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Erin Burnett Outfront
Ebola Testing Under Way For N.Y. Doctor; NYPD Officer Critically Injured By Ax-Wielding Man
Aired October 23, 2014 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next, breaking news, the nation's largest city on high alert, a possible case of Ebola in New York City, an American doctor just back from treating patients in West Africa with Ebola. It appears did he not self-quarantine. He is now hospitalized with a 103-degree fever. We have details on the story coming up.
Plus a New York City police officer injured after being attacked with a hatchet. There are questions on whether this was a terror attack.
And more breaking news, dramatic surveillance video just released of the Canadian gunman rightful in hand running through Ottawa streets as the FBI searches for possible links to Jihadist. Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening. I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, breaking news, a major scare in New York City tonight with a possible case of Ebola. At this hour, a 33-year-old American doctor just back from treating Ebola patients in West Africa is awaiting test results at New York's Bellevue Hospital.
Law enforcement officials have identified that doctor as Craig Spencer. Spencer, who we are going to show you, in just a moment, in full protective gear, this is how he was treating Ebola patients in West Africa, had left the country and joining "Doctors Without Borders."
He was helping Ebola patients in guinea. He was back in the United States and was rushed to the hospital in this ambulance. Earlier today, as you can see here, he had 103-degree temperature, nausea, pain and fatigue.
Those are the classic symptoms of the Ebola virus. Now in terms of what happened. It was about 10 days ago that Spencer returned to New York from Guinea, which is one of the three countries on the planet hardest hit by Ebola.
Investigators are treating this case seriously not only because of his symptoms, but also because they believe he did not quarantine himself when he returned.
In fact, even though he just recently treated those Ebola patients, Spencer traveled freely around the most densely populated city in America.
It's reported that just last night, he took a taxi to go bowling in Brooklyn. CNN's Poppy Harlow is outside Bellevue hospital tonight and Poppy, what more are you learning about Spencer tonight?
POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What we are learning at this hour is that according to the mayor of New York City, he is in, quote, "good shape." He is being tested right behind me here at Bellevue Hospital.
This is the designated hospital for anyone with Ebola-like symptoms. They are prepared for a situation just like this. We also know at this hour that the CDC has sent a team. They are on their way right now to New York City to be here at the hospital to help in case this test comes back positive.
A few other developments I want to tell you about. Of course, the heightened concern here is because as you mentioned Doctor Spencer was out as recently as last night bowling in Brooklyn. That he took a cab to go there with people.
His girlfriend is in isolation at this hour. However the mayor of New York City also more importantly, Erin, said he has had very little direct contact with many people.
Just a few people that he apparently came in direct contact with, given what we know about how Ebola is spread, that is an encouraging sign. The mayor also saying it is encouraging the fact that this is a public health official, who knows about this disease, was treating this disease and has been very communicative with the doctors here.
And that he came forth right away, right away as soon as he had that 103-degree fever this morning. The hospital where he works in New York City, Columbia Presbyterian coming out today issuing a statement saying he is a committed and responsible physician.
Also importantly noting he has not treated any patients or worked at the hospital at all in the past ten days since he's been back here in New York City.
BURNETT: And Poppy, I know that we understand, of course, that Dr. Spencer began feeling sluggish a couple of days ago so he perhaps was feeling under the weather and kind of reminiscent of what the nurse, Amber Vinson, may have been feeling so perhaps the symptoms have started, but the fever, as you point out, came on this morning.
Do you know when we are going to get the test results on Dr. Spencer? I know that they are testing where you are. They are also testing at the CDC?
HARLOW: Yes, the results are going to come tonight. It is just a matter of when. At about 4:00 this afternoon, we were told they would come in the next 12 hours so they are going to come by 4:00 a.m., hopefully sooner.
Tested here right across the street from Bellevue Hospital where they do this testing. They are also on their way the samples to the CDC to do secondary testing. So the mayor said, we're going to know tonight.
And then it's also worth to note that, at his apartment, they are totally sectioned off his apartment in case this test comes back positive. So people here in New York City and the New York Health Commission is saying do not -- basically do not freak out.
Because it is very unlikely that people in New York City are going to contract this because of the way it is contracted. So we want to alert people, but at the same time, Erin, you know, we just don't have the results yet. We don't know yet.
BURNETT: All right, thank you very much, Poppy Harlow. And to give you an idea of the great lengths that officials in New York City are going to, to keep people informed about the possible case. Let's just show you this flyer.
This flyer is being handed out to people who live near Dr. Spencer. It asks, are you at risk and have you had direct contact with someone who has Ebola? Did you visit a country affected by the outbreak within the past 21 days?
Obviously the answer for the Dr. Spencer to those questions is probably yes. Miguel Marquez is outside of Spencer's apartment building. Miguel, what is the reaction where you are?
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I can tell you that those flyers are also outside of this apartment here and this area has been flooded with public health officials and politicians, people trying to allay the concerns of residents who might be in this neighborhood.
Also the public health officials very importantly going door- to-door trying to figure out who Mr. Spencer had contact with over the last ten days. Taking their information, making sure they understand how they are doing, making sure they don't have any symptoms whatsoever.
Getting their information, though, importantly enough so that when those tests come back, everything now hinges on those test, when they come back they know exactly who had contact with him and they can spring into action.
His apartment here at 147th Street and Broadway has been isolated and completely blocked off. They will not do anything with that apartment until those tests come back, say health officials. We spoke to one department of health official from the city of New York a little earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAM MILLER, ASSOCIATE COMMISSIONER, NYC HEALTH DEPARTMENT: The health department and other city agencies have been working since late July preparing for this potential eventuality and what I'm doing here is just reassuring people that we are investigating this case. It is a potential case. We don't know yet, but that they are safe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARQUEZ: Now one thing that officials are quick to say is that they were prepared for this. They had police on hand very early in the day. I think we have some video of that and they had gloves and masks to go up and check the apartment and seal it off.
Residents that we spoke to in this building who know Dr. Spencer, who live on his floor, who they say, look, this is a great guy. This is the person you would want as your neighbor. He is a very responsible guy.
The one thing we don't know about Dr. Spencer in his case and "Doctors Without Borders" is not saying yet whether Dr. Spencer spent time in quarantine -- self-quarantine in country, wherever he was coming from.
We don't know whether he came directly back here to the U.S. from wherever he was. That is the one piece of information we are waiting from, from frontier or "Doctors Without Borders." People here in the neighborhood are waiting to find out what that test is before anybody gets too concerned.
BURNETT: All right, thank you very much, Miguel. And obviously a crucial point that he makes about the quarantine.
I want to bring in New York City Councilman Mark Levine. He represents Harlem where Dr. Spencer lives. I know you've been in the neighborhood throughout the day. I know there are discussions about possibly evacuating that building where Dr. Spencer lived? Where do plans stand about that?
MARQUEZ: Well, the apartment was sealed off, as Miguel just mentioned. The building has not been evacuated. There is really no need for that. This virus doesn't live long outside of the body. So unless an individual had intimate contact with Dr. Spencer or was a medical worker who might have been exposed to body fluids then they are not a risk.
BURNETT: So CNN has been told it does not appear that he was self- quarantined when he was in the United States. He's been back in the country for ten days. You know, we've been told sort of the sweet spot of what doctors say of when it would show it would be between seven, 10, or 11 days so that we're within that range.
How concerned are you, though, from his own reporting, feeling sluggish for a few days and got the fever. Sort of like the nurse we heard, who had been flying during that time and now they are notifying everyone on those flight, that there were days when he was out in public in the city and not feeling well.
MARK LEVINE, NEW YORK CITY COUNCILMAN FOR DR. SPENCER'S DISTRICT: Certain is the right word, not panic. We do need to retrace his steps and everyone he came in contact with. But the key point is until you have significant onset of symptoms, you are not contagious. BURNETT: All right, so let me ask you about he went to a bowling alley last night. That's what we've heard here at CNN. We spoke to someone who works at one of the two bowling alleys in Brooklyn.
The woman on the phone at 4:00 said, really the first she heard about this. She had not been contacted by any officials, was actually unaware of the story altogether until we told her.
The other main bowling alley is saying via tweet they have not been contacted by health officials either. That is a little concerning?
LEVINE: Well, they are retracing steps. They've interviewed him and he is cooperating. Public health officials have prepared for this. They have excellent procedures that they have reviewed top to bottom in recent weeks since the Dallas outbreak.
They are on top of that. They have all of the resources at their disposal. Interviews are underway at the moment so I'm confident they are speaking to everyone who is appropriate to contact.
BURNETT: All right, well, thank you very much. I appreciate your time, Mark Levine, as we said, the councilman for the district where Dr. Spencer lives.
And OUTFRONT next, even though Craig Spencer's Ebola test results won't be released for hours or it could be out really any minute, because there are two tests, the team from the CDC is racing to New York City and how quickly could the virus be contained.
And two New York City policemen attacked by a man with a hatchet. One officer is in critical condition. When you look at events in Oklahoma and Canada, we ask was it terrorism?
And as more young men convert to Islamic extremism, is it possible to find them before launch lone wolf attacks?
And new surveillance video of Canadian gunman, Michael Zehaf- Bibeau, running into parliament with a rifle as terrified by try to run away. We'll show you that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Breaking news, a potential case of Ebola in New York City. A 33-year-old American doctor who just returned from West Africa is now in isolation at a Manhattan hospital after developing symptoms of the deadly virus. Investigators are taking the case extremely seriously.
It appears the doctor identified as Craig Spencer, who you see here, did not quarantine himself when he returned to the United States. Just last night, he was in public according to an official after feeling sluggish for a few days.
He took an Uber cab and he went to a bowling alley in the New York metro area. The medical community is responding quickly. The Center for Disease Control is already sending people to New York.
And our senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen is OUTFRONT from the CDC tonight. Elizabeth, what exactly is the CDC going to do?
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: When they get to New York, they are going to have several purposes. One is make sure that all of his contacts have been tracked down. That so important because they might be ill and they might be able to spread the disease.
The second thing is that they are going to, I'm sure, visit with the folks at Bellevue Hospital and to look at their infectious disease practices and to look at the protective gear that they are using and to keep track of the healthcare workers who are working on Dr. Spencer.
You know, that was something that they didn't do terribly well in Dallas and they certainly don't want to make that mistake again.
BURNETT: I know, Elizabeth, you know, they are trying to track down everything they can. You know, we were saying, we've been to a bowling alley. We called the bowling alleys in Brooklyn and one of them who is now not answering their phone had said they didn't know anything about this.
They sort of found out about the story from us and this is just to point out, that even in a place like New York, which has been drilling for this and supposedly prepared for this and now getting the benefit of Dallas, you still can have problems.
COHEN: Right, you can. What I would want to know is how sick did this doctor feel when he returned and did he share that with "Doctors Without Borders" and what did they tell him to do?
I would be concerned if a doctor had been treating Ebola patients and came home and was feeling sluggish. That is not a great sign. And I'm wondering if he shared that with other people and what advice they might have given him.
BURNETT: You know, obviously, crucial because as we know he said he had been feeling sluggish for, quote/unquote, "days" before the fever happened and then he called the hospital at that time. All right, thanks, to our Elizabeth Cohen.
I want to bring in now Dr. Ivan Walks, former District of Columbia chief health officer along with our medical analyst, Dr. Alexander Van Tullekin along with Elizabeth, of course.
Dr. Walks, let me start with you, and the point that Elizabeth is just making, this is a doctor who had been treating Ebola patients, people who are sick and dying with Ebola around those bodily fluids.
He had been feeling sluggish for a few days, but he called the hospital today when he finally got that very high fever. We don't know the results of the tests or what this is going to show, but what is your take on the situation?
DR. IVAN WALKS, FORMER DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA CHIEF HEALTH OFFICER: My take on this, Erin, we've heard it is the fever. Then we heard a few weeks ago, maybe it is the sluggishness. Doctors, especially those who have been close to folks with Ebola, have to pay attention to that.
Science doesn't stay static. We understand more as time goes by. If now the understanding is that sluggishness may be a symptom and you know that you've been treating Ebola patients, you've got to be pro-active.
You have understand, maybe the fever is not what I wait for and then the guidelines have to catch up with that. Now we're saying, what are those guidelines? The public wants to know how do we stay safe? How do we know?
So those people who are making guidelines, the public health leadership need to keep updating those as we learn more about the science and for goodness sakes, if you are treating someone with Ebola, please be more aware.
BURNETT: Dr. Van Tullekin, I think that what is surprising people here is this is someone who knew, right, knows the symptoms and knows what happens and had direct contact with people and feeling sluggish and sick.
When you come back and you are a doctor treating Ebola, I think there are doctors saying, you're kidding me. There isn't a quarantine? It's voluntary, I mean, that is a little bit surprising.
DR. ALEXANDER VAN TULLEKEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: It is easy to look at this and say he may have been irresponsible or maybe he ignored his symptoms for a while.
BURNETT: But he could have called and told him and they could have told him to just stay and do what he was doing, right?
TULLEKEN: We don't know if he has the Ebola and we don't know the details, these symptoms, and the sluggishness. With the kind of work he's been doing, sluggishness would be absolutely expected. I mean, this work is really exhausting. Now obviously, the most important --
BURNETT: But he's home by the time he's feeling that for over a week.
TULLEKEN: Yes, that's true because it's a long time to get better and he may have had all the health issues or symptoms as well. I guess, the main thing that I'd see here is that this is someone who has been doing unbelievably difficult work keeping us safe.
To ask those people who have other jobs and lives to come back and quarantine themselves for 21 days. It's exceptionally hard for an organization to do, which is the only organization mounting a significant response.
BURNETT: But shouldn't there then, Dr. Walks, be support so that they could do that. So that they can make sure they are taking every precaution and these people do not take the personal hit to their lives?
WALKS: Absolutely, Erin. I think that we all want to recognize this very important work. We all want to support the folks who are willing to go and do that work.
As a part of that, we can say, from the day you start treating someone with Ebola to the day you stop treating someone with Ebola, there is a 21-day period after that where you are going to take certain precautions.
Those guidelines need to be very, very clear. Because this is -- this is public health and we aren't only concerned about the folks we're going to treat in West Africa, a critical part of it. But when we come home, we have to come home carefully.
BURNETT: And Elizabeth, in terms of where -- what the situation might be with Dr. Spencer, as we await the results, right, obviously this could be a negative test.
If it is not, he's been back for ten days. He started developing symptoms on Wednesday evening. This is the latest that we know, taken to Bellevue Hospital for isolation this morning when he got the fever.
So what stage of the disease might he be at? I know, you've taken a look at this and how it moves through the body. If someone in this situation had Ebola, what would it look like?
COHEN: Right. It really depends when he was exposed or when he got infected. We don't know how long he was working in Guinea. So did he get it at the beginning of that work period? Did he get it on his last day of work? That makes a big difference.
So what we do know about Ebola is that it enters the body through mucous membranes, through your eyes, nose or mouth or if you got a break in the skin, it could enter that way.
It goes inside your body and that sort of warm-like virus attaches to cells and then it starts replicating. And in the beginning, you don't feel it. There is a period of time where you don't feel anything at all.
Then there is a period of time where you feel sort of less severe symptoms and then you get really, really sick. And so it is hard to say exactly where he's at. But if he does have Ebola, and that is still a big if, if he is already feeling the high fever, that means it is relatively far along.
BURNETT: And Dr. Van Tulleken, I think the question people have is if Ebola hits a major, major city, obviously New York City has a lot of protections and sophisticated health care system.
Nonetheless, this is the fear that they have. Ebola coming into a big city where people are always coming into close direct personal contact with people they don't know, their hands touching on the subway. These are the fears that people have.
TULLEKEN: What I would say is I live about five blocks from Dr. Spencer, I have no concern about going to a bar tonight and I would go bowling at the alley and take a taxi home. The risk is so low as to be negligible.
I think if you want to panic about Ebola, you should panic about the desperately bad response in West Africa. People like him are the only people keeping us safe and at the moment, we basically left it to one medical charity.
So I wouldn't blame him or them. I would say why aren't there many other people going and giving money to MSF.
BURNETT: All right, well, thanks very much to both of you. And of course, to Dr. Walks as well. We lost his shot, but thanks very much to all three of you.
And next breaking news, two New York City police men attacked with a hatchet in broad daylight. Was this a terror attack? The New York City police commissioner mentioning what happened in Canada and what recently happened in Israel.
Plus the Canadian gunman seen running from a car, rifle in hand, into parliament. We have the just-released surveillance video. This is chilling. We'll show it to you in the entirety.
Plus recent converts to violent jihad are the once launching some of these lone wolf attacks. Authorities say they are almost impossible to track, but is that true?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Breaking news, two New York City policemen seriously wounded by a man wielding a hatchet. One of the officers is in critical condition tonight. Investigators fear this may have been a terrorist attack. New York City's Police Commissioner Bill Bratton just addressed that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAM BRATTON, NEW YORK CITY POLICE COMMISSIONER: I think that certainly the heightened concerns relative to that type of assault based on what just happened in Canada and recent events in Israel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Our chief national security correspondent, Jim Sciutto, is OUTFRONT tonight. Jim, I know you've been speaking to your sources and what are they telling you now?
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: We're learning a lot more just in the last few minutes, Erin. But this attack, a random attack on police officers in Upper Manhattan, this man charging them with a hatchet. All officers -- first two officers injured, officers firing back. The man was killed. What is concerning New York Police is what they've seen on his
Facebook page, things indicating extremist views. And as a result of this attack, especially following the attack in Canada yesterday, they have since issued a bullet advising New York City police officers to have increased situational awareness for attacks like this.
So this is really the kind of scenario that you and I, Erin, have been talking about for a couple of weeks, but particularly this week, lone wolf attacks like the one we saw in Canada, very difficult to predict and it doesn't take much to carry one of these out.
It just takes one person with extremist views, and a simple weapon in this case, a hatchet, manages to wound two police officers before they were able to kill him, but right in broad daylight on New York City streets.
And again, it is what they see on his Facebook page that is concerning them about extremist views. It's why they are suspecting -- suspecting at this point, as you know, it is very early, this just happened, but suspecting that there might be an extremist motivation for this.
BURNETT: And Jim, I know you are talking about things on his Facebook page. Are they giving any indication of what that might have been or how much, any kind of color on that?
SCIUTTO: No details except that it wasn't in English, presumably in Arabic, but no details on what exactly it's at, but it is certainly concerning and enough for them to, one, have a suspicion of extremist motivation. And two, put out this warning to other New York City police officers to keep a look out for this kind of thing.
BURNETT: And of course, as you and I have talked about, you've been reporting on the fact that ISIS has put out those saying attack those in uniform in any way that you can, which of course, they believe is a motivation.
And part of what happened in Canada, twice this week where two soldiers lost their lives. When you talk about the writing on the Facebook page perhaps being in Arabic, do we know anything more about this individual, the profile of this person?
SCIUTTO: We don't. We do know he had identification on him, but they haven't confirmed that ID correct for him. They are still running that through all of the traps they would do in this situation.
When you look at this week, two in Canada and one in the U.S., three different weapons, a hatchet in New York, if it is concluded that this is the motivation for this, a gun in Ottawa, and a car elsewhere in Canada.
It shows any kind of weapon -- and another point, it is not just ISIS, but there are other groups, al Qaeda as well, and the leader of al Qaeda has also put out a similar call to arms for Muslims, extremist radical Muslims to basically take up arms any way they can to attack people in the west. BURNETT: All right, Jim Sciutto, thank you very much. As Jim is breaking this news, I want to bring in our law enforcement analyst and former FBI assistant director, Tom Fuentes, and our counterterrorism analyst, former CIA counterterrorism official, Phil Mudd, also joining me as well along with former jihadist and the author of "Undercover Jihadi," Mubin Shaikh.
All right. Great to have all of you with us.
Now that this -- we now have this horrible further development that is now coming here, Tom Fuentes, what is your take? You just heard what Jim is reporting, this hatchet attack on New York City police officers today. They're now looking at this individual's Facebook page and are seeing links to extremists possibly and in Arabic.
TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, if an individual, Erin, wants to attack the United States or attack the government, the most visible symbol of the government is a police officer in uniform or a military officer in uniform. And that's what we've got here. We are soldiers in Canada and here in New York city you have, in fact, four uniformed police officers that this individual attacked. And I understand one is in surgery and critical that was hit in the head with that hatchet.
BURNETT: Yes.
FUENTES: So, this is a serious attack. And more will be found out about it.
BURNETT: So, Mubin, let me ask you. You obviously -- to give people color here, you were formerly someone like this. You had a change of heart. You became someone who has dedicated your life to fighting extremism.
But you were someone who is motivated to attack the West. You understand both sides of this, and the thinking that goes on here.
When you hear they are now seeing on this individual's Facebook page that there's links to extremism, this is something that doesn't surprise you, right?
MUBIN SHAIKH, FORMER JIHADIST: Does not surprise me, no.
BURNETT: And when they say -- and we keep hearing, we can't find these individuals because we -- there are so many things out there like this so it is impossible to find them before this happens, do you agree?
SHAIKH: Well, I personally agree because the U.S., you guys have a population of 300 million people. I mean, we have a population of 30 million people. It is easier to find from a pile of 30 million than 300 million.
So, it is going to depend, right, on the kind of people. Are they online? I mean, there are screening tools that can be used. The University of Liverpool has been working and implementing and using the IVP, identifying vulnerable persons guides, which does that -- has a really good success rate and tested for five years. But that's assuming that these individuals are online. They're dropping, you know, these signs online.
Based on that we can pick them up, if they're not there, we can't.
BURNETT: Fair point, but, Phil, when you hear this individual, we don't have the formal ID at this point, but there were links on his Facebook page. When you look at the beheading that happened in Oklahoma, you also saw a Facebook page that suddenly turned into a pro-9/11 Osama bin Laden chat room.
This is online. It's just -- it's horrible to imagine that you can't see these signs in advance.
PHIL MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: Look, if you are trying to find someone who is vulnerable, in my old life, you've got to look for a variety of indicators. That is, are they getting money from dirty people? Are they talking people you're interested in the United States? Are they communicating with terrorists overseas?
Notice, I didn't mention the Internet. I agree with Mubin. You can find people like. This but multiply 330 million people by 200 or 300 texts and e-mails every day and you are talking about billions of messages every day to sort through. You also obviously have civil liberties issues. So, I don't think just by looking at somebody's Facebook page, you're going to be able to find people like this, at least not systematically.
BURNETT: So, Tom, what happens then? I mean, this is something that is terrifying to people in the United States and Canada, and other coalition countries, a lot of people who are the heroes, the police, the soldiers, people guarding the memorials. Those people who put those uniforms on every day and go to work with pride are now at risk of this.
FUENTES: That's absolutely right, Erin. And it's almost impossible to stop. The FBI, the CIA, other law enforcement services, cannot read the minds of an individual to know when they're going to go from thinking bad thoughts to carrying out bad actions.
In this case, this individual could go to a home supply place and buy a hatchet for $25 and wage war against New York City Police Department. So, that's what you have. It's virtually unstoppable and the answer is this will continue as long as the motivations for people keep occurring to convince people to do it.
BURNETT: And, Mubin, I'll give a final word. I want to give you a chance to just tell our viewers what it was like to be on the other side?
SHAIKH: Well -- I mean, I agree with what Mr. Fuentes is saying, if the motivations are the same, moral outrage, grievance based ideology, if we don't deal with political issues, people will continue to become angry and act out politically in extreme manners.
So, we have to deal with root issues and can't keep treating symptoms. We'll just bleed out to death.
BURNETT: All right. Thanks very much to all three of you.
And OUTFRONT next, the dramatic surveillance video of the Canadian gunman just minutes after killing a soldier. That is just ahead.
And recent converts to violent jihad -- is it possible to identify and track them?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Breaking news on the Canada terror attack. We're just learning new details about the man who gunned a soldier and kept the Canadian parliament on lockdown for hours. According to a psychiatric evaluation done after an arrest in 2011, Michael Zehaf-Bibeau told authorities he wanted to be in jail and then said that was the only way he could overcome his addiction to crack cocaine.
And Martin Savidge is OUTFRONT in Ottawa tonight.
And, Martin, this evaluation, there was a lot you had a chance to go through it. What else did you see?
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, one of the things we know, Erin, is that the suspect here has a criminal past. And in one case, he was arrested apparently for theft. And prior to his trial, the question was brought up was, you know, is he mentally fit to stand trial?
So, he had to go through the psychological evaluation you just mentioned here. Let me read a bit of it here. The evaluator eventually says that he wants to be in jail as he believes that this is the only way he can overcome his addiction to crack cocaine. He's been a devout Muslim for seven years and he believes that he must spend time in jail as a sacrifice to pay for the times in the past and his mistakes that he hopes in the future to eventually be a better man.
This letter goes on to say that the evaluator deemed him to be mentally fit to stand trial, in other words that he wasn't suffering from any kind of mental disease.
But you know what, we know so very little about the suspect in this case. Authorities can tell you what he did second by second on Parliament Hill here, but they can't tell you why.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE (voice-over): Prior to his deadly rampage, U.S. and Canadian officials say 32-year-old Michael Zehaf-Bibeau had connections to other radical jihadists in Canada, including at least one that went over to fight overseas in Syria. Authorities also have a moment by moment record of Bibeau's attack on Parliament Hill.
Yet, much of Bibeau's life is still a mystery. Born in Montreal in 1982, authorities say he moved around the country, that he lived in Quebec, Ottawa, Calgary and Vancouver. His mother, a high ranking immigration official. Court documents show his parents divorced when he was 17. Other court records showed he had a criminal past, mainly for drug use.
It was that history which caught the attention of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police when Bibeau allegedly applied for a passport.
BOB PAULSON, RCMP COMMISSIONER: We were aware he applied recently for a passport and we were contacted to conduct background checks.
SAVIDGE: Officials say Bibeau's passport requests was still being investigated when three weeks ago he travelled from Vancouver to Ottawa and said to have begun living at the Ottawa Mission, just blocks away from parliament hill.
This man, who would only give me his first name as Brian, says he saw Bibeau several times at the shelter, and that Bibeau really wanted that passport in order to go to Libya.
(on camera): So, he wasn't talking Iraq, he wasn't talking Syria, he was talking specifically Libya?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, he wanted to go back to Libya, apparently. I don't know if that's where he was from, and that's where he just wanted to go, or to take part in whatever is going on over there.
SAVIDGE (voice-over): Police say Bibeau had converted to Islam.
Imam Mohammed Lahlou, a leader in the Ottawa Muslim community, harshly condemned Bibeau's actions and told me he didn't attend any local mosques.
(on camera): You don't know who he is, he didn't come worship at your mosques.
MOHAMMED LAHLOU, IMAM, AYLMER MOSQUE: I didn't -- and that person should not have anyplace in our community. If they are able to come to our community, we would like to change their mind.
SAVIDGE (voice-over): But Brian says he did witness Bibeau praying in the homeless shelter the night before the attack.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was doing this little chanting in the hallway or whatever, I kind of insult him a little bit by I singing a Christian prayer, or a Christian song as I walked by.
SAVIDGE (on camera): Did he react?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He didn't really even react. He didn't even notice I was there. It was like he was in a trance. SAVIDGE (voice-over): Bibeau would die the following day. Few
who knew him have come forward to speak.
Even his mother in a statement to "Associated Press" had little to say about him, only apologizing to Canadians. "I am mad at our son. I don't understand and part of me wants to hate him at this time."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE: Many Canadians would say they don't want to hear the media talking so much about the suspect. They would rather they hear the media talking about the victim, the soldier was gunned down, and also about the hero, the sergeant-at-arms, who brought an end to the rampage -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much.
And I want to bring Phil Mudd back in now, former CIA counterterrorism official.
Phil, the more that you hear and you hear now about the psychological evaluation and the desires to go to Libya -- when you hear that, what do you think?
MUDD: It looks to me like a lot of cases I witnessed this at the bureau. There's part of this we understand and a part of this we will never understand.
Look, people who are converts tend to be more emotional, more attached to their religion. Sometimes, they get radicalized faster. People in this situation that is misfits want to join something bigger, that tells me why he wanted to go to a place like Libya to fight with militants or maybe a place like Iraq. He wants to join something that validates that he's not just a drug addict, he's a bigger personality.
And sometimes, the radicalization process with people like this can be measured in days or weeks, that might tell you why he moved to Ottawa. He only recently decided, this is a guess, that he wanted to do something and we saw the tragedy of that yesterday.
BURNETT: And, of course, you know, when you look at it, obviously, there was online record that they had and he tried to get a passport. He wasn't technically on a list that Canada keeps of people they think are going to jihad but the man on Monday who did successfully kill a soldier was. Should they be doing more to track every single person that they are worried about?
MUDD: Look, when we talk about this, Erin, we are looking at this backwards. That is we are taking a couple of cases and saying what can we learn from the individual cases about how to stop these people? My life, and what you have to understand is flip that around. Look at a thousand people, 5,000 people and ask a question: have you seen an indication of money transferring from a terrorist group? Have you seen conversations with people about acts of violence? Have you seen direct communication with a terrorist in a place like Toronto or Ottawa, or London?
If you don't see those and you want to weed out people from a sea of 5,000, who might be extremists, trying to figure out when the switch goes on in their mind to say I'm going to kill somebody is impossible.
BURNETT: All right. Phil Mudd, thank you.
MUDD: Thank you.
BURNETT: Something that the law enforcement people around the United States are now thinking about in a whole new world tonight.
OUTFRONT next, a lone wolf responsible for gunning down the Canadian soldier.
Plus, thousands quarantines, animals exterminated, no questions asked. None. Is there a lesson for the United States and how China handles epidemics like SARS, like bird flu, like Ebola?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Breaking news: we now know the man who terrorized the Canadian capital yesterday, shooting and killing a soldier, had connections to jihadists. Michael Zehaf-Bibeau's terror connections appear to have been online. Officials say he used social media to communicate with at least one other extremist who had gone overseas to fight in Syria.
And Bibeau was not alone, the beheading in Oklahoma and recent attack after attack at the same profile.
Tom Foreman is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Out of the gunfire in Ottawa, the emerging picture of the shooter is what intelligence services fear most. A largely self-radicalized person who attacks a target he has privately chosen, a lone wolf.
JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This is something the president talked about before this incident in Canada. It's something that he talked about before we saw the emergence of ISIL as a significant threat to the United States.
FOREMAN: The massive security and surveillance surge after 9/11 made it harder for groups like al Qaeda to pull off large assaults involving many foreign players. And this is what has risen in the wake -- smaller attacks by terrorists who live in the countries they target. Authorities say they are inspired by jihadist websites and sometimes train during brief trips to extremist camps. And they act alone or in very small groups.
Officials say the Boston marathon bombings are a good example, but so are many others. In 2009, an attack at Fort Hood in Texas leaves 13 people dead.
And in Arkansas, a soldier is shot dead at a recruiting station. In 2012, three soldiers and four civilians, including children, are slaughtered in France.
In 2013, a British soldier is butchered on the streets of London. And this year, people are gunned down at a Jewish museum in Belgium. A woman is beheaded at her job in Oklahoma. And just before the Ottawa attack, two Canadian soldiers are hit with a car, one dies.
In each case, security analysts say the attacks appear tied to radical Islam, often to recent converts. They are also very hard for intelligence services to track.
PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: One of the reasons is this sort of natural zealousness that the converts have, but also a lack of understanding early on in the convert's life. ISIS, that's a distortion of Islam. And so, people who have grown up with a faith can see that more easily than people who have just converted to the religion can see that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN: Arguably, a lot of the so-called terrorists really have a good deal in common with school shooters or other mass murders. But by attaching themselves to the jihadi movement, no matter how tenuously, they become murderers with a mission, spreading stark fear in the process -- Erin.
BURNETT: Tom Foreman, thank you.
And OUTFRONT next, the possible case of Ebola in the nation's most densely populated city. What can New York City learn from how Chinese handles overwhelming epidemics? China does not worry about civil liberties.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Breaking news tonight, a possible case of Ebola in New York City, officials say American Dr. Craig Spencer is in isolation at Bellevue Hospital awaiting the results of an Ebola test. Spencer returned 10 days ago from treating Ebola patients in Guinea, in the Ebola hot zone. He was rushed to the hospital with 103-degree fever, nausea, pain and fatigue, classic symptoms of the virus.
And officials tell CNN that last night, Spencer took a cab to a bowling alley in another borough of New York. An official tells us he was feeling, quote, "sluggish for days until before his fever struck."
We were waiting, of course, for the results of that tests to whether indeed he has Ebola or not. He appears to have followed CDC guidelines, but in this case -- excuse me, as somebody who was dealing with Ebola patients, he'd even forced to quarantine. That's what happened in China, and David McKenzie is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It could be
Ebola, quarantine space suits and widespread panic. But these images are from the SARS outbreak in China 11 years ago.
At first, the communist party hid the epidemic from the public, only making things worse. Dr. Gordon Peters of International SOS says SARS caught China by surprise and they've changed their tactics dramatically.
DR. GORDON PETERS, MEDICAL DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL SOS: During the SARS epidemic, they were fairly flatfooted, unprepared. They learned they have to do reporting, they had to have a system. They had clearly learned how to respond to public health disasters.
MCKENZIE: With SARS, the response was often draconian, mandatory quarantine for tens of thousands in hospitals and apartments, closing all schools, offices, entire communities.
Since SARS, deadly outbreak of swine flu, bird flu and H7N9 have rocked China. The information and response is rapid and centralized. With quarantine and mass animal and bird exterminations carried out without question.
The response to Ebola is no different. In Guangdong province alone, where many Africans trade, more than 5,000 people were put under mandatory medical observation before being released.
And while the U.S. has begun some airport screenings for Ebola cases, China has been strictly policing entry points for months.
(on camera): From at least August, Chinese authorities have been inspecting passenger manifests and pulling people from the plane right at the gates who come from Ebola-infected areas to test and question them.
(voice-over): "The population of China is so big, so they need to be strict," says Mr. Xu. "The international community should follow China's example."
China has learned the hard way to control epidemics. The true test will be if Ebola lands on its shores.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCKENZIE: Well, Erin, another thing they control in China, of course, is the media. And so that can help them sway the public one way or the other on the Ebola crisis if it hits here. But that also means if we had a case like you're seeing in New York we may not even know about it -- Erin.
BURNETT: That is pretty incredible to think about.
All right, thank you very much, David McKenzie.
Well, thanks so much for being with us. We'll see you back here tomorrow night. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" begins right now.
