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Erin Burnett Outfront
Trump Brags Admin Has "Found The Magic Wand" For Manufacturing; Trump Slams G.M. For Cuts, Trump Had Vowed To Protect Workers; Interview with Rep. Tim Ryan (D), Ohio; Mexico Asks U.S. To Probe Tear Gas Use As Trump Defends It; Mueller's Team: Manafort Lied After Guilty Plea, Breached Deal; Interview with Rep. Bob Goodlatte (R), Virginia; Trump Holds Rallies for Embattled GOP Senator in Mississippi. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired November 26, 2018 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We'll continue tomorrow. We'll take a closer look at the rise of hate in Europe. "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next, President Trump bragging about finding the magic wand to create manufacturing jobs. On the same day General Motors slashes more than 14,000 jobs.
Plus, the President said tear gas wasn't used on children at the southern border. The pictures though seem to tell a very different story. And breaking news just in to CNN, Special Counsel out with a late court filing on Paul Manafort, potentially significant details here, we're going through it out this moment. Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening, I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight magic wand. President Trump moments ago bragging that he has found the magic wand for American manufacturing. On the same day General Motors, the nation's largest carmaker announced its cutting more than 14,000 jobs. Here's Donald Trump tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The previous administration, they said manufacturing's never coming back, it's gone. You need a magic wand. Well, we found the magic wand, and that's actually -- that's actually going to be increasing by a lot in the next short while, because we have a lot of companies moving in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: He didn't say which ones, but here's what we know, that whole magic wand thing was just eight hours after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: This news just in to CNN, General Motors the iconic American automaker is cutting staff and closing plants. CNN has just learned that General Motors will cut 15 percent of its salaried staff.
Breaking news on the future of General Motors right now. We're hearing they are slashing jobs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Slashing jobs. Well, you know what, at first, before this whole magic wand business, the President was angry. Mary Barra, the CEO of General Motors was at the White House today and the President slammed her personally.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Well we don't like it. I believe they'll be opening up something else, and -- I was very tough. I spoke with her when I heard they were closing, and I said, you know, this country's done a lot for General Motors. Hopefully she's going to come back and she's going to put something. But I told her, I'm not happy about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Making it personal. One thing is for sure, it is political for the President, because it shows that President Trump's promise on car jobs, at least as of this evening appears false. Here he is just last year, while visiting a community near the General Motors plant that is shutting down in Ohio.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I was looking at some of those big once incredible job producing factories. And my wife Melania said, what happened? I said those jobs have left Ohio. They're all coming back. They're all coming back. They're coming back. Coming back.
Don't move, don't sell your house.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Don't sell your house. Those are painful words to hear played back today. But they're part of a long litany of promises that Trump made to car country voters, promises that did net him votes. Trump won Trumbull County, where the Ohio plant is closing by six points that is a nearly 30 points swing from 2012. Obama won it by a mass of 22 points, think about that.
A nearly 30 point swing based on an explicit promise of car jobs to voters there and in other states where General Motors tonight is now closing plants amid mass layoffs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You people know something about the car industry because I'm bringing it back to the state of Michigan, right?
We have many car companies coming back in, they're going to Michigan, they're Ohio, they're going to states where they want to be.
When you look at what's happening with Ford and with General Motors in Michigan and Ohio, you look at the tremendous number of jobs that are being announced in so many different fields.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Well here's what we're looking at tonight, 14,000 layoffs in those states from General Motors. Reality can be tough to take for this President, we all know that. And so tonight he's saying that the layoffs have nothing to do with him or his tariffs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: No, not tariffs, that has nothing to do with tariffs. The car was not selling.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OK, cars were not selling. True, there's another problem, though. Today, General Motors press release said trade costs are among the, quote, head winds General Motors is facing, echoing a dire warning from the car company this summer that if the President had read it, foreshadowed today's bad news. Here's General Motors this summer, quote, "Increased import tariffs could lead to a smaller G.M., it reduced presence at home and abroad for this iconic American company and risk less, not more American jobs".
Well, that was -- it looked like a foreshadowing of where we are, and that is tonight. Mass layoffs announced and a president who at the same time hours from that is bragging that he has a magic wand that has fixed American manufacturing.
[19:05:02] Pamela Brown is OUTFRONT live outside the White House tonight. And Pamela, the President is in Mississippi tonight, that's where he's bragging about his so-called magic wand.
PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Erin. The President responding to this announcement from G.M. that it will be slashing jobs and closing plants by first criticizing G.M. CEO Mary Barra, and then touting just moments ago at this rally in Mississippi that the trade deals he's been making will lead to more companies move into the U.S. and an increase in U.S. products. But the President didn't specify which companies he's talking about, he only said that he has found the magic wand when it comes to manufacturing.
But what we do know, Erin, is that this move by G.M. goes against one of the President's key promises. He has made the revival of the manufacturing industry, a focus of his, a priority in his administration, and he has a track record of publicly criticizing companies that either shut down or move abroad as he is now doing with G.M.
We know he talked to Mary Barra, the CEO, last night before the announcement. She was at the White House today meeting with Larry Kudlow, in what was a preplanned meeting according to the White House. He claims he was tough with her, unclear what he meant by that but he did make reference to the financial bailout of G.M. many years ago and he also said that she needs to move something else to Ohio and find a car that sells better, Erin. BURNETT: All right. Pamela Brown, thank you very much. And, of course, the President by the way up in the ante on his tariff talk telling the Wall Street Journal he wants more of him including a 10 percent tariff on iPhone. So that's a price increase of 10 percent on the iPhone.
OUTFRONT now, Democratic Congressman Tim Ryan represents the Ohio district where General Motors plant is scheduled to close amid these mass layoffs announced today.
Congressman, I appreciate your time. So, you know, this all happened this morning. And now within the past hour, the President's come out and said he's got the magic wand when it comes to American root manufacturing, your reaction?
REP. TIM RYAN (D), OHIO: Well, it's insulting to the almost 2,000 workers in our factory locally, and almost 15,000 workers in Michigan and Ohio, not to mention the four to five time spin-off so you're talking 50,000, 60,000 people, and the President says everything is fine, he's got the magic wand. It's insulting, Erin, and I tell you what, he did not lift one finger to -- Sherrod Brown called him, we sent the President's letter -- President letters to try to get him engaged in helping us figure out what the future of this facility is.
He was sworn into office. Weeks later, we lost the third shift at our plant. He got rid of the fuel efficiency standards. I warned him not to do that, it would hurt the small car industry. Two weeks later, we lost the second shift, and now the plant is idle.
BURNETT: So -- And obviously, you know, this is a significant plan as are the others, right? We're talking about as many as 15,000 jobs that are going to be lost here. I want to play, Congressman, again some of what the President said about this specifically. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I was very tough. I spoke with her when I heard they were closing. And I said, you know, this country has done a lot for General Motors, you better get back in there soon, that's Ohio. And you better get back in there soon. So, we have a lot of pressure on them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: All right that she or the her is Mary Barra. But, you know, he's saying look, I threatened. He's saying, I'm not happy with her. You better get back in there soon. You're a Democrat, but do you support the way he's talking and what he's saying now?
RYAN: Well let me just be clear and I'm not trying to be political, that's an absolute joke. This President did not lift one finger. He's got executive time all day, he spends time on Twitter, he does nothing but try to divide the country and start culture wars and behind the scenes the American worker is getting screwed by a company that got one of his huge tax cuts. I mean, if you look at what happened to General Motors, they got the
auto rescue package quite frankly that Mitt Romney was saying let Detroit go bankrupt and Democrats stuck their neck out. They just got a huge tax cut to the tune of $150 million this year and then they turn around, cut 15,000 jobs and the stock price goes up 6 percent, so all the executives are making a lot of money.
I don't know how much Mary Barra made off of that today. But all the wealthy people made money and all the people in Youngstown and in Detroit got pink slips. That's a broken economy. And the President has made that worse, not better, he's not lifted a finger for General Motors, try to get a vision together for communities like ours.
BURNETT: So, you know, I just saying they are saying they're laying off 25 percent of their executives as well. I mean, so just to make the point within G.M., there's going to be pain amongst all the ranks that we have seen from the announcement today.
But when the President says that he is now going to take them on, I guess the question is, do you believe any of it -- I mean just, you know -- here's what he said even last year. To your point, he's been saying he's going to bring these jobs back. Today he said he's mad at Mary Barra. Here's among the promises he's made to your state.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[19:10:08] TRUMP: Those jobs have left Ohio. They're all coming back. They're all coming back. Coming back.
Don't move, don't sell your house.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Did he -- was he just naive or in your view, that was all just politics, he didn't care?
RYAN: You know, I mean, the President daily, hourly, you know, minute by minute makes political statements. He makes statements that are going to get him in the news, he tells people what they want to hear. And here's the reality that's happening today, Erin, is that the side show that we have with the Trump administration is facing a reality check today in Detroit and Youngstown, Ohio.
The hard -- being a president is hard work. It takes a vision, it takes a plan, it takes getting the government to do public/private partnerships to work closely with business in order to grow the economy. It's not about sending out tweets. It's not about giving speeches at rallies.
It's about rolling up your sleeves and doing the hard work and the President has no industrial policy for the United States, he has no manufacturing policy for the United States, he's a one-trick pony where he said, if you cut taxes for the wealthy, that investment will trickle down the places like Lordstown, Ohio.
And you know what, we've been trying that 30 years. And the plant used to be 16,000 workers, now it's down to zero. The supply chain is wiped out. We've got to get away from this supply side economics, we've got to start reinvesting back into the workers and the white collar workers as well, and the President doesn't have a plan to do that.
BURNETT: All right. Well Congressman Ryan, I appreciate your time tonight, thank you very much.
And next, breaking news, Mexico tonight demanding the United States investigate the use of tear gas on migrants at the U.S. border. This after the President made this baffling claim.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it OK to use tear gas on children?
TRUMP: We didn't. We don't use it on children.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: It doesn't seem to be what the pictures show. Plus, Republicans and James Comey squaring off over demands he testify. The Chairman of the Judiciary Committee Bob Goodlatte is OUTFRONT.
Plus breaking news this hour, dramatic development. The Special Counsel is just out here as I'm speaking with a new court filing, accusing Paul Manafort of lying, and there's specifics. What could this mean for the President and his former chairman?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:16:19] BURNETT: Breaking news, Mexico tonight demanding the United States investigate the use of tear gas on migrants who rushed to the U.S. border. This is President Trump is denying that children were on the receiving end.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it OK to use tear gas on children?
TRUMP: We didn't. We don't use it on children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Now, according to Reuters, these pictures, they took tell a different story. You see children crying. According to Reuters, they're running away from tear gas thrown by U.S. border patrol agents. Miguel Marquez is OUTFRONT with more from the Mexican side of the southern boarder.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Desperation turns to anger as migrants overwhelmed Mexican police and storm the U.S. border. Hundreds of migrants part of the caravan of Central Americans who have been moving North for weeks that first protested then grew more aggressive. The President saying the situation called for the use of force.
TRUMP: They had to use because they were being rushed by some very tough people, and they used tear gas. And here's the bottom line, nobody's coming into our country unless they come in legally.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): The U.S. border patrol says four of its officers outfitted in riot gear were hit with rocks but were not injured. They deployed tear gas and shot tether balls to disburse the crowd.
Video captured the migrants as they ran toward the border then fanned out along it looking for any weak point. Caught up in the melee (ph), women and children. One photo shows a mother dragging her children away from the conflict and smoke, one of her kids in diapers.
In a tweet, the President called many of the migrants stone called criminals and used the episode to push his agenda writing, "We close the border permanently if maybe Congress, fund the wall.
At issue, whether thousands of migrant who caravan from Central America seeking asylum will ever be allowed the opportunity to have it. The number of asylum applications at legal border crossings has diminished to a trickle. The protest and border confrontation won't help their cause.
RODNEY SCOTT, CHIEF PATROL AGENT, SAN DIEGO SECTOR BORDER PATROL: If they were truly asylum seekers, they would have just walked up with their hands up and surrender and that did not take place.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): Dozens were arrested on the U.S. and Mexican sides of the border. U.S. official say those arrested will be allowed to make an asylum plea and be prosecuted for any crimes they may have committed. Mexican authorities say, law breaking migrants will be deported to their home countries.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MARQUEZ: Now on both sides of the border, there is great tension on the U.S., more border patrol agents are being brought in from other states to here in California, and here on the Mexican side of the border. Very heavily armed police, military, and national police federalist throughout the area around the border to try to prevent immigrants from coming up into this area, and prevent what happened on Sunday from happening again, Erin.
BURNETT: Miguel, thank you.
And I want to go now to Brandon Judd, President of the National Border Control Council and Juliette Kayyem, former Department of Homeland Security Assistant Secretary under President Obama and a National Security Analyst for us. Juliette, look, the President is saying, OK, tear gas fine, but we didn't use it on children. Obviously, Reuters has these pictures that they say clearly show that it was.
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes, there were children in the caravan, we know that. The President has admitted it and he admitted that tear was used. So you just put two and two together and you get four, whatever.
[19:20:01] The President says and certainly we should welcome a review. I would hope CBP and DHS welcome a review of what happened. No one wants this to happen to CBP.
I do not believe that CBP agents woke up that morning wanting to use tear gas on women and children. But it was a crisis created by rhetoric and policy from this administration that put CBP in a position that they didn't need to be in. And I think it's worthy of a review that Mexico is asking.
BURNETT: Brandon, is there any defense for using tear gas on children?
BRANDON JUDD, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL BORDER PATROL COUNCIL: OK. First and foremost, the tear gas was not deployed at the children. The tear gas was deployed to disburse the crowd. The children were being used as human shields so that these grown males could stand behind them and throw rocks. Erin, I have worked groups in the desert.
BURNETT: Is this that -- OK. OK, Brandon, can I just ask you a question, even if that's true, and I'm not saying it is but even if that's true and those women and children were being used in that way, would it still be OK to tear gas them?
JUDD: OK. Under the Obama policy, absolutely. This policy that we used was an Obama written policy and it was used in 2013 at the same port of entry. Unfortunately, this wasn't even a port of entry where the tear gas was being used. This was between the ports of entry where people were trying to enter the country illegally instead of trying to do it legally.
And so, we look at the coverage and we say, this is completely and totally disparate coverage. Why wasn't this covered in 2013? But all of a sudden, it's an issue now when we're acting under the Obama policies.
BURNETT: Juliette?
KAYYEM: So, can I say -- I've been hearing this talking point and so, you know, more specifics would be helpful from the union that you represent about what you're talking about. I don't want to get into the details. What we do know, and what you and the union wanted was more aggressive use of force at the border. You got it. You also got military support, which you asked for. You got it.
So, then to be surprised --
JUDD: That's completely -- that's absolutely not true.
KAYYEM: Excuse me, sir. You didn't ask for more use of force --
JUDD: We absolutely didn't ask for more use of force. When Commissioner Kerlikowske appointed by President Obama, when Commissioner Kerlikowske came to me and said, Brandon, we really need to implement this use of force policy, will you do it without negotiating it and negotiate it later on down the road? I said, absolutely, we have to take a look at our use of force policies.
The National Border Patrol Council and border patrol agents have never called for more use of force at the border. And to say that is completely and totally not true. Let's look --
KAYYEM: So then that's good to know. That's actually helpful to know.
JUDD: Let's look at who put these children --
KAYYEM: Mr. Judd, let me finish the point about use of force. That's actually really helpful to know that the head of the union is not asking for more use of force at the border. At the same time that the President is saying that you asked for military support at the border.
So if the President is wrong, I am glad to hear it because I am not supportive of military use at the border but going back to what happened yesterday. This is consistent with what the President has done to CBP, a professional group of law enforcement individual starting with the Muslim ban, surprising them at the border.
So they don't know what's going on to the family separation in which CBP agents by their own account were being treated -- were having to act as baby-sitters because there was no policy in place to now, yesterday, where a crisis -- and I put it in quotes, led to this use of tear gas.
This is not how a president ought to treat a professional law enforcement agency that has a serious and a law abiding national security mandate, which is to protect all of us which we're grateful for, at the borders.
BURNETT: Brandon, what's your response to that. I mean, are you hoping (ph) put in a position --
JUDD: No.
BURNETT: -- while you're doing something that you find morally and ethically wrong which I would assume is how you feel about tear gassing children whomever they are attached to.
JUDD: Erin, absolutely not. I would ask where was your guest during the Obama administration when we were doing the exact same thing? Where was your guest during the Obama administration --
BURNETT: So, you tear gassed children then also.
JUDD: In 2013, look at the history, OK. Again, what we're doing if we are being --
KAYYEM: So there's no --
JUDD: -- we are being put in a situation, where the rhetoric of military being on the border means more use of force. That's not true. The military is on the border to build our barriers. The military is on the border to be our eyes, to see what's going on, to direct our agents. The military is not on the border to use force, but to say, the military on the border is to be use force. That's completely not true, and that's rhetoric, and that's dangerous.
KAYYEM: That's a red herring. Actually, the truth is, and we know from the President's own statement. So, you -- it's either the President is right or you're right.
So, I'm going to go with the President, and if there's a disconnect maybe you can resolve it with him but the President has said that the military was being deployed too, not just supporting and build the walls or the fences or whatever (INAUDIBLE) but also to protect CBP agents.
[19:25:10] So, Mr. Judd is also denying --
JUDD: Absolutely.
KAYYEM: -- that they asked for additional use of force mandate. Now, this 2013 thing in the Obama administration, you know, I'd love for -- if the union could -- if you guys could release something about what in fact that was. But I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt.
JUDD: Look at the Union-Tribune. The San Diego Union-Tribune --
KAYYEM: I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt. Let me finish my point. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say this, why every time that you have to defend an action by President Trump, whether it's family separation, whether it's this, you invoke either President Bush or President Obama regardless of the fact that you in fact have asked for these greater powers for these changes and policy.
Are you trying to tell the American public that there's been change in policy between Donald Trump and Barack Obama because Donald Trump does not believe that? So if you're inconsistent with the President, it would be great to get some clarity between the union and the President.
JUDD: There's no inconsistencies and you're saying that I've invoked Obama. Can you please tell me when I've done that, minus this interview?
BURNETT: Well, you did. You say that --
JUDD: Minus this interview.
(CROSSTALK)
JUDD: Again, this is the rhetoric -- this is the rhetoric that is dangerous. If the public wants to make an opinion, I agreed with that --
BURNETT: But Brandon, hold on. Can I just move on one specific point? I know we're talking about a lot of thing but on one specific point, when I asked about tear gas, you said Obama did it too.
JUDD: Yes.
BURNETT: And you guys weren't upset about it then. So why are you upset about it now? So you did invoke Obama specifically to defend the use of tear gas.
JUDD: I did.
BURNETT: And so -- and I'm just being very careful.
JUDD: I did. But your guest said that every time something happens I invoke Obama. That's not true. Again, look at what the guest said. I invoked Obama during this interview because this is exactly what happened. This was an Obama era policy that we were following.
What we did was written by President Obama. Your guest said that I want more use of force at the border. That's absolutely not true.
And again, I want the American public to have all of the facts to be able to make an informed decision based upon the facts, not rhetoric. Let's look at the facts. The facts are, the policy written under President Obama allowed us to --
BURNETT: Use tear gas?
JUDD: -- use tear gas to disperse --
BURNETT: OK.
JUDD: -- a crowd that was very dangerous. And let's be clear --
BURNETT: But let's be fair on something. The crowds are bigger and they're rushing now and why are they doing that? Because they're not able to get asylum when they come in --
(CROSSTALK)
JUDD: We can only process --
BURNETT: Because they're not feeling welcome on the borders. I'm not commenting on what kinds of people they are or aren't. I'm simply saying, you are in a position now where you're much more likely to use tear gas than you were before, do the policy of President Trump. That is not a point of debate, Brandon.
JUDD: No, it's not do the policies. It's because we can only process --
KAYYEM: I think it's important -- Mr. Judd, I think it's important that you not call --
JUDD: OK. So are we going to talk about facts?
KAYYEM: Let me just finish my points.
JUDD: So we're not going to talk about facts. KAYYEM: Anytime, anyone disagrees, you say it's rhetoric or not facts. All we're saying is that President Trump has made it clear that the policies have changed at the border. Anyone -- anytime, anyone criticizes that, then you just invoke, right, that the policy has not changed. Regardless, no CBP agents should be put in the position in which tear gas has to be deployed whether rightfully or wrongfully against women and children. And we should welcome and review.
By the way, my name is Juliette Kayyem. So you could call me Juliette, that's fine. But nonetheless, what's more important here is not that this is rhetoric that I'm saying is that the President of the United States has changed the policies. There's no question about that and either you disagree with him and say that's just a bunch of rhetoric or this is a bunch of baloney or you agree with him that the policies have changed. And we're seeing whether it's the Muslim -- whether it's --
JUDD: But Erin, let's address your point.
KAYYEM: -- that the policy has changed.
JUDD: Let's address your point. Erin, the reason why we're being put in the situation is because we're seeing caravans that are larger and larger and larger. We can only process so many people at the ports of entry legally and because these individuals do not want to wait for a legal process then they put us in these situations where we have to take them into custody. They crossed the border illegally. Again, the very first --
BURNETT: Brandon, I understand your point but can I ask you one important question?
JUDD: Certainly.
BURNETT: Do you believe that President Trump's policy or rhetoric, to Juliette's point, there's a big a difference between the two, whichever you like to call it Brandon, has resulted and people thinking they will not be process and therefore, why bother I'm going to go ahead and rush illegally?
JUDD: No, in fact --
BURNETT: Do you think that there's any of that happened?
JUDD: No, in fact, the President today --
BURNETT: The same number of people coming in illegally and now you just have all these extra thousands of people.
JUDD: Erin, the President said today that as long as they do it legally and the legal process if to present yourself at a port of entry and ask for asylum. And as long as they do that, he is supporting the legal process. He is not supporting the illegal process, and nobody should support the illegal process, otherwise we get the chaos that we just saw. BURNETT: OK. Thank you both very much.
I will simply say, I want to end where we began. The president of the United States threatened to shut down the border completely, which would, of course, to somebody coming in in desperate states, far from indicate that things are business as usual. I'm just simply making that obvious point.
Thank you both very much.
JUDD: Thank you, Erin.
BURNETT: And next, breaking news, a major development from the special counsel's office. Paul Manafort -- now, we're having details from the special counsel that they're accusing him of lying even after he pleaded guilty. What does this mean for the former campaign chairman for the president of the United States and the president?
Plus, Republican Congressman Mia Love taking on the president after he mocked her for losing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIA LOVE (R), UTAH: What did he have to gain by saying such a thing about a fellow -- at fellow Republican?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Breaking news, a major development in the Russia investigation. A new court filing by the special counsel Bob Mueller claiming Paul Manafort lied to Mueller's team and the FBI repeatedly -- OK, now, here's the crucial point -- after he pleaded guilty and agreed to cooperate with prosecutors.
So, after he reached this whole deal, he lies to Bob Mueller's team, he lies to the FBI.
CNN justice correspondent Jessica Schneider is OUTFRONT.
Jessica, I mean, this is hugely significant. What did Manafort allegedly lie about? And if this happened, what does it mean for this plea that he -- agreement that he entered into.
JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Erin. The plea talks at this point, they're over. And the lingering question here after this filing is what exactly did Paul Manafort lie about. The special counsel will only say that he lied on a variety of matters, in this filing, they say that they're going to expand upon exactly what he lied about in a future court filing.
So, remember that Paul Manafort, he's been working with Mueller's attorney since he pleaded to those two charges in Washington, D.C. back in September. But now, the special counsel calling off the cooperation, saying in that filing, just moments ago, that Paul Manafort lied to the FBI, lied to the special counsel's office on a variety of subjects, and really now, they're finished. No more talks, no more opportunity to cooperate. And they're ready for that federal judge to sentence Paul Manafort.
You know, again, the filing doesn't really specify, how he lied, what he lied about. But we know that Manafort has been meeting with Mueller's team for two months now. That was all in exchange for the possibility that they would ask for a lesser sentence on the two charges that he pleaded guilty to. One of them was conspiracy against the U.S. Another conspiracy to obstruct justice because of his attempts to tamper with witnesses.
[19:35:04] And another interesting thing here, Erin, on top of those charges, of course, Manafort was found guilty by that Virginia jury on eight counts back in August. In that case, he faced up to 20 years on that conviction, and that sentencing was also on hold in that case.
But now, everything is off the table here, Mueller's team, they're calling off those future talks. They're saying to the judge, let's get right to sentencing, Manafort meanwhile, his team, Erin, saying that he was truthful, he didn't lie. But, of course, now, it's up to the judge to see how this moves forward.
BURNETT: All right. Jessica, thank you very much.
And as Jessica is talking about, you're looking here at decades behind bars, that is unless, possibly, if this is how this goes, unless, you get a presidential pardon.
I want to go now to the current chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, Republican Congressman Bob Goodlatte of Virginia.
And, Congressman, I appreciate your coming on the show.
First, your reaction to this breaking news. Prosecutors say Paul Manafort lied to the FBI and the special counsel after he pleaded guilty, after he agreed to cooperate, spent two months ostensibly doing so. They're saying a variety of lies and a variety of matters.
Your reaction?
REP. BOB GOODLATTE (R-VA), CHAIRMAN, HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Well, any time you lie to the FBI it's a serious matter. Obviously, we have a dispute here about whether or not he did that, and we don't even know what the basis of the claim on the part of the special counsel is in terms of what it is that he may have lied about. But that's why we have courts and that's why that matter will proceed.
BURNETT: So, you now would have a position if this does -- if this does go ahead, right, where Manafort's only way out of a lifetime behind bars because of his age and these counts would be a presidential pardon. Should that still be on the table for the president?
GOODLATTE: Well, certainly, presidents always have the pardon power, but they need to use it advisedly and we don't have the facts here to know whether or not it would be appropriate. So, at this point in time, I think we need to let that process proceed. Obviously, the special counsel is attempting to get Mr. Manafort's cooperation, they don't believe they have gotten it. So they're back to court it sounds like.
BURNETT: And just a quick follow to that, though, when you say advisedly, obviously, you're withholding full judgment. But from what we know what he's done up to this point, would you think it merited a pardon, for getting the fact that they now say he lied to the FBI and federal prosecutors?
GOODLATTE: Well, again, I think you have to wait and see what the final outcome is, what kind of sentence is imposed upon him. There's still a long way to go in that matter, but it's a serious crime he's accused of and he's been convicted.
So, as I say, presidents should use that pardon power advisedly, but they should certainly use it when they have all the facts and the facts justify mercy. I'm not in a position to pass judgment --
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: I understand. You're emphasizing he has been convicted.
I want to ask you about what else is happening today with your committee, Republicans subpoenaing both the former FBI Director Jim Comey and the former Attorney General Loretta Lynch. And this is all about testifying behind closed doors next week. Comey is saying, look, if I do it, I want it to be public, end of story.
Your committee making it more personal today, saying, and let me quote the tweet, Comey had plenty of time for public appearances between his book tour and TV talk shows. This isn't show time, it's congressional oversight to ensure there's accountability of the decision that were made by the DOJ in 2016.
Chairman, Comey says he's happy to do it, but only if it is in the open. What's the harm in saying yes and letting it be public?
GOODLATTE: Well, a big problem. First of all, as director of the FBI, James Comey never ever conducted an interview like that in public. We're just talking about Paul Manafort, I'm sure none of those interviews were conducted in public.
We're about gathering the facts, we're near the end of this, we've had more than a dozen other witnesses testify on the record under oath, behind closed doors. And that's what you do when you're gathering information, so that other witnesses don't hear the testimony of the people you're trying to get to testify.
He's one of the last ones, and he should cooperate, because that's what he -- as the FBI director expected of everyone who received a lawfully issued subpoena, issued by the FBI. And then multitude of investigations they've engaged in.
When you have a public hearing, each member of Congress gets five minutes to ask questions. Following all of the work by the independent counsel -- the inspector general and the committee and the people we've interviewed, we have hundreds of questions to ask him, and it's not an appropriate forum to do it in a public setting like that.
He needs to come in and answer the questions that we have, that's all we ask, we're trying to get to the bottom of this. And if he's worried about transparency, we're happy to make that transcript available to the public after the work is done.
[19:40:00] BURNETT: And video? Transcript and a video?
GOODLATTE: We've not done it under video before, that's certainly a possibility. I haven't given much thought to that, but we've definitely transcribed these interviews. We have not videoed any of them to this point. And making them available is something we intend to do for all of the interviews we conducted.
BURNETT: All right. Quickly, before we go, since these e-mails are of importance to you. Republican Senator Ron Johnson, obviously, on your committee, Trey Gowdy, an oversight committee chairman, they are interested in pursuing Ivanka Trump's e-mails, to get to the bottom of exactly what happened there. Do you support that?
GOODLATTE: Well, certainly, to be consistent they need to inquire about what occurred there, I have no problem with that. I do think, of course, it's very different to send private e-mails about matters that are not classified information. There's a criminal penalty imposed for doing that when you have classified information that is transmitted improperly as was the allegation. And I think the facts now support with regard to Hillary Clinton.
But certainly, when things like this come up, it's important people understand, they need to make sure that they're doing what they can. And it's awfully tough as everyone knows when you're sending e-mails about a lot of different things to make sure that you're doing it according to the rules in the White House or wherever you're doing it.
BURNETT: I'm sure Hillary Clinton would agree with you. Thank you very much. I appreciate your time, Chairman Goodlatte.
GOODLATTE: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, President Trump trashing his own administration's report on climate change.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: They say economic impact will be devastating.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes, I don't believe it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Plus, police investigating two nooses found outside Mississippi state capitol, just hours before that state's racially charged special election. Tonight, President Trump in Mississippi.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:45:44] BURNETT: Tonight, President Trump dismissing a report that warns of dire consequences if more isn't done to fight climate change. Here's what the president said as he left the White House today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Have you read the climate report yet?
TRUMP: I've seen it, I've read some of it, and it's fine.
REPORTER: They say the economic impact will be devastating.
TRUMP: Yes, I don't believe it.
REPORTER: You don't believe it?
TRUMP: No, no, I don't believe it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: All right. So just to be clear, you couldn't be more clear, right? He's disagreeing with a report from his own administration. And when I say that, let me be specific, 13 federal agencies in the Trump administration, 1,000 people contributing to it, including 300 scientists. That's the Trump administration.
OUTFRONT now, Robert Reich, former U.S. labor secretary under President Clinton and author of "The Common Good", and Stephen Moore, informal adviser to the White House and author of 'Trumponomics", for each of their most recent books.
All right. So, thank you both.
So, you get 13 agencies, you get a thousand people, 300 scientists, but, Steve, meh. He doesn't care. He says it's just dead wrong, what it concludes that the economy could shrink by 10 percent?
STEPHEN MOORE, INFORMAL WHITE HOUSE ADVISER: When I first came to Washington, Erin, there was another report that came out that was prepared by thousands of government scientists and all the leading academics, it was called the Global 2000 report. It reported the world was going to come to an end by 2000 and people were going to be hungry and we're going to run out of oil and all those things were false.
So, just because you get a multi-agency report that says these things are going to happen doesn't necessarily make them true and we know that from history.
But, look, I'll tell you what would be economically devastating to the economy, and that is going to 100 percent renewable energy, and not using any of our fossil fuels, our natural gas, our oil, our coal. We have more of these than any other country in the world. We're the new Saudi Arabia of energy production, and to shut that down would be truly devastating to the American economy in a way that these scientists don't take into account?
ROBERT REICH, FORMER U.S. LABOR SECRETARY UNDER PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON: Well, anybody who says, and, Steve Moore, I really respect you, and you're a good guy, but let me just say, anybody who says that it is going to be too expensive to deal with climate change has not experienced climate change, doesn't know what's in these reports. You know, more and more Americans have experienced this directly.
I was here last week in the Bay Area of San Francisco. I and my family breathed in a lot of the smoke from the wildfires that set California ablaze, and by the way, it's not just bad forest management, it has to do with climate change. More and more Americans are dealing with floods and hurricanes and droughts, people understand that the costs are huge, and by the way, the costs of dealing with climate change, relative to the cost of climate change are very, very small.
It's not a matter of 100 percent going to wind and solar, it's a matter of doing more than we are doing now. And what Donald Trump wants to do is not only get out of the Paris accords, but also give up the clean power plant rules and also give up the fuel economy rules, and basically say to big oil and big coal, just go on, be as polluting as you possibly can, and make life impossible -- not only on this planet but the United States.
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: At this point, though, they also are going against. I mean, the president is going against specifically his own team, right? The people who are supposed to get up every day and be motivated to do their best and work for president, the thousand of them that worked on this, their work is a bunch of bologna.
It's not the first time -- in fact, he did that -- we know he's done it with Russian meddling, right? But just last week, he did it to the CIA, when it comes to the Saudi prince ordering the killing of Jamal Khashoggi. Let me just remind everybody. He was asked specifically about the CIA assessment. And why he doesn't believe it and he said, oh, it's not definitive and then he added this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We are with Saudi Arabia. We're staying with Saudi Arabia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Steve, you know him, why does he not trust the people who are working for him and this country, who have chosen to dedicate their lives to public service, whether it'd be on climate change related issue or intelligence? He denigrates and humiliates their work in public.
[19:50:02] Why? MOORE: Well, neither of you addressed my issue about the last time we
had a multi-agency report. Every single conclusion they came to was completely wrong.
(CROSSTALK)
MOORE: And, by the way, we had President Obama who as recently as five or six years ago was running around the country, Erin, saying that we had to use solar power because we're running out of oil and gas, now we have more oil and gas than we can possibly, you know, use. I mean, a lot of these --
REICH: Steve, you're not answering Erin's question.
MOORE: One other point --
REICH: Erin's question is this president lives in a fact-free universe, he's not listening to anybody, even the people around him who are supposed to advise him.
MOORE: But these aren't his advisors who are putting up this report.
BURNETT: These are people who work for him. They work for him. It's the CIA. It's 13 agencies.
(CROSSTALK)
MOORE: Erin, we have created a climate change industrial complex with billions and billions of dollars at stake. A lot of people are getting really, really, really rich off the climate change issue. Look, I'm not saying there is climate change or not.
By the way, Bob, when you say stuff like forest fires in California were caused by climate change, that's exactly why there's so much skepticism, because there's forest fires in California for hundreds of years. I mean, come on.
BURNETT: There's not so much skepticism.
(CROSSTALK)
REICH: Can I get in here?
(CROSSTALK)
REICH: Steve Moore, what you are debating is sort of flat world versus --
MOORE: I know, you're the flat earther.
REICH: And, Steve, there is no doubt about this. I mean, nobody -- I haven't been able to find a legitimate scientist who says that climate change is not going --
MOORE: I'll give you hundreds of them.
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: Steve, playing back tape is not going to be good in this case.
REICH: Thirteen agencies, this is a thousand people working for Donald Trump, this is 300 scientists who are the leading scientists, they are all saying the same thing. Why does Donald Trump know better than they do?
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: I'm going to hit pause, there's more to talk about this.
MOORE: Why would we rely on the federal government to try to change the weather pattern of the earth? That's never going to happen.
BURNETT: I still want to know why the answer to my question, which is why he doesn't show respect for what the people who work for him do. Whether they were hired by him or not, they do work for him.
All right. Thank you both very much.
And next, Trump's rescue mission in Mississippi. Will tonight's rallies be enough to get the Republican across the finish line?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:55:26] BURNETT: Tonight, what was a sure bet for Republicans is now a battle. President Trump holding his second rally tonight for Cindy Hyde-Smith for Mississippi Senate runoff tomorrow, trying to get her over the finish line and hold off Mike Espy after a series of controversial comments that have given Democrats a shocking glimmer of hope in the Deep South.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Cindy's far-left opponent, he's far left. Oh, he's out there. How does he fit in with Mississippi? Just -- I could go over this but how does he fit in?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Jessica Dean is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A high-stakes Senate race mired in racial tension got even more charged with the discovery of nooses on the state capitol grounds. An apparent protest against racist overtones in the election with signs reading, quote: we are hanging nooses to remind people that times haven't changed.
SEN. CINDY HYDE-SMITH (R), MISSISSIPPI: We are prepared for it.
DEAN: The race took a turn earlier this month with a video in which Republican incumbent Senator Cindy Hyde-Smith appeared with a reporter and used this phrase to describe her devotion to him.
HYDE-SMITH: If he invited me to a public hanging, I'd be on the front row.
DEAN: The fallout happened quickly with Hyde-Smith's opponent, Democrat Mike Espy, who's African-American, seizing on the comment, calling it reprehensible.
MIKE ESPY (D), MISSISSIPPI SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: I don't know what's in your heart but we know what came out of your mouth and it went viral within the first three minutes around the world. And so it's caused our state harm. It's given our state another black eye.
DEAN: During their lone debate, Hyde-Smith offered this apology.
HYDE-SMITH: You know, for anyone that was offended by my comments, I certainly apologize. There was no ill will, no intent whatsoever in my statement. I also recognize that this comment was twisted and it was turned into a weapon to be used against me, a political weapon.
DEAN: On his way to a rally to support her today, President Trump maintained steadfast support for Hyde-Smith.
TRUMP: She certainly didn't mean that and, you know, it was taken a certain way but she certainly didn't mean it.
DEAN: Another video released on Twitter showed Hyde-Smith appearing to smoke about suppressing the vote of students.
HYDE-SMITH: And then they remind me that there's a lot of liberal folks. Maybe we want to make it just a a little more difficult. So, I think that's a great idea.
DEAN: Hyde-Smith's campaign said she was joking. But controversy has continued to follow the senator. During a review of Hyde-smith's legislative history, CNN's KFILE found then State Senator Hyde-Smith supported a measure promoting a Confederate soldier's right to defend his homeland. A 2014 Facebook post surfaced showing Hyde-Smith touring a museum of Confederate artifacts and calling it, quote, Mississippi history at its best.
"The Washington Post" reported that in 2001 -- again as a state senator -- Hyde-Smith introduced a bill to rename a stretch of state highway to its name from the 1930s. The Jefferson Davis Memorial Highway honoring the president of the confederacy. And the "Jackson Free Press" reported last week, Hyde-Smith attended a private school founded in 1970 so white parents could avoid sending their children to integrated schools and sent her daughter to a similar school.
While Hyde-Smith remains the favorite to win on Tuesday, Republicans aren't taking any chances with President Trump headlining two rallies for her on Monday.
TRUMP: Send Cindy Hyde-Smith back to the United States Senate so we can make America great again.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: All right. You know, Jessica, look, the president holding two rallies where you are tonight. Obviously, this is the crucial night. How confident are Republicans about this race right now?
DEAN: Well, Erin, President Trump won Mississippi by 18 points back in 2016. They're not expecting Hyde-Smith to get that wide of a margin but they are expecting her to emerge victorious tomorrow. But as you mentioned, they're just not taking any chances.
The president holding two rallies tonight and -- get this -- since election day for this runoff specifically, $5.1 million have been poured into this state for ads, the bulk of that from Republican groups. So, they certainly don't want to take any chances -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Jessica, thank you very much. We'll be talking to you tomorrow night.
And thanks to all of you for joining us. We'll see you then.
"ANDERSON" starts now.
