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Erin Burnett Outfront
Herman Cain's Accuser; Road to the White House; Gadhafi's Final Days
Aired November 04, 2011 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, HOST: Thanks, John. We're on the "Front Line" with the world's most notorious arms dealer, Viktor Bout. Convicted in New York this week, we talk to the woman who spent 15 years tracking him. And wouldn't you get cozy with Sarkozy? We can't resist finding out.
And the "Bottom Line" on Herman Cain, the lawyer for one of the accusers finally spoke out. Let's go OUTFRONT.
I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT on this Friday; the lawyer for Herman Cain's accuser speaks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOEL BENNETT, ATTORNEY FOR CAIN ACCUSER: She made a complaint in good faith about a series of inappropriate behaviors and unwanted advances from the CEO. She and her husband see no value in revisiting this matter now nor in discussing the matter any further, publicly or privately.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Joel Bennett, that's who it was, said his client stands by her comments while the Cain campaign continues to call the claims baseless. Jeffrey Toobin is our senior legal analyst. Gloria Borger is our chief political analyst -- great to have both of you with us.
Let me start with you, Gloria. You spoke to the National Restaurant Association today, and now that the lawyer said all right, the woman, multiple events but she doesn't want to give details, doesn't want to give her name. But now that the National Restaurant Association has allowed her to speak, does that now mean any day, any day, anytime for the next --
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: No. Yes, she could.
BURNETT: Anytime, right?
BORGER: Yes. But she's not going to. Which -- it's clear that the Restaurant Association allowed her -- released her from her pledge of confidentiality and all her lawyer wanted, all Joel Bennett wanted was to allow them to release this statement. So this woman clearly wanted to be able to say anonymously that Herman Cain is not right, that there was a basis to her claims of sexual harassment, but she was not willing to go out publicly. So honestly, I don't think this has a lot of impact because this is so non-specific, it doesn't really require a response from Herman Cain.
BURNETT: Legally, does the fact that she didn't come out with anything specific -- I mean, what does that mean?
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: Does that strengthen -- I'm kind of -- I would have thought -- well, I don't know. I've got a personal view on it.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: I think it's a very good day for Herman Cain. That's the bottom line here.
BURNETT: Yes. That's for sure. Yes.
TOOBIN: Because look, I think she made an understandable decision for her own sanity, for her own life, she didn't want to get involved, she would be trashed right and left, supported, opposed.
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: Right.
TOOBIN: But now there are no specifics. There's no name. I don't see why Herman Cain has to say anything. I think this is a basically meaningless statement that was issued by the lawyer that doesn't advance the story at all. And I think it just allows him to continue with his campaign.
BURNETT: All right. So Gloria, do you agree with that or do you now say, well, what about woman number two? We haven't heard anything bad.
BORGER: Well --
BURNETT: And apparently number three that was alleged.
BORGER: Well, you know, look, she clearly doesn't want to speak. The woman -- let's call her woman number one. She clearly doesn't want to speak and it kind of makes you wonder why she issued this statement at all, quite frankly. Because as Jeff says, it doesn't really advance the ball. The question that I have here for -- and I think politically is that going forward people know who these women are. Journalists do. At some point the names are going to get out I mean in the world in which we live. And the question I have is at some point is some woman going to come forward with specific, on-the- record detailed claims which Herman Cain will have to answer and then the story would bubble up again? So we just don't know.
BURNETT: That's what --
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: That's what seems to me -- I think Gloria has a fair point. In this world, right, friends of friends know. There are at least three women --
TOOBIN: Sure. But --
BURNETT: We're going to find out, aren't we?
TOOBIN: Well, maybe. In fact, I said on Monday when this whole thing broke, oh, this is definitely going to come out. You know, I think I might be wrong. I mean I think this is where it may end.
(CROSSTALK)
TOOBIN: You know these women have not come forward for their own reasons, and it's perfectly appropriate. And I just think the story goes away at this point unless someone says something more.
BURNETT: So Gloria, what accounts, then, for the -- well, Cain appears to be moving on. And in the polls -- and I'm curious your view on the polls, right, because he's jumped in the polls. He's still ahead of Romney.
BORGER: Sure.
BURNETT: Do you think that's in response to this, that this is a defiant public or is there a lag?
BORGER: Well, it's interesting because since this story broke last Sunday Herman Cain has raised $1.6 million. And let me put that in a little bit of perspective. In the entire last quarter he raised $2.8 million. And you see these poll numbers here. Herman Cain is doing just fine in the polls. In talking to Republicans, and specifically when our colleague John King is out in Iowa talking to Republicans there, Republicans there are not paying a lot of attention to these charges because they haven't seen specific credible evidence, they've just seen allegations. So --
TOOBIN: And -- and -- I'm sorry --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Go ahead. Go ahead.
TOOBIN: They also hate the news media. The Republican Party primary voters hate us. They think we're a bunch of liberals. And so they have positioned Cain, they released a video today, as you know he's the guy who's being attacked by the liberal media. So they're trying to turn it into a positive. Now I don't know if it's going to be a positive. But that certainly I think helps neutralize it, as does this sort of non-event today.
BURNETT: I still think, Gloria -- I mean, I have no idea what will happen or what will or won't come out --
BORGER: Right.
BURNETT: -- but that there's been all this focus, quote unquote, "on woman number one". But number two and three now the news media, whatever you want to say about the news media, they're going to go looking for these women and finding these women --
BORGER: Sure. BURNETT: -- and maybe one of them will say hey you know what, I'm going to come out and get specific. And then it does change.
BORGER: Or other women who believe there was kind of a pattern of inappropriate behavior or -- you know, we just don't know. But generally, you can understand as Jeffrey says why these women don't want to come out. It's uncomfortable. It happened 12 years ago. They want to put it behind them. In this particular case this woman has been married and wants to just move on with her life and doesn't want to get involved in a presidential campaign. And by the way, she works for the federal government. People could construe it as political if she did, we don't know. Democrat, Republican, whatever.
BURNETT: Right.
BORGER: So -- but eventually, I just keep thinking that we live in a world in which eventually every story unravel unravels. And so eventually there may be more information --
TOOBIN: But we also live like one day at a time in our world. And you know for today it's not much -- you know if he's nominated --
BURNETT: Something else might occur.
TOOBIN: Right, well you know --
BURNETT: Something might happen to somebody else, and all of a sudden all the flies go on that carcass --
TOOBIN: The circus moves on --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I know --
TOOBIN: But also you know if he's the nominee in October, let's deal with that then. You know, there's a long way between now and you know whether he's the Republican nominee. I think for now the story is definitely dying down.
BURNETT: Do we have David?
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: David Gergen is with us and I have to say happy anniversary to David Gergen, who was kind enough to be here, so happy anniversary to David -- David thank you for squeezing us in. What's your take on this? Is it done? Are we moving on or no?
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I think we're probably moving on but let's not think that he's escaped any injury here. There's definitely a cloud over this nomination and while the polls and the money are coming in now I can guarantee you two things. One I think his standing against Barack Obama on a head to head will go down. And secondly I think his chances of getting a Republican nomination are about zero.
BURNETT: Really? Zero? GERGEN: About zero.
BURNETT: Jeff Toobin's a little surprised --
(CROSSTALK)
TOOBIN: Zero, you know, he's been in the -- you know he's been in the 20's in the polls for quite a while now. I mean, look, I don't think he's going to be the nominee, but I think zero is a little tough, David --
GERGEN: I said about zero, but I'll give it three percent, Jeff.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
TOOBIN: My cross examination --
BORGER: But David --
(CROSSTALK)
GERGEN: It's a lot --
(CROSSTALK)
GERGEN: It's a heck of a lot closer to zero than it is to 50.
BORGER: But David, wouldn't you have said that before these allegations came up on Sunday?
GERGEN: Yes, I do and I think that this has had --
BORGER: OK.
GERGEN: -- it's going to damage him in terms of the national outlook. Yes, his basis may stay strong --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sure.
GERGEN: -- but he's been a problematic candidate all along. And these are not unserious charges. And you know if you're a woman today and you're working, wouldn't you remember what happened to the woman in the Dominique Strauss-Kahn case and how she got smeared and what happened to Anita Hill way back when? I think a lot of people are going to be sympathetic on that basis.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
BORGER: So you know it's funny I was talking to a conservative Republican woman today and asking that same question. And you know what she said to me? She said, well, the Democrats had Bill Clinton and they say Bill Clinton was a great president, what Bill Clinton was accused of was a lot worse.
GERGEN: Bill Clinton was a serious political actor who was the governor of a state for a long time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
BORGER: I agree with you, but I'm telling you what she was saying to me.
(CROSSTALK)
TOOBIN: And Republican voters they -- my experience is they think Clarence Thomas was the victim and Anita Hill was the perpetrator. So I don't think that analogy -- I mean you saw in the video they were very much trying to make that analogy, that you know Thomas and Cain were victimized by you know unscrupulous women in a bad media.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
TOOBIN: In the primary I think that argument works pretty well.
GERGEN: But my argument is look I think he may still up in the Republican polls for a while, but I think in the national polls as a serious political candidate for the presidency of the United States, the most important political job in the world, and a man who has had no political experience, I think his numbers are going to go down and I think ultimately over time that's going to reduce his chances of getting the nomination.
BURNETT: All right. Well, I'm going to hit pause on that. Thank you all very much for the impassioned conversation. And by the way, this whole point of sexual harassment, what really goes on, does anyone watching remember the boom-boom-room? That is the only appropriate way I can refer to a room that was used for sex back at Salomon Brothers. So we're going to talk about that story with the person who wrote the book coming up later, whether sexual harassment is still a big issue.
OUTFRONT next though we're still a year away from the presidential election. Herman Cain's rival Mitt Romney, yes, what is the thing -- why couldn't Mitt Romney get a bounce this week? Wait until you see the ovation and then Gadhafi's final hours. We found out what happened. And a verdict could come any moment in the Conrad Murray trial. His pastor comes OUTFRONT tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: The number tonight, 363. That's how many millions of dollars the U.S. military spent on weight loss surgeries over the past decade. That's right. The average cost of the surgeries were nearly $18,000. The number includes gastric bypass and gastric banding procedures and yes, that is for the military.
This Sunday will be exactly one year until the next presidential election, and a new poll released today shows a near tie between Republican rivals Herman Cain and Mitt Romney. Now, as we were just talking about, with everything that's gone on with Herman Cain, you may be surprised that it's so close. But as you were hearing Gloria and David and Jeff talk about a lot of people have flocked to Herman Cain, a feeling that he has been victimized through the sexual harassment claims.
But other people say why hasn't Romney been able to capitalize on this? All right, so let's find out. Bill Burton joins us now. He is former deputy press secretary for President Obama in the 2008 campaign, now runs a super PAC for him. Scott Stanzel is deputy press secretary for George W. Bush during the 2004 campaign. OK. Thanks to both of you.
And Scott, let me start with you as the Republican here. I mean, today Herman Cain gets a huge standing ovation at the "Defending the American Dream" summit. Mitt Romney gets a lukewarm reception. And the latest polls show he is tied statistically, so why is it that Mitt Romney has not capitalized on this situation?
SCOTT STANZEL, FORMER DEPUTY PRESS SEC. FOR GEORGE W. BUSH: Well, I think it's less about Mitt Romney than it is about -- Jeff was right. Republican primary voters deeply distrust the media. No offense to you and your colleagues at CNN. But Republican voters are deeply suspicious about how this story came about, how it came about through unnamed sources, and the amount of attention it's gained this week. So I think to a certain extent it's sort of frozen the field.
I don't think that Republican voters are necessarily rushing to Herman Cain. But they are sticking with him until they find out all the facts. And that's going to take some time. So Mitt Romney is doing what he's doing. He's laying out concrete plans to address the budget deficit and jobs in this country. And that's what he should be doing. But I think for the time being Republican primary voters are just going to be taking a look to see how this Cain situation shakes out.
BURNETT: All right. Bill Burton, then why are you fighting against Mitt Romney? You had an ad today, you had an ad yesterday. It seems like you've picked the guy you think is going to be in the general election.
BILL BURTON, FORMER DEPUTY PRESS SEC. FOR PRES. OBAMA: Well, I think by all accounts it looks like Mitt Romney is going to be the person who's the Republican nominee -- it might not be him. And if you look at the advertisements that we put out this week, a lot of those things could apply to any one of the Republicans who are running. But if you look at what has happened to poor Mitt Romney, this man has been running for president for six years.
He's spent $100 million. And he's actually behind where he was at this time in 2007 in Iowa. He's flat-lined in support and the fact that Herman Cain, who before all this had nonsensical proposals to begin with, is now -- has now admitted that he has paid -- that women have been paid as a result of sexual harassment charges against him, Mitt Romney is still losing to him. I mean, I don't know what it is that the dogs won't eat the dog food but Mitt Romney's got some real problems in the Republican Party and he's having real trouble getting out of them.
BURNETT: And so Scott, what's your take on that? I mean are the Republicans making a mistake with the field that they have?
STANZEL: Not at all -- not at all. This is a very interesting race in that it is pretty wide open. We've got 60 days until the Iowa caucuses. And I would just caution Bill in terms of talking about poll numbers at this point. I hesitate to guess what Senator Barack Obama's numbers were at this point in 2007. So a lot can change --
BURTON: Nineteen.
STANZEL: -- prior to the Iowa caucuses. And as you see, a lot could change over the course of this race. So I think Mitt Romney is out there doing what he needs to be doing. I think he's in a solid position. He's delineating himself from the other campaigns. And he's also, more importantly, delineating himself from President Obama's failed leadership where we see unemployment numbers persistently high over nine percent. He's talked about how he would deal with the budget today. So I think he's putting together a credible plan that Republican primary voters could come around to.
BURNETT: Now I -- next week I'm going to talk about this because I'm frustrated with Mitt Romney, 500 billion in cuts, they're not going to cut it, but that's a separate issue. Bill Burton, let me ask you one other thing, though. Who do you think is a better candidate for Barack Obama to run against, Herman Cain or Mitt Romney? Do you have a preference?
BURTON: Well, you know what? Back in 1980, Democrats were hoping against hope that Ronald Reagan would be the nominee. And we all saw how that turned out for Democrats that time around. I think that it's tough for Democrats to get in the business of picking who the nominee's going to be. It looks like it's going to be Mitt Romney. But whoever it is on the Republican side the contrast between the president's vision for this economy and the Republican vision, it couldn't be clearer.
BURNETT: All right. Well, gentlemen, thanks very much to both of you. By the way, just for the record --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
BURNETT: -- my frustration is Mitt Romney's cuts are less than the super committee's minimum cuts and that was a little upsetting. OK. We now know how Moammar Gadhafi spent the final hours of his life. You certainly remember this video taken right as the former Libyan leader was captured by rebel fighters. He was found hiding in this drain pipe, covered with graffiti. Then we saw those images many of us thought we'd never see. Gadhafi lifeless, shot in the head. What took place in the frantic hours before he was found? Those details are now coming to light because of a CNN interview with one of the former leader's bodyguards. I spoke with CNN's Jomana Karadsheh in Tripoli earlier today and I said when she talked to the bodyguard what did she learn about Gadhafi's final moments?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, according to Mansour Daal (ph), one of the top security officials of the Gadhafi regime, they spent their time on the run in that besieged city of Sirte, Gadhafi's hometown. They would not stay in one place for more than three to four days. And they were moving around these abandoned houses around the city, living on very little food they could find in these houses. And towards the end Daal (ph) told us that the situation went from bad to worse that their life had turned by about 180 degrees. They had no power, no water, and they lost communication with the outside world. He told us that Gadhafi spent most of his time reading books that he had stacked in suitcases and writing notes that Daal (ph) did not get to read.
BURNETT: So those notes perhaps somewhere, which is fascinating. Were you able to find out from the bodyguard how Gadhafi died and what he was feeling in those last moments? I mean, when he ended up coming out of that drain pipe.
KARADSHEH: Well, what Daal (ph) told us was that Gadhafi was insisting that he did not want to leave Sirte for two months. Since he got there in August before the fall of Tripoli he refused to leave the city. But as the siege intensified it seems that Gadhafi felt the end was near and a few hours before he was killed he decided that he wanted to leave the city to his birthplace, a village that's pretty close to Sirte and so -- because according to Daal (ph), Gadhafi was getting more worried and erratic.
And he thinks he was getting afraid at that point. So they decided to leave in this convoy that he described as a very chaotic plan. They had absolutely no plan to fight, no plan to flee, and they just got in these cars delayed in leaving because of an undisciplined civilian force that had dropped in numbers, according to Daal (ph). As soon as they left the city, it was daylight at that point, and they were struck by NATO jets, later surrounded by the rebels, who opened fire on them, and Daal (ph) says that he was hit by shrapnel in his back and lost consciousness, so he doesn't know what happened to Gadhafi and how he died.
BURNETT: So he doesn't know -- this whole question of whether it was an execution or crossfire, he really has no sense of an answer to that?
KARADSHEH: Well, Erin, I have to point out that our interview was conducted in the presence of his interrogators and throughout the interview he praised the revolution and the will of the people. So it sounds a bit convenient or too convenient here for him to have lost consciousness or say he did not remember the most controversial point of the Gadhafi killing.
BURNETT: Interesting and of course we're looking at pictures of you there interviewing him. But thank you for pointing out that they were there because obviously that could make a difference. Thank you so much for sharing this with us, staying up so late, really amazing access there. Thanks again.
KARADSHEH: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE) BURNETT: All right. Up next, the world's most dangerous arms dealer convicted in New York this week. The woman who spent 15 years tracking him comes OUTFRONT and wow, her bio does not disappoint. Conrad Murray's pastor joins us with new details from the Michael Jackson death trial and a simply stunning story. Nicolas Sarkozy insulted by President Obama today. Yes, very much so. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: And now a story we can't resist. Ah, the best for Friday. So the leaders of the world's major economies were in France for the G-20 summit this week. And today President Obama met with French President Nicolas Sarkozy. During their joint press conference Obama said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want to make mention that this is our first meeting since the arrival of the newest Sarkozy and so I want to congratulate Nicolas and Carla on the birth of Giulia. And I informed Nicolas on the way in that I'm confident that Giulia inherited her mother's looks rather than her father's, which I think is an excellent thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Well so, Sarkozy, at first he looked a little upset there, but then he smiled, right? It was a pretty innocent comment. Well, Sarkozy, the French press did not agree. OK, this is amazing, guys. "Obama Insults Sarkozy" read the headline of one French newspaper. And a French celebrity blog, Star Gora (ph) went further with quote, "Barack Obama has openly and publicly ridiculed the physical appearance of Nicolas Sarkozy. That is not very cool for the French president was humiliated in public."
Seriously, OK, all of this is probably a jealousy thing that goes back to 2009 because then in a poll of 3,000 women President Obama was voted the sexiest world leader and Nicolas Sarkozy came in second. This inspired us to look at photos of the world leaders in the office today. On the men's side, in addition to Obama and Sarkozy, we're not going to pick between the two, our staff couldn't resist the always shirtless Vladimir Putin and Norwegian Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg.
Oh no, is that his wife? In case you're wondering, our friend Silvio Berlusconi did not make the list, but we noticed he has a really good eye when it comes to the female leaders of the world. So here's Silvio meeting with the Danish Prime Minister Helle Thorning- Schmidt (ph) -- yes -- yes, yes. You see that? He checks her out. OK. And here he is at this very G-20 summit meeting with Australian Prime Minister Julia Gillard, so we'll show you that -- yes -- yes.
That would be a look down and a look up (INAUDIBLE). Now we're -- I'm no Silvio Berlusconi, but I think the cutest female world leader is former Ukrainian Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko, aka (ph), the Swiss miss. She has beautiful hair. All right, what about you? Who are the leaders that you can't resist? Go to Facebook.com/OutFrontCNN and tell us who you can't resist.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Still OUTFRONT the "OutFront 5".
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's actually facilitated wars around the globe.
BURNETT: The merchant of death.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He had one of the largest fleets of airplanes to deliver weapons.
BURNETT: Greek tragedies.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a moment when a country needs national unity. It is precisely this moment.
UNIDENTIFIED GROUP: Justice for Michael.
BURNETT: Pending verdict.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just why (EXPLETIVE DELETED) didn't get on the stand because he can't tell the truth!
BURNETT: All this OUTFRONT in our second half.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: We start the second half of our show with stories we care about. We focus on our own reporting, do the work, and find the OUTFRONT 5.
Up first, a top U.S. commander has been relieved of duty for comments about Afghanistan. OUTFRONT has learned Major General Peter Fuller has been relieved after an interview with "Politico" where he said some Afghan leaders are, quote, "isolated from reality." Some of the criticism was directed toward Afghan President Hamid Karzai, whom he called erratic.
Major General Fuller helped oversee the training of Afghan security forces. And he does not dispute the comments.
Number two: the U.S. has become increasingly concerned Israel could be on the verge of striking Iran's nuclear program. Now, this is what a senior U.S. military official has told our Barbara Starr. The source added the military intelligence communities have stepped up, quote unquote, "watchfulness" of both Iran and Israel. A possible aircraft and missile strike comes as an international agency is set to release a report detailing Iran's progress on nuclear weapons.
Number three: six days after that rare snowstorm hit the Northeast, a chunk of Connecticut still without power. A big chunk. Connecticut Light and Power told OUTFRONT more than likely some customers will still be without power on Monday. As of tonight, 1/4 of their customers, 300,000, are still without power. It's unbelievable.
New Jersey still bad, but only 10,000 outages still remain.
Number four: it was a big debut for discount Web site Groupon. The company went public today. Shares were priced at $20. They jumped 31 percent to $26.11. It's the biggest tech IPO since Google went public in 2004.
We ran the numbers. Its current market cap is $16.5 billion, which now makes it more pricey than BlackBerry maker Research in Motion and Sears Holdings, which owns Sears and K-Mart. Groupon, though, a lot of people are very skeptical about its future.
It has been 91 days since the U.S. lost its top credit rating. What are we doing to get it back?
Well, the AK-47 is the world's most trafficked weapon. Defense experts tell OUTFRONT there are 100 million of them in the world, and some experts say the majority of them are illegal.
Now, they're just the tip of the iceberg. We're talking billions of dollars a year in illegal arms deals, and this week, one of the world's most notorious dealers, Viktor Bout, the Russian known as the merchant of death, was convicted in New York of conspiracy to kill U.S. citizens, deliver anti-aircraft missiles, and provide aid to terrorists.
Earlier tonight, we spoke with Kathi Lynn Austin, who spent the past 20 years investigating the arms trade, 15 years tracking Viktor Bout. She was at the center of this case. We asked her how she found him.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KATHI LYNN AUSTIN, FOUNDER & EXEC. CONFLICT AWARENESS PROJECT: Well, I found him in the aftermath of the Rwandan genocide in the Congo. And he was at that time in the mid-1990s just starting to get his feet wet on the ground in that area. But he quickly was able to build a massive empire of arms trafficking into the area. And as a result we had Congo war one, Congo war two, and he's actually facilitated other wars around the globe.
BURNETT: And this is -- these are small planes, cargo planes, you fly in the guns, whatever it might be. What were the weapons? And I guess you just take diamonds, cash, whatever they give you, to get out.
AUSTIN: Well, Viktor Bout was great because he had one of the largest fleets of airplanes to deliver weapons.
BURNETT: Fleets? AUSTIN: He had a fleet. And he had small planes. He had large planes, Antonovs, IL-76s, whatever was required to deliver weapons anytime anywhere to any needy client.
BURNETT: And where do the weapons come from? We always talk about the AK-47. I mean, those are everywhere now, mass produced, cheap. But where did he get them, and what were some of the other things that he was trafficking?
AUSTIN: Well, that's the concern, that there are so many weapons suppliers in the world. So, we have arms manufacturing plants all over the world. We have it in places like Bulgaria, China, Russia. The five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council are the major manufacturers of weapons in the world.
BURNETT: That is amazing. And obviously, the U.S. is the biggest arms dealer of the legal variety. But now that Viktor Bout is gone, you're looking at a lot of things. You're in Libya.
We've been talking a lot on this show about the surface-to-air missiles, the RPGs that are apparently missing. You're going to be focusing on that now.
AUSTIN: We're going to be looking at wherever there is an illegal arms trafficker operating. One of the problems is that there is very weak laws to regulate arms traffickers. There's no international global control to regulate arms traffickers. So it means that a lot of us, human rights investigators, non-profit organizations, have to step into the fold and actually go out and investigate these kinds of crimes, hoping that they'll finally be prosecuted.
BURNETT: So, who are some of the people you're looking at? Are there other major arms dealers right now like Viktor Bout who are out operating that you're tracking? Because you spent most of your time tracking in the field in all these places.
AUSTIN: Yes. As long as there's war, there's always an illegal arms trafficker ready to step in and fill Viktor Bout's shoes.
BURNETT: And "The Unofficial Spy," a book you're working on coming out next year. Going to be a movie. Angelina Jolie is going to play you.
Can you tell us anything about what's in the book? Have you talked to her about making sure that she gets it right?
AUSTIN: Well, I've put -- it's interesting. I've put the book and the movie on hold until I had the final episode. The episode is the Viktor Bout trial. Now, I know how that story ends. So I have to kind of scramble to get that out. But it's very important, yes, to just kind of tell that particular ending of the story.
BURNETT: Quickly, before we go, I'm just curious, how did you get into this line of work? Did you always desire to do this, or did it come upon you? AUSTIN: Well, my career was first as a country-western singer in a family band. And we toured the South of the United States. And I saw a lot of poverty. I saw a lot of injustice. And somehow Africa captured my imagination.
And I said when I grow up I want to go out and I want to just try to make the world a little bit safer and a little bit better. And that's kind of how I've ended up in this very strange niche of going after arms traffickers.
BURNETT: But a very important one, and to the person behind getting Viktor Bout.
All right. Kathi Lynn Austin, thanks so much for being with us.
AUSTIN: Thank you for having me.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: By the way, she said she'd originally done the opening act for Dolly Parton. An amazing woman.
All right. Well, a lawyer for the woman who accused Herman Cain of sexual harassment said today his client stands by the claim she made in 1999, she's not going to say anything more than that or come out. Herman Cain still says the allegations are a fabrication.
Now, we don't know what happened, but it got us thinking about sexual harassment in the workplace and whether it's gotten any better over time.
Paul Callan is the legal contributor here at CNN. We're also going to have the author of "The Boom-Boom Room." She had a little best a delay. But that was obviously -- she spent a lot of time tracking all these cases.
And, Paul, you represent a lot of people in sexual harassment cases.
PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR: Yes.
BURNETT: Does it still go on?
CALLAN: Oh, it most definitely goes on. There are lots of cases. They fill the federal courts. A lot of cases get settled before they even go into court. So, there's still a lot of it out there.
But there's been a radical change, Erin, in the atmosphere in the workplace, I think, between men and women and how the workplace is handled.
BURNETT: It's interesting because Susan, Susan Antilla of "The Boom-Boom Room" is going to talk about how at some small and mid-sized companies it's easier to be a sexual harasser. Big companies have a lot more human resources policies around. Would you agree? CALLAN: Yes. The big companies have written policies. They have formal training programs. They have monitoring systems to make sure this doesn't go on in the workplace, because frankly they live in terror of litigation.
It's so expensive. It causes such humiliation to those who are sued that the big companies just don't want it to happen. It's a little harder for smaller companies to do that.
BURNETT: So, you have a lot of cases. Can you give some examples of what people sue for or what constitutes now in your view common sexual harassment?
CALLAN: Well, you know, there's been a big change. I think, you know, people who can remember carbon paper and Selectric typewriters remember a time when women were pinched on the back side and told to get coffee.
BURNETT: "Mad Men."
CALLAN: You know, what goes on in that series or Pan Am, which is another new one, absolutely true. They used to weigh the Pan Am stewardesses at that time before they went into an airplane. That's gone now.
And if you speak to younger women, they say things are still bad in the workplace, but they don't remember, those were the bad old days.
I think what goes on in the workplace now is much more subtle. But there's still -- there's still discrimination that goes on, and there's also a flip side to this: confidentiality agreements. We're hearing a little bit about that in the news now.
BURNETT: Yes, we are.
CALLAN: Because there are women who make charges against men in the workplace and they know the man is going to be humiliated and destroyed, maybe his marriage ruined, if anything comes out, whether it's true or false. A quiet negotiated settlement occurs.
So, that's going on in the workplace also. But I think overall, it's a friendlier place for women to work. I think they have the ability to advance in a way that was not available back in the '50s and '60s.
BURNETT: True. And we still have progress to make.
All right. Well, thank you very much. Appreciate it, Paul. Good to see.
By the way, if you heard all the banging, I don't know if you did, but the banging was a massive fireworks display going on outside our building in honor of the New York City marathon. So, don't be worried if you heard anything. But we're excited about that.
All right. Coming up in tonight's "Outer Circle" -- the latest details from Greece.
Conrad Murray's pastor comes OUTFRONT to talk about, well, what kind of man was Dr. Murray.
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BURNETT: Same time every night, we do our "Outer Circle" -- we check around the world.
And tonight, we begin in Greece, a country reeling from, well, a prime minister who's been fighting for his political survival.
Jim Boulden is in Athens. And, Jim, confidence vote just came in. What happened?
JIM BOULDEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Erin, Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou has won the confidence vote in the parliament behind me. He will later today on Saturday go see the president, try to form a new coalition government.
The bottom line is whoever runs the government here in Greece has to push the very tough new austerity package through the parliament so that Greece does not run out of money. That is what's been worrying European markets and world markets. Now, it looks like at least today and tomorrow, the Greek government will survive and try to push through a new austerity package. And that should be good news for the markets come Monday morning -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right, Jim. Thank you very much. And it will be if they really stick with it.
Now, no verdict. After a full day of deliberating, the jury just going home in the past few minutes after failing to reach a decision on whether Dr. Conrad Murray caused the death of Michael Jackson.
Outside the courthouse the crowd was tense. They waited for the decision. That's where our Ted Rowlands is, OUTFRONT tonight.
Ted, what do you know about the deliberations?
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Seven and a half hours, Erin. They asked for some materials at one point, some evidence. They asked for some highlighters and some printed documents that were presented in court. Clearly, they are taking this very seriously, which we thought, watching them in court. So one day down. They'll have the weekend off and start again in the morning on Monday.
BURNETT: Five men, seven women. What else can you tell us about the people here?
ROWLANDS: Well, you have six people that have identified themselves as Caucasian, five Hispanic, one Latino, and then one African-American. Their jobs range from bus driver to biochemist. There's an animator on there. The youngest juror is 32 years old.
What I can tell you, too, is they seem to get along. They've been hanging out with each other for the last month. They seem to have a good rapport. So that will do well for them during this deliberation process.
BURNETT: All right. Ted, we'll talk to you on Monday.
Well, Dr. Conrad Murray remains silent and out of sight as he waits for the jury to decide his fate. Other than his interrogation tapes, we actually haven't heard anything from him because he didn't take the stand.
His pastor, Dr. Lewis Logan, has been advising him, spoke to him just a little bit before our show. He's OUTFRONT with us tonight.
And, Reverend Logan, thank you so much for taking the time to be with us.
I know you spoke to Dr. Murray today. What did he say?
REVEREND LEWIS LOGAN, PASTOR TO DR. CONRAD MURRAY: Basically, that he's hopeful that this will be over soon in the sense of wanting to bring closure to this, and just -- he's just in prayer, just in prayer and just waiting for whatever the decision may be, and hoping that life beyond this experience will carry on in a way that he can kind of move on with his life.
BURNETT: What is his biggest fear right now?
LOGAN: Well, one of the challenges, I think, that we've had prayer about and talked about early on was the sequestration of the jury itself because of the concern that the media hype of this trial and this entire proceeding, which is shown all over the world in many different languages --
BURNETT: Yes.
LOGAN: -- would just in some way pressure the jury in ways that you just could not have imagined in a trial to wouldn't have such a high notoriety and visibility.
And I think his concern has been constantly that he just be tried on the basis of the facts and the issues that are placed before the jury and that what happens in the media, the discussion, the span, and the conjecture. That's one of the biggest things.
And for me as cleric, his clergy, to just remind him that his concern is to keep his focus on the Lord and on, you know, how this is impacting his life and the family and just to be in prayer, realize the ultimate judge is the Lord. It is not judge pastor, not even the jury, but his ultimate concern is his relationship with the Lord.
BURNETT: Obviously, you're close with him and on his side I guess if that's the right way to say it.
But I want to ask you this -- what kind of a man is he? Because he didn't take the stand. Could he have been negligent, blinded by the fame of Michael Jackson, one of the most famous people on the planet? Could something like that have caused him to abdicate his duty as a doctor even if he is not a bad person?
LOGAN: I really can't comment on his professional acumen. I know him to be a compassionate, gentle individual from what I've observed in the scene and I've seen all of the stories and heard, you know, about those he has basically saved in terms of their lives and the altruistic work that he's done.
I want to make it clear that my role has been to support him as a human being, as a man in the fight of his life, guilt or innocence notwithstanding. It's not my place to judge that. It's my place to be a pastor and be a spiritual supporter.
BURNETT: OK.
LOGAN: Would it be anybody else's child and they were my -- part of my flock -- I would, you know, be there for them in terms of advice and encouragement and just support.
BURNETT: All right. Reverend Logan -- thank you very much for being with us. We appreciate it tonight.
LOGAN: OK. All right. Thank you.
BURNETT: All right. Now let's check in with Anderson Cooper.
What do you have tonight, Anderson?
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, "A.C. 360": Keeping them honest tonight on "360," Erin. Herman Cain harassment accuser sticking to her story that Cain made a series of, quote, "inappropriate behaviors and unwanted advances," end quote, toward her. We'll play you portions of the news conference and talk with our panel about the latest poll taken after the allegations surfaced, that put Cain near the top of the Republican pack.
Also tonight, you were just talking about it, the Michael Jackson death trial. The jury has the case. We're going to have details on exactly who is on that jury and what could sway them to convict or absolve Jackson's physician, Conrad Murray, of involuntary manslaughter.
Also last night, we spoke with a woman beaten by her father after downloading music and games. She was a teenager at the time. Tonight, Dr. Drew Pinsky on parents who take discipline too far.
Those stories and tonight's 'Ridiculist" at the top of the hour -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Anderson. See you in a couple minutes.
OUTFRONT next, the latest from the G-20 summit in France. CNN's Ali Velshi is there. He comes OUTFRONT to talk about the crisis, what you can do with your finances, and yes, why Nicolas Sarkozy -- I don't know -- has to be hotter than his wife.
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BURNETT: Within an hour after arriving at the G-20 summit, President Obama met with French President Sarkozy. He immediately congratulated the new father on the birth of his baby girl, saying, quote, "I'm confident Giulia inherited her mother's look rather than her father's which I think is an excellent thing."
Now, as Americans, we have no problem what our president said. But the French appear to be insulted. They've been writing it today.
Ali Velshi, our chief business correspondent, is live from Cannes tonight.
Ali, I got a big chuckle out of this.
ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I was watching. And I'll tell you, you know, they have simultaneous translation which delays it by about two or three seconds, so the president said it and you didn't see Sarkozy laugh and then what happened is when the translation came through, he sort of chuckled a little bit. I think it gave some people the impression he might have been insulted by it.
Some people say he is sensitive about the way he looks. I mean, he looks like a fine guy to me. I don't know what the problem is. But it seems a common compliment in the U.S.
But a lot of French papers are saying it was an insult, didn't go over well. These two men don't have a great personal relationship and it was a dig. I don't know. It looked fine to me.
BURNETT: I don't know. Hey, he is married to a super model. So, you know? I just will rest my case.
VELSHI: That's true.
BURNETT: So, there's that.
VELSHI: Most of us don't look as good as our wives. But if you're married to a super model, you better get ready to take the digs.
BURNETT: Oh, gosh. We had a lot of fun with that.
Ali, Sarkozy wants America's help with the European crisis. What role will the U.S. play do you think?
VELSHI: Well, there's not really a need for money at the moment. There is enough money. They're talking about shoring up the IMF, but there is enough money to give to countries like Greece to fix their problems.
The problem isn't structural. It's political. We watched it tonight. These countries have got to decide they're going to do the right thing. So, now, we're concentrating on Italy. What I think the moral victory was this week was that when Sarkozy and Merkel called Papandreou right here to Cannes. They gave him a dressing down and they said, you'd figure out how you want to fix your problems, but if they don't fix it, they gave a mafia style warning.
BURNETT: Yes.
VELSHI: They said, basically, we're going to kick your legs. We're going to kick you out of the E.U. That is the toughness required.
The world has got to say to these countries fix your problems. Don't drag us down with you.
BURNETT: I like the mafia example.
All right. I want to mention your latest accomplishment your new book with Christine Romans. I'm holding it up. We'll show it to viewers here.
"How to Speak Money: The Language and Knowledge You need Now." There it is.
Now, today, we had the unemployment number in the U.S., Ali, 9 percent. Good, but the jobs number still pretty terrible.
VELSHI: Yes.
BURNETT: You go in here to what advice for people looking for a job?
VELSHI: Well, so, 9 percent. You probably put 50 percent more on there for people who are not looking for jobs. A lot of people are unemployed in America. It doesn't really matter what the politicians are saying about it. You may be in an industry -- particularly manufacturing -- that's not coming back any time soon.
So, one of the things that Christine and I addressed is the idea that you have to calculate whether it's time to move out of a dying industry into one that's growing. There are great growing industries in America -- accounting, engineering, anything to do with software, health care professions.
So, how do you go from being a manufacturing worker to being a nurse? How do you know if it's worth the investment? We address a lot of that. You've just have to take it into your own hands at this point.
You can't wait. We're not going to get the unemployment rate down to 5 percent or 4 percent for another five years probably.
BURNETT: Ten seconds, Ali. Best investment advice?
VELSHI: You got to invest. You can't have your money sitting around in a bank account that gets two-tenths of a percent. The book will walk you through that too. You've got to make investments.
BURNETT: All right. Ali's book. I'm holding it up here. Go and get a copy.
Ali, thanks. Have a great night.
And Monday, former Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura -- we're excited.
Anderson Cooper starts now.
