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Erin Burnett Outfront
Trump "Enthusiastic" Over Unproven Botanical Extract to Fight Coronavirus, Says MyPillow Creator and Trump Ally; Dr. Birx Says U.S. Lockdown Should have been More Like Italy's: "People Weren't Allowed Out of their Houses"; Florida's Virus Death Toll Nearly Doubles in Last Month; U.S. Averages More than 1,000 Death for 21 Straight Days; New Saliva Test Could be in Use in a Few Weeks After Receiving Emergency Authorization from FDA. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired August 17, 2020 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:26]
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: I'm Wolf Blitzer. Thanks for watching. I'll be back in an hour for CNN's live coverage of day one of the Democratic National Convention.
Erin Burnett OUTFRONT starts right now.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next the breaking news, Dr. Deborah Birx says she wishes America's lockdown was as strict as Italy's, so why wasn't it? This as the President talks up another unproven treatment that's being pushed by the CEO of MyPillow.
Plus, breaking news, the President retweets disinformation about Joe Biden that his own intelligence agencies say is actually part of the Russian government's effort to take Biden down. And he says he's deeply worried about his country.
Why the former Ohio Governor, John Kasich, lifelong Republican is speaking out tonight on Joe Biden's behalf at the Democratic National Convention. He's my guest. Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight the breaking news, the Trump administration's lockdown didn't go far enough. That is the admission tonight from Dr. Deborah Birx of the coronavirus task force, who is now saying she wishes America's lockdown would have been much more strict.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS RESPONSE COORDINATOR: I wish that when we went into lockdown, we looked like Italy. But when Italy locked down, I mean, people weren't allowed out of their houses. Americans don't react well to that kind of prohibition.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Wow. I mean, out of their houses and you had to get a certificate to go to the grocery store, really different than anything that happened here at any time and any place. So why didn't it happen? And how is it possible now to have regret on something so basic that could have saved some of the 170,317 American lives lost so far?
We'll stop for just another moment here, 20,000 of those deaths just happened in the past 18 days, as the number of known cases tonight also now tops 5.4 million. And yet today, no regrets from President Trump. He has never, as of yet, expressed any except for self- congratulations on America's handling of the virus. Instead, today he was enthusiastic about another unproven treatment for the virus. This time an extract from a plant called oleander and it's all because of this man.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE LINDELL, INVENTOR OF MYPILLOW: Hello. I'm Mike Lindell, Inventor of MyPillow. Just like you, I had problem sleeping. I tried every pillow out there and nothing works.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: That's right, the man behind MyPillow. The infomercial star tells CNN that he met with Trump back in July, they talked about the unproven treatment and according to Lindell, the President was enthusiastic about this supplement from a plant. It does come from a poisonous plant. Here's the President today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oleandrin, have you heard of that as possible therapy for coronavirus?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I've heard of it. Yes, go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you pressed the FDA to approve it?
TRUMP: No, I haven't. I haven't.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it something you would support?
TRUMP: Is it something that people are talking about very strongly? We'll look at it. We'll look at it. We're looking at a lot of different things.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: We don't know who's talking about it very strongly. I mean, as of tonight, there is no public information to show that oleander has been tested on coronavirus patients in any way shape or form. Yet, according to Lindell, Trump told him he wanted the FDA to 'do its course'. So why would the President even be getting involved in this? I mean, why would he even want the FDA to spend time looking into a product he heard about from a donor whose expertise is in pillows?
Look, this should alarm us all because the administration should be leaving any discussion about potential cures to the doctors and the researchers. A big time donor who always seems to be at the President side should not be able to weigh in. Mike Lindell though campaign rallies to the White House Christmas party, he spoke at a coronavirus task force briefing actually back in March, even though, of course, he does not have a science background. He was at Trump's rally in Tulsa. And even today he had attended Trump's event in Minnesota.
Now, oleander is an untested plant. It is just the latest unproven and potentially dangerous cure that Trump has opened the door to publicly. I mean, we all remember hydroxychloroquine.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We've had tremendous response to the hydroxy.
That's a game changer if that's the case.
Here's my evidence, I get a lot of positive calls about it.
What do you have to lose? Take it.
If things don't go as planned, it's not going to kill anybody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: The President also told Americans, of course, that injecting themselves with disinfectant could be worth looking into.
[19:04:57]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And then I see the disinfectant would knocks it out in a minute, one minute, and is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Cleaning of your insides with disinfectant. Several states reported increases in calls to poison control centers after that specific comment you just heard. Look, potential treatments can be a matter of life and death that has been proven in the case of hydroxychloroquine.
That is why the President has a team of experts and scientists who are the ones who should be making all these decisions. Those are the ones who should be listening to, not a donor whose expertise is in selling pillows.
Jeremy Diamond is OUTFRONT live outside the White House. And Jeremy, what more do you know about this meeting that we now understand occurred between Trump and Lindell and about their relationship overall? I mean, I just showed them together in a lot of places, but clearly they do have a relatively close relationship.
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Mike Lindell has been a supporter of the President years now and they've become friends in a way. And certainly Mike Lindell continues to be an advisor to the President's campaign. He currently chairs his campaign in the state of Minnesota which has been a focus for the Trump campaign.
And look, Mike Lindell were told met with the President in July to tout this unproven treatment for coronavirus oleandrin. We should note, of course, that there are no studies involving oleandrin and coronavirus that have been published in any, any at all peer reviewed medical journals. And so as of now, this is a completely unproven notion here.
But Mike Lindell, we are told, who has, of course, no medical background, no medical expertise is trying to get this approved by the FDA, at least as a dietary supplement. In which case if that did happen, they still would not be able to tout any medical claims as it relates to this supplement. But, of course, this is reminiscent, as you've said, Erin, of the President's repeated promotion of hydroxychloroquine.
And in that case as well, the President got much of his information about that from questionable sources, as well as some Fox News hosts like laura Ingraham who came to the White House to try and promote this drug with the president and putting other doctors who did not have the kind of peer reviewed scientific medical evidence to back up their claims.
One note of caution, though, I would say is that the President so far has not gone so far as he did with hydroxychloroquine. He is not promoting this drug publicly. This is something that we learned, of course, from a private meeting that Mike Lindell said the President was enthusiastic. As you saw on camera today, the President was asked about it.
He certainly didn't completely dismiss it out of hand, but he also wasn't promoting it in the way that he was with hydroxychloroquine.
BURNETT: All right. Just saying they're looking at it very strongly. All right. Thank you very much, Jeremy.
And I want to go now to Dr. Sanjay Gupta and Dr. Jonathan Reiner, Director of the Cardiac Cath Lab at GW who advised the White House medical team under President George W. Bush. So Sanjay, we found out about this meeting from Lindell and Lindell is very open. The purpose, he said was to talk about this drug or this, I'm sorry, plant extract and he said the President was enthusiastic, which the President did seem to indicate today, although obviously not pushing it as a game changer or a cure in the way he had with hydroxychloroquine.
But there isn't, as far as we know, any peer reviewed anything on this. Is there any science to support it?
SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: No. There's really not. I mean, this sort of came out of nowhere, so here we go again with this type of storyline. There was one preprint, something that wasn't peer reviewed, looking at this substance oleander with the virus in monkey kidney cells, so not humans, not in the body, but rather in a lab in these particular cells that were from monkeys. And that was something that they said well could potentially inhibit
the virus. Lots of things inhibit the virus and a test tube, bleach inhibits the virus in a test tube really means nothing. So it's a lot of discussion about something that has absolutely no evidence around it right now.
We do know that it can be harmful. I mean, it can be a poison. I mean, White Oleander for people who may remember that book or that movie was the story of somebody actually poisoning and killing somebody using this substance from this plant. So what we know of it is dangerous.
So I hope that we move on from this topic quickly. I hope that he doesn't put anything behind it because it's potentially problematic.
BURNETT: Yes. I mean, you got to hope that that's the case, Dr. Reiner. Does it concern you though that the President would even entertain this sort of a suggestion and be enthusiastic about it from somebody who - and I don't say it to be humorous in any way but this is a person who sells pillows, that is what he is good at. He is not a scientist. His expertise is not in drugs or in coronavirus.
JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: It bothers me that the President sidelined people like Anthony Fauci and Deborah Birx and gives precious time to, again, purveyors of pillows and bed linens.
[19:10:03]
Look, this is a terrible distraction and we have an enormous amount of work to do. And look, in prior administrations, every second of the President's schedule was precious or the Vice President's schedule. And their time was managed really exquisitely.
The fact that somebody can get time to pitch some really outlandish scheme like this, a business of which he actually has apparently a financial stake in is mind boggling. But we have work to do and this is a terrible distraction.
BURNETT: Right. I do think it's interesting what you say that the point should be that the President would entertain this, would have this meeting, would spend time on this during this. As we say, we now have more than 170,000 Americans who have died.
Sanjay, this also comes today, Dr. Deborah Birx talks about regrets which, as I pointed out, the President says he has none, because of the U.S. response has been so excellent as he says. She wishes America's lockdown look like Italy's and she said, "I mean, people weren't allowed out of their houses. Americans don't react well to that kind of prohibition."
But, Sanjay, she pointed out how you could only go to the grocery store once every two weeks, you had to have a certificate to do so. And I remember talking to someone in the epicenter at the time, it was sort of hard at the time to even imagine and the depression and sadness in her voice was terrifying. Well, a few weeks later, we learned a little bit about what that was like. But from an actual practical perspective, Sanjay, what could the
President of the United States have done? Could he have made the U.S. lockdown look more like Italy?
GUPTA: Yes. I mean, I think we are capable of doing that. I think, Ambassador Birx's point is that the American people just wouldn't do it I think is what she was saying. But I remember, Erin, exactly when you were talking about, we were looking at Italy and saying, well, that's Italy, that's not going to happen here. That was sort of the feeling here, the sentiment even as we saw this happen and play out in other countries around the world, we kept thinking it's simply not going to happen here.
I mean, that way of thinking was empowered, I think, by our leaders. We never locked down to be clear. I mean, maybe 50 percent locked down of what Italy did and we did it very late. So we did an inadequate therapy and we did it late and that's the problem, that's the consequences that we see right now on the right side of the screen in terms of the numbers.
What I will tell you though is we have learned some things, simple mask wearing, 95 percent adoption of mask wearing would make it a much different picture within several weeks. And yet I live in a state, Erin, as you well know, where that's not even being done. As kids are going back to school, there's not a statewide mass mandate and a lot of the school districts are letting these kids go back to school without masks on.
It is mind boggling. I mean, how many clues do we need in order to do the right thing? Apparently, we still don't have enough.
BURNETT: Dr. Reiner, Dr. Ashish Jha of Harvard today, his quote, "I think it's pretty fair to say we have the worst response of any major country." The former FDA Commissioner, Dr. Margaret Hamburg, called the U.S. response disappointing. She went on to basically say, "We could have been so much better prepared than we were by any single assessment we should have done better."
I mean, why? Why were we not prepared? Even at any level, Dr. Reiner, as Sanjay says, there was still this sort of, well, that's Italy, not here. That's Wuhan, not here.
REINER: Yes. So there was some tragic mistakes in how our tests were constructed and that was coupled with a administration that had an essential conflict of interest, putting down the pandemic and shutting down for a sufficient amount of time, as Sanjay said, ran counter to the President's reelection campaign.
So from the very start, the President was itching to open. We closed down in about the third week in March and very shortly thereafter, the President was talking about opening churches for Easter. So from the very beginning, there was an essential conflict between the people who were running the pandemic response and the scientists.
But we were lousy when it came to testing. It took about 50 days to test the meager 20,000 people. The President never really embraced wearing masks. We wasted crazy amount of time talking about drugs like hydroxychloroquine, the CDC created a great pathway for closing and then opening and then it was abandoned, a festival of errors.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you both very much. I appreciate your time.
And next, growing questions about this image that came out of Georgia this weekend as Sanjay was talking about Georgia. Take a look at this. It sure doesn't look like that of the summer of 2020. As Florida has nearly doubled its death count in just one month.
Plus, breaking news, the Republican Attorney General of Ohio has asked Trump to postpone changes at the U.S. Postal Service saying it would create chaos and put the legitimacy of the entire government at risk. That's a Republican Attorney General, more on that coming up.
[19:15:01]
And Michelle Obama, tonight we are going to hear from her at the DNC live.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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BURNETT: Breaking news, Florida nearly doubling its death toll from the coronavirus in just the past month. It comes as the United States has averaged more than 1,000 reported deaths for 21 straight days. Nick Watt is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT(voice over): A college party in Georgia, you can't see any masks, not a lot of distance. Crowds also snapped outside student bars in Alabama. And four COVID clusters uncovered this weekend at UNC Chapel Hill where classes resumed one week ago. UNC will now from Wednesday shift to online-only for all undergraduates.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDY SLAVITT, FORMER ACTING ADMINISTRATOR, CENTER FOR MEDICATE AND MEDICAID SERVICES: You're gonna get cases at colleges, there's no question about it. The question is whether you can stop at five cases or have 500 cases.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:20:00]
WATT(voice over): While the COVID-19 death toll in the U.S. just passed a staggering 170,000.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM FRIEDEN, FORMER CDC DIRECTOR: COVID is now the number three cause of death in the U.S. (END VIDEO CLIP)
WATT(voice over): Young people are not immune. Infection rates among under a teens rose steadily from March through July, says the CDC. Meanwhile, more evidence that minority communities are hardest hit. A study just found that for example, in Ohio, 13 percent of people are black but 31.8 percent of hospitalized COVID patients were black.
In Virginia, less than 10 percent of people are LatinX but more than 36 percent of hospitalized COVID patients were LatinX.
And the latest on testing, experts have long said we should be doing 5 million a day. Here's President Trump late April.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Well, we're going to be there very soon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATT(voice over): But we have never achieved even one fifth of that 5 million goal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're probably missing eight out of 10 people who are contagious.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATT(voice over): And since July, the average number of tests every day has actually fallen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Supplies aren't being shipped to places that can test. I think is part of a strategy not to count how many people are infected.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATT(voice over): But a newly authorized quick and cheap saliva test could be a game changer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNE WYLLIE, ASSOC. RESEARCH SCIENTIST IN EPIDEMIOLOGY, YALE SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: We think this test can actually give same day results in most situations and that alone can allow it to help guide activities and reopening strategies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WATT: And some more potentially encouraging news early results from a number of studies suggest that even after having just mild symptoms, people will have antibodies and cells inside them to fight this virus. Now, they could last for months and so this is encouraging because it means that reinfection is less likely and also that a vaccine might work for little bit longer, Erin.
BURNETT: Yes. Look, it's fascinating. OK. So Nick, thank you.
I want to, on that point that Nick's making, I want to go to Dr. Richard Besser, the former CDC Acting Director under President Obama. So Dr. Besser, I want to ask you about that immunity but also something else Nick said first that the saliva test that he brought up that what the FDA has now given granted, emergency use authorization, cheap to produce, you can test many samples at once, you get results in three hours.
One Yale epidemiologist behind the test said this could be ready to go in a few weeks. The White House testings are, says it's a quote game changer. When you look at how many people that can test, how quickly the results are and how accurate they are, would you say it's a game changer?
DR. RICHARD BESSER, FMR. CDC ACTING DIRECTOR UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA: Yes. I'm concerned because we've consistently seen over promising and under delivering. And I think it would be a good idea to tamp down a little bit the expectations around this. Clearly, we need new testing. We need to be able to scale up testing so that everyone who needs testing, who wants testing can get it, schools and colleges can use testing as part of their strategy, we can make sure that all communities are getting what they need.
But there have been some other saliva tests that have not performed as predicted and I think it tends to be a better approach to under promise and over deliver on something like this. But if it does deliver as they're describing, that would be terrific, but let's wait and see.
BURNETT: OK. So now I want to ask you about the other thing he brought up which is these new studies on T-cells and B-cells which I'm trying to shorthand it, so pardon me, but basically, not antibodies but cells that remember a virus that got you sick. So they sort of can reactivate and power up to fight it if it comes back, so we have that coming out.
A few weeks ago though, we had a study that showed people lose antibody immunity just weeks after infections. They're saying, well, look, if you had it in April or May you get tested, now it's going to show you never had it but you did, which means you could get it again. So what are we supposed to think here?
BESSER: Yes. This is science. This is what science looks like and bits of pieces, different studies showing different things. Our immune system is absolutely unbelievable and there are different components so that the antibodies that are out there circulating in your blood, that they see a virus, they'll go in and it'll attack that virus.
And then we have our T-cells and B-cells that remember that virus and viruses that look like it and they crank out antibodies and other factors when a virus comes on board. What's going on now as scientists are trying to figure out, OK, what combination of antibodies and cells will tell you you're protected. The CDC today reported out that there's so far no evidence of reinfection. So we're six months plus into this and so far they haven't identified people who have had this infection and then have gotten it again. They found some people who have low levels of virus that linger around, but not anyone who has been reinfected.
[19:25:02]
And that's really good news in terms of vaccine development, because a vaccine works by mimicking a natural infection. And if you don't get any protection from a natural infection, it'd be highly unlikely you'd be protected by the vaccine.
BURNETT: So I guess it opens the door to a vaccine, perhaps, really working. But again, I guess I realize we don't know what we don't know, but it does raise so many questions but it open some hopes as well. Yes.
BESSER: It's encouraging, yes.
BURNETT: And encouraging. Dr. Besser, I appreciate your time. Thank you as always.
BESSER: Pleasure.
BURNETT: And next, more breaking news. President Trump claiming the only way that he is going to lose is if the election is rigged. That's what he actually said. Those words came out of his mouth.
Plus, former lady Michelle Obama speaking at tonight's DNC about the Joe Biden she knows personally.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER FIRST LADY: I know Joe. He is a profoundly decent man guided by faith.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:29:50]
BURNETT: Breaking news, President Trump spreading Russian disinformation to try to discredit Joe Biden and I say that because this is information that Trump's own intelligence agencies have labeled. They have told them they have labeled it propaganda, because they say it is intentionally designed to spread false or misleading information about Biden.
[19:30:07]
And yet the president of the United States is out there pushing it out.
Our senior national security correspondent Alex Marquardt is OUTFRONT.
So, Alex, explain here what propaganda is President Trump now amplifying?
ALEXANDER MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the president has now gone for the disinformation that he himself is generating, like mail-in ballots are going to be leading to the most rigged election ever, to actual Russian-backed disinformation that has been labeled such by the intelligence community.
He has retweeted an account that put out a recording of a telephone call at 2016 between the former Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko and former Vice President Joe Biden which President Trump supporters say points to the fact that Vice President Biden got a prosecutor fired in order to help his son Hunter. Now, there's no evidence of that. This prosecutor was internationally condemned and considered corrupt. And so, that has been debunked and Poroshenko has said that these calls were what he called fabricated.
And then ten days ago, we heard from the top elections official in the intelligence official who pointed to this example in particular as an example of Russia pushing disinformation to denigrate the Biden campaign -- Erin.
BURNETT: So, now, it was about a week ago, Alex, I believe, right, that the U.S. intel committee had come out with the warning, right, that Russia was trying to denigrate Biden, that it was very specifically to denigrate Biden, and now here you go. President Trump helping them, sort of exhibit A.
MARQUARDT: Yeah. In that statement from the office of director of national intelligence on August 7th, there's literally one person's name that is mentioned in that report. It's Andriy Derkach, a Ukrainian parliamentarian that the Intelligence Committee says is linked to these Russian-backed efforts. They say Russia is using a range of measures to primarily denigrate former Vice President Biden.
For example, pro-Russia Ukrainian parliamentarian Andriy Derkach is spreading claims about corruption, including through publicizing leaked phone calls to undermine former Vice President Biden's candidacy.
So the one concrete example that they are pointing to that Russia is doing to denigrate the Biden campaign is now being spread by the president himself -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right, thank you very much. I appreciate it, Alex.
And now, there is more breaking news tonight. President Trump also trying to sow doubt about the validity of the election. Let's just play what he just said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The only way we're going to lose this election is if the election is rigged. Remember that. It's the only way we're going to lose this election. So we have to be very careful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Talking there about voting by mail.
And it comes as Ohio's Republican attorney general urges President Trump to postpone changes at the U.S. postal service until after the election. The warning from the Republican attorney general is that they will, quote, create a sense of chaos and uncertainty. These are changes that the president wants that have led to growing concerns that they're an attempt to slow down mail delivery because President Trump is opposed to mail-in ballots.
The president, though, says it's totally the opposite.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I have encouraged everybody, speed up the mail, not slow the mail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OK. So he says he wants to speed up the mail. Well, then why would his hand-picked postmaster general unveil a major restructuring plan for the agency ahead of in unprecedented election where we need all these mail-in ballots, right, and it's a presidential election. But the proposal is to do this before then and they would cut staff hours, ban extra trips to get mail delivered on time, they would schedule nearly 700 high volume mail processing machines across the country for actual reduction. It sounds really bizarre and doesn't add up at all, doesn't seem to.
Let me give you a little detail about these machines, because two technicians, we looked into this, they tell us some of them can sort up to 30,000 mail items and you just need two employees to run them. So actually they do things faster and with fewer people. They estimate it would take up to 30 employees to do that work by hand.
Now, something else to remember, we know the president does not want the United States postal service to get $25 billion in funding to expand vote by mail because he says, well, he made it pretty loud and clear why last week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Now, they need that money in order to have the post office work so it can take all of these millions and millions of ballots. If they don't get those two items, that means you can't have universal mail-in voting because they're not equipped to have it.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BURNETT: OK. So he doesn't want universal mail-in voting. Why would he not want it? Well, I don't know, he likes polls. Take a look at this one, 72 percent of Democrats say they are very or somewhat likely to vote by mail in November and only 22 percent of Republicans say that.
OUTFRONT now, the Democratic attorney general of Washington state, Bob Ferguson. He is one of several state attorney generals considering suing the Trump administration over the U.S. Postal Service.
[19:35:04]
And I appreciate your time, Attorney General.
And I know now you and the Republican attorney general of Ohio saying doing these changes before the election could sow chaos. When you hear the president come out just moments ago, just before and I spoke, and say the only way that he will lose this election is if it is rigged. He just said that in the past hour, what's your reaction to that?
BOB FERGUSON (D), WASHINGTON STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, Erin, first, thanks for having me on. Number two, my reaction is a reaction I have frequently when I hear the president, just speaking untruth. This is a good example of it.
What I would emphasize and a lot of folks are trying to emphasize is, the way in which the president loses the election is by people voting, so we really encourage folks all across the country to do precisely that.
BURNETT: So you're debating legal action. What is going to determine whether you actually take legal action? And would any action actually have an effect on what his proposals are, right, these changes to get rid of these machines and cut the funding? You know, that would all happen in a way that would prevent a lot of people from getting those mail-in ballots.
FERGUSON: Right. Those are good questions and important ones.
So, first, Erin, I've now filed over 70 lawsuits against this administration, many with other attorneys general across the country. We have 31 decisions in those cases and we've won 30 of those 31.
So I bring lawsuits that are good lawsuits and we have good legal arguments, and when Washingtonians are harmed.
And, look, if you're slowing down the postal service, that doesn't just impact elections which, of course, are crucial, but it also impacts seniors who need medications, veterans who get most of their prescriptions from the V.A. through the mail. That impacts those individuals as well. So, we're looking carefully at the legal arguments, working with attorneys general across the country. We have good claims, we would bring them.
BURNETT: OK. So the president says that these changes that he's putting out are actually to improve the Postal Service long term. Here his argument is.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
TRUMP: I jokingly say, but it's true, I want to make the Post Office great again, okay? This has been one of the disasters of the world, the way it's been run. It's been run horribly. And we're going to make it good.
Now, what am I supposed to do, let it continue to run badly? If you fix it, they say, oh, he's tampering with the election. No, we're not tampering.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: You know, I want to make the point again, the Republican attorney general, your colleague in Ohio, he's saying that this is not the time and that this will sow chaos and he's against it.
But the president's point when you look at the numbers, $8.8 billion lost by the U.S. Post Office last year, billions in every single year of the past decade. The last year did not lose money was 2006.
Does the president have a point that this thing is a disaster in how it's run?
FERGUSON: No. I mean, look, I think it's pretty apparent and it sounds like my colleague in Ohio nailed it when he said, hey, this is not the time to engage in a full frontal assault on an institution, a service provided to the people that is instrumental and critical to their lives.
Look, we spoke to a veteran earlier today who is dependent upon the mail to get critical medications for his health. So, no, we all know what the president is trying to do here, sow confusion, slow down the mail service. Washington state is an all vote by mail state, that's how virtually everybody in our state votes. So, it's critical that we make sure our elections run smoothly, people can get their ballots on time and get them in on time, so their vote is counted, which, of course, is central to our democracy.
BURNETT: So the prime minister of New Zealand, right, she has been, you know, congratulated around the world for handling the coronavirus. They get a few more cases and she shuts the whole country down again. She doesn't mess around. But she has now delayed the country's national election for four weeks from September to October because of this re-emergence of virus, right?
I just want to make everyone understand this is not virus like we have it in the United States, right? It's nothing compared to that. But she is going to delay this saying difficulties with campaigning, voter safety.
We have heard President Trump float delaying the election before. Do you think that this sort of gives him precedent to suggest this in a more serious way? FERGUSON: No, absolutely and emphatically not, Erin. I'm no expert on
the laws of that country. I do have some familiarity with the laws of our country and the Constitution in our country and that does not allow and does not give that power to move an election to a president.
And for what it's worth, a number of months ago when there were rumors of this going around, I asked my legal team to take a look at it. And in doing that legal analysis, they came back and have a very clear he has no such power. If he attempts to move the election, he would literally see Washington state in court the following day.
BURNETT: And I should point out to, of course, they have a parliamentary system, which, you know, as you point out, is very different in many ways and (INAUDIBLE) of the way elections in those systems.
Thank you very much, Attorney General Ferguson. I appreciate your time.
FERGUSON: Thank you very much.
BURNETT: All right. Next, it is night one of the DNC. The Republican Former Governor John Kasich is going to be speaking. That's part of a big theme tonight. He is my guest, going to talk about his message and why he is not just standing up against Trump but for Biden, ardently so.
[19:40:06]
And the former First Lady Michelle Obama, she will be speaking tonight, speaking her mind. All eyes of course will be on the former first lady.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Night one of the Democratic national convention kicking off, and really our coverage here begins in just a few moments. You're going to have these speeches coming fast and furious tonight, including Michelle Obama, Senator Bernie Sanders, and tonight there's going to be a big effort to sway anti-Trump Republicans. You're going to see several people speaking like that including the former Republican governor of Ohio, John Kasich, along with three Republican women added to the lineup just today. So, this is a theme, right?
You're going to see former candidate for California governor, former New Jersey governor, former congresswoman all speaking for Joe Biden along with John Kasich, the former governor of Ohio, who is with me now.
As you get ready for your speech, Governor Kasich, what are we going to hear in your speech tonight?
JOHN KASICH, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you know, I'm going to try to make an appeal, Erin, that we should put country ahead of party.
[19:45:00]
And I wish you could see my email and my texts and -- you know, it's just that people are so locked down. We've become so tribal that it seems a lot like we can't even listen to one another.
Erin, really it's just remarkable. And I found throughout my career, political career and my lifetime that I don't have to agree with somebody on everything, that there's things that I can search for and through that we can build a deep relationship.
I want to give you one example. Ron Dellums who was a very liberal member of the Congress. He was mayor of Oakland, California, for a while. His wife sent me a note and said in an interview that Ron and I -- that I became a great friend of his in the gym because I became more than one-dimensional.
And we worked together on some military reform and he listed me as one of his two people that had -- you know, were great friends of his and that he really missed. Now, Ron and I didn't agree on a lot of things and he'd be the first one to tell you that, but we forged a great friendship and were able to be constructive in terms of what we did.
So what I would say, Erin, I want to convince people that it's okay to be a Republican and to vote for a Democrat. It's perfect to put country ahead of political party and that we -- only great things happen in America when we get along, not when we're fighting, Erin. So, it's going to be pretty simple.
I don't want to give the whole thing away or you won't watch it. I know you'll be watching.
BURNETT: No, I understand your point, and I know you've been talking about this and it came out of great consideration.
KASICH: Yeah.
BURNETT: And looking in your heart.
KASICH: And conscience.
BURNETT: When you talk about the division in the country, Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is fund-raising off of comments you made tonight. You suggested in an interview that she did not represent the Democratic Party and she is up in arms.
She says in a fund-raising email just sent out moments ago so you probably haven't even seen it. So here's the quote, I'm looking down.
We're glad that John Kasich has recognized the importance of supporting a Biden/Harris ticket but let's be extremely clear about something. An anti-choice, anti-worker Republican does not get to decide who represents the Democratic Party, period.
She will have a minute to speak later on this week at the convention. What do you say to her? KASICH: Right. Well, I'm not trying to represent the Democratic
Party, I'm just trying to talk about unity and kind of what I said is she gets an oversized amount of attention but doesn't have that kind of oversized policy chops.
And that's fine. Listen, she works hard, she's very articulate and I don't denigrate here at all, no way. But, look, I'm there to try to tell people, again, think about country. Is this the path we want to go down of disruption and fighting and all those kind of things, or is there a better way to address the big problems?
The other thing is, Erin, that I've noticed and I hope you've noticed this too, it's gone from politicians fighting with one another to families fighting with one another and neighbors fighting with one another and friends fighting with one another over what? And I swear to you if I came out and said I was an atheist, it would get a lot less attention than it does when I'm going to say I'm going to say some good things about a Democrat at a Democrat convention.
It's kind of crazy, particularly when we admired people like Abraham Lincoln because he could assemble a team of rivals where they could learn from one another and save the union.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Governor, I appreciate your time. Good luck tonight. Obviously, you know, people across this country are going to be watching you and others on this first night with the speeches. So thank you.
I want to bring in now Karen Finney, former communications director at the DNC who is also Hillary Clinton's senior spokesperson in 2016 and our own political director, David Chalian.
So, David, here we are at the beginning of this unprecedented convention. This is not what any of us expected. I was thinking about this earlier today, thinking is this really happening this way? And yet here we are.
So, Governor Kasich wants to win over Republicans for Biden. You know, maybe some who really don't want to vote Trump but haven't put voice to that. We're going to hear other former Republicans who are now for Trump, I'm sorry, speaking tonight.
But our new CNN poll shows that Trump has solidified Republican support since June. Republicans is less than a quarter of voters but 85 percent of conservatives support Trump and that is up nine points from June. Biden dropped from 20 percent to 13 percent among conservatives.
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yeah.
BURNETT: So what do you think the Republican speakers tonight could possibly accomplish given those numbers?
CHALIAN: Well, I think what those numbers show, Erin, is the tribal nature of our politics that Governor Kasich was talking about. As we get closer to an election, I think people sort of go to their team that they're comfortable with and familiar with.
And, listen, I don't think anybody -- I don't think in the Biden campaign would say, hey, we're putting John Kasich on because we think he can move huge swaths of Republicans to Joe Biden's corner. I don't think that's the goal here.
I think it is to create a permission structure for Republican-leaning independents, for wavering Republicans who may have been with Trump four years ago but are weary of the behavior that we have observed the president over the last three and a half years.
[19:50:10]
It's somebody who can sort of give them a sense of you can go and cast your ballot for the Democrat. This is with two big outside groups spending a ton of money on Republican voters against Trump or Lincoln Project, these Republican groups are very focused on going with a lot of advertising to move some of these votes, as well. I don't think this is the critical component to Biden's path of 270 --
BURNETT: Yeah.
CHALIAN: -- but, obviously, it is part of the composite that the Biden campaign wants to put forward this week. It's not just a base election. It's not just trying to win over independents. Every piece counts and now in this environment, that includes some Republicans coming over to his side.
BURNETT: That's part of it but the big moment will be Michelle Obama that people around this country will tune into. I imagine a lot of people of both parties are going to be watching. She is, of course, a celebrity in her own right now. What do you expect to hear from her?
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I'll tell you, I'm so excited to hear her, because, you know, she's completely untethered. Her husband is not running for president. She's not the current first lady. She can say whatever she wants and we know that, you know, in 2016, she brought the house down.
So I expect we'll hear more of the same from what I understand it will be very personal. I think she will speak to this critical moment in time and that really is so critical to this idea of unity and the ways that people have come together to take to the streets in the aftermath of the murder of George Floyd, in the way that this convention is trying to talk about "we, the people" and bringing people together.
But I suspect we'll hear tough talk from the former first lady who will ground us in history of this moment and what we will be accomplishing this week.
BURNETT: So, David, is this going to be the beginning of a lot more from her? Just publicly, her out there trying to energize, trying to provide support on a historic basis, right, of the fact that you have a black woman on this ticket? Are we going to start to see a whole lot more of her? CHALIAN: Well, the Obamas -- both the former first lady and her
husband, the former president, made clear they're all in for Joe Biden. They're going to do, you know, what is asked of them. Do I think the Biden campaign would like to have them every day? Yeah, I bet they would like that. That isn't going to be the case.
But she's going to do -- this won't be the last time we see Michelle Obama this campaign season. She's going to be part of this effort going forward.
BURNETT: All right. And next, more on the message that we will hear tonight in the big keynote from the former first lady, Michelle Obama.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER FIRST LADY: And he is going to channel the same grit and passion to pick us all up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:56:50]
BURNETT: One of the most highly anticipated speeches tonight, Michelle Obama making the case for Joe Biden.
And here is a preview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: I know Joe. He is a profoundly decent man guided by faith. He was a terrific vice president. He knows what it takes to rescue an economy, beat back a pandemic and lead our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Athena Jones is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A powerful moment in the midst of a brutal campaign.
OBAMA: When someone is cruel or acts like a bully, you don't stoop to their level. No, our motto is when they go low, we go high.
JONES: That mantra becoming something of a calling card for the former first lady, one we could hear echoes of in her keynote address tonight. Mrs. Obama will be taking the stage at a pivotal moment, the nation with bipartisanship with a deadly virus raging out of control in many places and confronting a long awaited racial wakening from George Floyd's death at the hands of police.
It's a moment that has taken a tool as she acknowledged in her recent podcast. OBAMA: These are not fulfilling times spiritually, you know. So I know that I am dealing with some form of low-grade depression.
JONES: Known as a hugger and voted most admired woman in the world two years in a row, the First Lady embraced her position as a role model from the start, and while she's always said she has no interest in public office in the nearly four years since this emotional farewell --
OBAMA: Being your first lady has been the greatest honor of my life. And I hope I've made you proud.
JONES: She is not shied away from using her platform to take on President Trump, writing in her bestselling memoir "Becoming" that his efforts to push the racist, debunked conspiracy that he her husband, the country's first black president, wasn't born in America was not only crazy but mean-spirited but dangerous.
OBAMA: What if someone with an unstable mind loaded a gun and drove to Washington? Donald Trump with his loud and reckless innuendos was putting my family's safety at risk and for this, I'd never forgive him.
Why should I vote? Nothing ever changes?
JONES: The former first lady also using her bully pulpit to draw others into the political process.
OBAMA: Know that your vote will make a difference.
JONES: Co-chairing the voter participate group when we all vote.
OBAMA: And with everything going on this year, this election could not be more important for the future of our country.
JONES: Tonight's task to deliver a message of unity and optimism, making an affirmative case for what will be another historic Democratic ticket. She's likely to touch on themes like dignity, decency, integrity, hard work but most of all in this age of agitation and activism, on the need to turn that energy and anger into political action.
OBAMA: When anger is focused, when it's channeled into something more, oh, that is the stuff that changes history.
JONES: Athena Jones, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: Of course, we'll see that speech tonight. Thank you for joining us.
Our special coverage of the Democratic National Convention starts right now.
