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Erin Burnett Outfront
Interview with White House Trade Advisor Peter Navarro; Republican Operatives with Trump Ties are Helping Kanye West Get His Name on Ballots; Trump Says "Perhaps" Beirut Blast "Was An Attack". Aired 7-8p ET
Aired August 05, 2020 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: You got a great city over there and our heart goes out to everyone for this horrific, horrific explosion. Be careful over there. We'll stay in close touch.
To our viewers, thanks very much for watching. Erin Burnett OUTFRONT starts right now.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next, as the U.S. approaches 5 million coronavirus cases, the President insists the virus is just going to go away. But we've heard it before from him again, and again, and again and it's still here.
Plus, the biggest events since the pandemic started, 250,000 people at least expected gathering in America in one small town. Why is it taking place? Well, I'm going to talk to the Mayor.
And Republicans with ties to Donald Trump are helping Kanye West run for president. Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, the numbers don't lie. That's the message tonight from Dr. Anthony Fauci. The nation's top infectious disease experts saying that when it comes to coronavirus, the metrics are nothing to brag about.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: I mean, the numbers don't lie and every country has suffered. We, the United States, has suffered as much or worse than anyone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Let's take a look at the numbers. The U.S. right now on track to hit 5 million coronavirus cases in the next few days. Yesterday's death toll was 1,399. Death is his death, it's not testing. It's one of the highest since May. Right now 36 states in this country are trending in the wrong direction on that crucial metric of positivity rate.
And yet just moments ago, the President of the United States again was bragging about how well the U.S. is doing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's going away now. It'll go away like things go away. Absolutely. It's no question in my mind, it will go away. Please, get out, please. Hopefully sooner rather than later.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Look, everything goes away even our lives at some point, right? But the President has no plan to make it go away and today insisting again without a plan that schools must reopen, why?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: My view is the school should open, this thing's going away. It will go away like things go away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Things do go away, but the thing is that he says is going away is just it's not been going away. The President has been repeating this line again, and again and again. And here's the reality on the ground in state, after state, after state with positivity rising and deaths rising, there is absolutely no sign at all, that this thing is going to go away. No matter how many times Trump says it and he said it a lot. He is on March 10th.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It will go away. Just stay calm, it will go away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Death toll on that day, 28 deaths. It did not go away. Here he is on April 28th.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: But I think what happens is it's going to go away. This is going to go away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: The death toll on that day was 60,916 and it didn't go away. Here he is on May 8th.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: But eventually it's going to be gone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And the death toll on that day 80,172 and it didn't go away. Here he is on June 23rd. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We did so well before the plague and we're doing so well after the plague. It's going away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: One hundred twenty-three thousand seven hundred and fifteen deaths on that day and it didn't go away. The virus is still here. He said today it's going to go away, it's worth close to 160,000 deaths. So to say school should reopen because the virus will go away is ridiculous. That is not a plan. It's not an acceptable reason to reopen schools. They could open with strong plans with explicit help from the federal government.
Instead, there's denial. Denial that there's a problem saying the problem will just poof go away. President Trump though did not stop there today. He also went on to make this claim.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: If you look at children, children are almost - and I would almost say definitely - but almost immune from this disease. So few - they've got stronger - hard to believe, I don't know how you feel about it, but they have much stronger immune systems than we do, somehow, for this. And they don't have a problem. They just don't have a problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Well, they're not immune. A recent study found children under five have a viral load of 10 to 100 times more than older children and adults. And even if they're not sick themselves, studies do show children can spread the virus. Dr. Fauci saying, "It's been shown that children from 10 to 19 can transmit the virus to adults as well as adults can."
And when it comes to kids younger than 10, we know they have those high viral loads, we actually still amazingly and unacceptably, frankly, still don't know how they transmit the disease. So when you don't have all the facts, you can't claim children are immune. Look, we all wish this thing would go away but wishing it so does not make it so. It's time for the President to stop saying that and start doing specific things.
Kaitlan Collins is OUTFRONT at the White House tonight.
[19:05:00]
Kaitlan, the President doubling down tonight just saying it yet again that the virus is going to go away.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. He has said it for months and it has not gone away and he is going to continue to say it, it appears, until there is some kind of vaccine or more therapeutics are developed. And Erin, he also did not back off what he said about children earlier today, that virtually immune comment that you just played.
But instead when he was asked at the briefing about it, he said that what he meant by that is that children don't get as sick as some adults do, that we know there have been children who have gotten really ill with this if they do have some kind of underlying illness.
And Facebook is clearly so troubled by the President's posts in that comment about children that they have removed a video that was on President Trump's Facebook Page of him making that comment that he believes children are virtually immune from this from his page tonight because they say it's misinformation, saying that a certain age group is immune from this when the doctors and the health experts say that's not the case.
That's notable because it's the first time I believe that Facebook has removed anything from the President's page and comes, of course, as you've seen, Twitter flagged several of his posts about COVID-19 as well. And what was really interesting today is you saw him in the Oval Office meeting with the Governor of Arizona, Doug Docey and he was praising his handling of the COVID-19 outbreaks and the surges that they had in their state.
But when he was asked about that idea that Docey had where they delayed the opening of schools in Arizona, the President didn't agree with that. But the Governor did that in part to help stop those surges in cases he said. But the President said he maintains he still thinks schools should be reopened as, of course, he's insisted for several weeks.
BURNETT: All right. Kaitlan, thank you very much.
OUTFRONT tonight Dr. Sanjay Gupta and Dr. Eileen Marty. She's an Infectious Disease Professor at Florida International University. Her state today hit a grim milestone, 500,000 cases.
So Sanjay, look, you spent an hour today with Dr. Anthony Fauci and you talked about a lot of things. You talked about vaccines. You talked about testing. You talked about it all and he sent me a very different message than the president. I find it disturbing because it was just consistent, right? It was on every single point you talked about, he seemed to be saying the opposite.
SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, he really did. He was pretty candid today and many of the same points that you just mentioning with Kaitlan, just what is the United States overall stature in the world when it comes to this. And you heard over the last couple of days, hey, we're not doing so bad. We're one of the worst, if not the worst, as you mentioned in the opening part of the show today. I mean, that's what Dr. Fauci said.
Testing, big deal. And you've heard over and over again from President Trump, look, maybe we're doing too much testing. But Dr. Fauci said today and it was probably the strongest I've heard him talk about this. He said, it is unacceptable where we are with testing, period, was how he put it. We're simply not doing enough. And then this point about immunity with children, I get the sense that
maybe the President doesn't know what the word immune means. It means when someone becomes infected. We know, we just did the calculations before your show tonight, Erin, that between 250,000 and 350,000 children have been infected by this virus. We know that children are less likely to become ill, very ill from this.
Although, as we start to open up schools and you get a lot of kids clustering together, there's no doubt that there's going to be an increase in infection rates and possibly an increase in serious illness as a result of this. It still be lower than adults, but that's a real concern, a real worry for parents.
BURNETT: So Dr. Marty, the President claims school should reopen because at this point he said about children are almost immune. I just want to look at the data from your state, a 21 percent increase in the number of children under the age of 17 testing positive for coronavirus and a 28 percent increase in the number of children being hospitalized. Obviously, these are upwards of extremely low numbers, which I think is important to emphasize but you have seen this big jump. So what does this tell you about children and how sick they get?
DR. AILEEN MARTY, INFECTIOUS DISEASE EXPERT, FLORIDA INTERNATIONAL UNIVERSITY: Well, having seen children sick with COVID-19 and having known now we've had several deaths of children with COVID-19, I think that it's, not to mention multi system inflammatory disease, where actually where I am in Miami-Dade, we have one-third of the Kawasaki type syndrome, the multi system inflammatory disease in the state. I think that we definitely see very serious illness in children.
But even that is not even the point. The point is this entire conversation is missing the most important point and that is when you said earlier in the show that children have high viral loads, let me translate that. That means they can transmit the virus to other people and schools don't just contain children. They contain adults doing everything for janitorial work to administrators, such as the principal to the teachers and everyone else and these children do not live at home alone and they do not get to school rarely unless they do walk to school.
[19:10:02]
But generally speaking, they're transported to school. It's an adult that transports them. There are many adults that can be infected by these children. That's the point.
BURNETT: So, Sanjay, when we look at the issue with all of these kids going back to school and I know many aren't, but in many places they are and places like New York where they have a positivity rate of 1 percent, that has been the metric, that they're fine to go back in some capacity as they are. But we have this issue around the country as its 5 million cases of who's spreading it and you asked Dr. Fauci about that, what is driving this new case load that we are seeing now since it's not testing and here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) FAUCI: The good news about COVID-19 is that about 40 percent of the
population has no symptoms when they get infected. That's good. I mean, you get infected you get no symptoms. The bad news for messaging is that 40 percent of the population get no symptoms.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And Sanjay, that is the bad news. Because you still have people saying, well, because 40 percent of people don't have symptoms, this isn't that serious. We are still hearing that and yes, it's often a political point, but we're still hearing it.
GUPTA: Right. And both things can be true. I mean, that's the thing is that we're capable of more abstract thinking. This is an unusual virus in this regard. Typically, when people are very contagious, they may be coughing and sneezing and not feeling well, hopefully, staying at home.
With this virus as we've known since really middle of February, people can spread this asymptomatically. There's even been some evidence that people are more likely to spread this before they develop symptoms. It makes it challenging, but it also makes the strategy in terms of how to deal with this, I think a little bit clearer. It's why people are recommended to wear masks when they go out in public.
You don't know because we don't have inadequate testing. You don't know for certain you're not harboring the virus in your body.
BURNETT: Right.
GUPTA: So how best to decrease the transmission, we all have a rule, wear a mask and I think that's the point Dr. Fauci was making.
MARTY: I'm going to weigh in on this.
BURNETT: Go ahead, Dr. Marty.
MARTY: I'm going to weigh in on this because I think there's a few points here. First of all, there's plenty of viruses, bacteria, et cetera, that people carry around with them, that do not make that individual ill, they can cause disease and others. Forty-five percent of people carry the horrible bacteria MRSA in their nose with no side effects. This is not an uncommon situation.
But with this virus, here's a few other points. Yes, maybe 40 percent of people do not have symptoms this time around. We don't know what's going to happen to those people the second time around.
Second of all, a fair percentage of those individuals who are not showing symptoms if you do serious testing on them, you do find that they have changes in their bodies that may have consequences for the future, neurologically, cardiologically pumped in their lungs, et cetera.
BURNETT: And I know that's important and people who've even gotten sick and gotten better, I mean, we don't know now whether some of these neurocognitive issues are could be lifelong. I mean, some of them are pretty terrifying and we've talked about that.
Sanjay, before we go, Alex Azar today, the Health and Human Services Secretary said the U.S. has seen the most historic advances in vaccine development over the last two weeks and that we're on track for many, many millions of doses possibly of a gold standard vaccine by the beginning of the year. Do you think that this is really possible that there is going to be possibly some silver bullet solution?
GUPTA: Well, I think we are certainly making a lot of progress with a vaccine. I mean, and I keep asking this has been a big topic of conversation. I'm making calls about this all the time, the sources and, frankly, I was surprised at the enthusiasm I was getting from some of these hardcore scientists about this, because typically it takes a long time to make a vaccine.
But even Dr. Fauci today said, look, we've had a remarkable pace when it comes to the innovation around the vaccine. Two points though, we still don't have it and we got to get data to actually show that it works, early promising data. But until we actually prove that this works in large populations of people, old and young, people with pre existing medical conditions, we won't know for sure.
Second thing, I don't know that I would describe it as a silver bullet. We don't know how protective it will be, it may require two shots, it may require these what are called adjuvants to sort of boost up the effectiveness of the vaccine and people got to take it, ultimately, if it does become available. So a lot of work to be done, but still promising, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Dr. Gupta, Dr. Marty, thank you both.
And next, it's the biggest event to take place since the pandemic started. A quarter of a million people about to descend on a small city in South Dakota from motorcycle rally, so why? Well, the Mayor is my guest and I'm going to talk to him about it.
And new private sector job numbers 10 times lower than expected and still no deal tonight on a stimulus package. Trump's trade adviser Peter Navarro is OUTFRONT.
And Kanye West, republican operatives with ties to Trump helping Kanye run for president. Could he be a Jill Stein-like spoiler in November?
[19:15:04]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:18:50]
BURNETT: Tonight, the nation's infectious disease experts are calling for a federal mask requirement. Infectious Diseases Society of America also urging the White House to 'require all individuals in the White House complex to wear a mask at all times when they are in the company of others, both for their own protection and to serve as role models for our country'. It's kind of incredible that somewhat at this point and that is still
needs to be said. We do know that in the 124 days since the CDC recommended all Americans wear masks, you can count on one hand the number of times that the President of the United States has worn one publicly. This as states in the northeast start to see a resurgence of cases again. Sara Sidner is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. TOM FRIEDEN, FORMER CDC DIRECTOR: The virus is winning and the American people are losing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT(voice over): The coronavirus teaching us a terrible lesson as some schools begin failing with students in person learning already disrupted in Cherokee County, Georgia after a second grade student tested positive within the first couple of days. Students and a teacher in that class now home for a 14 day quarantine.
In Georgia's largest school system, 260 school employees staying home due to positive test or exposure to the virus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ASHLEY NEWMAN, FORMER TEACHER: This is a community issue and we need to find a way to be able to get through to the higher ups and help them see that if the teachers aren't safe, then the students aren't safe and then the community is not safe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:20:09]
SIDNER(voice over): Dr. Anthony Fauci says if in-person learning happens, one way to mitigate the danger ...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FAUCI: Keep the windows open. That to me when you're dealing with a respiratory virus, it's simplicity, it's so obvious.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIDNER(voice over): But in the third largest school district in the country, Chicago Public School officials announcing the danger is too high to reopen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR LORI LIGHTFOOT (D) CHICAGO: But the fact of the matter is we are seeing an increase in cases combined with the trends that we're seeing, the decision is to start remotely. Makes sense for a district of CPS size and diversity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIDNER(voice over): An American Academy of Pediatrics study revealing minority children had much greater rates of infections than their white counterparts. In a study of a thousand children, 30 percent of black children and 46.4 percent of Hispanic children tested positive for the virus compared to 7.3 percent of white children.
Across the country, a small bit of hope, 45 of 50 states are seeing new case rates steadying or declining. But the death toll is still rising. Nearly 1,400 people reported dead in one day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRIEDEN: We need to focus on what's happening, 1,400 dead in one day is just a toll that is unacceptable and we need to up our game.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIDNER(voice over): New York City's Mayor announcing vehicle quarantine checkpoints after number show 20 percent of all new COVID- 19 cases in the city are coming from out of state travelers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO (D) NEW YORK: The checkpoints, I think, are going to send a very powerful message that this quarantine law is serious.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIDNER(voice over): In Jackson, Mississippi, a different move to try and slow the spread, a nightly curfew for a five day period announced by its Mayor.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SIDNER: And we are now hearing, remember that Georgia school district Cherokee County which had the one student that left a bunch of kids quarantine and a teacher in one class, well, we're hearing now that there are three more schools in that same county that have tested, someone has tested positive. That means that 61 students in total have to be quarantined.
We're also learning that in a Mississippi School District, the Corinth School District, there are several people the health department there says have tested positive for COVID-19 and so 100 plus students are having to quarantine because of those positive tests, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Sara, thank you.
And now, pictures of Sturgis South Dakota, motorcyclists are gathering there for what will be the largest public event in the United States since the coronavirus outbreak. At least a quarter million people, 250,000 are expected to attend the 80th annual Sturgis Motorcycle Rally. It officially starts on Friday. And OUTFRONT now is the Mayor, Mayor Mark Carstensen of Sturgis, South Dakota.
Mayor, look, I really appreciate your time. So we're showing video of the rally what it normally looks like and normally it's twice the size. You got half a million people there. You're expecting half that, but still an absolutely stunning number, 200,000 times, 250,000 times bigger than anything else we've seen in this country since the outbreak. So you felt the bikers were going to come whether you canceled it or not. I mean, tell me how you let this go ahead. What's your thinking?
MAYOR MARK CARSTENSEN (D) STURGIS, SOUTH DAKOTA: Correct. As the city council work forward through this decision process, it was very apparent through all the contacts that we made and input that we received is that many, many people are coming no matter what. And at that point in time, it made the best sense to make sure that we prepare as well as we can.
It's for several months now people have been visiting South Dakota. We're a small state, well under a million people across our entire state. But during tourism season, it becomes pretty active and we have quite a few people that have come over the last several months.
BURNETT: So I know you look at other things, I'm sure it's going to make you nervous, that rally in Tulsa, you had also the Juneteenth March there, you had protests all drawing large crowds. When cases started going up there, Tulsa's top health official said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRUCE DART, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, TULSA HEATH DEPARTMENT: Past few days, we've had almost 500 cases and we knew we had several large events over a little over two weeks ago which is about right. So I guess we just connect the dots.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So do you get worried, you got people saying at the same campground they're gathering together in town, they're at bars together, they're eating together? I mean, look, there's only so much you can do right? I mean, are you worried?
CARSTENSEN: Without a doubt and every rally brings a worry. A lot of the big venues are outside the city limits of Sturgis and it's something that obviously we don't have control over. Like I said, we've had tourists visiting to this point.
[19:25:00]
I mean, obviously, we have, I think, our daily cases in the State of South Dakota range from 45 to 80, but again we're a very small, small state and population. But without a doubt I agree, Erin, that yes there are certainly worries from a leadership, from staff and from all the residents in Sturgis.
BURNETT: So when your residents were asked about the rally, 60 percent of them said they'd rather not be held this year during the pandemic. What did you say to them? Just the people were going to come anyway that - I mean, what did you say to the people who live in town?
CARSTENSEN: The information that you're referencing, we sent out a survey to our residents and all were returned. The ones that were returned, it definitely was a large majority wanted to at least postpone the rally. Again, it was probably about a quarter to a 33 percent of our population that return them.
To be frank, there's a portion of our population does want to rally any year, which the rally does a lot for the city of Sturgis and for our community.
BURNETT: All right. Well, I appreciate your time, Mayor Carstensen. Thank you very much. I know all eyes will be on what happens, obviously, over the next several weeks. I know, obviously, you're not going to know right away. Thanks so much. I appreciate your time, sir.
CARSTENSEN: Thank you for having me.
BURNETT: OK.
And next, the coronavirus crisis gets personal, Dr. Anthony Fauci speaking out today on his own safety and the security of his family.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FAUCI: Getting death threats for me and my family and harassing my daughters to the point where I have to get security ...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And the Kanye West for president campaign getting a boost from Republicans with ties to Trump. Tonight, Kanye filing for president in two more states.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:30:45]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: New tonight 167,000 jobs were added to the private sector last month. That's according to payroll processing firm ADP. That number is almost ten times lower that the number economists were expecting. This comes as roughly 18 million Americans with officially unemployed. Congress appears to be at a standstill for a new relief package.
OUTFRONT now, White House trade adviser Peter Navarro.
Peter, look, I appreciate your time.
Look, 18 million, it's a stunning number. And the economy on an annual basis shrunk by a third last quarter, according to the most recent GDP report.
We know the Americans want the $600 per week unemployment benefits to continue and now we know Senate Majority Leader McConnell suggests he's open to supporting that $600 extension if the president does. The president has not been specific on a number.
Do you think he would do that, that he could agree to extend $600?
PETER NAVARRO, DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF TRADE AND MANUFACTURING POLICY: No, not my lane in the middle of this. We got a great team up on the Hill, and Mark Meadows, the chief of staff, the Steve Mnuchin, the treasury secretary. We've been encouraged over the last 24 hours on the willingness of both sides to move forward on the package.
What I do know is President Trump cares deeply about the working men and women of this country, and nothing is more important than getting America back to work.
So, let's -- let's see how the process goes. And I'd urge caution in terms of listening to sound bites going back-and-forth at this point. As far as I know, there's very serious negotiations going on.
The one thing I would tell you, Erin, what my lane is, is, for example, tomorrow, I'm going to get on Air Force One with the president, and we're going to go to what I view as the poster child for the success of the Trump tariff and trade policy. That's the Whirlpool Corporation. We're going to the pride of Clyde, Whirlpool. That's a 109-year-old company.
They went through hard times in the 2000s under the previous administration when predator companies from Korea were trying to take them out.
In 2018, President Trump put a 50 percent tariff on washers. And the result has been prosperity now at the nine different plants that Whirlpool operates, including in Clyde and other places in Ohio, like Finley and Marion.
BURNETT: Right.
NAVARRO: So, I think -- I think it's going to be a good thing. And to your point, look, there's so many people unemployed right now --
BURNETT: Right.
NAVARRO: -- I think the key to getting everybody back to work is going to be focus on manufacturing jobs.
Erin, we're losing a lot of jobs in the service sector which heavily impacted this.
BURNETT: Yeah.
NAVARRO: The hospitality, the leisure, gaming, sports, all of that. People are leaving the cities. They're going to have to find manufacturing jobs. So, that's been my focus as the assistant to the president for trade manufacturing and policy.
BURNETT: Which, look, I understand. Just to make the point here, though, obviously, you know, as you point out you can put people in those jobs and those jobs you're going the talk about tomorrow. We celebrate any jobs at this point.
But you need people to buy those washers and dryers. And this comes back to the point about how much money we should be supplies in the unemployment system.
I'm just curious as to our thoughts, Ernie Tedeschi, I don't know if you know him Peter. But he an economist in the Treasury Department under President Obama, and he did this fascinating analysis that showed that 70 percent of people who turned to work in June were making more from their unemployment benefits than their wages. So, in other words, it paid to stay home, and they didn't. They went back to work.
For whatever reasons, right, they wanted the job, they wanted the consistency. They wanted the investment.
NAVARRO: I think that's a rational calculation in many cases because people -- even though they might get paid more on unemployment today, tomorrow, next week, they're worried about the longer term security of their job. If they don't go back to work --
BURNETT: Yeah.
NAVARRO: -- businesses might to -- go away.
But, on the other hand, I think it's -- it's a concern. But I don't want to get in the middle. That's not my lane. I trust in Mark Meadows --
BURNETT: Right.
NAVARRO: -- Mnuchin and the president. And I do think we'll get to a good place.
But do you know what? This isn't the big thing about this. I know there's going to be probably a $1,200 payment to all the families in America. That's great. We're going to have to figure out how to make sure people don't get evicted. And I'm sure we're going to solve this unemployment issue.
[19:35:01]
But there's other things in that big package that we need to do. And one of the things we need to do -- for example, Lindsey Graham has a bill on personal protective equipment that would basically be buy American for that PPE. And that could be well part of the package as well because it's very --
BURNETT: OK.
NAVARRO: -- virus related. So, those are the kinds of things --
BURNETT: Yeah.
NAVARRO: -- that Congress has to start thinking about addressing structurally longer term, how to keep and create jobs for America. BURNETT: So, look, just so, you know, I'm switching topics a bit but
I'm doing it in something you wrote about. Obviously, you know, you got a lot of coverage for the op-ed that you wrote, Peter, the one about Anthony Fauci, that he's been wrong about everything I've interacted with him on.
And the reason I bring that up --
NAVARRO: Which is not the same thing about being wrong about everything which was misconstrued. It's just -- there were a few things we had disagreements on.
But I'll tell you this. Today, at 5:00, I spent about an hour with him on a Zoom call and 20 other scientists from NIH. We get along well. Happy to answer your question.
But he's on the team. I'm on the team. Basically, what his -- one of his missions is to encourage people to wear masks, and my mission to make sure we can manufacture them. And it's a nice division of labor as a rule.
BURNETT: Right. All right. That makes sense.
But what you, you know, obviously wrote in that op-ed, I want to ask you about something else --
NAVARRO: Sure.
BURNETT: -- he said today in that conversation he had Sanjay Gupta which was broadcast. Here's what he talked about. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Getting death threats for me and my family and harassing my daughters to the point where I have to get security is just -- I mean, it's amazing. I wouldn't have imagined in my wildest dreams that people who object to things that are pure public health principles are so set against it and don't like what you and I say, namely in the word of science, that they actually threaten you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NAVARRO: This is -- Erin, this is just so unacceptable behavior. And to me, it's so un-American.
I mean, what's always puzzled me from the onset of this crisis is that here were have the Chinese communist party effectively sending a virus over here -- whether it was done by accident or on purpose, I don't know -- but they send it over here and they basically kill over 150,000 Americans, cause trillions of dollars of damage --
BURNETT: OK.
NAVARRO: -- let me finish.
Instead of being angry at them, we're angry at each other. I've never seen America, and I go back and I'm 71 years old --
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: But you're the one who wrote an op-ed saying Anthony Fauci has been wrong on everything I've interacted with him on. Obviously, you're not making threats. But do you think that those words --
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: But those are fair -- those are fair policy disputes, Erin. What you just --
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: But how is that your lane and stimulus isn't?
NAVARRO: Well, that's another issue. We can talk to that.
But I'll tell you this. I mean, a lot of people in this administration -- I remember when Sarah Sanders went to the restaurant and basically got tossed out for being part of the Trump administration.
That kind of -- this -- look, here's the thing. This president wants to defeat the virus and unite this country around certain common principles, and that's what we need to do.
And you showed me -- look, Tony is a good -- great guy, right? There's just disagreements. And on things like, for example, the hydroxychloroquine, he has a strong point of view. There's as many doctors on the other side.
BURNETT: But there aren't. But there aren't as many doctors on the other side.
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: Yeah, there are. Yeah, there are. Yeah, there are.
BURNETT: Peter, first of all, first of all, on basic level, you're an economist, not a scientist. But, secondly, five studies, there aren't, there aren't. OK.
NAVARRO: Hang on. Let me say one thing.
BURNETT: Yeah.
NAVARRO: William Ford who -- excuse me, William O'Neill at the Ford Hospital System submitted with a group of scientists from Baylor a request for an emergency use authorization for hydroxychloroquine. Guess what? Over 500 doctors sent in a petition in support of request.
So I'm just saying there's a lot of people out there. And I don't really -- I mean, it's like past time for us to have a debate about hydroxychloroquine.
BURNETT: We shouldn't be. But let me just say, first of all, there's many millions of doctors in this country, there's five peer-reviewed studies that show it not to be true, there's Dr. Birx, there's Giroir, there's Dr. Fauci.
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: That study is a flawed study. But I need to do this, Peter, because what you're saying is irresponsible.
NAVARRO: All right. Let me say this to you, OK? I reach out to all your viewers.
Scott Adams -- you know Scott Adams, right? He's the guy who wrote the "Dilbert" cartoon. He did a beautiful ten-minute video on Twitter, and the thesis of the video is that CNN might be killing thousands because of the way they've treated that.
So, I would just ask -- I'll let Scott Adams' video be my defense on this --
BURNETT: OK. Can I just say something? I find that to be offensive because he's a comic strip writer. So, for you to say --
NAVARRO: Understood, understood.
BURNETT: OK, I just want to give you because I want to be clear.
[19:40:01]
I just said Dr. Fauci.
NAVARRO: Understood.
BURNETT: The person that the president of the United States has charged of testing --
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: Well, I said Dr. O'Neill.
BURNETT: -- Dr. Brett Giroir and --
NAVARRO: OK. William Grace (ph).
BURNETT: -- and Dr. Deborah Birx.
NAVARRO: Deborah Birx has not come out against hydroxychloroquine.
BURNETT: Yes she has. Here she is talking about the studies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS RESPONSE COORDINATOR: We know in the randomized controlled trials to date, and there's been several of them, that there's not evidence that it improves those patients' outcomes, whether they have mild/moderate disease or whether they're seriously ill in the hospital. (END VIDEO CLIP)
NAVARRO: But that's out of context. All she's talking about is what they call the RCT, not the observation studies.
But, Erin, I don't think it's a good use of our time to talk hydroxy. I really don't. We can talk China.
BURNETT: So, there's the deal --
NAVARRO: We can talk about --
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: -- I'll leave it there. I agree with you 100 percent and I enjoy conversations with you over the years. I just really -- I just believe that you should not be getting involved in this. I think that the scientists should.
NAVARRO: Well, here's my problem --
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: I don't think either one of us should be arguing over hydroxychloroquine studies.
NAVARRO: Let me tell you why I got involved in this, OK? I got involved in this because as a Defense Production Act coordinator, I'm literally sitting on 63 million tablets, 63 million tablets, at FEMA of hydroxychloroquine that would help possibly 4 million Americans stay alive.
And so, I've got that stake in the game. And everything I've read -- let's just say, Erin, please accept this. There's at least disagreement among doctors. You can argue about how many on one side or the other, but please let's understand that there is a dispute.
BURNETT: I do believe that doctors should make the ultimate decision. But I want to make the point from Brett Giroir, five randomized placebo controlled trials do not show any benefit to hydroxychloroquine. I'm quoting him.
NAVARRO: That's fine.
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: He then said, he then said, the evidence doesn't show it effective right now. I think we need to move on from that and talk about what is effective.
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: Let me say one more thing. I want to say this. This is a drug that's been around for over 60 years. It can't hurt you under a physician's guidance. It's used for pregnant women by the CDC.
If I'm wrong about hydroxychloroquine and people use it, nobody's going to die if they use it under a physician's guidance.
But if Giroir, Fauci and all the rest of them say hydroxy can hurt you or doesn't work, if they're wrong in a month, then thousands of people died on their watch. That's all I'm saying.
Mark that down today on August 5th or 6th or whatever it is. I'm losing count because working hard to keep Americans alive and employed.
But if I'm wrong, nobody dies. If they're wrong, thousands of Americans die.
BURNETT: Study after study after study.
All right. Peter --
NAVARRO: No, no, I can quote you as many studies --
BURNETT: No, you can't. You actually cannot do that.
NAVARRO: Yes, I can. Yes, I can.
BURNETT: You actually cannot.
NAVARRO: I can. I'll come back and we'll do that.
BURNETT: All right.
NAVARRO: But it's great talking to you. Remember I was here to talk about Whirlpool and jobs and I think --
BURNETT: And you did.
NAVARRO: -- we can stay focused on that.
BURNETT: And you did, and you did.
NAVARRO: And it's good seeing you again, Erin.
BURNETT: It's good to see you, and I do appreciate your conversation. Thanks, Peter.
NAVARRO: All right. Take care.
BURNETT: And I want to go now to Dr. Jonathan Reiner, medical adviser to the George W. Bush White House for eight years.
Dr. Reiner, you just heard Peter Navarro saying if he's right, thousands of lives would be saved and that maybe Giroir and Birx and Fauci are wrong.
DR. JOHNATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Yeah, well, he's wrong. No one should care what I care about economic or trade policy because to use Mr. Navarro's words, that's not any lane. And I don't give a damn what he thinks about clinical trials evaluating this agent because he's not qualified to have an opinion. Look, if he wants to discount, you know, Birx and Fauci and Giroir and
Hahn and Redfield, the FDA pulled the emergency use authorization in June. And in their letter explaining why they did it. They said three things.
They said, first of all, in the doses used, the drug doesn't have any antiviral affect. Number two, when they tried to replicate the early studies which suggested viral shedding was decreased by the drug, it couldn't be replicated. And finally and most importantly, five randomized clinical trials show the drug doesn't work. That's all that that counts.
This is science. You don't get to have an opinion about science. You only get to have facts. And he doesn't have facts. He doesn't have any idea what he's talking about.
This drug can hurt people. If used without careful EKG monitoring, this drug can cause fatal arrhythmias. The reason why this drug has been safe in some clinical trials is that it was studied carefully in clinical trials and most patients were monitored. That's much different than being out in the community.
BURNETT: All right. Well, I appreciate your time. I thank you very much.
REINER: Yeah, my pleasure.
BURNETT: We'll leave with Brett Giroir's words, we're wasting time that we could be testing and doing things that may be hugely effective.
[19:45:01]
REINER: Clinical trials are how we keep from fooling ourselves, Erin.
BURNETT: Yeah, thank you very much. I appreciate it, Dr. Reiner.
REINER: Sure.
BURNETT: And next, Republicans with ties to the president helping Kanye West run for president. What Trump is saying about tonight.
And that Beirut explosion being called an accident. But President Trump is not backing down on what he thinks could have caused it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Tonight, Kanye West getting an assist from Republicans, some with ties to Trump and his bid for the White House. Party operatives are helping West get his name on the general election ballot. But when asked about it tonight, President Trump says he has, quote, nothing to do with the efforts. So far, West has filed to appear on the ballots in at least nine states, including Ohio and Colorado just today.
One state where he got Republican help is Wisconsin. So why would Republicans be willing to help him there specifically? Well, let me just show you this. President Trump won that state by 0.8 percent. When you look at Gary Johnson and Jill Stein, they got 4.7 percent of the vote. So you understand the math, right? Kanye West just needs to do well enough, well, give it to Trump.
OUTFRONT now, Ben Jealous, president of People for the American Way and Foundation, and former president and CEO of the NAACP.
[19:50:00]
So, Ben, always good to have you on.
So, look, Kanye West, should Democrats be concerned about his run, right? Because these razor-thin margins in several states would make it possible that someone does not need to do really well to flip this whole election.
BEN JEALOUS, PRESIDENT, PEOPLE FOR AMERICAN WAY AND FOUNDATION: Look, what's clear is that Trump supporters are giving up on Donald Trump's ability to win, fair and square. And they're getting desperate and they're throwing whatever they can at the wall. And this week, they're throwing Kanye West running for president a the wall to see if it sticks.
BURNETT: So the woman who submitted the signatures needed to get West on that ballot in Wisconsin. I was just laying out the numbers. A Republican lawyer with ties to the Trump campaign.
So, you know, it's pretty clear there. I mean, do you have any doubt that Republicans are organizing to help him? Whether Kanye West is onboard with that or not is a totally separate question. It's more, are they doing it?
JEALOUS: Oh, look, if you read "The Times" article, it's clear in like every state, it appears that when the signatures get turned in, it's done by Republican operatives. And what we know is that this is a lot of work. It takes a lot of money, it takes a lot of effort, and the folks who know how to do it are partisans and Republican partisans with ties to Trump are doing this.
And they're doing it -- the only reason to do it at this stage is that it would help Donald Trump. There's no way for Kanye West to win. You know, he just can't get on to all, even if he can muster a real campaign.
BURNETT: Right.
JEALOUS: But Republican operatives can get him on the ballot in key states and try to drain votes and that seems to be the dirty trick here. There's even rumors that Roger Stone is involved. Obviously, Roger Stone would want people to think he's involved.
BURNETT: Yes.
JEALOUS: That's the kind of guy that he wants us to think that he is.
But, my god, if he is involved, that's all we need to know. BURNETT: But does Joe Biden need to pay attention to this specifically, right? "Washington Post" poll, you know, as you get younger, when you look at African-American voters, they are less, you know, confident of Joe Biden and his commitment to them. Right?
So there is an age group -- I mean, is this a concern for Joe Biden?
JEALOUS: Joe Biden needs to campaign hard and bring his message to black people of all ages, to brown people of all ages. The only risk to the Biden campaign right now is them not getting their message to those core demographics in our party. If they do that, he will win.
BURNETT: All right. Ben, thank you. Appreciate your time.
JEALOUS: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, incredible video from the very moment Beirut, the explosion happened. In this case, there was a wedding. This was just before the world changed there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:56:32]
BURNETT: Breaking news, President Trump not backing down from his unsubstantiated claim that the deadly Beirut explosion was an attack. This after his own defense secretary said it was likely an accident.
Arwa Damon is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Nothing prepared them for this -- 3,000 tons of ammonium nitrate exploding, sending a shock wave so strong, so vast, many who survived say they thought doomsday had arrived.
Prayers were lost to fear and chaos. Life's iconic moments swept away in an instant, and in its aftermath, an apocalyptic wasteland. The destruction on such a scale many here cannot even find the words to express the depth of their emotions.
With more than 135 dead, 5,000 wounded, and dozens of others still missing. There is shock, horror, and deep sorrow, coupled with anger and demands for answers.
How is it that such a massive amount of dangerous explosive material, confiscated in 2014, was restored in an unsecured warehouse? Despite multiple warnings from the head of customs?
The Lebanese government said that many port officials will be put under house arrest and --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): And to hold accountable those responsible and inflict on them the most severe punishment. DAMON: But there's little faith in this country's rulers, in a nation
where corruption dominates, and the people suffer at the hands of the political elite.
U.S. President Trump offered his condolences, floating the idea this may not have been an accident, but offering no proof.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It looks like a terrible attack.
DAMON: And then his own secretary of defense refuted that claim.
MARK ESPER, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Most believe that it was an accident, as reported. Beyond that, I have nothing further to report on that. It's obviously a tragedy.
DAMON: It is a tragedy. The largest in a chain of many, a failing economy, the spread of COVID-19 that have crippled this nation. Three hundred thousand people have been displaced. Damages are estimated to range from $10 billion to $15 billion.
How do you recover from something like this? Physically, emotionally, or as a nation?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: I can't imagine what it's like there where you are. I mean, how has this day been?
DAMON: It's been very difficult, Erin. People are still reeling from the shock of all of this. And, of course, it doesn't help when President Trump increases and fuels this speculation over what was actually behind this attack.
You have to remember that this is a region where conspiracy theories run rampant, where fiction can even lead to even more violence. And right now, what Lebanon and the population here need is support.
BURNETT: All right. Arwa, thank you very much. I hope you're doing okay there. I know it's hard to see the destruction. Just absolutely so tragic.
Thanks to Arwa and thanks to all of you for being with us.
"AC360" begins right now.
