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The Chris Wallace Show
Democratic Presidential Candidate Kamala Harris Gives Interview to CNN During which She Attempts to Explain Her Changing Positions on Issues Such as Fracking and Decriminalizing Illegal Immigration; Trump Campaign Criticized for Filming Donald Trump's Visit to Arlington National Cemetery to Visit Gravesites of 13 U.S. Servicemembers Killed during Afghanistan Withdrawal; Special Counsel Jack Smith Files New Indictments of Donald Trump for Election Interference after Supreme Court Ruling on Presidential Immunity; Donald Trump Changes His Position on Abortion; Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg Sends Letter to Congress Claiming Biden Administration Pressured Facebook to Censor COVID Misinformation During Coronavirus Pandemic; Starbucks Promoting Pumpkin Spice Latte with Increased Price Ahead of Typical Autumn Release; "Washington Post" Writes Article on Popular Household Practice of Hording Plastic Bags. Aired 10-11a ET.
Aired August 31, 2024 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:00:41]
CHRIS WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello again, and welcome. It's time to break down the big stories with some smart people.
Today, we're asking, after all the pressure to sit for an interview, did Kamala Harris do enough to address her flip-flops on key issue?
Then moving to the middle, we'll break down Donald Trump's flips on abortion and IVF, which many pro-lifers don't seem to have a problem with.
And later, pricy pumpkin potable, a fall's favorite coffee drink is outpacing inflation.
The panel is here and ready to go. So sit back, relax, and let's talk about it.
Up first, Kamala Harris on the campaign trail this Labor Day weekend after her first interview since becoming the Democratic nominee. And while she cleared the hurdle without any major fumbles, some critics say it wasn't enough.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, (D) VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think people are ready to turn the page on that.
WALLACE: Kamala Harris billing herself as the candidate of change and answering questions for the first time in this campaign about some of her reversals on progressive policy, like a ban on fracking. HARRIS: My values have not changed. What I have seen is that we can,
we can grow, and we can increase a thriving clean energy economy without banning fracking.
WALLACE: She gave a similar answer defending her flip on illegal immigration from 2019.
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: You raised your hand when asked whether or not the border should be decriminalized. Do you still believe that?
HARRIS: I believe there should be consequence. We have laws. My value around what we need to do to secure our border, that value has not changed.
WALLACE: Donald Trump quickly weighed in, saying the interview confirmed Harris's far-left values and her status as a flip-flopper.
DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She probably goes back to her room and gets sick to her stomach when she says what she has to say, because she's a Marxist.
WALLACE: But Harris making clear she doesn't want to be drawn into a food fight with Trump over race or gender.
BASH: He suggested that you happened to turn black recently for political purposes.
HARRIS: Same old tired playbook. Next question, please.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Here with me today, podcaster, journalist, and author Kara Swisher, conservative pollster and "New York Times" opinion writer Kristen Soltis Anderson, "New York Times" journalist and host of "The Interview" podcast Lulu Garcia-Navarro, and "National Review" editor in chief Rich Lowry. Welcome everyone, especially Rich, who is a first-timer.
RICH LOWRY, EDITOR IN CHIEF, "NATIONAL REVIEW": Thank you. I'll try not to disappoint.
WALLACE: We'll have a good time.
Kara, did Harris do what she needed to do in the interview?
KARA SWISHER, PODCAST HOST, "PIVOT" AND "ON": She's got to do a lot of interviews, I think. I think it was fine. There were no fumbles, and she answered relatively well. She seemed calm. She was quite calm. She foisted off a bunch of questions that were about the past, and I thought she did that pretty well. I don't think it did any damage, no harm, no foul kind of interview.
WALLACE: Did it do any good?
SWISHER: It didn't need to necessarily. She needs to do a lot of them. I think she should do local ones. I think she should do it all over the place. But yes, because it didn't do her bad, that's why.
WALLACE: Kristen, do you agree with Kara that she did fine?
KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, FOUNDING PARTNER, ECHELON INSIGHTS: "Fine" is probably the right word. It's clear that she is really committing to this pivot to the center. The whole time I kept thinking about that kerfuffle in 2012 when Mitt Romney was going from the primary to the general, and his campaign said, oh, it's like an Etch A Sketch. We're just going to flip it over, shake it, and it'll erase everything. It's like she's trying to erase the last time she ran in a primary and say no, no, I'm different. And it may work.
The two things, though, that she said in this interview that I can easily imagine Mar-a-Lago high command finding useful. One was she said, we needed to recover as an economy and we've done that. A lot of Americans don't think we've recovered as an economy. She used that as a justification for why her positioned have changed.
The second thing she said repeatedly was my values have not changed. And given that she has had some positions in the past that were pretty progressive, I imagine that could be viewed as a gift for Republicans.
WALLACE: Well, I want to pick up on that, because shortly after CNN released the first clip from the interview, the Trump campaign put together this ad of some of Harris is greatest hits from a 2019 campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[10:05:01]
KAMALA HARRIS, (D) VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My values match.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Reduce red meat specifically?
HARRIS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Boston Marathon bomber, they should be able to vote?
HARRIS: I think we should have that conversation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Abolish ICE.
HARRIS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you ban offshore drilling?
HARRIS: Yes, and I'm in favor of banning fracking.
I am prepared to pass a Green New Deal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Rich, does "my values have not changed" address her problem with flip-flops from she was running as a lefty in 2019, worried about Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren?
LOWRY: No. I mean, it could be part of a coercion explanation of these things. But in the interview, she said that line which clearly had been fed to her, but didn't really connect to anything. She didn't explain any of these changes of point of view. And I'm not against people changing their minds. George McGovern changed his mind on regulations. But it's because he started a small business and he realized how burdensome it is. So there was something going on there besides just changing on eight or ten things instantly in course of a couple of weeks, mostly still just explained via staff rather than with the candidate's own words.
So this was a replacement level interview. It was not terrible, but it was not impressive. And if I were the campaign, my takeaway would be yes, do more interviews. But local, five-minute pull-aside interviews. Do not put her in a setting where she might be significantly and in a sustained way challenge for 20 minutes, because I think she'd wilt under that pressure.
WALLACE: Lulu, well, first of all, what do you think of what Rich just ahead?
LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, "NEW YORK TIMES" JOURNALIST AND PODCAST HOST: Yes.
WALLACE: You agree?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: I think she did OK. She didn't -- she seemed nervous, especially at the beginning. There had been so much pressure put on this interview. She waited way too long to do one. So it was like the Super Bowl. It didn't need to be. And so she did no harm, I agree with Kara. But I also agree with rich that I don't think she did anyone any favors, and there's still a lot of questions that she needs to answer.
WALLACE: But let me ask you about one of those questions. If you switch from ban on fracking to no ban, if you switch from decriminalized immigration to laws have consequences and need to be enforced, how does that fit under my values haven't changed?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: I think -- exactly. I think the thing with my values hasn't changed is that she's trying the capitalize on the thing that actually voters say they like about her, which they see her as someone with leadership. They see her as someone who has integrity, things that Donald Trump scores very poorly on. So she's trying to capitalize on that. Trust me, believe me, I am a good person, I am a change candidate, right?
But she doesn't really explain what it is that she believes in. And so I'm not so concerned about fracking. I know that that's a big deal for Pennsylvania. I think where it's going to become an issue is on the border, because decriminalizing people crossing the border illegally, there are a lot of reasons to say that that's fine because of things that are too lengthy to explain now. But it doesn't really play well to the general public in an election where the immigration really, really matters to people. SWISHER: I don't, I don't even mind people changing on two things. Of
the people on this panel, you've interviewed her, correct? Have you interviewed her?
WALLACE: I have never met Kamala Harris.
SWISHER: I've interviewed her four or five times. She's not going to wilt.
LOWRY: How do you get an interview? Just wondering.
(LAUGHTER)
SWISHER: No, I know. But she's not a wilter. She's actually quite good in interviews. And she had some bad ones, but she's like everybody else, she falls down.
The second thing is, oddly enough, my family does fracking in Pennsylvania. And I asked them last night, or had been in the business because the coal business, and they are Trump voters, but they were satisfied with that answer. There like, OK, as long as she doesn't do it.
WALLACE: I just wonder about this all-purpose answered, "my values haven't changed", when on a lot of issues, her values or her policies have changed dramatically. If she was running then on the left and now she's running -- I want to bring up another issue. Harris also defended the administration's record and talked about how proud she is to have served as vice president. Here's what Biden said about her at the Democratic convention.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've had one of the most extraordinary four years of progress ever.
When I say we, I mean Harris and me.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Now, Harris and Biden will be together in Pittsburgh on Monday, Labor Day. Kristen, is it a mistake for Harris to campaign with Joe Biden?
ANDERSON: I think it is. I think that by in the interview when she was asked about having worked for him, she was pretty gracious. And I think that's fine. I think having respect for the man who chose you to be his running mate is fine. But at a certain point, his job approval is very low. Voters do not like what they have seen over the last three-and-a-half years. She's aware of that. Dana Bash pushed her in the interview on it and she's kind of tried to say, well, don't really blame me for the last three-and-a-half years. If you're out there campaigning with Joe Biden, that really is continuing to tie yourself to an administration that voters are simply saying, please, please, please not four more years.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: I disagree. I disagree. I think Joe Biden still has a lot of pull in certain places, places where she might need his help. I mean, he is still popular among certain cadres of white working-class voters. That is his background.
[10:10:04]
And so I actually don't think that it is a bad thing to be seen with the sitting president of the United States. At the end of the day, she cannot hide from it, so she might as well embrace it.
LOWRY: They're doing a Pittsburgh, and he had some residual strength towards the end and the blue wall states. But I still think this is a bad idea. We'll know a lot about who is going to win this election based on who wins the argument over who represents change. And if she is changed, if she is something different than Trump and Biden and she's turning the page, that's huge for her, and Trump has to push back against that.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: But change from what? I mean, the thing about this is not just who is the change candidate, but what are you changing from? Do you want to change from division? Do you want to change from chaos? That is the argument that Kamala Harris is making. And so therefore, she is the change -- but if you want to change from Biden and high then he is embracing that. So it's a question of who wins that argument.
LOWRY: A change from an administration that a lot of people think has failed and has an approval rating that's 40 percent, then Trump wins. So that's, that's the argument.
WALLACE: All right, that is the argument and we have a debate in a few days, I think 10 days. We'll see who wins it.
On the third anniversary of the disastrous Afghanistan withdrawal, Donald Trump turned a memorial into a war of words with the Army. Did he ruin a political opportunity?
Then secrets revealed, Mark Zuckerberg's COVID confession that's now sparked a serious debate over censorship.
And later, paper or plastic. The grocery bag habit a lot of people can't seem to kick.
So what do you say, paper and plastic when you're in the grocery store?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:16:20]
WALLACE: As Donald Trump struggles to regain traction in the presidential race, he is now dealing with a controversy over some of the most hallowed ground in America, as well as a new criminal indictment that tries to thread the needle of a Supreme Court ruling. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Trump did find one candidate at Justice who seemed willing to do anything to help him stay in power.
WALLACE: Damning allegations Donald Trump tried to recruit top Justice Department officials to overturn the 2020 election, allegations you won't find in the new indictment filed by Special Counsel Jack Smith.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think this is a tactical retreat of sorts.
WALLACE: Smith trying to salvage his case after the Supreme Court ruled Trump's dealings with Justice were official acts, and therefore immune from prosecution. Trump calling the revised charges election interference.
DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When you look at how they go weaponized against me for doing absolutely nothing wrong.
WALLACE: Meanwhile, Trump's dealing with fallout from his visit to Arlington National Cemetery to honor the 13 servicemembers killed during the Afghanistan withdrawal three years ago.
TRUMP: And then they took over that disaster, the leaving of Afghanistan.
WALLACE: The campaign took video of the event even after a cemetery staffer said federal law prohibits political activity at military cemeteries. In a rare rebuke, the Army issued a statement calling the incident unfortunate and defending the employee they said was abruptly pushed aside by campaign officials.
TRUMP: And they say I was campaigning. The one thing I get is plenty of publicity. I don't need that.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
WALLACE: Lulu, let's start at the top. Are the changes in the new Trump indictment a big deal?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: They are. It's a cleaner indictment, and I think there was a big question after the Supreme Court ruling whether or not Smith was going to really pursue this. And he is. And the fact of the matter is, is that they're going to try and take this to where it always should have been, which is into a court of law. So yes, I think it's a big deal. And I think it's going to answer a lot of questions that the Supreme Court left open, which are, what are the limits of immunity? That was something that they left very, very open. And this is now going to help define that.
WALLACE: Rich, what I find remarkable is that based on the Supreme Court's ruling, the accusation -- I'm not saying it's true, but the accusation that Donald Trump conspired with Justice Department officials to launch sham election theft investigations, is now off the table and is immune from prosecution. I find that remarkable. LOWRY: Yes. Well, their case, there are other ways to handle this,
right? Impeachment being the main one. But the indictment largely stands. He knocked out the things regarding the Justice Department to try to accommodate the court's ruling, probably didn't go far enough and other ways to accommodate the court's ruling. But this thing is going to have zero effect on the election. If Trump doesn't win and fire him on day one, which would happen if he does win, and this thing actually makes it to trial, it's going to be a trial in 2026. This is still a long ways off. Everything --
WALLACE: But when you see some of the things that he couldn't be charged with in this new indictment because of the Supreme Court ruling, does it give you any pause about the Supreme Court saying that he could do these things and he's protected?
LOWRY: Well, the court's -- the logic of the court's ruling is just so you don't want people prosecuted, presidents prosecuted for official acts. Barack Obama drones a U.S. citizen overseas in this official capacity --
GARCIA-NAVARRO: They left this so open. They left it absolutely so that you have no sense of what the limits are.
[10:20:03]
And so you could interpret it that the president is now a king, or you could -- or you have to define those limits.
LOWRY: How is the president a king? Are there no more elections in America?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Well, of course there are elections, but --
LOWRY: But then he's not a king.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: But there is nothing that says that he can act in any way that he wants and there is no way that he can be held accountable --
LOWRY: We have the entire system of checks and balances is intact, right? We're still a free country. And the logic of the court's decision has to do with preserving those checks and balances and honoring -- Congress can't make official acts of the president illegal, right, without overstepping its constitutional bounds. So the idea that something has never happened before, they need a president prosecuted, otherwise we're living in a monarchy or a dictatorship is absurd.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: But we're talking about something specific, though. We're not talking about some imaginary thing. We are actually talking about someone who did try and subvert the election, who did actually try to overthrow the transfer of power. This isn't just -- we're not doing thought experiments here.
LOWRY: Those are all bad things. Those are all bad things.
WALLACE: Even the Supreme Court isn't going to settle this.
I want to talk about, because there's plenty to talk about with Donald Trump this week. The Arlington controversy, the Trump and his campaign ignored a cemetery employee who tried to stop them from campaign activity in Section 60, where some of the fallen from recent wars are buried. Kirsten -- Kristen, sorry. Did Trump's Arlington behavior undercut his message about Afghanistan and the way we got out?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: I think that it did. I think that his campaign saying we were not in the wrong and we have video to prove it. But then that video has not -- has mysteriously not emerged. I think it's very interesting. I think that this is, this is just terrible. But do I think it's actually going to affect things? Just think, what was it, two weeks ago that we were talking about Trump trying to draw this weird equivalence between the Medal of Honor and the Medal of Freedom? I mean, he has sort of picked fights that people say this is going to cost him with veterans. And the community of veterans is a very politically diverse community. He has some families there that said yes, come with us to Section 60, and he has others that say, no, we think this guys a disgrace.
WALLACE: All right, but it does get worse. Trump took pictures smiling and giving a thumbs up at those gravesites in Section 60, and his campaign attacked the cemetery worker as a despicable individual who was suffering a mental health episode. Kara, all but forgotten in all of this was the 13 people, 13 soldiers who died at Abbey Gate at the airport in Kabul.
SWISHER: This was a political event for him. And then there was some scheme around Kamala Harris, too. There's always -- every time he manages to step in it, he steps in it. And he didn't just end there with that heinous behavior. My dad was in the military until he died. For me, this is so offensive, I can't even believe someone did this, and then pushed around a --
WALLACE: Yes, but how about how about Kristen's point? You find it offensive. A lot of stuff that he says is offensive. But it doesn't matter.
SWISHER: OK, great, you don't have to be offended. I think most people whose parents were in the military would be offended, but that's OK. You don't have to be. But then he like tops it by doing the other thing around Kamala Harris, tweeting something about sexual activity, comparing her to Hillary Clinton in a really grotesque way. He just one after the next after the next. It's offensive to someone somewhere. He's not adding voters. He's subtracting voters.
WALLACE: Well, let's talk about one way in which he is trying to add voters. He's trying to blunt the abortion issue, which he has admitted is a tough issue since the overturning of Roe v. Wade and the Dobbs decision, a top issue for Republicans. He posted this this week, "My administration will be great for women and their reproductive rights." And he gave some specifics.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think the six week is too short. It has to be more time. And so that's -- and I've told them that I want more weeks.
For people that are using IVF, which is fertilization, we are -- the government is going to pay for it, or we're going to get, or mandate your insurance company to pay for it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Now, we should point out that Trump's campaign announced Friday afternoon that, in fact, he is going to vote for continuing the six-week ban on abortion in Florida. He's a Florida resident.
But Lulu, it does raise the question, how much room are pro-lifers going to give Trump to move to the center to talk about IVF, to talk about reproductive rights to help win the election? And if so, why are they giving him so much room?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: I don't think that they're giving him room. I think what we saw, in fact, is that they are really mad about what he has said. But he's all over the place on this issue. I mean, I was -- I mean, it's great that the government now wants to pay for IVF and the Republican is now taking that position.
[10:25:05]
I've never heard a Republican ever want to take that position before. Maybe we'll get paid family leave, too. I mean, you know, let's have the uni-party really. We can have Kamala Harris and Donald Trump kind of go together. I mean, it's all over the place. There's no cohesion to it.
SWISHER: I believe the word she's looking for is "flip-flop."
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yes. Yes, that one.
WALLACE: Well, let me, quickly, Rich, do you believe that Trump means to do these things he's talking about, or is just saying it because November will come --
LOWRY: Yes, he means to do them because he's scared, freaked out by the polling. And it's just, it's so headlong retreat that makes no sense. Now, he said he's going to vote against amendment four, which is a sweeping pro-choice law which he suggested maybe he was going to favor with a really loose statement. So this is a party that's going to retreat on this issue.
WALLACE: Congress got a letter this week from a tech titan that sparked a big debate over what you see and don't see on social media.
Also, ahead, definitely not a cruel summer for Taylor Swift's boyfriend and his brother. We'll discuss the huge payday you can't shake off.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [10:30:52]
WALLACE: This week, Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg put himself in the middle of a political controversy. Zuckerberg sent a letter to the Republican led House Judiciary Committee accusing the Biden administration in 2021 of pressuring his company Meta to take down some content about how COVID, writing, quote, "I believe the government pressure was wrong and I regret that we were not more outspoken about it." He also brought up removal of a story about Hunter Biden's laptop, which the FBI warned might have come from Russia. Zuckerberg wrote "The reporting was not Russian disinformation, and in retrospect, we shouldn't have demoted the story." Republicans were quick to praise Zuckerberg's admissions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JIM JORDAN, (R-OH) HOUSE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE: Yes, there were censorship. Big government was pressuring big tech to censor Americans, and it was predominantly conservatives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Kara, what is Mark Zuckerberg up to here?
SWISHER: What is Mark Zuckerberg up to? Well, he's two years too late, and Mark Zuckerberg the victim is not what anybody thinks about Mark Zuckerberg. He had two years to talk about this. The Supreme Court has since ruled on this, that the government should be wary about talking to these companies but should be allowed to. And I don't think he was under any kind of pressure. He just decided not to do it, and now he's worried about House investigations. He's worried about doing another hearing in the fall. And so he's decided to give them what they wanted, which was this letter.
WALLACE: So this was politically timed, not --
SWISHER: Oh, it's totally politically, especially the part where he said he had given money to help voter registration. And of course, he was attacked for it. And then he said, even though it wasn't partisan, I'm going to not do it just in case people think it's partisan. The whole thing is political.
WALLACE: Rich, is Zuckerberg trying to cozy up to Republicans in Congress and a possibly reelected Donald Trump to go easy on him for the next four years?
LOWRY: He was under pressure by Jim Jordan's committee. This didn't come out just out of anywhere.
WALLACE: House Judiciary.
LOWRY: Yes. And it clearly seems to me like a palate cleanser. If Trump potentially wins, he's fessing up to this. He's already talked about it a little bit that this happened, and he thinks it's wrong in retrospect. He's also saying he's not doing these so-called Zuckerbucks that a lot of people on the right were very worried about. But look, this is outrageous, that the government would want to take
out of the public domain any information, including jokes. If you're an editor or someone with responsibility over what's out there and the government says to take down a joke, your answer has to be no, pound sand, not in a million years, and immediately expose the person --
SWISHER: Let me just say, Rich, according to who is not under oath, there hasn't -- so far if Jim Jordan had all this evidence.
LOWRY: You think he's making it up?
SWISHER: I absolutely do.
LOWRY: This is a fabrication, and the whole Supreme Court case, also, all the facts surfaced were made up?
SWISHER: The Supreme Court said the government --
(CROSS TALK)
WALLACE: Wait, let Kara --
SWISHER: The Supreme Courts case said the government should be able to talk to these companies. These states were trying to stop it. And the fact that matter is Trump has threatened prison for Mark Zuckerberg, prison, which is unprecedented. You don't seem to be very upset about that.
LOWRY: But you're saying on the one hand it didn't happen, but the government should be able to --
SWISHER: I don't know if it happened, but I don't know if Mark Zuckerberg is telling the truth.
LOWRY: There's a factual record.
SWISHER: Yes, there is. Why doesn't Jim Jordan show us the testimony that was actually under oath.
LOWRY: OK, I want to move forward in this, because Zuckerberg does use the word -- he doesn't say that they censored Facebook. He said that they -- their pressure amounted to it, but it was a decision made by Facebook. Kristen, do you view the government talking and even pressuring Zuckerberg and Facebook and social media platforms on whether it's COVID or the Hunter laptop, is that government censorship?
ANDERSON: These CEOs do not like getting hauled in front of Congress. They have very large companies that are potentially subject to enormous amounts of regulation that could completely blow up their business models. So yes, it may not be the case that anybody in the government sent Mark Zuckerberg a note and said, nice little Facebook you got there, would be a shame if something happened to it. But the reality is that these tech companies went from being the darling of Washington 10 years ago to being everybody big enemy and punching bag.
[10:35:01]
And I think now what you're seeing with Zuckerberg's letter is they just want to stay away from this as much as possible.
[10:00:00]
WALLACE: All right, here is how Surgeon General Vivek Murthy described his conversation with social media platforms back in 2021.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. VIVEK MURTHY, U.S. SURGEON GENERAL: We are still seeing a proliferation of misinformation online. And we know that health misinformation harms people's health. It costs them their lives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Lulu is that government, if you believe what Murthy is saying, is that government censorship, and is it wrong?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: I mean, no. If that is the job of the surgeon general to talk about things that are going to cost people's lives. There was an unprecedented health crisis and where people were actually putting out into the world things that were going to kill people. And so his job as the top doctor in this country is to say, actually, we need to try and control those flows of information. In the same way that if you here on CNN started spouting things that were completely untrue and were going to actually hurt people, you would have to fact check that information. And I think what people are coming to is that social media companies, they're called platforms, but they're really companies, should be held to those similar standards. It's complicated. It's complicated.
SWISHER: Murthy does not have any power. He's just a suggestion person, he just talked about parental stress. The only one threatening these social media companies with prison is Donald Trump. No one else has threatened -- they're threatened with hearings, or you shouldn't do this.
WALLACE: I want to bring up one last part of this discussion. Zuckerberg also says that he wants his platforms to stay out of the 2024 election and be as neutral as possible. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK ZUCKERBERG, CEO, FACEBOOK: I think you're going to see our services play less of a role in this election than they have in the past. And personally, I am also planning on playing a -- not playing a significant role in the election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Rich, can social media platforms be politically neutral in the middle of a campaign?
LOWRY: Yes. It's hard. Now, Zuckerberg might think it's impossible because in 16 he was blamed by the left for Trump's election because Trump's campaign used Facebook very effectively. And in 2020, the right blamed him for Biden's election because of the Zuckerbucks and all the other things. But yes, these social media platforms should have a speech neutral, free speech type standard for how they deal with their information. And there's no role of government can try to control private information flows. That is not the government role. The surgeon general can say what he believes is right and what's good information. But he doesn't get to go and try to pressure private entities to change what they have on their and their newspapers are on their websites.
WALLACE: Real quickly, Kara, can Zuckerberg, can his platform stay neutral in this camp?
SWISHER: No. And I'd like you to meet Elon Musk. So no, no. They can do whatever they want is what they can do. And he cannot stay neutral. It is almost impossible. He's got a communications platform that's enormous, the most important one in the world.
WALLACE: There's a popular practice that I'm guilty of, some say should be banned. We'll show you.
Plus, a caffeine kick in your wallet, the fall classic that's getting a summer start with a heftier price tag.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:43:02]
WALLACE: Once again, it's time to get our group's yea or nay on some big talkers. Up first, the calendar says it's still summer, but Starbucks fall favorite, the pumpkin spice latte, is already on sale. The coffee giant started selling the PSL, as it's known, earlier than ever, hoping to jolt the company's struggling sales. And they've increased the price. A cup of grandee PSL now goes for $6.50. That's up from three $3.35 some 20 years ago, far outpacing inflation and almost double the price hike for its other drinks.
Kristen, are you yea or nay on pumpkin spice-flation.
ANDERSON: I am a nay on anything pumpkin spice latte. And that is not to say that I am anti-autumn. Autumn is my favorite season. I love everything about fall vibes. And every year right after her Labor Day, I walk into Starbucks, and I think maybe this year I'll like the pumpkin spice latte. And then I buy one, and I realize it tastes like I'm drinking Potpourri, and I say no, thank you, and I go back to my iced mochas. Nay.
WALLACE: OK. Lulu, where are you on pumpkin spice lattes and how much Starbucks is charging for them?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yes. No, I'm totally with Kristen on this. This is disgusting. It's an aberration. My daughter likes it. So, you know, the thing with Starbucks is that they basically know that they have a trapped audience, and so they keep on jacking up the prices because people keep talking about it. And apparently people like it, but I think it's disgusting.
WALLACE: Next, a popular practice few of us talk about or even admit to. I'm talking about stockpiling grocery bags after you put away your food. I'll admit, in the Wallace household, we tend to hang onto bags, paper or plastic, and store them under the sink or in a closet. And it turns out we're not alone. It's so popular, "The Washington Post" wrote about this habit and urged us bag collectors to let them go. Kara, are you yea or nay on hoarding disposable bags?
[10:45:00]
SWISHER: Of course, I am. Everyone does it.
WALLACE: You're not, I am what, yea or nay?
SWISHER: Yes, I'm yea on it, because I use. I use them for cat litter, or I put recycling in them or things like that. I'm very --
WALLACE: So you don't find, end up with a bag stuff with 30 other bags.
SWISHER: No. My bag situation is so beautifully organized. It's fantastic. So I'm --
GARCIA-NAVARRO: We need to ban single-use plastic.
SWISHER: Yes, that is true.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: That's the thing. Any other thing --
WALLACE: I'm going to call you the bag lady.
SWISHER: Go right ahead.
(LAUGHTER)
WALLACE: Rich, if I were look under the sink in the Lowry household or in the closet, would I see --
LOWRY: Bags, yes. You'd see bags. Yes. I horde most everything, to my wife's great frustration and regret that it's mostly printed material, but we hang on to the bags. They come in handy. My grandmother, who grew up during the depression wouldn't throw anything away. Not just bags, but she basically tried to save used paper towels. We don't go that far, but the bags come in handy.
WALLACE: Finally, the Kelce brothers reaching new heights in their bank account. This week, the famous football brothers signed a $100 million deal with Amazon for the popular podcast, "New Heights." The show, which originally focused on sports now ranges from their lives as to pop culture. And sometimes those worlds collide, like when Travis started dating Taylor Swift. Here's the clip that started it all.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRAVIS KELCE, NFL PLAYER: If you're up on Taylor Swift concerts, there are friendship bracelets. And I received a bunch of them being there, but I wanted to give Taylor Swift one with my number on it.
JASON KELCE: Your number 87 or your phone number?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: You know, they may be worth $100 million. I want to ask our two podcasters, though. Lulu is the Kelce brothers' podcast worth $100 million?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: I'm a big fan of the Kelce brothers. I think they're great. I don't think any podcast is worth $100 million simply because you have to have and the have-nots in podcasting at the moment where people like the Kelce brothers got $100 and then there's a lot of struggling independent producers that really aren't getting those deals. And so it pains me, and I speak out for them when I say spread the wealth, my friends, spread the wealth.
SWISHER: I think it's great.
WALLACE: I was going to say, you have been a podcaster or even before it was cool.
SWISHER: Yes.
WALLACE: Is this a good deal or --
SWISHER: It's a great deal. It's a great deal for those in the top, global top 200, both of which my podcasts are. It's fantastic. My contract is up in May.
WALLACE: So you're basically saying a rising tide lifts all boats?
SWISHER: My contract is up in May. I'm thrilled with it. Fantastic.
(LAUGHTER)
SWISHER: Yes, good for me.
WALLACE: As outsiders, Kristen, what do you think, $100 million for the Kelce brothers?
ANDERSON: I don't understand the economics of this at all. But if podcast-flation is going to help my friends here, I'm all for it.
WALLACE: Pumpkin spice latte and horded bags.
The panel is back with their takes on hot stories or what will be in the news before it's news. That's right after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:52:31] WALLACE: It's time for our panels special takes on what's happening or predictions of what we should be looking out for. Kara, hit me with your best shot.
SWISHER: Related to the free speech discussion we're having just about Mark Zuckerberg, Pavel Durov of Telegram, who is sort of this mysterious owner of another service like that, it's very popular all across the world, including in Russia -- he's from Russia -- was arrested in France. A lot of free speech absolutists who really aren't free speech absolutists complained about it. But the fact matter is there's a lot of crime going on in that platform, and also child sex trafficking, all kinds of things, child pornography. And so that's where the arrests are around. So there are limits of what the so- called free speech, including breaking the law in facilitating things like child pornography.
WALLACE: Kristen, you're also focused on social media.
ANDERSON: I am. So I've talked on the show before about the importance of something like TikTok. And I even said that I was going to poll test what people thought about certain memes, like "Kamala is brat." Last week went into the field, asked people, if someone said that you were brat, would you be offended? Would you be delighted? Would you be confused? Only one out of five Americans said that they thought it would be a good thing. And then we ask people politically, what memes have you seen about Kamala Harris? Seventy-five percent of our respondents were genuinely like memes, what are you even talking about? So it's just a reminder, TikTok may be important, but it is also not real life.
WALLACE: Lulu, you want to talk politics. Best shot?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: I do. One of the things that happened at the Democratic National Convention was that they did not allow pro- Palestinian speakers onto this age. And those groups are feeling incredibly betrayed after that.
And in response, what we've seen from the Harris campaign is that they have now appointed a lawyer who is Egyptian American to go out and try and liaise with these groups. This is going to be very important because a lot of Arab Americans who really care about the Gaza issue are actually situated in swing states. So it remains to be seen whether or not that choice that they made not to include pro- Palestinian groups in the DNC is going to have blowback later. But certainly, those groups are feeling like they are on the outside of the Democratic Party, even though we've seen polling that shows that Arab Americans generally are moving toward Harris, even though they were very against Biden.
WALLACE: Rich, bring us home.
LOWRY: So J.D. Vance obviously did have a rocky introduction to national life. The cat lady comments were an anchor around his neck. And he's not necessarily the most warm and fuzzy campaigner.
[10:55:03] But he has proven a tireless, fearless, really effective spokesman for this ticket. He talks and interacts with the press every single day, does hostile interviews, and as far as I can tell, has not had one misstep.
WALLACE: Wait a minute. How about Vance this week telling Kamala Harris to go to hell for criticism about Trump's visit to Arlington, which in fact, she never made?
LOWRY: Do you think the campaign didn't want him to do that or did want to do that?
WALLACE: I would hope that they didn't want him to do that.
LOWRY: They probably wanted him to go out and be a forceful critic and an attack dog. And he's doing a really good job.
WALLACE: And when he said about Trump's lewd comment, we're just having fun.
LOWRY: Well, he's on the ticket. What is he going to do? But he was on "Meet the Press" last weekend and got about a dozen challenging questions, dealt with them all extremely adeptly. And that's what he's been doing almost every single day.
WALLACE: It's going to be a long two months.
(LAUGHTER)
WALLACE: Gang, thank you all for being here, and thank you for spending part of your day with us. We'll see you right back here next week.
