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Erin Burnett Outfront
Trump About to Rally Supporters in Wisconsin; Sources: Advisers Told Trump Debate Didn't Go Well; Michelle Obama Goes Off on Donald Trump; Interview with Ben Carson; Interview with CIA Director John Brennan. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired September 28, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:10] ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: OUTFRONT next, the breaking news. Donald Trump about to rally supporters in Wisconsin. Meanwhile top aides break the bad news about his debate performance. Will Trump change his ways?
Plus, more breaking news. Two children and a teacher shot in a South Carolina Elementary School. We are live at the scene as the details are breaking this our hour.
And my exclusive interview with the CIA Director John Brennan and what he really thinks about Kim Jong-un. Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening, I'm Erin Burnett. And OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news. Donald Trump about to take the stage in Waukesha, Wisconsin still stinging from criticism of his debate performance against Hillary Clinton. CNN is learning tonight that Trump's advisors have put their boss on notice telling him the first debate did not go well. One Trump advisors says, quote, "Yes, he's been made aware."
The campaign now hoping Trump will prepare more seriously for the next debate which of course now they're fast and furious. It's only about a week away. Back on the campaign trail in Iowa, Trump returned to an old line of attack on Hillary Clinton today taking a shot at her health.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I've been out since June 16th. It's been full time. All the time. You see all the days off that Hillary takes? Day off. Day off. Day off. All those day offs. And then she can't even make it to her car.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: But Hillary Clinton and her top surrogates were in full swing today. Clinton out with her once bitter primary rival Bernie Sanders, trying to target young voters and the Michelle Obama was in the crucial battleground state of Pennsylvania, attacking Donald Trump but never actually mentioning him by name.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHELLE OBAMA, U.S. FIRST LADY: If a candidate thinks that not paying taxes makes you smart or that it's good business when people lose their homes. If a candidate regularly and flippantly makes cruel and insulting comments about women, about how we look, how we act. Well, sadly, that who that candidate really is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And it was very day on the campaign trail. Election Day is only 41 days away.
We begin our coverage tonight with Jim Acosta who was at that Trump rally in Waukesha, Wisconsin. And Jim, you just got a copy of the Trump campaign talking points. And obviously they are trying to spin this situation. What are they saying?
JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Obviously Donald Trump wants to shift focus back to Hillary Clinton. He's been trying to do that all day long. But we just obtained these talking points from a source connected to the Trump campaign and these talking points lay out how the Trump campaign plans to do battle over these allegations being made by the former Miss Universe Alicia Machado.
One of these talking points says that if the other side is going to be bringing up people like this Miss Universe winner in the past, why can't the media bring up people like Monica Lewinsky and women that Bill Clinton has had affairs with in the past.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA (voice-over): It's a he said she said that's getting in a way of Donald Trump's quest to be crowned the winner in November.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Hillary Clinton who I happen to believe is grossly incompetent is going to increase taxes. Should be very very bad for our country. I think it would be worse than four more years of Obama.
ACOSTA: Now his fight with Hillary Clinton which is raging on after a shaky debate performance.
ANNOUNCER: You are the new miss universe.
ACOSTA: But with Alicia Machado. The former Miss Universe who says, Trump once called her Miss Piggy for gaining weight. Now a high profile surrogate for Clinton.
ALICIA MACHADO, FORMER MISS UNIVERSE: No more insults for the women. Somebody like that can't be a president.
ACOSTA: The Trump campaign fired back, releasing a statement saying, these are totally baseless and unsubstantiated claims by Miss Machado.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: He called this woman Miss Piggy. Then he called her Miss Housekeeping because --
ACOSTA: It was the Machado moment that caught Trump by surprise at Monday's debate. TRUMP: Where did you --
ACOSTA: To Trump declare himself the winner in that face-off, he's hissing he will get more aggressive and perhaps try to target Clinton with her husband's past affairs. A risky move for Trump who's had a share of infidelities.
TRUMP: I watch her very carefully and I was also holding back. I didn't want do anything to embarrass her.
ACOSTA: Trump's son Eric describes her father's restrain on the topic as a gutsy move.
ERIC TRUMP, SON OF DONALD TRUMP: I think that took a lot of courage on so many regards. And I think, you know, I think he really answered that well and took the high ground.
ACOSTA: Trump advisors maintain the GOP nominee will do more debate prep but -- next round with Clinton. But at his rallies, Trump supporters are standing by their candidate. Whether it is his battle with Machado --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have a title to uphold. You may be a little out of line. But I still think he did right by what he did.
[19:05:15] ACOSTA: Or the Clintons.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know that Bill's lifestyle necessarily is Hillary's lifestyle choices. But I think the character is on the table.
ACOSTA: And another sign that the Trump campaign is doing damage control after these allegations being leveled by Alicia Machado, the former Miss Universe pageant winner, Erin. We're being told by the Trump campaign that they plan to have a former Miss Wisconsin appear with Donald Trump on stage later on in this rally that's happening in just a few moments -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right, Jim. As we await. That Phil Mattingly is OUTFRONT. And Phil, Donald Trump has said at an earlier rally today in Iowa that he didn't understand how anyone could think Hillary Clinton won the debate earlier this week. But obviously we know that his advisors have come to him and said that is now how they see it, he has not. They've told him a different message. What are you hearing from your sources?
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well behind the scenes, Erin, there is frustration among some Trump advisors that I've spoken to, that there were opportunities at this debate for Trump to attack and he just let them go. Part of the reason many of his advisors believe is because of that lack of debate prep. A big point that Trump tried to make going in that debate but clearly a weakness coming out of the debate. Now, that frustration doesn't just extend to advisors about Trump's debate performances, also extends according to sources to the people who are watching the reaction in the wake of the debate. Erin, I just got off the phone with somebody who was on a call, held
it from Trump Tower with top Trump surrogates and the point to these surrogates I was told is quote, "not subtle." And that is, they need to change the tone about how Trump did in the debate. They need at least the public facing operation to make clear that Trump did well in the debate despite the polls, despite the narrative that we've seen.
The message I'm told from one of the people who is on the call is, Donald Trump and his team are very unhappy with how this is being perceived right now. And everything needs to be done to shift that narrative. Of course the unspoken issue there is Erin that it is not necessarily the surrogates that are the problem. It is the candidate himself.
BURNETT: All right. Phil Mattingly, thank you.
And OUTFRONT now, from a campaign manager for Donald Trump, Corey Lewandowski, who is still receiving severance from the Trump campaign. He is our political commentator. Clinton supporter Nayyera Haq who worked as State Department's spokesperson for Secretary Clinton. Our executive editor for politics Mark Preston. And political reporter for the Washington, Philip Bump.
Mark, let me just start with you. With the optics of tonight. The Trump campaign, Donald Trump going to be appearing at this rally with a former Miss Wisconsin.
MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: Right.
BURNETT: She is someone who said she had an incurable illness that Donald Trump was instrumental in helping her and her son financially during that horrible time. She's speaking very highly of his character. He's putting her now front and center in response to Miss Universe.
Yes. No doubt to try and redirect and also trying to push away any of the negative stories that have come out in the last 48 hours, you know, with the Miss Universe contestant winner. What's interesting about this is that Trump is continuing on with this line of -- of information. And allowing it to stay in the spotlight. So Trump obviously thinks that this is a smart strategy, you know, at this point. But who knows really?
BURNETT: So Phillip, do you agree with these prolonging the story of Miss Universe by putting a former Miss Wisconsin out there?
PHILIP BUMP, POLITICAL REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Yes. I mean, this has been Donald Trump's problem for months now. Is that he'll get hit and he will get into this prolonged fight. I mean, result of the Khan family after the conventions. Right? He just, he -- and we saw it at the debate. He has this instinctual tendency to want to hit back. And so that tends to get him into trouble. You know, I agree with Mark.
That I think there is a potential upside here and, you know the other potential upside here is that it also helps rebut these questions about how much he's given to non-profits, how much he's given to the charity by bringing up some of the (INAUDIBLE) money. But it still keeps the story going, keeps the story going tonight, keeps the story going probably into tomorrow as well and I don't see how that helps with women voters.
BURNETT: Corey, smart?
COREY LEWANDOWSKI, FORMER DONALD TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: I think what you have is, you have a series of women over the course of a 30 or 40 year business career that Donald Trump has worked with and had in the highest levels of his company. And I think what he wants to do today by bringing out the former Miss Wisconsin is talking about not just his business relationship but someone who has helped personally. Someone who had helped survive when they have a tough economic time and talk about his charitable giving, talk about the compassion, the empathy that he shows to people that many times isn't being reported.
BURNETT: So, Nayyera, let me ask you. Senator Claire McCaskill, prominent Clinton supporter, senator, sitting senator, tweeted this in response to Donald Trump. Donald Trump of course with the comments Miss Universe said that he made about her calling her fat. Senator Claire McCaskill says, the d-women senators, Democrats have talked and we're concerned about Donald weight. Campaign stress. We think a public daily weigh in is called for. Should the Clinton campaign disavow that? Is that appropriate for a siting senator to --
NAYYERA HAQ, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT, SPOKESWOMAN UNDER CLINTON AND KERRY: Well, we're at a point, none in this campaign but just, you know, broader discourse in which we are now fighting back against some very basic things that you should not say about people. So, if you are an executive, you should not have to be told like Donald Trump is now being told, don't comment on women's weight.
Don't make ethnic remarks. Don't make racist jokes. I mean, that should be part of the standard and unfortunately now, this is something that's become very common and very easy to do. And I will say that Senator McCaskill is touching on something that Donald Trump's own doctor did talk about in the rambling letter --
(CROSSTALK)
[19:10:34] BURNETT: Trump surrogate tweeted out that Hillary Clinton needed to weigh in every day. Just imagine that.
HAQ: But the doctor did say that he is 20 pounds overweight. Trump admitted it. So, it is a challenge.
LEWANDOWSKI: This is egregious.
HAQ: Here's the thing. We've gotten to this point where, you know, sniffling and coughing is suddenly, oh my God, you have got the flu and maybe SARS. And health is every minute all the time the thing he gets back to about Hillary that a surrogate has made what I think is a passing joke and aside about his health and really the broader point is about, you should not be making jokes about people's weight because it doesn't feel good when you got it yourself. LEWANDOWSKI: When Hillary Clinton had her episode on 9/11. Whatever
that episode was. She wasn't feeling well. Do you know what Donald Trump said? We wish you the best. The best health. There was no comments made, it was never tweeted about. And, you know what I saw yesterday? Howard Dean, a top surrogate for Hillary Clinton intimating, more than intimating that Donald Trump is addicted to cocaine.
Where is the media outrage from a top Clinton surrogate that the leading candidate for the president of the United States is a cocaine addict and no one raises this issue? And there is no rebuttal from the Clinton campaign that says Howard Dean is so out of line, he should actually apologize? This is egregious.
BURNETT: Let me ask you a question Mark. To Corey's point. And this is different. This is different. And I know you want to make that point. But Howard Dean did say on Twitter implying that Trump used cocaine. Then when he was asked about it in an interview, he said he sniffs, which is something users do. He also uses grandiosity which is something that a company is his problem. OK. He doubled down.
PRESTON: Right.
BURNETT: Does the Clinton campaign need to disavow something like that?
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: -- former candidate --
PRESTON: Right. Right. A former chairman of the Democratic Party as well. And almost the nominee back in 2004 for the Democratic Party. Here is the deal. It is a doctor. OK. So now he's making a judgment based upon what he seen on television, which we know that never works. We know that doesn't work.
BURNETT: Right.
PRESTON: So no. Does the Clinton campaign. Should they come out proactively and put a statement out? Strategically I would say no. If Hillary Clinton is asked about it, if there's a spokesperson asked about it. I would address it. Howard Dean doesn't work for the campaign. Much like all the stupid things that we hear from Trump supporters, on occasion. I don't think Donald Trump has to speak for all of them unless --
BURNETT: Right. I just think Phil, you know, there is a lot of pressure put on Donald Trump to constantly disavow things that people say who may or may not be affiliated with his campaign. This is similar, isn't it?
BUMP: I mean, you know, all these things are individual isolated incidents.
BURNETT: Yes. BUMP: Like I think the Claire McCaskill thing is nothing like the Howard Dean thing. The Howard Dean thing is stupid and I think to Mark's point, yes, if the campaign should absolutely say, yes, this is ridiculous. I mean, I do think though that we're also operating in this sphere where one of the candidates says, I'm not p.c. and I don't care.
And I say what I believe. Right? And it just seems like, it's a little disingenuous I think to sort of take issue with getting this sort of flak. And I also think what Claire McCaskill is doing is very obvious which is trying to reinforce the point I was making early which is that Donald Trump is fairly easy to get under his skin and that's clearly what she's trying to do.
BURNETT: All right. And you're all going to stay with me. Because next, Donald Trump is about to take the stage and joining him tonight will be a former Miss Wisconsin. One beauty queen versus another.
Plus, my exclusive interview with the CIA Director John Brennan on whether there are ISIS cells right now in the United States. And Michelle Obama going off on Donald Trump.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:16:58] BURNETT: You are looking at live pictures right now out of Wisconsin on your screen. Donald Trump is about to begin a campaign rally there and we are waiting to see what he will say to a blistering attack today from Michelle Obama. Because she at the campaign trail today delivering what may be her harshest criticism yet in the pair of speeches. Harry Potter style that the First Lady did not say Trump's name. There is no doubt though who she was talking about.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Preparation matters. Temperament matters. And Hillary Clinton has it all. She's the real deal.
Being president isn't anything like reality TV. It is not an apprenticeship. And it is not just about fiery speeches or insulting tweets.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Jeff Zeleny is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tonight, Hillary Clinton is desperately seeking millennials.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: The next 40 days will determine the next 40 years.
ZELENY: And she's calling in reinforcements. Hoping their glow fires up young voters still uncertain about her candidacy. Bernie Sanders at her side at the University of New Hampshire. SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This election
is enormously important for the future of our country. It is imperative that we elect Hillary Clinton as our next president.
ZELENY: And Michelle Obama delivering a blunt message to college students today in Pennsylvania. Don't be tempted by a third party candidate.
MICHELLE OBAMA: Because here's the truth. Either Hillary Clinton or her opponent will be elected president this year. And if you vote for someone other than Hillary, or if you don't vote at all, then you are helping to elect Hillary's opponent.
ZELENY: Putting her popularity on the line, the First Lady making clear how personal this election is, after Donald Trump spent years falsely questioning her husband's citizenship.
MICHELLE OBAMA: And let me say, hurtful, deceitful questions, deliberately designed to undermine his presidency. Questions that cannot be blamed on others or swept under the rug but an insincere sentence uttered at a press conference.
ZELENY: It's all part of the Democratic effort to fill one of the biggest holes in rebuilding the Obama coalition. Persuading young voters to support Clinton as enthusiastically as they did Obama. The Clinton campaign is hoping Sanders, a one-time better rival persuades some of his old supporters to back her. She took her sit today as he promoted her tuition free college plan today.
SANDERS: -- of student debt.
ZELENY: The audience was still with former Sanders' supporters like Abby Colby.
ABBY COLBY, FORMER SANDERS SUPPORTERS: I kind of told myself that if Bernie didn't win the primary it would be rather childish of me to not support Clinton.
ZELENY: Often say, the level is excitement is among your friends for Hillary Clinton.
COLBY: I think it is definitely building. It was definitely a bitter sweet when Bernie lost the primary and Hillary won. And we just saw the first debate and we see what Hillary is up against and I think momentum is starting to build and people are starting to accept Clinton.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZELENY: But starting to accept Clinton, that is one of the things that worries the campaign, Erin. By this point many advisors believe they should already be excited. That is why they are bringing Bernie Sanders out, Michelle Obama out and the President first and foremost. But I'm told tonight that Bernie Sanders will be stepping up his campaigning for Secretary Clinton. He'll be going back to many of those Democratic primary states that he won like Wisconsin, Michigan and others. Trying to make the case to young voters in particular. Now, millennials outpace baby boomers. That is why this is so important for the Clinton campaign to get them to the polls -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Jeff, thank you so much. Panel is back with me.
Corey, let me start with you on this. When you look at Michelle Obama. She's effective and people like her. And maybe they like her because she's not running for office or in office. But they like her. She's more popular than her husband. She's more popular than Bill Clinton and she's more popular than Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump both of whom are tied at 42 percent. Not very popular. She's at 58. Are you worried that she can get turnout up?
[19:21:08] LEWANDOWSKI: Well, I think she's a great surrogate to Hillary Clinton. There is no question about it. My concern is that you have got the first lady who is being overtly political now. I can't remember in my lifetime a first lady who's out formally attacking the nominee for the previous party. So I don't remember Laura Bush doing this. I don't remember Barbara Bush doing this. As a matter of fact, I don't remember Hillary Clinton doing this.
So you have a first lady who has unbelievable high approval numbers right now. But I think what's going to happen as you engage with the last five and a half weeks of this campaign. You know, her being aggressive for Hillary Clinton and her going out attacking --
BURNETT: You think that's going to hurt more?
LEWANDOWSKI: Look, I think her going on and attacking Donald Trump is going to hurt her. Look, the question is, why is the First Lady doing this? And when was the last time a sitting incumbent president had the coattails to carry their party next nominee? One time in the last 40 years is when it happened.
HAQ: It's a really easy question to answer why Michelle Obama is doing this. And that's the fact that they have been in office for eight years and there is an entire generation out there, the millennial voters that we keep talking about who only know these two as a formative president of their lifetime. Michelle Obama as, you've admitted, is very real, very approachable. She's seen as the leader in her own right. That is very appealing to people. She's not going to do things similar to first ladies from 15, 20, 30 years ago.
She's on snapchat. She has -- celebrity. This is very appealing not just to millennial voters but people who want to see a first lady whose more relatable, who was not somebody who is staying inside the White House but as a woman with intelligence and opinions in her own right. And that I think the particularly in terms of her not using Donald Trump's name is another sign of what we saw the one line that keeps resonating with people, particularly I think women, that when they go low, we go high. She's addressing --
BURNETT: She keeps saying that.
HAQ: She keeps saying that. And Hillary repeats that line herself too because it resonates. It is a way that for people in this very vitriolic political environment to be able to actually have conversations about what's going on, without getting really deeply personal.
BURNETT: Okay.
PRESTON: Can I just say -- very close to Michelle Obama, the First Lady. This is very personal for her. Donald Trump had said for many years now --
(CROSSTALK)
PRESTON: She doesn't like Donald Trump says that her husband is not a U.S. citizen, right? Donald Trump wants to unwind everything that her husband has built up. And as far as the name thing goes, it is about respect at this point. As someone very close to her said to me, she's never named names with him and you can draw your own conclusions about that. She hates him so much.
BURNETT: It's just a sign of disrespect --
PRESTON: I am not going to put his name out there. And look, he has a hundred percent name ID so everybody knows who he is anyway. But yes, there is a personalness.
HAQ: It's a way to be very classy but still get the political point across.
LEWANDOWSKI: Hillary Clinton's problem isn't Donald Trump when it comes to millenials. Her problem is Gary Johnson. Right? She has absolutely no connection to millennials.
BURNETT: Well, I don't know about that. But the Quinnipiac poll --
LEWANDOWSKI: None. Gary Johnson is doing significantly better.
BURNETT: She is winning the 18 to 34 vote. Quinnipiac poll late last month by two points against Gary Johnson. So, that is almost tied and five points against Trump. I mean, that is incredibly tight. You're right about that.
BUMP: Well, when you put them head to head, there is a huge gap. I mean, if it is just Clinton versus Trump. And that is the decision that they are trying to force here. That's why they got --
(CROSSTALK)
They're trying to say, this is their choice. Yes. And Gary Johnson, yes, he'll be on the ballot and a lot of this, you know, to be honest is the same sort of petulance we see from everyone who isn't -- who backs the wrong candidate, who backs the losing candidate. Right? This was a group that is very strong. Bernie Sanders, you just saw the interview right there. And now they are, you know, these are folks that like an Independent sort of candidate who was running as a Democrat and now they are looking at Hillary Clinton, they don't really see that, that sort of toying with the Gary Johnson. But what the campaign is doing is they're trying to say, look, that is not the choice. The choice here is Hillary Clinton --
HAQ: Well what the campaign is doing is getting Hillary out there in a variety of settings and taking the moment from the debate that a record number of people watched and carrying it through to new audiences like millennials, women and people of color.
BURNETT: But most people in this country --
HAQ: Donald Trump by contrast is doing exactly the same thing he's always done.
BURNETT: But people want Gary Johnson on that stage. Americans want --
PRESTON: On the debate stage.
BURNETT: Yes.
PRESTON: Yes. But there are rules. And he's never going to be on that stage. He's got 15 percent. His words would -- up yesterday. I'm sure Donald Trump would love to see Gary Johnson on the stage.
BURNETT: Yes.
LEWANDOWSKI: Gary Johnson campaign is a bad day for Hillary Clinton because he's taking votes directly away from her and same with Jill Stein.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you both. All of you, sorry.
OUTFRONT next, Dr. Ben Carson on what Donald Trump needs to do to win the debate. He is my guest. And breaking news, a shooting at an Elementary School in South Carolina today. Some shocking details as this is coming in. We're going to bring you the very latest in our show. We'll be back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:29:30] BURNETT: New tonight, you're looking at live pictures. That is Donald Trump rally in Wisconsin. He's going to be there. A state Trump lost to Ted Cruz by 13 percentage points. But in the past few months, the race there has tightened between Clinton and Trump.
OUTFRONT now, former Republican presidential candidate Dr. Ben Carson who of course has endorsed Donald Trump.
And Dr. Carson, thank you very much for coming on the show tonight. In the audience in that rally tonight is going to be a former Miss Wisconsin, Melissa Young. She is obviously is a very positive view of Donald Trump says that he helped her out during a very tough time. Her appearance though comes on the heels of Hillary Clinton slamming Donald Trump for criticizing the weight of the former Miss Universe Alicia Machado.
[19:30:07] Do you think this entire controversy about Trump's comments on Machado caught him off guard? BEN CARSON (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE; ENDORSED DONALD TRUMP:
I think that that is the kind of thing that is going to continue to occur. People -- that is basically a bomb that's thrown out there in order to distract. And Donald Trump's winning card will be to be able to disregard that and refocus on the things that are important.
There is a reason that two to one the people in this country think that there is a major problem and that we're on the wrong track. Those are the things that need to be addressed.
I would like to see them both address those things because they have such varying philosophies on how to attack these things. So, let's put those philosophies out there for the American people to be able to make a real judgment of the direction they want to go.
BURNETT: So, let me ask you. When you say that you should disregard what was said and refocus, what was something he obviously did not do in the debate and several times when Hillary Clinton said things about him. He engaged in what she said. He played defense even in the case of this. Now, here he is still two days later talking about it, bringing out Miss Wisconsin.
Have you told him specifically what you think he can do differently or better at the next debate?
CARSON: Well, I don't want to get into private conversations but he's certainly heard loud and clear. Remember, this is his first one on one debate. And I think there is a learning curve for that. I think he will have learned a lot from this. And I think you will probably see a bit different way of approaching it for the next debate.
BURNETT: And when vow say he's heard loud and clear. He's heard loud and clear. Look, it didn't go well. You need to make changes.
CARSON: Well, I don't know that I would say it didn't go well. But it didn't go as well as it could have. Remember, in 17 out of 21 polls, particularly online poll, which tend to be people who are very engaged, he won. So, I don't know that you can necessarily pick the few where he lost and that that represents what everybody thinks.
BURNETT: OK, I'm just going to only say, just for point of clarity, for everyone to know, those online polls are ones where you can vote as many times as you want. So, that is why we don't use them here. The scientific polls did show that he lost. But I'm not trying to argue with you but I just want our viewers to understand.
I want to ask you about Eric Trump --
CARSON: So, sort of like what happens in some of the city where is don't, you know, monitor the voting appropriately. And that is one thing that I think is very important. Should be important to both sides.
BURNETT: So, Eric Trump said it took courage. He said it took courage for his father not to go after Bill Clinton in the debate for his infidelities. Trump said he might hit harder next time by raising that particular issue. Would it be a mistake in your view to bring that up at a debate?
CARSON: Well, it's certainly -- again, I want to emphasize, the things that are so critical to our nation right now, you know, fiscal responsibility, terrorism, immigration, schools, you know, prison reform, fairness for everybody in our society. I think is important to point out what the differences are. But the most important thing is to really lay out a program.
He has a very strong program. You know, for instance, on regulations, and has said that he's going look at all the regulations and get rid of the ones that are not helpful to the people of the United States, barely touched on that.
Those are the kinds of things that I think will really resonate. This other stuff, as you noticed, when I was campaigning, I didn't even go near that stuff because it just doesn't make any sense and it's not what's important.
BURNETT: All right. Dr. Carson, thank you very much. I appreciate it.
CARSON: Thank you.
BURNETT: And we're following some breaking news in Washington. A major defeat today for President Obama. Congress overwhelmingly voting to override President Obama's veto of a bill that allows 9/11 victims to sue Saudi Arabia for that country's alleged role in 9/11.
And this is really stunning defeat. It's the first successful override of his veto during his nearly eight years in office. The Senate vote, by the way, stunning, 97-1. The House, 348-77.
Late today, President Obama told Jake Tapper that the victims deserve support and compensation, but he believes overriding his veto is a big mistake.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Sometimes, you have to do what's hard. And, frankly, I wish Congress here had done what's hard. I didn't expect it, because voting -- if you're perceived as voting against 9/11 families right before an election, not surprisingly, that's a hard vote for people to take, but it would have been the right thing to do.
[19:35:13] And I am concern and this is not just my concern. General Dunford, chairman of the Joint Chiefs, said this is a bad idea. Secretary of defense said it was a bad idea. And then we found out some of the people who voted for it said frankly we didn't know what was in it. And there was no debate of it. And it was basically a political vote.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: The president says that bill will allow Americans to be subject to lawsuits of this sort who are overseas. You can see all of Jake Tapper's town hall with President Obama tonight at 9:00.
Next, two students and a teacher wounded by a shooter in a South Carolina elementary school. A terrifying scene today and the details are just coming in. We're going to be live on the scene.
And CIA Director John Brennan on Kim Jong-un and North Korea's nuclear weapons.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BRENNNA, CIA DIRECTOR: He thinks this is his ticket to greatness. I think it is his ticket to oblivion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:40:07] BURNETT: Breaking news: an elementary school shooting tonight leaving three injured, two children. Another man, the gunman's father was also killed. The attack taking place in Townville, South Carolina, about two hours east from the state's capital. Police say the alleged gunman, a teenager, is now in custody.
Victor Blackwell is live OUTFRONT in Townville, where the shooting happen.
A pretty horrifying scene, Victor, today. I mean, what are you learning a about exactly what happened?
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Erin, two young boys and a teacher shot here an a playground at this elementary school. The teacher shot in the shoulder, one boy shot in the leg and a second boy with more severe injuries flown to a trauma center about 30 miles away in Greenville, South Carolina.
And we're told this happened very quickly. A call came in just before 2:00 of a person on campus with a gun, turns out it was a teenage with a handgun. Investigators say they're told this boy was 14 years old, and it was a volunteer firefighter who tackled him and took him down. He was then sent off to police custody tonight.
Now, we know that after the shooting, minutes later, there was another call that came in about three and a half miles down the road, a man was found shot to death. Investigators told us that man was the shooters father, 47-year-old Jeffrey Osbourne. So, a connection do that scene but no connection to the victims here.
Were these boy, was this teacher, they were targeted? We don't know.
But I can tell you, my producer and I, we made the three and a half mile drive from where Osbourne was found dead and the school and this was the first public building. So, this could be a random shooting. We still have not gotten information from investigators.
But we can tell you, the teacher and the student were shot in the shoulder and leg respectively have been released. But that boy who was flown to the trauma center, he under went emergency surgery and is still at the hospital, Erin.
BURNETT: And, Victor, before we go, the gunman. I mean, there's some eerie similarities here just when you look at the headlines of what happened in Newtown, a teenage boy killing in this case his father going to school.
Do you have any sense about the motive?
BLACKWELL: Why he did this? Investigators have not said if they know and not made that public. We can tell you they have searched a truck that was here. Potentially, he drove to this location for evidence. That was just sent away.
We do know that South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley is here meeting with families. Potentially, we'll hear from her later. But investigators have said that there is no evidence of terror here, or that it's racially motivated. And you remember the last time we were here in South Carolina, covering a shooting, it was the shooting at Mother Emmanuel last June when Dylann Roof walked on that church and killed nine people -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Victor, thank you very much.
And OUTFRONT next, my exclusive conversation with the director of the CIA, John Brennan. We'll talk about Donald Trump's relationship with Vladimir Putin.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: New tonight: investigators now believe they have identified the two men seen on video removing a pressure cooker bomb from luggage in New York City. Law enforcement officials say they worked for an Egyptian Airline. They were visiting New York. And they are talking to officials overseas to try to find the men. It comes as the father of the bombing suspect still insists that no one in his family knew what Ahmad Rahami was up to.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
INTERVIEWER: Do you think he did this by himself or?
MOHAMMAD RAHAMI, BOMBING SUSPECT'S FATHER: He did everything by himself. He buy everything by himself. He order online. He did it by himself.
INTERVIEWER: Did anybody see him building the bomb?
RAHAMI: Nothing. Nobody.
INTERVIEWER: Something suspicious going on in that bedroom?
RAHAMI: Nobody, believe me. I guarantee.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BURNETT: I interviewed the CIA Director John Brennan earlier and asked if he believed that Rahami acted alone.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN BRENNAN, CIA DIRECTOR: Well, it's unclear and I think the investigation is continuing to go on and what type of associations or affiliations he may have developed over time. But I think what is clear is that he was able to carry this out with a relatively limited amount of support. What he did in terms of placing those IEDs, these are thing that individuals are able to do, acquiring materials that are available in the open market, and they go online and they see, whether it's ISIL or al Qaeda, providing them the recipes to pulling this together.
So, these individual, lone actors, they may be encouraged. They may have contacts. They may have associates. But at the same time, a lot of them are able to carry this out totally on their own.
BURNETT: So, are you concerned there could be ISIS cells here or operatives here, and you may not know about them or know what about what they are planning because they are actually using messaging services that are encrypted in such a way that you actually can't see them?
BRENNAN: Well, I think any good counterterrorism professional, and I know I've had conversation with Jim Comey on the FBI, you cannot assume that there is nobody in the homeland. What you need to do is to be able to continue to uncover and use intelligence what they might be doing here, who's in contact with whom, and their operational security is really quite advanced and they make it difficult for law enforcement and intelligence to identify them.
So I think we have to assume that there is something here in the states.
BURNETT: You've talked before about ways they would try to come into the United States, whether by directly coming to the United States and not familiar with their name. You've also talked about refuge flows as a way to come. We saw that obviously in the Paris attacks. Are you concerned about that in the United States?
BRENNAN: I think ISIS and ISIL have demonstrated a real versatility in terms of how they're going to carry out their nefarious plan, goals, to take advantage of whatever medium is available and whether the way to get people here, whether or not it's again, connecting with people through digital domain and cyber contacts. Whether it is sending people here legally and having individuals who are not on our radar screen, who may not be on a watch list who come here and apply for visa and get into the United States, as well as people who may want to take advantage of the refugee flows.
BURNETT: So, do you feel confident with refugees that you're able to tell who they are and what they are about? I mean, I know some countries can't even do that. They don't even know who those people are. So, do you know who all these people are? BRENNAN: Nothing is going to be a hundred percent guaranteed, that's
for sure. But in terms of tapping into all the information that we have, all the bits of data that resides within the U.S. government, I have confidence that we have done a very thorough job of pulsing those individuals who want to come here against the data sets.
[19:50:13] So that if there is any indicator that they have contacts with terrorist organizations or they may be coming here for nefarious purposes, that we are going to be able to identify that data that associates them with that.
BURNETT: You know, you have said in some remarks recently that ISIS is a greater threat an al Qaeda in some ways. Sort, when it comes to your knowledge of what their planning, how important is human intelligence right now?
BRENNAN: It is critically important. There is no single intelligence capability that's goings to give us the insight we need. So, human intelligence in terms of having people who have the access, who have the eyes and ears that we need in order to reveal what ISIS may be planning.
BURNETT: So, when you're talking about al-Baghdadi's inner circle or groups like that, do you have eyes and ears?
BRENNAN: What we are doing is very methodically, deliberately removing individuals from the battlefield of ISIS, a number of senior members of the organization. There as Abu Muhammad Al-Adnani, who was removed in a coalition strike, as well as (INAUDIBLE), these are two very senior members of the organization. I'm confident that we're going to be able to remove other members of the organization. Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, his time is limited. So, it's just a question of whether he's going to be removed this week, this month, next month, or in the coming months.
BURNETT: So, the question of why is al Baghdadi still alive? The answer is not for much longer.
BRENNAN: Well, the answer is, the reason why he's alive is that they really do practice tremendous operational security. They know that we are looking fur them but it is a significant challenge.
BURNETT: So, the former Defense Secretary Bob Gates wrote in recent op-ed, which I'm sure you saw about a lot of the challenges. But one of them was North Korea. He said North Korea would have nuclear weapon capable of striking United States mainland within the first term of the next president.
You are the one who actually has the intelligence. Is that true?
BRENNAN: We are looking at Kim Jong un's continued development of his ballistic missile capability and he has a number of ballistic missiles with different types of ranges, whether medium range or intercontinental range. And we also know he's continued to develop his nuclear arsenal. One of the things very we're concerned about is mating those nuclear warheads with those ballistic missiles and they could deliver to a target.
Now, whether or not he could do that with confidence that it is going to survive the drama that exists, as you send something into the range of going after the United States, I think is uncertain.
BURNETT: When it comes to human integration again North Korea in many ways seems to be a black hole, sort of -- it appears often they are surprised often in the most recent tests that he was conducting. Do you have intelligence -- human intelligence on what's happening in North Korea?
BRENNAN: Well, we have intelligence that gives us a sense of what he is continuing to try to do. I'm not going to go into details about the nature of our intelligence, but I must tell you that this is an intelligence challenge. It is considered to be a hard target --
BURNETT: How would you describe him? What are the right words? When you think of him as a leader, what he's capable of doing, how do you describe -- what are the words you use for Kim Jong-un?
BRENNAN: A megalomaniac, calculating. I wouldn't say he's reckless at this point, because I think he's taken steps that really go up to the brink. But do not go past it, that would generate some type of action against him from either regional players, the United States.
He is determined, in terms of having North Korea acknowledged as nuclear state. He is delusional, because he believes that the world is going to accept a nuclear North Korea and allow it to maintain that arsenal. And he thinks this is his ticket to greatness. I think has his ticket to oblivion.
BURNETT: Hacking is a very big issue. Obviously, right now, everyone is dealing with it. You dealt with the personally because it happened to you with your personal e-mail. The DNC has been hacked. U.S. intelligence sources say it was Russian that was responsible. Do you expect, would you be surprised by some big leak in October that comes out that is very influential in this election?
BRENNAN: I think what's clear a lot of e-mail systems have very vulnerable to this type of hacking. So, as we get closer to the election if there are actors or countries that have particular objectives, either to discredit or help to burnish the credentials of individual candidates, I am concerned that they are going to use this time to release that information.
BURNETT: And again, of course, Russia has -- is everybody pointing the finger on this, getting involved in this election. Donald Trump has said many positive things about Vladimir Putin again and again. Here are some.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think I get along very long with Vladimir Putin.
[19:55:02] Putin is a nicer person than I am. I like him because he called me a genius. If he says great things about me, I'm going to say great things about him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: What's your reaction when you hear that?
BRENNAN: Well, as director of CIA, I don't involve myself in campaign politics. I will say though that when I look at Russia right now, we know that Mr. Putin has been very aggressive on the foreign policy front but also very aggressive in the cyber realm.
And we know that Russians are very active in that area. They have done some things in the past years that tried to effect certain elections in different countries. So I think what we have to be very wary of what the Russians may be doing. I think we have to be careful about believing some things they say publicly or disavowing any types of activities they may be engaged in.
Russia is an adversary in a number of areas and as the CIA director --
BURNETT: And it is a word you used, anniversary.
BRENNAN: Yes. When I look at what's going on in Syria right now, I'm very annoyed and frustrated the Russians have not been following through on their commitments to apply pressure on the Syrian regime to stop its horrific bombing of innocent men, women and children in places like Aleppo.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: And you can see more of my interview with the CIA director this weekend on OUTFRONT CNN International program. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: And thank you so much for joining us. Don't miss our town hall with President Obama tonight at 9:00.
"AC360" starts now.
