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Erin Burnett Outfront
Trump: I'm The Worst Thing That's Ever Happened to ISIS; Trump Floats Independent Bid Amid GOP Criticism; Trump: I'm Not a Bigot; FBI Tracing Killer's Finances. Aired 7-8:00p ET
Aired December 08, 2015 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:11] ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Next breaking news, Trump tripling down on his ban against Muslims entering the United States. Telling ABC News, it would be the worst thing that ever happened to ISIS.
And more breaking news on the San Bernardino terror attack. The FBI following a money trail tonight now looking at the family bank accounts.
An OUTFRONT investigation, the tape that the Chicago Police Department does not want you to see. Is there something to hide? We have this exclusively. Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening, I'm Erin Burnett OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news, Donald Trump tripling down just moments ago telling Barbara Walters he does not regret his proposed ban on Muslims entering America. The presidential frontrunner on the Republican side indicating -- insisting his plan does not play into the hands of terrorists.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm worst thing that's ever happened to ISIS. The people in my party fully understand that. They're running against me. For the most part they have no poll numbers. I'm leading by a lot. They get it. They are trying to get publicity for themselves. You know, when I came out against illegal immigration, everybody fought the same thing. Two weeks later everybody was on my side including the members of my own party.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Also tonight, Trump defending himself against accusations that he's a bigot.
BARBARA WALTERS, HOST: Are you a bigot?
BURNETT: Not at all. Probably the least of anybody you've ever met.
WALTERS: Because?
TRUMP: Because I'm not. I'm a person that has common sense. I'm a smart person. I know how to run things. I know how to make America great again. This is about making America great again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: A new CNN poll today giving Trump a commanding lead in the first primary state of New Hampshire. Trump has 32 percent of the vote. His closest rival Marco Rubio, 18 percentage points behind.
Dana Bash is OUTFRONT. And Dana, Trump not backing down tonight, not even close to it.
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Not at all. He is not a man who regrets things, especially this. Because despite universal condemnation, not just from his Republican rivals, but also from party leaders, Trump's sources think those statements are only going to help him solidify his status as front-runner.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This isn't about being politically correct.
TRUMP: We have a problem in this country and we should solve it, because you are going to have many more world trade centers if you don't solve it. Many, many more and probably beyond.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Never mind backing down, Donald Trump is doubling down on a plan to block Muslims from entering America.
TRUMP: Total and complete shutdown.
BASH: Even in the face of unprecedented fury within his own party, from the Republican House Speaker --
REP. PAUL RYAN (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: Normally, I do not comment on what's going on in the presidential election. I will take an exception today. This is not conservatism.
BASH: To the Republican Senate leader.
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), MAJORITY LEADER: This suggestion is completely and totally inconsistent with American values.
BASH: To former Vice President Dick Cheney, revered by conservatives for pushing tough tactics to keep Americans safe after 9/11.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This cold notion that somehow we can just say no more Muslims, just ban all religion goes against everything we stand for and believe in.
BASH: Voters in today's New Hampshire poll say Trump is the best candidate to take on ISIS. Just like Monday's CNN/ORC poll in Iowa. On CNN's New Day he was eager to defend his new plan.
TRUMP: I'm talking about a temporary situation until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on. BASH: Even Republican Party Chair Reince Priebus who tries to
stay out of the GOP presidential fight weighed in saying, "I don't agree, we need to aggressively take on radical Islamic terrorism, but not at the expense of our American values." That months after Priebus convinced all of Trump's competitors to pledge to support him if he is the nominee making it awkward as they slammed him now.
JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's not about the blowhards out there just saying stuff. That's not a program. That's not a plan. This is serious business.
CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump always plays on everyone's worst instincts and fears.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know how you make America great again? Tell Donald Trump to go to hell.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Now, the President spokesman also made a strong statement today, clearly trying to stir the pot politically for Republicans. Many are worried about the damage Trump may do to the party, but as for Trump, he's making noises Erin again tonight about a GOP nightmare scenario. That of course is an independent Trump candidacy. He tweeted this afternoon that if he launched a third party bid, the vast majority of his supporters would back him and not the Republican nominee -- Erin.
BURNETT: Right. Thank you very much, Dana Bash. We'll have much more on that. "USA Today" poll showing that Trump would be right about that.
I want to go to Tom Foreman in Washington now though. Tom, let's talk about the practicality of this plan. Islam, one of the biggest religions in the world. How many people would Trump's plan impact?
[19:05:13] TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, an awful lot. Look, Christianity is the biggest religion in the world. Islam behind it with 1.6 billion people out there and they're in a lot of places. We always talk about North Africa and the Middle East. Of course there's a percentage there. But the really big numbers, the big percentages are in Turkey and Pakistan and India and Indonesia. And when you start going beyond those areas and start talking about the United States, well then the numbers are actually really, really small in terms of who is already here.
In fact, if you took everybody that would be out there, you watch how they grow over the years, this is a growing population, Pew has estimated that by 2050 the numbers will be almost equal with Christianity. And in the United States if we go to look at north and South America right now, the numbers are really, really tiny right now, but immigration trends are coming this way. South America, North America, all together, Erin. Look at that. Less than one percent of the world Muslim population, but that number is growing -- Erin.
BURNETT: And Will Donald Trump get their vote? I mean, you know, when the issue happened with Mexicans, he said, oh, I am going to get the Hispanic vote. Will he get their vote?
FOREMAN: Well, it doesn't look like it. Look, if you look at the growth of people in this country who are Muslim who have been coming here by immigration, look at that. Back in 1990, about 50,000 a year. We're now up over 115,000 a year. And if you move all the way up here to 2030, they are expecting 130,000 a year. Where are these people coming from? Well, they are coming from a series of countries out there with the biggest ones right now are look at there, Pakistan, 18,000 a year, 14,000 a year from Bangladesh, 12,000 a year from Somalia. And in this country, we know that about half of the Muslim population is an immigrant half. They weren't born here. They are leaning democratic in their voting. And they are less dogmatic.
In a way he's describing them doesn't match with them at all. If you compare the way that they go to church, Erin, go to their services and pray and make religion a central tenet of their life, American Muslims are a whole lot like American Christians according to Pew. And in many ways, they don't have as much in common with the people that Donald Trump seems to be warning America about, yet they could take big offense -- Erin.
BURNETT: Interesting, some of those numbers. Twelve thousand from Somalia. Half of the Muslims in this country not born in this country. Fascinating. Tom, thank you.
OUTFRONT now, our political commentator and former Reagan White House Political Director Jeffrey Lord, a Donald Trump supporter. And our senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin, also political commentator Ben Ferguson. Okay, let me start with you, Jeff Toobin. On the legality of this issue, OK? Forget the politics. Forget the morality. Let's talk about the legality.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Right.
BURNETT: Possible?
TOOBIN: You know, I try to be a reasonable person. And I try not to, you know, make categorical statements. Let me make a categorical statement. The idea that you could keep Muslims as a group out of the United States is it violates several different provisions of the constitution. Freedom of religion. Freedom to right to equal protection of the law. Requirement of no religion test. There is a reason why there is no law on the books and never has been one in American history that singles out a single religion for different treatment.
BURNETT: OK. So, Trump supporters are pointing to this, title 8 section 1182 of the U.S. code. You know about this. Let me read it for our viewers. Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation and for such period as he shall deem necessary suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens.
TOOBIN: Right.
BURNETT: That reads to me like he can absolutely do this.
TOOBIN: It says that he can designate a class of people. But his designation cannot violate the constitution. When that has been invoked before like in the Haitian boat lift, when there was so many people coming, it was a tremendous danger to the Haitians themselves, they could designate the class to be rejected from American borders. That's an appropriate use of that law. That law has never been used to designate a religion or a political group.
BURNETT: All right. So, Jeff Lord, Dick Cheney has says, he's gone too far. That is saying something, right? Dick Cheney has been criticized by a lot of people by being too tough on terror. You just heard Donald Trump say in response to the question, he is not a bigot. Is it a problem though that he is even being asked that question?
JEFFREY LORD, FORMER REAGAN WHITE HOUSE POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, you know, I think this is the way politics goes. I mean, these people are, I mean, a lot of his opponents are after him on something like this. I mean, first of all, in terms of his being a bigot, let me just sort of point out the obvious here. Number one, his daughter Ivanka is Jewish. His in-laws are Jewish. I don't think he's an anti-Semite. Number two, it is Donald Trump who opened up his Mar A Lago Club and advanced the cause of getting African-Americans and Jews into private clubs in the Palm Beach area. So, I mean, I think his record speaks for itself, not to mention his family.
[19:10:27] BURNETT: Ben Ferguson, you know, I was talking to someone in the Middle East, a billionaire, Muslim. His comment about Donald Trump was, it's all politics, but we Muslims also must fix our act. Not exactly what I expected to hear to be honest with you?
BEN FERGUSON, RADIO HOST, "THE BEN FERGUSON SHOW": Well, you have extremism. And that is what Donald Trump is playing into right now. The fact there is a real threat from Muslim extremists. And it's obvious there is a problem with the system. Because the system did not catch this woman that came in on a fiance visa. And she was radicalized based on what the FBI said for quite some time. But let me be clear about one thing, if you want to say that you want to stop visas or people coming in from certain parts of the world that are hotbeds to terrorism, that is something that I think many Republicans will get behind and defend that idea.
When you say it's a religion, that is where this was not well thought out by Donald Trump and/or his campaign. And we are even seeing them walking it back now. Saying it would be for a short period of time, would it be the indefinitely. You cannot have a religious test, as he described it. But here's the other thing. People can lie. And this is the part that bothers me the most about what Donald Trump said.
BURNETT: Right.
FERGUSON: What are you going to do? Are you going to look at someone and say, are you a Muslim? And if they look at you -- even if they are dressed in Muslim garb and they want to get into this country to attack us as a member of ISIS or al Qaeda, could they just look at you and say, I'm not a Muslim. And then what are you going to say? I'm going to say, no, you can't come in because I think you're lying to me. The idea that you could implement this maybe the most insane part of anything that he said. Because people can just lie about their religion.
BURNETT: So, that's a fair point. Jeff Lord, the FBI is now investigating an incident, I'm going to show the video, surveillance video, a severed pig's head was thrown at a mosque in Philadelphia last night. Pretty disgusting to watch this. The mayor of Philadelphia spoke out about this and Donald Trump today. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR MICHAEL NUTTER (D), PHILADELPHIA: He's an ashole. I mean, how can I take seriously any foreign policy idea from someone like him? I mean, it's impossible. So, he has no idea what he's talking about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Jeff? Lord, sorry.
LORD: Which one? There's two of us. You want me --
BURNETT: You. Yes.
LORD: Yes. I mean, listen, there are always going to be people out there -- whoever did this thing in Philadelphia is responsible for their actions. I mean, we get into these situations where people say or do things out there, then we want to blame it on somebody else. Not just Donald Trump. We want to blame it on President Obama or this or that person. I mean, this is baloney. You are responsible for your own actions. Whoever did this did this. It has nothing to do with Donald Trump.
TOOBIN: And it's beautiful that Jeff pointed out that Donald Trump is the Rosa Parks of Palm Beach. And that, you know, that he really has done so many beautiful things in Palm Beach.
LORD: The anti-defamation league liked it.
TOOBIN: Well, I'm sure they do. But the point is that, you know, there is actually investigations of people coming into this country already. You know, the idea that World Trade Centers are coming. You know, this hysteria and panic is inappropriate. There are not people dying of terrorism all the time in this country. There are many more people who die from lightning strikes than from terrorism. People should be serious and not hysterical.
FERGUSON: OK. Let's be serious about what happened in San Bernardino. And let's be serious about the fact of what just happened in Paris. To imply that people should not be overreacting or not be fearful of ISIS and/or these terrorists that are doing these attacks is incredibly unrealistic and out of touch with the average American. Remember right now --
BURNETT: OK.
FERGUSON: New polls say the majority of Americans are actually in favor of putting boots on the ground in Syria. We wouldn't have had that a couple of years ago.
BURNETT: Yes.
FERGUSON: And the only reason we have that now is because people do not trust the President of the United States to have a clear vision for what he is going to do to fight ISIS. And that is why Donald Trump is where he is.
BURNETT: All right. Well, thank you all, very much. Clearly something about what he is saying is resonating with plenty of people. His message, us against them, part of it. It helped fuel his rise. But can he ride that all the way to the White House?
Plus, breaking new details about the San Bernardino shooters. CNN learning just tonight that Syed Farook took out a big loan before the massacre.
And as we learn more details about the female shooter, special OUTFRONT investigation you cannot mix tonight. There is a handbook for women in ISIS and we are going to show it to you this hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:18:08] BURNETT: Tonight Donald Trump threatening to run as an independent in 2016. And a new poll shows that nearly 70 percent of Trump supporters say they will vote for him if he runs as a third party candidate. Now, that is a pretty big threat for the Republican Party. Trump actually retweeted that stat just moments after the poll came out. Now for now, he's still the front-runner to be the Republican nominee. But will this plan and his other controversial comments stop him from being America's choice next November?
Sunlen Serfaty is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TRUMP: Something bad is happening. Something bad is happening. And we can't be the stupid ones.
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's an alarmist tone embedded in nearly every Donald Trump speech.
TRUMP: Something really dangerous is going on.
SERFATY: While his slogan is --
TRUMP: Make America great again.
SERFATY: The subtext seems to be Americans are not safe right now. On the campaign trail and in interviews, Trump punches up the drama.
TRUMP: It sounds cold and it sounds hard. We have a country -- our country is going to hell.
SERFATY: Shocking declarations and dark imagery.
TRUMP: When you have ISIS and others wanting to blow up our country.
SERFATY: -- to turn the fear in American's minds right now into something more imminent and even more ominous.
TRUMP: We have people out there that want to do great destruction to our country. Whether it's 25 percent or 10 percent or five percent, it's too much. They want our buildings to come down. They want our cities to be crushed. They are living within our country.
SERFATY: It's a strategy that Trump has relied on since the day he announced his campaign, warning about undocumented Mexican immigrants.
TRUMP: And they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists.
SERFATY: On Syrian refugees, raising concerns that terrorists might infiltrate those seeking resettlement in the U.S.
TRUMP: Then I said to myself, wow, they're all men. There are all men. You look at it. There are so few women. And there are so few children. And not only are they men, they're young men and they're strong as can be. They're tough-looking cookies.
SERFATY: Now Trump calling for a complete shutdown of Muslims' entry in the United States.
TRUMP: The whole thing is, we have to stop the Muslims until we found out what's going on. Does that make sense, by the way?
SERFATY: To be sure, uncertainty are big factors in this election with terrorism and national security top concerns for voters. Four in 10 Republicans say Trump is the candidate who they think could be the most effective at solving the country's problems. Suggesting not only dire warnings, but his trademark tough talk.
TRUMP: We'll going to be so vigilant. We'll going to be so careful. We'll going to be so tough and so mean and so nasty.
SERFATY: Maybe falling on receptive ears.
TRUMP: That's why every time there is a tragedy, everything goes up. My numbers go way up. Because we have no strength in this country. We have weakness. We have weak sad politicians.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SERFATY: And that may be one of the biggest reasons that we've seen this sort of continued and constant rhetoric from Donald Trump. It seems to be working among voters really playing to the uncertainty, playing to the fear that are especially on voters' minds right now especially in the wake of the Paris and San Bernardino attack -- Erin.
BURNETT: Sunlen, thank you so much. And OUTFRONT now, Donald Trump campaign spokesperson Katrina Pierson and political commentator Hilary Rosen on the democratic side.
Katrina, Donald Trump has offended various groups of people, right? At different times, women, Muslims, Mexicans. Muslims may be one percent of the U.S. population, women obviously are about half. Is he going to limit the groups that could vote for him? I mean, this is going to be a self-fulfilling problem?
KATRINA PIERSON, DONALD TRUMP CAMPAIGN SPOKESWOMAN: No, I don't think so. Because if you look at the polls, Erin. Even if they said they don't like the way Trump speaks, they still think he's the strongest person for the job. And at the end of the day when people go vote, they are not going to vote for who Mr. Nice guy is. So, no, I don't think it's going to a problem at all.
BURNETT: What do you say, Hillary?
HILARY ROSEN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I think, you know, he's getting support from 30 percent of the Republican voters. And I think that his numbers are consistent there. They like him. That's, you know, who he's playing to. I think it's hard for him to grow. The only way this works really is if all these other Republicans stay in the race, but if other Republicans drop out, then those voters go somewhere, I don't think they're going to go to Donald Trump. With regard to the general election though, I think that he, you know, has a real ceiling. I don't think Americans are going to elect a president who plays to our worst fears. That is not typically what we support in presidents. Yes, we want caution, yes, we want leadership and yes we want strength. But we also want hope and enthusiasm and a sense of patriotism. And I think he fails at that. And I think that the voters will agree.
BURNETT: So, I want to talk about the head to head numbers of him. Go ahead, Katrina.
[19:23:08] PIERSON: Well, Erin, look, we had hope and change. We've actually had seven years of hope and change. And look where we are today. And Donald Trump is not playing on anything. He is just speaking plainly to the American public and he is speaking the truth. Yes, it might be offensive to some people, but you know, interesting people aren't universally liked to begin with. But the fact of the matter is, people were afraid before Donald Trump released this policy last night. And it is with regard to immigration only. This is not something that is going to, you know, make ISIS want to kill us more. This was happening before Donald Trump implemented this policy. Because we've had politicians in office for decades who's left the borders opened who had to reform the visa system. And something has to be done -- Erin.
BURNETT: So, Hilary, let me ask you. In terms of the general election, because Katrina points out, people think Donald Trump is strong on ISIS. That is true right now. Hilary Clinton and Donald Trump in a dead heat 44 percent on who would be best to handle ISIS. I mean, that's a dead heat between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. It's hardly as if the American people are saying that he's not the one. And at this point when you do a dead matchup, a dead heat match- up between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump, it is within the margin of error, Clinton is slightly ahead 48 to 44. But Hilary Rosen, that shows that those numbers at least show that the American public is responding to Donald Trump.
ROSEN: Like I said, I think he caps out. I just don't think that he is going to get a majority for this. I'm not surprised that in a head-to-head when he's been on TV every day for the last, you know, several weeks that there's much more attention being paid to the Republican primary. So, I think when you look at most these matchups, Hillary Clinton beats Donald Trump across. Yes, maybe a margin of error, but she is still ahead in virtually every national poll. So, I'm not typically, I'm not generally very worried about that. I think really the issue is, never before have I ever seen in a general election virtually every single national security expert say that what a prominent presidential candidate has said, actually a candidate in the lead in the GOP primary, actually makes this country more dangerous and more problematic across the board Republicans and Democrats agree that it's wrong policy.
BURNETT: Thank you both very much. Conversation of course to be continued.
OUTFRONT next, breaking news, we are just learning that the San Bernardino shooters took out a big loan before the attack. Did officials miss a crucial sign?
And Tashfeen Malik, mother to a six-month old baby. A suicide killer. OUTFRONT tonight, a new ISIS handbook for women. Instructions on how to stage attacks with rifles and suicide belts. You'll see that, OUTFRONT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:30:01] BURNETT: Breaking news. The FBI tonight digging into the San Bernardino killers' finances. We are learning that the couple got a bank loan for more than $28,000 just days before the massacre. According to Reuters, the couple may have drained their bank accounts, maxed out their credit line, a strategy often used by terrorists before embarking on a suicide mission.
Also tonight, alarming new details about the killer's ties to terror. Authorities say a post on Facebook indicates both the husband and wife pledged their allegiance to ISIS.
Kyung Lah is OUTFRONT.
And, Kyung, what more are you learning?
KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Let's begin with the money. That loan you were talking about. CNN's Pam Brown and Evan Perez have been speaking to multiple law enforcement sources who tell them that, yes, indeed, a $28,500 loan was taken out by Farook. Half of that money went to his mother. Some of it went to household expenses, according to those multiple law enforcement sources, and that all of the money has been accounted for.
The key thing here with this money is that the money did not appear to come from an outside entity and that the money did not fund this operation -- the arsenal, the guns, the bullets, everything seized by federal agents. That was bought prior to this loan.
But Pam Brown and Evan Perez confirming, Erin, that this money indeed, a loan, was taken out by Farook.
BURNETT: And, Kyung, they're tracking the money. They're also, though, looking at the timeline of their radicalization and some pretty shocking new details there that you're finding out.
LAH: Yes, the timeline here is critical because we don't know very much about exactly how or why or who. That's something that agents really need to understand here to try to prevent the next one. So, what we are learning, sources telling CNN that Malik, Tashfeen Malik, the wife, that she appears to be radicalized two years ago, this is before she was in the United States. This is around the time, because she met her husband approximately two years ago in the fall 2013 for the very first time in Saudi Arabia. That was approximately the time that they met. But she did not enter the United States until 2014. But those sources telling CNN, Erin, that it does appear that she was radicalized before she entered the U.S.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Kyung Lah.
And OUTFRONT now, former FBI profiler James Fitzgerald, and former chairman of the House Select and Committee on Intelligence, Mike Rogers.
All right. So, Mike, let me start with what Kyung was just reporting.
CNN learning Tashfeen Malik, the wife, was radicalized before coming to the United States last summer. How was it that she was able to enter the United States, you know? With this whole conversation about Donald Trump, people are saying we are already screening people -- well, if she was already radicalized and she got in the country, something didn't happen that should have happened.
MIKE ROGERS, FORMER HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: Well, I don't know how you would determine if someone was willing to use deception to get into the country and not be forth coming in the fact that she was radicalized or had extreme views, how you would catch that in the interview process of which they have. Remember, the databases are good for what they're good for. Meaning, that's information relayed from a foreign country that says this person is associated with terrorism. That is a database that the FBI has access to.
It is clear that neither one of those people rose to that level. And remember, Erin, the Tsarnaev brothers of the Boston bombing were investigated almost a year by the FBI and found they had strong views, but it didn't rise to the level to say, hey, these folks are going to commit a terrorist act. It's almost an impossible standard. BURNETT: So, James, you know, this would mean, though, this
timing she was radicalized before coming to the United States, that would mean she could have been pregnant while she was radicalized and while she was planning a suicide massacre specifically. Pretty terrifying thought.
Do you think having this baby was part of the plot? Why do you think that?
JAMES FITZGERALD, FORMER FBI PROFILER: Well, first of all, it goes way back before two years. I'm convinced she could have been a baby when this process actually started. We have to discuss more about her family, learn more about her family in Pakistan, other places that she visited. But this also could have been a pact she had with her handlers, who the people who were radicalizing her, not to mention her husband when she finally met and finally married him, and that is, you know what, I'll do this, believe in this cause.
I am a true believer. But, you know, I have this maternal instinct thing and I want to have a baby first. I'll make sure that she is taken care of down the line. Some of this money you are borrowing or perhaps some letters or even some videos or digital recordings I have will be for my young daughter when she reaches 10 years of age, 15 years of age, then she can follow in my footsteps.
This happened well before two years ago. And the baby may have been part of this overall deal.
BURNETT: What do you say to that, Mike?
ROGERS: You know, I'm not sure that was planned. It could have been an accidental birth or unplanned birth, I mean. I'm not sure I can get there.
But what we do know is that if you believe in ISIS and if you believe in the caliphate, they start early.
[19:35:03] They'll recruit people in these training camps or take these kids into training camps as young as 3 years old. They call them cubs of the caliphate.
There is one particular camp that issued swords and dolls. And their whole purpose was to train these children how to chop the head off this doll. They would call them -- these are the infidels. This is how you do it. They're indoctrinating these kids very, very early. It's a dangerous trend to see these kids are being consumed and indoctrinated by ISIS.
And I'll tell you, once and James could tell you that as an FBI profiler, once that person goes through that process, maybe even participates in an execution or certainly witnesses it, really difficult to get those kids back and out of that environment in a way that keeps them and their neighborhood safe.
BURNETT: So, James, I talked to the attorney last night for the Farook family. The husband's family, he was adamant that his mother who lived in the home and was helping to take care of that baby had no idea about any of this.
Do you believe her? Do you believe the family?
FITZGERALD: Well, that's what attorneys do that work for a client. Of course, we need more facts, more information. I find it hard to believe she could live through this pre-offense staging period between gathering material, pipe bombs, detonators, materials to actually make them explode, as well as doing dry firing, practicing shooting in the backyard without seeing something.
I have a feeling she is not a stupid woman. There is no way she could see her son and daughter-in-law going through these machinations, these practice runs and not know something was being planned and something relatively evil and deadly.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you both very much. We do, of course, know that she was questioned for seven hours at this point has not been kept in custody.
OUTFRONT next: ISIS has a new handbook for women with rules of engagement for female suicide bombers. Our special report, next.
And the video of a deadly police shooting, that the city of Chicago doesn't want you to see. Ahead, our OUTFRONT investigation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:40:57] BURNETT: Tonight, investigators stepping up their investigation zeroing in on the woman behind the San Bernardino attacks. CNN learning that she was radicalized before coming to the United States, which means she could have been pregnant while planning her act of terror.
Tonight, we have a new ISIS, quote/unquote, "handbook for women" on how to plan and execute acts of terror.
Deborah Feyerick is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They are women from the West linked to ISIS, Hayat Boumeddiene, Hasna Aitboulahcen, and Tashfeen Malik, the 29-year-old wife of San Bernardino gunman Syed Rizwan Farook helped her husband to kill 14 people and was killed in a shootout attempting to plea police.
Some terrorism experts say her role in the terror attack could be a game changer compared to the responsibilities of ISIS women who typically only support men in domestic roles.
MIA BLOOM, PROFESSOR OF COMMUNICATIONS, GEORGIA STATE UNIVERSITY: Maybe she thought she was going to break the glass ceiling.
FEYERICK: The prominence of these three women in the separate attacks, in Paris, in California, comes in the wake of a new document obtained by terror expert Mia Bloom and her team. In it, there are rules of engagement believed to be from the ISIS jihadi Sheik Abu Abdullah Al-Mansour.
According to the document, women are instructed to use weapons or suicide belts when their home is threatened or when a hospital or public place attacked by so-called unbelievers. Sniper rifles and martyrdom operations are allowed, but only if emir al Baghdadi permits. It's still unclear what connections if any Malik and her husband Farook had to ISIS, but both are believed to have pledged allegiance to the terror group.
DAVID BOWDICH, FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR: Both subjects were radicalized and have been for quite some time. Now, how did that happen, the question we're trying to get at is how did that happen, and by whom and where did that happen? And I will tell you right now, we don't know those answers at this point.
FEYERICK: In January, Hayat Boumeddiene fled Paris just before her husband, an ISIS loyalist Amedy Coulibaly shot at the Jewish supermarket there. It's believed she's in Syria, with ISIS.
Ten months later again in Paris, in a raid, authorities killed Abdelhamid Abaaoud. The mastermind of the massacres in Paris. Abaaoud's female cousin Aitboulahcen was also killed during the raid just before authorities say they were about to launch another attack.
BLOOM: Every terrorist organization, no matter how conservative they were at the outset, how much they said they didn't want or need women, what generally happens is that certain periods of time, they get desperate and they change the policy.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: I mean, Deb, this is incredible because you now have this handbook. You have a case here where a woman with a young and infant committed a mass murder suicide bombing. This is not the person anybody was ever looking at.
FEYERICK: That's right. You wouldn't think a woman would be capable of abandoning her child. ISIS has a very different philosophy. They see children as really collateral to the cause. Their cause is the extremist ideology.
And so, while right now ISIS on the battlefield, is not -- their females are not engaged in this kind of fighting. In fact, ISIS fighters don't want women on the battlefield. What they need the women for is to procreate. You can't have a caliphate if you can't keep it going. And so, they need to have babies. They need to have this utopian ideal.
But what we're seeing increasingly, according to several people I spoke to, is that women in the West, it's more of a feminist perspective on ISIS, that they are willing to be more engaged, more prominent. And that's why in these three terrible terror attacks, there was a woman at the side of the person who was doing the killing. Though in this particular case, and that's fascinating, she was actually in the back of that SUV shooting at police officers. So, she was in that fight, hook, like and sinker. So, that's what they're looking at now. But it is a concern.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Deb.
And OUTFRONT next, a special investigation. These are not the only videos that the Chicago police department doesn't want the public to see.
And Jeanne Moos on politicians' suddenly salty tongues.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[19:45:04] DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Would I approve waterboarding? You bet your ass I'll approve it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Chicago police under fire. Just released video showing officers tasing a black man in his cell. As you can see here, tasing him in his cell. Then, they drag his body, as you see there, dragging him on the floor into the hallway.
This is a stunning new video. The latest in a string of videos showing disturbing behavior by police in Chicago. It all started with this tape, now infamous. Teenager Laquan McDonald was shot to death by an officer 16 times, only two of those times was he standing.
Then there was footage of Ron Johnson, shot to death while fleeing from officers. As you can see there, shot, shot, shot again, repeatedly.
And now there is another tape, the city of Chicago does not want you to see.
Rosa Flores has this OUTFRONT investigation. I want to warn you, because we've never played this before, you're going to see it here and some of this video is graphic.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): First there was the shocking video of Laquan McDonald and then Ronald Johnson. Both shot and killed by Chicago police, cases that have caused outrage.
But there's a third police shooting and video that few have seen. We've talked to two men who have seen it and they say it shows in detail the killing of black teen Cedrick Chatman by a Chicago police officer in 2013.
[19:50:08] BRIAN COFFMAN, CHATMAN'S ATTORNEY: He is running as fast as he possibly can away from the police when he is shot.
FLORES: Brian Coffman represents Chatman's family and has been fighting for the release of the video. COFFMAN: Approximately three to four seconds lapses and the
first bullet is fired. And he is dead within eight seconds of getting out of his car and running.
LORENZO DAVIS, FIRED BY IPRA: We saw the commotion when I heard gunshots.
FLORES: Lorenzo Davis analyzed the video second by second and says this case cost him his job.
DAVIS: We felt like it was unjustified shooting.
FLORES: Davis led the review for the city agency that investigates all officer-involved shootings, called the independent police review authority, or IPRA, a former police officer himself, he describes what's on the video.
DAVIS: They pulled up alongside of that car.
FLORES: Chatman was running away from the stolen car he was driving when a police officer opened fire.
DAVIS: Chatman was running along here, and when he got to roughly this location, I would say, there was a gunshot.
FLORES: Chatman was carrying a black iPhone box in his hand. The shooting officer would later say he thought it was gun.
DAVIS: He did not shout a warning. He did not use his radio to give direction of flight. He simply pointed his gun until he had a clear shot.
FLORES (on camera): Lorenzo Davis says when he deemed the shooting unjustified, his boss said IPRA asked him to change it to justified. When he refused, he says he was fired.
(voice-over): IPRA assigned another investigator and called part of Davis' report glaringly biased, saying there was a significant discrepancy between Davis' findings and what the facts of the case actually show. The officer who shot Chatman was exonerated.
DAVIS: They don't want to say that the shooting was wrong.
FLORES (on camera): Why is that?
DAVIS: Because then it makes it look like some police officers are killers. And they don't want it to look that way.
FLORES (voice-over): In fact, not on was the officer cleared, two of Chatman's accomplices were actually charged with first degree murder, even though they were at least ten blocks away when he was shot. Prosecutors said the two were involved in the carjacking which led to Chatman's death. They pled guilty to lesser crimes.
Chicago police officers have shot 409 people since 2007, a third of them fatally according to a CNN analysis of IPRA's data. That's one person shot about every week for the past eight years. An analysis of the 260 closed cases shows in only six cases, or 2 percent, officers were found to be not justified in the use of deadly force.
(on camera): We keep on hearing from activists in the community, from members of the community, there's a cover-up culture to protect police officers, to protect politicians. What's your reaction to that? Do you think that culture of cover-up exists?
DAVIS: Yes, I do. That protects the reputation of the police department. That protects the reputation of police officers.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DAVIS: Now, CNN has reached out to the Chicago Police Department to the Independent Police Review Authority and to Cook County state's attorney's office and has received no comment. Now, we should add that in the past week, Mayor Rahm Emanuel has asked the superintendent of police to resign, the head of IPRA to resign and has also welcomed the DOJ to come into Chicago and investigate the Department of Police.
Now, we should say that DOJ investigation is under way and one of the things that they're looking at is use of force -- Erin.
BURNETT: Rosa, thank you very much. Of course, we may see that new video tomorrow. We'll be covering that.
And next, politicians and salty tongues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[19:58:22] JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's as if they're vying for curser in chief and guess who's in the lead?
TRUMP: Would I approve waterboarding? You bet your ass I'd approve it. You bet your ass.
MOOS: Are they trying to make them swear again?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And you know how you make America great again, tell Donald Trump to go to hell.
MOOS: Gone are the days when politicians can find themselves to swearing on a bible.
Even mild mannered Jeb Bush erupted.
JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're Americans, damn it!
MOOS: Most credit the Donald for lowering the bar.
TRUMP: But it's political bull (EXPLETIVE DELETED), do you understand?
MOOS: But everyone seems to be following in his foot steps.
SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We need more phone surveillance, bull (EXPLETIVE DELETED)!
MOOS: Foul-mouthed and proud of it, it's how "The New York Times" put it.
TRUMP: I would bomb the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out of them.
MOOS: It adds to the macho factor, makes him sound like one of us.
Even cerebral Bernie Sanders got sick and tired of hearing --
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: About your damn e-mails!
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTAIL CANDIDATE: Thank you. Me, too.
MOOS: And President Obama complimented the women's soccer team by saying --
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Playing like a girl means you're a bad ass.
MOOS: Of course, presidents are expected to swear privately.
JOHN F. KENNEDY, FORMER PRESIDENT: I'm he's a silly bastard. Well, this is obviously a (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
MOOS: But it got this FOX contributor a two-week suspension when he used the P-word to describe President Obama's cowardly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, this guy is such total (EXPLETIVE DELETED, it's stunning.
MOOS: When Rich Lowry described how rival Carly Fiorina bested Donald Trump during a debate.
RICH LOWRY, EDITOR, NATIONAL REVIEW ONLINE: Carly cut his (EXPLETIVE DELETED) off by --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What did you just say?
MOOS: The Donald wanted an apology for using such fool language, unheard off.
Well, unhear this -- the mayor of Philadelphia just said this about you, Donald.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's an asshole.
MOOS: And if you add something profane, the crowd just might go insane.
PAUL: Bull (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
MOOS: Jeanne Moos, CNN --
TRUMP: I would bomb the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out of them.
MOOS: New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: And on that note, "AC360" starts right now.
