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Erin Burnett Outfront
Bolton on Trump's "Standby" Remark: "It was a Real Threat"; WH Refuses to Unequivocally Denounce White Supremacists; Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms (D-GA) Atlanta Discusses About President Trump's Silence on Denouncing White Supremacy; Bolton: "I'm Worried" Trump Thinks His Only Road to Reelection may be "Keeping Things in a Satte of Chaos"; Message Inside White House Early in Pandemic: Masks Not "A Good Look"; Rep. Katie Porter (D-CA) is Interviewed About Biden Distancing Himself from Progressives Amid Trump Attacks. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired October 01, 2020 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Once again the new book entitled The Threat: How the FBI Protects America in the Age of Terror and Trump. Thanks for joining us.
Erin Burnett OUTFRONT starts right now.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next, what is it with Trump and white supremacist? The White House today refusing to unequivocally denounce white supremacist. Why is this so hard?
Plus, the leader of the far-right group, the Proud Boys, Trump told to stand by is also the leader of a grassroots group for Trump. Yet the President says he doesn't know who the Proud Boys are.
And when it comes to masks in the White House, it comes down to looks of Trump's obsession and vanity, his vanity cost lives. Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, why can't Trump quit white supremacists? The President and his White House again today unable and unwilling to unambiguously denounce white supremacy. Here's the exchange first between the White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany and a Fox News reporter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN ROBERTS, FOX NEWS REPORTER: As the person who speaks for the President, does the President denounce white supremacism and groups that espouse it in all their forms?
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This has been answered yesterday by the President himself, the day before by the President himself on the debate stage. The President was asked this he said sure, three times. Yesterday, he was point-blank asked, "Do you denounce white supremacy?" And he said, I've always denounced any form of that.
ROBERTS: Just to clear it up this morning, can you naming it make a declarative statement that the President denounces it?
MCENANY: I just did. The President has denounced this repeatedly.
ROBERTS: There were a bunch of quotes from the past, can you ...
MCENANY: The President was asked this. You're contriving a storyline and a narrative.
ROBERTS: No, I'm not. I'm just asking you to put this to rest.
MCENANY: I just did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: I just want to make it clear. John is a great reporter. He's from Fox News. He's pushing it. He wanted the answers because they have not been giving them. She says he said these things. It's not what he said. His answer in the debate, which is why John Roberts is making that question, was anything but clear and anything but unequivocal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS WALLACE, MODERATOR: But are you willing tonight to condemn white supremacists and militia groups and to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence and a number of these cities as we saw in Kenosha and as we've seen in Portland?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Sure, I'm willing to do that.
WALLACE: Are you prepared to specifically ...
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Well, do it.
WALLACE: Go ahead, sir.
TRUMP: But I would say almost everything I see is from the left wing, not from the right wing.
WALLACE: So what are you saying?
TRUMP: I'm willing to do anything. I want to see peace.
WALLACE: Well, do it, sir.
BIDEN: Say it. Do it. Say it.
TRUMP: You want to call them - what do you want to call them? Give me a name. Give me a name.
WALLACE: White supremacists and white ...
TRUMP Go ahead. Who would you like me to condemn?
BIDEN: White supremacist, the Proud Boys. WALLACE: ... white supremacist and (INAUDIBLE) ...
TRUMP: Proud Boys, stand back and stand by. But I'll tell you what, I'll tell you what, somebody's got to do something about Antifa and the left, because this is not a right-wing problem. This is a left- wing problem.
BIDEN: His own FBI Director said (INAUDIBLE) ...
WALLACE: Go ahead, sir.
BIDEN: ... white supremacist, Antifa is an idea, not an organization.
TRUMP: Oh, you got to be kidding me.
BIDEN: Not militia.
TRUMP: (INAUDIBLE) ...
BIDEN: That's what his FBI Director said.
WALLACE: Gentlemen ...
TRUMP: Well, then ...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Imagine, just watching that again, you've got to think about it. Give me a name for it. The name is white supremacy and he doesn't want to do it. He doesn't want to say it. It really is not hard and yet Trump cannot do it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Yes. I think there's blame on both sides. You look at both sides, I think there's blame on both sides and I have no doubt about it, and you don't have any doubt about it, either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest ...
TRUMP: Excuse me, excuse me, they didn't put themselves in (INAUDIBLE) and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does it concern you that many people saw that tweet as racist and that white nationalist groups are finding common cause with you on that point?
TRUMP: It doesn't concern me, because many people agree with me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: I mean, again and again, given the opportunity to condemn white supremacy, he doesn't do it and you remember this? I mean, I remember it. I actually remember where I was sitting when I saw this retweet of a video in June. The President retweeted that person from The Villages, remember the supporter yelling white power as the golf cart goes across the screen screaming it, he retweeted it.
So that's why the White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany was asked directly today about that and as she was leaving the room, she was asked if the President condemns the term white supremacy. She didn't respond.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why hasn't the President condemned white power? Why hasn't he condemned that tweet?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:05:02]
BURNETT: That's the tweet, the yelling white power. He wouldn't condemn it. The silence, it speaks so much along with the President's non-answers and word games and semantics. It speaks volumes.
Kaitlan Collins is OUTFRONT live outside the White House tonight. And Kaitlan, you also press the White House press secretary today to denounce white supremacy. You asked about it. Why are they refusing to just come out and do it?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It's a pattern we've seen before Erin, where the White House has reluctantly refused to come out and just simply unambiguously put those words in a statement. We've seen it with the President dating back to that press conference in Charlottesville, because you'll remember after that, he then came to the White House, gave this scripted speech where he condemned neo- Nazis and KKK members.
But then the next day, he was saying that there weren't all neo-Nazis in that group in Charlottesville. They weren't all white supremacists. So often he has backpedal on the statements that the White House is now citing to say that he has condemned white supremacy and these far- right groups before.
And, of course, we all saw what the President said about the Proud Boys on Tuesday night before obscure group of these far-right extremists who have endorsed violence. And now the idea that the President has denounced them seems to fall flat when you look at how they're responding to the President's remarks by using it as this newly adopted logo printing it on T-shirts some of them have told reporters, things of that nature.
They clearly do not see it as a denouncement and it's not just them, Erin, it's Republicans as well, even coming out and calling on the President to more forcefully deny this and come out against it. And as you noted, it's not just semantics. It's not just what the President says, because we all heard the FBI Director testified just a few months ago saying that they do believe that this at-home extremism, which shows its face in the way of white supremacy more often than not, is one of the biggest domestic threats facing the United States.
So when the President will come out and condemn it, of course, it does matter.
BURNETT: Yes, it does. So well said. Kaitlan, thank you.
It's true. They have said it and the FBI said this is one of the biggest threats facing the United States, so it should not be something a president should have to question or dodge around, beat around the bush.
OUTFRONT now the Democratic Mayor of Atlanta, Keisha Lance Bottoms. Mayor Bottoms, I just want to - when Kayleigh McEnany walked off the podium today and she was asked, can you just come out and categorically denounce white supremacy and white power, in that that tweet that he retweeted, where he - the person who's screaming white supremacy, she refused to do it. Silence. What's your reaction?
MAYOR KEISHA LANCE BOTTOMS (D-GA), ATLANTA: They refuse to do it, because he then denounced white supremacy. It's as simple as that. There's a quote from Maya Angelou, when someone shows you who they are, believe them, they know themselves better than you do.
This president knows himself and he's had time after time and opportunity after opportunity to say this is not who I am and he refuses to do it. And my concern as we go into November and this election season is this, what we know is that when we've had movements across this country, you think about the civil rights movement, we could disagree on policy, but it took for good people to stand up and say, I will not stand with hate.
And my concern going into November is that we don't have enough good people standing up saying, I may not support you, your politics. I may not agree with your policy. We may have a different party affiliation, but I will not stand with hate and that's what it's going to take this November and it is so heartbreaking to watch in 2020 and have to explain this to my children.
BURNETT: So today when McEnany was on that podium and I want to be clear, her white power response was contemporaneous with that tweet. Today, she tried to say President Trump didn't know who the Proud Boys were. So when he's on the debate stage in that soundbite we once again played, when it was to denounce white supremacy in all its forms and he says that give it a name. He said stand back and stand by.
Now, of course, Proud Boys has been mentioned many times on Fox News which the President watches religiously. They attend his rallies. But even if you can't prove that he knows them, the group heard him loud and clear, the Wisconsin Proud Boys chapter tweeting, Mayor, "We're going to have some fun discussing our President's upcoming orders."
And I just want to be clear to two viewers, the group's ideology labeled misogynistic, Islamophobic, transphobic and anti-immigration by the Anti-Defamation League. How damaging is this? Actually, let's use the word dangerous. "We're going to have some fun discussing our President's upcoming orders." BOTTOMS: Erin, I was looking back at my notes because as I was listening to the clip waiting (INAUDIBLE) ...
BURNETT: Yes.
BOTTOMS: ... I heard it a different way this time.
[19:10:08]
When I heard him say but someone has to do something about Antifa and the left, for the first time I heard it in the context of was this his call to the Proud Boys and others to do something about it and the left. So I heard it in a different way and clearly that's how they heard it and have responded to it as well.
But at the end of the day, this is the President of the United States of America. And the fact that she will not denounce these groups and that they are responding to a call for action from him, clearly speak to how important this race is. Elections do have consequences and the consequences of him being re-elected President of the United States can set this country back in a way that will take us back to a time before my lifetime.
BURNETT: So today, there are people saying, well, stand back and stand by. He just was looking for words. The President, I don't think gets enough credit for choosing his words. I think personally, he chooses them very carefully, many times when people say he doesn't and this is one of those times.
And his former National Security Adviser John Bolton specifically asked about that, stand back and stand by on CNN just moments ago, was this purposeful by the President, here's what John Bolton said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BOLTON, U.S. FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: I took that to me and just back off for now, but to put it a different way, keep your powder dry. I thought it was a real threat and I think he knew exactly what he meant.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: I thought it was a real threat. I think he knew exactly what he meant. Do you agree?
BOTTOMS: I absolutely agree. It was a call to action and he's already said that he's not going to accept the results of this election. And he is essentially telling us that he is going to call for civil war in our streets when he loses this election.
And there can't be any question about where this election is going to end up. People have to vote in record numbers and they have to vote in such a way that there won't be any question on election night and begin on that. And if it is, it's my hope that people got conscience in Congress and those around the President will peacefully transition power, because this is not America, this is like we're watching 1910 [00:02:31] that just won't in.
BURNETT: So we're learning tonight, I don't know if you had heard this, because I was really just finding this out, Mayor Bottoms. The leader of the Proud Boys is also the leader of a grassroots movement, Latinos for Trump, not run by the campaign, but a group that is Hispanics for Trump, Latinos, I'm sorry, for Trump.
Trump though continues to say he does not know the group. Do you believe it? Do you believe that he hasn't know Proud Boys?
BOTTOMS: I don't believe it at all. He knows exactly who they are and (INAUDIBLE) they know who they are, he should know who they are. He's the President of the United States and this group has been designated as a hate group in our country. So either way, it would be disturbing. If he doesn't know he should know, because he's the President, but I just don't believe him. I think that he is lying.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Mayor Bottoms, I appreciate your time.
And to her point, I should point out, on the Fox News shows the President watches the Proud Boys have been mentioned as ardent passionate supporters of the President, as militias, it would be hard to imagine he had not seen that and did not know them. Thank you very much, Mayor Bottoms.
I want to go now to John Avlon, our Senior Political Reporter, analyst and author of the book Wingnuts: How the Lunatic Fringe is Hijacking America.
So john, I have your book, you have written an entire book on exactly this topic, right?
JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.
BURNETT: And the Proud Boys are clearly watching what President Trump says very closely. They see this as encouragement and endorsement. The group's chairman writing on social media, "So proud of my guys right now." This is not a denouncement for them. This is an endorsement. So what are you learning about this group and other right-wing groups on how they're reacting?
AVLON: Look, the problem boys are a newer movement that's part of a larger tributary of what called themselves patriot groups. They're sort of an alt right paramilitary group, but there are a lot of different groups in this organization, some that I wrote about in Wingnuts for the oathkeepers, the three percenters.
What's interesting about these groups is that they emerged around 10 years ago in reaction to the presidency of Barack Obama. But they would say that they just trusted the government no matter the party, but since Donald Trump has been president, they have rallied around this president. The Proud Boys are vocal supporters.
To your point, they've appeared on Fox News all the time. The President heard that name and recognized it. And he in the past when asked by our colleague, Jake Tapper, about David Duke said, well, I don't even know who that is. He does.
[19:15:05]
Some of these organizations, they may call themselves militias. Other people say they're vigilantes, have performed volunteer security at Trump rallies in the case of the oathkeepers. And these are groups that are itching, in their words, for a second Civil War. I do not think that is the President's intent.
But when you tried to divide instinctively, as the President does, when you try to reduce faith in the legitimacy of our elections and refuse to commit to a peaceful transfer of power, that's the door you're opening and these people are in the wings waiting, make no mistake. They heard him.
BURNETT: It's when you open the Pandora's box, you can't just put it back in.
AVLON: Yes.
BURNETT: So I just played the John Bolton a few moments ago on CNN saying that he interpreted this as very purposeful by the President, the standby part. Keep your powder dry that it was a real threat. Do you have any doubt that John Bolton's interpretation is right?
AVLON: No, I don't. Because think about the question that Chris Wallace gave at the end, will you encourage your supporters to be civil in the run up to the election. And the President immediately pivoted to questions about valid security and occupying polling places and he's saying the election is a fraud before it's even begun, that's begging to be kicked to the courts or the streets.
And these folks do see a feedback loop between Antifa and themselves and a lot of them want this fight. And in that kind of chaos, I'm afraid some folks may want that and the President is stirring this pot. He's not so stupid that he doesn't know what he's doing here.
BURNETT: He's definitely stirring it intentionally. The question is, does he know what will come out. John Avlon, thank you very much.
And OUTFRONT next, a stunning move by one state that Democrats are calling blatant voter suppression as fears grow tonight that the President could be intimidating voters.
Plus, CNN learning staffers in the White House were not allowed to wear masks because it wasn't a 'good look'. Who's responsible for that?
And Joe Biden keeping the left-wing of his party at a distance, but can he keep them at bay?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:20:41]
BURNETT: Breaking news, John Bolton warning President Trump may try to wreak havoc on the presidential election to hang on to power.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOLTON: We can get through a close and contested election, but we need to do it clearly thinking about the consequences if we lose control and I'm worried that Trump sees what may be his only road to reelection in keeping things in a state of chaos. That's what he enjoys most.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: This as there are growing fears that President Trump is encouraging supporters to intimidate voters at the polls. Pamela Brown is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Go into the polls and watch very carefully.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT(voice over): President Trump's call for supporters to stake out polling places has state officials scrambling to respond to the potential for election day intimidation and possibly violence. The Massachusetts Attorney General is trying to calm her voters and warn about intimidation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAURA HEALEY, MASSACHUSETTS ATTORNEY GENERAL: We're not going to let Donald Trump undermine our election. It's a crime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN(voice over): And 11 governors united to condemn the President's message as a threat to democracy writing, "There is absolutely no excuse for promoting the intimidation or harassment of voters."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: In Philadelphia, they went into watch, they're called poll watcher. It's a very safe, very nice thing. They were thrown out. They weren't allowed to watch. You know why? Because bad things happen in Philadelphia, bad things.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN(voice over): But it wasn't a bad thing. Under state law, poll watchers are not allowed in early voting locations. But earlier that day, a false narrative began when a Trump campaign staffer claimed Pennsylvania Democrats were scheming against the President asking in a tweet, "What are they hiding?"
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOHN FETTERMAN, (D) LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR OF PENNSYLVANIA: No one's being turned away because there aren't poll watchers in these satellite offices. That is complete propaganda.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN(voice over): The RNC aims to dispatch 10s of thousands of election monitors across the country, which both parties are entitled to do.
This was the scene outside of Fairfax, Virginia early voting location in September, where Trump supporters gathered outside shouting and waving flags. Some voters said they felt intimidated by it and were moved inside to wait, but it's not clear this was a legal voter intimidation.
The Attorney General said Trump's debate comments were specifically designed to quote harass and intimidate voters and won't be tolerated. And language in Republican-sponsored Facebook ads directing supporters to a campaign website called Army for Trump is raising concerns.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP JR., EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION: We need every able bodied man or woman to join Army for Trump's election security operation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN(voice over): As is this ad warning supporters Democrats are trying to tip the scales and to fight back. Voters and other states will now encounter issues voting absentee at all. In Texas, the Governor just limited the number of ballot drop boxes to one per county. That will be a cut from 11 drop boxes in the sprawling democratic stronghold of Harris County.
The Republican Governor says the order was to promote balance security. Democrats call it voter suppression.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And one of those counties impacted there in Texas is Harris County, as mentioned. That is a county with millions of people bigger than the State of Rhode Island and now it will only go down to one drop box according to the Governor's proclamation today. But now Democrats in that State, they are fighting back and they are saying that they will soon be filing suit against this, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Pamela, thank you very much.
And I want to go straight now to the Attorney General of Virginia, Democrat Mark Herring. And I appreciate your time, Attorney General.
So when you look at all this, do you believe that the President is actually trying to intimidate voters to suppress their votes or is that a bridge too far? MARK HERRING, (D) ATTORNEY GENERAL OF VIRGINIA: Well, first, let me be very clear about this, Erin, voter intimidation is never acceptable and it's not going to be tolerated in Virginia. We will have free and fair elections and I'm going to make sure of that.
Now, the President's words, I think, the implications of them were clear. It seemed to me as though he was encouraging supporters to go to the polls, hang out and potentially be disruptive. And so what we saw happen the day after early voting started in Fairfax.
[19:25:01]
When I heard reports that some voters felt threatened and intimidated to the point where they asked them elections officials for escorts back to their car, I thought it was important to act quickly to get the word out to all Virginians that voter intimidation can be a crime, it's not going to be tolerated. And we will have fair elections that people can have confidence in and people should have confidence in our electoral system and their vote will count whether it's in-person or by mail.
BURNETT: So there's the stand back and standby from the President just in the debate. And then Donald Trump Jr., let me just play again what he said in the video to supporters last week about this issue, he's very specific.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP, JR.: We need every able bodied man, woman to join army for Trump's election security operation at defendyourballot.com. We need you to help us watch them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: We need you to help us watch them, able bodied, Army for Trump at the polls, does language like this concern you?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HERRING: It is very disturbing and to me it is another tactic in Trump's effort to try to feel legitimize the electoral system to try to undermine people's confidence in it and that's wrong. People can have confidence in our electoral system and if people show up and start intimidating or threatening voters, there are laws that protect voters that will keep them safe and elections officials have tools that I have told them about that they have to address those situations if they come up.
But this is all part of the President's effort to undermine people's confidence in the electoral system to make it harder for Americans to vote by mail, if that's how they choose to do it, just as he did by weaponizing the Postal Service and we've been able to get injunctions to prevent that. But this is a constant effort and we will see more of this.
But I thought it was important get out early and quickly to make sure that everyone knew that there are laws to protect voters and keep them safe.
BURNETT: So John Bolton says he believes the threat from the President on standby to the Proud Boys was a real one. It's not rhetorical, it was real. Trump's former longtime fixer, Attorney Michael Cohen, was on with me last night and here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER TRUMP ATTORNEY: They look like an army, they dress like an army, they behave like an army and what banner, what flag are they carrying? They're carrying the MAGA flag. So this is now in Trump's mind, this is Trump's army and he's going to use them when he loses and he's going to use them in order to try to keep control of power.
BURNETT: So standby to you was standby when I need you to standby.
COHEN: Oh, 100 percent, standby for me because he knows he's going to lose the election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Cohen, Bolton both know the President well. They say it's real. Do you agree?
HERRING: Well, unfortunately, I do. And we have seen this before. Virginia, in Charlottesville, had the worst white supremacist rally that anyone could remember. And what did Trump say, oh, there are fine people on both sides. And to the white supremacists, they took that as affirmation that the President was a fellow traveler with them.
And so we have to take these words seriously, but we also need to make it clear to all Americans and for me, for all Virginians, to make sure that they know that we will keep them safe, that their votes will count. We are going to make sure of it, whether it's in-person or by mail.
And then I know there's a lot of anxiety too around this upcoming election, but I would encourage people to channel those emotions into volunteering or having conversations with friends and neighbors about the importance of this election and above all, vote.
BURNETT: All right. Attorney General Herring, I appreciate your time. Thank you.
HERRING: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, the President moving ahead tonight with two rallies in a state that has just posted a record number of coronavirus deaths.
Plus, Joe Biden keeping the left-wing of his party at arm's length. How long though will progressives hold their fire?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And they're going to dominate you, Joe, you know that. BIDEN: I am the Democratic Party right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:33:15]
BURNETT: Tonight, it's not a good look. Those are the words the administration official who detailed for CNN why the Trump White House did not want its staffers wearing masks. It came down to the optics of it.
According to multiple officials, the National Security Council ordered masks for its staff in February, but when word got out, the masks were shelved by the West Wing. One official telling our Vivian Salama, quote, if you have the whole West Wing running around wearing masks, it wasn't a good look when all they wanted to do at that point was portray confidence and make the public believe there's absolutely nothing to worry about.
And who is responsible for making masks about optics and nothing to worry about and not about safety?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't know, somehow I don't see it for myself.
I didn't want to give the press the pleasure of seeing it.
I don't wear masks like him. Every time you see him, he's got a mask. He could be speaking 200 feet away and he shows up with the biggest mask I've ever seen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Trump shunning masks, mocking masks, making fun of other people who wear them, doing it all over Twitter.
One White House official telling "The Washington Post" and I quote: The president seeing it as a weakness to wear masks, when, of course, it is a sign of strength.
But that mindset has cost lives. The IHME model which the ones, you know, cited by the White House projects that if 94 percent of Americans wear masks, just in public, right, just in public when you're close to other people, 100,000 people who are currently alive will be alive on January 1st. Otherwise, those 100,000 people are going to die, OK?
So, it's life or death.
Here's Dr. Jha, the dean of the Brown University School of Public Health, on this show.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ASHISH JHA, DEAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Two hundred thousand fellow Americans have died in the last seven months. If we have done what large number of countries have done, take the virus seriously, implement public health measures, 80 percent, 90 percent of those people would be alive today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:35:08]
BURNETT: Eighty percent to 90 percent, basic public health measures. That is masks, social distancing. That is at least 166,000 people, every single one of them, someone, a son, a daughter, a mother, a father, they would be alive today. They are not, OK?
The U.S. death toll is more than 207,000, saying 166,000 of those people could be alive. That's just a basic thing like a mask. Twenty- seven states even now are heading in the wrong direction when it comes to cases, right? The model cited by the White House is predicting a doubling of deaths by the end of the year.
And the president is heading this weekend, where, to Wisconsin, the state in a midst of a major outbreak. He's going to hold two rallies. Just today, that state setting a new record in cases and hospitalizations. Deaths are going up.
OUTFRONT now, someone who served in both the Trump and Obama administrations, the former secretary of Veterans Affairs under President Trump, Dr. David Shulkin.
Dr. Shulkin, you know this president, you've served in his administration. Does it surprise you to hear that the administration failed to promote mask use early on when frankly it would have been a complete and utter game changer because it, quote, wasn't a good look?
DR. DAVID SHULKIN, FORMER SECRETARY OF VETERANS AFFAIRS: Erin, first of all, thank you for having me on.
You know, it's not a particularly good look when you're lying in a hospital bed or worse yet when you're in a funeral home either. So, unfortunately, I think what we're seeing here is a flaw in decision- making. And when you go with an initial impulse or you have one person making decisions, you don't get the ability to consider the other points of view and understand the consequences of those decisions.
And when you run a big organization like I have or particularly when you're running government, you need people who you invite to push back and to say, you know what? Maybe that's not a good idea. Let's think about what the implications would be.
And, unfortunately, we're now seeing those maybe unintended consequences of that decision making in February. And it has cost us lives.
BURNETT: It has. SHULKIN: And that's really unfortunate.
BURNETT: Many, many lives. I mean, I'm sure, you know, one could have debates on the specifics. But certainly when you look at other countries where they made that mask move very early, it's dramatic. So, Dr. Jha saying 80 percent to 90 percent. That's 166,000 people who would be alive today who are dead.
Now, the United States in the baseline of cases, doctor in September, September 1st, and this is, you know, a function of a lot of things. But about 42,290 cases a day. The last day of September, yesterday, 42,812 new cases. So, we're not seeing decline in cases at all.
How much do masks have to do with this, right? You've got a lot of people who do refuse to wear them, in part because the president doesn't.
SHULKIN: Yeah, look, you know, we now know effective measures and I think it's the job of not only the health professionals but leaders across the country, those leading us in government, to have a consistent message on this.
And the fact that we're still here talking about this issue, as a physician, it really does pain me. We do know that in other countries, as you mentioned, particularly in countries like the Philippines and in Asia, their mask-wearing is far higher as a percentage of their population than we're still seeing in the United States. Yet this pandemic, as you mentioned, Erin, is not getting under control.
And we're not going to get this under control until we adopt a national consistent strategy and messaging and understand that when you're fighting a pandemic, time is not on your side. And every day that we don't do this is a missed opportunity for us.
BURNETT: And I -- and I just emphasize, again, the president's going to Wisconsin, two rallies, a state with a rising death count. The governor asked him not to do it. He's doing it.
I talked to an ER doctor in Green Bay, where one of the rallies is, he said for the first time in 16 years, he's got people in the halls because he -- waiting for treatment. He's outraged.
I don't know his politics. He's outraged by the situation and that people's lives have been at risk.
But, Doctor, I want to ask you about one other topic because you do know the president. And, obviously, everybody has been talking about the debate in the moment when he was asked to denounce white supremacy and he did not do so, right? He asked for a name.
Yesterday when asked if he condemned white supremacists, he said I've denounced any form of that, and still wouldn't explicitly say it. Let me play the exchange between a reporter and the White House press secretary today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REPORTER: As the person who speaks for the president, does the president denounce white supremacism and groups that espouse it in all their forms?
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This has been answered yesterday by the president himself, the day before by the president himself.
[19:40:02]
On the debate stage, the president was asked this. He said this sure three times.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: He didn't do that on the debate stage. The reporter who did that kept pressing and pressing and saying that there was no answer being given was from Fox News.
Why do you think it is that the president won't do this clearly?
SHULKIN: Well, Erin, I think it's the responsibility of any public official, certainly of the president, to be very clear and concise on his communication. And that clearly isn't happening here. And that's allowing this issue to continue to go on and on and frankly giving these groups way too much attention.
I was in the administration during the Charlottesville issue where the same thing happened, where there was not a clear communication.
And look, I think if one thing we as Americans can learn from history is that we can't stay silent. And I think it's so important that we all speak out-and-out against white supremacists and neo-Nazis.
I did that when I was secretary after the Charlottesville event, not knowing what the consequences would be, that I might be fired for saying that. But it is essential that we all speak up and make clear that this is not America. This is not what the veterans that I served when I was secretary fought for and gave their lives for, that we cannot have an America that has hate anywhere accepted. And frankly I wish the president would make that clear so that this would move on and off this topic.
BURNETT: Well, you join many others in that wish which, of course, he for some reason will not -- will not do.
Dr. Shulkin, I appreciate your time and thank you.
I want to go now to Dr. Jonathan Reiner, director of the cardiac cath lab at G.W. who advised the White House medical team under President George W. Bush.
So, Dr. Reiner, on this reporting that we have here, the White House thought masks were not a good look. And you know, you heard Secretary Shulkin say this needed to come from the leadership, right? It didn't. The president, we know, he doesn't like how they look. He mocks people for wearing them.
What did you think when you heard this reporting? Just to emphasize again this was back in February when the president is calling eight plague to Bob Woodward, they were going to put on masks and then didn't. I mean, you could have saved a lot of lives.
DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Oh, it's a crime. It's really a crime against American humanity.
Look, we know that as early as January 28th, the president's national security adviser told him that this was going to be the greatest threat against his presidency, this virus. But yet, 34 times he told the public that this virus was just going to go away.
Imagine if you went to a doctor complaining of symptoms and the doctor ran some tests and the doctor found you had an early treatable form of cancer but never told you until your symptoms worsen dramatically and your cancer was metastatic.
That's what happened to this country. By not telling the country to mask up, by continuing to play down the risks, this virus got out of control. The president knew -- he was clear-eyed about it.
He knew early in January what was happening. He chose politics over the public health.
BURNETT: Dr. Reiner, thank you.
REINER: My pleasure.
BURNETT: And next, we're going to take you to a key swing state to see how the debate or if the debate is changing minds.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I agree with some of the things he's doing like in trade and, you know, taxes. But he scares me and I can't vote for him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And debate moderator Chris Wallace, he's speaking out now for the first time. His explanation for why the debate went so terribly wrong.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:47:37]
BURNETT: Tonight, Vice President Pence continuing the Trump campaign's ongoing effort to paint Joe Biden as a hostage of the far left.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When you look at their agenda, one thing is clear. Joe Biden would be nothing more than a Trojan horse for the radical left. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: But that's a label that Biden is actively and clearly rejecting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I beat the socialists. That's how I got elected. That's how I got the nomination.
TRUMP: Your party wants to go socialist medicine --
BIDEN: My party is me.
TRUMP: -- and socialist health care.
BIDEN: Right now, I am the Democratic Party.
TRUMP: And they're going to dominate you, Joe. You know that.
BIDEN: I am the Democratic Party right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OUTFRONT now, Congressman Katie Porter. Before she endorsed Joe Biden, she had supported Senator Elizabeth Warren for president.
So, Congresswoman Porter, you're an influential and progressive voice. Are you concerned that Joe Biden is making it clear he defeated the socialists, he wants nothing to do with the most progressive wing of your party?
REP. KATIE PORTER (D-CA): Well, I think what Joe Biden is doing is trying to talk about solutions for American families. And I think that's where the debate was really a missed opportunity for the American people to hear what Joe Biden's going to do on problems like the price of prescription drugs, on problems like restarting our economy. And I think that there's widespread agreement among Democrats across ideologies that we need to tackle these problems in a way that the White House is refusing to.
BURNETT: So, you know, obviously in the debate though at that moment, you know, Biden was defensive. He was, like, the party is me, right? And Trump is trying to taunt him. Well, they're going to dominate you.
There was a moment, right, where Biden said he didn't support the Green New Deal. On his website, he says -- he does. Green New Deal is obviously very important to progressives in your party.
How long do you think that some of the more progressive people in your party are going to be willing to hold their fire and not criticize Biden, saying he's being too moderate?
PORTER: There will be a time after Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are elected when our party will try to shape what that Biden-Harris agenda looks like. And that's important. That's important work that my colleagues and I and voters around this country need to be doing.
But right now, the American public faces a choice and it's a choice between Joe Biden and Donald Trump. And I strongly urge -- I think it's really important that people understand that's what it comes down to in November.
The decision on what the Biden agenda should be, how fast and hard they should tackle problems like climate change, those are discussions for December and January.
[19:50:03]
BURNETT: So Trump's stance on white supremacy was one of the biggest moments of the debate, of course, and the debate's moderator, Fox News anchor Chris Wallace, is speaking out in his first television interview since the debate. He says Trump bears the primary responsibility of what went so very wrong.
Here's Chris Wallace.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: I had baked this beautiful, delicious cake, and then frankly, the president put his foot in it. And that was frustrating because -- frustrating for me, because I tried hard to prepare for a serious debate, much more frustrating and more importantly for the American people, because they didn't get the debate they wanted, and that they deserved.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Now they're talking about formats, changing for orderly discussion. Is there any reason to believe that Trump will follow any rules at this point, Congresswoman?
PORTER: Well, he didn't follow the rules last time, and Chris Wallace quite politely several times reminded him that he had, in fact, and his campaign had agreed to follow the rules.
No, I don't know that President Trump will follow the rules next time. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.
You know, as a parent, when I tell my kids to pick up their clothes, they don't always pick them up the next day, but I keep reminding them. I stick to my principles. The American people, regardless of ideology, regardless of who they're planning to vote for, deserve to get meaningful answers to the important questions facing this country, about our economy, about jobs, about foreign affairs, and you can't have that if someone is interrupting constantly.
BURNETT: So, Congresswoman, you have gone viral for your incredibly tough questioning of CEOs, pharmaceutical CEO, yesterday, calling him out specifically for how his bonus went up by increasing the price of a cancer drug. And you've had so many moments like that.
In addition to that, though, you just mentioned being a parent, and you're a mother to three children, a single mother. All of them remote learning, combinations, whatever it is that you're dealing with. You did an interview I saw with my friend, Jen Rogers, and you said, quote: With three kids, the maximum in-person learning, the some total of minutes that I'll have all three children in school, so I can focus solely on my job is zero.
I found that whole article inspirational. I found what you're doing inspirational. I say it as a mom of three, and I was just thrilled to see that, that you're willing to put it out there and talk about how hard it is.
So let me ask you, how do you do it?
PORTER: Well, you know, I think no one really wants to look behind the curtain.
BURNETT: Yeah.
PORTER: It's definitely a juggling act. I have to cajole my kids to get off the video games or get off their Zoom so I have enough bandwidth if I'm doing something on video. There's a lot of times that I have to, you know, put a sign up that says quiet at the top of the stairs and hope they'll slow down and read it before they interrupt me.
You know, it takes a lot of patience for parents, and it takes a lot of patience for kids right now to deal with each other, and I'm grateful that my kids are good sports about it.
But I think, you know, one of the bigger policy issues is, we're not going to see women of school age kids have the economic recovery that we're going to see people without kids or men of school age kids have. And that's a policy problem.
BURNETT: I agree with you. I think it's important to raise it and to be honest about what you're dealing with. I thought the article was great, and I'm glad to -- glad to have you on as a fellow mother in the situation. Thank you.
PORTER: Thank you.
BURNETT: And with early voting already underway in the battleground state of Michigan, how are voters in one crucial swing state or county there, I'm sorry, viewing the election?
Jeff Zeleny is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For the next month, every day is Election Day here in Michigan, with voters dropping off their ballots in this exercise of drive-through democracy.
DON KALPIN, MACOMB COUNTY VOTER: I just got fired up. ZELENY: Don Kalpin has heard enough of this noisy presidential
campaign. The first debate was his final straw against President Trump.
KALPIN: And I agree with some of the things he's doing, like in trade and, you know, taxes. But he scares me. And I can't vote for him.
ZELENY (on camera): And you voted for Republican presidents before you said?
KALPIN: Many of them. I voted for Reagan. I voted for both Bushes. I probably have voted for more Republicans in my lifetime than I have Democrats.
ZELENY (voice-over): Kalpin, a retired utility worker, cast his vote for Joe Biden here in Macomb County, which could be one of the most instructive bellwethers on election night.
In 2016, Trump won Michigan by only 10,704 votes out of nearly 5 million casts, crumbling the blue Democratic wall of the Upper Midwest. He did so by winning big in Macomb, which Barack Obama twice carried.
The Macomb County Democratic chairman believes Trump's record will motivate tens of thousands of people who stayed home four years ago instead of voting for Hillary Clinton.
ED BRULEY, CHAIRMAN, MACOMB COUNTY DEMOCRATIC PARTY: Four years of President Trump has changed people. They now see what he actually didn't do.
We want someone who has a real plan to protect us, and to protect our health care.
ZELENY: The Trump campaign insists the president is in a stronger position now.
[19:55:02]
GENEVIEVE PETERS, TRUMP CAMPAIGN VOLUNTEER: We can actually get you signed up. So, one --
ZELENY: After consolidating Republicans and attracting new supporters.
PETERS: There's all these things going on in the Macomb County, and people are just absolutely on fire. On fire.
ZELENY: Yet Trump has consistently trailed Biden in Michigan polls. A new law to extend absentee voting and to allow voters to register on election day has some Trump supporters crying foul.
MARK FORTON, CHAIRMAN, MACOMB COUNTY REPUBLICAN PARTY: My only concern is fraud which is mail-in voting. Already we heard stories.
ZELENY: But those stories, just like the president's false claims on election integrity are unfounded. A larger worry for the Trump campaign may be found in moderate Republicans like Michael Taylor, the mayor of Sterling Heights, who voted for the president.
MAYOR MICHAEL TAYLOR (R), STERLING HEIGHTS, MICHIGAN: I thought maybe there's a possibility if he gets into office he'll be concerned about doing the work. That obviously isn't the case.
ZELENY: Taylor says he regrets supporting Trump and knows plenty of Republicans who feel the same, even if they're unwilling to say so publicly.
TAYLOR: I'm excited to vote against Donald Trump. I'm excited to vote for Joe Biden, too. But I can't wait to cast my vote to get Donald Trump out of office.
ZELENY: Jeff Zeleny, CNN, Sterling Heights, Michigan.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: And finally tonight, Michelle Obama, thanking the mayor of Atlanta. You see her earlier on this program, actually, Keisha Lance Bottoms, for allowing city employees to take paid leave to volunteer as poll workers.
The former first lady has been urging Americans to get out and vote. She is being featured in the new CNN original series, "FIRST LADIES".
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is, as Michelle puts it, no handbook for incoming first ladies.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The role of the first lady is a throwback. We set up the White House as a royal court, in a way. And I think for Michelle Obama, a modern woman, a career woman, to suddenly be the great man's wife, was an adjustment.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She describes the role as a strange kind of side car to the presidency.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The first lady is not a job. I mean, Hillary Clinton learned that when she turned it into a job. We don't want that. That's going too far.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She said, the one that she took the greatest inspiration from was Laura Bush.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After a bruising campaign, Michelle is determined to control her own message. She starts with a simple statement, deeper than it first appears.
REPORTER: How would you define your role as first lady?
MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER FIRST LADY: You know, I joke that my first job is going to be mom in chief, because with little kids, I have to make sure that their feet are on the ground.
(END VIDEOTAPE) BURNETT: You saw Kati Marton there in that clip. She's with me now, award winning journalist, author of several books, including "Hidden Power: Presidential Marriages that Shaped Our History".
So it's really great to have you with me.
You know, you've covered the lives of so many of these women, Edith Wilson, all the way to Laura Bush.
How do you think Michelle Obama compares to some of the nation's earlier first ladies?
KATI MARTON, AUTHOR, "HIDDEN POWER: PRESIDENTIAL MARRIAGES THAT SHAPED HISTORY": Well, first of all, Erin, let me commend CNN, even if I weren't involved with this documentary for the timing of this, in a time when we seemed to be on the verge of a nervous breakdown, I think we're all in the mood to change the subject and to find subjects that unifies us, ties that bind. There's no subject that binds us more as a nation and reminds us of who we are and where we came from than the story of the first ladies, which is really the story of the presidency.
And Michelle Obama has now joined the pantheon of the great first ladies, right alongside Eleanor Roosevelt. She was the first African- American first lady, which meant that much more scrutiny and frankly, she never set a foot wrong. And now she's gone on to become really first lady to the world.
She's written the best biography any first lady has ever written "Becoming". It's a global best seller. And we're now really looking for people to admire, looking for role models, and looking for things that unify us.
And she does that, she transcends politics. She's not interested in political office, and that gives her extra credibility and she's really played her hand beautifully.
BURNETT: So, Kati, before we go, who has been most effective as a first lady? I guess you could one or two has been most effective?
MARTON: Most effective? I have to say that Eleanor Roosevelt is still the gold standard. She was first lady for 12 years, which encompassed the Depression and World War II, and her husband, the president, was in a wheelchair. So she became FDR's legs, if you will. I would now -- I would now put Michelle Obama very close to that standard.
BURNETT: All right. Kati, thank you very much.
And I hope all of you hearing the excitement in Kati's voice, don't miss the premiere of "First Ladies", Sunday night at 10:00 Eastern, right here on CNN.
Thanks for watching.
Here's Anderson.
