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Erin Burnett Outfront
Rep. Lloyd Doggett (D) Texas Is Interviewed About The Request Of The House Ways And Means Committee's Request Of The IRS Release Of President Trump's Tax Returns; Official: FBI Investigating Mar-A-Lago Breach For Possible Espionage; NYT: Some Mueller Investigators Believe Findings Are More Troubling for Trump Than Barr Indicated. Aired on 7-8p ET
Aired April 03, 2019 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, ANCHOR, CNN: Brynn Gingras in Boston, thanks for that report. And to our viewers, thanks very much for watching. You can follow me on Twitter and Instagram @WOLFBLITZER. You can always tweet the show @CNNSITROOM. Erin Burnett OutFront starts right now.
ERIN BURNETT, ANCHOR, CNN: OutFront next breaking news, Democrats officially demanding six years of President Trump's tax returns. Moments ago the President responding. Also breaking this hour, the FBI now investigating the security breach at Mar-A-Lago looking into whether it was an espionage attempt by the Chinese. FBI now in this. And Joe Biden breaking his silence speaking to the camera, is it all but certain now that he's decided to run? Let's go OutFront.
And good evening, I'm Erin Burnett. OutFront tonight, the breaking news, President Trump making it clear he's not handing over his tax returns. This after the Chairman of the Powerful House Ways and Means Committee just an hour ago formally requested six years of Trump's tax returns. They've given a deadline, seven days. The President says, "I'm under audit." Translation, no way.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, the Chairman of the Democratic House Ways and Means Committee moments ago asked the IRS for six years of your tax returns, what are your ...
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Is that all?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's all.
TRUMP: Oh, usually it's 10, so I guess they're giving up. Until such time as I'm not under order I would not be inclined to do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OK, not incline to do that. So this is the letter that just came to Commissioner of the IRS. Chairman Richard Neal from the House Ways and Means asking for Trump's personal and business tax returns. Chairman Neal says the request is part of his oversight responsibilities. Lauren Fox is OutFront live on Capitol Hill. She broke this story first after getting the letter from the Chairman of the House Ways and Means.
So Lauren, the Chairman has been handling this very carefully, now putting this out there and starting what's going to be a big war. Why now?
LAUREN FOX, CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER, CNN: Well, Erin, that's right. The day after the election I went up and I interviewed Richard Neal, he told me then that he plan to do this but that was back in November. Of course, once Democrats took the majority in January he had a case to build. They expected this will go to the courts, therefore, they need to have an air sealed tight case when it comes to requesting the President's tax returns, so that's why it's taken so long.
And we've been asking members that are on that Committee, many liberal members who are getting a little frustrated with how long it was taking their Chairman to request the tax returns. But in this letter he had very specific reasons why he wanted the information.
He said in the letter, "Consistent with its authority, the committee is considering legislative proposals and conducting oversight related to our federal tax laws including but not limited to the extent which the IRS audits and enforces the federal tax laws against a president." Now, there is a program at the IRS where essentially they audit current sitting presidents.
Now, the President has already said he was under audit long before he took office in the Oval Office, but this is a formal process that happens for all presidents. Richard Neal essentially saying, "I need to know more about that process to know if we need to codify it into law." He need to know exactly what is happening, Erin.
BURNETT: All right, thank you very much. And now let's go to Democratic Congressman Lloyd Doggett who's on the House Ways and Means Committee which, of course, is requesting those returns. Congressman, good to have you with me.
LLOYD DOGGETT, WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE: Thank you, Erin.
BURNETT: Look, this is a big move, you guys took your time and you're striking now when you think you've got what you need. What are you hoping to find?
DOGGETT: Well, after two years of Republican cover-up of these and the many motions I made in the committee and three long months in this new Congress, I'm very pleased the request has been made. We have responsibility to ensure the integrity of our tax system to evaluate what happens in tax legislation and the actions of this administration. This is long overdue.
I would have like it to be a little earlier and a little broader in scope, but I think this is a very good beginning and I salute Chairman Neal for his thoroughness and care in making this request.
BURNETT: So I want to ask you because when you say broader in scope, look, this potentially could be huge and I want to play again what the President just said to reporters and basically saying no way to you guys. He's going to fight it. Let me just play it again because there's something important in here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, the Chairman of the Democratic House Ways and Means Committee moments ago asked the IRS for six years of your tax returns, what are your ...
TRUMP: Is that all?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's all.
TRUMP: Oh, usually it's 10, so I guess they're giving up. Until such time as I'm not under order I would not be inclined to do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Look, he's saying he's being audited, but what I'm focused in here is he's surprised that you guys aren't requesting 10 or more years. We've got the information that we have learned from his taxes, a leaked return from 2005 which would be outside your range showed he paid $38 million in taxes on more than $150 million in income.
[19:05:05]
Tax schemes to avoid paying taxes was from a massive New York Times analysis. But all of that would predate what you are asking for. Are you worried you didn't ask for enough? I mean the six years you're asking for he was always planning to run for President that time.
DOGGETT: Yes. As you know in the legislation that's passed the House For the People Act, it specifies a 10-year period and it specifies businesses where he's the principal owner. So this is more narrow both as to the number of businesses and to the length of time doesn't necessarily mean that's the last request, but I think the chairman carefully tailored this request to make it very easy for the Treasury Department to comply with this near 100-year old statute.
When Secretary Mnuchin came in front of our committee, I asked him what part of shall he needed legal advice on because the statute is explicit. It doesn't require a subpoena, it requires really a ministerial duty by the Internal Revenue Service and the Secretary.
BURNETT: OK.
DOGGETT: You mentioned the audits, Erin, this is I think an important point. We have the Richard Nixon experience, a very similar situation. The IRS at that time actually praised Nixon, but when we got the information at the Ways and Means Committee, my predecessors there, it turned out that he owed almost half a million dollars in taxes. That's when he asked the Committee to take a look to determine whether he was a crook.
He ended up having to pay more taxes. This process is a review not only of his action, but of the Internal Revenue Service to ensure they've been doing their job. BURNETT: All right, so when you mentioned complying though, the
Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin obviously Trump's Treasury Secretary who oversees the IRS, so he's going to be the guy who makes the call. You did recently ask him if he would comply and I just wanted to play a quick part of his response.
DOGGETT: Right.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVEN MNUCHIN, TREASURY SECRETARY: I'm not aware if there's ever been a request for an elected official's tax return, but we will follow the law and we will protect the President as we would protect any individual taxpayer under their rights.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Which was a fancy way of saying, "He's not going to do it." I mean the IRS website itself says the law, let me just quote, generally prohibits the release of tax information by an IRS employee. Do you have any expectation Mnuchin will comply?
DOGGETT: Let me say I support that law completely. That's part of the law that authorizes us to request these returns and says that they shall be provided. Yes, Mr. Mnuchin is Mr. double-talk. He's about as straightforward as our Attorney General Mr. Barr is on the Mueller report. The emphasis there was on him protecting the President. He has a statutory duty and if he does not comply, our committee needs to take further legal action.
BURNETT: So what will you do? Obviously, you've got a tight date here and I think you know they're not going to meet it. It's next week. You're not giving them much time. They're not going to do it. They're going to flaunt you. What are you going to do then?
DOGGETT: They've had plenty of time in that same hearing where I asked Mr. Mnuchin, he indicated he had some exchange in conversations with Chairman Neal about this. They've been aware of this for a long time. Now they finally have the message. It's time for them to fulfill their ministerial duty and deliver those returns and if they don't we need to take proper legal action.
BURNETT: Mr. Trump obviously can put his money through a whole lot of different ways other than his personal return, that's why he requested some business returns but he's got about 400 different companies. You request eight. Why those eight? Are you sure those are the right ones?
DOGGETT: No, I'm not. I would have preferred to request many more. He in fact has about 500 such companies in his financial disclosure form. I think what were selected were the five companies most involved in the Trump Organization plus three golf courses. It's a good beginning and it may be that in a thorough review of them, we will find a need to get to other returns.
I should also make very clear that the fact we get those returns doesn't mean we'll be broadcasting them on your program or on the front page of the New York Times. We will honor the President's privacy, review them carefully with experts before making any decision on whether they should be released to the Congress and the public. I think he's owed that, but he owes a responsibility to the American people to comply with what the law is.
BURNETT: Congressman Doggett, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much.
DOGGETT: Thank you.
BURNETT: And I want to go straight now to our Chief Political Analyst Gloria Borger. Gloria, they took their time.
GLORIA BORGER, CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST, CNN: They did.
BURNETT: It's surgical.
BORGER: Yes.
BURNETT: Obviously, you heard Congressman Doggett making it clear he would have gone broader, but I suppose they could still do that. OK, what do you make of this? They've chosen to do it. The President's already said, "No way."
BORGER: Right.
BURNETT: And here we are.
BORGER: Well, look, this first of all shows you the power of the majority. This is something the Democrats have been talking about for a very long time. But what I think Congressman Neal did is make a very narrow legal argument that he and the Democrats believe will stand up in court.
[19:10:03]
And they say the IRS is required, they don't need a subpoena that the IRS is required to give them this information and so they said, "Look, we're trying to look at this." And this is a contrived argument in a way because they wanted to make it narrow. "You are required to give us this information, because all presidents are under audit and we don't know what standards you use for presidents when they are under audit." Do you look at their businesses? Do you just look at their stated income? And we want to codify how you look at presidential tax returns, because we don't really know.
So that's the narrow argument and they believe, obviously, this is going to go to court, but they wanted to stand up.
BURNETT: For sure. And obviously, we'll see if they get it and then they're able to get more. This is huge. It's hard to understate the importance of it.
BORGER: Absolutely.
BURNETT: It comes to the power of the majority as you say, Gloria, it's important.
BORGER: Yes.
BURNETT: House Judiciary Committee today also approving a subpoena for the full Mueller report. What happens there next?
BORGER: Well, I think this could go to court. I think what they were doing was essentially saying, "Barr, you better deliver because otherwise we're going to take you to court." So it's another area in which the Democrats are saying, "We're not going to lie down. We believe this ought to be released to the American public."
And Congressman Nadler said, "Look, I'm not going to send this subpoena out today, but it was a shot across the bow to Barr saying, "We're going to put some pressure on you here to do what you need to do, which is reveal everything."
BURNETT: We're ready to roll.
BORGER: Yes, absolutely.
BURNETT: All right, Gloria, thank you very much.
BORGER: Sure. Sure.
BURNETT: And next breaking news, the FBI now investigating the security breach at Mar-A-Lago. We are learning much more about this tonight. Plus, Joe Biden responding.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, FORMER UNITED STATES VICE PRESIDENT: The boundaries of protecting personal space have been reset and I get it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And Mayor Pete making his case to college voters today saying that he is now competing against people twice his age for younger voters. So here's the big question, who are young voters backing?
[19:15:00]
Breaking news, the FBI now investigating the serious security breach at President Trump's Mar-A-Lago. An official telling CNN they're looking to see if it was an espionage attempt, possibly by China. This after authorities say they took in a Chinese woman, she's actually now in jail tonight, for trying to lie her way into the President's resort. He was there that day.
Prosecutors say Chinese passports, a thumb drive with malicious software and four cell phones were among the items found on her. As I've said, she is behind bars tonight. President Trump though moments ago saying he has no worries.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: I'm not concerned at all. We have very good control. We have
extremely good and it's getting better - I think that was just a fluke situation. The result is they were able to get her and she's now suffering the consequences of whatever it is she had in mind.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Shimon Prokupecz is OutFront. Shimon, look, it's pretty incredible what's happening here and now learning that the FBI also involved, what else do you know?
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER, CNN: Yes, and with the FBI's involvement, it certainly makes this much more serious. The Secret Service still handling the criminal aspects of this case. The trespassing, the lying to them about what she was doing there, those allegations, that's what they're dealing with.
The FBI here has a much bigger concern and really essentially what we're told is they want to see if she was sent here by anyone, specifically it would have to be the Chinese. Whether she was coming here to act as some kind of a spy and intelligence asset on behalf of the Chinese and that's the big concern here. The malware, we talked about this last night, Erin, this malware is I think what's causing some folks concern. Was it on her thumb drive to be delivered into perhaps a computer system into the system at Mar-A-Lago and that is something that the FBI certainly is going to look into.
The other thing we've learned from court proceedings just a few days ago in her initial appearance, prosecutors there said that she had absolutely no ties to the United States. She has no connections to the U.S. She had no connections to Florida. So certainly more questions that need to be asked more mystery here as to exactly what she was doing there, how she got to Florida, all of those things is what the FBI is going to try and figure out, Erin.
BURNETT: Thank you very much, Shimon. All of this is so concerning in part because the reason she got so far and getting into the club was because of her last name Zhang or Jang and someone or a member of the club has that name and so they kept letting her through which is pretty scary in and of itself that they would do that. OutFront now Miami Herald Reporter Alex Daugherty, former Assistant Secretary for the Department of Homeland Security, Juliette Kayyem and retired FBI Supervisory Special Agent James Gagliano.
Alex, you've been doing a lot of reporting on this. Your reporting there was an investigation underway. They were very worried already looking at Chinese intelligence operations targeting the President and Mar-A-Lago and now this arrest has turbocharged to probe. Tell me the latest you know.
ALEX DAUGHERTY, MIAMI HERALD REPORTER: Yes. So that's the key here is that this investigation was ongoing before Zhang's arrest over the weekend. This is something that an FBI-led investigation has been going on for some time before even initial reports of potential Chinese influence and interaction at Mar-A-Lago. So this raises concerns of an ongoing attempt at Mar-A-Lago to potentially gain access to the President, his family or the inner workings of the club.
BURNETT: I mean, James, look you heard the President, he's got no concerns. But this is serious stuff, you got the FBI involved.
JAMES GAGLIANO, RETIRED FBI SUPERVISORY SPECIAL AGENT: Yes. So the Shimon's reporting and Alex' reporting to that point, but let's understand the lanes here. So the Secret Service handles the President's immediate security. The FBI has a list of priorities. Number one is preventing the next terrorist attack on U.S. soil. The number two out of 10 priorities for the FBI is to protect America from foreign intelligence operations and espionage.
Now, to not think that they were not already looking at this place from the beginning would be lunacy. I mean this is something that - yes, Franklin Delano Roosevelt had Warm Springs, Barack Obama had the Kenwood residential area in Chicago and George Bush had the Crawford Western White House in Texas. But those were residences.
[19:20:00]
This presents a problem because Mar-A-Lago has a membership base that uses it and is open at times to the public which presents an entirely different security concern for the Secret Service and the FBI.
BURNETT: So Juliette, part of the thing here is what she's - I want to get to the malware in a second, but what this woman was doing and I want to play some audio. We actually have audio from her today. So here she is and everyone can judge for themselves her English and that's what I'm asking you to listen to because this is important.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YUJING ZHANG: Yes please, translate. Thank you, so that it will be more clearly understanding Chinese than in English.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OK. Mar-A-Lago staff, Juliette, said that they first gave her access to the property on Saturday due to a potential language barrier issue. OK. So broken English, but in the criminal complaint, a Secret Service agent very explicitly says they spent time with her, they talked to her and, "She exhibited a detailed knowledge of, and ability to converse in and understand even subtle nuances of the English language." So this not speaking English well appears to be a farce.
JULIETTE KAYYEM, FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Right. She's a fraud and she is not some innocent Chinese woman who happened to see an advertisement about come meet the Trumps at Mar-A-Lago. She's playing for someone and we don't know if that's a government entity, if it's someone testing the system and that's what's so key here is that someone was testing the system.
And just going to James point, I want everyone to know that was a choice by the Trump administration regarding the status of Mar-A-Lago. In other words, we have two kinds of facilities when we talk about security. One is the secure facility, so think of the White House or the President's home, and then the other is what's called a suite to facility. That is one in which there would be a VIP and all you can really do is sweep people for metal detection or whatever, because you can't do the background checks necessary that we do now to enter the White House.
That was a choice and that set the security conditions for everything going on at Mar-A-Lago and it explains why the Secret Service last night essentially threw the White House under the bus in their explanation saying, "We did not set that standard." That came from either Mar-A-Lago or Trump directly that this would only be a suite facility and someone tested it and we know that she's not the first.
BURNETT: And in terms of the malware here which Alex was the first to report. She had these cell phones, James, and malware. What could this malware be? I mean if someone is saying you can go in a wireless network on the inside of a building and suddenly be doing some sort of bugging or something.
GAGLIANO: Well, whether or not she wanted to steal something or whether or not she wanted to infect the computer system and shut it down, that's part of the cyber concern that the FBI has now. Look, in a criminal investigation you're looking for information or allegations to open up a criminal probe. Counterintelligence is different and looking at this, the way the FBI would, it just seems so ham-handed.
Now, to Juliette's point, was this something where the Chinese would have sent somebody in to do something like this and to probe to see what layer they could get through. Obviously, the Secret Service is the inner most concentric circle there, but Mar-A-Lago, the folks at work, the employees at work there control access on the outside.
BURNETT: And Alex you're talking about the President of the United States has spent about one in every four days of his presidency at Mar-A-Lago or other Trump properties, also clubs like this one where you have membership lists, et cetera, 231 days, OK, that's pretty stunning. We all remember when he was at Mar-A-Lago when North Korea launched a missile and he was in the dining room and all of these people were there and everyone was taking pictures, their cell phone camera was on looking at this top-secret data, classified information and the cell phone is on. I mean it's pretty stunning, Alex.
DAUGHERTY: Yes. It's stunning and it's interesting. It gives a lot of opportunities obviously with all of the different events that are held at Mar-A-Lago for hundreds of people to potentially get access either to the President or at least close to the President, leaving potential vulnerabilities for, especially, foreign nationals to get access inside the facility.
I know you mentioned there was a confusion about her last name, for example. Unfortunately, we heard a Mar-A-Lago employee kind of raised questions when she got past that initial screening and that's what eventually led to her unraveling when the stories did not add up because she was there for an event that was not on the schedule. And there was an employee there who recognized that and that's what ultimately led to the Secret Service apprehending her. BURNETT: Yes, which is pretty shocking, I mean, how many people
didn't before that. You're right, someone finally did. But I mean I would say the emphasis is on the word finally. Juliette, the question is though, could the President's top secret meetings or conversations or information he's looking at classified be compromised at Mar-A- Lago?
[19:25:00]
KAYYEM: Oh, absolutely, I mean, whether it's that picture he showed of North Korea. Look, the capability of surveying this President and getting information from this President is a phone away. We all know that his phone is not secure and that's been reported on. So that's not the problem here and this goes to what Trump just said which I just found so interesting.
Trump talked about the security breach in the context of I, in the context of him that he was OK, that this was about him. It's not about him. This is about the United States' safety and security. It's about American security interests and it's his failure to see that and to essentially set the conditions of what security is like at Mar-A-Lago which is it's a commercial place, it's a place for business rather than it's a place that has America's greatest secrets.
BURNETT: All right, thank you all very much. And next, Joe Biden speaking out about his treatment of women.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: Social norms have begun to change, they've shifted. And the boundaries of protecting personal space have been reset and I get it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Plus, why is the White House refusing to correct the President after he said his father was - well, listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: My father is German, was German, and born in a very wonderful place in Germany.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
New tonight, Joe Biden speaking out after several women have come forward to say they had uncomfortable interactions with the former Vice President. Biden saying he'll be more mindful of what he is calling changing social norms in a video that makes it pretty clear he's running.
[19:30:07]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLEP)
BIDEN: I've never thought of politics as cold and antiseptic. I've always thought about connecting with people. And I said, shaking hands, hands on the shoulder, a hug, encouragement. And now -- and now it's all about taking selfie together.
You know, social norms have begun to change, they've shifted. And the boundaries of protecting personal space have been reset, and I get it. I get it.
I hear what they are saying. I understand it. And I'll be much more mindful. That's my responsibility.
In the coming month, I expect to be talked to about a whole lot of issues and I'll a always be direct with you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OUTFRONT now, Jeff Zeleny, our senior Washington correspondent, Jess McIntosh, former director of communications outreach for the Hillary Clinton campaign, and Maria Cardona, Democratic strategist.
OK, Jeff, let me just hone in for just a brief second, on the last few years of that. Pretty clear that he's kind of saying, OK, now, I've addressed this, I'm going to be talking about a lot of other issues because I'm running.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: No doubt, and that confirms what we've been hearing from his aides and friends and donors that he is undeterred by this and he does indeed still is on course to likely form the candidacy at the end of the month now told even maybe early May. So, this is not going to change his plans to run for president. But I do think it changes a lot of other things.
It makes clear this is not the final word. I talked to several advisers and friends again of his. And they said he wanted to reclaims his railroaded and explain his humanity, which he is trying to do that. But no question, it's not the final word. This now will be part of the sound track of his campaign. It will be brought up at debates and other things by maybe voters. Maybe rival candidates, maybe all the above.
BURNETT: All right, Jess. Did he get the tone right, changing social norms?
JESS MCINTOSH, FORMER DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS OUTREACH, HILLARY CLINTON CAMPAIGN: I was disappointed that he put it on to changing social norms. Paternal behavior towards women in a workplace setting has been making women uncomfortable for generations. The only social norm around that that has changed is that men now listen to us when we say that out loud. That's the only social norm that's changed here.
He didn't apologize.
BURNETT: No.
MCINTOSH: He didn't apologize to the women who he made uncomfortable.
I thought that was really lacking. And it bothered me more because of, honestly, the way he's handled his role in the Anita Hill hearings where he said over and over again, I wish I could have done more. I wish I could have done something. He was in charge of those hearings.
So he seems unwilling to take responsibility or discuss his own role in either of those cases. And I think that's what women are waiting to hear from him.
BURNETT: I mean, Maria, there was no apology there. He did say social norms have changed and what he did was about connecting with people. Let me play the operative clips again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: I've always tried to make a human connection. I've never thought of politics as cold and antiseptic. I always thought about connecting with people. Always believe governing, quite frankly, life for that matter, is about connecting, about connecting with people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Physically, Maria.
MARIA CARDONA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I think that's what he said in his video, that he understands he did wrong. I have a slightly different take than Jess. I do think he struck the right tone in that if he acknowledged, which he had not before, that his behavior did make women uncomfortable. He put aside the "I did it innocently and I did it innocuously" which I do belief he did and he focused on how his behavior and his interactions with women made them feel.
I do think he also tried to explain why he behaves that way. A lot of people knowing him well know that he is very touchy feely, and that he doesn't mean anything malicious by it. At the end of it I also liked how he said it's unthinkable I would not be able to change my behavior, understanding moving forward what this means. And he said I will. I will.
I thought it was very candid, very honest, and frankly, I think in true Joe Biden form.
I don't think this is the end of it. I agree with Jeff. He is going to continue to get questions on it. And it will all depend on how he answers those. And it's up to the voters and to the women what they think about that.
BURNETT: And so, Jeff as you point out you've got voters, debates, town halls. It's coming up. Okay. But one person you didn't mention, is this person.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our former vice president -- he is -- I was going to call him I don't know him well. I was going to say well to the world, Joe. Are you having a good time, Joe?
I said, General, come here, give me a kiss. I felt like Joe Biden. (END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:35:03] BURNETT: He loves it.
ZELENY: He loves it. And this is yet the latest example of the president trying to play in the Democratic primary. He has been waiting for this. He is doing this as any turn. That was last night. He'll do it again.
The question is, of course, the behavior from President Trump should be pointed out but it did not cost him the election at all. The standards are always different. So, when anyone -- I guess it's interesting to see the former vice president's response to that.
So far anyone who has gone up against President Trump and gotten in the mud with him if you will has lost. So, we'll see how he responds. But the president -- President Trump wants to make this part of the issue.
I'm not sure that he hurts the vice president -- former vice president's case in this. He actually may make him more sympathetic and remind you know what Joe Biden did is nothing at all compared to --
CARDONA: Yes, that's right.
ZELENY: -- what the president was on tape doing of course in the "Access Hollywood" tape.
BURNETT: Right, of course, you never want to get in a game of comparing on these things. I mean, it's dicey, right.
Jess, here's the question. It's going to come down as Jeff says whether voters care, whether women voters care, younger voters care.
MCINTOSH: Sure.
BURNETT: And we just don't know.
MCINTOSH: Yes. I mean, I think at this point, it's very early. This is certainly not -- I think the way that he would want to begin his presidential campaign. The reason why it matters it's not just I find in behavior icky. I don't love it when older men do this to me in a workplace setting.
If you are running for president, you are running to be responsible for rights and freedoms and in many cases, our bodies. You have to be able to hear women. You have to be able to hear the concerns and respond in a really meaningful way. I'm hopeful we are moving in that direction.
BURNETT: Maria, Jeff said that Biden is -- we had heard by the end of April and now, Jeff said it could be early May. We don't know.
I got to say for one set on doing it, I mean the guy has a gum on the bottom of his shoes. OK? And the fund raising numbers came out for the first quarter today. Beto 18 days, $9.4 million. Bernie Sanders, $18 million. Kamala Harris, $12 million. Pete Buttigieg, $7 million.
How much is left for Joe Biden?
CARDONA: Yes, I agree with you. I think if he is doing it he has to do it here quickly, because people are starting to solidify on who they like.
Now, it's still very early. I understand that. But I do think that it's time. I think that maybe a lot of voters are starting to get impatient with him. And the fact that maybe he is waiting believes he can just jump in and be the front runner. Perhaps that's the case.
But I think they're going to be less patient with him moving forward. He is going to continue to get questions about this. And so again, we'll see. It's early, up to the voters.
BURNETT: When he gets in, he has to go all in, wall to wall, every single second.
CARDONA: That's right.
BURNETT: Whole list of questions.
Thank you.
And next, which candidates catching the attention of millennials.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Give me your three.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Probably Warren, Mayor Pete and Bernie Sanders.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Plus, the White House unable to explain this unfounded claim about windmills made by Don Quixote. I mean, Donald Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They say the noise causes cancer. You tell me that one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Why do his aides allow him to say thing that have no basis in fact. Former Trump top executive is OUTFRONT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:42:02] BURNETT: All right. Breaking news: "The New York Times" has just reported that some of Robert Mueller's investigators believe their report is far more damaging for President Trump than the Attorney General Bill Barr has made it out to be.
According to this report in "The New York Times", which as I said is just coming out now as we reading through it, special counsel investigators wrote multiple summaries of their report.
OK. So, they sort of I guess wrote multiple summaries. And some team members are -- apparently believe Barr should have included more material in the four-page memo than he did. That memo, of course, you remember stated that quote while this report does not conclude that the president committed a crime it also does not exonerate him. That was of course referring to obstruction ever justice charges.
According to "The Times", officials declined to say why their findings are potentially more damaging for the president.
All right. Juliette Kayyem is back, assistant former assistant secretary for Department of Homeland Security. James Gagliano also back with me. And Harry Sandick also joins me, former assistant U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York, joins me on the phones as this is just breaking.
Juliette, what do you make of this? We should note, we don't know how many have the feelings. We know there were 19 lawyers, 40 FBI investigators. We have no idea if it's one or 20 or any -- we have no idea how many have the feelings.
But what's your take? They say they failed to adequately portray their findings.
JULIETTE KAYYEM, FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR DHS: Right. So, I mean, it's definitely more than one because "The New York Times" has it sourced with more than one. I think it comes down to four words, the four words that we all wondered what it meant -- does not exonerate him.
What was behind that language that led Mueller to conclude that the investigation does not exonerate the president, and that was left open by the attorney general's sort of weak summary? And so, presumably that's what the focus on. And the second take away is that Mueller's team anticipated at least some disclosure of the executive summaries or the summaries. And they protected them from any sort of releasing of classified information.
Barr did not release them. These people do not work for the Department of Justice anymore. Many of them are back at their law firms. They can be subpoenaed. They will testify.
BURNETT: And, James, I mean here is the thing, right, we know the report had what, 65 to 100 words in the title of Bob Mueller actually in the summary that Bill Barr put out to the public, OK? Here is the thing. According to the "New York Times" some -- as Juliette points out more than one, we don't know how many. They've written multiple summaries and they wanted more.
JAMES GAGLIANO, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Right.
BURNETT: They basically said -- I assume here is all kinds of drafts we think adequately summarize. That's not what he used. They don't feel what he did adequately portray what they found. That's incredible to say. GAGLIANO: So we know the special counsel to your point had 19
attorneys working for him, prosecutors, and some 40 FBI agents. I can tell from you having worked in large groups on investigations before, you're never going to get everybody to agree.
[19:45:01] You're not getting the prosecutors to agree with the investigators and not getting individual investigators to agree with other investigators.
So, the thing here I think that jumps out at me was the lack of prosecutorial decision on the obstruction of justice. I worked as a security -- you know, for security for Bob Mueller throughout different tours that he went on during the course of his 12 years at FBI director. He was a guy that made decisions. For this to be pushed back to the attorney general --
BURNETT: Or to Congress.
GAGLIANO: Right, but I don't know if there weren't discussions and arguments within the team that some thought maybe yes we can go that route. Some thought no, and he came down in the middle and said I push it back to Congress.
BURNETT: Harry, what do you read some into this headline, some of the Mueller team see the report as more damaging for Trump than Barr revealed?
HARRY SANDICK, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK (via telephone): Yes, I agree with what we've been saying the past few minutes. I also think it's interesting in that the Mueller team was sort of famously not leaking anything, very reluctant to even make any statements on the record at all. That was the time they made a public statement to kind of criticize some "BuzzFeed" reporting.
But it seems now natures over, that some of the people, you know, are not happy with the way Barr is reporting the report, and having prepared summaries of their own. The question I think that if I were in Congress I'd be asking is, why can't you at least give us the summaries? And while we litigate the issue or debate the issue of how much of the rest of the report can be turned over?
The summaries would seem to have been tailor made to give out rather than Barr create his sort of 2-1/2 Starr summary which he had to retract and say it wasn't really a summary.
BURNETT: Yes, it seems to me all this does is make the case for put it out and let people make their minds up, right? The American people, we paid for this. I mean, let me read another sentence here from the reporting in "The New York Times."
I quote: At the same time, Mr. Barr and his advisers are expressed their own frustrations about Mr. Mueller and his team. Mr. Barr and other Justice Department officials believe the special counsel's investigators fell short of their task by declining to decide whether Mr. Trump illegally obstructed the inquiry according to the government officials.
So, now, they're trying to say, it was Mueller who made the decision not under pressure -- there is a lot of politicking going on.
GAGLIANO: And that was my point. I think everybody was shock. And everybody expected the special counsel would come down on the collusion which he did and said there wasn't any. And would come down on the obstruction of justice.
But for him not to do that, to Harry's point, you know, was that meant to be pushed towards Congress? Would it have been more helpful to have the summaries released? I don't know why the attorney general made the decision but he did.
BURNETT: And, of course, on collusion, they used the word establish, leaving open the door, was there none, or was there tons up the legal bar? We just -- Juliette, we don't know. But I think Harry raises an important point, Juliette. There is now leaking going on.
KAYYEM: Right. I think that's important. But I also want to put the leaking with the congressional strategy. A lot of questions are why -- why are House Democrats giving Barr more time?
They are setting a runway for litigation. I think it's actually the strategy is brilliant. They keep giving Barr more time. They keep telling him, we'll give you more time because this is clearly ending up in court.
At any moment, Barr could release the summaries that we know exist that do not disclose classified information. And at any moment, Barr is setting himself up for failure. I've been saying this all along.
Get some of the stuff out. You don't need to get all of it. And then we could litigate the smaller pieces.
BURNETT: All right. Pretty amazing that there are multiple summaries they wrote. Barr used none.
Thank you all very much.
Next, President Trump claims his father was born in Germany. Not true. Actually a birth certificate. Can you believe it? There is a birth certificate. He was born in the Bronx.
Lie, lie. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:52:04] BURNETT: The White House refusing to explain why President Trump repeatedly claims that his father was born in Germany when, in fact, he was not born in Germany. Trump's father, Fred Trump was born in New York City.
When pressed the Trump adviser said flippantly said Obama thought we had 57 states and sometimes mistakes happen.
But the thing is where your father is born is not a mistake and by the way, this isn't a one-time thing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: My father is German, right? Was German, and born in a very wonderful place in Germany. So I have a great feeling for Germany.
My father is from Germany. Both of my parents are from the E.U.
Don't forget, both of my parents were born in E.U. sectors, OK? My mother was Scotland, my father was Germany.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Well, since he likes birth certificates, here's his father's. "Washington Post" got it. Here, New York City, Fred Trump.
This is weird. I want to go now to Jack O'Donnell, former president and chief operating officer of Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino.
So, Jack, can I ask you a question? Just why?
JACK O'DONNELL, FORMER PRESIDENT & CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER, TRUMP PLAZA HOTEL & CASINO: Well, Erin, that's a great question. Listen, he's pathological. We know this. We've seen it not just since he announced for the president, but he's been this way ever since I've known him 28 years ago. And so, I do think it's part of who he is. He's compulsive.
Why he would lie about something where there's really no consequence is really a mystery because it really doesn't matter. The only thing I would suggest is by saying this, he's trying to ingratiate himself to someone, and so there is a gain for him, but this is just part of his pathology, quite frankly.
BURNETT: I mean, it's really amazing to me, right? There were three specific times where the president of the United States says his father was born in the E.U., in Germany. Trump's father died when Donald Trump, the president of the United States was in his 50s, OK? I really -- I find this actually really quite disturbing.
You said, Jack, that Trump's lying is what made you quit working for him. Why is that? How pervasive was it even years ago?
O'DONNELL: Yes. Well, Erin, the best way I can explain it is if you were to sit down and have dinner with him for an hour, I can promise you there's going to be ten to 15 lies during that one-hour period. It's just constant with him, and in my situation, it really became for my own moral compass, I began to question it just being around his lies so often. And when I finally hit a breaking point it was very personal for me.
[19:55:01] He was lying about two friends that had died in order to cover some of his bad management, and that was the straw for me. And I think that part of the high turnover rate that he has both in his business and both at the White House today, I think it revolves around the lying and the dishonesty because eventually that wears people out. BURNETT: The president also made another bizarre claim about wind
turbines that the White House is struggling to explain and in fact, they're not. Listen to it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: If you have a wind mill anywhere near your house, congratulations. Your house just went down 75 percent in value.
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: And they say the noise causes cancer. You tell me that one, OK?
REPORTER: Do wind turbines cause cancer?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't have an answer on that. I don't -- I -- I don't have an answer to that.
REPORTER: I guess --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't have -- I really don't have information on that right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So, Jack, my question for you on this is why do you think Trump's aides allow him to say things that are blatantly false or you know, conspiracy theories or not fully backed by evidence and he does this all of the time and he's come out and talked about vaccines with the false things he said. They never correct him and never even acknowledge when they're looking at reporters and they know that we know that they know and they still don't say anything. Why?
O'DONNELL: Well, I think they're numb to it. The more you're around him, you know, he just does wear you out. They are numb to the lies and I don't think they know how to respond to the most ridiculous lies.
Now, the other thing is they're obviously very loyal and they are -- and they're protecting him at this point.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Jack. I appreciate your time.
O'DONNELL: Thank you.
BURNETT: And also tonight, Pete Buttigieg, the youngest candidate running for office in Boston courting the college vote, because voters under 30 turned out in record numbers in the midterms and could determine the presidency and Democrats are counting on them.
Jason Carroll is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Pete Buttigieg, the two-term mayor of South Bend, Indiana, leaned into his roots at Northeastern University. The 37-year-old is the youngest candidate in the crowded field of 2020 Democratic hopefuls and he's hoping his age will give him an edge.
MAYOR PETE BUTTIGIEG (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But I don't think young people will simply vote for the candidate who is nearest to them in age, at least not automatically. If I want to earn their vote I'm going to have to do just that. Earn it.
CARROLL: A Pew Research Center report shows millennials will make up roughly a quarter of eligible voters in 2020. Generation Z, those born after 1996, will make up another 10 percent and if the midterms are any indication, they are energized.
According to Tufts University, 31 percent of eligible voters turned out in the midterms and that was the highest turnout level in the past quarter century.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's this kind of resolve that if we vote maybe we can find people that represent our interests and actually care about our views.
CARROLL: The potential impact of the youth vote not lost on the field of 2020 candidates, all of whom are efforting to engage younger voters by highlighting issues such as climate change and higher education costs. So which candidates are getting their attention here in Boston?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Elizabeth Warren at the top, probably then Mayor Pete, and I think Beto. I think Beto has a really interesting energy.
CARROLL (on camera): Give me your three.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Probably Warren, Mayor Pete and Bernie Sanders.
CARROLL (voice-over): Bernie Sanders won younger voters during the 2016 primaries, including some of these college students who say they supported him then, but not all of them do now.
(on camera): What happened this go round?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What happened is I still like Bernie Sanders and they not a lot that he has to offer that's new compared to other people in the field. I just want a candidate who looks like me.
CARROLL (voice-over): Polling indicates Sanders who is 77 and the oldest in the group is still popular among younger voters and while he's not announced so, too, has former Vice President Joe Biden who is 76.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Biden, I think there is a role for someone with his level of experience and young people seeking someone who is comfortable in the position from day one. CARROLL: And this note of caution from researchers about their
findings regarding who young people prefer, the Democratic field is large and it is early in the political season.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If this were an academic year, it's the beginning of the semester. They're just handing out the syllabus.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL: And, Erin, to that point. A number of young people that we talked to say it's simply too early and they're looking at the field of candidates and where they stand on particular issues. And also, we should note that a number of young folks told us, look, whoever the nominee ends up being, we're going to end up rallying around that person. They're willing to do anything that they can to beat Donald Trump, they tell us.
BURNETT: They have a lot of power in determining who that nominee is and whether that person appeals to everyone else in the party. Pretty incredible.
Thank you very much, Jason.
And thank you for joining us.
Anderson starts now.
