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Erin Burnett Outfront
Officials: Jihadists Likely Blew Up Jet With Timed Bomb; NTSB To Join Metrojet Crash Investigation; U.S. Joining Metrojet Crash Investigation; Trump, Carson Prepare To Face Off At GOP Debate. Aired 7-8:00p ET
Aired November 10, 2015 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:09] ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: OUTFRONT next, the bomb. U.S. officials telling CNN, major new details tonight saying a bomb loaded with military-grade explosives rigged to a timer likely brought down Metrojet 9268.
Plus, how can a bomb get onboard? We'll show you what airport screeners actually see and how hard it is to spot a hidden bomb. That's special OUTFRONT investigation tonight.
And breaking news, a plane crashing into a brick building in Ohio. The details are just coming in on this crash. We've got that for you as we are following it. Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening, I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight on a bomb on a timer. U.S. officials telling CNN tonight that is what likely brought down Metrojet Flight 9268, killing all 224 people onboard. The timer set for just enough time to blow the plane up soon after take-off. We are also learning tonight that officials believe the bomb was a military grade explosive, specifically a plastic explosive like C-4. Also new tonight, officials believe an insider with access to the airport planted the bomb. Egyptian officials say they interviewed everyone with access to the plane including caterers.
Our Chief National Security Correspondent Jim Sciutto is OUTFRONT to begin our coverage tonight. And Jim, what more are you learning about the type of bomb that they think was used to bring this flight down?
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Erin, I'll tell you, U.S. intelligence is basically building a more detailed working theory here. And without the forensic evidence they've normally have with an investigation like this, access to the wreckage, to the bodies, U.S. intelligence officials more convinced it was a bomb that took this plane down. That it was likely snuck onboard by someone with access to the plane at the airport rather than a passenger. And it's based on the flash caught by a U.S. satellite as well as photos of the wreckage and other crews that it was likely military-grade explosives such as a C-4 that would be needed to cause a blast like this one. Now, they also believe as you said that a timer may have been used to detonate after take-off. Now, this is far from a conclusion, a final assessment, but it is a puzzle that they are trying to piece together from afar. And this is where they stand now. BURNETT: And I know that you're also, you mentioned that they
say was an inside job not a passenger. Do they have any sense as to who? Was this someone who worked in cargo, someone who worked in catering, someone who didn't generally ever appear on the tarmac? I mean, do they have any sense at this point?
SCIUTTO: Well, they've been looking hard. Egyptian officials telling us, they interviewed all airport staff that had access to this plane before take-off and that they've examined security camera footage. But in that investigation, they have not found evidence yet of someone putting a bomb on this plane. Now, we have this news our Rene Marsh reporting that Egypt has accepted an offer from the NTSB to travel to Egypt to visit that crash scene to take part in the investigation. This could be really an enormous step forward because what U.S. intelligence has lacked so far is access to that forensic evidence at the scene. And that access, if it follows through, the NTSB, could allow a more defensive judgment from U.S. intelligence.
BURNETT: Al right. Thank you very much. I appreciate it, Jim Sciutto. And yes, as Jim saying, the breaking news that we have now that the NTSB, Egypt accepting their offer to help. Obviously, that could be incredibly significant as to this point. Egypt has denied any involvement by American investigators. But who is responsible for this crash? We now know the name could be the new Osama. New details about the possible mastermind behind this attack, our breaking wait tonight.
And Ben Wedeman is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: (voice- over): He goes by the nom de guerre Abu Osama al-Masri, a shadowy figure some say is the mastermind behind the downing of Metrojet Flight 9268.
It was his voice that claimed in an audio message that Wilayat Sinai, the ISIS-affiliated group waging an insurgency in the northern Sinai Peninsula, brought the plane down killing all 224 on board. But was he the mastermind?
(SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
WEDEMAN: When Abu Osama al-Masri does appear, his face is always blurred. And his real identity or any other details are equally blurry, although his accent is distinctly from mainland Egypt, not Sinai.
MOKHTAR AWAD, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS: The problem is, we don't actually know who he is. There are multiple theories put forward by Egyptian security officials on who he might be.
WEDEMAN: Egyptian investigators have yet to pronounce on the probable or possible cause of the crash of the Russian jetliner. But increasingly, Western intelligence officials suspect it was a bomb and the likely suspect behind it was Wilayat Sinai. For the past two years, hundreds of Egyptian soldiers and
policemen have been killed by Wilayat Sinai.
AWAD: It grew from a group that was blowing up pipelines into a full- blown insurgency in the Sinai that uses advanced anti-tank missiles and also MANPADs. It successfully downed a helicopter before and has tried to do that also on several occasions.
[19:05:16] WEDEMAN: Its tactics well-documented in graphic videos posted on social media are increasingly deadly, knocking out tanks and armored personnel carriers, overrunning checkpoints, even hitting an Egyptian naval vessel with a guided missile, and now perhaps including smuggling bombs onto airplanes.
The identity of the group's leaders remains a mystery, despite being hemmed in by Egyptian intelligence on one side and Israeli intelligence on the other.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WEDEMAN: And among the arsenal of this group is, indeed, C-4. That explosive that may have been used on the bomb on the aircraft last summer Egyptian media reported the Egyptian army during an offensive against the group captured a warehouse that contained ten tons of C-4 and TNT -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Ben Wedeman, thank you very much. That's a pretty terrifying, ten tons. You know, we've been talking in recent days that it could take half a pound or less perhaps to do this sort of an explosion.
Our terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank is with me now along with Phil Mudd, former CIA counterterrorism official. And I want to talk more about what we are learning about the bomb, Paul. But first this breaking news fell to you that Egypt has now, and this is a very significant move, accepting help from the NTSB in terms of this investigation. They had previously rebuffed any assistance from the FBI, from the NTSB. How big of a deal is this?
PHIL MUDD, FORMER CIA COUNTERTERRORISM OFFICIAL: I'm suspicious, Erin. Look, when you talk to the Egyptians, they are talking for example about access to the engines, the American-made engines in the aircraft. To my mind, there are much bigger questions. Is there access to the entire geographic area? Is there access to the footage from the airport or is there access to the interview reports from people in the airport? The Egyptians are under a lot of pressure from Americans to allow access. I want to know what the details are here. Does this mean full access or does that mean access to the engines on the plane which are American-made? I suspect it maybe the latter.
BURNETT: Yes. And it is too. They do specifically discuss the engines. So, they don't exclude anything else but they do specifically mention the engines.
MUDD: Yep. BURNETT: So, interesting that that may not be what it first
seems. Paul, we are learning tonight about the possible bomb here. They're now saying from satellite analysis, the U.S. can see that it was likely a military grade explosive C-4. We just heard Ben Wedeman talking about that warehouse with ten tons of TNT that had been seized. What do you think about the C-4 and how easy the access had it been to it?
PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, we know this group had stock piled C-4. They used C-4 it this year in operations in Sinai notably on the first -- a major insurgent operation where they used C-4. And they saw through is the group that claimed responsibility for this attack. So, it would fit together. Why would they use C-4? It packed a powerful punch. They need less of it.
BURNETT: Right.
CRUICKSHANK: It's easy to mold so that you can have a shape charge so that it will project outwards in a particular direction. And also, it was very stable so it's not going to go off prematurely for example when they are playing this taxiing to the runway. So, many reasons why you'd want to use C-4.
BURNETT: And in terms of the amount of it, ten tons, am I correct in saying we are comparing a ten-ton stock pile to a bomb that would have been, could have been one pound or less.
CRUICKSHANK: That's absolutely right. They clearly had plentiful supplies of C-4. That figure refers to both C-4 and TNT. But they've been able to get explosives from Libya, from Gaza, from other sources, those groups. ISIS and Sinai say, it would not have been difficult for them to get C-4 on a plane as they had an insider. I think this does point away from the idea of a lone wolf style plot, just an individual at the airport not connected to a group. Because it's relatively difficult for just one individual to get ahold of this.
BURNETT: Right. And certainly of course. So, A would mean it's linked to this group. And B, of course means that they have a lot more where this came from. Phil, to the point here about who's in- charge. You just heard Ben's report on Osama al-Masri, the man you see in all those video pieces, blurred face. He's very much still a mystery. Not a name we've heard a lot about. But he appears to be calling his own shots, not acting on orders from a quote/unquote, "ISIS central." Is that a game changer?
MUDD: It is in a sense that let's draw a quick contrast here. One we're hunting -- when I was back at the CIA, hunting al Qaeda, you have a threat from an organization that obviously had years to plan, had dozens or hundreds of members, had a tremendous geographic space under the Taliban and Afghanistan, but we had a center of operations what we called al-Qaeda core, that we could target with operations that included human source, intercepted phone and e-mails. Think of what's happened in the past 15 years, Erin.
If this is true that ISIS and Sinai did this independently, think of the other ISIS cells that we witnessed cropping up around the world in the last year or two. Bangladesh, Pakistan, pardon me, Libya, Tunisia, obviously Syria and Iraq. If you're an intelligence organization trying to collect independently on all those places simultaneously, the intelligence problem has multiplied in contrast to what we saw with al Qaeda.
[19:10:36] BURNETT: And Paul, I would imagine, you now in a sense have an arms race. Right? You have these different affiliates, they all want to up each other. You have al Qaeda which needs to now quote-unquote, "prove itself" which would add to the terrifying at least likelihood or at least intent of more of these things happening.
CRUIKSHANK: That's absolutely right. And one of the reasons why ISIS may have carried this out is because of that competition globally with al Qaeda for recruits and financing. This is going to turbo charge their standing in the global Jihadi movement if they were indeed responsible. I think it should also be pointed out that for weeks and weeks the leadership of ISIS in Syria and Iraq have been in the public messaging saying we need to attack Russia. So, the group in Sinai would have heard these public messages and may have responded to them.
BURNETT: All right. Well, thank you both very much. And next an OUTFRONT investigation. We're going to show you what a hidden bomb looks like as it passes through an airport scanner.
Plus, is Jeb Bush still running for president? That actually is a trending question on Google right now. Tonight, of course, make or break for Mr. Bush.
And breaking news, a deadly plane crash in Ohio. The details are just coming in. We have a live report. We'll be going there this hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:15:01] BURNETT: Breaking news, Egypt now saying it will accept help from the United States on the Metrojet crash investigation. The NTSB will be the first Americans directly involved. It appears though that it is strictly for the engines which were Pratt and Whitney.
Also tonight, U.S. officials telling CNN that a military grade explosive was likely used to take down Flight 9268. Officials say, only explosives of that strength could have blown the passenger jet out of the sky. And terrorists in Sinai have easy access to those types of explosives, including C-4. These are the same explosives that have been used in other attacks. So, how difficult would it be to get them through airport security here in the United States? It is the crucial question tonight.
And Miguel Marquez has this special OUTFRONT report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Can you spot the explosive?
RYAN MORRIS, CEO, TRIPWIRE OPERATIONS GROUP: That's all it's going to look like to a screener.
MARQUEZ: That is actually a half pound of the explosive C-4. To you or me it might look like a slab of cheese or chocolate bar on this older model airport baggage x-ray. That is the same half pound of C-4 exploding. A high-powered explosive tough to get in the United States, but it's used by militaries around the world and is a favorite of terror groups, as well. Used in attacks on both the "USS Cole" and on U.S. military housing at Saudi Arabia's Khobar Tower. And even if C-4 isn't available, there are homemade alternatives.
Peter Jones, COO of Tripwire Operations Group was an explosive specialist for the Department of Homeland Security. He is showing us a range of homemade explosives that can be made with off the shelf products, not as powerful as C-4, but even a small amount could be devastating to a plane.
PETER JONES, CHIEF OPERATIONS OFFICER, TRIPWIRE: This is metal. This was explosive that was made out of a sugar substitute. And that's all some chemistry --
MARQUEZ: How much explosives created this hole?
JONES: Approximately 80 grams.
MARQUEZ: Eighty grams but not a lot.
JONES: No. Not at all.
MARQUEZ: Those homemade explosives don't look like much when going through this, again, older model airport x-ray machine. Newer x-ray machines are more sophisticated and can distinguish suspect items more readily. That is the same half pound of homemade explosive being detonated. Investigators believe if a bomb was placed on Metrojet 9268, it was likely done by circumventing normal airport security. Even here in the U.S., there are concerns. Last June the Department of Homeland Security office of inspector general found banned items got through TSA airport security screening nationwide. Sixty seven of 70 times. The revelation of the report led to the reassignment of the TSA director. The Department also saying, travelers are protected by multiple layers of security, baggage screening, only one of many seen in unseen ways TSA evaluates risk.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MARQUEZ: TSA also says that they go through some two billion bag a year, both checked and the stuff you carry through airport security. They've also caught C-4 going through security before in Yuma, Arizona back in 2011. An army private had a little tiny amount, half an ounce in a checked bag. They caught it on his hands when they did a secondary screening on his hands. They then went back and checked his bags manually and found that half ounce of C-4 back in 2011. So, it is tough to take on a plane. But unless they are watching carefully, unless those machines pick it up, it is possible. BURNETT: All right. Miguel, thank you very much. And I know
you're an expert on the show said that half an ounce could be enough placed in the right place to actually bring down a major jet.
OUTFRONT tonight, Mary Schiavo, former crash investigator who served as the inspector general for the U.S. Department of Transportation along with Jim Maxwell, former FBI special agent bomb technician.
Mary, two billion bags a year. That's a pretty incredible, you know, we all go through airport security. There is such pressure for them to just screen and move things along. Are you confident they would catch something like this?
MARY SCHIAVO, FORMER INSPECTOR GENERAL, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION: Well, no. And it would depend where they put the explosive material into the airport anyway. All the bags in the United States that are checked do go through the screening. It's computed tomography system, a CT scan and they also do tests for explosives on the checked bags, on the carry on bags. Everybody has seen the machines. Again, it's a CT scan. And then spot checking with the swabs, the EDS, Explosive Detection System.
BURNETT: And those would pick up -- I know things like nitrates, right? But if you're not -- if you don't get picked for one of those swabs --
SCHIAVO: Then, if it's on your person as it doesn't go through the checked bag, then it wouldn't be picked up. It picks up, you know, they can pick up nitrates, you know, dynamite, plastic explosives. Sometimes even the glistering and hand sanitizer. But they're very sensitive. But it's still a hit or miss. It's spot checking for the EDS system which are they swabs.
[19:20:08] BURNETT: Right. Which is pretty terrifying. But at the same time when you think about the number of people flying, what would be the other alternative?
I mean, Jim, I guess a big question is, how hard is it for terrorists to even get these kinds of explosives?
JIM MAXWELL, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT BOMB TECHNICIAN: Well, military grade munitions in the United States would be extremely difficult to get your hands on. In Egypt or the Middle East, my experience in Iraq, it's very common to have access to military munitions. If you look at the results of Arab Spring, Libya, their military crumbles. There is no accounting for their munitions. Same thing going on in Syria right now. And I'm sure in certain parts of Egypt. So, access to military grade munitions is not unusual in that part of the world.
BURNETT: And Mary --
MAXWELL: Here in the United States, it's very difficult.
BURNETT: Difficult and of course though what Miguel was showing in that special report is, you don't necessarily need military grade. Right? You're just, I mean, you know, you're looking at things that you might have at home whether it be chocolate.
MAXWELL: Well, sure. Historically, if you look at go back to 1993 and the First World Trade Center bombing, it was a nitrate and urea, and they distilled their own nitro glycerin to make that bomb. There were many examples. So, Oklahoma City, ammonium nitrate.
BURNETT: Right.
MAXWELL: The Boston Marathon bombers. They used pecoriate (ph) mixtures that were found, essentially gun powder that was found in fireworks. So, here in the U.S., the bombings have been limited to improvised devices. Where they had to scramble to find explosive material.
SCHIAVO: And if we go back to the worst plot that fortunately was foiled before it was carried out and that was the Bojinka plot, the plan in 1995 back when I was inspector general, it was to take down 12 jetliners across the Pacific.
BURNETT: Right.
SCHIAVO: They were going to use a nitroglycerin bomb with a timer. And they had concealed that under a watch. And they were going to place it under certain seats and they figured out which were the weakest points on the plane. So, it doesn't have to be the most sophisticated stuff. It just have to be placed right.
BURNETT: It has to be placed right. Now in terms of catching things. Last night Mary, major scare at Miami International Airport. We'll show the pictures of bag cleared security, then raised alarms. So, I guess you could say at least it raised alarms. But this is what actually happened on a plane. Officers swarmed the plane. Passengers had to place their hands above their head. This actually happened. This is not a movie, this happened last night in Miami. They turned out to say these items were not a threat, but I mean, this is pretty scary that this could happen.
SCHIAVO: And then this goes back to the problem that we had with screeners being alert. Obviously, the CT machines that continues tomography will show this, the computed tomography but the screeners have to be watching it at all times. But by allowing this person to go through and then realizing that they had seen a threat on the CT machine means that they had to go get them and do this. That was a problem that we had even before the Homeland Security and the TSA when the airport ran security. After like 20 minutes on the job, you start to zone out. And you just don't pay attention to the threats. That problem persists.
BURNETT: There is also this issue. As you see footage like this, Jim, you know over the summer. The TSA failed to identify 69 active workers right in aviation with access to planes who had links to terrorism. That is a pretty stunning thing.
MAXWELL: Yes, it is. And I think the biggest issue, you can have all the bells and whistles, but you need personnel that are trained to identify these things. You know, when you teach a class on x-ray interpretation, what something looks like up close and what it looks like under an x-ray are two different things. And that's a trait that has to be acquired. It has to be honed. And it's a difficult point to try to keep a proper number of people because fatigue is an issue. Fatigue is an issue with the screeners. It's also an issue with K-9 units. Dogs get tired, too. And you have to have an adequate supply of these people for roll over to make sure that you're working at the optimal level.
BURNETT: All right. Well, thanks very much to both of you.
And OUTFRONT next, we are following more breaking news of a deadly crash in Ohio. A plane on its final approach slamming into a building. We are live on the scene with this late-breaking story. Mary will be with me to talk about exactly what may have happened in this horrible crash.
And its top search today on Google, is Jeb Bush still running for president? Can Bush handle the pressure at tonight's debate to deliver and you won't believe what Hillary Clinton said today.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:28:38] BURNETT: Tonight, a night that can make or break the campaigns of the Republican candidates. The top eight will face off later this evening. It will be center stage for the two front-runners Donald Trump and Ben Carson, both of whom got their code names for Secret Service protection today. Trump is mogul and Carson is Eli, which is a biblical reference. No doubt they're both happy with those.
Dana Bash is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: People are getting away with murder. I never saw anything like this.
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Without a hint of irony, the billionaire reality TV star who rewrites political rules every day is calling out Ben Carson for an unconventional campaign.
TRUMP: You stab somebody and the newspapers say you didn't do it. This is the only election in history where you're better off if you stab somebody.
BASH: For Carson, anecdotes about overcoming a pathological temper as a child like attempting to hit his mother with a hammer is a selling point for many GOP voters enthralled with his story of redemption. But Trump is trying to reframe it as just plain crazy.
TRUMP: If you try and hit your mother over the head with a hammer, your poll numbers go up. I never saw anything like it.
BASH: The Carson campaign is now trying to defuse that situation with some humor, releasing this new top ten spoof videos of Carson's youthful indiscretions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ben Carson checked out a library book and returned it two days late.
BASH: While Carson and Trump battle for frontrunner status, another drama will be playing out tonight. Jeb Bush versus his former protege Marco Rubio.
JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Or just resign and let someone else take the job.
BASH: Bush's direct hit on Rubio in the last debate two weeks ago backfired, big time.
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Someone has convinced you that attacking me is going to help you.
BASH: Ahead of tonight's debate, team Rubio released a video called "before the phony attacks," Bush in his own words praising Rubio.
BUSH: I'm a huge Marco fan.
BASH: The Bush campaign released its own game-day video featuring their candidate the way they wish voters would see hem, an energetic, conservative leader.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) affirmative action, pro-life --
BUSH: We're always different, everyone's different. Everyone's different.
BASH: Team Bush says they're being bombarded by often conflicting advice about how to resurrect his fledgling candidacy. "The New York Times" reports the Bush super PAC, legally forbidden from talking to the campaign, is testing an attack on Rubio as unelectable, in part because he opposes any abortion exceptions.
RUBIO: When there is conception, that is a human life in the early stages of its total development, and it is worthy of the protection of our laws.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: The problem with that line of attack, if Jeb Bush or his campaign chooses to do so, is that right now it is all about Republican primary voters. And they're not so focused necessarily on electability, meaning who can beat the Democrat in November. It's who fits the Republican principles the most.
And, Erin, I'm told that tonight, Ted Cruz is actually going to try to prove he is that person by revealing and releasing a new government spending plan, at least that means cutting spending pretty dramatically. We'll see that as well as many other moments, I'm sure -- Erin.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Dana, thank you very much.
And OUTFRONT now, Republican strategist Ana Navarro. She's a Jeb Bush supporter and friend of Marco Rubio, and former Reagan White House political director, Jeffrey Lord. He's a Donald Trump supporter.
Ana, Jeb Bush has said he has to be better in the debates. After the last debate, you felt pretty damned glum. Those were your questions. The most Googled question today about Jeb Bush was, is Jeb Bush still running for president?
Is tonight make or break?
ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, I don't know if it's make or break or do or die. That is a little melodramatic. But it is hugely important. And it can be very determinant in changing the narrative.
There is hiding. Jeb Bush has had a very tough 10 days in the last, you know, after the first debate, after the last debate, and he needs to turn it around. He has been limping along. You know, he needs to show he's got the heart, that he's got the conviction. He needs to show up. He needs to show up and play. He needs to do more than just smile graciously at his opponents.
BURNETT: Jeff, I want to play something for you. Obviously, this is a big night for Donald Trump. But I want you to listen to what a man said about Carly Fiorina today to Hillary Clinton. This is appropriate for Donald Trump. The man said he was laid off from Hewlett-Packard when Fiorina was CEO.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every time I see her on TV, I want to reach through and strangle her.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, I know that doesn't sound very nice.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I wouldn't mess with you.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Now, to some, Jeff, that question brings back memories of a question Donald Trump faced at a rally in September that Hillary Clinton slammed him over. Here's Donald and here's Hillary's response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP SUPPORTER: We have a problem in this country. It's called Muslims. We know our current president is one. You know he's not even an American.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We need this question --
CLINTON: He knew or should have known what that man was asking was not only way out of bounds, it was untrue. He should have from the beginning repudiated that kind of rhetoric. If that person had been at my event, I would have called him out on it, and I would have said that from the very beginning, that has no place in a political discussion like the one we are trying to have here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: All right. Jeff, she sure doesn't call out the man who criticized Fiorina, is she being a hypocrite?
JEFF LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. This is true to form for Hillary Clinton. I mean, far be it from me to defend her. To make something of this guy's comment to her is crazy. It's political correctness to the max.
But the point is, political correctness is infecting all of society. I mean, on college campuses, it's really not a very healthy thing at all.
One of the things that Donald Trump is famous for is being as his daughter said when he announced, he's totally politically incorrect. We need to get back to some sanity here or we're going to have a problem.
BURNETT: So, you're saying she's a hypocrite but it's OK.
LORD: No, I'm saying it's not OK. I'm saying we should call her out for her political correctness. I would let her for this guy's -- her reaction to this guy's comments. I would not let her off of what she said about Donald Trump, because she wants to play the game and it's not a game.
[19:35:01] BURNETT: Ana?
NAVARRO: I don't let her off -- I don't let her off for either one. I will tell you, I do think this is manna from heaven for Carly Fiorina. It seems that every couple of weeks, you know, Carly is getting hit either by Trump for her face, or, you know, by my friends on TV for the way she performed in a debate, and now by Hillary.
Carly turns lemons into lemonade. They turn them into fund- raising solicitations and she turns them into free earned media. She does a great job at it because she is astute.
So, I think -- I think, one, Hillary Clinton missed an opportunity. One of the best moments of the McCain 2008 campaign was when he stood up to a questioner who made negative comments, personal about President Obama. It's a chance to look presidential. It's a chance to take the high road. Hillary Clinton missed that chance.
And two, this is good for Carly. Girl, go squeeze those lemons.
BURNETT: Go squeeze those lemons.
(LAUGHTER)
BURNETT: Thank you, both. I appreciate it. All right. Thanks very much to both of you for being with us.
And Kathy Griffin is actually here with me now.
I want to say to everyone, this isn't normal. She just actually literally stopped by our set.
KATHY GRIFFIN, COMEDIAN: Thank you, Erin.
If you want to talk about a hypocrite, that would be Anderson Cooper who's not here rehearsing with me for New Year's Eve. That's right. This year, we are on from 8:00 p.m. until 12:30.
And the only Carly I know about is "iCarly", which is a show starring Miranda Cosgrove, and I think it was underrated.
So, back to Ana Navarro and the other gray-haired guy who is not Anderson.
BURNETT: Yes, and Anderson is the hypocrite here, right?
GRIFFIN: Clearly. In this presidential race, he is a hypocrite because he's not here getting me a free dinner or taking me out on the town or wining and dining me in some way. And also, on New Year's Eve --
BURNETT: You know what? I am obligated to say, you can't bad mouth Anderson. I've got to be kind to Anderson on this show. I'm standing up for you. That's all I'm saying.
GRIFFIN: Are we going to talk about the Kardashian after this or?
BURNETT: No, not in this show. They're banned. NO.
(LAUGHTER)
BURNETT: All right. Kathy Griffin, thank you.
GRIFFIN: New Year's Eve, I'll see you, right?
BURNETT: Yes. I will be watching. Speaking of Anderson, he is around somewhere. He just doesn't want to talk to Kathy. He will be breaking down tonight's Republican debate and looking at who won and who loss. That's tonight at 11:00 Eastern, right here on CNN.
All right. Meantime, next on OUTFRONT, breaking news, a fiery plane crash in Ohio. We are live on the scene of this breaking story. Tonight, these images are just coming in. And after two university officials were forced to resign for
their handling of racial unrest, students across the nation reporting acts of racism and hate crimes on campus. That is a special OUTFRONT report tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:41:35] BURNETT: Breaking news: we are just getting details of a deadly plane crash in Ohio. We want to show the pictures officials say the jet which seats 10 passengers crashed into an apartment building in Akron, Ohio, erupting into flames.
Kevin Freeman of our affiliate WJW is on the scene tonight live.
And, Kevin, what can you tell us? What do you know?
KEVIN FREEMAN, WJW REPORTER: Good evening.
We understand that nine people were onboard that jet. Ohio state highway patrol had not confirmed that number. They only confirmed the pilot and co-pilot dead, although they do say there were more people on the plane and there were no survivors.
Now, according to witnesses, this plane was on approach. It just left Dayton and it was landing here at Akron Fulton airport. It was on approach to the airport when a witness says that they heard sputtering and then they saw the plane actually tilt from one side to the other, clip a utility pole and then slam into this apartment building that we understand has about four apartments. Talked to another man who said he went door-to-door to see if anyone was inside those apartments.
We understand no one on the ground hurt. But there could be up to nine people killed onboard that plane. Now, the NTSB is on its way. FAA investigators have already been here. We are told that the plane is just about fully intact inside of that apartment building, although it is totally burned out. And that is causing a problem for investigators trying to get in there and identify exactly how many people were onboard.
So, right now, we do believe nine people were onboard, but they have not confirmed that total number. They only confirmed a pilot and co-pilot dead after this plane crashes into an apartment building here in Akron.
BURNETT: So, Kevin, I know you're confirming the tragedy here that they did die, the plane being fully intact, of course, very shocking to hear. How far is the airport from where this crash happened?
FREEMAN: Well, it's just a couple of miles away. In fact, this is where neighbors talk about hearing planes on their flight path coming over here all the time. It's just a couple of miles away from here.
It is not Akron's main airport. It is not a commercial airport. It is a smaller airport. But this was a corporate jet, business type jet that holds up to ten people, according to the highway patrol.
BURNETT: Kevin, thank you very much.
Mary Schiavo is back with me now.
And, Mary, you investigated a lot of plane crashes. I know, as you were hearing Kevin reporting, you sort of reacted with a little bit of surprise when you heard the plane was fully intact in that inferno.
MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, it is. When you would hit a building like that, this is a twin corporate jet, a twin jet plane. They're fairly sturdy. They've been around for a long time.
But to survive intact after going into a building is rather unusual. You do have a break-up. The engulfing of flames, of course, is sadly the typical result of that.
BURNETT: Right. And, of course, the tragedy is when you hear intact, you think could there be survivors, but Kevin saying no at this point. That there are none.
SCHIAVO: No, because when you do have an impact like that, and I worked several crashes of this kind of plane, I mean, once you have it engulfed in flames, it's very difficult to get out. The flame makes it pretty hard.
BURNETT: So, what do you think could have happened here? He is reporting this was on approach to an airport. It would have been just a couple of miles away.
SCHIAVO: Well, you know, there's as many ways that a plane could have a plane crash or causes of a plane crash, practically. But this plane has had issued in accidents in the past concerning the air speed.
BURNETT: This particular type of plane.
[19:45:00] SCHIAVO: This particular model.
BURNETT: Yes, this model.
SCHIAVO: When you get to the runway, there have been instances where they haven't been able to stop this plane on the runway. So, it's possible that the -- it's just speculation but the pilot was concerned about the speed. You want to come in slow enough to land.
But having been this low and clipped a utility pole or power line, that doesn't make any sense. So, you want to know why was this plane so low? Saying a plane sputtered doesn't sound like this kind of a plane because there are two jet engines.
So, sputtering could mean some kind of problem with the plane was experiencing. You only just think of a jet engine as sputtering, but it does suggest an engine problem, which might explain why the plane was so low. A lot of accidents with this plane happen after you have a go-
round. You had a problem landing. You come around again to take another --
BURNETT: Of course, we don't know that yet at this point.
SCHIAVO: Right.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Mary, thank you very much.
SCHIAVO: Thank you.
BURNETT: And OUTFRONT next, charges of racism on college campuses across the nation. We have a special report.
And on a much lighter note, Jeanne Moos introducing us to a little guy who can really clear a crowd.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:50:07] BURNETT: Tonight, a campus in chaos. The University of Missouri students say it's just the beginning. They insist the school repeatedly failed to address incidents of racism and hate crimes on campus. But it's not just Missouri. Colleges across the country are dealing with rampant racism.
And Boris Sanchez is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(CHANTING)
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was an incident of blatant racism caught on camera, two students expelled in the Sigma Alpha Epsilon chapter at the University of Oklahoma shut down in March, and there are other cases of racial tension sparking outrage on campuses across the country.
After days of protests, the University of Missouri's president Tim Wolfe forced to step down follow a hunger strike by a student and a threatened boycott by the school's football team after Wolfe did little to respond to several racially charged incidents on campus including a swastika drawn in feces at a campus dorm.
Protests also erupting this week at Yale, after an SAE fraternity member allegedly blocked a student from going into their house party because she wasn't white. SAE denies the allegations.
Last month, a Kanye West themed party thrown by a fraternity at UCLA sparked protests after some party-goers allegedly wore black face.
In 2014, a gangster themed party with racial overtones at the SAE house at Clemson University led to that chapter also closing its doors. Some racially charged incidents have been more threatening. In
2014, the Sigma Phi Epsilon fraternity at the University of Mississippi was shut down after three members tied a noose around the statue of the school's first black student.
CHARLTON MCILWAIN, ASSOCIATE DEAN OF FACULTY DEVELOPMENT & DIVERSITY, NYU: It takes a moment where things come to a head for us to really say, oh, something's going on.
SANCHEZ: NYU professor and University of Oklahoma alum Charlton McIlwain says racial tensions on college campuses are not new, and often don't get the attention they deserve.
MCILWAIN: I really think that the problem is always there, and I think that part of the problem that folks on college campuses make administrators, presidents and otherwise is to think that there's nothing going on and that these things kind of suddenly come out of the blue when in actuality, they're there, and folks are listening.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: And now people are watching across the country, Boris. What are the demands at University of Missouri?
SANCHEZ: There are several. Among them, an immediate meeting with Governor Jay Nixon, Missouri Governor Jay Nixon. Aside from that, they also want more access and influence into the election of the next university president. It's unclear right now, though, if those demands will be met and when they may be met.
BURNETT: All right. Of course, students say this is just the beginning of their demands.
Thank you very much, Boris.
And OUTFRONT next, Jeanne Moos proving that even jaded New Yorkers can be moved by a prank.
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[19:57:36] BURNETT: A new pizza rat has New Yorkers jumping out of their skin. Why is this one so brazen?
Here's Jeanne Moos.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Who doesn't like a slice of pizza to go and, boy, does it go.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my gosh!
MOOS: When toted by pizza rat.
(SCREAMING)
MOOS: Not the old pizza rat that became a sensation two months ago.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pizza rat has become such a big celebrity.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The internet blew up over this video of a rat carrying a whole slice of pizza.
MOOS: Make way for pizza rat's new remote controlled replica.
(SCREAMING)
MOOS: Used to scare the bejesus out of New Yorkers.
(SCREAMING)
MOOS: By award winning prankster Jesse Wellens in his prank versus prank YouTube channel.
UNIDENTIFEID FEMALE: Oh my gosh.
MOOS: Jesse got the idea when he noticed this taxidermied rat in the New York shop.
JESSE WELLENS, PIZZA RAT PRANKSTER: I know the viral sensation of the pizza rat already and I said, why not bring them back. And carry it around in a handy pizza box.
DENNIS RAODY, HOST, "HOWTOPRANKITUP": When you're ready to deploy, you pop it open.
MOOS: Making a remote controlled pizza rat isn't rocket science. This whole thing cost Jesse 116 bucks. He and his fellow prankster bought a cheap remote controlled car, got rid of the car's frame and glued cardboard to the chassis and glued on a slice of pizza.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get yourself a taxidermy rat and this online eBay.
MOOS: Glue on the rat and voila.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So easy to drive.
MOOS: Jesse drove it around downtown and in Times Square.
Look at it. Don't you think someone would stomp on the thing? How old is the pizza?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I bought it like two hours ago.
MOOS: Oh, good. Only one person stepped on it and that seemed like an accident. The prank ended with pizza rat disappearing.
WELLENS: I had a backup rat. It's in the sewer.
MOOS: Where a real rat is probably wondering who ordered home delivery.
Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: You got to give that guy credit. He didn't just give a plastic rat. He got a taxidermy rat.
All right. Thank you so much for joining us. Be sure to set your DVR to record OUTFRONT so you can watch us at any time. We'll see you back here same time tomorrow night.
"AC360" with Anderson Cooper starts right now.
