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Erin Burnett Outfront
Boston Device Similar In Design To Al Qaeda Magazine; Boston Suspect Transferred To Prison Hospital; Chechnya May Hold Clues In Bombing; Russia Arrests 140 People In Extremist Raid; Muslim Frustration After Boston Bombings
Aired April 26, 2013 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: OUTFRONT next, the latest on the investigation into the Boston marathon bombings. On this Friday night, what we have just learned about how the two suspected bombers learned to make the deadly devices.
Plus, the mother of the suspects has now left Dagestan. Where is she going? What do investigators want to talk about so much with her?
We have new information about the wife of Tamerlan Tsarnaev. We have new video of her coming out of hiding today. First time, we've seen her in days. Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good Friday evening, everyone. I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, new developments in the Boston terror investigation. A U.S. official tells CNN that one of the explosive devices found at last week's gunfight between police and the Boston bombing suspects is similar in design to one outlined in a magazine.
This magazine to be specific, it's called "Inspire." It's the al Qaeda magazine. It's online. This is the summer edition from 2010, which details how to make a metal elbow pipe wrapped in black tape, similar to what was found on the suspects.
Now I have a copy of this magazine. It's 67 pages long and the section here that we're talking about is called "Make A Bomb In The Kitchen Of Your Mom," by the al Qaeda chef, the A.Q. chef. There are pictures and how tos.
If this weren't real life and what they were trying to do, it would almost be farcical. It's hard to imagine. If this is in fact the guide that the suspects use, they had eight full pages of details, as I said, to work with.
Also today, investigators towed away the boat where the bombing suspect was found hiding the night he was taken into custody. Investigators are also now apparently searching a landfill in New Bedford, Massachusetts.
They think that in that they may find the laptop that belonged to Dzhokhar Tsarnaev as he tried to quickly get rid of it. There may be crucial information and details about who he contacted, maybe what web sites the brothers were visiting. We have everything covered on this ongoing story tonight. Jason Carroll is OUTFRONT Federal Medical Center Devens where Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is being held. Jake Tapper and Brian Todd are both in Boston.
In Rhode Island, Erin McPike has new video today of Tamerlan Tsarnaev's wife. Nick Paton Walsh is in Dagestan and in London tonight, Dan Rivers with an OUTFRONT investigation on how terror groups are using social media to recruit new members, as I said, this magazine only available online.
First, I want to go to Jason Carroll who is outside Federal Medical Center in Devens. That's where Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was transferred very early this morning. I believe 3:00 a.m. It's about 40 miles northwest of the Boston area hospital where he had been held. Jason, what do you know about his condition right now?
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what I can tell you is this -- his condition has improved. I mean, I think you remember on Monday when he was told about the charges that he was facing at his bedside. He was just able to nod.
When asked if he could afford an attorney, he said no. Well, his condition has stabilized much more since then. He's able to sit up, able to communicate more than he was on Monday.
His condition has stabilized so much that U.S. Marshals were able to handcuff him, bring him here to this facility where he went through an intake screening process. That happened very early this morning. It's a step-by-step process, Erin.
The first part of that process is when the inmate, Tsarnaev, was strip searched. After that, he went through a medical screening, then a psychological screening, the psychological screening to determine whether or not he wanted to harm himself.
Also, he was fingerprinted. A DNA sample was taken. A photograph was also taken. That, all of that material, was then turned over to the FBI. I'm told that that whole process took about an hour, very early this morning, before he was then transferred to his cell.
BURNETT: Jason, I know a lot of people have questions. Obviously part of the reason that he left the hospital, he was ready. But also people -- in the suspected attempted killing were also in the hospital. Those families wanted him gone. What are the conditions like at the facility where you are and in the room in which he's being held, solitary confinement? I mean, how does it work?
CARROLL: Well, this particular facility can handle about 1,000 inmates. But because Tsarnaev is considered a high-risk inmate, he is then taken to a restricted area of the facility that can only house a maximum of about 30 inmates. He is in a single cell.
It has a steel door with a slot through it that food can be put through it. It's a very basic cell, I'm told by a spokesperson here. Basically, he's got a sink in there, Erin, a toilet in there, as well. And again, it is a single cell that he is being held in.
BURNETT: All right, thank you very much. Appreciate your time tonight, Jason. So now let's get to Dagestan where Nick Paton Walsh is standing by. Nick, you've been traveling. You traveled to the area in Chechnya where the Tsarnaev family used to live. You met some of their relatives. What were you able to gather in terms of clues as to why the brothers may have committed these horrible crimes?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: One of the more interesting things the brothers' aunt said to me when we spoke to her earlier this week was that when they were in their formative years, particularly Tamerlan around 11, the family had gone back to Chechnya trying to make a life there.
They had to flee ahead of the beginning of the second Chechnyan war in the late '90s. Describing how they must have left before bombing took out the street they lived in. We went to the ruins of the house where his father grew up and spoke to his great uncle, Tamerlan's great uncle, who recalled seeing him earlier last year.
Described a man of devout faith and said he didn't think it had anything to do with what happened in Boston, but a clear link, perhaps. Something that could have happened in Tamerlan's formative years that may have subsequently shaped his ideology -- Erin.
BURNETT: Everyone desperately wants to know these answers. Today, I know you also learned that the parents have left Dagestan, where they lived, where you are tonight. Do you have any idea where they've gone and whether there are still plans for them to come to the United States as I know they were saying they were going to do immediately?
WALSH: Absolutely. I spoke to the mother this morning. I think the key priority was privacy, getting away from the media and perhaps investigators' questions here and of course, the health of also the father. That slipped in the last 24 hours.
He was supposed to be traveling to the U.S. round about now. That is put off until his health improves. To get that priority they've left Dagestan, gone to somewhere else in Russia, didn't want to disclose where, but at this point, health being their focus -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right, Nick, just one final quick question. There was a major crackdown, I know, on individuals connected to Islamic extremist organizations in Russia today. A 140 people I believe arrested, if I have my numbers right. What happened? That's a sting like we've never seen in this country.
WALSH: This is a huge effort by the Russian security services, the FSB on a religious group on the outskirts of Moscow. Now this group, not one that's been in the spotlight previously in accusations of connections to radicalism in the past, there's no point, no connection at this point being advertised to the Boston bombings.
But I should point out from seeing how the security services work. They may have seized on the global spotlight of the Boston bombings to perhaps crack down on a group -- group they've been wanting to make a move on for a while.
We haven't seen these numbers before, given these were lone wolves operating, perhaps used this to try and pre-empt accusations they've not been doing enough against radicals in their midst -- Erin.
BURNETT: Nick, thank you very much, reporting live from Dagestan tonight.
Now Republican Congressman Ed Royce is the chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee and he joins me now. I want to start, Chairman, by asking you about what our Nick Paton Walsh was just reporting on 140 people today detained, arrested in Russia.
And it seems that we focus so much on the threat from al Qaeda in this country for obvious reasons. But we rarely talk about terror affecting the United States that comes from Chechnya, that comes from Russia. Have U.S. intelligence agencies been looking hard enough from terror threats in that region?
REPRESENTATIVE ED ROYCE, CHAIRMAN, FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE: Well, we have been looking, and a lot of our information, of course, comes from the Russians who are concerned about people of interest coming back to the -- to Russia in order to carry out these types of attacks.
In particular, remember the Russian population has gone through about a dozen major attacks from al Qaeda-linked Chechnyan organizations. And in particular, if we remember, the Moscow subway bombing, the bombing of the school, the bombing of the theatre, I mean, these are ongoing events.
Not just in Russia, by the way, but the Chechnyans have an idea for a wider caliphate, a caliphate that would include all of southern Russia but also Afghanistan, Pakistan. So they're involved in operations in those countries, as well, both hitting our soldiers, hitting Pakistani units.
And so as a consequence of this Jihadist activity, there is a great deal of interest, there was, in these two young men -- or at least from the Russian perspective, the mother and the oldest son. They were concerned that both would return to Russia and might carry out activities there.
BURNETT: And let me ask but that because obviously when they were worried about that, they warned the FBI and then the CIA when the FBI didn't find anything derogatory. At that time though, U.S. intelligence officials asked for information, which the Russians, according to our understanding, did not subsequently provide. Is Russia properly sharing information with the United States? And this has to be a two-way street if it happens. I mean, do we share with them?
ROYCE: I think we're going to see after this more cross sharing of information. I know two legislators from Dagestan, both of them physicians. Russians who have told me, shared with me both when I saw them in Moscow some years ago and on their trip here to the United States about the intensity of these campaigns, these Jihadist campaigns and the threat that it -- that it's expanding across the region. I think we're going to see more cooperation.
BURNETT: I know today you had a hearing on the role of Chechnya in terror, as you mentioned. The mother of the two brothers was added to the TIDES, the Terrorists Identities Data Mark Environment Database back in 2001. It's one of several we have to track potential terrorism.
At the same time that her son, Tamerlan's name was added to that, as you're probably aware, she has told CNN this week the bombings were fake, that the blood was paint. And I just ask you this -- female terrorists are not unknown in Chechnya.
You know, the "Black Widows" was a well-known group. As you're aware, they were involved in the 2002 Moscow theatre siege with 115 hostages and the horrible, the Beslan School attack in which 334 people were killed including many children. Is it possible she knew what her sons were doing?
ROYCE: This we don't know, but as of today she's been added -- we here as a person of interest in this investigation. We do know that in the past she denied reportedly that Osama Bin Laden was involved in the World Trade Center bombing.
She defended his innocence in that and made the argument that that was something the United States had -- had perpetrated upon itself in order to blame Bin Laden. I think it's clear. The other point is the particular mosque in southern Russia that this family frequented, that the oldest son was attending.
Out of that mosque, you have a whole series of radicalized Jihadists who at one time or another have gone through the region, received obviously some encouragement. It is a Jihadist ideology that is preached there.
And so it will be interesting trying to get the answers to this. I am -- I am concerned at the fact that after only 16 hours of -- and not enough of that 16 hours, by the way, was available for questioning.
BURNETT: Right. I understand he wasn't -- right, right.
ROYCE: They are quite concerned about that because they were trying to get other leads out of this. And now of course, the individuals in custody and -- individual's in custody, and he's no longer talking.
BURNETT: All right, well, thank you very much, Chairman Royce. We appreciate you're taking the time confirming that the Tsarnaev brothers' mother is a person of interest in the investigation. There are serious questions as to how many people may have been involved or may have been aware. We have more of that later on this hour.
Also OUTFRONT, a debate, you know, some Muslims say that Americans only see terrorism when Islamic radicals are involved. So was the Sandy Hook shooting terrorism, too, or is that just totally bogus? Plus, what will happen to the Tsarnaev brothers' inner circle? What do investigators plan for the wife of Tamerlan, the mysterious Misha and the friends of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev who are still being detained?
And later, what did investigators find wedged between two buildings near ground zero? You may not be able to tell what's in that picture, but you will when we describe it, a shocking and heart wrenching discovery.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Tonight as investigators dig deeper into what motivated the brothers suspected of bombing the Boston marathon. That city's Muslim community is also trying to figure out why Tamerlan Tsarnaev, a man that they knew, drifted toward radical Islam.
The scenario is something Muslim communities in America know all too well. They've been down this path after 9/11 and the Fort Hood shootings. OUTFRONT tonight, two men who have written on this very topic, Dean Obeidallah, a former practicing attorney and political comedian, and our contributor, Reihan Salam.
And both of you, of course, when we're talking about Muslims in America, I mean, you're Muslims in America, you speak to this a personal way. Dean, you say that there is a difference in how Americans react when there's a killing by a radical Muslim or let's just say, for example, Adam Lanza in Newtown?
DEAN OBEIDALLAH, POLITICAL COMEDIAN: Sure, there is. First of all, I want to say something that I think a lot of Americans have not heard. The fact, I'm Muslim and I despise these terrorists. To me, they're not Muslims, frankly, they're murderers.
The same way Christians would say someone who kills an abortion doctor is not a true Christian, they're a murderer. It's the same thing. I say that as a simple message, but many Americans have not heard it frankly. I'm finding out more and more.
But secondly, I think there is a difference. If someone is a random person who kills someone at Newtown, Aurora, we give the benefit of the doubt that they're just crazy. But if you're a Muslim, it's instantly a plot.
Somehow it reflects on our faith. You can't be a crazy Muslim. If you're a Muslim, you have a plot. You are a Jihadi. That's what you're doing. We have to denounce this. Make it clear that these people don't speak for us.
They don't represent us. They're not part of our community. We have to do whatever we can to fight the radicals as teeny a percent as they are in the community.
BURNETT: All right, interesting point. But you know, Reihan, Anders Sullivan wrote pretty eloquently about this and said this crime is different than Sandy Hook or Newtown or these other situations. He wrote this, "to dismiss the overwhelmingly religiously motivated, a trail that includes a rant against his own imam for honoring Martin Luther King Jr. because he was not a Muslim, is to be blind to an almost textbook case of Jihadist radicalization."
I mean, is religious motivation what makes this different? You know, Fort Hood, that was, yes, it was done by a gun, but it was done for religiously motivated reasons by a guy who was motivated by Anwar Al-Awlaki.
I mean, it's not the same as someone as mentally ill, if it's religiously motivated, maybe ill in one way, but it is different. We must acknowledge, right, that it happens to come from this religion.
REIHAN SALAM, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes. I think that when you look at different communities, you always have a distribution. You always have some people at the edge of that community who might be inclined toward violence.
The problem is that among Muslims, you know, that slice of the population has been somewhat more likely, it seems, to turn toward violence that is inspired by religion that is connected to these larger international transnational causes.
For example, you have Buddhists, you have Hindus, you have Christians, all manner of religious beliefs where you have people who turn violent.
BURNETT: The IRA, Catholic --
SALAM: They tend not to connect it to a transnational cause, right? And so I think that when you look at the Tsarnaev brothers, it appears that they were motivated by this transnational cause. Now it was also home grown, right. So we don't know for sure, but it doesn't look as though they were embedded in some larger terror network.
There's self-radicalization that took place. One thing I find very interesting about the Tsarnaev brothers is the younger brother, Dzhokhar, on his Twitter feed mentioned at one point that when he goes to the mosque, people often ask him if he's a convert or they assume that he's an Algerian.
What this told me is this is actually not a very thick, tight knight community. Think about the parish priest. They know more about you. They have a relationship with you. This was a place where these brothers went to worship, but there wasn't a community looking out for them and I think that could be part of the problem.
BURNETT: That's significant when you talk about what the community can do. Dean, to your point, you made the point so well. But this was an article in the "Daily Beast" that said something a little bit different. I want to get your response to it.
She said," to the address this issue we have to overcome our collective tendency to engage in denials, demonization, and deflection when the "I" word, Islam, emerges in conversations about these violent incidents."
She said she took heat for saying that. But is she right that the Muslim community is in denial you? Say, look, most Muslims don't believe in this. That's true, but if it's coming from the community, what do you do about it?
OBEIDALLAH: Right. There may have been denial before 9/11, there's not anymore. That's not just me saying that. There are facts. Several of the last ten Islamic plots with al Qaeda turned in and thwarted by Muslim Americans --
BURNETT: And Canada thwarted by the Muslim community --
OBEIDALLAH: Right, and Sheriff Lee Baca from L.A. County before Congress. Ray Kelly, the New York police commissioner on CNN Sunday saying he has a great working relationship. We don't have an allegation of imams preaching violence.
In this mosque, they were preaching Martin Luther King and nonviolence. Who defines Islam, that is the question. Is it going to be me, is it going to be you, or the terrorists, the average Muslim living their life or congressman, judges, lawyers, deli workers, cabs -- to me that's what Muslims are in America, struggling to pay their bills and make it like the rest of us.
BURNETT: All right, well, thank you both very much, we appreciate it.
OUTFRONT next, has Twitter become the new recruiting tool for terrorists, the dangerous people that are on line right now and whether they're actually being monitored by anybody?
Later, the man who saw suspect number one before a bomb blew away his legs. The hero of this photo speaks out for the first time.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Terrorists and Twitter. We all know the online forum is a place where you can follow the musings of anybody in 140 characters or less, there are some, frankly, disgusting and awful people on Twitter.
The terror groups are increasingly using it. The question is whether twitter is helping self-radicalized people like the suspected Boston bombers. It's a crucial question. And Dan Rivers has an OUTFRONT investigation tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN RIVERS, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Away from the physical battlefield, terrorists are creating a virtual one on Twitter to spread their ideology. Abu Baraa follows dozens of extremist on Twitter, reinforcing his own hard line politics, which have already seen him jailed for urging the murder of U.S. troops in Iraq.
ABU BARAA, TWITTER USER: The reasons why people are drawn to these new Twitter channels is because there is an opportunity to hear the other side of the argument. There's no doubt the ideas of the al Qaeda or other organizations are on the same thinking, are spreading quickly and very rapidly.
RIVERS: Based around Mali, al Qaeda has gained 5,500,000 Twitter followers in less than a month. And in Syria there's a massive Twitter presence of more than 50,000 followers. Down here in Somalia, Al Shabaab, which the U.S. describes as a terrorist organization, was quick to react to the Boston bombings on Twitter.
The day after the attack, it tweeted, "don't you just hate it when you can't make it to the finish line?" adding, "The casualties are just a tiny fraction of what U.S. soldiers inflict upon millions of innocent Muslims across the globe on a daily basis."
The degree of terrorist training received by the Tsarnaev brothers is still being investigated. But experts say if they self- radicalized online at home, they wouldn't be the first.
PETER NEUMANN, TERROR EXPERT: It's kind of a misnomer to call them lone wolves because even though they are physically alone, of course, they're interacting with other people online.
RIVERS: Abu Baraa says that online army of extremists is growing.
BARAA: People are being radicalized through their own research and really seeing the oppression as something that needs to be fought and opposed. And even to seek retaliation.
RIVERS: Meaning, they don't have to travel to camps like these and risk meeting the extremists face to face. Dan Rivers, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: Still OUTFRONT, the man who first identified the suspected bomber and was immortalize inside photo. For the first time, you'll hear him talk about the bombing from point blank range.
Up next, new video of the woman who married a suspected terrorist who lived in a tiny apartment with him while he made the bombs. Did she know anything?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: He's the hero survivor who gave the FBI one of its first lead. Jeff Bauman lost both of his legs in the bombing. But still at that moment, which is just impossible to imagine, he had the presence of mind to give investigators a detailed description of Tamerlan Tsarnaev. The information helped the FBI zero in on the bombing suspects.
And now, Bauman is speaking out for the first time. Jake Tapper is OUTFRONT with the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR/CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This haunting image of Jeff Bauman has become one of the iconic images of the April 15 terrorist attacks.
GERRY CALLAHAN, WEEI: Are you thinking at that point you're going to make it?
JEFF BAUMAN, BOMBING VICTIM: Not really. You know, actually when Carlos picked me up and threw me into the wheelchair, then I was, like, all right, maybe I am going to make it, but before that, no way. I thought I was done.
TAPPER: The 27-year-old Bauman recently shared what was going through his mind at that moment with local radio station WEEI.
JOHN DENNIS, WEEI: Did you see what had happened to you? Were you aware of what had happened?
BAUMAN: Yes, yes. Yes. I kind of just -- I don't know. I just toughed it up at that point, you know? Yes.
I mean, I was definitely hurting. But I was sad.
DENNIS: Right.
BAUMAN: I was -- that someone would actually do that.
TAPPER: Bauman's legs were shredded, but his memory remained pristine. And he was ones of the first ones to describe Tamerlan Tsarnaev to law enforcement.
BAUMAN: Well, I was with my girlfriend's roommates and we were having a great time. We were watching the runners. Everyone was having a great time. And just that one guy, you know, he didn't look like he was having a good time.
So, he was right next to me at that point. And he had a bag and he had his glasses. He had kind of like a leather like sweatshirt type of deal. And, you know, it is warm out. He's just an odd guy. He just struck me odd. And that's what I remember of him.
And then next thing you know, I hear fireworks and I'm on the ground, you know?
I was still conscious when I was being transported from the blast site to the hospital. And the whole time I was -- when I was in the hospital, I was giving descriptions of the guy, the first guy, the guy with the hat and the glasses, the aviators and the 5:00 shadow.
TAPPER: So, what did he think when he heard that Tamerlan Tsarnaev had been killed?
CALLAHAN: What about when you found out that the guy you saw was run over, literally, by his brother?
BAUMAN: Yes. What I thought was, he's dead and I'm still here, you know?
TAPPER: Still here and already thinking of others. Here he is giving an 18th birthday present to Sydney Corcoran, also wounded in the hospital.
DENNIS: You don't sound angry. You don't sound pissed off. Can I ask you what your feelings are about the men who did this to you and so many other people?
BAUMAN: Yes, I'm pissed obviously.
DENNIS: Yes.
BAUMAN: But, I mean, it's in the past, you know? You can only look forward. I had a lot to live for before, and I got a lot to live for now.
TAPPER: Jake Tapper, CNN, Boston.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: Hard to watch.
The widow of Tamerlan Tsarnaev today was seen in the open. And that was obviously very unusual. It was the first time we've actually seen Katherine Russell in days. She left her parents' house in Kingstown, Rhode Island, with her lawyer, as you see her in there in the hijab. She's been keeping a low profile. Her attorney says she's assisting in the investigation, but it's unclear how cooperative she's being with the FBI.
Erin McPike is in Providence tonight, outside Russell's attorney's office with the latest.
And, Erin, where did she go today, and what was she doing? I know you have been sitting there trying to catch sight of her. This obviously was a significant thing.
ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was. Well, Erin, first, she met with her attorneys inside her parents' house for a little bit. And then they came here to her attorney's office where they met for about 90 minutes.
Now, when they arrived, I did get to ask what was going on and how she was doing. She, of course, did not answer. But I did get a chance to look her in the eye and more than anything, she looked a little bewildered, Erin.
BURNETT: Bewildered? What an interesting word, because I know so much of her is a mystery. Erin, I know her family lives in a small community where you spent the past few days. How have they been reacting to all this attention? And do they have any idea what's next, how well they may have known her?
MCPIKE: Well, here in this community, they're clamming up. And part of the reason for that, Erin, is because the school district where Katie graduated has strongly discouraged anyone in the community from speaking out. So they're not very interested in talking to the media. Now, we do know that her attorneys here will be working in the office here behind me all weekend. And the community doesn't remember -- they remember Katie, but they don't have much to say about her. She hasn't lived here in the last six years or so.
But the FBI does remain very interested in her, Erin.
BURNETT: Certainly they do. Thank you very much. Erin McPike, reporting live from Rhode Island tonight.
And as investigators dig deeper into the pasts of Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, some of the most important information could come from those who knew them best. Obviously, as Erin was talking about, Tamerlan Tsarnaev's widow, Katherine Russell; the elusive Misha, who supposedly was an inspiration towards a more radical version of Islam for the older brother. And even two men from Kazakhstan who were detained last week on visa violations and who are unusually still being held in custody could turn out to be key to the case.
OUTFRONT tonight, Tim Clemente, a former FBI agent on counterterrorism who worked the investigations into the African embassy bombings and the USS Cole, and Phil Mudd, former CIA deputy director of counterterrorism and senior intelligence adviser to the FBI.
All right. Between the two of you, knowing more than anybody else. We're glad to have you tonight. Look, we saw Tamerlan Tsarnaev's wife leave the house, her parents' home for the first time in several days today. She could be the closest link there is to the Tsarnaev brothers, Phil.
Of course, she lived in a very small apartment with them while they were planning this and doing this. It's unclear whether she knew anything at all.
Do you think that there's a way that she wouldn't have known anything at all? And if so, would she still be valuable to authorities?
PHIL MUDD, FORMER CIA DEPUTY DIR. OF COUNTERTERRORISM: She'd be invaluable. First, you got to ask the question of whether she knew about operations or ideology, that is mindset. My guess is she might have known that they were going down a path she didn't understand. Whether she knew about the operation, I would guess not. Most of the families in these situations don't know.
BURNETT: All right. That makes more sense to you.
Tim, let me ask, you know, investigators -- according to law enforcement officials, investigators also working with law enforcement overseas to try to track down this person, Misha. They say that there's movement, according to sources that we have at CNN, they're making progress. It seems like he was important here. But that maybe Tamerlan Tsarnaev had turned away from him. But it's interesting that there's somebody we don't know who's central to all of this.
What's the best case scenario of what they get out of Misha if they find him?
TIM CLEMENTE, FORMER COUNTERTERRORISM FBI AGENT: They can find out, first of all, the radicalization process, because what's important here is the FBI's mandate is to get what we call left of the boom -- the boom being a terrorist act, the bombing, or anything else.
And right now, we're investigating right of the boom, after the fact. So, in order to move left of that next bombing, we need to find out if this guy was the one that really pushed the older brother and possibly the younger brother to that radical edge, the precipice. And if so, is he doing it with other people? Is he doing it here, is he doing it overseas? Either way, we need get to him to find out if he's part of a greater structure that may be promoting this cause to individuals around the world.
BURNETT: Tim, Mike Rogers, Representative Mike Rogers, says there's going to be more arrests. Do you agree?
CLEMENTE: I do, yes.
BURNETT: All right.
CLEMENTE: There was apparently a support structure of some kind, Erin, that had to be used. Whether it was emotional and spiritual support or whether it was physical support, as far as gaining the parts of that bomb and the capability to build it.
BURNETT: So you believe there are other people who knew and who were involved?
CLEMENTE: Not necessarily that might have been part of the plot itself for this attack, but part of helping these guys get to the point of not just being radicalized, but being violent.
BURNETT: And, Phil, you know, there are also two foreign students I want to ask you about, because it's very unusual they're being detained this long, is our understanding. They've been detained on visa violations, violating their student visas, which apparently they were there. These guys were friends with the younger brother who's now in custody, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. They're from Kazakhstan. One of them apparently was sharing a cell phone with the younger brother.
At this point, they're saying if they were linked to the bombings. But I'm just wondering, you know, these were the guys apparently who had the "terrorista one" license plates.
Do you think that could have been involved?
MUDD: My guess is no, but in this situation, you can't make a guess.
BURNETT: Right.
MUDD: You've got to assume that there's a support structure and prove the negative. So I look at these guys, they probably knew that their friends were going south somewhere. In other words, their friends were going on a path that was disturbing. Whether they knew that there was going to be an attack on the marathon, I doubt it. But you can't assume that.
BURNETT: Right. I mean, what about the license plate? I mean, you know, there was this picture of Dzhokhar with this car that a license plate, "terrorista one". I mean, that seems absurd that anyone would have any kind of a license plate, unless it was someone that Joe Biden referred as perverted, cowardly, knock-off jihadi. If you were a terrorist, why would you have such a thing? But maybe we should be asking this question, maybe the new type of terrorist we're seeing would.
MUDD: It doesn't seem -- I guess from a past life at CIA and the FBI, it doesn't seem absurd to me. There's a jihadi cool, that is -- it's cool to be associated with these guys. It doesn't necessarily mean you believe in what they do. But it's kind of -- a sot of Levi's and Coca-Cola. It's part of the culture.
BURNETT: Tim, what do you think the new person, type of person -- how strong this web could be? When you say that they think there could be more arrests, how many people do you right wing involved in this support structure? Again, I know had their is total speculation, but everyone is out in this, were there just two guys, or were there 20, who?
MUDD: Well, you know, when we talk about the support structure -- I mean, you're looking at an individual. Whether or not these two are aligned with al Qaeda really isn't important. It's the ideology.
And then even those that hold that ideology, there's a great chasm between being radicalized and committing violence in the name of radical Islam. So that individuals that are to the left of that chasm that have not committed an act of violence, unfortunately, it's very hard to investigate them, to track them, to surveil them because they're not committing any crimes.
So if there's a person out there, if there's a group of individuals out there that are saying, look, brothers, you can't just hold this ideology. Islam, radical Islam, Salifism, requires that you act. And these acts are what people push them to do, then those people are a support structure whether or not they said go after the Boston marathon. Whether or not they said, "use this type of device," they're still pushing these individuals into violence. And that's very important to find them and prevent further acts.
BURNETT: Tim, Phil, thank you very much.
And still OUTFRONT on this Friday, what was it like to come face to face with suspected terrorists, have them tell you they were going kill you, and escape with your life? One man's personal story is next.
And for 11 years, this piece of metal went unnoticed by anyone right by Ground Zero. No one realized it was a tragic piece of history. That story is next.
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BURNETT: In New York today, a piece of airplane landing gear apparently from one of the planes that struck the World Trade Center towers on September 11th, 2001, was found wedged between two buildings. You can see it there with that rope part of it. The NYPD says the part includes a clearly visible Boeing ID number. Now it was found behind 51 Park Place, which is site of a planned Islamic community center near Ground Zero. New York City police commissioner Ray Kelly said authorities are trying to figure out exactly how that part got there.
Well, tonight we are learning more about the 90 minutes of sheer terror that a Boston man says he went through after he was carjacked by Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. The 26-year-old who only wants to be identified as Danny says he was trapped in his car with the bombing suspects, fearing he would be killed at any moment. Our Brian Todd is out front with the details about Danny's kidnapping and how his escape happened.
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BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is the area where the carjacking began more than a week ago Thursday night, along the Brighton Avenue area outside downtown Boston, just along this strip. It began with suspect Tamerlan Tsarnaev knocking on the window of the victim's car and demanding a ride. It played out for about 90 minutes and left the victim shaking.
(voice-over): Tamerlan Tsarnaev, according to the victim, wielded a silver handgun when he climbed into the black Mercedes SUV. The suspect's first words --
PROF. JAMES FOX, ADVISER TO CARJACKING VICTIM: Said, did you hear about the bombing, the marathon bombing? Danny said, "I did." He said, "Well, that's me. I did that, and I just killed a Cambridge cop."
TODD: Professor James Fox, a criminologist at Northeastern University, has counseled the victim and knows every detail of the story. The victim, a Chinese national, did not want on camera, would only agree to be referred to by his American nickname, Danny. He gave a description of the carjacking to the "Boston Globe" which Professor Fox confirmed to CNN.
The victim said he pulled off to the curb Tamerlan in the passenger seat, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was following in another vehicle. It was hard to drive at first.
FOX: Early on in the drive, Danny was obviously quite nervous and driving somewhat erratically because of his nerves. And Tamerlan says, "Oh, relax, calm, drive slowly."
TODD: They drove from Brighton to Watertown to Cambridge, about 90 minutes in all. We retraced the route. At one point, Professor Fox says the two vehicles pulled over. The brothers got out, unloaded objects from Dzhokhar's vehicle into the victim's trunk.
(on camera): What does he think it is?
FOX: He thinks it's luggage. Danny didn't want to look back.
TODD (voice-over): They ditched Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's car, all three were now Danny's vehicle.
FOX: At that point, he realized that, boy, he may not live to see another day.
TODD: Tamerlan was then driving, the victim in the passenger seat, Dzhokhar in back. They stopped at an ATM in Watertown, withdrew money with Danny's card.
Professor Fox says Danny heard them speaking in their native language, could only make out the word "Manhattan" in English, but that's not all.
(on camera): In the car, the three are talking like normal guys, right?
FOX: Exactly. Well, they had over 90 minutes to spend with each other. They were talking about ordinary things. What kind of phone do you have, do you have a CD player in the car. There was this kind of a relationship forming which eventually aided Danny.
TODD (voice-over): But at one point, Danny's phone buzzed with two texts, then rang twice.
FOX: Danny answers it. Tamerlan says don't say a word in Chinese, because if you do, I'll kill you. So his friend's speaking Chinese over the phone but Danny answers in English, I'm going to sleep elsewhere tonight. And when he finally hung up, Tamerlan said, good boy, you did it well.
TODD (on camera): Professor Fox says the victim's brief window for escape came at this Shell station. It was cash only at the time. So, he says Dzhokhar Tsarnaev went in to pay cash for the gas. At that point, Tamerlan Tsarnaev was briefly fumbling around with his personal GPS system. He says Tamerlan then set the gun down temporarily inside the door pocket.
FOX: In one motion, Danny undid his seat belt, opened the door and ran to the rear of the car, across the street to the mobile station.
TODD: How did Tamerlan Tsarnaev react?
FOX: Tamerlan tried to grab him, missed, swore. That was it.
TODD: Didn't fire?
FOX: Didn't fire. Well, it would have been difficult to fire because Danny, by this time, was to the rear of the car and it would have been difficult for him to sort of fire through the back window. TODD (voice-over): At the mobile station, the victim got an employee to call 911. The Tsarnaev brothers took off. The encounter with police in Watertown came soon after, when Tamerlan was killed. Professor Fox says given the information the brothers planned an attack in New York --
FOX: Were it not for his action, his behavior, his composure, his wits about him, who knows what would have happened.
TODD (on camera): But Professor Fox says the victim doesn't consider himself a hero and is still nervous, because he knows he may well have to recount the entire episode in court if and when Dzhokhar Tsarnaev goes to trial -- Erin.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: Brian, thank you.
And now, I want to check in with Anderson Cooper with a look at what's coming up next on "A.C. 360."
Hey, Anderson.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, Erin. Yes. Remarkable story by that guy Danny.
We have new developments on the Boston marathon bombings. We're going to bring that to you on "360." CNN's Susan Candiotti with late reporting on how the brothers allegedly made the explosive devices and why authorities are combing through that Boston landfill. What they're looking for.
Also, new details from Susan on the shadowy figure known only as Misha who reportedly pushed the suspects towards radical Islam. A lot to cover.
Plus, how to keep a city safe. We're going to take a rare look at the extensive and sometimes controversial measures that New York City uses to keep residents and visitors safe. Mary Snow has that.
Also, my interview with one of the victims of the blast, Heather Abbott. A remarkable young woman had to make a decision many of us can't even comprehend whether or not to keep her foot which was badly mangled by the second explosion. She is one of the many courageous, inspiring people that I have spoken with here in Boston over the last two weeks or so. That conversation ahead tonight, Erin, on "360."
BURNETT: All right. Anderson, we'll see you in just a few moments.
And still OUTFRONT, one of the top officials in Iran says the U.S. and Israel are bluffing. That's next.
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BURNETT: And now to our continuing coverage of the nuclear standoff with Iran. Tough economic sanctions on the country, sanctions that the U.S. says are having a significant impact, are hurting. But Tehran does not seem to be bowing to the pressure.
I spoke to Seyed Shamseddin Hosseini, Iran's economic affairs and finance minister, and asked him about the effect the sanctions are having on Iran.
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SEYED SHAMSEDDIN HOSSEINI, IRAN'S ECONOMIC AFFAIRS AND FINANCE MINISTER (through translator): I believe that the sanctions, the assessment of the effect of the sanctions on the Iranian economy are exaggerated.
BURNETT: There was a recent report in the "Financial Times" that was quoting a taxi driver in Tehran. And he said going to the meat store now is like going to the jewelry store, that his income has dropped in half because of the drop in Iran's currency, because of the sanctions. As you know, there are a lot of reports about shortages of meat and fruit and prices surging. What makes you so confident?
HOSSEINI: When these sanctions took place, we were providing for 60 percent of the overall government budget needs through oil exports, oil related revenue. We are moving away from a reliance on the petrol dollar revenues. I give you an example of the budget, but I will give you an example about foreign trade.
Last year, our imports decreased by about 14 percent, but in our import forecast, we were able to leave room for the basic needs when it comes to medical equipment, pharmaceutical drugs and other basic high priority needs, so there was a total reform. For example, we no longer see a need to import furniture from the outside. We have indigenous industries taking the place of those imports but it's interesting that our oil exports have decreased but we've seen an increase overall of 20 percent in the agricultural sector export and industrial sector exports.
Today, after implementation of the targeted sanctions program, any Iranian citizen, every member of a household of Iran who requests such assistance receives that cash assistance which goes towards satisfying at the very least the foodstuff and the food expenditure needs of the lower classes and the lower middle classes.
BURNETT: The United States, our secretary of defense, as you know, was in Tel Aviv earlier this week to announce a big agreement to sell Israel more weapons, more American weapons, advanced missiles, refueling planes were on the list of weapons.
Obviously, some are saying these could be used in a possible strike against Iran. The defense minister in Israel said, I'll quote him, the bottom line is that Iran's nuclear weapons ambitions will be stopped.
Do you think, are you preparing for a strike on Iran or do you think that Israel is talking what we would say talking a big game but not actually going to do anything? HOSSEINI: No. No, I don't believe such a thing will occur. I firmly believe that they're bluffing. The worldwide climate and atmosphere politically and socially speaking is not ready for such an unprovoked attack and aggression and they do fully realize that the very existence of the Zionist regime will be in danger.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: Have a great weekend.
"A.C. 360" starts right now.
