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Erin Burnett Outfront
Awaiting Trump, Clinton Dueling Rallies in North Carolina; Donald Trump About to Speak at Rally in North Carolina; Melania Trump Defends Trump in Rare Speech; Interview with Evan McMullin; Clinton, Trump in Dead Heat in New Florida Polls. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired November 03, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:08] ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: OUTFRONT next, the breaking news. Dueling Trump and Clinton rallies at this hour, 30 miles apart as polls show a neck and neck race with five days until Election Day. And Melania Trump hits the campaign trail saying as first lady she'd take on internet bullies. Will she start at home?
And Trump versus Obama trading insults and mocking each other. Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening. I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news. Dueling rallies at this moment. Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton only 30 miles apart both in the crucial state of North Carolina. It is a must-win state for Donald Trump. Both candidates about to rally supporters live this hour. And we're going to be taking you there. These are the final arguments in the final hours of this race.
And the latest national polls show the race is tightening even more with only five days to go. The CNN poll of polls which is an average of the polls nationwide shows Clinton up by four. CBS News, "New York Times," Clinton up by three. ABC News "Washington Post," Clinton up today by two. Hillary Clinton who's victory depends on turning out the same people who voted for President Obama, attacking Trump today over his treatment of African-Americans.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: He re-tweets white supremacists and spreads racially tinged conspiracy theories. Donald Trump was endorsed by the official newspaper of the Ku Klux Klan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Of course an endorsement he rejected. Donald Trump making his closing argument today, slamming Clinton over the e-mail probe.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: She shouldn't even be allowed to run for the office of president. She shouldn't be allowed. And that is where the system is rigged. She shouldn't be allowed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Now, Melania Trump making a rare appearance on the trail in Pennsylvania today. She gave a speech and spoke about her experience as an immigrant.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MELANIA TRUMP, WIFE OF DONALD TRUMP: I grew up in a small town in Slovenia near a beautiful river and forests. Of course we always knew about the incredible place called America. America was the word for freedom and opportunity. America meant if you could dream it, could become it.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: A lot to get to tonight with these five days to go.
Phil Mattingly is at the Clinton rally in Raleigh, North Carolina. Jim Acosta right now at the Trump rally in Selma, North Carolina. And we'll start with you, Jim. You've been talking to the Trump campaign. And a preview of his speech tonight trying to make his key closing case.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Erin. Donald Trump is trying to put some cracks in Hillary Clinton's firewall in this state. A Trump campaign official says, Trump will be delivering a speech focused on national (audio gap) and foreign policy issues tonight. When he gets up on the stage behind me, I'm told he'll have seven Medal of Honor recipients with him. And during his remarks to this crowd, he will be talking about his plans to build up the nation's navy and Air Force.
Those were all critical issues in this state where military issues are very, very important. But we should also point out something we've been seeing over the last 72 hours Erin and that is Donald Trump staying on message, avoiding that incendiary rhetoric that has thrown his campaign off course from time to time throughout the course of this campaign. But that doesn't mean he's holding back. He's still going after Hillary Clinton's e-mail controversy. But consider how he responded to President Obama earlier today. The President has been going right after Donald Trump but the words that Trump had to say for the President is that he should be back in the Oval Office working for the American people and not campaigning for a candidate who once questioned whether the President was even for in this country. That's the definition of restraint -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Jim Acosta. As you can see packed rallies. Trump going to be giving that speech on foreign policy and the military. We are going to be taking that to you live.
Phil Mattingly is OUTFRONT in Raleigh, North Carolina, where Clinton just miles away is going to be taking the stage shortly. And Phil, you've been talking to Clinton advisors and they tell you she has a very specific target audience tonight. PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. That is exactly right, Erin.
Laser focused really all day today on African-American voters and with good reason. As you dig through the early vote in the state of North Carolina. The crucial state of North Carolina. There's been a noticeable drop in African-American votes for Democrats that we've seen up to this point when compared to 2012. Now Clinton campaign advisors say, look, there are two very good reasons for this.
First and foremost President Obama is not at the top of the ticket. Second, there will have been a lot of changes in state law that are reducing polling places and reduce days where African-Americans can actually vote. And they say, there has been an uptick over the last couple of days. That doesn't mean that they are letting this issue go. Hillary Clinton very focused on this issue in her first rally today in North Carolina. Just a few minutes ago showed up for an unscheduled stop at North Carolina Central University.
A historically black college. Where she and Pharrell, the musician showed up unannounced to very excited students there. And will soon be on the stage here in Raleigh. Another crucial city in this entire state talking about the same issues with Pharrell again. And also trying to target another crucial part of that coalition that they are trying to turn out, Millennials. Bernie Sanders will be joining the stage with Hillary Clinton, with Pharrell. If the Clinton campaign has its way, this will be a big day for a big boost in those lagging early vote numbers amongst African-Americans -- Erin.
[19:05:32] BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much. And David Chalian is now OUTFRONT in Washington. New polls out tonight. Is some of them obviously showing welcome news for Trump. It is getting tighter and tighter at least on the forefront.
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: That is right. And some new polls first in New Hampshire. Well, that was Maine. Let's get to New Hampshire. You've see here, Erin. A new poll out today. Forty percent, 39 percent. One point edge for Donald Trump. Another poll came out in New Hampshire today, dead heat. Forty two percent to 42 percent. Certainly that is welcome news in the Trump campaign. He also got pretty good news in the state of Utah.
Take a look at this new poll. We've talked about Utah a lot. Evan McMullin, that never Trumper, that third party candidate not surging in this poll. Twenty four percent compared to Donald Trump's 37 percent. Even Hillary Clinton is ahead of McMullin. So he may be able to -- Donald Trump may be able to count on these six electoral votes in Utah and he will need them. One bit of heartburn that may be causing the Trump campaign tonight is in the state of Georgia. Look at this new poll. NBC Wall Street Journal Maris just out right now, Erin. Forty five percent to 44 percent. A one point Trump lead in a state that hasn't gone Democratic since 1992.
BURNETT: Which is pretty stunning. Now, I know that you've looked through this David, and you say there could be up to six paths to victory for Trump, right? Which of course, you know, a week ago there was maybe one. So obviously this has changed dramatically. But there are a couple that you think are perhaps most likely if he is to win. Like what?
CHALIAN: Exactly. Let's look at two of the most likely paths here. Remember, this is our battleground map. The one path we've been talking about is sort of the no room for error path. This is if we give Donald Trump all of the remaining battleground and toss-up states on the map. He still doesn't get there. He flips New Hampshire and then he steals that one Congressional district up in the top of Maine. That one extra electoral vote would get him to 270. So, that is the most narrow path and probably one of the most likely paths.
Also, there is the dream scenario that the Trump campaign always wanted to sort of run which was the rust belt strategy. Here he would not need as many of the battleground states. So let's say Donald Trump, you know, takes Utah as we said. Hangs on to Arizona. Takes Florida. Takes Ohio. He's not there yet. But now head up here. If he could get Michigan, Wisconsin, that would get him to 270. If he could get Pennsylvania or one of Michigan and Wisconsin.
This is that rust belt strategy relying on those white, working class voters to see if he could really generate turnout. That is how they always intended to alter the map. The polls right now are not with him in those states Erin but this is probably the next most likely path. It's something we will emerge on Tuesday.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much David Chalian. And of course, in some of these states, you know, you have some tons and tons of polls. Florida and North Carolina. In others like Michigan, Wisconsin, you really don't have very many polls. So, much harder to ascertain what's really happening.
OUTFRONT tonight, David Gergen who served as presidential advisor for four presidents. Trump supporter Kayleigh McEnany. Clinton supporter Van Jones, a special advisor to President Obama. Jon Avlon, editor- in-chief of "The Daily Beast." Jamie Gangel, special correspondent. And Philip Bump, Washington Post political reporter.
So, Philip, let me start with you. Five days to go. We've laid out here at CNN six possible paths. All right. They are narrow but a week ago, they were not six paths. There was maybe one path and it involved a lot of hope and prayer. OK? Now you have six. David laying out two of the more likely. You say Trump has never been closer to the presidency than he is tonight.
PHILIP BUMP, POLITICAL REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: That's right. Yes. I mean, that doesn't necessarily mean that he is going to be president. I mean, I still think it is likely that Hillary Clinton will win. The closest Donald Trump has been over the course of this campaign is a tie. He's basically out a tie right now. But I think what the first scenario that David just laid out is the most likely scenario. He has to win Florida, he has to win Ohio, he has to win either Pennsylvania or North Carolina.
If on election night he loses one of those four states it is done. Well, if he loses both Pennsylvania and North Carolina it is done. But that highlights the fact that as close as he is right now, the fact that this is not quite yet a jump ball but it's getting close if the trends continue, it is going to be a jump ball. The fact that he's this close at this point and is staying on message is about as good as you could hope.
BURNETT: John?
JOHN AVLON, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, THE DAILY BEAST: Look, Donald Trump is trying to be more disciplined than he has been in the past. We've got five days. That seems reasonable. He's coaching himself using his outside voice. You know, "Don't screw it up, Donald, stay on message." But look -- let's have a reality check about these maps we're talking about. They involve various scenarios where Donald Trump basically runs almost the table.
BURNETT: Little room for error.
[19:10:05] AVLON: There is very little to suggest. Yes. And that is the nicest way to say it. I mean, it involves everything going right for a candidate who doesn't have much organization. Doesn't seem to be hitting benchmarks that even Mitt Romney had hit. So there are scenarios, absolutely, and he's had momentum since Comey's letter. No question. But let's be real about the scenarios we're talking about because they are far fetch, possible but not by in means likely at this stage.
BURNETT: Now, you're talking about the outside voice. And Jamie, let me just -- you know, he's going to be speaking in a few moments, OK? He is going to be introducing veterans, he is then going to be giving a speech on foreign policy. He has stayed on message. And in fact, he does have a voice in his head who is telling him to do this. Here is how he put it at a rally.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Stay on point, Donald. Stay on point. No sidetracks, Donald. Nice and easy. Nice -- because I've been watching Hillary the last few days. She's totally unhinged. We don't want any of that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: I love that. I cannot watch that enough. He's -- someone was saying that to him. And he has been repeating that. I just want to go back to the polls for one second and say this. There is no question obviously that we're seeing the polls tighten. But I want to say two words, President Romney. It didn't happen. And the polls, they thought on Election Day, a source of mine was on the surrogates call on Election Day and called me and said, Mitt Romney is the next president of the United States.
And I looked at our data and I said, no he's not. They got it wrong. So we have to be careful with these polls. They are sometimes not what we think. The other thing is there's been a lot of talk about the shy Trump vote. We went back and we looked at the primaries. He did not over perform. Sometimes he underperformed. Sometimes over performed. But there wasn't some shy Trump vote that in every primary he came out and was doing so much better.
BURNETT: Which is an interesting point. David?
DAVID GERGEN, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: You may have two words on your mind tonight. President Romney. I have one and that is Brexit. You know, it was unimaginable that Brexit would pass in the United Kingdom. And then in the last few days it started breaking towards, polls started picking up and there was a much bigger movement than anybody thought. And it was the shy vote that came out. So, I think Hillary should definitely still be in the camp of being favored. But cannot discount Brexit.
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: And early voting confirms that. Look, we talk about 2012, he's winning in early voting in Florida by 18,000 right now. Romney was losing. North Carolina, he's 90,000 votes more in North Carolina than Romney was. And Romney came to one. That despite the fact that both were losing in the polls in North Carolina. He can absolutely win this. And I completely agree with the Brexit analysis. Especially when you look at the Bloomberg poll from the few weeks ago where one percent of voters told the pollster, I don't want to tell you who I am voting for and I can only imagine the number of voters who just hang up because they didn't want to talk to a pollster altogether.
BURNETT: Which is -- you also have here, the Trump campaign doing something much more aggressively in this final days than they did before. And that is, try to win over people who aren't in their base. You know, you get the endorsement of the KKK paper. And they are immediately disgusted by it. There is a robo-call. They are immediately disgusted by it. Today, Eric Trump on a radio show in Denver, the host suggested that the former KKK Leader David Duke deserved a bullet to the head.
Here is what Eric Trump said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIC TRUMP, SON OF DONALD TRUMP: If I said exactly what you said, I'd get killed for it. But I think -- I think I'll say it anyway. The guy does deserve a bullet. I mean, these aren't good people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAN JONES, HILLARY CLINTON SUPPORTER: Look, we've gotten to the point now where Donald Trump gets cookies and ice cream and applause for saying bad things about the Klan.
BURNETT: Yes.
JONES: That is a very low bar, a very low standard in the United States of America. So, he is very very good he said something bad. Here is the reality. A tie is not good for Trump. These folks are right. We don't know if these polls are correct or not. There could be a big surge out there that we do not catch, that we do not see. Part of the reason I think you have got so much low voter turnout is because Democrats were complacent until Friday.
Until Friday, Democrats were saying, hey, we' got this thing in the bag. I think there could be two surges that are below the radar screen. Both of them from hard core Democrats and from others. But if you have a tie, if those numbers are correct, we have an operation to get to two more points. And so Donald trump needs to be up by two to match our turnout.
BURNETT: And when you go with what Jamie is saying, President Romney, Kayleigh you look at what the way things were in 2012. Virtually tide. Obama won by four. So if you do that now in the poll of polls, Hillary Clinton is already up by four. You would get to eight. That would be an almost unprecedented landslide, right? I mean, if you look at it that way if past is precedent.
MCENANY: Right. But I don't think there are comparable elections really. I think we have some intangibles here. I think there is so much enthusiasm on Donald Trump's side and we saw the enthusiasm kind of flip in the poll numbers in the ABC poll after the FBI investigation. Republicans have come home as Mike Pence likes to say. Eighty seven percent are supporting Donald Trump. Eighty percent of Democrats are supporting Clinton. There are some intangibles here. A criminal FBI investigation and a lot of enthusiasm on the side of Donald Trump.
BUMP: Can I just make one quick point. The enthusiasm actually flipped, it's the post ABC poll and now the enthusiasm is back.
[19:15:23] AVLON: Yes. But look, let's talk about the demographic map for a second because it matters. It was a major theme in 2012. And the country is not getting more white. And campaigns that are predicated upon that appeal have a fundamental problem. Reaching out is a process. Jack Kemp begins it from the Republican Party, honorably a long time ago, and denouncing a KKK endorsement to Van's point is not akin to reaching out. It's actually just reflect of common sense.
And he's got a demographic math problem that cannot be ignored or the belief that there will be a mythical, you know, undiscovered white vote that will come out. It may be determinative in a couple of states and I want to say again, he has a real momentum behind them in the wake of the Comey letter but you can't totally ignore the Democratic math. It's part of American election.
BURNETT: Speaking of the Comey letter, Jamie, we have this fundraiser tonight. Huma Abedin who has not been by Hillary Clinton's side since the day this was announced when they were on the plane together. She's been MIA at this fundraiser in Washington with the -- editor-in- chief and others. We have a picture of her just arriving. The first, that is it. OK? That's as visible as she's going to possibly be. OK? But this said something about the Clinton campaign and how they are running right now and how Hillary Clinton does not have her confidant, her closest friend I supposed might be the right word for Huma much more than just -- someone who works for her by her side.
GANGEL: Right. Absolutely. And just to go back to the enthusiasm thing. There is no question that Trump has had enthusiasm. And no question as we've seen from her surrogates out there that Hillary Clinton has needed enthusiasm. But I just want to go back to Brexit because we looked into that as well. And actually our polling director, other pollsters we've talked to said it is not comparable because the way they did the polling in the UK is so different from the way we poll. Now polls can be wrong and different --
GERGEN: Polling maybe, but there wasn't a momentum that went to Brexit towards the end. It's just comparable.
GANGEL: Correct. But it was the way they did the samplings did not show what was happening there. So again polls can be wrong --
GERGEN: But the polls moved in the last three or four days on Brexit. They did move. Yes. There was differences in the techniques but it is not an irrelevant fact.
AVLON: No, no. And I think David makes a good point about the trends and the terminology. And I think the other thing that is analogous is that Ukip which had been really pushing for the Brexit vote like many movements were seen throughout Western Europe and even the United States are about a reaction to globalization frequently Ethnonationalists in response about, you know, concern about not only terrorism but immigration and other real factors. But the other factor with Brexit is, it wasn't a top of the ticket vote. It was a referendum vitally important --
BURNETT: Isn't this a referendum on change or not change in America?
AVLON: No, no, no, wait. I think in Britain if it had been about labor versus conservative you would have seen an even more representative turnout rather than the referendum votes. So, that's the factor as well.
MCENANY: Erin, it's really it's two points. I mean, when she says isn't this a referendum? Yes. This isn't a Republican/Democrat. Look, you have many Republican leaders not supporting Donald Trump. This is change versus the status quo. This is the people versus the elite. This is everyone versus Washington. It is a referendum.
GERGEN: Yes. But let's talk about the bottom-line just for a second. And that is that Hillary Clinton is still the favorite.
BURNETT: Yes.
GERGEN: But the chances of Trump winning have actually gone up.
BURNETT: Van, quick final word here.
JONES: Listen, if it is not zero percent, it is a chance. And I think that one of the big things that the Democrats have to worry about is, everybody is rocking themselves to sleep based on the fact that these poll numbers are correct. They probably are correct but they may not be.
BURNETT: All right. And all of you staying with me. Because next, Donald Trump calls his adversaries dummies, losers and pathetic. Now, Melania Trump is vowing to take on cyber bullies as first lady. And could one man -- one man block Donald Trump's path to 270? Evan McMullin is OUTFRONT tonight and Trump is taking on President
Obama today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And he is down here campaigning for crooked Hillary. Why isn't he back in the White House bringing our jobs back?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:22:56] BURNETT: Breaking news. Donald Trump is about to speak in North Carolina tonight. A policy speech. We're going to be taking part of that live as well as Hillary Clinton tonight. Both of them making some of their final closing arguments live this hour. As Trump's wife Melania made a rare appearance on the campaign trail today. Remember he promised those speeches much to her surprised last week in an interview while in her first one of them, since the GOP convention. Melania Trump tried to broaden her husband's appeal to voters who went to the crucial swing state of Pennsylvania. Did she deliver?
Miguel Marquez is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MELANIA TRUMP: I come here today to talk about my husband Donald.
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): She should be one of Donald Trump's most powerful surrogates. Melania Trump making a late entry into an election season in full frenzy.
MELANIA TRUMP: This is not an ordinary campaign. It is a movement.
MARQUEZ: Mrs. Trump spoke about her legal journey to America. Tried to assure voters about the Donald Trump she knows and spoke about issues she champion as first lady.
MELANIA TRUMP: Our culture has gotten too mean and too rough. Especially to children and teenagers. It is never okay when a 12- year-old girl or boy is mocked bullied or attacked.
MARQUEZ: The speech delivered in the all-important Philadelphia suburbs where a fourth of the state's voters live.
MELANIA TRUMP: Thank you very much. You have all been very kind to Donald and me. To our young son Baron and to our whole family.
MARQUEZ: Trump's third wife absent since her disastrous speech at the Republican National Convention where it emerged that she had plagiarized in part Michelle Obama.
TRUMP: I took her out furniture. I moved on her like a (bleep) but I couldn't get there and she was married.
MARQUEZ: Worse she felt humiliation when Donald Trump was caught in 2005 in an open mic speaking in an extremely lewd manner about women.
TRUMP: And when you are a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.
BILLY BUSH, FORMER HOST, "ACCESS HOLLYWOOD": Whatever you want.
TRUMP: Grab them by the (bleep). You can do anything.
MARQUEZ: When several women subsequently came forward claiming Trump had been sexually aggressive with them -- Melania Trump stood by her husband.
MELANIA TRUMP: They were lies and as I said before all the accusations, they should be handled in a court of law.
MARQUEZ: It is not just Melania on a Trump family nationwide full- court press. In the East Ivanka Trump in New Hampshire with rallies in two towns. Out west, Donald Trump, Jr. hitting two towns in Colorado and in the north, Eric Trump in Wisconsin with four rallies. Absent only Tiffany Trump, his daughter from his second marriage to Marla Maples. She was on the trail yesterday.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MARQUEZ: Now, Donald Trump did promise that Melania Trump would speak two or three times. This is the only speech scheduled so far. It looks like this may be a one and done -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Miguel, thank you very much. Let's bring back our panel now. And John, let me start with you. Melania, she was speaking in Chester County. A Philly suburb. Just barely went for Mitt Romney. He's got to win that. He's got to win that. He's got to win elsewhere to turn Pennsylvania. And she talked about her upbringing, she talked about working as a model, how that was very hard work. She had to deal with rejection, et cetera. And what she would do as a first lady. The big question is, who did she reach here? Did she win anybody over with this speech?
AVON: Look, classically the Philly suburbs are what to look at, classic swing district. This is Charlie Dent. This is other folks. And for her to make her first speech as clearly tactical on the campaign's part. She is an appealing figure who has an American immigrant success story and she can communicate that powerfully. Is it relatable to people in Chester, Pennsylvania. It is very difficult to relate to somebody who works hard as a model and now lives on the 60th floor of the Trump Tower to the Republican nominee.
I think what's a little more difficult is when she sincerely speaks about the American values she believes in. Kindness, respect, compassion, cooperation, charity. Those values are self-evidently discordant with much of her husband's actions and rhetoric on the campaign trail and on social media. And so when she also said she wanted to take on social media bullying as a cause, it runs directly obviously into his own behavior.
[19:27:14] BURNETT: So, let me put exactly what she said about that. She was talking about cyber-bullying and specifically cyber-bullying when it comes to kids. Here she is today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MELANIA TRUMP: It is never okay when a 12-year-old girl or boy is mocked bullied or attacked. It is terrible when that happens on the playground and it is absolutely unacceptable when it is done by someone with no name hiding on the internet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: -- put his name proudly behind anything that he does on the internet. So, he's very public about it. But Jamie, look, a lot of people are talking about what she said there specifically because of some of his tweets. Tweets like this one. Rosie O'Donnell the target. Rosie is crude, rude, obnoxious and dumb. Other than that, I like her very much. There are hundreds of tweets like this from Donald Trump.
GANGEL: As my friend Mitch said when he heard this. He said, could she please start by throwing away his twitter account closing it down. Look, he has become the poster child for bullying. Whether it's a crooked Hillary, or a little Marco. In person, online. Remember Miss Universe. I think we have the tweet up here. This was September 30th, 2016. "Did Crooked Hillary help disgusting (check out sex tape and past) Alicia M become a U.S. citizen so she could use her in the debate?" There was no sex tape by the way. This is just ridiculous. Of all the causes that a potential first lady could pick.
AVLON: Unless he's incredibly self-aware.
BURNETT: OK. Let me give you a chance, Kayleigh.
MCENANY: Yes. Look, we can all attack Donald Trump here but I think if we're going to talk about cyber bullying this is an anonymous person attacking someone. Donald Trump has punched back at Jeb Bush for people who have attacked him. I think it is very different. But I think, you know, the Clintons will be able to learn from our new First Lady comes January because consequently someone who is a victim of cyber bullying and made it her cause was Monica Lewinsky. The one who's dubbed a narcissistic loony tune, a liar. When he talks about cyber bullying, she is talking about the kind of bullying Monica Lewinsky was subject to and the Clintons can learn from her.
JONES: This is all distasteful. Let me just say a couple of things. It is very difficult to do what Melania Trump is doing. She did not marry someone who is going to run for office.
BURNETT: She doesn't want --
JONES: She's not a political wife. She is somebody who got married. She is raising a family. Her husband decides do this. She stepped up to the plate and she got hurt because the machine around her let her read a very bad speech and you've seen her claw her way back.
BURNETT: Actually, a very good speech.
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: Which is a great speech. Bad for her. It was a great speech.
BURNETT: Right. Right.
[19:30:01] JONES: So, I just want to say, listen, we can throw all of them that kind of stuffs but I just want to say, listen, if you want to look -- if you are looking for inspiration in this campaign, her ability to come back and get back up there and try again is something we can actually applaud.
GANGEL: My point is that I don't think it helps him much at this point for two reasons. One because I think people have made up their mind. But two, that kind of thing just doesn't feel very genuine when you are dealing --
BURNETT: So she made a pitch today though to the question of who she might be winning over. Obviously, women is core. But right now, he's behind by ten with women. George Bush won being behind 10 with women.
Here is specifically what she said about women in this country today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MELANIA TRUMP, WIFE OF DONALD TRUMP: The women in America incredible strong, intelligent, generous, committed, determined.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: In the ABC News/"Washington Post" tracking poll today, David, Clinton was ahead with white women with college degrees 27 points. Huge. We know about that. Trump, though, with white women without college degrees up by 28 points.
Can Melania being out there motivate those women, get them to go to the polls?
GERGEN: I think being in the counties in Philadelphia is very, very important. This election may ultimately come down to the state of Pennsylvania. You know, it really interesting Katy Perry who volunteered to go anywhere the last weekend. Where do you want her to perform? The Clinton people asked her, please sing in Philadelphia because they know how important that is.
But I want to come back to this. I'm very sympathetic with the Melania Trump. I do think Van is absolutely right. This is not easy for her to appear.
But it's about more than bullying that is at stake here. This is about the coarsening of the American politics. It is about the change in culture that we've seen.
And with all due respect it is not just her husband, but Eric Trump today talking about David Duke deserves a bullet. That kind of talk about violence which we see again and again is something to be --
BURNETT: -- target.
GERGEN: And Donald Jr. he talked about the relationship with the press and how bad that relationship had been and talked about warming up the gas chamber. This is someone who made a joke about the aurora film after the massacre out there. There is a tendency here and I'm not saying the Clintons come to this with clean hands. There's been a lot of issues raised about the Clintons.
But I agree with the proposition why would she go here to make this a central part.
JONES: But here's the deal, from a political point of view, she does something good and then we beat her up for doing something good because --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No --
JONES: Listen. At a certain point -- listen I just --
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: Holy crap. Somebody wants to stand up against bullying in this election and we're going to beat her up for it?
BUMP: I think the challenge here is that Donald Trump's main problem throughout the entire course of the campaign has been temperament. Temperament has been a thing people are concerned about. She had a great opportunity to go up and tell her story. I am an immigrant to the United States. I am a woman.
She did do that, but what we're talking about is what she said about social media and bullying, because she should have left it out. If she had left that out then we would have focused on the one thing that wasn't Donald Trump --
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: I hate to agree with Kayleigh tonight.
(CROSSTALK)
MCENANY: You work for a newspaper. You get to pick what words you cover. You could have picked to cover her story. Which by the way was 95 percent of the speech of you are cover the one statement and poke out and say it is hypocritical and poke holes in.
The media chooses what to cover. This is what you're covering.
BUMP: This is what we're talking about.
AVLON: But overall tone and tenor of this campaign, which has been coarse to David's point, which has been about bullying and elevating it to the presidential level which we haven't seen. So, when that all of a sudden becomes the pulpit you choose to climb, out of the goodness of your heart, there is an inevitable irony that needs to be -- that doesn't need to be pointed, that begs to be pointed out because it is contrary to the entire tone a tenor of the campaign.
JONES: We should also applaud her for trying to raise it too. We beat people up no matter what they do. It's wrong.
BURNETT: The other fight today, of course, was President Obama versus Donald Trump, which has been going on and on. President Obama, some say, some used the word trolling, obviously, inappropriate perhaps social media joke. But basically going everywhere Donald Trump is going, holding rallies and trying to provoke Donald Trump.
Here they are.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The most frustrating thing is, some of his support is coming from working folks. People say, well, you know, he's going to be our voice?
Are you serious? You don't see him hanging out with working people, unless they're cleaning his room, or mowing the fairways on his golf club.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He's down here campaigning for crooked Hillary. Why isn't he back in the White House bringing our jobs back? And helping our veterans?
[19:35:00] Why? Why isn't he back working? He's campaigning every day and I actually think, considering that she is under criminal investigation, I think he's actually got a conflict.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: What's interesting here is President Obama going after him. Donald Trump, yes, taking the bait a little but staying on message, right, talking about the FBI investigation and then, in a tweet talking about Obamacare, which by the way resonates, as we've shown in our reporting, with a lot more people than his base. There are a lot of people who are effected by the increases in premium of Obamacare. And Trump saying, well, you should be back working on Obamacare, not out on campaign trail.
Does that work? Is that effective?
GERGEN: What part of that?
BURNETT: Donald Trump staying on the messages and keep hammering on the FBI investigation and Obamacare?
GERGEN: Listen, I think the turn in the last few days started before the Comey letter. It did start to a large extent with the Obamacare announcement. That was a jolt. Nobody expected numbers that high. And politics started to change.
I think they need to keep the focus on both. But he's running against Hillary Clinton. That's what mobilizes his base. President Obama is much more popular than Hillary Clinton and he's much more popular than Donald Trump. So, from my point of view, he's start better off to stake with Hillary Clinton.
JONES: President Obama is as smart as they come. He's shooting. He's shooting. He's shooting. He wants to draw the fire to him. And --
BURNETT: He's succeeding.
JONES: And every time he's attacking Obama, that's great. Obama has plenty -- he can bleed out all he wants to. Obama is very, very smart about this. He drew fire. We're talking about that now, and not about another attack on Hillary.
MCENANY: I think Obama could be counterproductive for Hillary Clinton, and here is why. I understand he's personally popular. He's a very likable and gives a great speech.
JONES: And saved the economy.
MCENANY: And when he stands up there and says to the crowd, thanks Obama, thank me for Obamacare, and asked the crowd to thank him and a week later, we get these numbers that come out, and when he stands on a stage yesterday and says, hey, guys, you have to vote for me to preserve my legacy, there's a lot of voters who aren't concerned about preserving Obama's legacy. They're concerned about preserving their economic --
AVLON: But I don't thin the tack that the president somehow arrogant undercuts the fact that he's above 50 percent approval, which is unusual at this time in a presidency. President Obama is more than double what George W. Bush was at this point. And that in itself speaks to a cushion that Hillary Clinton has to work with.
What's interesting is that the president is also trying to draw a response from Donald Trump.
JONES: And succeeding.
AVLON: But Donald Trump is being much more disciplined than in the past.
BURNETT: It's not personal. He's keeping it professional.
AVLON: He's trying to keep it very professional because he knows that is his strongest suit in the closing week.
BUMP: Although he didn't have to bring President Obama up, it's worth nothing. And we were talking earlier about the African-American vote, every time Donald Trump says something about President Obama and how he should be doing work and so on and so forth, I don't imagine how that helps with the black vote.
And I would also just very quickly point out, that, you know, Donald Trump seems to got get that he has to have Congress do things. He doesn't get to do themselves. The reason the President Obama is fixing Obamacare is because of Congress, and I just think there's a disconnect there. BURNETT: Quick final word, Jamie.
GANGEL: Two things. One is there's just so much of "keep it cool Donald" that we can do in the end. And the other thing is, I think this is smart by President Obama because he is out there trying to help get out the vote. And so, if he's taking him on in addition to drawing fire, it's helping --
BURNETT: To Van's point, he can bleed as much as he can bleed. It doesn't matter. He's not running.
All right. Thanks to all.
And don't miss any of our election day coverage, "Election Day in America", we'll have every race, every result, all day coverage on Tuesday.
And OUTFRONT next, we're standing by for Hillary Clinton. She's going to be speaking live in North Carolina with Bernie Sanders. You're going to hear that. Also, Donald Trump taking the stage 30 miles away. Any moment now, we're going to be taking that as well.
And we are getting some new early voting numbers in tonight. We're going to have them for you next.
And the man who could stop Donald Trump from getting to 270. Yes, it's a man, it's not a woman. It's not her. It's him. Evan McMullin is my guest next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:42:39] BURNETT: Tonight, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump going head-to-head in North Carolina. These are live pictures, Selma and Raleigh, about 30 miles apart. Clinton and Trump both in these states. It is a very much want to win for Hillary Clinton and a must win for Hillary Trump. They are neck and neck in the poll there.
And just in, new early voting numbers from North Carolina. Mark Preston is OUTFRONT at the decision desk at tonight's big number.
Because the numbers are crucial from North Carolina, what do you see, Mark?
MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: They are no doubt, Erin. Let's look at the overall number right now, five days before Election Day and nearly 31 million people in 38 states across the nation have cast their ballot so far. But as you said, all eyes are on North Carolina as we speak right now. A little more than 2 million people have cast ballots in that state.
Let's see how the political parties are doing right now. If you look at this right now, Democrats are a bit of a sizable lead at this point. It's about 243,000 votes that have been sent back in for Democrats. However, it's not the greatest news because if you look at 2012, you compare those numbers, it's actually been a decrease, because back then at the same time, 307,000 votes Democrats had in the lead over Republicans.
So why is that? Let's look at the issue of race in this state right now and see what those numbers are showing us at this point.
Right now, the African-American electorate, they equal about 23 percent of those returned ballots at this point. Hispanic voters about 1.8.
You go back to 2012, though, look at that. That's a decrease right now of about 5.3 percent of African-American participation from 2012 to 2016 in the early vote. That's why we saw Barack Obama lobbying so hard yesterday in North Carolina to try to get the vote out. He'll also return again Friday and as you noted, Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton both in the state tonight, Erin.
BURNETT: And obviously, those early votes and perhaps a warning sign for her there. I'm about to speak with the independent presidential candidate Evan McMullin and he could become, McMullin, the first third party candidate to win a state since 1968. Obviously, the whole thing could hinge upon Utah.
How is he doing there right now?
PRESTON: Well, we have a new poll from Monmouth University just a few hours old right now. Let's look if we can, Erin. If we see this right now, Donald Trump is in the lead. He has a six point lead right now over Hillary Clinton.
[19:45:03] Evan McMullin comes this third 24 percent.
What's troubling for Evan McMullin is that Trump is beating him with self-identified Republicans by 22 points. But he could become a spoiler. The fact that Hillary Clinton is within six points right now, six points for Donald Trump in that state is significant. And if Hillary were to win Utah, that would be troublesome to Donald Trump as he tries to reach that goal of 270 votes.
So, while Evan McMullin is not in the driver seat at this point, he's in third place, he still is getting significant support right now out in Utah and that could be help Hillary Clinton win Utah. Not saying it is going to happen but it could happen, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Mark Preston, thank you very much.
OUTFRONT now, independent presidential candidate, former CIA operative, Evan McMullin.
Thank you so much for being with me, Evan.
I mean, I know you're banking on a win in Utah. Some polls show you doing even better there. Sean Spicer, the RNC communications director, though, was on the show a couple days ago and he told me Trump is going win the state hands down. What is he missing?
EVAN MCMULLIN, INDEPENDENT PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I think he's missing that people in Utah are just not excited about Donald Trump at all. That is why he's struggling to win the state that Mitt Romney won and other Republicans have won by large, large margins. That's the bigger story here.
We saw the Monmouth poll come out today. But, you know, it had a poll come out two weeks ago that had me at 20 percent when everyone else had us at 29 to 30 percent. In this addition of their poll, they have us up 4 percent from two weeks ago.
So, the methodology must be different there. The methodology they are using is different interest the ones other pollsters are using but either way, it show us gaining traction.
But look, I would say this, I would say that what's happening now is people in Utah are seeing the race tighten. They are also seeing additional information about Hillary Clinton's corruption. That makes them very nervous. People in Utah are very uncomfortable with Donald Trump and opposed to him. But they also don't like Hillary Clinton due to her corruption and big government policies.
So, our job, my job in this campaign is to convince Utahans that they should come on board with our strategy, which is in this case that the election is so tight if they vote with us, if they stay with us and we can win a state or two --
BURNETT: Right.
MCMULLIN: -- we can block both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. But that is what's happening here. People are very nervous about the additional information they see coming out about Hillary Clinton.
BURNETT: And you have, obviously, you know, if certain method gains play out, scenarios, you could get them to 269, 269, in the case that that's your play. But, look, it's very possible, Evan, that thanks to you siphoning off traditionally Republican voters, because that's what we've seen happening in the state, Utah does Democratic the first time since 1964. In that case, it could be Utah that holds Trump back in the White House.
MCMULLIN: I don't see it.
BURNETT: I know you don't see it, but if that happen, some people say, look, you are sitting here, Evan. You are the guy Republicans say vote for anyone other than Trump is a vote for Hillary Clinton. What do you say to those people, they're saying, you could be helping her win?
MCMULLIN: Erin, I would just say this. This is one poll. This has been an outlier poll for a while. The point is all the other polls show a neck and neck race between Donald Trump and me. Or they say that I'm in first place or Donald Trump is in first place or that it is a neck d neck race.
So, Donald Trump is going to win Utah or I'm going to win Utah. It is not going to be Hillary Clinton. She has a ceiling there. She's not going to be able to do it. It is going to be Donald Trump or it is going to be me. And so, our pitch is to the Utah people, what do we want Utah to stand
for in this race? Do we want Utah to stand for the foundational principles like equality and liberty that have made the country great or are we going to go with Donald Trump who's launched and carried out a divisive, bigoted sexist campaign? That is not what Utah stands for. That is not what this country stands for.
BURNETT: You called ate the bigoted campaign. The Trump campaign denounced a robocall from a white nationalist in your state. That call attacked your mother's sexuality, it accused you of being a closeted homosexual. It was nasty.
You said it reflected that bigots, those racists and bigots supporting Trump.
Sean Spicer told me you were way off base. He said the call was disgusting and reprehensible, but then he said for you to turn it back on them, on the Trump campaign, is almost as reprehensible. Those are his words. What do you say to that?
MCMULLIN: Well, the man who did the robocall was a delegate for Trump. So, how my condemning a bigoted call is reprehensible as the call itself from a delegate of theirs, I just don't understand.
You know, Erin, today we received news that some of Trump's supporters who are out there raising money and putting up billboards for Trump. These again are white nationalists, white supremacists, are now calling for a Mormon genocide. I mean, that's what we're up against here.
This is, you know, consistent with what Donald Trump has done in our country. This is consistent with this movement that he's created, that attacks people base on their gender, their race, their religion.
[19:50:05] This is what we're standing up to. We believe this country can be unified. We believe that we can be a diverse country and still be unified as Americans. That's what we're fighting for.
BURNETT: All right. Evan McMullin, thank you very much. Appreciate your time.
And next, we are standing by Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump both going to be speaking live any moment. They have been a little delayed but as you can see, these are now getting under way. We're going there live and, of course, it could all come down to Florida, again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JOHN LEWIS (D), GEORGIA: Go out and vote like we never voted before. Can we do it? Let's do it?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Breaking news: Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton about to speak in North Carolina. Live pictures of dueling rallies, they really are, same state, only 30 miles apart. A must win state.
The candidates also barnstorming Florida in the final days of the race. They have to win there. New polls show a dead heat in that state.
Boris Sanchez is OUTFRONT with our special series "On the Battlegrounds".
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If the road to the White House goes through Florida, then that road is this one, Interstate 4. The 140 mile coast to coast highway across central Florida has become the state's center of political gravity. It's Florida's I-4 corridor and it starts along the East Coast here in Daytona Beach where a rise in the number of registered Republicans has turned the once reliably blue Volusia County purple.
To tilt it back in her column, the Clinton campaign is targeting African-Americans.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We voting baby.
REP. JOHN LEWIS (D), GEORGIA: Go out and vote like we never voted before. Can we do it? Let's do it?
I feel good about seeing all the younger people here who remind me of another period during the day of the civil rights movement. They know the lessons, they know the stories. They are going to turn out and vote.
SANCHEZ: Further west on I-4, there are traditionally redder areas like Sanford and Seminole Counties.
[19:55:04] Donald Trump and his surrogates have made more than a dozen appearances along the I-4 corridor since the convention. They're hoping to surpass Mitt Romney's already solid win here in 2012 by riling up a base frustrated with Washington.
ANNE HAYLER, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: This is a movement, this is a incredibly movement of the people of the United States who want integrity restored to the government.
SANCHEZ: Our next stop is Orlando. And it is the biggest city on the I-4 corridor.
(on camera): It's also one that in recent years has changed dramatically.
SUSAN MACMANUS, POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSOR, UNIV. OF S. FLORIDA: The message in Orlando is us. Especially Latino voters and especially the Puerto Ricans.
SANCHEZ (voice-over): With a large influx of Democratic-leaning Puerto Rican voters moving to Orlando in recent years the Clinton campaign is vying for their vote. I-4's evolving political landscape continues west of Orlando.
(on camera): While there have been major demographic changes to Tampa, these changes aren't among ethnic lines. They are actually among generational ones.
(voice-over): While the west coast of Florida was once a haven for retirees, now about half of the registered voters here are younger than 50.
IDA WRIGHT, VOLUSIA COUNTY SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER: With so many colleges and universities that right side on the corridor that is going on the game-changer for either candidate.
SANCHEZ: With a race so close as we approach the finish line, how the candidates do on I-4 could define the election.
MACMANUS: It is the most competitive part of Florida. It is the swing part of the swing state, highway to heaven or hell depending on whether you win or not.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: And, Erin, on Tuesday night all eyes will be here in Hillsboro County. It is a county that's correctly predicted the winner of the presidential race in 19 of the past 20 elections -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Boris.
And OUTFRONT next, dueling rallies, Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump as we said, both getting ready to speak. Donald Trump's rally getting under way right now as he takes the stage. We're going to be going there live and Hillary Clinton just as soon as she gets there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: And thank you so much for joining us. Countdown continues to election day.
"AC360" starts now.
