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Erin Burnett Outfront
Trump on the Offensive, Attacks Kasich, Clinton, Cruz; Boehner Calls Cruz "Lucifer in the Flesh"; Fiorina Downplays Cruz Criticisms After VP Pick; First Jeb Bush Interview Since Quitting The Race. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired April 28, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:09] ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: OUTFRONT next, it is do or die in Indiana as John Boehner comparing Ted Cruz to the devil, and Trump supporter, Bobby Knight, talking about dropping the a-bomb. Everyone on fire tonight.
Plus, what Carly Fiorina said about Ted Cruz before she was his running-mate. Her voters were buying their new-found friendship?
And an exclusive interview with Jeb Bush tonight. What he's saying about Donald Trump this evening. Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening, I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, it is down to the wire. Donald Trump on the attack tonight, working for every single vote in Indiana. The frontrunner rallying thousands of supporters today, attacking his rivals, one by one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have got to beat Hillary Clinton. Crooked Hillary Clinton. Got to beat her. She's crooked. Kasich. You know the man that eats like with the large bites. You ever -- lying Ted. Lying Ted. I never saw anything like this. This zero chance of getting elected. He announced who his vice president of the United States is going to be, folks. He can't get collected!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Now this comes as the former House Speaker John Boehner is back in the spotlight in what is fair to say is a rather huge way saying he would vote for Donald Trump if nominated. In fact, he went so far as to call Ted Cruz Lucifer and a, quote, "miserable son of a," you got it. Cruz campaigning today with his choice for a VP, Carly Fiorina, responding saying he barely knows Boehner. Now, Jeb Bush also resurfacing today in a major interview in an exclusive interview here on CNN, his first since dropping out of the race.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEB BUSH (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My personal belief is if Donald Trump is the nominee, you know, look, my views have been pretty consistent about this. We'll lose the Senate. And we'll lose the presidency in a landslide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: A lot of developing stories to get to tonight. I want to begin though with Jim Acosta, who is covering the Trump campaign. And Jim, the Trump campaign is really pulling out all of the stops because Indiana truly, they must win it.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. And Ted Cruz just sent out a fund-raising e-mail saying it's all on Indiana with his campaign. Ted Cruz is doing his best to stay alive in his quest to stop Donald Trump from capturing the GOP nomination. But Trump just got a helping hand, as you said, from House Speaker John Boehner, the former House Speaker, who was once a major player in the Washington establishment, and is now unleashing a hellacious attack on Cruz.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA (voice-over): Donald Trump is no longer alone in coining his own nasty nicknames for Ted Cruz.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So we came up with lying Ted, l-y-i-n, boom --
ACOSTA: Former House Speaker John Boehner, had some choice words for Cruz this week telling college students at Stanford the Texas senator is hell to work with.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lucifer in the flesh. I have Democrat friends and Republican friends. I get along with almost everyone, but I have never worked with more miserable son of a bitch in my life. (INAUDIBLE)
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He allowed his inner Trump to come out.
ACOSTA: Cruz, who clashed with Boehner during the government shutdown of 2013 rejected the former speaker's remarks while campaigning in Indiana, a state that is now a must-win for him.
CRUZ: He said something like he's the worst s.o.b., I've ever worked with. Something like that. But the interesting thing is, he said, "That I've ever worked with." I've never worked with John Boehner. Truth of the matter is, I don't know the man.
ACOSTA: But tell that to Boehner who revealed two years ago that Cruz was once his attorney.
REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Ted Cruz used to be my attorney a long time ago.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, is that right?
BOEHNER: He's a good guy. Not that I always agree with him. He's a good guy.
ACOSTA: Cruz also threw cold water on the pact he announced this week with John Kasich that was supposed to mean the Ohio governor would no longer compete in Indiana.
CRUZ: There is no alliance.
ACOSTA: Moments after that comment, Kasich's chief strategist tweeted, I can't stand liars. The drama surrounding Cruz's campaign has taken some heat off of Trump who is still trying to explain his comment that Hillary Clinton is playing the woman card.
TRUMP: Nobody cherishes and nobody respects woman more than Donald Trump, that I can tell you. I will be so much better to women than Hillary Clinton.
ACOSTA: Joined by his running mate, Carly Fiorina, who once clashed with Trump herself, Cruz pointed to the GOP front runner's pattern with women.
CRUZ: Donald has a problem with strong women.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA: Now we should know Boehner also mentioned in his comments that he has been golfing with Donald Trump, he's also been texting buddies with Donald Trump. But for Ted Cruz, these comments from John Boehner highlight a major obstacle for the Never Trump movement, Erin. And that is, there is also a Never Cruz segment inside the GOP that will simply never stomach the Texas senator as the Republican nominee either -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Jim Acosta. Well, tonight, there is some new support for Donald Trump on Capitol Hill.
Manu Raju is at the capitol tonight. And Manu, you know, you've been talking to members of Congress today. And, you know what, a few weeks ago, right, it was hard for any of them to even admit that they would consider Donald Trump. They wanted to avoid it. They didn't want to talk about it at all. And now things are really changing.
[19:05:15] MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Erin. Actually, Senate Majority Whip John Cornyn who is the number two Senate Republican, told me in February that Donald Trump would actually be an albatross to his party. Donald take it. Now, when I asked him about that yesterday, he said that Donald Trump could be good for his party, expand the electoral map and help them retain the Senate majority. Similarly Mark Sanford, who supports Ted Cruz as South Carolina congressman, said that Trump is probably going to be the nominee in the party starting to get behind that idea.
Orrin Hatch, a long-term longest serving senator, Republican senator, also said that he will do whatever he can help Donald Trump if he becomes the nominee. Now, this comes as Paul Manafort who is Donald Trump's convention manager was on Capitol Hill today as part of his weekly outreach meetings to members of the House. And after that meeting, House members were saying the support is broadening for Donald Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. MIKE KELLY (R), PENNSYLVANIA: I think on the floor, there's a lot stronger support for Donald Trump than maybe people could possibly imagine, especially people from maybe leadership. Because they're not with us all of the time. They're in a little different group, and not putting him down, that's necessary. But get the temperature of the people that are actually on the floor. Get the temperature of the people actually back in your districts and find out what is it about this man, that's been so attractive to people to turn out in droves in a primary.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: Now I should caution, there are a lot of folks in that so- called Never Trump movement on Capitol Hill, including Lindsey Graham, the South Carolina Republican who told me that if Donald Trump is the nominee, the party will get creamed in November. But clearly, Erin, we're seeing the split on Capitol Hill and a growing acceptance in some quarters for Donald Trump.
BURNETT: And people want to back a winner. If they think he's a winner, they'll get there. All right. Thank you very much, Manu Raju.
RAJU: Thank you.
BURNETT: OUTFRONT tonight, Republican Senator Bob Corker, chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee. And Senator, it's a pleasure to have you with me. I really appreciate you taking the time. Donald Trump at a rally said he spoke to you today. Did he convinced you to endorse him?
SEN. BOB CORKER, R-TENNESSEE: You know, that wasn't what the conversation was about. He had given a foreign policy speech yesterday. Chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee. And certainly I appreciated what he had to say. I thought it was a very good start, great transition from where the campaigns on both sides of the aisle had been. But we talked about foreign policy, talked maybe 10 percent of our time just about the general campaign. But it was good conversation. And I actually -- I've never met Donald Trump. It's the only time I've ever talked to him.
BURNETT: So, I want to talk to you about the 10 percent of the conversation on the general campaign but the 90 percent on foreign policy. Let me just follow-up with you on that. Because you said it was, he did a good job.
CORKER: Yes.
BURNETT: As you know, not everyone agrees. Lindsey Graham tweeted Trump's foreign policy speech is not conservative, it's isolationism surrounded by disconnected thought, demonstrates lack of understanding, threats we face.
CORKER: Yes.
BURNETT: What is Graham missing that you saw when you say it's a good speech? He did a good job.
CORKER: Well, first of all, Lindsey is a great friend of mine as is John McCain. Look, in many ways, if you listened to Trump, and you actually even knew where the event was taking place, what he really is -- was doing is challenging the foreign policy establishment that's been here for so long. We have major challenges around the world. You know, I read a headline the other day, Erin. And one of the major publications that you and I both read. And I woke up to the headline that, you know, foreign leaders are afraid of Trump. And I have got to be honest. It was somewhat refreshing, based on the way things have been over the last several years.
So, look, I know that he's -- it's still evolving when you're running for public office like this. You're drinking through a fire hose. And you evolve. He hasn't been in this world. He's been a business person. And I thought that what he did yesterday was a really good transition in the campaign. And I look forward to him adding details and meet to what he's wanting to do in foreign policy.
BURNETT: Now, on that front, it sounds like you take him very seriously, you're listening to him. You've now to your point talked to him for the first time. Had a conversation. He reached out to you. Today two house chairman endorsed Donald Trump. There are nine others now in the House and Senate who have endorsed him.
CORKER: Yes.
BURNETT: He won your primary, Senator, by 15 points. So if you're looking at the will of your people, they have spoken.
CORKER: Yes.
BURNETT: Will you endorse him?
CORKER: You know, I've looked at -- Erin, I feel like I've been given a tremendous privilege being chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee. And I have been repulsed by those who try to direct the electoral process in a certain direction, say, well, no matter what people do, we're going to cause this to happen at the convention. To me, that's inappropriate. At the same time, I haven't -- I've planned to support our nominee. I haven't planned to endorse.
BURNETT: And Senator, you have not shied away from calling Senator Ted Cruz out on the Senate floor, on Twitter during the ObamaCare debate is just one example. You called him confused at one point. Here's what the former House Speaker John Boehner had today about Cruz.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[19:10:16] BOEHNER: Lucifer in the flesh. I have Republican friends, Democrat friends, I get along with almost everybody. But I have never worked with a more miserable (bleep).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Do you agree, Senator?
CORKER: I couldn't hear it all. I've read in print. I think Speaker Boehner is enjoying his freedom and expressing himself in that way today. But, look, I haven't made comments about any of the candidates. Not one. I don't plan to do that. I know a lot about some of them. But you know, that's for other people to do. I've got a really important job that the people of Tennessee have given me the privilege to do. And I want to continue to do that job. And stay away from making comments about candidates.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Senator, I appreciate your time. Thank you so much for your time tonight.
CORKER: Thank you. Thank you.
BURNETT: And OUTFRONT next, Ted Cruz and Carly Fiorina are now a team. So how does she explain this?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARLY FIORINA (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Ted Cruz is just like any other politician. He says one thing in Manhattan, he says another thing in Iowa. Well, he says whatever he needs to say to get elected.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Plus, a CNN exclusive tonight. Jeb Bush in his first major interview since leaving the race. Will he vote for Donald Trump?
And Trump's new home away from home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'm watching television, at my Holiday Inn Express. Everyone thinks I fly back home every night.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:15:00] BURNETT: Tonight, Carly Fiorina defending herself against Carly Fiorina. Her past criticism of Ted Cruz, well, he is coming back to haunt her. Because now she is, of course, his running mate if he becomes the nominee. Now, though, Fiorina is trying to take everything bad she ever said back.
Sunlen Serfaty is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CRUZ: If I am the Republican nominee, my vice presidential nominee will be Carly Fiorina. The reaction has been tremendously positive.
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Ted Cruz and Carly Fiorina, one-time rivals, are now trying to make a splashy debut as running mates. The campaign rushing in, fresh branding, as the duo barn storms Indiana ahead of next Tuesday's primary.
CRUZ: Isn't Carly fantastic?
SERFATY: Talking up their newly formed ticket, an unconventional move aimed at helping Cruz blunt Donald Trump's momentum.
FIORINA: I will fight with Ted Cruz because I had not a shred of doubt when I voted for him so many weeks ago.
SERFATY: That goodwill, not as kind when they were competing against each other just months ago.
FIORINA: Ted Cruz is just like any other politician. He says one thing in Manhattan, he says another thing in Iowa. He says whatever he needs attention to get elected, and then he's going to do as he pleases.
SERFATY: Fiorina saying that criticism is all in the past.
FIORINA: Well, you know, I don't agree with my husband about everything. And Ted Cruz and I have differed on tactics.
SERFATY: The Cruz campaign describes Fiorina as a natural fit, but saying one trait in particular stood out. The way she connects with the crowds. That attribute will be put to the test in the Hoosier state, where a loss would deal a significant blow to Cruz's hopes of stopping Trump from clinching the nomination. Cruz signaling he'll use Fiorina as an antidote to Trump going forward.
CRUZ: She is measured, she is serious.
SERFATY: Cruz highlighting Fiorina's rebuke of Trump at CNN's Reagan Library debate last September.
CRUZ: And they don't know what to do when a strong, powerful woman stands up and says, "I am not afraid."
SERFATY: After Trump insulted Fiorina's appearance in a magazine interview, saying, "Look at that face."
FIORINA: I think women all over this country heard very clearly what Mr. Trump said.
SERFATY: Fiorina says she's ready to step back into the scrum.
FIORINA: And I'll see you out on the campaign trail, Donald.
SERFATY: Dusting off her trademark tough rhetoric from her own presidential bid.
FIORINA: Hillary Clinton wants to go to the White House. But the truth is, she is only qualified for the big house.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SERFATY: And a core part of the Cruz campaign strategy right now really is riding on making sure that they're getting a big boost of momentum coming from that rather early and unconventional VP announcement. A Cruz campaign official telling me that they will now take on this divide and conquer strategy is what they call it, where they'll dispatch Senator Cruz. And Carly Fiorina to different areas of the state here in Indiana. Really so that they can cover double the amount of ground between now and next Tuesday, Erin, a state in a day that is now so critically important to their campaign going forward.
BURNETT: All right. Sunlen, thank you very much. And I want to go now to our political commentator, Tara Setmayer, Donald Trump supporter, former Connecticut gubernatorial candidate Joe Visconti. Our political commentator and Bernie Sanders supporters Sally Kohn and our political commentator Ben Ferguson, and Ted Cruz supporter.
So, Ben, let me start with you. Look, there's been no love lost historically between Cruz and Fiorina. They did this deal in a day. Apparently it was -- the day of the primary this week when Cruz was losing so badly. They got all this finally together. Is this a move that Cruz will regret soon or not?
BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, I don't. And I think for two reasons. One, Carly Fiorina is a woman that will be able to go out there and clearly give a message of what they would accomplish together as a team. And also, I think it's very important to remind people of the biggest liability that Donald Trump has in a general election if for some reason he gets this. That is that women do not like him. They do not like his comments of the past he's made, not only just towards Carly but towards other women in general.
And I think she is going to be able to really make people remember that, that this is going to be a real issue. You can't win the presidency while insulting women the way, and degrading women the way that Donald Trump has. So, look, politicians fight with each other all of the time. When they're running against one another. But Chris Christie is standing on stage with Donald Trump right now. That's part of how this system works.
BURNETT: All right. So Sally, you just heard Ben say, being a woman is obviously going to be very, very helpful for Carly Fiorina. Will it? Will this help Ted Cruz win Indiana? Because really, that's what this is all about. Got to win Indiana.
SALLY KOHN, BERNIE SANDERS SUPPORTERS: No, it's not going to work. It will probably help Hillary Clinton, because Hillary Clinton will start undoubtedly -- Trump will start attacking Fiorina again in ways that are sexist and in all likelihood that will help ultimately Hillary Clinton. But what amuses me to no end about this entire thing is that you see the Republican Party which once said, oh, there's no war on women. Oh, identity politics, gender politics, playing the gender card. That is all bad. Now suddenly, play war on women. Play gender politics. Say, oh, no, Trump is gauged in a war on women. And this is why.
(CROSSTALK)
I mean, in her own candidacy. Carly Fiorina said identity politics is now part of the problem and now look at that campaign event.
FERGUSON: Sally.
KOHN: Women lined up behind Ted Cruz. I mean, come on, admit we have an issue here and that we -- and that gender politics --
FERGUSON: The issue here --
BURNETT: Quickly, Ben.
FERGUSON: The issue here, Sally, you and I should be able to agree on, is that Donald Trump is incredibly sexist. This is completely outside the normal, the political conversation. His comments about another woman running for president, saying, "look at that face," for goodness sakes. His attack on women reporter who are coming after him. We should be able to reject this without it be a Republican or a Democrat or a war on women issue. This is just a sexist man that's being sexist all of the time.
KOHN: Coming from a party that has argued for decades that says there is no such thing as sexism. You can't have it both ways, honey.
BURNETT: All right. This all comes down to Indiana which is a must win. OK? I understand Ted Cruz is saying, California, et cetera, et cetera but it's all moot if he doesn't win Indiana. Tara, Trump is pulling out all the stops. You heard him there on the podium, he is even staying at the Holiday Inn Express. I'm imitating his cadence. Look, so in Indiana today, he went out with Bobby Knight. Basketball legend Bobby Knight said, look, it doesn't matter if Trump isn't acting presidential, because people used to say Harry Truman wasn't presidential. And here is what Harry Truman did.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOBBY KNIGHT, FORMER COLLEGE BASKETBALL COACH: Harry Truman with what he did in dropping and having the guts to drop the bomb in 1944 saved -- saved billions of American lives. And that's what Harry Truman did. And he became one of the three great presidents of the United States. And here's a man who would do the same thing, because he's going to become one of the four great president, of the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: With the guts to drop a bomb, Tara?
TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: I think that scarce the hell out of a lot of people, thinking about Donald Trump's finger on the nuclear trigger. I mean, listen. First of all, Bobby Knight got the history wrong. It was not 1944. FDR was president then. But then again, Donald Trump is using America's first. And that was something that was -- started in the -- to keep the United States out of World War II. So historical accuracy is not something that is a hallmark of the Trump campaign.
(CROSSTALK) That's right. Not a whole mark of the Trump campaign. But I think the -- this is -- this kind of strength, this is that, you know, Donald Trump isn't going to take any crap is why people like him. Unfortunately, they don't care about all of the other incoherent missteps, lies, misunderstanding of just basic foreign policy. Those kinds of things are unfortunately people are not giving any credence to and they should.
JOE VISCONTI, FORMER CONNECTICUT GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: This is an organic, unscripted event. Bobby Knight is Bobby Knight. This isn't something that was orchestrated. It's not something that Ted Cruz would do. And Ted Cruz -- he wants to bring in carpet bombing and Carly Fiorina wants to bring the sixth fleet.
SETMAYER: We're talking about dropping nuclear bombs.
VISCONTI: That's Bobby Knight.
SETMAYER: Well, Bobby Knight is a surrogate of the Trump campaign. He should be responsible for who you bring out there, don't you think?
VISCONTI: I think that Donald Trump allows people to be themselves as he's himself.
SETMAYER: Well, truth be damned.
FERGUSON: Are we really at a point now where you're saying that Donald Trump is qualified to be president because he would be eager to drop a nuclear bomb on anybody? Reagan -- Ronald Reagan, who people have been saying somehow that Donald Trump is like, would have never run for office gloating about the fact or surrounding himself with people that were advocating for him to drop nuclear weapons, and he would be the guy to do it. That is -- unprecedented.
VISCONTI: I'm sure you'll hear a statement tomorrow from the Trump campaign that says what I'm saying right now --
FERGUSON: Saying, what?
VISCONTI: Bobby Knight is Bobby Knight. He is a great man, he's a great coach.
FERGUSON: But you'll allow him to be on stage and Donald Trump didn't denounce it. Donald Trump grinned and smiled like, hell, yes. I will drop the nuclear weapon.
VISCONTI: He wouldn't let that happen. And so, you'll see something come out tomorrow. Well, the bottom-line is, Bobby Knight did this --
(TALKING OVER EACH OTHER)
He's not going to clean up his mess.
FERGUSON: Vote for me because I grin when you talk about the nuclear weapon?
BURNETT: OK.
FERGUSON: Vote for me because everyone says that I will have no problem pushing the button?
BURNETT: Pause for one moment on hitting that button.
OUTFRONT next, a CNN exclusive Jeb Bush in his first television interview since leading the race. His answer to this question about Donald Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMIE GANGEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: If he is the nominee, will you support him?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Plus, Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, a new battle tonight in their fight over the women's card.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:28:50] BURNETT: Jeb Bush taking a stand, breaking his silence today, it is his first television interview since leaving the presidential race. It is right here on CNN. You're about to see it with five days to go before the crucial Indiana primary. Bush taking a side, speaking exclusively to our Jamie Gangel.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GANGEL: Donald Trump appears to be close to magic number. Do you think the race is over? Is he the presumptive nominee?
JEB BUSH (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No, not yet. He's close. He's got to win Indiana, and therefore five other states. If he doesn't get to 50, he might -- 50 percent, he might have problems garnering the delegates.
GANGEL: Do you think there's still a viable stop Trump movement?
BUSH: Yes, I think there is a possibility that he won't get 50 percent on the first ballast. And if he doesn't do that, there are a whole lot of people that don't believe he's the proper guy.
GANGEL: Do you think the Republican Party should get around him if he's the nominee?
BUSH: I think they should support Ted Cruz.
GANGEL: So yesterday, Ted Cruz announced that his vice presidential pick would be Carly Fiorina.
[19:30:00] Was that a Hail Mary pass?
BUSH: He's behind. But after the first ballot, anything could happen. And I believe that the likely occurrence of -- if Donald Trump doesn't win the nomination on the first ballot is that Ted Cruz is the only other candidate that is likely to win the nomination.
So picking a candidate that is talented, tough, you know, she takes on Trump really well, I think, and she takes on Hillary Clinton very well as well. Someone who has got a proven record and who has been vetted as a candidate. I thought was a smart move by Ted Cruz.
GANGEL: You think it was the right pick?
BUSH: Yes. Yes, I do. I think -- I'm impressed with her.
GANGEL: You've said in the past that you didn't think that Donald Trump was ready to be president. But if he is the nominee, apart from whatever else you think might happen, whether he would beat Hillary or not, will you support him?
BUSH: I don't think he's a serious person.
GANGEL: You haven't changed your mind?
BUSH: No. I've seen nothing, the speech, you know, recent speech about foreign policy was -- you can't -- I don't know which Donald Trump to believe. The one that read from a teleprompter, a speech that was inside the lines, or the one that wants to build a wall and make Mexico pay for it. Or a 45 percent tariff on China. Or a abandoning NATO. Or saying that it's, you know -- it's -- it would be a smart thing to have Japan and Korea go it alone, and build -- make their capability to deal with China.
Which Donald Trump is the one that's expressing these views? There's two of them. And I think we need a president with a steady hand.
GANGEL: It sounds like you wouldn't vote for him.
BUSH: I hope I won't have to be faced with that dilemma. And until I am, I'm not even going to think about it.
GANGEL: Do you think there's a case to be made for Republicans voting for Hillary Clinton if he is the nominee?
BUSH: No, no. I mean, a third term of Barack Obama's hyper- aggressive use of executive power to create massive uncertainty for our economy, really restricting ability for people to have growing income, more control and power in Washington, D.C. would be a disaster.
GANGEL: Looking back at the campaign, how do you feel about how you did, what you did --
BUSH: Yes. Wow, I don't think about it too much. I've concluded that whatever mistakes I made, and I certainly made them, probably wouldn't change the outcome.
GANGEL: What do you think happened?
BUSH: It's definitely a crazy year. Look, Donald Trump was a -- still is a phenomena. GANGEL: In talking establishment Republicans --
BUSH: Who are the established Republicans? Really? I mean, this is interesting. It's an interesting concept. Who has the power?
I assume the establishment means that power brokers, right? Well, in the Republican Party, we have fiefdoms. We have tribal leaders maybe. But there is no secret scurrilous establishment that I'm aware.
Rush Limbaugh has as much power as Reince Priebus. There are people in the media that have enormous power. And, you know, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce may have some power, but it pails by comparison to many others.
The establishment is definitely -- I think we need to redefine what that is.
GANGEL: So, let me put it this way. Looking -- talking to old political pros --
BUSH: OK.
GANGEL: -- in the Republican Party, I found two camps. One camp is getting around Donald Trump. Whatever that is, and they think he may have a chance of beating Hillary Clinton.
The other camp, I would say, is called lose with Cruz. It's Stop Trump, but they don't think Cruz can win. And they think maybe it's better for the Republican Party to lose the White House in November and put itself back together again.
BUSH: Let's form a third camp, which is to pick the person who can win the nomination, there's only two people who can win the nomination right now in my mind, Ted Cruz and Donald Trump. Pick the one that has the higher probability of beating Hillary Clinton. And that's Ted Cruz.
GANGEL: If Donald Trump is the nominee, should the Republican Party -- will you rally around him?
BUSH: I am hopeful that he won't be the nominee.
GANGEL: Do you think you'll ever run for politics again?
BUSH: Who, me?
GANGEL: Yes.
BUSH: I've learned to never say never, but you know, this was my chance. This was the chance, and I ran into a storm.
GANGEL: No regrets, though.
BUSH: No. Not at all.
(END VIDEOTAPE) ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Incredibly reflective. I mean, just to see him -- you got him to be so intro speculative, Jaime.
[19:35:01] You know, one thing he said to you, though, stood out to me -- you know, specifically when he said, I don't know which Donald Trump to believe, the one when he read the foreign policy speech from the prompter or the other Donald Trump, sort of implied that he took that foreign policy speech seriously. He didn't just dismiss it as negatively as others have.
I mean, if push comes to shove, Jamie, do you think he would ever bring himself to support Trump, pull the Trump lever?
GANGEL: So, he wouldn't tell me on camera, obviously. And he didn't tell me off camera either.
But if I was Donald Trump, I wouldn't put money on getting Jeb Bush's vote. I really think that there are a group of Republicans who may just stay home this year. They won't vote for Hillary Clinton. Jeb said he would not vote for Hillary Clinton. And he was so adamant about saying he doesn't think Trump is serious, that he hadn't changed his mind.
If I had had to guess, I would say it would be more likely that maybe he would just stay home.
BURNETT: Stay home.
All right. Well, thank you very much, Jamie Gangel, truly fascinating interviews. As we said, the first time Jeb Bush has spoken, broken his silence since he got out of the race.
Next, Caitlyn Jenner tonight, takes Trump up on an offer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAITLYN JENNER: Last week, Donald Trump said I could take a pee anywhere in the Trump facility so I am going to take a pee in the ladies' room.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And Trump's new woman card attack against Hillary Clinton.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Tonight, Donald Trump says Hillary Clinton is only succeeding because she is a woman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The only thing she's got going is the fact that she's a woman. She has done a terrible job in so many different ways. You look at Libya, you look at some of the things that she has done are just absolutely disastrous. No, I would say the primary thing that she has going is that she's a
woman and she is playing that card like I have never seen anybody play it before.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Tara Setmayer, Joe Visconti, Sally Kohn, are all back with me. Joining me now from Washington is Trump supporter Scottie Nell Hughes.
Scottie, let me start with you. You are a woman, you are a Trump supporter, I mean, just to state the obvious here since Donald Trump is going to put it all out there.
You just heard him say the only thing she's got going is the fact she's a woman. Do you think that's something he should be saying, secretary of state, senator, really?
SCOTTIE NELL HUGHES, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: Well, I mean, you look back at the secretary of state, even her own spokesman at the time could not list one of her accomplishments. Listen, there are some issues some people have with Hillary Clinton, whether she is a male or female. Name me any other candidate who would be under FBI investigation that could get to be the front runner of a political party.
We knew that she was going to demonize, that she was going to go after him and she's going to use that as an attack after anybody that went her on her record. And so, I think all that Mr. Trump is doing is neutralizing this gender issue and encouraging that once they go one- to-one, we take out the emotion of gender and just look at policy and who has the best plan for America. He's just taking care of that now.
(LAUGHTER)
SALLY KOHN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: If that's what you think he's doing, you keep going ahead and doing it. Look, first of all, it's not neutralizing anything except for the perhaps the potential for him to win the support of women come November.
But, you know, the more significant thing is, first of all, you can agree or disagree with her. You know I'm not a Hillary supporter. She's still the most qualified candidate running, period, number one.
And number two, if we're going to go there, fine. Look, people are only voting for Donald Trump, most of his supporters are only voting for him because he's a white guy. And frankly, if he were a woman or if he were, I don't know, Latino, Muslim, any of the groups that he's stoked hatred amongst his supporters, if he were any of those, I don't think he would be getting support either.
So, if you want to talk about gender and race, let's talk about gender and race, but let's really talk about the policies that these candidates support. She's the best candidate for women, and for men, for white voters, for voters of color. That's what people are deciding on. That's why they're supporting her. And she's a woman. Thank God it's time we need a president who is a
woman.
(CROSSTALK)
HUGHES: Sally, I think that's very sexist for you to say right there, in what you just said to be honest with you.
KOHN: Oh, I'm the sexist. OK. All right.
HUGHES: You have to sit there and look at the difference race -- I mean, I think that's sexist to say people are only voting for him because he's a white male. That's not right. I do admit, some women are going for Hillary because they want to be like the first female president. But I give women a lot more trust than that. I give them a lot more credit that they're looking at the policies and not necessarily what body parts they have or don't have.
KOHN: Scottie, I'm saying her gender is a factor in her candidacy, but it is certainly a factor in his -- it is certainly a factor in his too. And if you don't think he's been running to demonize communities of color in this country and to demonize women --
HUGHES: Absolutely not.
KOHN: He's called disgusting pigs, fat slobs, come on. He's making gender and issue and he is making gender an issue --
HUGHES: He's the only candidate who has an urban outreach committee right now. What other presidential candidate --
KOHN: He needs an urban outreach community.
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: All right.
HUGHES: We've talked about going in those communities. Mr. Trump is the only one actively going after diversity, representing their campaign and presenting policy to help them.
BURNETT: OK.
(CROSSTALK)
TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: He's not the only candidate in the Justice Department.
(CROSSTALK)
SETMAYER: The Justice Department has come after and sued for racial discrimination and housing.
HUGHES: The Justice Department is also investigating Hillary Clinton. So let's talk about that.
SETMAYER: I'm not defending Hillary Clinton. Let's be honest. Donald Trump isn't exactly the passion of diversity here.
BURNETT: Before we go, I want to ask you one other thing, though, speaking of white middle-aged men, OK? Jeb Bush. Jeb Bush in that interview with Jamie Gangel which I thought was incredible. He was intro speculative, talking about what he really thought.
And what he said about voting for Donald Trump and Donald Trump, whether -- who he is, was actually, I thought, really, really fascinating. Joe, let me just part quickly one more time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GANGEL: What do you think happened?
BUSH: It's definitely a crazy year. Look, Donald Trump was a -- still is a phenomena.
GANGEL: And if Donald Trump is the nominee, should the Republican Party, will you rally around him?
[19:45:01] BUSH: I am hopeful that he won't be the nominee.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So you heard Jamie say even off camera, he wouldn't commit to Donald Trump. And, in fact, her view is, he probably would stay home. Not vote for Hillary, but stay home.
JOE VISCONTI, FORMER CONNECTICUT GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: I think he'll vote for -- I think they will all in the establishment come around Donald Trump. It's going to take some time. They're in denial now. It's a very hard thing.
This is the Bush family. So I think you're going to see a big change coming in the next few weeks after he wins Indiana. Donald Trump wins Indiana. That the Bush family and a lot -- what they have to do is raise money. This is all about money going forward right now.
So, the RNC needs money. The senatorial candidates need money and Donald Trump is a rain-maker, and they're all going to have to come to the table.
BURNETT: He needs money too, because he's always said in the general, he's going to need money. So, you know, he needs money too for the --
VISCONTI: We'll see what they do with that. But I think that the Bush family has to come to the table and I think the vice president pick will be the greatest asset to Donald Trump to bring the Bush family to the table.
BURNETT: And a quick final word, Tara. Is there anything with that pick is Donald Trump is the nominee that could convince someone like you?
SETMAYER: No, no. I will never -- I will never vote for Donald Trump. "The Washington Post" had an interesting editorial today that it's a
moral calculation for a lot of us, it's a moral decision. And for me, I could never vote for someone like Donald Trump who is it not represent conservative values. He is the ultimate insider. He's a hypocrite. You know, he is a scam artist. And I just feel as though --
BURNETT: So you're going to stay home.
SETMAYER: It's a character issue for me.
HUGHES: Gender bias there.
SETMAYER: No, I'm being honest. I actually have principles, unlike a lot of people like you willing to defend anything with Donald Trump. But for me, the principle of Donald Trump not representing Republicans and in that --
HUGHES: Actually, you sound very closed-minded to be honest with you. You sound very hateful and very closed minded.
(CROSSTALK)
SETMAYER: -- because I have principles.
(CROSSTALK)
HUGHES: You are very closed-minded on this.
SETMAYER: I'm not just going to sell out to someone because he puts on a good show like you do.
BURNETT: Thank you all very much. I appreciate it.
OUTFRONT next, Caitlyn Jenner taking a side in the Cruz-Trump fight.
And Jeanne Moos on Donald Trump's biggest secret.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Everyone thinks I fly back home every night. I'm watching television at my holiday inn express. I'm at a holiday inn! Can you believe it? I'm at a holiday inn.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:50:49] BURNETT: Tonight, Caitlyn Jenner making a statement that could impact the race in Indiana.
Miguel Marquez is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JENNER: Oh, my God, a transwoman in New York. I got to take a pee anyway. My God, Trump International Hotel. I love this.
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Call it the politics of Cait, the conservative Republican transgender star injecting herself into the national debate over controversial proposals banning transgender people from using public facilities based on how they identify.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If Donald Trump dresses up as Hillary Clinton, he still can't use the little girls restroom.
MARQUEZ: In deeply religious Indiana, the issue front and center.
CRUZ: If you value religious liberty, the right of every one of us to live according to our faith and according to our conscience, to seek out and worship God Almighty without government getting in the way.
MARQUEZ: Religious voters here are crucial to Cruz, 72 percent of adults in Indiana identify as Christian, 31 percent of them as evangelicals. It is a full on battle for their support in his effort to stop Trump.
CRUZ: It doesn't make sense to allow grown adult men strangers to be alone in a bathroom with little girls. And anyone who says differently is political correctness on steroids.
MARQUEZ: Trump on the "Today" show said she could use any bathroom she wanted in Trump tower.
Jenner expressed support but not an endorsement of Cruz took the billionaire up on his offer.
JENNER: Donald Trump said I could $ take a pee anywhere in a Trump facility. I am going to go take a pee in the ladies room.
MARQUEZ: Trump says his remarks only meant that transgender people using public facilities is a state, not federal issue. Cruz not letting up, running this campaign ad across Indiana.
Evangelicals here already on the defensive after the failure of a controversial religious freedom bill made national headlines.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is about our lives.
MARQUEZ: But is it too little, too late for Cruz.
TRUMP: My mother gave me this bible.
MARQUEZ: Trump support among evangelicals is surprisingly high throughout the primaries, even besting Cruz among deeply religious voters in a majority of states.
TRUMP: I want to thank the evangelicals.
MARQUEZ: The politics of Cait. Now playing in the Hoosier state.
JENNER: Come on, OK. Thank you, Donald. I really appreciate it. By the way, Ted, nobody got molested.
MARQUEZ: Gender politics meets religion meets the Republican presidential hopefuls.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MARQUEZ: The transgender bathroom controversy is now part of Senator Cruz's stump speech as he barnstorms across Indiana. It is a state with 57 delegates at stake. It is not winner take all. The senator will need all or as many as he can get of the 57 delegates in the Hoosier State and he hopes to stop Donald Trump -- Erin.
BURNETT: Thank you very much, Miguel.
And next, guess who stayed at a holiday inn express last night?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:58:04] BURNETT: So Donald Trump is staying at the holiday inn. Here is Jeanne Moos.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He may have no experience in elected office, but he did stay at a holiday inn express.
TRUMP: I'm at a holiday inn. Can you believe it? I'm at a holiday inn, and I do it.
MOOS: And by checking into this holiday inn express in Evansville, Indiana, the Donald joins the non-surgeon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's his BP?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 120/80, you're not Dr. Stewart.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, but I did stay at a holiday inn express last night.
MOOS: And the nonnuclear scientist averting a meltdown.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Close the flow channels, activate the hydrogen recombiners.
Well, actually, I'm with a tour group, but I did stay at holiday inn express last night.
MOOS: The nonpolitician checked into a room at about $140 a night, not exactly Trump Tower.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His $100 million tri-level penthouse is inspired by Versailles.
MOOS: Versailles this ain't. You can bet a famous germaphobe like Trump instantly yanked off the bedspread before stretching out to call Melania. There's more gold plating in Trump's airplane lavatory.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Master bathroom with a shower and 24-karat gold plated sink.
MOOS: Than in this entire hotel. This is his second stay at the chain since the campaign started.
And where better for the Donald to express his opinion of holiday inn express than in a tweet. "New and clean, not bad," he wrote.
What were bad were tweets from detractors. "Are you qualified to be president? No, but I did stay at holiday inn express last night."
The Donald did what we all did after checking in.
TRUMP: I am watching television at my holiday inn express.
MOOS: Instead of commercials featuring a non-pilot.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not the pilot?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I've never done this before. But I did stay at the holiday inn express last night.
MOOS: Now holiday inn express can advertise using a non-commander in chief.
TRUMP: At my holiday inn express.
MOOS: Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: Thanks so much for joining us.
Anderson is next.
