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Erin Burnett Outfront
Europe's $6 Trillion Bailout Tab; Suing Florida; Sandusky Sex Abuse Trial
Aired June 11, 2012 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, HOST: OUTFRONT next breaking news, the Dow falls about 150 points. The reason, Europe could cost American taxpayers trillions.
And Apple made several announcements today, iPhones, iPads all on the list and SIRI getting a big surge.
And we've got new details about the drugs that could be behind the zombie-like attacks. A drug agent responsible for a huge bust this weekend, exclusively gives us the details and pictures. Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening, everyone. I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight how much will it cost to bail out Europe?
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One million dollars.
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BURNETT: Just like Dr. Evil in "Austin Powers," that's not enough.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One hundred billion dollars.
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BURNETT: Nope. Even a super villain would not ask for a number this big. The final number to bail out Europe could be closer to $6 trillion. So take a deep breath because I'll get to that grand total in just a moment because just days ahead of those crucial Greek elections, Spain asked for $125 billion to bail out its banks.
And that's just the beginning because Spain is only one of several European countries lining up for more money. Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Greece, already everyone have asked for $615.5 billion. But does it add up to enough to save them and us from more economic calamity? Sources tell OUTFRONT not even close.
One of our most reliable sources Knight Capital trader Peter Kenny (ph) says that all estimates to date on how much this is going to cost have been wrong. He warns about a domino effect, most notably on France and says we're not even close to stabilization. Desmond Lockman (ph) of the American Enterprise Institute says Europe needs about $1.2 trillion just to bail out Spain and Italy.
John Malden (ph), a renowned financial expert who is heavily followed by traders on Wall Street, says the amount needed could be five or $6.2 trillion. I mean hey I thought six trillion was enough, but I mean a couple hundred billion at that point is just rounding, right? Everybody that's about eight TARPs and it may not even be enough to save Europe because this all requires the help of the United States and the U.S. fed.
And, yes, the IMF, U.S. taxpayers, this is all central to us and how much money we will pay. What happens if Europe breaks apart? Well this means the break-up of the world's biggest economy and our biggest trading partner it means tens of thousands of American jobs gone. OUTFRONT tonight is PIMCO founder and CIO Bill Gross, one of the largest investors of retirement money in this country and someone who knows a lot about this.
So Bill, I guess let's just start with this issue of it's been sort of band-aid after band-aid. When are we going to know how much this really is going to cost?
BILL GROSS, PIMCO FOUNDER, CO-CHIEF INVESTMENT OFFICER: You know Erin I don't think we'll ever know. It's been an ad hoc approach, as you suggest. Up until this point, Euro land through its Central Bank, which is the ECB, basically has written about $2 trillion worth of checks, about the same amount, by the way, as our fed has written. How much more do we need?
Is it the six trillion that one of your viewers suggests? I'm not so sure it's that much. But it's a lot of money. It probably amounts to trillions of dollars when you include not only Spain, Italy and as you mentioned France as well.
BURNETT: And France is a big issue. I think a lot of people watching the show they say OK, I've heard about Greece. I've heard about Spain. I think I've heard about Italy, but France?
GROSS: Well, France you know it is not teetering but it's certainly not growing. It's in a small recession. You know as it turns out, Greece was really sort of a Trojan horse, not that the election on Saturday doesn't matter. It does. But you know Spain is the real deal. Spain is the tenth largest economy in the world. It's got a GDP of about $1.5 trillion. That's about a tenth of what ours is, but very big.
And to the extent that Spain you know goes downhill, they have got 25 percent unemployment, Erin. Imagine. That's like the 1930's in the United States.
BURNETT: Right.
GROSS: To the extent that they continue in a depression, then, yes, you know the Spanish plight becomes the plight of Italy as well as Spain and France. BURNETT: So Bill, what is -- what are the risks in your view? I mean you're someone who has put money in this and has to everyday make a decision on whether you're going to put pension money from Americans into these economies. Would you do it right now? Or I mean is it in your view sort of whether it's down the road or soon, Europe's going to break up?
GROSS: I wouldn't do it. And we haven't done it. You know PIMCO has been out of Euro land basically with the exception of Germany and France for about a year and a half or two years. I think what Euro land needs, what they want, what all of these measures basically are trying to do is to entice private investors such as PIMCO, such as China and associated agencies back into the market, so to speak.
You know will they do it at six to seven percent yield? I don't think that's enough relative to the risk. And so it will be up to the ECB, again, their federal reserve, to continue to write checks. And that might amount to hundreds of billions and perhaps as you suggest trillions of dollars.
BURNETT: And Bill, you know today "The Wall Street Journal" had a survey saying the top issue for Americans who are getting ready to retire was Europe. There were three issues up there and Europe was one of them. What could the U.S. be on hold for? I mean you know the U.S., the fed is intimately involved in all sorts of ways of providing easy money to Europe, but I mean how much money could the U.S. be on the hook for? I know it's a hard question because you don't really know how much Europe is going to need. But I mean this is the crucial question for taxpayers.
GROSS: Well, three ways of involvement, really. The U.S. banks and there it's a small proportion. Secondly, the IMF, we participate significantly in the IMF, although I don't expect the U.S. to allow the IMF to make loans to Spain and to associated countries from this point forward. And third, there are swap lines from the Federal Reserve that have been used and continue to be used.
So you know there is some liability from the same point of the United States. But I don't think it's significant. What is really significant is the effect on U.S. economic growth. We're slowing. We're at two percent. We might move down to one percent. And if Spain you know basically continues on its path, then we might approach the zero percent level, which you know ultimately is the worst effect of this particular crisis.
BURNETT: All right, well Bill Gross, thank you very much. We appreciate your taking the time. And for those out there, obviously as Bill said, IMF may not help from this point forward. Up until now, they've provided incredible loans to countries including Portugal and Greece and Ireland.
Up next, breaking news, the Department of Justice suing the state of Florida, accusing Florida of not allowing a certain group of people to vote. And a nasty family feud in the Kennedy dynasty, details leaking out in a tale of lies and tragedy and the drug linked to zombie-like attacks, an undercover agent OUTFRONT to tell us the horror he saw.
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BURNETT: Our second story OUTFRONT, the U.S. government and the state of Florida suing each other over Florida's controversial voter purge plan. The storm has been brewing for a while. Republican Governor Rick Scott pushed for the purge saying he wanted to reduce voter fraud. Opponents say it will unfairly racially target, targeting minorities and the poor.
John Avlon, Roland Martin and Reihan Salam are with us. All right, so let me start with you, Roland. So this is -- I know you don't like this idea, but I was just saying to you what I don't understand is when someone goes to the polls and you're a citizen, could you prove you're a citizen right there and then and then this would eliminate the whole problem?
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: No, no because the reality is when I go to the polls, I bring my voter registration card and then I have a driver's license if I need that, but I typically simply just need my voter registration card. The real issue here is that you have clerks, supervisors, election supervisors who told the state, hey, this list has problems.
Let's not move forward with it. They also waited far too late to push this thing forward. For the DOJ, their job is to protect the voting rights of people who are affected as a result of the Voting Rights Act and so Florida they screwed up and the government needs to admit it.
BURNETT: Right. They're doing this too close to the primaries --
MARTIN: Absolutely --
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MARTIN: That's the problem.
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: All right, Reihan, what about though, is there another way to accomplish this, to have people who are citizens be the ones voting without racially targeting certain groups of minorities and people who are lower income?
REIHAN SALAM, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well there's been a big controversy across many states, not just in the American south but particularly in the American south regarding voter IDs. That is, do we provide some more secure system of voter identification to make sure that the people who are showing up at the polls are in fact the people they claim to be? Look, the vast majority of the time, there is nothing untoward happening. There is no fraud happening, et cetera. But there is an anxiety about a small handful of cases. And so that's one of the reasons why you have this kind of reaction (INAUDIBLE) state governments including the state government of Florida. And I think that you know it's entirely possible that you have to have a give and take here. The Justice Department is totally you know right and appropriate to be seeing to it that, hey, Florida's not overstepping its bounds.
On the other hand, there are also natural mechanisms in the states themselves which will check excessive behavior. So I think it remains to be seen whether or not this is the right decision. But I do think that you know you don't want to go about this sloppily. You want to be sure this is done in a very careful and deliberate matter.
BURNETT: Yes.
JOHN AVLON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: But the only give and take right now is dueling lawsuits between the federal government and the state of Florida.
BURNETT: Right.
AVLON: And of course the big problem here is there is this legacy of people being denied their franchise throughout American history, really through the 1960's. On the converse (ph) side you've got some folks in Florida who say look we've had dead people vote before. There's clearly a problem in some of our rolls.
But when you get a World War II veteran, such as happened in this particular purge, being told he's not a citizen and has to you know come to a tribunal to prove it, you've got a problem. So right now, this is all coming to a head, a lot of history and a lot of --
MARTIN: I want to give you an actual fact.
BURNETT: OK.
MARTIN: You just heard -- talked about a small number of voters -- National Republican Lawyers Association came forward with a report saying here we have the evidence of voter fraud. They brought forth about 300 cases in the entire country in 10 years. And so this is what we call a solution in search of a problem. And so when you hear there's a small number, it is a small number. But it goes beyond just the issue of voter ID. You also -- the outlawing of voting on Sundays when it comes to early voting, the whole issue in Ohio, they actually passed a law that said that if you're a poll worker, you don't have to tell somebody what their correct voting location is if you don't want to. It's simply voluntary, so those -- these kinds of --
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: -- are nuts.
BURNETT: Are you trying to say -- you're trying to say that people who aren't citizens aren't really trying to vote? If you can only come up with 300 around the country -- (CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: It's not even really a problem.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: What I'm saying is when you hear people say massive voter fraud, they can't even prove it. The Republican lawyers found 300 in 10 years.
AVLON: Clearly (INAUDIBLE) dead people should never vote.
MARTIN: Oh, duh!
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Look, I get protecting the voter rolls. But give me a break. It's not like all of a sudden they found 30, 40 --
AVLON: The problem is that we've seen a pattern also of raising the barrier, make it a little more difficult to register folks, things like that, and that raises real legitimate concerns --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
AVLON: -- so you've got the Justice Department, do this job of the Voting Rights Act, but now you've got another face-off --
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: Do you have a problem Roland -- I get to Reihan's answer -- when you go to get a voting card rights that you can vote, a voter registration with having to prove citizenship --
MARTIN: Actually you don't have to because according to the law, if you choose to vote absentee, you don't even need a voter ID. So when they say it's to protect the vote, that's only if you show up at the poll. So you can still right now register to vote --
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: -- vote absentee and not get a voter ID.
BURNETT: OK, that -- but would you agree in all cases that you would need to prove citizenship at some point in some way?
MARTIN: Well I certainly believe approving citizenship.
BURNETT: Yes.
MARTIN: The problem is that when you are targeting 180,000 is overwhelmingly a certain group of people --
BURNETT: It is overwhelming.
MARTIN: We understand the impact when you're able to suppress the vote.
AVLON: Within 90 days of the primary, too, and that's the thing. The clock is ticking.
BURNETT: Reihan, what about this? I mean it's not as if Roland is sitting here saying no you shouldn't have to prove it. He's just saying the way that people are going about it in all these states isn't the right way.
SALAM: Well I'd love to see a compromised proposal. Let's think about moving the voting day from Tuesday to say Sunday and also let's agree that we need some rock solid, ironclad voter ID laws. And let's shift the locusts (ph) of efforts away from fighting voter ID laws to saying let's be sure that members of marginalized communities, folks who don't necessarily have voter IDS are able to get them. I think that that would be a great compromise proposal and I do think that it's actually -- it's very silly to have voting on Tuesdays, a day when you know most people have to go to work --
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: It's very hard to vote on Tuesday.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: It's ridiculous and then in Florida, their rationale for not allowing early voting on Sunday is because the people need time to count the ballots. It's too short of a time if they vote on Sunday before the election. It is nonsense. In Maine, the Republican legislature outlawed same-day registration. People didn't ask for it. They simply outlawed it. The people had to go back to the polls, overturn that decision. This has been a clear effort in 36 states by GOP legislatures to change what's going on here. And I'm saying look and I even asked my Republican friends, give me one example of them expanding access to the ballot. Not one person can give me that, so that tells me you're not trying to expand access, you're trying to limit access.
BURNETT: And Reihan, wouldn't you agree that the whole point is you do want it to be broader access and more people and the people who don't have you know the education or the ability to easily read are going to be people who are afraid and intimidated by the process already.
SALAM: Well I think that when you're talking about expanding access, one of the largest groups that is denied access in many states includes ex-offenders. And unfortunately this is a group where it's actually very controversial for Democrats and Republicans to talk openly about the fact that you have hundreds of thousands of Americans who by virtue of having served a prison sentence are no longer able to exercise the franchise. And I think that you know that certainly is a legitimate concern and it's a very controversial issue.
(CROSSTALK)
SALAM: But I think that -- I'm sorry? AVLON: And it's one of many. And look I love hearing you come up with a centrist solution. It makes me smile. The point is we should be lowering the barriers. I think Tuesdays (INAUDIBLE) calendar you know for gosh sakes, so let's, you know let's move towards letting more people vote and making sure it's all --
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: And guess who got rid of felons voting? Governor Rick Scott, Jeb Bush, when he was governor allowed them to vote. Rick Scott overturned what Jeb Bush did.
BURNETT: All right, thanks to all. Appreciate it. Let us know what you think.
And still OUTFRONT, it costs more and has fewer features? Is Apple's new computer worth it?
And day one of the Jerry Sandusky trial, sexually graphic testimony and talk of the former Penn State coach taking the stand. Our Paul Callan is next.
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BURNETT: Our third story OUTFRONT former Penn State football coach Jerry Sandusky charged with child rape may take the stand in his own defense. His lawyer hinted at the possibility after today's dramatic and graphic testimony from one of his alleged victims. The first witness said that Sandusky treated him like his girlfriend and sent him love letters to -- one of which read, "I know I have -- may have made my share of mistakes. However, I hope that I will be able to say that I cared. There has been love in my heart. My wish is that you care and that you have love in your heart."
The defense filed a motion stating Sandusky suffers from a psychological condition that may explain some of his behavior, including that letter. Sandusky acknowledged showering and horsing around with boys, but has denied being sexually attracted to them. He has pleaded not guilty to the charges. Paul Callan is OUTFRONT tonight.
Paul, what was your reaction to the testimony today? I mean that was a chilling letter just to even read the excerpt, but we did get obviously quite a few graphic details from this first, now man.
PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR: It was an amazing day in terms of testimony in court. And this case is moving at break-neck speed. The jury was basically picked in about two days. And now prosecutors put victim number four on the witness stand who gave unbelievably graphic testimony. I mean it spread out over a period of years. It involved Sandusky not only engaging in these showers, soap battles, as they were described --
BURNETT: Right.
CALLAN: -- but eventually oral sex and other things on numerous, numerous occasions and then culminating with the love letter as prosecutors are going to characterize it.
BURNETT: Why start with victim number four, because they think that he is the strongest or what would be the strategy for that?
CALLAN: Prosecutors traditionally start strong and finish strong. So of the eight victims who are going -- alleged victims who are going to testify, they must have thought that victim number four had some of the most compelling testimony. And he certainly did. There was a lot of detail and there was a lot to move the jury in that first day.
BURNETT: It was moving and very sad. The defense has filed this motion I said that he has a psychological condition, which they call histrionic personality disorder, which they say could account for what he did including that letter. What is it? Could it?
CALLAN: Well this is --
(CROSSTALK)
CALLAN: This tops all. Histrionic personality disorder, HPD, is something that women suffer from by a four-to-one ratio as compared to men. And basically it is a disorder that involves you engaging in attention-seeking behavior and there's really nothing in it that has to do with pedophilia or anything else, so bottom line is they're saying well Sandusky seeks attention and he acts inappropriately to get attention, so that's why he did this, but it's not --
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: -- with children. I mean that doesn't make any --
CALLAN: Well -- well not only that, but it's not a defense. This is not insanity. Criminals throughout the United States have personality disorders. That doesn't make them innocent of the crime. You have to be insane to be innocent of the crime, so this is just --
BURNETT: Right.
CALLAN: -- an excuse. It's not really --
BURNETT: Well especially since they're pleading not guilty, but now giving excuses for the behavior that they say that he didn't do, so I'm not a lawyer, but that to me seems like --
CALLAN: I'm betting --
BURNETT: -- very good.
CALLAN: I'm betting the judge won't even allow testimony about this disorder to come into evidence.
BURNETT: And also his lawyer today said something that indicated he could take the stand. Should he? Will he?
CALLAN: Well this was a real surprise. He said you will hear from Jerry. Jerry will say -- he said this repeatedly in his opening statement, Amendola suggesting he'll take the stand. I don't think he'll ever take the stand. Amendola is going to find a way to play videotapes of him telling his story. He knows the prosecutor is going to do that. And that's how he's going to ultimately say to the jury, you heard Jerry say -- I'd be shocked if he takes the stand because you can imagine the cross-examination he'll be subjected to.
BURNETT: (INAUDIBLE) all right, well thanks very much, appreciate it to Paul Callan and still OUTFRONT in our second half are lawmakers working on a secret deal to avoid the fiscal cliff that means a big tax cut?
And we take you inside the world of a drug linked to the zombie- like attacks, an undercover drug agent OUTFRONT next with exclusive information.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was actually picking apart her skin saying that she felt when she was on it that she had bugs in her skin.
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BURNETT: Welcome back to the second half hour of OUTFRONT. We start with our stories we care about, where we focus on our own reporting from the front lines. The House Oversight Committee announced it will consider a measure to hold Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt for failing to provide information related to the "fast and furious" investigation. A statement from the panel says it will consider the citation on June 20th. If the panel decides that Holder is in contempt, the measure will have to get approval from the full chamber.
The Justice Department called the committee's actions unfortunate and unwarranted.
Well, Commerce Secretary John Bryson is under investigation for a possible felony hit and run after allegedly causing two car accidents in California. The Commerce Department says Secretary Bryson suffered a seizure. Police say Bryson was found unconscious at the wheel of his car.
He did take a breathalyzer test that did not detect alcohol use. Police say there was no indication that drugs played a role. Secretary Bryson was issued a citation. Authorities need to decide whether they're going to formally file charges.
And a Navy drone crash today near Salisbury, Maryland. It was RQ4A Global Hawk drone. The crash was extremely rare and costly. This drone, everyone, this drone costs $176 million.
A spokesman from the Naval Air Station Patuxent River say the drone went down over a routine training flight over the Tuckahoe (ph) River. No one on the ground was injured. But that is an incredible loss in air to lose a drone at that expense.
Iranian sanctions meantime losing teeth and steam. Today, the USA gave waivers to India, South Korea and Turkey among others, allowing them to buy Iranian oil and still access the U.S. financial system. That's how we get the sanctions to work. That usually is incredible leverage. But we gave these waivers and they are just an example of how U.S. sanctions with Iran are sometimes more bark than bite.
Iran is India's second biggest supplier of oil. It makes up about 12 percent of India's crude import needs. India provides a lot of money to Iran.
Well, it's been 312 days since the U.S. lost its top credit rating. What are we doing to get it back? I have a terrible fear, everybody, we're not doing enough to prevent that number from getting to 365 this summer.
Well, it's been called a ticking bomb -- ticking tax bomb approaching the end of the year. That's when the Bush tax cuts are expiring unless Congress acts. Remember the whole thing where they were 10-year tax cuts, which was ridiculous to begin with but that's what they do when they want to get a good score from the CBO. Republicans are hoping Democrats will extend the tax cuts for everyone, no matter how much you earn. The Democrats said no way. The president said he would veto that.
But now reports there could be a secret deal on the Democratic side, according to "The Washington Post". Here's the scenario. So, it goes like this. Democrats would let all the tax cuts expire on January 1st. Then they come back a few weeks later for the New Year session and cut tax rates on the middle class. Why? Well, because that would mean if Republicans don't like it would have to vote against tax cuts.
Stephen Moore, he's with "The Wall Street Journal" editorial board. Roland Martin is with me and John Avlon.
Stephen Moore, I have to say this is sort of genius, because it gets around presidential veto, too. It gives tax cuts for the middle class. Republicans really don't want to vote against tax cuts.
STEPHEN MOORE, WALL STREET JOURNAL: Erin, I don't think we can wait until January to get this resolved. I mean, you've got a lot of issues out there right now. Every business in America doesn't know what the capital gains tax is going to be next year, what the dividend tax, what the small business tax --
BURNETT: Yes, but, what about this specific issue?
MOORE: I think it's holding back the economy right now. I think it's got to get resolved as quickly as possible. And I think if it doesn't, Erin, I think it hurts the president's reelection prospects. I mean, who wants to invest in this tsunami of --
BURNETT: OK, hold on, Stephen. I know what you're saying but you're not answering my question.
MOORE: OK.
BURNETT: Would the strategy work, where you let them go away for everybody? That's playing roulette for the Democrats because that's a tax increase, but then a few weeks later, you force the Republicans to vote against the tax cut just for the middle class.
MOORE: I don't think that Republicans quite rightly are going to go off any deal that doesn't cut the rates for everybody. Again, I should say, keep the rates where they have because they're all scheduled to go up next year. So, I'm not so sure that that strategy is so smart because I don't think it's going to get through Congress.
By the way, the problem with that theory is we don't know what Congress is going to look like in January, right? I mean, we don't know if Congress is going to be run by the Democrats or Republicans. All of this stuff, it's all a wild card right now.
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, here's the fundamental issue here. Democrats -- this is a cute political game. At the end of the day, Democrats should be talking about is cutting -- getting rid of the Bush tax cuts for those folks over $1 million, OK? And the one thing I would love to hear from Stephen and all my dear conservative friends, if they own up to the fact that you can't talk deficit out one side of your mouth and not own up to the fact that the Bush tax cuts have contributed to this very deficit we have.
And so, Republicans can't keep saying, we love all tax cuts if you don't own up to how this is affecting the deficit.
BURNETT: It is true. When you look at deficit contributors, Stephen, Bush tax cuts are right up there.
MOORE: Well, you're not going to raise any revenue from raising the capital gains tax. I mean, every time we've raised the capital gains tax, we've lost revenue and we cut the rate --
MARTIN: Please just own up to what I just said.
MOORE: That's historical evidence.
MARTIN: Did the Bush tax cuts contribute to the national debt?
MOORE: Roland, how are you going to grow this economy if you're going to tax the business? We know that 70 percent of that income that you're talking about is business income, most of it is.
MARTIN: Just please answer the question.
BURNETT: Stephen, can you at least acknowledge that? It is a fair point. It is a fact.
MOORE: Acknowledge which point?
MARTIN: The fact that the Bush tax cuts increased the national debt?
MOORE: Wait a minute. OK, Roland, if you look at the four years --
MARTIN: Oh, my God, come on, Stephen. Please! Can you please --
MOORE: Let me finish my point. In the four years after the Bush tax cuts in 2003, $800 billion of revenue, the biggest increase in tax revenues in history. The way you get revenues in, Roland, I want more revenues, you do, is you grow this economy. You're not going to grow the economy by raising tax rates on investment.
Erin, you know this. The big story with investment, nobody's investing. Everybody's investing in 10-year treasury bills --
BURNETT: The lack of certainty is a big issue. I give you that. But it doesn't necessarily dictate how you end up on a solution.
JOHN AVLON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Right. But futures are always uncertain especially before an election. So, I'm going to put that aside. Stephen's trying to square a circle because it's really at the heart of conservatism.
What's more important, cutting taxes to allegedly stimulate growth or dealing with the deficit? But you can't do both, at least not in the near term. And what the Democrats are talking about right here -- they're playing poker in public. They're saying, look, we're going to call your bluff, let it expire, we're going to put forward a middle class tax cut. On the same side, playing poker, I'd love to see an argument the Republicans make about letting taxes -- why not make the top threshold be $1 million a year? Not $250,000. That's tough to argue against --
MOORE: If I care more about the Republicans than I care about the American economy, I'd want the Democrats to do that. I would want the Democrats to go in this election saying the tax rates are going to go up because it's going to hurt the economy and it's going to hurt the economy before January. You're going to have a selloff of stocks. Who wants to take capital gains in 2013 when you can take them at a lower rate now?
I think the smartest thing, Erin, that this president could do is make an announcement tonight or tomorrow tonight that there aren't going to be any tax increases next year, as you know --
BURNETT: He can't do it. He said he would veto it --
(CROSSTALK)
AVLON: Stephen, are you going to be back in a grand bargain before the election, one that might lower rates but close loopholes to raise revenue?
MOORE: I'm all in favor of that. But know is the worst possible time to raise taxes on investment when nobody is investing. You're going to cause a drought of investment.
BURNETT: Investment is one part. For most people, it's income tax rates.
MARTIN: You have a positive debate over tax reduction --
MOORE: Roland --
MARTIN: Stephen, every Republican who complains about the stimulus bill, $787 billion, 40 percent of that was tax cuts. But they still complain about it.
MOORE: I need to correct something you just said. You said that I'm supporting a tax cut. No, I'm not. We ought to keep the tax rates where they are right now. Next year, we're going to have a huge tax increase --
MARTIN: Let's do it. And I don't want to hear you say a word about the deficit.
BURNETT: All right.
MOORE: What about austerity in government? No tax increases, government spending cuts.
MARTIN: There we go.
BURNETT: I think we'll have to have you back. There will be a second version of this movie.
MARTIN: He won't own up to it.
BURNETT: Thanks to all three of you. Thank you.
A drug bust in New Hampshire raising fears about a new class of lethal drugs that can cause suicide and psychotic behavior. The drugs are those bath salts that we've been talking about recently and they were just found in big quantities in the small community of Plaistow, New Hampshire, a town of 9,000 people. Police seized more than $100,000 of the drug from a convenience store -- this one, over the week.
Since last October, America has seen a concerning trend of bath salt use prompting the DEA to ban three of the chemicals found in the drug. But bath salts are suspected in the horrifying assault in Miami, the man who ate off another man's face, the horrible picture and other -- some of them cannibalistic attacks around the country.
Detective George Wickson is the undercover agent who made the bust in Plaistow. We're keeping his identity hidden as he's still investigating for the drugs and he's OUTFRONT tonight.
And good to see you, detective. Appreciate you're taking the time.
So, tell me about this bust. How big was it and how did you find it?
DETECTIVE GEORGE WICKSON, PLAISTOW, NH POLICE DEPARTMENT: Well, over the last several months, we've been receiving numerous complaints about the bath salts. We've also seen an increase in bath salt related cases, so we started to investigate the facility. In investigating it, undercover officers, myself, we went into the location. We purchased bath salts several times.
BURNETT: We've all heard about the horrific case in Miami. Does that sound similar? I mean, have there been cases in your community where people have engaged in truly horrific behavior?
WICKSON: We did have a female just before a couple of hours before hitting the police that her boyfriend called concerned that she was on her way to that location who's supposed to buy the drug and she actually bought it, did half the container and she had told me that she went from being a heroin and an avid cocaine user to using bath salts. She was actually picking apart her skin saying that she felt when she was on it that she had bugs in her skin.
She was severe hallucinogenics. She started feeling an out-of- body experience and extreme paranoia was one of the indicators that she said she often feels when she's on bath salts.
BURNETT: Is this something where you're seeing more people adopt it like they did in something like meth that became a national health crisis?
WICKSON: I do. The reason why I think that we're seeing a great uptick in these bath salt related cases is that everybody's getting the buzz, the Internet, that it's giving the same effects as ecstasy. It's been attributed to giving some effects like ecstasy, PCP, LSD, methamphetamine, cocaine.
So, I think those users that are trying to seek out a way of -- that law enforcement really hadn't -- or a lot of law enforcement hasn't really caught on to yet, they feel that they're using this in place of it.
BURNETT: How do they make bath salts? I mean, is this like people at home making them and every combination is different and some can kill you and some might just give you a buzz?
WICKSON: Whenever I say bath salt in my community, people think of the nice warm bath salt that is people put into a tub to get aromatherapy and stuff. That is not the case. This stuff is selling in half gram and gram quantities. It's selling from anywhere from $40 to $100. It's a white powder, looks very common.
BURNETT: Forty to $100 for what, for half a gram?
WICKSON: Yes.
BURNETT: Wow.
WICKSON: It's been disguised as chrome cleaner, pipe cleaner, facial products.
BURNETT: Detective Wickson, thank you so much and appreciate your taking the time. Good luck.
All right. Next, new and exclusive details into the family feud in the Kennedy family.
And British Prime Minister David Cameron walked into a bar. What happened next, though, is no joke.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: So today, Apple kicked off its big developers' conference and everybody was wondering would they announce a TV? What would they do?
Well, what they did was more features for its operating system, Mountain Lion. And they have a new one, the iOS 6, which has maps, MacBook pros and Siri, that voice, coming to the iPad.
Siri gets a bigger brain and promises to answer some real time questions like active sports scores, which apparently, according to some of our staff members, she was an utter failure at.
We were also curious about the MacBook Pro, though. Apple unveiled one today with a retina display. And, of course, like everything Apple builds, it's very pretty.
But it's also pretty expensive. The base level for this new Pro is $2,199.
So I was curious of whether there was anything else on the market similar to the MacBook Pro.
We asked Bill Santo Domingo of "PC Mag," he said, there's something close, the HP Envy 14 Spectra Series. Wow, maybe they can do cars and just have one name. Anyway, it is a smaller screen. It doesn't have the retina display. But other than that, pretty similar and it got the closest specs. The cost? That's our number tonight, $1,958. It is $215 less than the Pro. It doesn't include insurance or other things like that.
Here's one other key thing, the new MacBook Pro has flash drive. The Envy Spectra has solid state drive. Now to me that go -- what? Anyway, it may not make a difference to me, but to any of you who are hard-core computer users, it's obviously a very big deal.
It may be worth $215 or not. Let us know. We always want to hear from you.
And now, let's check in with Anderson.
Anderson, what's coming up on "A.C. 360"?
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, "A.C. 360": Erin, we're coming breaking news ahead on the program. New numbers on the Colorado wildfire that's already devoured nearly 40,000 acres, continues to grow by some estimates. It's spreading at a rate of 40 feet per minute. They're fighting it hard. We'll show you the last on that.
Also, keep them honest tonight. Six words that President Obama first had to walk back and may wish he could take back, quote, "The private sector is doing fine." He said that on Friday. Republicans pounced but are the attacks released today truthful? At least one Republican online ad is pretty much taking the president's comments out of context. We'll play that for you, and we'll speak with Ari Fleischer and Bill Burton.
Also, Robin Roberts, another fight for her life. She's got a life-threatening disease, possibly brought on by her prior treatment for breast cancer. She needs and she has found a donor. We'll tell you who that is and talking about the prognosis with Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
All that, the latest on the Jerry Sandusky trial and the "Ridiculist," all at the top of the hour, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. See you in a few minutes, Anderson.
And now our fifth story OUTFRONT: There are new details tonight surrounding the last days of Mary Kennedy's life. According to "Newsweek" contributor Laurence Leamer, the late wife of Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., was drinking heavily, was severely depressed and devastated by her pending divorce and the threat of losing custody of her four children.
Leamer conducted 45 hours of interviews with family, friends and acquaintances of the Kennedy family, including the housekeeper who was with Mary to the end. He also has exclusive access to this 60-page affidavit filed by Robert Kennedy, Jr., in which he claims he was physically abused by his wife.
Laurence Leamer is OUTFRONT with much more of these revealing details.
Laurence, what was the most shocking revelation that you learned from the affidavit, from all these many interviews you did with people close to the family?
LAURENCE LEAMER, NEWSWEEK CONTRIBUTOR: I don't think there's just one. It was a magnitude of them. And, frankly, the worse ones I put in the article; the abuse of the children. I thought that was unnecessary. I don't want people to view this as an evil woman.
She was not an evil woman. She had borderline personality disorder, a very serious psychological illness that most people don't even know about. This was a result of this. It wasn't anything she meant to do or cared to do.
BURNETT: I just want to read something from the affidavit --
LEAMER: Please.
BURNETT: -- which of course you provided. Bobby Kennedy says, quote, "Mary's violence and physical abuse towards me began before we were married." Did you find sources to substantiate that claim?
LEAMER: Well, before he was married, he says that she was a trained boxer and she hit him in the face with such strength that she hurt his eye ducts. You see him now, he'll just start crying out of -- his left eye for no reason. That's because of this.
I found somebody who saw him right afterwards. Saw his face like that. Now, that person didn't know what had happened.
And that's -- an awful lot of this was hidden. A lot of this violence was just in the house. The children saw it. The housekeeper saw it. The people outside the house didn't see it.
BURNETT: What did the housekeeper tell you about the final days?
LEAMER: Just -- well, first of all, she -- Mary -- the children were -- she was only -- because of the alcoholism, the trouble, she had two DUIs, she was only able to see the children when she was supervised. The housekeeper was in charge by the court to make sure she was OK. On Sunday, she was with her four children and she started to drink and she had to call the court.
And then she called Mary's sisters and brothers and they said they would come over. According to the housekeeper, they did not come over. This was the beginning of the end for her.
BURNETT: You said that day the housekeeper seemed to think she was saying good-bye to the children.
LEAMER: Yes, she went -- the last weekend, her kids were in private school, she went to see them. The children were delighted, here is mom, she's OK now. She was so joyful and happy.
When she saw one of her son, the housekeeper went with her and they stayed overnight in a hotel. And the hotel said, the next morning, Mary was crying. Why are you crying? My children, my children. The housekeeper said, well, you'll be fine with the children. The housekeeper didn't know she was saying good-bye to her children.
BURNETT: And it's such a tragic tale. I do want to share what the Richardson family has responded. Obviously, just read this to you. They said, "Mary's unconditional love for her children and unwavering support of so many people she held close to her heart are lasting legacies of her life. Our hearts are breaking for what her children continue to witness. We hoped Mary could rest in peace."
And then they also speak about the affidavit. "The affidavit which Mary repudiated at the time is full of vindictive lies. The false claim that Mary suffered from borderline personality disorder is an insult with those who struggle with the serious mental illness. There will be a time and a place for the true facts to come out."
That is obviously from Richardson family. What's your response to that? LEAMER: About borderline personality disorder, this is one of the keys to the whole article. When we were editing at Friday evening, Tina Brown was very worried, because we didn't have any source --
BURNETT: The editor of "The Daily Beast" --
LEAMER: The editor, I'm sorry, the editor of "The Daily Beast" and "Newsweek". She was worried because I didn't have an on-the- record source, because psychiatrist and her therapists, they're not allowed to speak about their patients. I knew that Dr. Hancun (ph), who is a therapist in New York, I knew from the affidavit she had been the one who diagnosed this.
I talked to Dr. Gunderson (ph) who is the leading authority in the world on BPD. But he wasn't going to say it on the record. I called him and great earnest and I said, I know, I understand the ethics on this. Isn't there a higher reality here? If you go on the record this magazine is going to say definitely she had this disease, and millions of people across America next week are going to read about this and for the first time learn about this.
This disease, 6 percent of Americans suffer from this. If you look at the history of this, people think Princess Diana may have suffered this or Marilyn Monroe.
The family -- I don't know why they don't -- I don't know why they say this. It's just simply not true. I talked with four or five psychiatrists --
BURNETT: And they supported this view?
LEAMER: They said the same thing. There's nothing shameful about this. If she had died of cancer, they wouldn't be out here saying, oh, she didn't have cancer.
There's nothing wrong with having a mental disability like this. It's just the way it is.
BURNETT: All right. Laurence Leamer, thank you very many. You can read his full report based on this 45 hours of interviews and the affidavit in "Newsweek."
Well, is the British prime minister an unfit father? We have a very strong opinion bout this. I'll tell you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Elected officials are always trying to find, like the rest of us, a work/home balance. Make time for voters but make time for your family. Sometimes they're successful and sometimes they aren't.
A good example is David Cameron, the British prime minister. He's busy running the government but he still makes time to go to the pub with his wife and kids for lunch on Sundays. They have a nice meal, catch up. He has a few really young kids. It works good -- until it didn't a few months ago.
Today, David Cameron confirmed that during one of the Sunday excursions he and his wife accidentally left their 8-year-old daughter at the pub. Not surprisingly, the press jumped all over it with articles and editorials saying he forgot, lost, or even worse, abandoned his daughter at the bar. We think that's really unfair.
According to the reports, for security reason, the prime minister and his wife always take separate cars. He thought his wife had the kid. She thought he had the daughter. You get it. That's the kind of thing that can happen to anyone.
And according to officials, the child was only there for about 15 minutes hanging out with the staff, apparently even trying to help work behind the bar. Sounds like pretty good parenting and pretty good work ethic for an 8-year-old to us.
David Cameron's working hard to make time for his family when a lot of people don't. So, rather than attack him, we commend him for trying. For having a sense of humor, personality and, frankly, it sounds like, a pretty solid family life.
Let us know what you think about P.M.'s daughter and on other stories on Twitter and Facebook. See you tomorrow at 7:00.
Anderson starts now.
