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Erin Burnett Outfront

ISIS Beheading Symbolic; Great-Grandfather Serving Life Sentence for Pot; Home Depot Investigates "Massive" Hack

Aired September 03, 2014 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next, the breaking news, the family of the second American executed by ISIS speaks out as the White House strategy for combating the terrorists gets muddier.

Plus a special report on the terror group's barbaric tactics. The videos we have tonight are hard to watch but important to see.

The high price of pot. A man sentenced to life without parole for possession of marijuana. Does the punishment fit that crime? Let's go OUTFRONT.

Good evening, everyone. I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, we begin with the breaking news, the family of the second American beheaded by ISIS speaks out. Just an hour ago, the Sotloff family broke its silence about the murder of their son.

He was abducted by the terrorists 13 months ago and brutally murdered in a video shown this week. The family said Steven was trying to make a difference. They said he wasn't a war junkie. That he didn't court danger.

They said he was just trying to give a voice to those who didn't have one. Our Alina Machado is outside the family home in Pinecrest, Florida, where they spoke today -- Alina.

ALINA MACHADO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, Steven Sotloff's father stood just a few feet away holding a picture of his son while a childhood friend of Steven's read a prepared statement.

In that statement, even though it was very brief, we got a better sense of who Steven Sotloff was, what were some of the things that he enjoyed and the values that drove him. Take a listen to some of what was said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARAK BARFI, SOTLOFF FAMILY SPOKESMAN: Steve was no hero. Like all of us, he was a mere man who tried to find good concealed in a world of darkness. And if it did not exist, he tried to create it. He always taught to help those less privileged than him off offering career services and precious contacts to newcomers in the region.

He indulged in "South Park" but was just as serious about filing a 3:00 a.m. story. He had a fondness for junk food he could not overcome. And despite his busy schedule he always found time to Skype his father to talk about his latest golf game.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACHADO: And again, the family is planning a private memorial for this Friday for Steven Sotloff, but again even though they broke their silence today, they want to maintain their privacy as they continue to mourn -- Erin.

BURNETT: Alina, thank you very much. Very poignant comments we heard today from Steven Sotloff's friend. And the family's comments come as the president of the United States today gave contradictory statements about his plans to deal with the man who slaughtered Steven Sotloff.

First, speaking at the NATO summit, the president vowed to destroy ISIS.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Our objective is clear and that is to degrade and destroy ISIL.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Degrade and destroy, but then just a few minutes later the president said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT OBAMA: We can continue to shrink ISIL's sphere of influence to the point where it is a manageable problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: A manageable problem. Jim Sciutto spoke today with the secretary of defense and tried to figure out what the president's policy really is, destroy or manage -- Jim.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, this is a rare chance to sit down with a senior administration official, have a deep conversation and really get at some of these unanswered questions.

Is it to contain or destroy? Is that the aim of the U.S. mission against ISIS? Is ISIS in fact a direct threat to the U.S. homeland today or somewhere potentially down the road?

And in his answers to those questions, frank answers, direct ones, I think we heard Secretary Hagel preparing the American people today for a long, difficult fight against ISIS.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHUCK HAGEL, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: We're providing the president with those options to degrade and destroy ISIL's capability.

SCIUTTO: That's the endgame, to degrade and destroy. Not to contain. HAGEL: No, it's not to contain.

SCIUTTO: Is it an imminent threat to the U.S. homeland or to the region?

HAGEL: Look at what just happened 24 hours ago on the latest video of another citizen, as to what ISIL did. It is a threat. ISIL is a threat to this country, to our interests.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Another question the secretary answered today is this -- does the president have military options on his desk now to do things including strike Syria, not just Iraq? White House officials have hinted a few days ago when the president said there was no strategy yet for Syria, for ISIS in Syria.

And that those options weren't ready, Secretary Hagel said, in fact, the Pentagon has presented the administration with options including military strikes inside Syria.

He said those options are constantly being updated. But we know tonight, Erin, that the president at least has some options on his desk to expand military action against ISIS.

BURNETT: All right, thank you very much to Jim Sciutto. Joining me now is John King. John, you hear the Sotloff family give this poignant description of Steven Sotloff and what he was about and what drove him and what he was like as a person.

The first that we've heard that. It brought this home in a new way, on a day the president says he'll degrade and destroy ISIS, but then says he can make it a manageable threat.

The defense secretary seems to say, no, no, forget about the manageable part. It's all about degrade and destroy. The message seems to be very confusing.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's part of the problem. They definitely have a communications problem. What the president says sounds contradictory. If you talk to military experts they say it is not necessarily contradictory.

The ultimate solution needs to be political, a change of regime, better government in Iraq, maybe change of regime in Syria. But ultimately you're not going to make this problem go away without any giant political changes in the Middle East that are probably beyond any American president's control.

So it's not necessarily inconsistent, but it falls into this problem where the president is saying one thing and then on the next do sound contradictory, as you know, which is why the president is under a lot of pressure.

Republicans saying be more aggressive, go into Syria now, launch those airstrikes. That debate will continue, but they do have a communications issue, which is why even from some of his closest friends, the president is being urged to give me a more comprehensive to the American people to lay all this out.

To talk like Secretary Hagel did today about they control this much territory in Iraq, this much in Syria. Here's what we have to do and it could take, a lot of people in this administration will tell you upfront, Erin, even if he's successful in dealing with this problem, he's going to hand it off to the next president.

BURNETT: You know, you wrote on cnn.com, you just mentioned there criticism from his friends. He's getting criticism from a lot of Democrats, his friends, those who support him. You're not acting, perhaps not being strong enough.

On a day where he gave those seemingly contradictory statement, it was the vice president, Joe Biden, that came out not cool and collected like the president, but passionate and adamant and with a strong fist. Here's Joe Biden.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: When people harm Americans, we don't retreat. We don't forget. They should know we will follow them to the gates of hell until they are brought to justice! Because hell is where they will reside!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Isn't that the passion and the fierceness that people want to hear from the president right now?

KING: It probably is. I think what I call the Ham-al Rabi reflex is very understandable when you look at the video of these two beheadings in the last two weeks of Americans. They're journalists, too, but they're Americans.

But when you talk about ISIS or ISIL, whatever you call it, taking territory in Iraq, a lot of Americans said no, not again. We have no interest in going back to Iraq.

When you see Americans brutally beheaded like this, people do understand the more reflexive and the passion that you hear from the vice president there. Look at the political statements.

It's not just the president's Republican critics saying do something and do it now, it's a lot of Democrats who say, no, Mr. President, be careful, Mr. President.

We like your caution, Mr. President. Even those Democrats are now saying, you need to be more aggressive. Caution won't do in the face of such horrific barbarism.

BURNETT: You covered Iraq. The president said look, I'm not going back into Iraq. That's not what I'm going to do here, but at the same time, I want to obliterate ISIS. But the administration seems to be, as you heard Jim Sciutto

saying, building a case that this will be a long fight, that this could be something very significant. They're building up that they're the worst ever.

Chuck Hagel said to Jim Sciutto that this is the most barbaric group that anyone has ever seen. Those are strong big words. You look at al Qaeda, they were the group that started beheading American journalists and other Americans on video.

How is ISIS more barbaric than flying a plane into a building and slaughtering innocent people or is this worst ever rhetoric just trying to build the case for strong intervention?

KING: I think that's the question and the communication question the president faces now, if he's going to call them the worst ever, he has to explain it to the American people.

I think part of the administration's calculation there, Erin, is that al Qaeda once they were kicked out of Afghanistan did not control a sovereign state. Once they look at the map of Syria and the map of Iraq, you're seeing what ISIS hopes to be an Islamic caliphate taking place.

So part of it is about territory and political control that Al Qaeda never had especially once they were kicked out of the Taliban kicked out of Afghanistan. But the president will have to make that case.

So as part of that, remember, it took ten years to decimate al Qaeda and yet people still say watch the remnants of al Qaeda, but that took ten years. If you talk to the policy people, it could take 15 or 20 to decimate ISIS.

That's the military part of it. You still have the political questions. If Iraq is still a mess and Syria is still a mess, there's still the environment and the religious ethnic tensions that are older than the bible for it to regroup, if you will.

BURNETT: All right, thank you very much, John King.

OUTFRONT next, the videos, they are very hard to watch, but they're important to not turn away from. Our Nic Robertson makes that case and we are going to show you. It's very difficult to watch but important tonight.

Plus another giant hack, a home improvement chain investigating a massive breach that could affect millions. Home Depot, you ever shopped there? You're at risk.

And the high price of pot, a man serving a life sentence for possessing pot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you wonder how did I get here? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every day. It's unbelievable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: We're getting a glimpse tonight into ISIS' barbaric military tactics. Brutality so extreme it is rarely seen on television. But with all the focus and the decisions facing the United States on what to do about ISIS, it's important to watch.

Tonight the mother of James Foley, the American beheaded by ISIS says she hopes the deaths of her son and Steven Sotloff will pressure international leaders to finally destroy ISIS.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DIANE FOLEY, MOTHER OF JAMES FOLEY: I would hope that their deaths might not be in vain, that they might awaken the world that we must act as a unified world for peace and for goodness and just work together. I mean, it's just so horrific.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: When she uses the word "horrific," it's the right word. We want to show you, so you understand, the chilling tactics used by ISIS. We believe we have a responsibility to show some of the horrors. And what we're about to show is certainly not appropriate for children. The report is from CNN's Nic Robertson. It will run about three minutes. When it's over, we're going to discuss Nic's reporting.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The more ISIS grows, the more it fights like a regular army. Like infantry backed up by artillery. Tactics that have landed them heavy weapons, but don't be fooled. These fighters are barbaric in a way no fighting force has ever been before.

Cataloging and posting in near realtime their war crimes. Last week, pictures emerged from human rights groups showing more than 100 captured Syrian soldiers paraded in their underwear, then images of those same men dead.

But ISIS wanted to make sure the world knew it was responsible, wasting little time posting this video showing commanders giving the orders to fire, then the nauseating hail of bullets, confirmation of how those soldiers were brutally executed. Its propaganda, like me, you want to turn away. But when we do, we give in. We are terrorized and their goal is achieved.

Almost a decade ago, al-Qaeda in Iraq, which ultimately morphed into ISIS, was led by this violent jihadist. He sprung to fame, beheading American businessman Nicholas Berg. Bin laden's deputy Ayman al- Zawahiri criticized his blood thirsty tactics. The beheadings stopped.

But when ISIS murders journalist James Foley in the same way, the same al-Qaeda core leader has no response, at least not yet. As a result, extreme violence for propaganda seems to have no bounds. ISIS' wholesale slaughter of both Syrian and Iraqi army troops is institutionalized in the organization now. Even women, even young children are given severed heads to hold.

ISIS leader Baghdadi is marginalizing al-Qaeda's core, which means when his proteges target the west, it could be even more despicable than the terror we've seen in the past. These are fighters who have so debased and degraded themselves they've lost moral compass.

And as any regular military commander will tell you, that puts them almost beyond control and ultimately a danger to their own organization. But unless they implode, despite the veneer of a regular army, there will like he be more horrors like these.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BURNETT: And Nic, you know, you show that child holding the head. You talk about just how horrific it is, the people that they're recruiting to do these acts. But are most of the people they're recruiting young men? I mean, is that the stereo typical profile of ISIS or not?

ROBERTSON: Yes, pretty much. I mean, these are guys sitting around watching the internet, watching the propaganda back in Britain or France or anywhere else in Europe, even the United States. And they're seeing this and they get excited and they want to be part of it. And that's what's drawing them in. And it isn't just what we've shown you here. There are other things, too. I mean, there are crucifixions, amputations, and that it is. It is a (INAUDIBLE) this hard core jihadist believing youth and they want to join it.

BURNETT: And they're tech savvy, too. I mean, those videos you're showing, you're talking about they're highly produced, they've got music, graphics, they have all sorts of things put into the screen that are sophisticated and technical. How are they able to do that, pull that off?

ROBERTSON: Yes. They've got young tech-savvy guys doing it. They've got models within al-Qaeda already. You know, you've got al-Qaeda core in Pakistan. A polished media house for a number of years. So, they're just picking up and learning from what those organizations are doing, stuff that you can do pretty effectively on a laptop. They're doing it.

And they know that this is not just about recruits. This is going to make money for them as well because they know the bigger their brand is, the more the sort of money going to jihadist coffers from outside, the more it will flow to them and not others.

BURNETT: Nic Robertson, thank you so much.

Want to bring in Seth Jones now, associate director of the international security and defense policy center at Rand and Bob Baer, our national security analyst and former member of CIA.

All right, great to have both of you with us. I mean, watching this video, Seth, is incredibly difficult. As you heard Nic make the case, we think it's important when you have a country on the brink of war, on the brink of deciding what to do about it, to understand the horrors that we're really talking about. When people see that, it makes it clear. Why do they -- what are they getting, what are they gaining by putting out these slickly, very sophisticatedly produced videos?

SETH JONES, ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL SECURITY AND DEFENSE POLICY CENTER AT RAND: Well, ISIS has multiple audiences for putting out these videos. One is they're trying to recruit people who want to come to fight in what they consider a good jihad and fight for an organization that is standing up to the west and particularly the United States.

Second, I think, and ISIS leaders including Baghdadi have said publicly, they're trying to coerce the United States to stop targeting their own locations in Iraq right now and potentially in Syria in the future. I think the hope is to almost terrorize the American population into stopping this execution of air strikes that we see now.

BURNETT: And obviously, that has not worked. There have been more air strikes. There's been an acceleration of that, Bob. And we have another video again. I want to warn everyone this is graphic. This is ISIS ling up Syrian soldiers and executing them on camera. Again, it is the bodies ling up on the ground and these executions.

When you hear Chuck Hagel say that there has never been a group this barbaric, do you think that that's true or are they just more adept at showing us?

ROBERT BAER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Erin, there's two things. There's never been a group this barbaric since the 7th century. This isn't about Islam cutting off heads, killing people with knives. This is tribal. And they're going back to a time of what they consider of absolute purity of Islam. It's a misinterpretation of Islam, but more than that in taking, you know, going on the comments is that, they want to terrorize the locals as well in both Syria and Iraq, the tribes are terrified of these groups. They don't know what to do about them. A lot of them are outsiders. And what they don't want, ISIS doesn't want is another awakening to occur. And they're trying to carve out, if you like, a Sunni homeland and they are succeeding. No one is opposing them.

BURNETT: Seth, what about what Nic just spoke about, I mean, some of the videos that we've shown are horrific, but we did not show videos of crucifixion, we did not show the actual moment of beheading, they cut off limbs, all of those things ISIS is doing right now. Is there anything that they are not capable of doing? Is there any line that they would draw?

JONES: Well, there are things that they're not capable of yet. At this point they don't appear to be capable right now of putting operatives into the U.S. homeland and striking American targets here. But I think what we've seen is they are willing to go to extraordinary lengths --

BURNETT: I mean, morally capable.

JONES: Yes. They're willing to go to -- this is, in fact -- and Nic mentioned this. This is exactly why Zarqawi was punished verbally by al-Qaeda leaders in Pakistan, both al-Rahman and Ayman al-Zawahiri because this brutality was bound to get them in trouble over the long run.

BURNETT: And Bob, before we go, you say the knife is important in the beheadings, the use of that specific knife. Why?

BAER: What they're demonstrating is symbolic is you may have airplanes and drones and hellfire missiles but we can strike back with knifes. We don't need to do this with guns. This is a message. The fact that they didn't use quotations from the Koran in these executions tells me it's a message directed toward the west and also new recruits in the United States and Europe. And even the production values of this clip are very important for reaching that audience.

BURNETT: They are. And as we said, they're highly produced. Thanks to both.

And next, life in prison. The man serving more time for pot than people for murder, justified?

Plus we'll hear from the American woman who beat the odds and is alive to tell the tale of how she fought off the deadly Ebola virus.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: Tonight, a man serving a life sentence without parole for pot. Marijuana may be legal in some parts of the country but in some places it can mean a life sentence. So does that punishment fit the crime? It's pretty incredible, right, a man and a life sentence without a parole for pot.

David Mattingly is OUTFRONT with the first part of our series on "the Price of Pot."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In 1996, Jeff Mizanskey (ph) was sentenced to life in a Missouri prison for something a lot of people now might think is not that big of a deal.

You were sentenced to life without parole for possession of marijuana?

MIZANSKEY (ph): Yes, that's what I'm doing.

MATTINGLY: Do you wonder how did I get here?

MIZANSKEY (ph): Every day. It's unbelievable. MATTINGLY: Mizanskey (ph) was busted 20 years ago for seven pounds of

pot. But now when in almost half the country, including Missouri, allows some form of medical marijuana use, with two states even allowing recreational use, he wonders why he's still doing hard time.

MIZANSKEY (ph): I have to say, I can't figure it out.

MATTINGLY: Why should you go free?

MIZANSKEY (ph): Justice is supposed to be fair and equal. In my case, I don't think it was.

MATTINGLY: Mizanskey (ph) isn't alone thinking that way. Lifeforpot.org currently lists 25 nonviolent marijuana offenders serving life sentences in U.S. prisons, locked away with violent offenders serving less time. Mizanskey (ph) tells me how the state of Missouri threw away the key after he broke a three strikes law targeting repeat drug offenders. He gets emotional thinking about what it is caused him. He just became a great grandfather.

MIZANSKEY (ph): I found that out about a month ago. I got grandkids and not seeing them.

MATTINGLY: Do you think you will go free?

MIZANSKEY: I think with the help of the people, I will, eventually, if I can live long enough.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): Mizanskey is finding a lot of support. Surprisingly, it starts with the man who is responsible for putting him away.

(on camera): Good morning.

JEFF MITTLEHAUSER, PETTIS COUNTY PROSECUTOR: Jeff Mittlehauser.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): Prosecutor Jeff Mittlehauser recently wrote a letter to the governor of Missouri calling Mizanskey's offense a very serious crime committed by a career criminal, but, he says, it's time to let him go.

(on camera): Why this change of heart?

MITTLEHAUSER: I don't think it's so much a change of heart as simply a realization that after he sat in prison for 18 or 19 or 20 years, that's what I believe is enough punishment for the crime he committed.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): Many seem to agree, 377,000 have signed a petition at Change.org, calling on Missouri Governor Jay Nixon to grant clemency.

(on camera): A spokesman for the governor says he will not comment directly about Mizanskey's case, but they will confirm that he has received Mizanskey's clemency request and that it's under review.

(voice-over): In the meantime, Mizanskey has nothing to do but wait and wonder, if he might truly be destined to spend the rest of his life behind bars because of marijuana.

MIZANSKEY: I'm 61 years old. How much time do I got left?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BURNETT: That's an incredible report, at every level. I mean, I'm sort of stunned. You're saying there's Jeff Mizanskey, and there's 25 others around the country, serving these sentences for marijuana.

MATTINGLY: Right.

BURNETT: Is there a chance he'll get out?

MATTINGLY: Well, that all depends on the governor. There's been a lot of changes since he went into prison. What they're looking at right now, the governor has to decide if he's going to grant clemency.

The state of Missouri has undergone a sweeping change of their sentencing laws recently. Those new laws go into effect in 2017, but they're not retroactive. So, they're not going to affect his case at all. Everything depends on what the governor decides with this clemency request.

BURNETT: And what I found amazing was you actually talked to the prosecutor who said it was a serious crime. Didn't back off that. But the prosecutor, the guy who put him there says he should get out.

MATTINGLY: He wasn't very passionate about it. He said yes, this was a career criminal. This was a serious act. He deserved to go to prison, just not for life without parole.

So, that was essentially what he sent to the governor's office. And now, everyone is waiting to find out what the governor is going to do.

BURNETT: We're all waiting now.

All right. David Mattingly, thank you very much.

And OUTFRONT now, our senior legal analyst Jeff Toobin, and Charles "Cully" Stimson, senior our legal fellow at the Heritage Foundation.

Cully, let me start with you. This man is serving more time than murderers do, than rapists do. How can that be fair?

CHARLES STIMSON, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: I don't think it is fair. I don't think many people thing it is fair. Under the old sentencing scheme in his state, he was a three-striker. And as the prosecutor, who sounds fair to me, said he's a career criminal but he served his time. Under that old sentencing scheme, you do that kind of crime, there were 14 bricks of marijuana during this drug transaction, Erin, you get life without parole.

BURNETT: So, you're saying that's the law? It sounds like you're saying he should be able to go free now. But you don't have a problem with someone spending the time he spent in jail for possessing pot? STIMSON: I actually do. I think for the most part, drug laws

especially with respect to marijuana are fair in this country. I know Jeff probably disagrees with me.

This case is an outlier. I mean, one tenth of 1 percent of state prisoners are in for marijuana. And on average, on the federal side, it's about the same percentage, Erin. They had on average 115 pounds of marijuana, 156,000 marijuana cigarettes in their possession. So, they weren't really using it for personal use.

BURNETT: Jeff, what do you think? You heard him say most think the pot laws in this country are fair, putting people behind bars for pot fair.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Nope. I think it's horrible. I think it's a disgrace. I think there are so many people in prison for many, many years. Sure, there are 25 lifers, but there are thousands who are in prison for multiple years for something that should not be a crime at all.

We are now having a national experiment in Colorado and Washington state of what marijuana legalization means. And you know what? It's working pretty well.

And this -- the idea that our country is making these people suffer and spending the untold millions of dollars to lock these people up for something that should not be a crime is grotesque.

BURNETT: Cully?

STIMSON: Well, the facts just don't back up Jeff's argument. The fact is, as I said, one tenth of 1 percent of people are in jail in state prison for marijuana-related offenses. The jails are not chock- full of people who --

BURNETT: But should they be there?

STIMSON: Now, I don't think they should. I don't think they should, frankly, Erin. I've been a prosecutor and a defense attorney and a judge. I've served on all three sides of the courtroom unlike most people.

And, you know, most people in this country who get busted for simple possession of pot don't go to jail, nor should they. They should get treatment. They should realize it's dangerous for them. But they should not go to jail.

And that's what really happens in most cases. The jails just aren't chock-full of people for marijuana.

TOOBIN: Well, it is true that lots of people are arrested for pot because lots of people use pot. And they're not criminals, by and large. But the problem is we've criminalized the whole process so the bad guys are making money off of it instead of Philip Morris who should be running the marijuana business as it is. BURNETT: Jeff, what about the case that David was reporting on, that

he had seven pounds, right? Seven pounds of marijuana, is that right? David's still with me.

MATTINGLY: What the prosecutor was talking about was this was an undercover sting operation and he believes that Mizanskey was there to buy all this so he could sell it again. But that's what they had in possession of, seven pounds of marijuana.

BURNETT: In talking about the prosecutor referred to him as a career criminal, Jeff. A lot of these case, aren't these people also doing other things that marijuana would be the tip of the iceberg?

TOOBIN: Well, sure, look, I used to be a prosecutor, too. I think criminals belong in prison. The policy issue we're talking about is, should marijuana be legal? In Colorado, in Washington state now, you don't have cases like this because the production of marijuana is now controlled and regulated.

BURNETT: Jeff, is there a limit you would say that someone should have to the point that cully was making, hundreds of thousands of pounds or seven pounds. Is that all OK to you?

TOOBIN: Well, if you legalize it, you don't have people like that. Obviously, a lot of bad people are involved in the drug trade. People who are also bank robbers, who are also dealing hard drugs which should be illegal as far as I'm concerned. But when you make all of marijuana illegal, you create an entire

criminal class. I don't think these drug dealers are good people. I know that they were involved in this for very bad reasons.

But the issue is marijuana is no more dangerous than alcohol is, which is a huge and profitable business in this country. And until we regulate it like we regulate alcohol, we're just going to have more tragedies like this.

BURNETT: And, Cully, to Jeff's point, more than -- nearly 100,000 people, I'm sorry, die a year die of alcohol, excessive drinking. According to Sanjay Gupta, there's pretty much no risk of dying from a marijuana overdose. So, why not legalize pot?

STIMSON: Well, I disagree with the doctor and so does the American Medical Association, the American Lung Association, various other institutions like Yale and Columbia University. I mean, the fact is the marijuana of yesteryear that some of us tried back in the '60s, '70s and '80s was about 1 percent or 2 percent of tetrahydrocannabinol, the active ingredient in marijuana.

The marijuana today in Colorado and Washington state and elsewhere, that they're selling legally, is 20 percent to 40 percent THC. It is a different drug. That's why it's a class one drug.

It is more dangerous than alcohol. And the facts on the ground in Colorado show that the cartels are increasing their activity because they're undercutting the state price for marijuana.

So, I think Jeff's wrong and I think the doctor is wrong.

BURNETT: All right. Thanks to both of you and to our David Mattingly.

And to see the marijuana laws and penalties in your state, go to our Twitter page @OutFront.CNN.

Tomorrow on OUTFRONT, the second part in our series, David Mattingly travels to Washington state where marijuana is legal but five people are facing federal drug charges for growing pot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: When I think about drug traffickers, you're not exactly what comes to mind for me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You think of a drug cartel in Mexico. That's what I think of. You know what I'm saying? That's how bad it sounds.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: So, with each of them now facing the minimum of ten year in prison, does the punishment fit the crime? That's tomorrow night OUTFRONT.

And next OUTFRONT, hacker stole naked pictures of Hollywood celebrities. But tonight another massive security breach, Home Depot.

And it's hard enough being the rookie football player. It's even harder being the smallest player on the team. Meet a little linebacker who lives large.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: A potentially massive credit card breach at Home Depot -- the biggest home improvement retail chain in the United States. Home Depot working with law enforcement officials to investigate unusual activities. It is a data breach possibly by hackers that could extend to your information from any Home Depot store. There's 2,200 stores in the United States.

Home Depot has just released a statement tonight that reads in part, quote, "our forensics and security teams have been working around the clock since we first became aware of a potential breach. There's no higher priority for us at this time than to properly gather the facts so we can provide answers to our customers."

Richard Quest joins me tonight with tonight's money and power.

RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

BURNETT: This is a terrifying story for people, anyone watching because pretty much everyone shops at Home Depot, for Home Depot, because this happened to Target, I know a lot of people that don't shop at Target because of that. They took a hit. QUEST: Sales were down 3 percent to 6 percent at Target as a result.

It cost Target $150-odd million to sort it out. The ramifications are still going.

And Home Depot must be absolutely terrified because of the way this could spin out of control so fast.

BURNETT: Quickly spin out of control. But what I don't understand, Richard, is that this is happening, right, correct me if I'm wrong, but this is happening in part because the credit cards that Americans use have a magnetic strip on them, and that strip very easy to rip information off of, but there is another technology out there that's better.

QUEST: Oh, absolutely. It's called chip and PIN and I would happily show you my chip and PIN debit cards, and my chip and PIN credit cards, except somebody would probably do something. And there's the chip.

Now, basically, what you do is you run it through the machine and you put in a PIN number. You don't even sign any more in Europe in large parts of the world. It's only in this country. And the banks have been reluctant to use chip and PIN because of the cost effect. It's expensive to introduce across the whole country.

BURNETT: It's inexpensive, but it's unacceptable that they don't. That would be my argument. Come on, guys. You serve the people. Why -- this is ridiculous.

QUEST: During the time of the Target, I asked again and again and again to bankers, to credit card companies, why not chip and PIN?

BURNETT: Especially when they've done it everywhere else in the world.

QUEST: Absolutely.

BURNETT: Not as if they haven't done it everywhere else.

QUEST: Absolutely.

And they basically said, they are -- what it really comes down to. You want the power and money of this?

BURNETT: Yes.

QUEST: The power and money of this at the moment is that the losses don't justify the expense of introducing it. It's a straightforward economic equation.

BURNETT: So, they'd rather let people steal things and pay you back for that, deal with all that.

QUEST: They don't pay you back for that. We pay them back because it goes on our interest rates. It goes on our cards. You, me --

BURNETT: Bunch of slime buckets.

QUEST: I wouldn't go that far. BURNETT: I think it's slimy.

QUEST: Eventually, the equation will move against them and they'll introduce more secure systems.

BURNETT: So, next week, Apple's supposed to announce a new function, right, with iPhone based payment system. Given what we're talking about now, given what happened to Apple this week with celebrity pictures, nude pictures being stolen off the Cloud.

QUEST: You are fascinated by that.

BURNETT: I am fascinated by it. Yes, I am. I don't know why someone would take such a picture.

But I will ask this, do you trust that payment system if the Cloud is not safe?

QUEST: This is the dilemma or even the conundrum, better than dilemma. This is the conundrum. We need to move towards these systems because that is the future. Let's not have any nonsense do we need this? Is it the right way to move --

BURNETT: The answer is yes.

QUEST: It's happening. The question is the modalities, how do you get there, how do you protect it? And we are guilty because I bet you're still using some of the passwords that you probably used almost in college.

BURNETT: Hmm. I don't know about that. I have to think about that. But I think everyone has the same problem with passwords, just that they can't keep track of them all.

QUEST: Exactly.

BURNETT: All right. Richard, thank you very much.

OUTFRONT next, an American speaks out about how she survived Ebola.

And they say the camera can pack on the pounds, but for one pro football player, a glitch did just the opposite. That story is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: And now, let's check in with Anderson with a look at what's coming up on "AC360" -- Anderson.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, Erin. Yes, we got a special two- hour edition of "360" coming up at the top of the hour. We're digging deeper on the president's decision on how best to wage a campaign against ISIS. Unique perspective ahead on how to counter the propaganda as well coming from ISIS, being waged online by the terror group, which is turning out slick Hollywood style recruitment videos like this. The question is, are these and the grossing beheading videos of Americans, Jim Foley and Steven Sotloff, videos we choose not to show on "360", are they actually working?

I speak with someone who knows. (INAUDIBLE) himself a former recruit to radical Islam.

Also ahead, the first sit-down interview from Ebola survivor Nancy Writebol. Her remarkable story of how she believed she contracted the often deadly disease, though she's still not sure how she actually got it, how she survived tonight, and what's next for her and her husband, Dave.

It's all at the top of the hour, Erin.

BURNETT: All right, Anderson. Really looking forward to that. See you in just a few minutes.

Well, the NFL is the big times, so what a thrill for the rocky linebacker who find out he'd also made it into the legendary Madden video game. He would be a force to reckon with. Can you imagine getting into that video game? I mean, wow, right?

Here's Jeanne Moos.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Please, please don't step on the itsy bitsy linebacker.

Chris Kirksey went from this.

CHRIS KIRKSEY, LINEBACKER, CLEVELAND BROWNS: I'm 6'2" actually in person.

MOOS: To this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A crazy phenom of a player at 1'2".

MOOS: All because of a technical glitch in a video game. Madden NFL 15 has gamers mad for the adorably tiny Cleveland Browns linebacker who was inadvertently miniaturized and turned into a Tennessee Titan. He's irresistible as he attempts tackles and squashed by his teammate but it takes more than that to keep a 14-inch linebacker down.

He got the fumble, even if the ball is bigger than he is.

(on camera): Hey, little guy, how does it feel being 1 foot 2 inches?

No matter how small you are, have big dreams and live big. That's what Chris Kirksey tweeted out in response to his teeny-weeny avatar.

KIRKSEY: When I first saw it, I thought it was funny.

MOOS: Chris says his favorite move is when he high-fived a teammate.

KIRKSEY: I basically just elevated in the air.

MOOS: A high five requires a heck of a jump starting at 14 inches. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Showing you guys that he's got some nice vertical

as well.

MOOS (on camera): Actually, this isn't the first itsy-bitsy player glitch.

(voice-over): Last month, gamers noticed a flying lineman simply blasting off like a human punt and five years ago, a glitch left a tiny player heading for the goal line through the legs of an opponent trying to nail it.

For Chris, it's like being in that movie classic.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I shrunk the kids.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nick, what happened?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're the size of boogers.

MOOS: Talk about picking, Chris says he's being picked on by friends.

KIRKSEY: Saying, honey, I shrunk the linebacker. So --

MOOS: But he's taking it in stride. Teeny tiny strides.

Jeanne Moos, CNN --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One feet tall, one foot tall, not feet.

MOOS: -- New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BURNETT: Well, hey, look, now we all know about him and who he is, even those of us who didn't follow football.

All right. Next, an American who survived Ebola speaking out for the first time. Be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: New details tonight, a third American infected with Ebola. Dr. Rick Sacra is not directly treating patients, delivering babies actually is what he was doing in Liberia, when he contracted the deadly virus. The news of Sacra's condition was announced as his colleague Nancy Writebol spoke out about how she survived Ebola that killed nearly 2,000 others.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY WRITEBOL, FORMER EBOLA PATIENT: Was it the ZMapp drug? Was it the supportive care? Was it the Liberian and our U.S. health -- our U.S. medical people? Was it those doctors and nurses that helped to save you? Or was it your faith?

And my answer to that question is all of the above. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: You can hear more from Nancy Writebol coming up next on "AC360".

And tomorrow night, a new CNN film that follows the story of Kristin Beck. She's a former Navy SEAL with 13 tours of combat service in Iraq and Afghanistan. The decorated warrior reveals a shocking secret to the world. That's called "Lady Valor". It's an incredible film and it premieres Thursday night, right here on CNN at 9:00 Eastern.

Thanks so much as always for joining us. I'll be back here tomorrow night same time, same place.

"AC360" begins right now.