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Erin Burnett Outfront
Trump, "We're Rounding The Corner on The Virus" Key Model Projects 220,000 More Deaths by Jan; Trump Says U.S. Would Have "Far More" Deaths Without His Response, New Model Projects 410,000 Deaths by Jan; Study, Russia's Coronavirus Vaccine Shows Potential; Trump Denies Calling Fallen U.S. Soldiers "Losers" & "Suckers"; New Details in Case of Black Man Who Died After Police Incident. Aired on 7-8p ET
Aired September 04, 2020 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:00]
JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: Wear your mask, stay safe, listen to Dr. Fauci. And Erin Burnett OUTFRONT starts right now.
ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next breaking news, President Trump claims the U.S. is rounding the corner when it comes to the deadly pandemic as an influential model now predicts the U.S. death toll could top 410,000 by the end of the year.
Plus, angry and defensive, the President denying a report he called fallen soldiers losers and suckers. He's defense though doesn't add up. Former Secretary of Defense, Leon Panetta, is my guest.
And new details on just who is behind Kanye West's presidential run and how it could affect November's vote. Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening, welcome to a special edition of OUTFRONT. I'm Erica Hill in for Erin Burnett.
Tonight breaking news, President Trump ignoring the reality of the pandemic, just moments ago suggesting that the U.S. is almost in the clear while touting a decline in deaths.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: By the way, we're rounding the corner. We're rounding the corner on the virus. Hospitalizations and deaths have continued to decline over the past week, very substantially decline.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: We're rounding the corner, deaths have declined substantially. But just moments ago, Dr. Anthony Fauci was asked right here on CNN if he agrees that we're rounding the corner.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: What do you make of that characterization?
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: I'm not sure what he means.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: I'm not sure what he means because, well, frankly, the facts just don't back up the President, deaths have not declined substantially over the past week. Roughly a thousand people have been losing their lives almost every day and things could get worse. An influential model often cited by the White House is now predicting more than 410,000 Americans could die from Coronavirus by the end of the year.
That is another 222,000 lives. It's more than double the current death toll. And experts are also warning that daily reported deaths, as you see on your screen there, could hit a somber record, 3,000 a day by December, so why? Why when we are more than seven months into this pandemic, why is it potentially getting worse? Why are we talking about a potential spike in deaths?
Well, it's because the easy things that we can all do, the social distancing, wearing masks, wash your hands, they're not happening everywhere. The President actually recommending them this afternoon, but he's not following his own advice.
We showed you pictures of his rally last night, a large crowd, little social distancing, very few masks as you can see. The president even mocking Joe Biden at that rally for wearing a mask.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: But did you ever see a man that likes a mask as much as him? And then he makes a speech and he always has it, not always, but a lot of times he has it hanging down because, you know what, it gives him a feeling of security. If I were a psychiatrist, right, no, I'd say this guy has got some big issues.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: President Trump's own issue with masks is putting lives at risk. Face coverings work. We know. Why? Science. Keep in mind that same IHME model that warns more than 400,000 deaths by January 1st also notes 122,000 lives could be saved, if almost everyone wore a mask. It's not that hard.
The President today said we're rounding the curve. He wants the virus to go away. We all want it to go away. But just acting like it's under control won't make it so. In the past, the President has criticized that IHME model, but take a look at its track record which suggests they might know what they're doing.
In March, it projected 81,000 deaths by July. The real number more than 128,000. In May. They were looking at possibly 137,000, by August 155,000 lives lost in this country by August. In June, a projection of 180,000 deaths by October 1st. Well, today is September 4th and the death toll in this country 187,464.
If anything, the IHME estimate has actually been low. And if that sounds alarming, it should be, because remember this latest prediction is 410,000 deaths by the end of the year.
Boris Sanchez is OUTFRONT live near the White House. So Boris, the President was asked tonight about that model. What did he say?
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Erica. President Trump, yet again, suggesting that the United States is rounding the corner when it comes to coronavirus, never mind that we've heard this kind of messaging from the White House for months. In fact, the President called for certain states to reopen despite these dire prognostications and the President essentially dismissing this model from the University of Washington, suggesting that things could have been a lot worse in the United States with potentially over a million deaths had he not taken action early on.
[19:05:04]
Again, reiterating the claim that he stopped travel from certain countries and that prevented widespread death in the United States. The President, though, did not dig into questions about what could be done now to save lives, including things like wearing masks, which as you noted, he criticized Joe Biden for last night.
The President quickly pivoted to talking about other countries, claiming yet again that other countries are cooking the books when it comes to their coronavirus numbers, not specifying any country. In the past, he has insinuated that South Korea, an ally of the United States is again without evidence, fibbing with their coronavirus numbers.
The President saying he doesn't want to embarrass anyone, so he didn't mention any country specifically by name. He also repeated that unscientific claim that the United States has more cases, because we do more testing than other countries, something that doesn't take into account the rate of positive tests in the United States, which by comparison is remarkably high when you look at other countries around the globe, Erica?
HILL: Yes. The cases are there whether you test or not. It's so important to look at things like the positivity as you point out, Boris. Thank you.
Well, one of the big questions tonight, will more states now heed the warnings? Will they mandate masks? Nick Watt is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There is COVID fatigue across the country, including Pennsylvania Avenue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We're rounding the curve.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATT (voice-over): But the worst could still be to come. Another 220,000 plus Americans could be killed by this virus by January 1st, according to one well-known model which ominously has underestimated death tolls in the past. They now say 410,000 total by the end of the year.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ABDUL EL-SAYED, EPIDEMIOLOGIST AND HEALTH EXPERT: They also tell us that from that 410,000 number, if we were to ease our behaviors, that number goes up to nearly 620,000 deaths.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATT (voice-over): But masks were mandated across the country, they say we could save more than 120,000 lives. Yet, the President won't mandate them, neither will Georgia's Governor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. BRIAN KEMP (R) GEORGIA: I personally don't believe a statewide mask mandate is the way to go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATT (voice-over): Or Missouri's Governor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We implore him to listen to the health care workers in the state of Missouri and order a statewide mask mandate. We're the show me state, but we're really - what would be a better name for us is the make me state.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATT (voice-over): Now, our immediate hurdle, the long Labor Day weekend, the stay safe message targeted at the young.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. MIKE DEWINE (R) OHIO: While all of us when we were your age thought we were invincible, you can pass this on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATT (voice-over): And you can get very sick. Thirty-one-year-old Jenny Ruelas caught COVID, lost her father to the virus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNY RUELAS, CORONAVIRUS SURVIVOR: He was in a lot of pain and that's the face I'll never forget.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATT (voice-over): She no longer tests positive, but still struggles to breathe.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUELAS: I have to walk around with an oxygen can.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WATT: And young people clearly a big issue right now, Missouri saying 30 percent of their positive cases are between in the ages 18 to 24. Up in Boston, Northeastern University just suspended 11 students for the rest of the semester after they apparently gathered together in a hotel room. And here on this side of the country, San Diego State has just paused all in-person teaching immediately after another 120 cases confirmed, Erica.
HILL: Wow. It's almost like we've seen this movie before, Nick. Nick Watt live in Los Angeles. Thank you.
OUTFRONT tonight Dr. Sanjay Gupta and Dr. Jonathan Reiner, excuse me, Director of the Cardiac Cath Lab at George Washington University Hospital. He also advised the White House medical team under President George W. Bush.
So Sanjay, we heard the President tonight say - touting this drop in deaths, but we see them this modeling from this IHME model that says we could see 3,000 deaths a day by December. What is the reality tonight?
SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, those are sobering numbers. I mean, I woke up to that at four o'clock this morning, Erica, so what a way to wake up to look at those models.
HILL: Yes.
GUPTA: One of these things where we seem to have plateaued, as you've heard, I'm sure many times. Now, Dr. Fauci just talked about it. We seem to have plateaued in the number of new infections per day, around 40,000 new infections per day and roughly, on average, about a thousand people dying per day. That seems to be, at least for the time being, the best that we can do.
And I think what these modelers from the University of Washington and we've been following their model very closely. The reason people pay attention to it is because the White House often cites this model as well. They're now saying exactly as you point out that these numbers are likely to go up.
They say that the peak mask usage for this country was probably in early August and now masks usage is going down. That's driving the numbers up. Kids and young adults returning to school and colleges, that's probably driving the numbers up.
[19:10:07]
And then probably increased mobility later on this year as people start to go home, I guess, for the holidays and things like that. That is likely to drive the numbers up. So it's sobering and it's frustrating candidly to believe that after all of the time that we've been talking about this and the basic public health practices that can make a difference, that this is still now what the model is projecting.
HILL: I mean, it is frustrating because from the beginning, I mean, look, Sanjay, I remember you showing us how to make a mask out of a bandana, what seems like a lifetime ago, that was really probably six months ago.
Dr. Reiner, as we look at this, we know that masks are the key here to really stopping the spread to helping to get some of those numbers down. The President mocking masks at that rally last night. It's not the first time he's done so. He doesn't like the way he looks in a mask.
But then today in the briefing room suggesting that people should wear a mask this weekend. But candidly, Dr. Reiner, how much responsibility do you think the President bears here for those mixed messages and for not following his own advice that we heard from him tonight?
JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Oh, enormous responsibility. I think when historians write about this time, they're going to spend a great amount of time trying to figure out why the President wouldn't embrace mask from the beginning. And I think what it's going to come down to is not some Machiavellian political plan, but something as simple as the President didn't like the way he looked in it and thought masks make you look weak, something as nonsensical as that.
Look, if I was the President's advisor, I would tell him to push masks. Because if you push masks now, you'll push down the infection rate. And if you push down the infection rate, you'll get what you want, but he refuses to believe that. It's hard to understand.
HILL: When we look at deaths too, the President tonight was claiming the U.S. has such a high death toll simply because he doesn't believe that other countries are reporting the numbers accurately. So for the most part, as far as I know, and correct me if I'm wrong, Sanjay, that is, for the most part, not true.
But we also heard from his newest advisor in the White House coronavirus task force, Dr. Scott Atlas, who had this to say about deaths. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. SCOTT ATLAS, ADVISER, WH CORONAVIRUS TASK FORCE: The only really legitimate way to compare countries, if you really want to get down to it, it's something that most epidemiologists understand, and that is something called excess mortality. And what that means is comparing deaths this year, during the pandemic compared to your baseline, your country's baseline.
And the facts are the following: Europe has done 38 percent worse than the United States in excess mortality. No one talks about this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: So when the interviewer asked him about the data from Johns Hopkins with John Hopkins compiled that shows the U.S. has the fourth highest number of deaths per 100,000 people. Sanjay, he just said that that data is simply wrong. I mean, I know you look at that data multiple times a day. Is the data wrong?
GUPTA: No, the data is not wrong. And I'm not sure what epidemiologist Dr. Scott Atlas is talking about, because I heard his comments earlier and I talked to a few epidemiologist trying to understand. So let me just try and put this as simply as possible.
Excess deaths are typically a measure used to sort of see how a nation is doing compared to how maybe that same nation was doing last year. So in the United States, for example, there's about roughly 200,000 excess deaths so far this year as compared to last year. So obviously, very similar population in this country last year as compared to this year and there's 200,000 excess deaths mostly due to COVID.
That's sort of the point of excess deaths. You can see the graph here, if he wants to compare the United States to the European Union, there it is. I mean, first of all, this pandemic hit the United States a little later than the European Union and then you can see that dramatic drop off of the European Union. We had a bit of a drop off, but then we plateaued and we started to go back up.
That's the facts. I'm not sure really what the point was that that Dr. Atlas was driving at. And leave aside Europe, I mean, there's plenty of other countries if you want to start drawing comparisons that we could compare ourselves to. And this idea that possibly advocating for herd immunity, he talks about this a lot, says he doesn't advocate for it, but he does talk about letting the infection sort of go through a community. That's a terrible idea.
Millions of people would die, hospitals would be overwhelmed and, frankly, it wouldn't even work. It would take years to get the herd immunity and the immunity you get from the infection will probably wear off by that time. So I'm just not sure where this is coming from and I worry because he's on the taskforce now. Those kinds of statements keep taking us backwards.
HILL: Yes. Well, I think in terms of going backwards, the other concern is, we heard again from the President, that a shutdown is often worse than the virus. And a lot of people understand why he says that and shutdowns are absolutely have, in many areas, devastating effects.
[19:15:04]
They have vast impact. But Dr. Reiner, saying that a shutdown is worse than the virus, if we don't use some form of mitigation, the virus is never going to go away. So can we really say a shutdown is worse than the virus?
REINER: No. The shutdown has been devastating to the economy. But the U.S. economy will come back, there's no question about that. What won't come back are the almost 200,000 Americans who are buried now. The President has never watched somebody die alone in an ICU room, because families aren't allowed in hospitals during the pandemic, but I have.
The President hasn't gone to work worrying that he's going to contract the virus that day at work and bring it home to his family, but all healthcare workers have. And many people go to work every day in the United States have that same fear. Look, the Declaration of Independence lists the unalienable rights that government is supposed to protect and the first one that is listed is life. Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
That's his job. His job is to protect life. That should be his primary focus now. But his primary focus is getting reelected. And to get reelected, he needs to boost the economy. He needs to focus on life first and then the economy will come back. The surest way to resuscitate the economy is to put the virus down.
HILL: Dr. Reiner, Dr. Gupta always appreciate it, thank you both.
GUPTA: Can I just add as well?
HILL: Yes.
GUPTA: Amplify that after the 1918 flu pandemic, what happened after that, the roaring 20s. It did come back. The economy will come back. You just got to make sure you don't let unnecessary deaths occur in the meantime.
HILL: A little pain now can save a lot of pain later on as we know. Thank you both.
OUTFRONT next, a Russian vaccine is showing promising results according to a renowned medical journal. So just how encouraged should we be?
Plus, Trump on the defensive, attacking a damning report that he made disparaging remarks about service members who've been wounded or killed in action. New details about those comments tonight.
Plus, new questions about the investigation into the death of a black man who died after police covered his head, pinned him to the ground. Why did some city officials only learned about the case when the video was released months after his death?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:21:02]
HILL: New tonight, President Trump telling Americans a coronavirus vaccine could be ready by October. This just hours after Joe Biden predict the President may announce one that will be available just around Election Day so that he could hype it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: We remain on track to deliver a vaccine before the end of the
year and maybe even before November 1st. We think we could probably have it sometime during the month of October. We have some really great companies. They're all doing very well. They're all in final stages and I think you're going to see results that are shockingly good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: There are encouraging signs in the first results from Russia's vaccine. Matthew Chance is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Russia, the battle against COVID-19, it seems, is being fought with real soldiers. This is the country's Defense Minister getting a vaccine. Then on state TV, Moscow's Mayor tells the Russian President he's just been vaccinated too.
"Did temperature rise?" A concern President Putin asks. "No," says the Mayor just a slight headache and a little fatigued. The intended message, Russia's vaccine called Sputnik V is safe, even top officials trust it. Although the Kremlin won't confirm to CNN if Putin himself has taken the plunge.
But there is now some reason for Russia's confidence. First data from phase one and two clinical trials published in The Lancet medical journal suggests the Russian vaccine produced no serious adverse side effects. It seems to be safe in other words. And it generated an antibody response according to The Lancet in all the test participants, admittedly only 76 people. But Russian scientists say that's more than enough to prove their vaccine works and works well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEXANDER GINZBURG, DIRECTOR, GAMALEYA INSTITUTE: The high levels of cell immunity suggests there are great prospects for developing memory cells. This tells us that it will not just create high protective levels at the moment of immunization, but also that this protective impact will last for a very long time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHANCE (voice-over): Russia has been one of the world's worst affected countries in the COVID-19 pandemic, recording more than a million cases nationwide. It also has a track record of creating vaccines, famously against polio in the 1950s. More recently in 2016 to battle the outbreak of Ebola in West Africa.
But there's been a cautious reception to Russia's COVID-19 vaccine, lack of published data until now and approval for use before human trials were complete raise concerns about its safety and effectiveness. Even now with phase one and two trials published, The Lancet warns the studies are too small and that larger phase three trials are needed to know how useful the vaccine will really be. (END VIDEOTAPE)
CHANCE: So Erica, does the world have a new COVID-19 vaccine? Well, the Russians would like to think the answer to that is yes. But the scientific consensus outside of Russia appears to be of the view that while this Russian vaccine is encouraging, it's far too premature to call it a success. Back to you.
HILL: We will keep watching. Matthew Chance, thank you.
OUTFRONT now, Dr. Ashish Jha. He's the Director of the Harvard Global Health Institute. Always good to have you with us.
So Dr. Jha, when we look at this, as Matthew laid out so well, it's natural for us to take this news out of Russia with a grain of salt and even the cautions, and the notes that we saw there in The Lancet. All of that considered, including the size of this study, what is your takeaway? How encouraged should we be?
DR. ASHISH JHA, DIRECTOR, HARVARD GLOBAL HEALTH INSTITUTE: Yes. So thank you for having me on. I looked at the study. I looked at the data and it's good.
[19:25:03]
It basically says that the vaccine that the Russians have developed looks like it generates an immune response. And in the short run in a small sample it doesn't seem to have much in the way of negative side effects or nothing major. This is not an advancement over what we already knew from the Moderna vaccine, from the Oxford vaccine.
So if you think about it as a consumer, as a patient, as a citizen, what you care about is does the vaccine going to protect me from the infection, is it going to protect me from getting sick and is it going to be safe for me and my family. And nothing in this study answers those questions yet. We still need answers to those questions.
HILL: You mentioned Moderna, we heard from Moderna that they are trying to ramp up recruitment, so they have a more diverse group of folks who are enrolled in their vaccine trials. Just to give people a sense, 68 percent of the volunteers are white, 20 percent Hispanic or Latino, just 7 percent are black. They say they'll even slow things down if they need to, to make sure they have a better representation.
Just remind us again why that's so important.
JHA: Yes. It is critically important for several reasons. I mean, first of all, there's a long history of inappropriate, immoral, unethical experimentation on African-Americans in our country. And so I can understand why a lot of black Americans may be hesitant to enroll in such a trial.
The reason you need a representative sample is you want to know is it going to work across a broad swath of the population. I imagine we only tested it in young, healthy white people. We would have no idea what the impact would be on everybody else. So it is important we get the studies right, even if it takes a few
extra weeks.
HILL: And you mentioned this in this long history of immoral, which may be putting it mildly and in many cases these medical experiments, Dr. Fauci was also noting what had been done to African-Americans in this country. And the understandable distrust that can come along with that history and I know that's a concern too overcoming that once there is a vaccine to get the message out there that this is safe and effective once we have one. How concerned are you about finding that trust again?
JHA: Yes. It's critically important. So let's say that Moderna and others do a good job, that they have a representative sample. They have a nice large sample. We have confidence in the data. You're still going to have to go out and convince people that it's safe and effective and that they're going to want to vaccinate their kids or their elderly parents or themselves.
And given the mistrust and I think justifiable mistrust in the African-American community of the medical system, I think we're going to have to work really hard, we're going to have to find trusted sources. I think we can get there but it's not going to be easy.
HILL: Really quickly before I let you go, the FDA rejected oleandrin as a dietary supplement. This, of course, is the same ingredient the CEO of MyPillow was touting as a therapeutic for coronavirus, even telling the President about it. Do you think this will allow us to finally put it behind us?
JHA: Yes. Look, I was pleased to see it. I think the FDA is acting based on the best scientific evidence we have. We got to keep seeing the FDA act in that way. That's what the American people need, so I was happy to see that happen.
HILL: Dr. Ashish Jha, always appreciate it. Thank you.
JHA: Thank you.
HILL: OUTFRONT next, President Trump denying a report he called wounded and dead U.S. service members losers and suckers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It's a hoax, just like the fake dossier was a hoax.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: Plus, Rochester officials now admit to withholding information about a black man who died after being pinned to the ground, why?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:32:38]
HILL: Breaking news, President Trump moments ago denying a report in "The Atlantic" that he disparaged fallen U.S. service members and chose to skip a ceremony honoring Americans killed during World War I during an overseas trip in 2018.
According to that report, the president called the soldiers, quote, losers and suckers because they died in battle. The president responding with a familiar refrain.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's just a continuation of the witch hunt so that it can hopefully affect the election. These people have gone after me more than any president in the United States in history.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: Well, Mr. Trump and the White House pushed back on the reporting. Multiple outlets have confirmed details and comments in that report.
OUTFRONT now, Leon Panetta, former secretary of defense under President Obama. He is supporting Joe Biden's presidential campaign.
Sir, good to have you with us.
As we -- as we take in these comments, you served in the Army. You led the U.S. military, of course, as defense secretary. I'm just curious off the top, what is your reaction to these alleged comments from the president about fallen service members?
LEON PANETTA, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, to have the commander in chief say anything like that, that these are suckers and losers, our men and women in uniform who put their lives on the line and fought and died for this country, is a disgrace. It's a disgrace.
And I know he will deny it. But the fact is, it's right out of his playbook. He called John McCain, a war hero, a loser. He's called George Bush, President George Bush, whose plane went down in World War II, he called him a loser.
And he's been quoted as having called the chairman and the joint chiefs a bunch of babies after a briefing in the tank after the Defense Department. So, time and time again, he's used those kinds of words to basically abuse the very people who do fight and die and serve for our country.
HILL: You know, you brought up John McCain. And he did -- he was asked specifically today if he regretted some of his comments about John McCain, saying that he wasn't a hero, because we know the president said he likes heroes who don't get captured.
[19:35:04]
This was his response to that question.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I say what I say and I never got along with John McCain. I disagree with John McCain. You know that better than anyone, frankly. I wasn't a fan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: In some ways, it's not surprising but also interesting to hear him say, this is what I say, this is who I am. That response, based on what you just laid out, past comments from the president, it's fascinating to hear him in some ways say that quiet part out loud tonight.
PANETTA: Yeah, no, look. I think President Trump was very transparent. You know, he basically said, you know, I didn't like John McCain. John McCain questioned some of my position. So, therefore he's not a war hero. Therefore he's a loser.
The fact is that John McCain is a war hero. Put his life on the line for this country. And, you know, just because president may not agree with what John McCain says is no reason to demean the individual. And that's what disturbs me about this president is that he can't accept the fact that you might disagree with somebody and still respect that person. He has got to demean them in some way and try to tear them down. And that just shows, frankly, that the character of the man we have in the presidency.
HILL: The article also describes the president visiting Arlington Cemetery on Memorial Day, 2017, there with John Kelly who at the time was marine secretary. They were visiting the area where soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan were buried, including John Kelly's son. The article notes Trump while standing by Robert Kelly's grave turned directly to his father and said, "I don't get it. What was in it for them?"
And we should point out, John Kelly hasn't responded to this reporting. But the president was asked about it a short time ago. This was his response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I know John Kelly. He was with me. Didn't do a good job. Had had no temperament. And ultimately, he was petered out.
He got -- he was exhausted. This man was totally exhausted. He wasn't even able to function in the last number of months.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: You know, as you said, to your point there, he's not answering the question. He moves immediately to disparaging John Kelly. I'm just curious, though, the fact that we haven't heard from John Kelly as we're watching all of this play out. And that moment, to begin to imagine a father standing there next to the grave of his son, who made the ultimate sacrifice, what is your message, with all of this that's coming out, especially if you were still secretary of defense? What would your message be to those men and women in uniform right now?
PANETTA: My message to them is be proud of serving our country in uniform. And I couldn't be prouder of the men and women who do serve this country and are willing to go to the battlefields of this country and put their lives on the line in order to protect this country. We depend on them to protect our country. We depend on them because they have the courage to put their lives on the line.
When the president asks John Kelly -- and I know John Kelly. He's a great guy, a great marine, serves the country with distinction. He's somebody who's a stand up person. And I resent the fact that the president winds up demeaning him as well today, because the bottom line is his son, John Kelly's son, did die and he's buried in Arlington. And I've been there with John Kelly.
And I paid tribute to his son for the sacrifice that he made for this country. I didn't ask the question, what was in it for him, which is what the president is quoted as asking. What is in it -- what was in it for them?
As if to say that service to country, love of country, is somehow not enough, when it really is. That's why we are proud of our men and women in uniform because service to country and love of country comes first.
HILL: Secretary Panetta, I appreciate you taking the time to join us tonight. Thank you.
PANETTA: Thank you.
HILL: Also with us, Maggie Haberman, White House correspondent for "The New York Times", CNN political analyst.
You know, the end there what we were talking about with Secretary Panetta, I know you have some reporting and other comments that the president has made in private, specifically his take on those who served in Vietnam. But it's fascinating the private comments that are coming out versus what the president wants his public persona to be when it comes to where he believes he does stand and should stand for the men and women in this country who have chosen to serve.
[19:40:12]
And there's a big difference between the two.
MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yeah. Erin, that's right, look, at the end of the day, the president is well aware that he needs the support of the members of the military in his re-election effort. So, he has repeatedly tried to portray himself as allied with the military.
He frequently says falsely that the military was depleted when he arrived and he rebuilt it. It's true he focused on aspects of funding. But he has also been very publicly disparaging of John McCain who he had a fight over a land use and loans that the president sought as a developer going back to 1996. He has questioned why anyone would serve in Vietnam. He suggested people who did go were too dumb to find a way to get out of it. He himself did not go and claim that it was because of bone spurs.
So, I think you've seen this over a long period of time, people who have been over him not just the last couple of years but over a lengthy stretch, have heard him say things like this because he can't and this is really I think the thrust of the "Atlantic" article is he cannot imagine anything that is not a transaction. He cannot imagine doing something where you don't get monetary or celebrity or some immediate tangible benefit.
HILL: That it could be for someone else, or for the greater good or for your country as opposed to for yourself.
Vice President Biden seizing on all of this. I want to play quickly some of what he had to say today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Duty, honor, country, these are values that drive our service members. President Trump has demonstrated he has no sense of service, no loyalty to any cause other than himself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: Maggie, how concerned tonight, do you think the campaign is about the president's standing with both veterans and those who are currently serving?
HABERMAN: Erica, they're worried. This is something that I've been talking to people about throughout the day. They knew that this was something they had to push back on. This was something, unlike a lot of what has happened in this campaign amid an economic crisis and the coronavirus, not much is punched through the voters, who not a huge segment of them who are undecided, but voters who are undecided might pay attention to. The campaign knows this is something that could.
The president's advisers know they don't have a lot of capital with senior military figures to call on to ask them to come and defend him. They worry also this is the beginning of a slow drip of people speaking out. Remember, there are a couple of major moments yet to come. One is going to come out in a week and a half. That could contain more revelations just like this.
HILL: Maggie, appreciate it, thank you.
OUTFRONT next, growing questions about the case involving the death of a black man after police covered his head and pinned him to the ground. Why did it take so long for details to make their way to top officials?
And just who is propping up Kanye West's run for president?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:47:04]
HILL: Tonight, growing questions about why the video showing the arrest of Daniel Prude was not revealed until this week despite the incident taking place back in March. Prude died of suffocation after the police officers placed a spit sock, a type of bag, over his head and pinned him to the ground.
City officials say they didn't publicly share information about Prude's arrest because the New York attorney general's office had asked them not to do so. But the A.G.'s office says that's not the case.
OUTFRONT, Willy Lightfoot, vice president of the Rochester, New York City Council.
Mr. Lightfoot, good to have you with us.
So, you say you didn't learn the details of the case until the video was released. Why do you think it took so long for both you and the public to find out about this? Who dropped the ball?
WILLY LIGHTFOOT, ROCHESTER, NY CITY COUNCIL VICE PRESIDENT: Well, first of all, thank you for having me on your show. I just want to say that my condolences and my heartfelt prayers goes to the Prude family first and foremost. This was a devastating blow that was dealt to our city, a traumatic blow, that has been dealt to our city. And we're trying to unpack it as we speak.
We found out about this on Wednesday -- council found out about this on Wednesday, and I immediately called for a briefing from the mayor and the administration to brief council on what transpired. As we were told, that information was given to the mayor by the police chief and corporate counsel, city's corporate counsel, advised her not to speak to the matter to counsel.
So, that was what we were told in our briefing. Of course, a lot of our counselors, including myself, were highly upset, very upset about this going on in our city.
HILL: And did you address that with the mayor, that you were upset not only that it was happening, but you were upset it was withheld.
LIGHTFOOT: Not only did we address it. We actually sent -- we drafted a letter that we sent to -- from all council members to Attorney General James, making request for her to address the community, put additional resources and investigators to expedite the investigation and to clarify the opinion of legal counsel that city could not share more broadly.
Then we drafted a letter to the mayor and hand delivered it to the mayor from counsel asking all officers be put on administrative leave immediately, that charges against the protesters arrested the day before be dropped, and that the city put additional funds utilize bid the current city and county.
HILL: Really quickly because I want to get to one other question. Are you satisfied with the response you've had thus far?
LIGHTFOOT: I am not. You know, but we still have another tour. City counsel can subpoena. So, we have to have a conversation as council member about exercising that tool that we have.
[19:50:01]
We have a council member, Council Member Mitch Gruber, who sent a letter to look at us having a discussion to use subpoena power and being able to figuring out who, what, when, and how, and get the receipts.
HILL: Last night, I spoke with one of Daniel Prude's daughters who was understandably devastated, especially after seeing this video. Here's a little bit of what she told us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TASHYRA PRUDE, DAUGHTER OF DANIEL PRUDE: There is video footage of these people suffocating my father. My father was murdered by these police officers. There is no reason to be on a paid suspension. They should be arrested and they should be tried as the killers that they are.
They are murderers and it's no other way to put this. I feel like this is a slap in the face to us, and that's a slap on the wrist to these officers. They're getting away with murder as we speak.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: Do you agree? Should these officers be charged with murder?
LIGHTFOOT: Absolutely. They should be charged with murder. Other heads should -- people should be fired.
HILL: Who?
LIGHTFOOT: And I believe you have to look at people, you know, like corporate counsel, the police chief. You have to look at individuals that knew about this and did not share this as vice president of city council.
HILL: Are you saying the mayor should step down?
LIGHTFOOT: From reports, public reports that she made, she was given misinformation and advice from corporate counsel. So, based on those reports, my surmise from that is that corporate counsel, police chief, definitely should be addressed immediately. And those officers should be fired and we should look at more of our policy practice and procedure around community policing.
HILL: Sir, appreciate you joining us tonight. We'll continue to follow the story. Thank you.
LIGHTFOOT: Thank you.
HILL: OUTFRONT next, Kanye West doesn't have a shot at being the next U.S. president but he could impact who does win.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He can garner enough votes to determine the outcome of this election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:50:59]
HILL: Tonight, the reality is Kanye West doesn't have a chance to be president but could play a role in deciding who wins in November.
Sara Murray is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Despite his predictions, Kanye West is not going to be the next the president. So far, the rap super star has only made the ballot in 11 states, missing so many others he can't mathematically win. Yet across the country, GOP operatives and lawyers are bolstering West's presidential bid, betting his campaign will skim off support from Joe Biden and boost President Trump's chances of getting reelected.
QUENTIN JAMES, FOUNDER & PRESIDENT OF THE COLLECTIVE PAC: Unfortunately, I think it's a ploy Republicans are using Kanye to diminish Joe Biden's votes.
MURRAY: Critics like Quentin James who works to elect black candidates says GOP efforts to prop up West are particularly shameless in light of West's diagnosis with bipolar disorder, which is marked with swings between mania and depression. West has said he does not take medication for it.
JAMES: It's really sad and, you know, we wish Kanye the best of getting his mental health under control but again, this is not what we want to see in politics.
KANYE WEST, RAPPER: I'm not running for president. I'm walking.
MURRAY: Still, Republicans are turning up to help West. One source tells CNN GOP operatives believed they had the Trump campaign's blessing to aid West's efforts.
GOP lawyer Lane Ruhland who is also doing legal work for the Trump campaign dropped off signatures for West's attempt to get on the ballot in Wisconsin.
Mark Jacoby, an executive at Let the Voters Decide, is helping West collect signatures in multiple states. He previously pleaded guilty to voter registration fraud for his work for the California Republican Party. A representative for the company said any focus on Jacoby's record has nothing to do with any political campaign and is misplaced and irresponsible.
GREG KELLER, REPUBLICAN OPERATIVE: Hello, American conservatives.
MURRAY: Half a dozen GOP operatives say at the heart of the effort is Greg Keller, a Republican and former executive director at the American Conservative Union, who has been recruiting other Republicans to get involved.
Ruhland, Keller, and half a dozen others involve in the campaign did not respond to request for comment. While West has pulled around 2 percent with registered voters, any third party candidate can pose a risk in a tight race.
TERRANCE WOODBURY, PARTNER, HIT STRATEGIES: Kanye West will not garner enough votes to become president but he can garner enough votes to determine the outcome of this election.
MURRAY: The president in his campaign insists they have nothing to do with West's efforts.
TRUMP: I like Kanye very much. No, I have nothing to do with him getting on the ballot.
MURRAY: West did not respond to requests for comments, also brushed aside rumors that he's in cahoots with Republicans.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're saying that they are paying you to do what you're doing to be a distraction.
WEST: Bro, can't nobody pay me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got more money than Trump.
WEST: I got more money than Trump.
MURRAY: As West set off controversy after controversy in recent years, including by supporting Trump.
WEST: I love this guy here. Let me give this guy a hug right here. I love this guy right here.
TRUMP: Come here. That's so nice. That's from the heart. I didn't want to put you in that position. That's from the heart. Special guy.
MURRAY: He's also been open about his bipolar disorder in interviews and his music.
(MUSIC)
MURRAY: His campaign kickoff prompted concerns.
WEST: We are trapped in a loop. We are going to break that trap.
MURRAY: As West broke into tears talking about abortion and his relationship with his family after his wife Kim Kardashian West asked for compassion, writing: We as a society talk about giving grace to the issue of mental health as a whole. However, we should also give it to the individuals who are living with it in times when they need it the most.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WEST: Now, while the West campaign got good news they will be on the ballot in Kentucky, they got a double whammy earlier this week when they were blocked from the ballot in Virginia, as well as Arizona.
Back to you, Erica.
HILL: All right. Sara, thank you.
And thanks to all of you for joining us tonight.
"AC360" starts right now.
