to Venezuela's
oil as a strategic victory.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: American oil production is up by more than 600,000 barrels a day and we just received from our new friend and partner Venezuela, more than
80 million barrels of oil.
American natural gas production is at an all-time high because I kept my promise to drill, baby, drill.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, CNN's Mary Trini joining us now live from Caracas.
How is Trump's speech being received there?
MARY TRINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Becky, many Venezuelans were following closely the Donald Trump's speech, considering this is a
significant relevance in these days in Venezuela because most of the comments made by the president since January have translated into actions
inside of Venezuelan soil.
It is the first time since many years that U.S. president's refers to Venezuela as a friend and partner. And this is significant because, since
2019, the relations were severed by Venezuela and the United States.
And the attack is took place recently, just in January. And now they are talking about restarting a new phase for Venezuela, especially focusing on
the oil production.
We need to remember that the extra heavy oil, crude oil that Venezuela has, well, is being sent to the United States. And some of the refineries in the
United States are tailor-made to translate that heavy crude oil into products inside of, that serves the U.S. communities.
[10:55:05]
So this is significant for them. It's a three-phase step plan that Donald Trump is talking about. But not only in economy he mentioned Venezuela;
also in politics. He said that jails are being closed by the interim authority, that he is working with them closely in order to release
political prisoners.
There have been many political prisoners out of the country and one of them is Enrique Marquez, which was a Venezuelan former presidential candidate.
Becky.
ANDERSON: Good to have you. Thank you very much indeed.
And folks, you have been watching CONNECT THE WORLD as we've been considering the response both in the U.S. and around the world to his
mostly domestically focused State of the Union speech last night, as in this region we are broadcasting to you from our Middle East programming
headquarters here in Abu Dhabi.
We continue to closely follow both the diplomacy on Iran and the potential for strikes on that country, given the enormous U.S. military buildup here
in this region. Stay with CNN as we continue to follow all of your news from around the world.
From my team, that's it for this evening. "ONE WORLD" is up next.
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