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Connect the World
Andy Burnham Appears Likely to Succeed Starmer as UK's PM; High- level U.S.-Iran Talks Conclude, Technical Work to Continue; Far-right Candidate De La Espriella Wins Preliminary Vote Count; IMF Expects UK Economy to Grow 0.8 Percent in 2026; Mo Salah Leads Egypt to First-ever World Cup Win. Aired 9-9:45a ET
Aired June 22, 2026 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST, CONNECT THE WORLD: Well, hello. It is 05:00 p.m. in Abu Dhabi from our Middle East programming headquarters. I'm Becky
Anderson. You're watching "Connect the World". This hour negotiators agreed on a road map to an Iran deal within 60 days, after comments from U.S.
President Donald Trump nearly ended the talks.
MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Max Foster in London, where, after months of speculation, Keir Starmer has resigned as Prime Minister of the
UK. It's quite the political shake-up. It is 02:00 p.m. here in Downing Street, and in many ways this was unsurprising.
In many ways it was a bombshell. Keir Starmer is stepping down as a British Prime Minister, head of the Labour Party. I'm here in Downing Street, where
his announcement came just hours ago. And it followed intense pressure from lawmakers within his own party for him to resign after months of political
turmoil.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEIR STARMER, OUTGOING BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: The question my party is asking now is whether I am best placed to lead us into the next general
election. I have heard the answer of my parliamentary party to that question, and I accept that answer with good grace.
Every decision I have taken has been about putting the country I love first. That is why I will resign as leader of the Labour Party.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Well, from turmoil to transition, Britain is now on call for its sixth leader in seven years. It's worth noting less than two years ago,
Keir Starmer entered the door behind me with a landslide victory, but he lost that support as quickly it feels. CNN's Clare Sebastian takes a look
back.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Keir Starmer promised to restore integrity to British politics.
STARMER: The fight for trust is the battle that defines our age.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): And yet the moment he swept into Downing Street with one of the biggest mandates in modern British history would mark the
peak of his popularity.
STARMER: We have to take the tough decision to stabilize our economy.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): Progress on domestic reforms widely seen as slow and fraught with U-turns. On the global stage, he seemed on steadier
ground, securing three major trade deals, including with the U.S., playing a leading role in rallying support for Ukraine, and standing his ground
over the U.S.-Israeli war with Iran.
STARMER: I will never let this country be dragged into a war that is not in our interests, never.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): But one decision would come to haunt him, the appointment of Peter Mandelson as ambassador to Washington, only to fire
him nine months later. A veteran, yet controversial Labour figure, Starmer hoped Mandelson would build bridges with the Trump Administration.
There were existing warnings about his ties to convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, though it was not known then how deep that relationship
ran. In February, Mandelson was arrested on suspicion of misconduct in public office, a charge he denies, though he has said publicly he regrets
his friendship with Epstein, and apologized to Epstein's victims, and he wasn't the only one apologizing.
STARMER: I am sorry. Sorry for what was done to you, sorry that so many people with power failed you, sorry for having believed Mandelson's lies
and appointed him.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): In May, local and regional elections revealing the extent of Starmer's fall from that 2024 landslide and the fragility of the
trust he had promised to restore pressure from within his own party eventually leading to this.
STARMER: Every decision I have taken has been about putting the country I love first. That is why I will resign as leader of the Labour Party.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Clare Sebastian is with me now. In the end, it happened pretty rapidly.
SEBASTIAN: Yeah.
FOSTER: But there's quite a build up to this, but we need to talk, I think, right now about Andy Burnham, because what's even more extraordinary is we
know who's going to take over from him. I know it's not precisely there, but in the next half hour, he's going to be signed in as an MP, which is
extraordinary when you consider that he's not even an MP yet.
[09:05:00]
SEBASTIAN: Yeah, and I think look, we don't have anyone else who's put their hat in the ring yet. So, I think we can assume at this point that it
might happen pretty quickly from now as well. Everything, as you say, has been building up, and now things are accelerating.
But look, Andy Burnham was an MP for many years. He worked his way up through the cabinet, he was his highest job was as Minister for Health. He
served under multiple different Labour administrations, but he spent the last decade as mayor of Greater Manchester.
And I think the interesting thing about how he's made it back into parliament, is that he's had to operate with this tension, he had to
campaign in this by-election almost as a dissident, almost as an outsider to try and get people's vote there, claiming that he's not this Westminster
type, that he's sort of a local guy who cares about local issues.
All the while, of course, the massive elephant in the room being that the sole reason that, that by-election, that special election, was triggered
was to get him back into parliament. So, I think now is the time when he's going to have to really formulate his positions on key issues, because he's
moved around --
FOSTER: -- which we know nothing about.
SEBASTIAN: We don't know much. Yeah.
FOSTER: We know how he manages the North of England.
SEBASTIAN: That's right.
FOSTER: We know nothing about foreign policy. We know nothing about even health policy.
SEBASTIAN: Yeah.
FOSTER: All the key issues, defense, which is the big one right now.
SEBASTIAN: Right. And I think that, in particular, will show the difficulties of translating his campaign promises in Maker Field in that
by-election into governance.
FOSTER: Yes.
SEBASTIAN: Right, he's promising. He stood up there. We were there at Ashton Town Football Club.
FOSTER: Yeah.
SEBASTIAN: On Friday, when he stood up there and said, we want to make life more affordable for people, we want to just make things a bit easier, give
you a bit of breathing space, but how are you supposed to do that when you also have to pile money into defense?
FOSTER: Yeah.
SEBASTIAN: Starmer just lost his defense minister because he wasn't spending enough on defense.
FOSTER: -- have you ever covered an election where the winning candidate was campaigning against his own party? This idea, he was constantly talking
about the establishment here in London, ignoring other parts of the UK, right? So, who's campaigning against his own party, the establishment,
which he's very much part of.
As you said, he was all -- he was in Westminster for decades, wasn't he?
SEBASTIAN: Yeah, but really long time he's been a politician all his life, and I think that was what made it somewhat surreal. We even saw at his
headquarters cabinet ministers arriving.
FOSTER: Yeah.
SEBASTIAN: Steve Reed, the Housing Secretary, who's a known ally of Keir Starmer, he was there when we were there on Wednesday. They all sort of had
a pass to go up there and campaign, because no one, of course, wanted the alternative.
FOSTER: Yeah.
SEBASTIAN: No one wanted Reform, you know. Nigel Farage's populist right- wing party to come in and win against Labour's most popular politician. But equally, there was always this sort of nagging sense that this is the
beginning stages of an ouster of the prime minister.
FOSTER: Yeah. But we could effectively have Andy, if nothing gets in his way.
SEBASTIAN: Yeah.
FOSTER: And it looks like there isn't anything in his way. This will be a coronation. Starmer was talking earlier about July. I mean, it's out of his
hands, really, isn't it?
SEBASTIAN: Yeah.
FOSTER: It's the Labour Party that decides how this goes. He could be in power, can be in a matter of weeks.
SEBASTIAN: Look, if no one else stands, then there's nothing standing in his way, but again, that's out of Keir Starmer's hands, right? It depends
if anyone else throws their hat in the ring. As of now, the Former Health Secretary, Wes Streeting, who was seen as sort of the most prepared
candidate to go for this, has thrown himself in behind Andy Burnham.
FOSTER: Yeah -- They all want jobs.
SEBASTIAN: Right. But this is the thing that they, you know, this is about political survival for these people.
FOSTER: Yes.
SEBASTIAN: And they all want to hang on to a Labour government, don't they?
FOSTER: Yeah.
SEBASTIAN: They haven't had one in 14 years --
FOSTER: -- Starmer, people forget, don't they? So, he had this landslide victory, which was up there with Tony Blair, but he got there much more
quickly. Tony Blair took a couple of, you know, parliaments to get to that level of support. He came in here ready to transform, and then ever since
then it seems like his support collapsed. Is it because he just didn't have a plan?
SEBASTIAN: So, there are a number of things that have led to that. I think there were a number of decisions. There were some U-turns on things like
you know, pensioners, winter fuel allowances, which really upset people who are expecting the sort of left-wing Labour government to come in and
improve benefits.
There was the appointment of Peter Mandelson as ambassador to Washington, who then had to be sacked nine months later when it emerged just how close
he had been to Jeffrey Epstein. So, there were a number of things. But if you look really closely at that so-called landslide, this is a sort of
quirk of the British voting system, right?
He made it to almost two thirds of the available seats with about a third of the popular vote. So, this was called at the time a loveless landslide,
and reform, meanwhile, made it to only eight seats with 14 percent --
FOSTER: Yeah, but that's the game, isn't it?
SEBASTIAN: Yeah.
FOSTER: -- reality --
SEBASTIAN: -- Labour --
FOSTER: -- knows that. Clare, thank you very much. Becky, as I say, Andy Burnham isn't even an MP yet. He could be made an MP in the next hour or
so, it's extraordinary how quickly this is going, really.
ANDERSON: Yeah, and the question is, how long will he, last? If indeed he does become Britain's next prime minister, leader of the Labour Party,
which of course is in government, isn't it just?
FOSTER: Yeah.
ANDERSON: And we will continue to report on this story. It's a good one. Thank you, Max. U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance giving a positive assessment
of high-level U.S.-Iran peace talks in Switzerland. Mediators, of course, from Pakistan and Qatar earlier citing quote encouraging progress at those
quotes those talks.
[09:10:00]
Key issues include the Strait of Hormuz and the continued fighting in Lebanon. A few hours ago, Vance gave an update on those negotiations,
including the status of Iran's nuclear program. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The Iranians have agreed to invite IAEA inspectors back into their country. That is a
major milestone for the American people, and the first step in permanently denuclearizing or permanently ending a nuclear weapons program in Iran, and
that's exactly what we wanted to do, that's exactly what we asked to happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: OK, well, we've got Nic Robertson connecting is from Switzerland. Kevin Liptak is at the White House. Nic, I want to start with you. You've
been there all weekend, some interesting hours. We've just heard from J.D. Vance. What do you make of what he said in that press conference.
And perhaps more importantly, you know, he told us what he wants us to know about these talks. Importantly, though, what do we not know at this point?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: A very big picture, this is already bumpy. There was an MOU signed last week. The talks were
supposed to be Friday. The Iranians wouldn't come because of what was happening in Lebanon. Then they decided to come at short notice.
Then President Trump disrupted things by some very sort of undiplomatic language. When J.D. Vance was using diplomatic language, the Iranians
threatened to walk out. We certainly understood that up there the talks had stalled out. The mediators went through the night, and then they came out
with a statement, and J.D. Vance gave us his sort of understanding and view on that statement.
Obviously, the United States has contributed to and been part of. And it sorts of, if there were whatever bumps there were towards the end of last
week, we're now at a point where they seem to have been straightened out. Iran came into the talks here because they wanted a ceasefire in Lebanon.
They wanted the United States to make sure that that would happen, and now there is a deconfliction cell. And J.D. Vance said there's a way now to
rather than escalate to have some kind of communications that will avoid escalation. The Strait of Hormuz, the Iranians have closed that, they said
before coming into these talks.
Now it appears that they've actually agreed to reopen it, that there are lines of communication now that are made possible to avoid escalations in
the Strait of Hormuz. The point J.D. Vance made there about the IAEA, I found very interesting, because actually Clause 8 in the Memorandum of
Understanding actually stated that the IAEA were going to be part of the inspection process for whatever sort of nuclear agreement and details are
agreed between the United States and Iran.
So that had already been signed by President Trump, by the Iranian President, but I think that shows you that that's very, very important to
the U.S. audience, that they understand what the United States is getting here. And the other take away that again was a big part of the sell to the
domestic audience, where they're critical of what the United States, what President Trump has got, is over money.
Iran's Foreign Minister said they'd made money or they were going to get some sanctions lifted and assets unfrozen. And J.D. Vance said, look, that
all goes through Qatar, Qatar gets a say so, we get a say so. So, if there is a green light, that money doesn't go into Iran's pocket to spend on its
proxies.
It goes into buying products from the American agricultural market that then go, of course, the food, then goes to the Iranian people, corn or soy
or whatever it's going to be, goes to the Iranian people. That was the way he explained it out. Good for the Iranians, good for U.S. citizens.
It's very important, and he's doing his best here to show that to the American audience. I believe that this deal is working, and it's a good one
for the U.S. audience, of course. Buried in all of that are sort of some of the granular details that mitigate against success, but they've got a
pathway for it.
They've got a mechanism for it, and that's where we stand today.
ANDERSON: Kevin, let me bring you in, because several major issues do remain unclear, not least whether these concessions claimed by Iran on
sanctions relief, and as Nic was saying, there, the unfreezing of assets. Here is specifically what J.D. Vance said about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANCE: If there are any frozen Iranian assets that are unfrozen, then we have approval over that process. The Qataris have approval over that
process, and then the money would actually go to buy American soy, American corn, and American wheat for the benefit of the Iranian people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Kevin, didn't the Trump Administration argue for years against deals that provided financial concessions to Iran?
[09:15:00]
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yeah, and the president himself was arguing against it in the weeks and days leading up to the
moment he signed this memorandum of understanding. Now, Vance's argument here is that Iran won't be able to buy anything without approval from the
U.S. and from Qatar.
And he specifically says that it will have to be these American agricultural products. He says this whole system was devised by Jared
Kushner, but in reality, it does resemble a set up that the Biden Administration put in place when they unfroze a number of Iranian assets
that were held in South Korea when the Iranians released American hostages and the U.S. Treasury had to approve every purchase that they made with
those assets.
Clearly Vance here is trying to allay the concerns of critics of this deal, who say that the U.S. and its allies in the Gulf are just giving Iranian
unfettered access to money that it will use to support its terrorist proxies or to revamp its missile systems. And I don't know that his
arguments here are necessarily going to allay all of those concerns, because if you're giving the Iranians money for humanitarian purposes, in
theory, would free up money already inside Iran for some of those more malign motives.
And so, it's evident how he's trying to frame this for an American audience, but I don't know that the critics of it are necessarily going to
let up on their criticisms.
ANDERSON: Got it. Stand by, Kevin. I just want to get back to Nic very briefly. Nic, you're on a big story. This is a big global story. There is
another big story in the UK today. You are -- you've been imbued in British politics, in reporting on British politics for years. So, what do you make
of Keir Starmer's resignation today?
ROBERTSON: Yeah, an inevitability about it. Here was a leader who was seen when he was coming in as no drama Starmer, stable. You had had the Tory
government, the Conservatives, whom he beat, ripped through. I think it was four prime ministers in three years, and he was viewed as bringing in
stability and the ability to make some big changes because of his massive mandate.
But then that didn't happen because of missteps, and this sort of idea of stability then became one of somebody with actually no charisma and able to
sell to the British public all the positive things Labour was doing. Andy Burnham, on the other hand, is sort of the antithesis of that.
He is somebody who has a lot of charm and charisma about him, and certainly that went to providing the big support and the big turnout and the big vote
that he got in the Makers Field by-election special election just a few days ago. So now we're looking at this perspective picture of pretty soon
Andy Burnham, most likely becoming British Prime Minister.
A lot of his time is going to be consumed with international affairs, not least dealing with the outfall of Iran and the U.S. in the Gulf, the Strait
of Hormuz being open or not open, because that's going to rip into his economic agenda at home, which is vital, so he's going to have big
international issues pressing down on him.
It's not going to be an easy ride, and it's going to have to get a whole new skill set to deal with those issues.
ANDERSON: Good to have you, Nic. Thank you very much indeed, Kevin. Let's just get back finally to these talks, this mediation efforts, of course, it
was the Qataris and Pakistan there on the ground in Switzerland, alongside the U.S. and Iran. There are a couple of pieces of video and images that I
want our viewers just to have a look at, because Kevin, at the end of the day, it does feel as if this weekend was as much about optics as it was
about substance.
This image has gone viral. It is J.D. Vance alongside the Qatar Prime Minister with Jared Kushner sort of looming over his shoulder as they seem
to be sort of typing out something on a laptop. There's a video doing the rounds of the Pakistan Prime Minister, trying, it seems, at least to get
the Iranians to agree on a handshake with J.D. Vance.
The Pakistan Prime Minister, at least in the image or the video, seems to have been rebuffed by the Iranians. Just what is your take on these sorts
of viral images during the rounds, and how are they landing back home?
LIPTAK: I'm most struck at the contrast between the very serious diplomacy that I think we understand Vance was conducting overnight in Lucerne, and
what was happening up at Camp David, which was President Trump sort of firing off these social media posts at will, that did even, according to
Vance, throw something of a wrench in these discussions.
[09:20:00]
And so, you see Vance there very adamantly typing into this computer some aspects of the deal we don't know specifically what. And you see these
bits, this back and forth about whether the two would shake hands, certainly very cognizant of the way that that will be digested by domestic
audiences, both in Iran and the United States.
And then you have the president, who doesn't seem all that concerned about throwing all of this for a loop when he fires off messages or answers the
phone when a reporter is calling. Now, Vance says that this doesn't upend things in any way, but when you only have 60 days, or actually you only
have 55 days now to work out some of these very tricky issues, you don't necessarily have time for pauses in the talks to try and get the two sides
back together because of something that Trump said.
So, I think it's very interesting, sort of how they have been handling it there in Switzerland, and how the commander in chief has been handling it
back here in the United States.
ANDERSON: Mr. Liptak is at the White House, or certainly outside the White House today for you there in Washington. Kevin, thank you, and we will be
back after this quick break. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Well, in Colombia's presidential runoff, far-right candidate Abelardo de la Espriella has won the preliminary count by razor-thin
margin, according to the country's national registry. His opponent, Ivan Cepeda, a progressive and close ally of the outgoing President Gustavo
Petro, has acknowledged the result.
But he is calling on voters to wait for the final binding count, which could take several days. CNN Contributor Stefano Pozzebon joining us now in
the spirit of the World Cup. He is wearing a Colombian shirt there. Some already referring to Abelardo de la Espriella as the president elect.
Final election count, though, could take several more days. What are you hearing on the ground there?
STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, Becky. Well, I think that both camps -- what we're hearing this morning is that both camps are agreeing on
a mutual understanding of cushion. The electoral authorities have begun as of 15 minutes. It started at 08:00 a.m. local time here in Colombia.
They started the recount of the official count what we were talking about yesterday, and we went through the night yesterday pretty much until
midnight with a pre count. So, it's the preliminary data that are being shared by the electoral seat that gives de la Espriella an advantage.
He is ahead by about 250 votes. However, those are not the official final results. And while Ivan Cepeda, the official and left-wing candidate from
the government, has called for a recount, de la Espriella has asked for his followers to stay to keep waiting for the official results, confident that
they will win and this is what he said to his opponent late last night. Take a listen.
[09:25:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABELARDO DE LA ESPRIELLA, LEADS COLOMBIAN PRESIDENTIAL VOTE COUNT: Petro and Cepeda, by disregarding the verdict of the ballot boxes, you are not
challenging the tiger, you are challenging millions of citizens who freely gave victory to Jose Manuel and me at the polls in the democratic process.
The campaign ended today. Petro and Cepeda refrained from unleashing social unrest.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
POZZEBON: The tiger is how de la Espriella refers to himself as part of his rhetorical campaign to call himself a tiger to signify the ferocity with
which he wants to tackle the problems of the state. However, tigers and animals apart, de la Espriella is saying that Petro and his opponent and
his ally Ivan Cepeda should recognize the results as soon as they come in.
Like you said, Becky, this could take between two or three days in the first round of the election that was contested on May 31st. We heard the
official results about the Wednesday the following day. So, we're here for a quick for a tense couple of days as the country waits for the official
results have been published by the authorities.
However, it does seem that de la Espriella will be, could be the president, the next president of Colombia. He's clearly ahead of the vote. Cepeda has
said that he wants to appeal results in 33,000 electoral seats, and we still need to understand whether that would be enough to overturn these
250,000-vote advantage that de la Espriella seems to have as of this Monday morning.
It never happened, by the way, Becky, that an election, a runoff in Colombian history, was so tight, and that still more than 12 hours after
the closing of the polls, the election remains too close to call. So, we'll keep monitoring and bring it up to you as soon as we hear more from the
electoral authorities, Becky.
ANDERSON: Good to have you, sir. Thank you. And you are watching "Connect the World". I'm Becky Anderson here in Abu Dhabi. This is our Middle East
programming headquarters. And there is more news just ahead. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Welcome back, I'm Becky Anderson in Abu Dhabi. You are watching "Connect the World". These your headlines this hour. British Prime Minister
Keir Starmer says he is stepping down following mounting pressure from within his own Labour Party.
Andy Burnham, the Outgoing Mayor of Greater Manchester, seen as his likely successor as Labour Leader and hence British Prime Minister. U.S. Vice
President J.D. Vance reporting good progress at high-level U.S.-Iran peace talks in Switzerland.
[09:30:00]
He says, Iran has agreed to allow nuclear inspectors back into the country. Technical teams will remain in Switzerland to address that and other key
issues in the country's Memorandum of Understanding. Well of ringing the opening bell on Wall Street today. Investment management firm VanEck.
That is the start of the trading day and the trading week. Let's see how stocks are getting on. Investors, of course, always have, you know, a keen
eye on what is going on, or certainly have done over the last four or five months in this U.S.-Iran conflict. We have had, you know, some reports of
progress certainly in weekend mediation talks.
The Dow Jones out of the gate today with a quarter percentage point rise, and that is the picture on the other two main markets. So, I think it is
fair to say investors certainly seem to have a sort of mixed feeling about what is going on at present. Those in the UK will also be keeping a keen
eye on what is going on after the announcement this morning of the resignation of Keir Starmer as the British Prime Minister.
It is a busy news day today. Let's return to that top story. Max standing by in London for you, Max.
FOSTER: Yeah, well, things are moving so quickly. There is at least some clarity of what's going to happen, so the markets actually haven't been
that bad here, Becky, resignation, Keir Starmer as British Prime Minister just a few hours ago here, comes as a front runner to replace him, as you
were saying, Andy Burnham is due to be sworn in as a member of parliament.
He isn't one yet. In an emotional speech, Starmer described how he had made the Labour Party electable once again and had set out to make a fairer
Britain.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STARMER: The hard work of change was with a singular purpose, not power for power's sake, but to change Britain for the better, to build a fairer
country with dignity and respect, where everyone is seen, everyone is valued, wealth and opportunity for all, not just the privileged crew.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: UK Finance Minister, also in Downing Street, and number 11, has paid tribute to Keir Starmer, her boss, saying the economy is better
protected from global instability, thanks to his leadership. Rachel Reeves said there is a lot to be proud of and more to do. Giles Wilkes was a
Special Adviser on Economic Policy to the Former Prime Minister Theresa May.
He's now a Senior Fellow at the Institute for Government. He joins us now. Thank you so much for joining us. We should probably say Rachel Reeves and
Keir Starmer were sort of joined at the hit, really, weren't they? So, she won't be lasting any longer either. Is that the assumption?
GILES WILKES, SENIOR FELLOW AT THE INSTITUTE FOR GOVERNMENT: I don't think there's many people placing money on her, hanging around, partly because
she's regarded as being slightly associated with Keir Starmer's bigger mistakes, you know, not being able to absolutely change the economic
settlement in the way that he appeared to promise when he came in.
But the -- you know, the change message that Andy Burnham has given from Maker Field, and that coming down to London would ring hollow if he kept
the sort of same basic fiscal policy in place all the way through.
FOSTER: Yeah, let's just talk about this sort of merry-go-round of prime ministers that this country seems to have. I think we've worked out that,
you know, if we get a new prime minister in July, that will be 7 prime ministers in 10 years.
WILKES: Yeah.
FOSTER: If we go back 10 years, there is obviously one big event that we are talking about. Are the two linked?
WILKES: Absolutely. I mean, Brexit is the reason we got prime ministers in an unstable position. We got prime ministers we would not normally have
contemplated, in particular, I'd say Boris Johnson, which led inevitably to Liz Truss, which inevitably led to the end of Liz Truss.
So, yeah, I would say at least half of the reason we're now regarded as a bit of a laughing stock in not being able to keep a prime minister for more
than a few years is because Britain voted to leave the EU. That put governments in a really difficult position, they fought within themselves.
They found themselves unable to convince the electorate they had a plan working. And this just led to, you know, the sort of turmoil we've had for
most of that period.
FOSTER: And they're out of money, aren't they? They can't really do what they want to do. Many of the prime ministers these days, Andy Burnham is
the likely new replacement. Is it going to be any easier for him when you consider that list of prime ministers dealing with this aftermath of
Brexit?
WILKES: Not from the point of view of money at all. No, Max. I mean, it's not just Brexit, of course, but you would argue that.
[09:35:00]
I mean, most economists would argue the economy is about 5 percent looks smaller, as a result of Brexit, which might mean 70 or 80 billion pounds
worth of tax revenues that they don't otherwise have to enjoy, but we should also remember we had a COVID pandemic that cost this country maybe
400 billion pounds of support that needs to be paid back.
We still got the after effects of the financial crisis, the Ukraine crisis that put up gas prices so much, and cost billions and billions in energy
bills. And now the sort of the Iran one, which has knocked us off track, just as it looked like the economy was growing again.
So, all of those add up together to the treasury having literally nothing extra to hand out to a new prime minister. And that's going to define his
premiership, even if there's plenty of other things he can do that don't require money, money would be really useful, and there isn't any.
FOSTER: There used to be a day, didn't there, when you know there was a leadership crisis, and the markets would go wonky in the UK. That doesn't
happen anymore -- keeps happening. But just explain why the markets are so sanguine about Burnham, when they literally know nothing about his foreign
policy, his economic policy, any sort of national policy, right now, because he's all his politics has been focused on one region of Northern
England, isn't that?
WILKES: Well, I mean, that's a really good question. I think part of the answer is that this, while it seems like a really shocking event, a prime
minister with a massive majority being turfed out within a couple of years of winning it. It's been in the market for a long time.
I would say the writing was on the wall for Keir Starmer from about a year ago, when he failed to push through a welfare reform that showed he didn't
have full command or confidence of his own MPs. As a result, they've been thinking for a long while, who have we got coming down the road.
Then when the Peter Mandelson saga reached its crescendo a few months ago, it became a real, a real matter of when, not if this year he would be
challenged. So, the markets have had a long time to absorb the fact of there being a change in premiership. And the other reason I guess is that
although it's obviously really matters what the prime minister is like.
Most Labour or Conservative prime ministers respect what the markets think they really need to do. What really matters is whether the objective
conditions are getting better. And while Andy Burnham is regarded as quite not quite as trustworthy, perhaps, as the Starmer -- combination.
He's come in with the Iran war looking like it's coming towards the temporary end, oil prices falling a fair bit, borrowing costs falling a
bit, inflation figures coming in better than expected. So, there's a chance he might be a lucky prime minister.
FOSTER: Just a word, I know you obviously work very closely with Theresa May. I think you know, from just from my observations, there's some
similarity in the characters here, you know, Starmer came in, Theresa May came in when there was a search, really wasn't there for stability, dare I
say some boringness, some policy away from the personality.
WILKES: Yeah.
FOSTER: And everyone was very struck this morning when Starmer cracked a bit and showed some personality when he got emotional towards the end. You
also had that, didn't you, with Theresa May?
WILKES: Yeah.
FOSTER: A lot of people after Theresa May were saying, she does that when she was in office, show some personality. Actually, I'm going to, I'm not
going to let you answer that quite yet, because Andy Burnham is in parliament, he's about to be sworn in. So, we're just going to listen into
this process, and I can explain what's happening.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDY BURNHAM, BRITISH LABOUR MP: I swear by Almighty God that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to His Majesty King Charles, his heirs
and successors according to law. So, help me God.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The northern side.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Naughty boy --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We now come to questions to the Secretary of State for education, Jim Dickson.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: OK, so that was actually a very historic moment. I know it was very brief, but he made his oath of allegiance to the king. He can't become an
MP without doing that. He is now a member of parliament.
[09:40:00]
Now, only members of parliament can unseat a prime minister, you have to be a member of parliament to become prime minister. Just think about what the
process events here. We've had a prime minister forced out by someone who wasn't a member of Parliament, signed in as a member of Parliament
afterwards.
That is just how much support Andy Burnham has, and how it almost feels like an inevitability that he is going to become prime minister. The other
thing you got there, the sense of it, just look at these images. This is someone full of charisma, full of character. He was joking with the crowd.
They responded to him very well, very personable, Becky. I mean, you've been following him for years, of course, and I think there's just that
moment really where people want some charisma back in their leadership, but we still don't know anything about his policies.
ANDERSON: All right, Max, good to have you. We are going to take a very short break. We are going to continue to monitor what is going on there in
the UK. The rest of your global news after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Well, Mo Salah is no stranger to winning, is he? But victory had evaded him at a World Cup with Egypt, that is, until yesterday when he
scored in a three-one win over New Zealand. More on that in "World Sport" coming up after this short break. We will be back with more news and a bit
of sport after that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:45:00]
(WORLD SPORT)
END
