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Erin Burnett Outfront
Trump Touts Antibody Therapy, Vows To Make It Free For Americans; Pence To Debate Despite Questions Over His COVID Exposure; Vice Presidential Debate Night. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired October 07, 2020 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: May they rest in peace and may their memories be a blessing. I'm Wolf Blitzer. Thanks very much for watching.
I'll be back in one hour. CNN special coverage of the vice presidential debate starts right now.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: And we are waiting the start of the first and only vice presidential debate of 2020 as a nation in crisis faces more uncertainty, given President Trump's COVID-19 infection and the growing outbreak in the White House. It is Debate Night in America and this is a special edition of OUTFRONT. I'm Erin Burnett.
Concerns about the President's health are raising the stakes for tonight's faceoff at the University of Utah in Salt Lake City. It's going to be a high pressure debate, both Vice President Mike Pence and Sen. Kamala Harris have to prove they have what it takes to fill that top job for the next four years as running mates to the two oldest presidential nominees in American history.
It's a pretty stunning thing to think about how crucial this is and we expect the coronavirus and the Trump administration's handling of it to be front and center during the face off. It will be a 90-minute debate. The pandemic's impact obvious on the stage as you see there, two plexiglass barriers have been put up to separate the candidates.
The Vice President's team challenged and even mocked those barriers before finally agreeing to them all while more members of the Trump- Pence administration have been testing positive for COVID-19. And I want to bring in Anderson, he's going to be with me this hour.
Anderson, the Debate Commission has changed, enhance the safety protocols since the President became ill and now we know it was possibly already infected during his debate with former Vice President Biden.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Yes, Erin. In addition to the plexiglass barriers, there'll be more distance between the vice presidential nominees than originally planned. Viewers will see Sen. Harris seated at a desk on the left of their TV screens. She's going to be 12 feet away from Vice President Pence.
He'll be seated at a desk to the right with those plexiglass barriers there between them. The moderator, Susan Page, of USA TODAY will be 12 feet away from the candidates as well. The Debate Commission says everyone in the debate hall must test negative or must test negative for coronavirus. Commission is promising to remove anyone in the audience who refuses to wear a mask as members of the Trump family did last week.
As for the debate itself, it'll be broken into nine 10-minute segments. The first question of the night will go to Vice President Pence based on a coin toss. We're covering the debate as only CNN can with Daniel Dale factchecking every word, CNN's Sara Sidner is with a group of undecided Arizona voters who will be watching the debate, David Chalian will have the first glimpses of who won from the CNN instant poll. Erin, back to you.
BURNETT: All right. So we have all of that and we're now getting new information from inside the debate hall where our correspondents are tonight. Ryan Nobles is first.
So Ryan, take us inside what you now know about Vice President Pence's strategy tonight.
RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, no doubt a week ago we saw a very combative and a debate that was often filled with personal attacks between President Trump and Vice President Biden. Aides to Mike Pence say that the situation tonight is going to be a lot different.
Mike Pence's debate style is much different than President Trump. He has a lot of experience on the debate stage. He's known to be methodical and in control and also very good at keeping on message. And frankly, his aides say that he will do it in a much more polite tone than President Trump did more than a week ago.
Now, that's not to be said that Mike Pence won't take the opportunities to draw a very specific and stark distinctions with Kamala Harris. He will take those opportunities when given the chance. The big difference, though, between he and President Trump is that his aides say that when he does so, he will do it with a smile. Erin.
BURNETT: Right. A totally, totally different style. I want to go to Kyung Lah on that. And Kyung, obviously, Sen. Harris with a with a very different strategy as well here. What are you hearing from her camp?
KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR U.S. CORRESPONDENT: Well, expect COVID-19 to be a key line of attack from the Senator, both from the pandemic response to what is happening in the economy, as far as the pandemic response. She says and aide says that nothing is going to change tonight on the debate stage as to what happened because of the lies of Vice President Pence as well as President Trump.
And that they lied to the American people about how dangerous COVID-19 is from the start that 211,000 Americans have died because of the failures of the administration. And she will specifically point to the fact that the head of the Coronavirus Task Force is Mike Pence.
On the economy, expect Harris to talk about the high unemployment numbers and that the stimulus hawks were specifically pulled back by the President. So constantly, Erin, you're going to hear the Senator talk about the failures of the ministration when it comes to the pandemic.
[19:05:05]
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Kyung.
And I want to get the latest now on what we know and what we do not know about the President's COVID-19 infection and, of course, the COVID that has been spreading throughout the entire White House. Our Chief White House Correspondent, Jim Acosta, joins me now.
So Jim, the President tried to put an update, a spin on his illness a short while ago. He's been saying amazing he's feeling, but you are hearing something different. Tell me.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Erin. And you're right, the White House just released a video of the President produced by West Wing staffers featuring Mr. Trump claiming that he's feeling just fine as he recovers from the coronavirus. But sources tell CNN, the President has had some trouble breathing since his return from Walter Reed Medical Center.
I talked to one Trump advisor who tells me the President is having some difficulty catching his breath at times. Though this advisor cautions it does not appear to be serious at this point. And yet, in this White House-produced video that you're seeing on the other side of the screen, the President essentially claims he's been cured of the coronavirus pointing to some of the experimental medications he's been on, like the Regeneron antibody cocktail.
The President claims in the video he asked his doctors for the treatment and that it was a blessing from god, his words, blessing from god that he caught the coronavirus and here's more of what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So we have these drugs, Eli Lilly, and the others that are so good. But they are, in my opinion, remember this, they're going to say that they're, therapeutic, and I guess they are therapeutic. Some people don't know how to define therapeutic. I view it different, it's a cure.
For me, I walked in, I didn't feel good. A short 24 hours later, I was feeling great, I wanted to get out of the hospital and that's what I want for everybody. I want everybody to be given the same treatment as your president because I feel great. I feel like perfect. A short 24 hours later, I was feeling great, I wanted to get out of the hospital and that's what I want for everybody.
I want everybody to be given the same treatment as your president because I feel great. I feel like perfect. So I think this was a blessing from god that I caught it.
(END VIDEO CLIP) ACOSTA: Now, one thing we should note is that some of the President's
medications that he's been on are not available to most Americans. The White House claims this video was recorded today, though, during the video, Erin, Mr. Trump says he got back from the hospital a day ago and the President did not appear in front of reporters today. So we cannot independently verify when that video was produced or exactly how he's doing.
And I can tell you from talking to my sources, there are people inside this building who were very worried about the President overdoing it, that he's just trying to do too much right now and they're wondering how that's going to affect his health. But as you saw in that video, he claims he's been cured. Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Jim, thank you very much. Of course, he's on a very powerful steroid and they have not given us information on his lungs and lung damage, which is crucial for a president and certainly for a person who would like to become president for a second term and be the oldest president elected in American history.
Nia, this debate tonight, I mean, to just think that we were all sitting here a week ago ...
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes.
BURNETT: ... and wow.
HENDERSON: What a debate.
BURNETT: Talk about a seismic change in what has happened. You're now at 14 and counting people infected in the White House. The top generals in the country in quarantine. The President of the United States spent three days in the hospital with coronavirus, which his own administration thinks he had at that debate, and that is now front and center.
HENDERSON: Front and center visually, the distance, they're going to be apart, 12 feet or so and the plexiglass as well. And listen, this is what Biden and Harris wanted this debate in this election to be about COVID and it just so happens that most Americans are dealing with this virus and the fear of this virus in major ways, every single day of their lives.
So you'll see her bring the case to Pence who, of course, is the head of this task force. And I think if you're Pence, you want to try to make the case that they're too liberal and they wouldn't know what they were doing in the White House.
DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, it's always been the COVID election. Now, it's the COVID October and it's blaring red, so it's so important. And I look for Kamala Harris to take the case to the President through Pence. Yes, Pence runs the task force, but she's going to make the case against a president who said that he downplayed the virus and then he ultimately gets the virus and so does so many other within the people.
BURNETT: Which he says is a blessing.
GREGORY: And now he says it's a blessing. So competence, compassion, I mean, I really think that she's got the ability to drill down on this and take it, I think, in her role, it's always to take the case against the President and the approximate person there is, the Vice President but that's it.
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And the big picture tonight, there aren't many opportunities left for a reset. And you look at the data and the data suggests this is getting away from the President, 16 points in a national survey from CNN, my home State of Pennsylvania, Monmouth survey now says that what was a four point race is now 12 to Biden's advantage.
There are just 27 days to go until the final day of voting, so this is that rare opportunity that presents a chance and I wonder how much pressure Vice President Pence is under from the President to go hard and heavy tonight in this debate.
[19:10:09]
Which I don't think is Pence's inclination.
BURNETT: And the way the President has been acting in the past couple of days, whatever, and he is on some very serious steroids. But I mean, the number of tweets, the fast and furious, the sort of live reaction from this president that we're going to see that's going to be part of the conversation in how this is received.
HENDERSON: He has been incredibly erratic. I think if you're Pence you got to be the stabilizer in many ways. We saw this last go round with Biden having to be the stabilizer after Obama didn't have such a great debate. So in many ways, Pence who has this sort of midwestern cool, easy, sensibility and manner about him, I think that's what you'll see tonight, compared to Harris who can be the prosecutor that's why people like her because she brings the fire.
GREGORY: Right, and she will do that and I expect her to do it, frankly, in a way that's much more fluid than Joe Biden. I mean, one of Trump's mistakes was not letting Biden talk where he's not as fluid as a debater and I think that could have hurt him. Look, not everybody knows who these two folks are and we still have the issue of who really is undecided who's going to be watching tonight. People want to see them mix it up on the issue of the President's getting COVID and what's happening in the White House for sure.
But people already know that Pence is going to be different than Trump and he's going to make some excuses for him. He's going to try to ignore the kinds of things that Trump says and try to reframe it. But he's the Vice President and like most Republicans, he doesn't really stand up to Trump. So I don't think that people are going to say, oh, wow, this is a different administration now.
SMERCONISH: I think that the clock is interesting to keep an eye on tonight from this perspective. These are short segments, so ...
BURNETT: Ten minutes each, right?
SMERCONISH: Yes.
BURNETT: Yes.
SMERCONISH: So you know that in Sen. Harris' eyes, every one of these segments somehow revolves around COVID. So the objective for her is to work that in as often as she can possibly do. I think it's to the advantage of the Vice President that theoretically there's only one segment that will be dedicated specifically to COVID, so we'll see how that plays out.
GREGORY: There's another piece here and that is remember that Pence knows how to go on the offense.
BURNETT: Yes.
GREGORY: And one of the things he wants to remind viewers who are not only thinking about COVID is Kamala Harris represents the extreme wing of the Democratic Party. That's the argument that they will make.
BURNETT: Right, sure.
GREGORY: He's going to be on the defensive about that and there's a lot of voters out there who may not have made up their mind who will think, yes, she's the future of the Democratic Party. We have a very old potential president, she's got to be able to answer for that.
BURNETT: And so Nia - yes.
HENDERSON: Yes, go ahead.
BURNETT: I was just going to say, that to that point, either person, Trump or Pence, is - I mean, I'm sorry, or Biden are going to be the oldest president ever elected.
HENDERSON: That's right.
BURNETT: Right. So people are looking at this debate the way they've never looked before. Either one of these people could be president.
HENDERSON: And Trump is ill right now. I mean, he's making it seem like he's healed and this was a gift from God, but he is ill. And so that, I think, magnifies how important this is. Typically, in some ways, vice presidential debates are sort of forgettable. Maybe there's a one liner here or there, but because these two are seen also as the future of their party in many ways, particularly if you're Kamala Harris, I think people will be looking at it.
Also the history tonight, Kamala Harris, African-American woman, Asian-American woman trying to be the Vice President. People are going to be looking at that.
SMERCONISH: You want to be delicate, but the President has COVID-19, Joe Biden on his first day will be older than Ronald Reagan was on his last day in office, sobering. BURNETT: Very sobering.
And so David, what role does the plexiglass play and the mask wearing? I mean, because there's a theater to this as well as the safety part. There was Katie Miller, a spokesperson for the Vice President mocked the barriers, even though she herself had COVID and her husband just got COVID from the debate room prep with President Trump mocked it, but now it's there for both of them.
GREGORY: I mean, it's idiotic to mock it. Obviously, you had the President's family mocking America by not wearing a mask when the Cleveland Clinic who I think has some authority on these matters said everybody's got to wear mask. I mean, it's common sense, we're not or any of us, we're gonna go by the precautions, we're gonna follow the precautions.
I think it's a reminder of how completely historic and unprecedented it is that they have physical barriers at a time of a pandemic. There is no escaping that the central question of this campaign is how did they do in response to the pandemic and then you vote.
HENDERSON: Yes. And I think if you're Kamala Harris and Joe Biden, you hope it's a reminder of the failures of this administration. If you look at all the data, the polling, something like 65 percent of Americans disapprove of the way this administration has handled coronavirus.
SMERCONISH: If I'm Mike Pence, I don't want it there. It's a constant reminder. I don't know if the efficacy, I'm no expert. It would seem to me the ventilation would be more important than ...
BURNETT: Go around the (inaudible), yes.
SMERCONISH: ... right, I go and get my coffee every day. There's plexiglass there, OK, I get it. But if I'm Pence, I'm not happy it's there.
GREGORY: Well, but also that's how they felt, I think, when Amy Coney Barrett was unveiled at the White House, that's when everybody got sick, because they had a private gathering, social inside the White House with no masks and then went outside where they also had no masks and look what happened.
[19:15:03]
BURNETT: All right. Thank you all and much more head on this special edition of OUTFRONT.
Next, should Vice President Pence be taking part in tonight's debate because he's actually had close proximity to multiple people of COVID- 19 right now. Our medical experts will weigh in.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:19:00] COOPER: As we await the start at the vice presidential debates, some
health experts are questioning whether Vice President Mike Pence should be participating after all he attended President Trump's Supreme Court announcement 11 days ago sitting right in front. The Rose Garden ceremony now seen as one possible coronavirus super spreader event, at least eight people who were there have tested positive including the President, the First Lady who sat across from the Vice President, Sen. Mike Lee who sat right behind him.
The CDC recommends people in close contact with someone who's COVID-19 quarantine for 14 days after their last exposure. Close contacts is defined as being within six feet of an infected person for at least 15 minutes. The CDC urges quarantine even if you test negative and feel healthy. All that seems to apply to Vice President Mike Pence, but as you can see he's attended multiple public events since September 26th often without social distancing or mask.
I'm going to talk about this with CNN Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta and CNN Medical Analyst Dr. Jonathan Reiner.
So Sanjay, Pence's doctor says he does not need to quarantine even though he attended the Rose Garden event where he was surrounded by numerous individuals who tested positive. Though CDC guideline - you heard the CDC guidelines, the Head of the CDC I think was quoted as saying he consulted with the doctor and thinks it's OK for him to attend.
[19:20:09]
What do you make of it and does the plexiglass help at all?
SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: So the first question, the CDC guidelines apply to everyone, I mean, regardless. And I know what Dr. Redfield is saying, but you just read the guidelines and those are the guidelines that exists for a reason. It does appear that Vice President Pence had close contact.
I mean, as you said, within six feet for longer than 15 minutes to people who were COVID positive. I mean, in this particular case we can see the video and see the images that you were showing, Anderson. And I think the last line, that it doesn't matter what the testing shows, because we know that people can test negative one day and then test positive the next day.
The Vice President, unfortunately, was in the middle of a super spreader event. I think for anybody else who said I was surrounded by people with COVID for longer than 15 minutes, they were close to me, that would be concerning. So from a pure medical standpoint, it's very concerning that he's not quarantined.
I don't know if they're considering him an essential worker and therefore he doesn't need to be quarantined, but in that case, if he's going out in public, he needs to be wearing a mask all the time, so it is concerning. And Anderson, just regarding the plexiglass, I think the confusion about this is that that may be good for respiratory droplet sort of protection, which is good. But as we know and now the CDC has on their website took it down, now
they have it back up, is that there is a concern about this virus spreading via aerosols. And if you just want to visualize it, think of that more like smoke, smoke that can kind of linger in the air and travel further than six feet.
So that's the concern and that's why the plexiglass could be helpful, but it's by no means a panacea here.
COOPER: Dr. Reiner, both Pence and Second Lady Karen Pence have tested negative for COVID-19 ahead of this evening's debate. I'm not sure if they show proof, but that's what we are told that they tested negative and administration official has said that is that. Is that good enough? I mean, would you sit on a stage with Vice President Pence?
JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Absolutely not. He should be quarantining, so we're holding it debate in a quarantine. The CDC recommendations are unambiguous, very, very clear. And as you and Sanjay said, if you've had a close contact with somebody who is known to be infected with the virus, you need to stay home for 14 days.
Those are the exact words, stay home for 14 days. And it doesn't matter whether you've tested negative. So what is the explanation for forcing this debate to continue? There is no public health urgency that would be benefited by having this, to the contrary, there's only risk.
And this administration hasn't exactly covered itself with glory as it comes to candor in terms of the disclosure either by the White House people or the White House medical unit when it comes to the health of the President. Frankly, I have no confidence in what I've heard from the White House medical unit or the White House.
If I were Biden's camp, well, I would have declined to do the debate tonight. But if the debate were going to go forward, I would have insisted that both parties be tested on site by neutral medical personnel to prove that testing is negative. We still don't have proof that the President himself was tested prior to the debate last week. I would insist that the Vice President had been tested on site.
COOPER: Yes. I mean, Sanjay, President Trump is saying he will participate in next Thursday's presidential debate. Biden says there shouldn't be debate if the President still has COVID. Is there any way to definitively prove the President is not contagious and given that the White House is hiding when the President actually had his last negative test and we don't even know if he's been lying about when he actually became positive, how can the Biden team be a hundred percent confident standing on a stage next to him?
GUPTA: Yes. I mean, I can completely understand that concern, because we don't have the data and they haven't been forthright about when the President's last negative test was. We keep asking this, everybody keeps asking this, they still don't provide an answer. And it's relevant and more and more things are sort of hinging upon that very question, including the next debate. So we could show you when people generally are going to get out of the
period of contagiousness and, again, this is from CDC guidelines and we talked to some of the vital dynamics experts about this today. But roughly 10 days after people have symptoms, that's when they should typically no longer be contagious. They should have at least 24 hours since their last fever without using medications such as fever- reducing medications or steroids like dexamethasone, which the President I think is still taking.
[19:25:06]
We don't know for sure because they're not telling us stuff and obviously improving symptoms. But the one of the things that should be done is as Jonathan was mentioning is having negative tests. And specifically, a lot of people don't have access to these tests. But given that they do and we thought they were taking them daily, that doesn't appear to be the case, but they should have two negative tests separated by a day.
So if you meet those criteria, there's a good chance he's not contagious at that point. But again, we don't know.
COOPER: Right.
GUPTA: There's not a lot of data they're giving us here.
COOPER: Yes. I mean, Dr. Reiner, just on those guidelines alone, it's impossible to know when the President - I mean, if it's 10 days after the first symptoms, we have no idea when the first symptoms actually were. I mean, we know Hope Hicks had symptoms on Air Force One Wednesday evening. For all we know, the President was positive the day of the debate on Tuesday.
REINER: Right. We don't know and it's even more complicated than that. The CDC also states that some patients with severe or critical disease may need to be isolated for 20 days, because they may shed virus, they may shed active virus, not just sort of viral remnants that can cause infection but real active virus for up to 20 days.
So let's think about the President. He was ill enough to require emergent transport to the hospital and treatment with a triple investigative regimen. So I don't know, to me that sounds like severe disease. So to be on the safe side, I would isolate the President for 20 days, for 20 days.
Testing is difficult because many patients even if they don't have - our testing is so sensitive that you can often pick up viral particles out for quite a period of time, but I would err on the side of safety, use the CDC guidelines and isolate the President for 20 days.
COOPER: I appreciate both of you. We'll be talking again throughout the night. I want to see how coronavirus is shaping the political map right now, especially in presidential battlegrounds.
John King is at the magic wall for it. John. JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, whether you're
looking at the here and now, the data about the coronavirus today or whether we're going back through the eight-month journey we all have been on. The Vice President is in a very difficult position tonight, not only defending the President, but defending his work as the head of the task force.
Let's look at where we are right now. Right now, 27 days to election day, look at this map, 24 states almost half, nearly half of the 50 states trending in the wrong direction. That's the orange and the red. More new infections today than in the data a week ago, not the direction you want to be going in anytime and if you're the Trump administration not this close to the election.
Twenty-four states trending up, 23 holding steady, only three states, only three of the 50 states reporting fewer new infections now than a week ago. That is not progress in the fight against the coronavirus, especially as it gets cold people head inside.
So let's look at the case timeline and this is very, very important. Remember, we go back to the beginning here, we all went up the hill in March, mostly on the West Coast: Washington State and New York and New England in the Northeast. On the on the 16th of April, the White House announced reopening guidelines.
One week after that, the Vice President of the United States on the debate stage tonight said he was looking at the data, studying it closely and he believed by Memorial Day this would all be behind us, all behind us by Memorial Day. That's right here.
We were only averaging only, it's a rough word to use, but we were averaging 18,000 new infections a day on Memorial Day. It wasn't all behind us, look what happened. The summer surge, people blew by the White House reopening guidelines; Texas, Florida, Georgia, Arizona up we went more than 70,000 new infections a day at the peak of the surge.
So where are we now? Yes, we've come down the hill. But look, just follow the red line, you don't have to do the math. We're now heading back up at more than 40,000 new infections a day. So everyone was worried. A baseline of about 20,000 when we have the summer surge, what happens if we get a winter surge and our baseline is twice that, that's what public health experts worry about being way up here.
Remember the vice president said back in April by Memorial Day he thought this would all be behind us. No. No, 5.9 million cases, 78 percent of the new infections in the United States have happened after Memorial Day, 78 percent, 110,000 deaths since Memorial Day. That's 52. That's more than half of the deaths, 52 percent of the deaths in the United States and of course we're still counting as we get closer to the election day.
So what the Vice President said back then was dead wrong, it just hasn't turned out that way. And here's the problem in the here and now as we look to the election and beyond. The darker the blue, the deeper the color, the higher the coronavirus positivity rate. Meaning people taking tests, the percentage coming back positive, 23 percent in Idaho, 15 in Wyoming, 23 percent South Dakota, 20 percent in Wisconsin.
Let's just zoom in on the dozen states that have double digit positivity right now. That means more coronavirus infections today, more risk for more infections tomorrow as we head forward. Look at this map, battleground Florida, battleground Wisconsin, Nevada, three key states in the presidential race in here.
[19:30:04]
But here's another way to look at this, look at this map. Of all of these states on this map, a dozen states, only Nevada carried by Hillary Clinton four years ago. Right now, the coronavirus is playing out, surging, cases increasing on Donald Trump's 2016 map.
Smaller states, not very popular states out here. That was Trump country in 2016. Right now, he said the virus would be gone in April. They are experiencing the coronavirus.
One thing you might hear tonight, this is a global crisis. The United States, the president and vice president often say we're leading the world. Leading the world, maybe, Anderson, but not in the way you want to lead the world.
Look where we are now. This is the United States versus the European Union and this is Japan down here. This is the seven-day moving average per 1 million residents.
Remember in the beginning, the United States and the European Union went up the hill about the same time. Here's the difference, the European Union got down, flattened the curve for a very long time.
Yes, the European Union right now -- look at the Czech Republic, look at Hungary, look at Spain, look at the Netherlands, they are having a surge, without a doubt. But they pushed the curve down. So, as they deal with the surge, the numbers are lower.
The United States never got the curve down, then it went up to the summer surge, and now, we're dealing with this. So as the debate plays out tonight, if you're going to say the United States is leading the world, Anderson, this is not the race you want to be leading. And I just want to come back to this map here. If you look at this map right now, 27 days from the Election Day, it is just indisputable. We are heading in the wrong direction.
COOPER: John King -- John, thanks.
As we count down to tonight's debate, how both candidates prepared for the big night and who they turned to for help.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:35:31]
BURNETT: We are less than 90 minutes away from the vice presidential debate in Salt Lake City, Utah.
And now, new insights into exactly how Vice President Mike Pence and Senator Kamala Harris have prepared for this most important night.
Dana Bash, I know you have been talking to debate insiders. Certainly, Harris and Pence both know this is the most important night that they will have this election. What are you learning?
DANA BASH, CNNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Erin. You're right. Well, he's a smooth talker, she's a gifted prosecutor and debater.
Now, those are the lines I'm hearing from sources in opposing Pence and Harris camps as they try to set expectations for tonight. But one thing we can count on, this will be very different from what we saw last week.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BASH (voice-over): For Mike Pence's debate prep in 2016, Scott Walker got really into character playing Tim Kaine.
SCOTT WALKER (R), FORMER WISCONSIN GOVERNOR: I could say today, America, you need a "you're hired" president, not a --
SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA): You're fired president.
WALKER: And that's exactly what you get from Hillary Clinton.
BASH: Walker used that line so much in preparing Pence during mock debates, he said --
MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Senator, you just said a whole lot.
WALKER: I laughed watching it, because I knew in his head he was thinking, boy, you keep repeating it. But it was because I had said it so many times in debate prep, word for word.
BASH: CNN is told that the vice president is preparing the same way this time around. A small group of advisers doing 90-minute mock debates just like the real thing, with former Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi among others, playing Kamala Harris.
PENCE: We're looking very much forward to the vice presidential debate.
BASH (on camera): Will debating Kamala Harris be harder than debating Tim Kaine?
WALKER: I think so. For two reasons, one because -- because of her background as a prosecutor. I think that will make her effective. And two, I think the stakes are higher.
BASH (voice-over): Harris is taking a similar approach. Pence's fellow Hoosier, Peter Buttigieg, is playing the VP during mock debates to get her ready.
Lily Adams was the top aide to Harris who prepped her in the Senate for Supreme Court hearings and for debates when she ran for president.
(on camera): Is she coachable?
LILY ADAMS, FORMER HARRIS COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: She takes a ton of advice. I think she's always looking for feedback. She does like to have sort of a diverse, you know, group of viewpoints and a backgrounds that are giving her feedback.
BASH (voice-over): She recently got some blunt debate advice from the only woman ever at the top of the ticket.
HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: I think you should be prepared for the slights, the efforts to diminish you, you personally, you as a woman who is about to be our next vice president.
BASH: Pence advisers are hoping he avoids cringe-worthy moments like in 1984 when George W. Bush was debating Geraldine Ferraro, the first woman on a major party ticket.
GERALDINE FERRARO (D), FORMER VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I almost recent, Vice President Bush, your patronizing attitude that you have to teach me about foreign policy.
WALKER: I think he's going to be respectful. The fact that she's historic on the ticket, and that's a good thing for America, even if they differing political views.
BASH: Harris advisers see Pence as skilled and smooth.
PENCE: There's a reason why people question the trustworthiness of Hillary Clinton, and that's because they're paying attention.
BASH: The senator certainly knows how to deliver a memorable line.
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: And that little girl was me.
WALKER: Boy, that was unbelievably effective. I thought it was one of the great -- like the whole world stopped for a moment.
BASH: Now, Pence aides are preparing him for Harris to turn the conversation to coronavirus as much as possible.
(on camera): We're going to hear a lot about Mike Pence being the head of the coronavirus task force, aren't we?
ADAMS: I mean, I imagine so. But, you know, it's in his title. And I think, you know, if you get a big responsibility, it comes with accountability.
WALKER: He needs to be prepared to deal with that. Even if the president hadn't gotten coronavirus, even the first lady and others hadn't, that's still the elephant in the room. The American people are thinking about that. And I just think the more he leans in and says, here's what we've done, here's what we're doing.
BASH (voice-over): Harris aides are preparing her for the vice president to call her radical. He's been practicing on the stump.
PENCE: Senator Harris put their radical environmental agenda ahead of Wisconsin dairy and ahead of Wisconsin power.
BASH (on camera): How should she respond to that?
ADAMS: It's hard for them to throw out terms like socialism. It doesn't square with the experience and the issues that are most salient to folk's lives right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Sources on both sides note that the stakes are very high for each candidate, not just for what their performance means but for the men at the top of their tickets, but also for their own viability in the maybe not so distant future. Pence sources privately admit, win or lose now, he's almost surely going to eye a run for the GOP nomination in 2024.
[19:40:04]
And if Biden wins, there's talk in Democratic circles that because of his age, he will only serve one term, though Biden of course has never said that publicly -- Erin.
BURNETT: Right, the stakes just could not be higher.
Dana, thank you very much.
Anderson?
COOPER: Yeah, there's going to be a lot to watch for. Let's check in with our group.
David Axelrod, what are you expecting?
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I was interested in hearing Scott Walker because I felt like he was setting a little bit of a trap for Kamala Harris, first referring to her as a very skilled prosecutor. She doesn't want to be a prosecutor on the stage. She can tear people apart, we've seen it in Senate hearings and very effectively, but the tone is going to be important here. And then --
COOPER: You don't see her being on the attack in that debate (ph)?
AXELROD: I think she'll be on the attacks, it's a question of how, and I think they've been working on how that attack should come. Because Pence, you know, Pence is the velvet hammer. He cloaks his attack in warm words.
And so, you know, that's what happened with Tim Kaine four years ago. He hit him very, very hard. And Pence was very, very smooth in the rebuttal. And it redounded against him. And she has added -- added challenges, unfairly probably, because women get chosen -- I mean women get judged by a different barometer.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think Mike Pence now, I could be wrong in an hour, I think Mike Pence will probably being smart take note of the historic nature of Kamala Harris's candidacy and congratulate her on that. And then turn right away to say she's a stalking horse for the radical left and attack her that way.
And, I think, you know, for Mike Pence to -- Kamala Harris is going to be talking COVID, COVID, COVID. I can quite honestly, the president of the United States tonight, by talking about -- let me get this right -- how he may be cured, how catching the virus was a blessing from God. I'm going to make what I got available to everyone, even though it's hardly available to anyone right now. All of that doesn't make Mike Pence's job any easier tonight.
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, for sure, because Mike Pence has had literally one job his entire job was COVID. And he blew it. So you don't have to be a skilled prosecutor to knock him on that, though she's pretty good.
But Pence does have some advantages. First of all, he was a radio guy. Like you said, he's smooth. Kamala, she's courtroom person. Those are different styles of efficacy and they play different on television.
Also, Pence has been here before. There is no substitute for just experience. He's done it before. This is her first time doing it. And also, his main job is going to scare people about her. So she's got to figure out a way to assert that she's not a scary person, she's going to defend herself and she's got to prosecute on Trump.
She's got the tougher job, but at the same time, he's sitting there with a big dunce cap on his head because he blew the whole country --
(CROSSTALK)
RICK SANTORUM, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Don't underestimate Mike -- Mike Pence knows this issue. I mean, he -- you know, you're not the head of the Coronavirus Task Force and you don't understand what you've done. So, I think he's going to make a very strong case.
Now, you may not think it's convincing, but I think he's going to do a better job than Donald Trump has ever done. I mean, I happen to believe that what the White House has done is not nearly as bad as the way they portrayed it, because I think they have done a lot of good things. They have communicated it poorly because Donald Trump isn't a good communicator when it comes to crisis -- I think Mike Pence is.
I think you're going to see probably the best case you will see for the administration ever put forward tonight for their COVID response. That's number one.
And, number two, I agree with Van, there's no question that this is going to be focused on the fact, fact that she's had the most liberal voting record of any United States senator. That she's not a stalking horse for the left, she is the vanguard of the left. That's what he's going to make it out to be.
BORGER: Doesn't this have to be about Joe Biden? You know, he can attack Kamala Harris and say, yeah, you're left wing and he's an empty vessel.
SANTORUM: This is who Joe Biden chose.
(CROSSTALK)
BORGER: But he has to talk about Joe Biden's record and she has to defend Joe Biden's record.
SANTORUM: Joe Biden said he's the Democratic Party. But look who he chose. He's going to serve one term, maybe. And look who he chose to fill in -- the most liberal member of the United States Senate.
COOPER: But isn't the backdrop for this, we have a president who is positive for COVID-19 in the White House, who is walking around the White House and possibly infecting others? And has been -- and the White House and the president have been covering up when he became positive, when he last tested negative. And he's saying it's a blessing from God and is occurred.
SANTORUM: He said it's a blessing from God because he now knows of the treatment that can help people. Not that he got COVID.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Right, the fact that he didn't know that was a treatment before hand is pretty pathetic. Only when it happens to him that he wakes up and pays attention?
SANTORUM: He knows how effective it was because of the way he felt.
AXELROD: This recalls -- but this, Rick, this recalls the whole saga from the beginning, hydroxychloroquine, the miracle cure, and all the things that he did to minimize this when he obviously knew --
[19:45:07]
SANTORUM: As I said, the messaging on the administration on --
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: This debate is happening on a night where there is a crime scene tape around the White House, essentially. It is a roped off COVID zone.
AXELROD: The other thing, Anderson, that the president's illness does is it underscores the mortality of the guys at the top of the ticket. And so, you know, we did a focus group in 2008 before the vice presidential debate. And people said they were going to pay a lot of attention because they knew John McCain was 72 and had had cancer and they were, frankly, worried about Barack Obama's safety if he became president.
And they honestly were thinking about these people as people who could be president. And I think you're going to see that tonight.
BORGER: Yeah, you're absolutely --
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: When the vice presidential nominees take the stage tonight, millions will already have voted, that's a fact. Coming up, a brand new tally on how many ballots have been cast so far.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: And we are back with our special debate coverage.
[19:50:00]
Vice President Mike Pence and Senator Kamala Harris, with a unique opportunity tonight to sway anybody who is left undecided at their face-off tonight, and, of course, motivate their base. Many Americans, though, have already made up their minds, including millions who, by the way, have already voted in this most unprecedented election.
Our Pamela Brown is here with brand new numbers on early voting.
And, Pamela, this is such a crucial part of this entire election. What are you finding out tonight?
PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It is crucial. We are getting this detailed look at who is casting these votes from Catalist. This is a company that provides data, analytics and other services to Democrats, academics and nonprofit issue advocacy organizations.
And take a look here, what we are seeing so far is this continued surge in early voting. So far, as you see on the screen here, there are more than 5.4 million votes cast in 31 states so far. You look at the breakdown by party. In 17 states so far, 54 percent Democrats have cast their ballots compared to 25 percent of Republicans.
But remember, all pre-election polling shows Democrats are more likely to vote early and Republicans are more likely to vote in person on Election Day.
Now, while we are seeing these record set in some states for ballot request and returns, one data point that is staying consistent here with 2016 is the breakdown of gender. So far, 55 percent of the vote have come from women in 27 states, compared to 45 percent of men, Erin.
BURNETT: Which is interesting, right, that that one thing is staying the same, when so much is changing.
BROWN: Yeah. BURNETT: So, is there anything, Pamela, that you now know about who is actually voting, who are these early voters in the battleground states?
BROWN: Yeah, we've been taking a closer look at this. And if you look at Florida, for example, here on the screen, what we are seeing is the Hispanic votes, going -- making 9 percent of the ballot so far in 2020, that's compared to 6 percent of Hispanics voting in 2016. We know that is a crucial part of the population for both campaigns. They have been courting the Hispanic vote.
And then you look at North Carolina -- if we go to North Carolina here, there is a significant increase in pre-election voting among black voters who represent about 17 percent of those who already cast their ballots. Now, at this time four years ago, Erin, just to put this in perspective for you, only 10 percent of the vote was made for black voters.
Now, we know there are key Democratic demographic and this early rise in their share of voting numbers is to be expected, given what we know about Democrats and Republicans and how they're voting this year, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Pamela, so do you have reporting on any issues, right? This is the big question the president keeps on trying to show so much doubt, any issues going on with early voting ballots?
BROWN: That's right, and the issues that we are seeing so far had to do with human error. Like if you look in North Carolina, for example, take a look at your screen here, 2 percent of the ballot that had been returned are waiting to be accepted with some being held while legal disputes are resolved.
So, for example here, 357 ballots are on hold because they have incomplete witness information that's required. Now, we should point out, not every state allows for the voters to fix the ballots for simple mistake. So, it's really important for everyone voting by mail to carefully follow those instructions so that their ballots isn't thrown out, so that their vote counts.
And for more on making your share that your vote counts, just go to our website, CNN.com/vote -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Pamela, thank you very much.
So, you have 5.4 million votes thus far. What do we read into it?
DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, there's been such a big push for people to vote early. Remember, Michelle Obama, the Democratic convention, you know, get your ballots tonight and send it in. So, there's been that big push because there are going to be a lot of people for safety returns who don't want to go on Election Day.
But you do worry about the peril of doing it right.
BURNETT: Yeah. GREGORY: I worry about myself. I got my -- I filed in D.C. I'm worried that I will screw it up and people will screw it up. And then, on top of that, there will be doubt that could be illegitimate, that is -- that it's cast on this process. So, that's what you take from it and in addition to that you have all these moments in time of huge news. The president getting COVID and at a time people are voting.
We just don't know what the impact of that is on motivation and on actual vote (ph).
BURNETT: And, Michael, so North Carolina, right, you have this double digits increase in Democrats voting early.
SMERCONISH: Right.
BURNETT: And yet they don't even start -- you have to postmark it by Election Day. So, you can end up on Election Day with a big win theoretically in a crucial state like North Carolina for Donald Trump in a state that actually overwhelmingly goes for Joe Biden, right? That is the possibility.
SMERCONISH: Same situation with my home state Pennsylvania, where we are, for the first time now, able to vote absentee without a cost, and because of a ruling from the Pennsylvania Supreme Court, ballots received by 8:00 p.m. on election night November 3rd be counted through Friday.
So, it's very possible that you can go to bed that night thinking the president has significant lead in Pennsylvania, wake up and find out over the span of the next three days that it's vanished.
One other thing if I can say this, stuff happens. I'll be delicate with my language. It's the nature of human factors. There will be stories about ballots that were missed delivered.
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: For sure, yeah.
SMERCONISH: It's the nature of the way we run this by creating this artificial system once a year largely by volunteers or people were paid very minimum wage.
[19:55:07]
And then it all goes away until the next year.
HENDERSON: Yeah, and I think this is where Democrats have a lot of worry about this mail-in balloting process, people might mail in their votes.
David talked about some of the difficulties, you got to have a privacy sleeve, you have to sign them, or some of those votes going to be tossed out. I think we're going to be seeing court cases. We've already seen a lot of court cases and a lot of efforts by Republicans to essentially suppress the vote in some of these battleground states. So, I think Democrats feel good about where Biden is, but very worried about the sort of process of voting and what happens once they turn in --
(CROSSTALK)
GREGORY: What they hope is that it's -- that it's -- that it's such a big win for him.
BURNETT: If it doesn't, then you have the court cases --
(CROSSTALK)
GREGORY: That it doesn't really matter, of course, but you have these big states like Pennsylvania that, you know, Trump is waiting to say I want Election Day, why should we keep counting? He's already said.
BURNETT: So, what -- what purpose then tonight, right, the most important vice presidential debate that we've ever seen and may ever see, right, with the two oldest presidential candidates on the ticket? Never mind the crisis and the current president having COVID.
I8f 5.4 million people have already voted, you have, by any account, low single digits of people who have not yet decided --
GREGORY: Right.
BURNETT: -- what then does tonight do?
GREGORY: We can't forget that this is still a time when most people are taking the measure of these candidates for the first time. They're not watching them day in and day out. They're going to learn something about them that they don't know.
We know all about them. Most folks do not. And against this unprecedented backdrop of this pandemic, we're going to see them have spirited and I suspect a debate that's a lot easier to follow than the chaos we saw a week ago with the president.
HENDERSON: And with Kamala Harris, I think you have someone who a lot of women in particular are excited about African-Americans, Asian- Americans --
BURNETT: The viewership is going to be really high.
HENDERSON: The viewership, I think people want to turn --
BURNETT: Yeah.
HENDERSON: -- tune in to see this historic moment.
SMERCONISH: I have to believe that she will bring a few one liners like she had for Joe Biden in that debate. F
But remember this -- we all tend to remember the zingers. I'll play them tomorrow on the radio. But who did she take down? She took down Joe Biden. She -- BURNETT: That little girl was me.
HENDERSON: Yeah.
SMERCONISH: She soon got out of the race and he's at the top of the ticket.
BURNETT: Yeah.
SMERCONISH: Yeah.
HENDERSON: I think that's right and I think, you know, you are going to probably have Pence bring that back up the way she went after Joe Biden and what she went after him over -- over race, I think that's going to be a big topic as well tonight, and we'll see how Pence is able to handle it.
GREGORY: I also want to underline something that our panelist was talking about, that Vice President Pence, in addition to being a good debater, is a very good politician, and he does know the administration's response to COVID-19 better and more fluidly than the president of the United States. And he is going to make that case.
If there's been progress on finding a vaccine, which most people think there have. On the therapeutics and if apparently that have helped the president, he is gong to say, this administration deserves credit for that. He's going to make that case and I think a lot of Americans are going to be listening.
SMERCONISH: He's not flashy. He is workmanlike.
BURNETT: Yes.
SMERCONISH: And can I say? He is a former talk radio host. If you answer telephones for a living in that manner, you're pretty good at speaking on your feet.
HENDERSON: There is a warmth about him that I think comes through on television and I think if you are Kamala Harris, you've got to worry about kind of beating back some of the stereotypes of black women, she doesn't want to be too aggressive, but she also has to be aggressive in prosecuting the case.
BURNETT: And they keep saying the case is closed, make the case. That's what she's going to do.
(CROSSTALK)
SMERCONISH: But her first role is do no harm.
GREGORY: Right.
SMERCONISH: Hippocratic Oath applies to her because they think that they have a firmly now and they don't want to blow it.
GREGORY: But, again, what people are interested in watching is that here is this historic figure in Kamala Harris who, by the way, is the future of a Democratic Party as she sits here tonight as the running mate, potential vice president and likely presidential nominee down the road, at least at this juncture. Boy, that's a lot to learn about somebody if you don't know a lot about them.
BURNETT: It is an exciting debate to watch. As Scott Walker said, regardless of where you stand on the issues, seeing this debate, seeing her there is a moment in history for this country and a good one for all.
Thank you all so very much.
And to all of you, our coverage of the Democrat -- of the debate in America continues right now.
(MUSIC)
COOPER: We're about an hour away from what may be the most important vice presidential debate in history as President Trump remains infected with the virus that has killed 211,000 Americans so far, it is debate night in America. I'm Anderson Cooper.
Well, Vice President Pence and Senator Kamala Harris about to engage in their first and only face-off at an urgent and uncertain moment in the coronavirus pandemic. They're meeting at the University of Utah in Salt Lake City, what amounts to a crisis debate as they aim to show voters that they are qualified to be a heartbeat away from the presidency.
Mr. Trump's illness is driving home the advanced age of their running mates and their duty to step up if needed. The pandemic is having an impact on the debate even before the candidates are asked about COVID- 19 and the administration's handling of it.
