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Erin Burnett Outfront
Trump Denies Systemic Racism Exists in the U.S., Just "Some Bad Apples" Who Choke "Under Tremendous Pressure"; Trump Travels to Kenosha, Doesn't Meet Jacob Blake's Family; Trump Asked About Jacob Blake Shooting in Kenosha, Says He Feels "Terribly for Anybody That Goes Through That". Aired 7-8p ET
Aired September 01, 2020 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: I'm Jim Acosta. Thanks very much for watching. Erin Burnett OUTFRONT starts right now.
PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next, Trump dodges when pressed about systemic racism, instead defending some police who use excessive force and pushing conspiracy theories about protesters.
Plus, some of the nation's top health experts now say there's not enough science to back up a treatment that the Trump administration has characterized as historic.
And a CNN special report, the coronavirus brought the world's economy to a sudden stop and tonight we take you inside the pandemic's threat to families and businesses across the country. Let's go OUTFRONT.
Well, good evening. I'm Pamela Brown in for Erin Burnett.
And OUTFRONT tonight, the President deny systemic racism exists. The very reason for protests across the country, including in Kenosha, Wisconsin, the site of the police shooting of Jacob Blake where the President was today. Now, during a roundtable discussion, a reporter asked two black pastors if police violence is rooted in racism and the President jumped in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some African-American community leaders -- and a lot of others, actually -- have said it's systemic. Where do you stand on that?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't believe that. No, I believe that. I think the police do an incredible job.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you believe systemic racism is a problem in this country?
TRUMP: Well, you just keep getting back to the opposite subject. We should talk about the kind of violence that we've seen in Portland and here and other places. It's tremendous violence. That's what you should be focusing on with your question.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BROWN: So you heard right there the President dismissed the issue
despite saying he wanted to heal racial tensions before he left for Wisconsin to meet with law enforcement and tour businesses damaged by the protests. And then today, he once again defended officers who use excessive force.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You have people that choke. They're under tremendous -- I said it yesterday, I said it last night: They're under tremendous pressure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So the President claimed that some officers choke in tough situations like a golfer might choke.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: A choke, they choke, shooting the guy in the back many times, I mean, couldn't you have done something different? Couldn't he have wrestled? I mean, in the meantime he might have been going for a weapon and there's a whole big thing there. But they choke, just like in a golf tournament, they miss a three foot ...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So that comparison prompted an outcry from critics who say it's insulting to the victims of police violence and also to the officers who are trained to protect and serve. The President is making his priorities clear and they do not include addressing systemic racism or holding police accountable. They do include baseless claims, conspiracy theories about the protest, including this one today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: A person that was on a plane said that there were about six people like that person more or less. And what happened is the entire plane filled up with the looters, the anarchists, the rioters, people that obviously were looking for trouble and the person felt very uncomfortable in the plane.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So the President keeps throwing this out there but not offering any evidence for that claim, only saying it's under investigation. But this is a serious charge, one that is designed to fan the flames, not ease tensions and not address the kind of change that people across the country are calling for.
Kaitlan Collins is OUTFRONT. She's live outside the White House for us. And Kaitlan, why can't the President acknowledge the systemic racism?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's not because he's not being asked about it, because he was asked several times during that roundtable today. He made very clear that was not a subject he wanted to linger on. The second time he even told the reporter you keep getting to the opposite subject.
He made clear he wanted to focus on what he went there for, which was not to sit down with Jacob Blake's family or anything of that nature or if you're talking about police reform, he wanted to talk about what was happening in the cities in the aftermath. The violence that we saw as a result of some of those riots that came from those protests that came, of course, after the police shooting of Jacob Blake. And that is what the President wanted to focus on.
And it was clear from his agenda today, but also clear from what he was telling reporters. And he made this distinction that he's made now many times where how he is basically differentiating what is happening in this officer involved situations, where he is saying basically that it is something that rarely happens. Saying that there are a few officers who make mistakes and otherwise have a pristine career and then this happens and that becomes the subject.
Instead of talking about how it is a white officer and it is another black man that has been shot by a white officer. And that is something that you've seen those protesters in Kenosha, Wisconsin say they want to talk about.
[19:05:04]
You saw that on the ground today. It wasn't just supporters who greeted the President, it was protesters as well and that's what they said they wanted the focus to be on today. But the President made very clear that is not where he believed it should be.
He even said he believed there needs to be greater appreciation for law enforcement and that's something that we just heard the vice president himself echo when he was asked about the Jacob Blake shooting. He called it a complicated investigation, talked about that but he also said that they are not going to reflexively condemn police officers. And that has been something that the President and the Vice President in their campaign believes is going to be an effective message going into November, Pam.
BROWN: Yes, politics. Kaitlan Collins at the White House. Thank you so much.
And OUTFRONT now, Van Jones, former Special Adviser to President Obama, Ben Jealous, former President and CEO of the NAACP and Isaiah McKinnon former Detroit Police Chief and former Deputy Mayor of Detroit. Thank you, gentlemen, for coming on.
A lot to discuss here, Van, and I want to start with you. You heard the President say he does not think there is systemic racism by police, just a few bad apples who choke under 'tremendous pressure'. When the President was asked whether systemic racism is a problem in this country, he avoided the question. He said, we should instead be talking about violence in Portland and Kenosha. What is he missing?
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think he's missing the whole point, which is that you now have millions and millions of white Americans who might have ducked the same way. Three months ago, four months ago might have tried to figure out some way not to answer the question, who now agree, poll show an unbelievable overwhelming majority of white Americans now accept that African-Americans are not being treated fairly, especially by police. I don't have the same shots as their own kids do and want something done about it.
Now, you can argue about whether it should be this solution and that solution, but the basic idea that racism is much worse in this country than most people were willing to acknowledge three or four months ago, that's pretty much settled in all of the polling data including among Republicans. And so the President is completely out of step, not just with facts, but public opinion, even a very large number of Republicans.
BROWN: Ben, how do you see it?
BEN JEALOUS, FORMER PRESIDENT & CEO, NAACP: This president just keeps doubling down on his tried and true strategy. The way that he came on the scene in politics was to fan the flames of hate. The way that he became president was to fan the flames of hate.
Now, he's trying to become president again by fanning the flames of hate. And the trouble, of course, is that the violence keeps getting worse and the risk just to our daily lives keeps getting worse in the prayer, the hope is that most people in this country will just simply decide that enough is enough. We cannot have four more years of Donald Trump.
BROWN: Chief McKinnon, the President also compared police shootings golf and I want to play more of that for you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The police are under siege, because of things - they can do 10,000 great acts, which is what they do and one bit apple or a choker, a choker, they choke, shooting the guy in the back many times, I mean, couldn't you have done something different? Couldn't you have wrestled? I mean, in the meantime, he might have been going for a weapon and there's a whole big thing there. But they choke just like in a golf tournament, they miss a three foot ...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're not comparing it to golf because, of course, that's what the media would say.
TRUMP: No. I'm saying people choke.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: He did compare it to golf. Chief McKinnon, you served on the police force for 25 years. Are these shootings just like choking at golf or is there, in fact, systemic racism by police?
ISAIAH MCKINNON, FORMER DETROIT POLICE CHIEF: Pam, let me say this, as a person who's been involved in law enforcement since 1965, who was shot at by fellow officers, who was beat up by officers, I would ask anyone who says there's no systemic racism within our police departments around this country to interview not only people like myself, but all of the black police chiefs, all of the black police officers in this country, and ask them if they believe there's systemic racism. For officers who suffered worse than I have, they know and they've seen this.
I just did an interview with a station in which they interviewed myself, they interviewed a young lady who's 20 years younger, who's retired from LAPD and a young man from the Ohio Police Department who's 20 years younger. So we have 40 years difference and we're all talking the same thing. Certainly, this racism exists and until we get a handle on telling the truth about it, we'll just continue to have these kinds of problems.
BROWN: What have you experienced? You say you believe it exists, what have you experienced personally?
[19:10:02]
MCKINNON: Well, when I was 14 years old I was severely beaten up by Detroit police. I was young man (inaudible) 14 and that's why I became a police officer. And I made myself a promise at the time that I was going to become different and make sure that I would join the Detroit Police Department and make sure that those kinds of things did not happen to me or to other people like me.
Ironically, as I joined the Detroit Police Department, I realized that there's so many officers who still maintain or manifested those same kinds of ideas and thoughts when those officers beat me up. I stopped officers from beating people up. In addition to that, I talked to police chiefs of when I was chief and every black police chief, every black police chief said that he or she had experienced similar kinds of things that I did.
So when someone says there's no systemic racism, you haven't, not only in police department, you have it in the military, you have it in so many different areas within our country.
BROWN: And in the historical context, why is that significant, Van?
JONES: Well, look, I think that we had an opportunity this summer and I think it's still present, a real continent of common ground kind of emerged out of the ocean of tears shed justifiably for what happened to Mr. George Floyd. People felt, hey, this isn't right and that video brought something out in ordinary people, they wanted to see something done.
Now, the legislation is stuck in Congress, but there's an opportunity to move something forward. The Presidential contest could be a contest of who has the better solutions to getting policing that works for more people, instead it's now divided into this like law and order as if people of color don't want lawn don't want order.
And so that's, I think, a big mistake and it's unfortunate.
BROWN: Well, so to that point, Ben, what struck me in listening to the President today, he was so focused on thinking law enforcement and just simply wanted to avoid the question when he was pressed further on systemic racism. But like Van pointed out, you can still want law and order, you can think police officers, but you can acknowledge that there's a problem here.
JEALOUS: No, I think the Chief's points were right on point. Yes, he spoke, I thought about all of the black officers who I met with when I was running the NAACP. I mean, even just state troopers across this country has this massive problems with racism on the force. Officers in cities across this country were afraid to be in plainclothes, because they're afraid they're going to be shot.
It brought me back to my own first experiences with racial profiling and the fears that it creates. My grandfather who was on law enforcement, whenever we would drive outside of Baltimore City, we drive like 10 miles below the speed limit. It would drive me crazy because we're going to the beach, but he was afraid of what his fellow members of law enforcement might do to our family.
And so the issue of systemic racism in law enforcement is certainly one that you cannot deny. And to have a president who on the one hand refuses to condemn vigilantes that kill people, on the other hand refuses to meet with a family of a man who was shot by an officer seven times on the back, and then on the other hand refuses to admit the systemic racism exists on the force, Van pointed out, is just wildly out of step with what most people in both parties understand to be true.
BROWN: Chief McKinnon, I want to give the final thoughts to you. What kind of an impact does it have when the President sends out a message like this?
MCKINNON: Well, it's a tremendous impact to certain people, obviously. But let me say this, if one wants to prove this, just very simply go to any port in any major city in this country and the greatest number of people are people of color. Even if you go to the suburban communities where they have very few blacks there, you will see majority of people are people of color or a brown people. It's just amazing to see this and you can look, check the activity log sheets of officers in every community and see who they stop.
And it's not just because black people or brown people are bad drivers, there are things that officers they do on purpose. I'm a person who's been involved in law enforcement since 1965, I love it. I really believe that there are great things that we do.
However, we have to make sure that we don't have the kind of people on that's going to do the kinds of things that we see that's occurring in our country right now.
BROWN: Chief McKinnon, Ben Jealous, Van Jones, thank you for coming on to share your important perspective. We appreciate it.
[19:15:03]
JEALOUS: Thank you.
MCKINNON: Thank you. BROWN: And OUTFRONT next, the President is addressing the shooting of
Jacob Blake, though Trump couldn't bring himself to mention his name.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I feel terribly for anybody that goes through that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Plus, they may be more comfortable but are they effective? A new study tonight on face shield and whether they can protect you from getting or spreading coronavirus.
And then Trump has his doctor released a statement today about his health denying he had a series of mini strokes. Why is he talking about this now?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:19:13]
BROWN: New tonight, President Trump declined to address the police shooting of Jacob Blake during a roundtable in Kenosha until he was asked a question about him. He repeatedly criticized protesters and the damage done to businesses until being asked what message he had for the Blake family.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Well, I feel terribly for anybody that goes through that. That's why I was so honored to meet the pastors. I feel terribly for anybody that goes through that. As you know, it's under investigation and I hope they come up with the right answer. It's a complicated subject to be honest with you. But I feel terribly for anybody that has to go through ...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Ryan Nobles is OUTFRONT in Kenosha, Wisconsin tonight. Ryan, how did locals there react to the President's visit?
RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pam, there was no doubt a lot of angst about the President coming here to Kenosha, particularly at this particular time.
[19:20:05]
The law enforcement aided by the National Guard and federal authorities had really calmed the situation here. The protests and the violence were not nearly as bad as they were in the days after the shooting of Jacob Blake. And there was a concern, particularly, from Blake's family and those close to him that the President coming here may reignite some of that chaos. And some of the concern that the folks that are protesting have about the way police have handled the situation, in particular, because President Trump has spent most of his time focused on the outgrowth of what happened after the shooting, as opposed to the shooting itself.
And you could tell that that continued today during this visit here. He spent most of his time talking to local law enforcement. He did tour. The abandon or I shouldn't say abandon, but the destruction that came from a burned out furniture business, this was all kind of playing into the President's broader message about law and order, restoring law and order and trying to bring some sort calm and peace to this area.
Now, the Blake family has been very clear that they do not want politics to play into the investigation of Jacob Blake's shooting. But, Pam, it is very difficult for that to happen particularly because of where this took place. Kenosha, Wisconsin is a key battleground. Of course, the State of Wisconsin is an important battleground. It's a state that President Trump narrowly won back in 2016.
But Kenosha itself, a county that has generally voted for Democrats in presidential election cycles, went to President Trump last time but only by 300 votes. So this county, these people dealing with this tragedy, are going to play a very important role in the 2020 election, Pam.
BROWN: Worth pointing that out. All right. Ryan Nobles, thank you so much.
And OUTFRONT now, Anthony Davis, the President of the Kenosha NAACP chapter. He says he was with members of the Blake family earlier today. And Kimberley Motley, a Civil Rights Attorney who was representing Gaige Grosskreutz who is recovering after being shot in the arm during a protest last week in Kenosha. Thank you both for coming on.
Anthony, I want to start with you. President Trump dismissed concerns that his visit to Kenosha today could increase tensions or unrest. In fact, he said he believed his visit could increase love and respect enthusiasm for the country. Do you think he accomplished that today?
ANTHONY DAVIS, PRESIDENT, KENOSHA NAACP CHAPTER: I'm going to say that when his visit here and his comments, he didn't talk about love. He talked about law enforcement and supporting law enforcement. That's not talking about love in our community.
If you wanted to talk about love, he should have mentioned Jacob Blake's name and the two young men that died and the gentlemen that got shot the arm. That would have been talking about love, showing concern for those families that have lost their children and family members, and Jacob Blake sitting in a hospital. That would have been love for me.
BROWN: And Kimberley, as he pointed out, the President did not meet with Blake's family directly. He did not visit your client who is recovering from being shot. Do you think the President missed an opportunity to help the situation in Kenosha?
KIMBERLEY MOTLEY, ATTORNEY REPRESENTING GAIGE GROSSKREUTZ: I think unfortunately, yes, the President missed an opportunity to help the situation in Kenosha. I think that what you're seeing now is that people, particularly the family, is really trying to do things to make the community come together which I think is very admirable of them considering what they're going through at this point in time.
And so what you're seeing is since the President won't step up that people around the country and frankly in Kenosha, Wisconsin, particularly the Blake family and also a lot of protesters are here are stepping up to be leaders in the community to say enough is enough and are trying to use love to continue to promote and to continue to fight for black lives.
BROWN: And Anthony, you were with the family earlier today. What was their reaction to the President's visit and his focus more on the unrest in the city after the shooting of Jacob Blake than Jacob himself?
DAVIS: I'll say this, they were more focused on the family, the children and trying to find a way through this and try to make a positive spin on this. Their focus was not on the President, because like said, The way they feel about him now is not in a positive light.
And I got one thing I got to say, the pastor that he had here today, Pastor James Ward and his wife, that's the pastor for his mother, Julia Jackson, but he's not a resident of Kenosha. But what I've heard, he's a pastor in Skokie, Illinois. So I wanted to get that out there for our folks here in Kenosha to understand.
[19:25:03]
If you're going to come here and talk to religious leaders, talk to the religious leaders here in Kenosha. That would been the right thing to do.
BROWN: And those religious leaders, they would have been willing to meet with him?
DAVIS: I don't know. I can't answer that. But I was told by one of the religious leaders here in town, who this pastor was today.
BROWN: OK. Really quick before we let you go, Kimberley, I want to get to what the President said last night about Kyle Rittenhouse, the man who police say shot your client at a protest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You saw the same tape as I saw and he was trying to get away from them, I guess, it looks like. And he fell and then they very violently attacked him and it was something that we're looking at right now and it's under investigation, but I guess he was in very big trouble. He probably would have been killed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So in the criminal complaint against Rittenhouse, prosecutor say an object that was in your client's hand appears to be a firearm. The President is saying Rittenhouse was acting in self-defense, your response?
MOTLEY: Well, I guess my response is this because I think the President should stick to politics and keep out of the legal game, because that doesn't work well for him generally. Basically, I think we need to ask more questions, we need to ask who else was helping the shooter with regards to shooting the two young men and shooting my client, shooting and killing two young men and injuring my client.
We need to know who did he call on the phone, who's the one that threw him that bag right before he started shooting. There are other people that are out there that should be at large that should be arrested now. And I think those are the questions that we should be asking, because there are a lot of very dangerous people that are out there. And even though Kyle may have pulled the trigger, there were a lot of people that put bullets in that gun and we need to find them.
BROWN: And it is still under investigation. Kimberley Motley, Anthony Davis, thank you so much.
DAVIS: Thank you.
BROWN: And OUTFRONT up next, experts at the National Institutes of Health breaking with the President over the use of convalescent plasma to treat coronavirus patients. What they're saying tonight?
Plus, why is Trump all of a sudden insisting that he didn't have many strokes when he made a surprise trip to Walter Reed. We'll be back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:31:24]
BROWN: Breaking news, a major blow to a coronavirus therapy pushed by President Trump. Three dozen experts on a panel with the National Institutes of Health say there's not enough evidence to back the use of convalescent plasma to treat coronavirus patients.
Now, this comes one week after the FDA gave emergency authorization for it.
Dianne Gallagher is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A National Institutes of Health panel says doctors should not use convalescent plasma as a standard of care for COVID-19 until more study has been done. This is a little more than a week after the FDA issued an emergency use authorization and President Trump praised it as a historic breakthrough.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's at incredible rate of success. Today's action will dramatically expand access to this treatment.
GALLAGHER: But the National Institutes of Health saying in a statement today, quote, there are insufficient data to recommend either for or against the use of convalescent plasma for the treatment of COVID-19. There are now three potential coronavirus vaccines in phase three human trials here in the United States, but Dr. Anthony Fauci is cautioning that proven safety is far more important than speed when it comes to vaccines.
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NIAID: You don't want a vaccine to be available widely to the American public unless it's been shown to be safe and effective.
GALLAGHER: After saying that a vaccine could be authorized for emergency use or even approved before human trials are completed, FDA commissioner Dr. Stephen Hahn now says he would consider resigning if he was pushed to authorize a vaccine before it was ready.
DR. STEPHAN HAHN, FDA COMMISSIONER: I think all options are on table. With respect, I hope we won't be in that position.
GALLAGHER: If one is approved, it's expected to initially be in short supply.
DR. RICHINA BICETTE, MEDICAL DIRECTOR & ASSISTANT PROFESSOR, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: A lot of the companies are also saying they'll have to do vaccines that are not single dose but double dose vaccines.
GALLAGHER: So, who gets it? Well, today, an independent committee appointed to help advice the federal government released a four phase proposal that starts with health care workers, first responders and people with conditions that make them especially vulnerable to COVID- 19. As testing totals decline, Admiral Brett Giroir, who leads U.S. testing efforts, announced $5 antigen tests will be sent out to states starting in a few weeks, but also said hew was tired of being asked about quick tests for every American.
ADM. BRETT GIROIR, ASSISTANT SECRETARY, HHS: I don't live in a utopian world. I live in a real world. The real world had no tests for this new disease when it first started.
GALLAGHER: Dr. Ashish Jha, Dean of Brown University School of Public Health, responded on Twitter, saying that's what White House staff and major league sports get right now. Sure, let's call it utopia when it's for the less privileged.
The average number of daily cases and deaths have declined over the past seven days as the coronavirus surge now appears to be moving from the south to the Midwest. But officials are concerned what about Labor Day weekend might bring since cases spiked in many areas in the weeks after Memorial Day weekend and the Fourth of July.
MAYOR SYLVESTER TURNER, HOUSTON: As we approach Labor Day, let me encourage people to be mindful the virus is still looking for you. So, if you come together, then you will give it a home.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GALLAGHER: And going back to convalescent plasma, that NIH panel essentially said that there's just not data that shows that it helps. In fact, nothing at this point has been searched see if maybe it can hurt patients further down the line.
Look, this is just another example, Pamela, of the American people being told one thing by the government and then a couple days later being told something totally different, the opposite from medical professionals and researchers.
[19:30:06]
And that doesn't do a lot to inspire confidence, especially when people want something to work. They want help. They want things to get better. It becomes hard to feel confident for a lot of people in what they're being told and whether or not politics are playing a role in this.
BROWN: Right. And that is a big concern. I mean, are there risks with using it? There's a lot more to discuss wit comes to that.
Dianne Gallagher, thank you so much.
And let's discuss it. OUTFRONT now, Dr. Sanjay Gupta and Dr. William Schaffner, former CDC official and professor of infectious diseases at Vanderbilt.
Thank you for coming on.
You just heard the report. This NIH panel says there's not enough evidence backing up the use of convalescent plasma to treat coronavirus patients a week after the FDA issued emergency authorization use for it, and criticism that the FDA had exaggerated its benefits. What is your reaction? And what are the risks, since this is being used on patients right now?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, well, you know, if you go back even a little bit further in the timeline, this past Sunday is when the emergency use authorization came out. If you go back to the Thursday before, that's when the NIH, actually Dr. Collins and Dr. Fauci, actually both said at that time they didn't think there was enough data to warrant an emergency use authorization. And then three days later, the EUA was authorized. It happened.
You know, the president had tweeted out in between saying, you know, the FDA better see the light or they're going to feel the heat, or something like that. So, there was concern that this was done because of pressure, obviously. As you correctly mentioned, some of the data around that was exaggerated.
We don't know. That's the issue the NIH is making here. If you look at the study, it compared patient who is got a higher dose of the convalescent plasma, patient who a lower dose and compared those two. You did not have a group that received convalescent plasma at all, a placebo, so to speak.
So, you know, that's what we're saying. We just don't have enough data to know is this working, is it something else to patients we're giving or even safety questions you're raising.
BROWN: Yeah, data is important. What do you think Dr. Schaffner? Are you concerned there was political influence with this?
DR. WILLIAM SCHAFFNER, PROFESSOR, INFECTIOUS DISEASES DIVISION, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: Well, the political influence seems to have been widely reported, and it certainly looks that way. The Food and Drug Administration was established to provide safe medications and effective medications, but particularly safe ones for the American people.
And since the beginning of COVID, its reputation has been tarnished because there have been a number of decisions, this regarding convalescent plasma is only the most recently, we have the whole hydroxychloroquine fiasco, and before then some release of serologic tests that had not been vetted very carefully.
We -- this is another agency that needs to restore its reputation because a very large decision is looming regarding vaccines. And many of us are very concerned that that also might be influenced by politics.
BROWN: Right. I mean, that's the question. That's -- you raise a great point. Does this erode road trust as we look ahead to vaccine? And the FDA is in charge of giving approval from a vaccine.
We just heard from Hahn. Now he's saying he would resign if he faced pressure. He previously said he would be willing, Sanjay, to approve a vaccine before it finished phase three trials.
GUPTA: Yeah, I mean, I followed this along very closely, and Dr. Schaffner is absolutely correct. I mean, we're hearing the same thing from our sources. There is this concern, this concern about the trust now in this agency from many public health officials outside the federal government. That's obviously a concern.
I will point out, and Pamela, you know this. But the bar by which a vaccine could be authorized should be much higher than a therapeutic. A vaccine is given to healthy people. If you look at the specific language for how they actually create an EUA, they basically say the FDA can grant this EUA if there is no acceptable alternative to what's out there.
But with the vaccine, the alternative is, you know, we wear masks, we physically distance, we do all the things that we've been talking about for some time, which I know makes people's eyes glaze over. But it is worth pointing out that there are many countries around the world that have returned to sense of normalcy without the vaccine. So, if the idea is say, look, vaccine can get back to sense of normalcy, that is true. But it is possible, there is a reasonable alternative that allows us to make sure this vaccine is safe and effective. That usually takes some time.
[19:40:00]
BROWN: And I want to talk about where we are as a country with the coronavirus eight months into this, Dr. Schaffner. CNN learned that the White House Task Force sent a report warning Iowa that it has the highest rate of cases in the U.S., increasing by 77 percent in a week. This comes as Iowa State University prepares to host 25,000 fans for its football game in less than two weeks.
How dangerous is this?
SCHAFFNER: It's very dangerous, of course. That's exactly what we shouldn't be doing, bringing 25,000 people together. I know it's outside, but think of all of the parties that will go on before and after.
And so all of those people together, you can be sure that the coronavirus will also be attending and also be spreading during those circumstances. We should be very careful now throughout the Midwest, this virus is now spreading. We need to do just the opposite.
BROWN: Yeah -- go head.
SCHAFFNER: Thank you. We just need to be doing the opposite. We should be very cautious, very careful, not attending these large mass gatherings.
BROWN: Right. It's like a game of whack-a-mole, Sanjay. It'll pop up somewhere, and once that gets under control it pops up somewhere else.
I remember it wasn't long ago, after the Fourth of July holiday, we saw this surge of cases. You see the cases, the hospitalization numbers go up and the deaths go up. Are you concerned with the Labor Day holiday coming up and of course fall that we could see a similar surge?
GUPTA: You know, I am concerned about this. And I get no joy in saying that, Pamela.
BROWN: Of course.
GUPTA: I know people are getting really sick of this.
But you've got Labor Day. We've got schools reopening as well, which, you know, because of football games, like Dr. Schaffner was saying, or just clustering students together. I mean, the virus behaves in a very predictable way.
Do you know what also behaves in a very predictable way? College kids, right? They're going to be gathering together doing things. Within the next couple of months you're going to superimpose flu season on this. We hate to keep being the ones ringing the bell on this, but this is real time. This is what's happening.
BROWN: I mean, you have to ring the bell though. It's just the reality of where we're, even if we're fatigued from the coronavirus. Even if we're over it. As we've heard time and time again, it's not over us.
All right. Sanjay, Dr. Schaffner, thank you so much. OUTFRONT up next, CNN special report the coronavirus pushed America's
economy to the brink. And while Wall Street is thriving, Main Street is not. Why is that?
Plus, new questions about Trump's health after his doctor is told to issue a rare statement following the report that the vice president was on stand by to take over during Trump's unannounced visit to Walter Reed.
We'll be back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:46:51]
BROWN: Well, all week-long, we were taking a closer look at what we know, what we don't know about the coronavirus and its immense impact on Americans. More than 14 million people are out of work. Millions more are facing possible eviction. And Congress and the White House are still deadlocked over providing Americans more financial relief.
Vanessa Yurkevich is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): On the streets of Harlem, sign of business on life support.
TAMI TREADWELL, OWNER, HARLEM SEAFOOD SOUL: It's been like a ghost town out here.
YURKEVICH: Tami Treadwell is back with her food cart, Harlem Seafood Soul, after five months off the street.
(on camera): What got you back out here on the street again?
TREADWELL: Needing to be able to feed my family.
YURKEVICH (voice-over): Months into the pandemic, millions are still out of work, and more than 100,000 small businesses have closed.
Treadwell says she applied for grants from the city and a PPP loan but hasn't received either.
TREADWELL: The responses I've gotten is there isn't enough money or you try back again, maybe some additional funding will become available, or you just don't hear anything back at all.
YURKEVICH: But even with the PPE loan, for some it didn't go far.
LUISA SANTOS, OWNER, LULU'S ICE CREAM: As it was designed, we ran out of that money a little bit longer than eight weeks it lasted. But still, we are way past that 8-week point.
YURKEVICH: Luisa Santos opened Lulu's Ice Cream six years ago in Miami. She emigrated to the U.S. from Columbia for the American dream. Now she's cutting her salary to keep her employees on part-time, and she's hoping Congress will pass a third stimulus bill for her small business.
SANTOS: We are not in a good place in our economy. And what we need is support to get through the rough patch.
YURKEVICH: But the U.S. jobs recovery is stalling. Less than 50 percent of the 22 million jobs lost in March and April are back online. More than a million people have filed for unemployment each week except one since mid-March. And the extra $600 a week in unemployment benefits have expired.
TREADWELL: I'm behind in my rent like everybody else. We're food insecure like everybody else.
YURKEVICH: Still, some parts of the U.S. economy are thriving. U.S. tech companies have recovered and then some. The top five in the U.S. are now worth a collective $7 trillion. But there's a disconnect between Wall Street and Main Street. While stocks are hitting records, up to 40 million Americans could face eviction by the end of the year without a new stimulus bill.
TREADWELL: If you leave us out, we're going to have bad streaks. The economy's not going to get back up and running because we are the life blood of mainstream America.
YURKEVICH: The pandemic is also exposing a harsh reality for women of color. The highest rate of unemployment is among Latina workers. And black women in jobs deemed essential to COVID-19 recovery make up to 27 percent less than white men.
[19:50:01]
SANTOS: We are being affected more significantly than other business owners. And we need that support.
TREADWELL: I know for a fact, as a social economic disadvantage for us for as long as I can remember. Please think about the street vendors who are out here who are really just trying to make a good honest living.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
YURKEVICH: And this is why a stimulus bill is so critical because it addresses so many different parts of the economy. It can help put an eviction moratorium and unemployment, student debt and it can help to freeze payment on certain rents that people owe. And when you put money into the hands of everyday day Americans, they're willing to spend more that helps stimulate the economy, and that inevitably will provide more jobs -- Pamela.
BROWN: And yet the White House and Congress are still deadlocked.
Vanessa Yurkevich, really important reporting there. Thank you.
Well, OUTFRONT up next, more questions tonight over the president's mysterious trip to Walter Reed last year. Why was the vice president reportedly on stand by to take over?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:55:27]
BROWN: Well, tonight, the White House is responding to new questions about president Trump's health and his mysterious visit to Walter Reed Medical Center. The president's physician issued a statement today that said he could confirm rather that the president has not experienced nor been evaluated for stroke, mini stroke or any acute cardiovascular emergencies as have been incorrectly reported in the media.
Now, to be clear, no major or reputable news outlet claimed Trump suffered, quote, mini strokes, but it does come as a new book claims Vice President Pence was put on alert to take over duties of president if Trump had to be put under anesthesia during the November 2019 trip to Walter Reed.
OUTFRONT now, Dr. Jonathan Reiner. He is the director of the cardiac cath lab at George Washington University and he advised the White House medical team under President George W. Bush.
Great to see you, Dr. Reiner.
That statement obviously laid out what didn't occur, but not what did happen that day. Do you believe they are using a straw man argument here to not address what actually might have happened?
DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Well, of course. So, something obviously happened on November 16th in the afternoon on a Saturday, the president was hurried in an urgent fashion, in an unplanned fashion to Walter Reed. Now the White House has medical capabilities so if the president was taken to Walter Reed, he was taken there because there was something going on that they could not either treat or evaluate at the White House, and the White House does not want us to know what that is.
If they did, the president's physician today would have simply said he didn't have any neurological or cardiac problem. He simply had X. But they --
BROWN: Or say --
REINER: -- don't want the American people know what X is.
BROWN: Or a private matter.
So, Vice President Pence and I actually want to go back to that question about whether the president's health should be a private matter. Before we get to that, Vice President Pence was asked moments ago about being an alert that day and here is what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There's nothing out of the ordinary about that moment or that day, and I just refer any other questions to the White House physician.
INTERVIEWER: As far as being on stand by?
PENCE: I don't -- I don't recall being told to be on stand by.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: You would think, well, if you were told to be on stand by to be the president, you would remember that but do you believe him?
REINER: I think in the Watergate era, they call that a non-denial denial, right? So, yeah, you would think that if on a Saturday afternoon you were called and said you need to be on stand by if you suddenly need to become president this afternoon, yeah, you might remember that. So, yeah, that's -- vice president is being disingenuous. We do need to know what happened that day.
BROWN: So, let's talk about that. Why is it important for the public to know about the president's health and is it -- is it something the president or White House could say look, this is a private matter and we don't want to discuss the president's health any further?
REINER: Yeah, so if the president was a private citizen, that would make perfect sense. But the president is not. And in this election season, we need to know the health of the candidates for president.
I've actually written about this. We know nothing actually about the health of the president of the United States. If you remember, his clearance to run for office was famously penned by Dr. Bornstein in New York and said the president drafted it for him. That's the letter that famously said if he elected, he would be the healthiest man ever to hold office.
We know virtually nothing about the health of the president of the United States but holds nuclear launch codes in his pocket. Look, we require health clearances for airline pilots and school bus drivers and Secret Service agents. We should probably know the health of the president of the United States.
BROWN: And it's interesting as doctors have often used as you point out hyperbole he could live until 200, until he was 200.
Really quick, is there any scenario where it would make sense for the vice president to be on stand by for a routine physical for the president?
REINER: Not for a routine physical. If the president was going to receive unconscious sedation, if he needs to be put out, let's say he was having a colonoscopy or having a cardio version for abnormal heart rhythm, you need to go to surgery with a general anesthesia, yeah, the 25th Amendment would need to be evoked.
BROWN: But not for if it's a routine matter.
All right. Dr. Reiner, thank you very much.
REINER: Never.
BROWN: The intrigue on that day, that visit continues.
REINER: My pleasure.
BROWN: Thanks for joining us.
"AC360" starts now.
