Return to Transcripts main page
Erin Burnett Outfront
Trump Holds PA Rally as Closing Days Become Increasingly Erratic; First Lady Backs Out of Trump Rally in Key Swing State of PA Due to Lingering Cough Amid Coronavirus Recovery; Biden Showing Momentum in Key Swing States as Trump Fights to Hold Down States He Won in 2016. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired October 20, 2020 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: May they rest in peace and may their memories be a blessing.
Erin Burnett OUTFRONT starts right now.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next, Trump's erratic closing argument abruptly ending a national interview attacking the media, attacking Dr. Fauci, even top Republicans are saying change course now.
Plus, the path to 270, John King on who has the momentum and which states are flipping.
And an alarming warning tonight from Trump's former FDA Commissioner, Dr. Scott Gottlieb, warning the U.S. could be just days away from a 'rapid acceleration of cases'. Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, frantic and erratic. Trump's behavior two weeks before election day is causing fear among Republicans tonight. Top Republicans saying get it together and change course fast. So will the President listen to that advice? He's got a chance tonight. Live pictures, rally. This rally is in Erie, Pennsylvania. A county the President won by fewer than 2,000 votes in 2016.
He needs every vote to get him across the finish line, yet the President today chose to focus his ire, yet again, on Dr. Anthony Fauci.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He's a nice guy, but he's been wrong. The only thing I say is he's a little bit, sometimes not a team player. But he is a Democrat and I think that he's just fine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Of course, Fauci is not a Democrat, even though that wouldn't matter. And the attacks on Fauci are causing concern among Republicans and that's part of why our Manu Raju is now reporting that several influential Republicans have been pleading with the President to change his ways immediately.
Sen. John Thune is the second most powerful Republican in the Senate. And he tells Manu and I quote Sen. Thune here, "I would like to see in the closing days of the campaign him prosecute the argument against the Democrats and the difference in policies. Stay away from personal attacks. Quit attacking the media. Quit attacking Fauci and focus on issues. He's got to stay disciplined to do it, and I think that's how you're going to win over the middle people."
OK. So you just heard the list of things Sen. Thune said not to do. In other words, he's saying President Trump, don't do this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Michigan, she has to open up. She wants to be a dictator in Michigan, and the people can't stand her.
Now we have Kristen Welker. She's a disaster.
Pandemic, they're getting tired of the pandemic, aren't they? Getting tired of the pandemic. You turn on CNN, that's all they cover, COVID, COVID, pandemic, COVID ...
People are tired of hearing Fauci and all these idiots. Fauci is a disaster. I mean, if I listen to him, we'd have 500,000 deaths.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Stay away from personal attacks, quit attacking the media, quit attacking Fauci. Good luck, Sen. Thune. Just tonight, is it to put an explanation point on the chaos Trump has created, the President abruptly walked out of an interview with Lesley Stahl of 60 Minutes. An interview that he had chosen to do. He had acquiesced to doing. He had sat down to do and then he walked out.
CNN learning the President spoke with Stahl for about 45 minutes and then he was supposed to tape a joint interview with the Vice President Mike Pence. The President though then walked away. Then he tweeted a video, attacking Stahl for not wearing a mask during the interview.
Now a person familiar with the situation tells CNN Stahl had a mask on from the time she entered the White House until just before the interview began. That video was apparently taken immediately after Trump ended the interview and Stahl had not yet gone back to get her mask.
Just now Trump tweeting, " I am pleased to inform you that, for the sake of accuracy in reporting, I am considering posting my interview with Lesley Stahl of 60 Minutes, PRIOR TO AIRTIME! This will be done so that everybody can get a glimpse of what a FAKE and BIASED interview is all about." OK.
Sen. Thune, what did you say again? Quit attacking the media. Again, good luck, Sen. Thune.
Is picking a fight like that, really spending time on that a good use of time? That's what this comes down to for the President of the United States when there are two weeks to go until Election Day. Even the President's own party says no.
Kaitlan Collins is traveling with the President tonight OUTFRONT in Erie. So Kaitlan, what were you learning about what happened here, why the President walked out of that interview?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, we're told they were in the room together for about 45 minutes doing this interview. And then, the President abruptly ended it, did not want to go on any longer. It was not a mutual agreement to stop the interview there.
And then, of course, the President never returned for that tape portion that they were going to do with the Vice President. So Vice President Mike Pence taped his own interview separately and they are not appearing on camera together as scheduled.
But the way you're seeing the President lash out, as you just noted, he is on Twitter, Erin, is really this pattern that we're seeing this week where the President has preemptively gone after the debate moderator for Thursday night. He's also gone after another reporter for what he considered was not asking enough about that unsubstantiated New York Post story and then also these attacks against Dr. Fauci.
[19:05:09]
The sustained messaging that the President is using that is not exactly what his political aides thought was going to be his closing message to voters with just two weeks to go before the election. And it's also clearly not what Republicans want to see either because you're seeing Republicans start to distance themselves from the President and from his messaging.
And so this is not what he aides had picture, but this is how the President is responding in a way that some people have said is predictable that, of course, he is going to go after someone like Lesley Stahl. Because remember they did that 2016 interview as well and the President has really held this kind of grudge against Lesley Stahl since then.
But it is on tape, the White House has not released any of that yet. Neither has 60 Minutes, so we'll just have to wait to see exactly what it was, what the President's reaction was when he wraps that interview.
BURNETT: All right. Kaitlan, thank you very much. And OUTFRONT now Abby Phillip, CNN Political Correspondent, Ed Goeas, Republican pollster and strategist, and former Political Director of the National Republican Congressional Committee, and Paul Begala, who served as White House counselor to President Clinton.
Ed, let me start with you. You hear Sen. Thune, stop attacking the media, stop having these personal attacks, of course, as the President continues to do those things. Are Republicans doing the right thing to call that out, to run away from Trump right now or not?
ED GOEAS, REPUBLICAN POLLSTER AND STRATEGIST: I don't know that it's running away as much as is calling among things that he needs to be called on and it does need to stop. It's not helping the environment at all. It is very interesting that if you look at four years ago, both candidates that were running, both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump, hit over a 50 percent unfavorable rating. That's not where this race is today.
He is still upside down by 10 points on his favorables and Biden is net 18 points better on his favorables. So as he finds people lash out, all he's doing is activating his negatives. He's not helping draw any new voters to him at this point.
BURNETT: So Paul, when you hear Ed's analysis, I mean, that's just his objective analysis as Republican pollster. Are Democrats feeling confident right now or if so, do they do so at their own peril?
PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: They do so at their peril and you're exactly right. They're not overconfident, believe me. They're living in this border town between passionate and panicked. In fact I talk to Democrats all the time.
The most common thing that Democrats say is - they're scared to death and they're highly motivated and I want them to be that way. I'm sorry for screaming your ear, but that's what they say. Seriously, you call them, that's what they say, a primal scream at the prospect that somehow Trump might get a second term. So they're highly motivated.
BURNETT: So Abby, the President says he's going to release the 60 Minutes footage. Let's just be clear, though, obviously there's Sen. Thune saying just stop with these wars with the media. They're not helpful right now. So the President is now doing this whole thing with 60 Minutes.
The audience for that show, obviously, is not just his base, though. Ed is talking about those very small group, but the undecided or independents who haven't quite decided what they're going to do. But the President clearly thinks that this battle going back to his usual tropes works with two weeks to go.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I don't know that the President really cares whether it's working or not. It seems like he's acting based on what he wants to do what he thinks is the most comfortable for him in response to provocations whether it was a tough questioning from Lesley Stahl or perhaps feeling like the interview was tougher on him than it might have been on Dr. Fauci or on Joe Biden, who also had a recent interviews on 60 Minutes.
So the strategy, honestly, there is no strategy to any of this. I mean, think about 60 Minutes as a program. The reason the President cares so much about it is because it has a lot of viewers and a lot of those viewers are actually people he needs to support him older voters who he's struggling with in this campaign.
So when it comes to strategy, the President is going against a strategy that would work best for him. And on top of that, even if you take all of this stuff that the campaign is trying to put out there about Hunter Biden, all of these attacks on the media are a distraction from even that message. And I'm not sure that message is breaking through.
So you have the President kind of going here, there and everywhere. There is no strategy whatsoever. And he's not talking about the one thing that he is really competitive with Joe Biden on and that's the economy. That's what Sen. Thune is trying to get him focused on. The President seems very disinterested in that.
BURNETT: So Ed, the polls right now do give Biden a big lead nationally and you're referring to the favorables/unfavorables just as a gauge how people have an emotional feel for someone.
[19:10:03]
You do have some key states though within the margin of error, must- win states. Clinton, of course, came into the 2016 election with a national lead and Trump still won. Because it came down to those specific counties, those places where the margin was so razor thin. Is it possible we see a repeat this time of that?
GOEAS: Here's where I think things are different. In 2016, 24 percent of the electorate all through the fall dislike both candidates. And going into the final weeks, neither candidate was getting more than 20 percent of that vote, 60 percent of it was up for grabs, it was the swing vote of 2016.
Whoever got the focus of the negative last was going to lose and that's what happened with the FBI report. This year, it's only 7 percent dislike both candidates and that's where his numbers in terms of Biden's being net positive by 10 points is so important. Because even if you look at these close races that are equally close to several years ago, 19 percent of the voters that voted on election day in 2016 dislike both candidates and he ended up getting a three to one margin with most of those voters and most of those key states.
There's not enough of those voters. They're not the swing vote this year. He has to pull those voters back and he's not going to pull him back at this point by getting them to dislike Biden.
BURNETT: Right. It doesn't work that way, so then so then Paul, how or do you think there's any strategy or anything to the media battles that he's picking now? Kristen Welker is the moderator for the debate this week, so he's now slamming her. And, of course, walking out of the interview with Lesley Stahl. So he's playing up the media thing as much as he can right now.
BEGALA: And I think Abby's reporting is spot on. I don't think this is driven by a strategy. You heard Sen. Thune, you heard Ed Goeas. I mean, Mr. Trump would do very well to listen to Ed, to listen to Sen. Thune.
But what they're saying is focus on issues, focus on the economy, stop the attacks on Dr. Fauci, stop inciting domestic terrorism. But it's like telling Trump that all he needs is a six pack ab and a full head of hair. It's not going to happen. He's Trump. Trump's going to Trump.
And these Republicans running away from him, they're running like the devil runs from holy water. In my home State of Texas, John Cornyn who votes with Trump 96 percent of the time is now trying to distance himself from Trump. I mean, even Trump doesn't agree with Trump 96 percent of the time and yet Cornyn is somehow trying now to run away from him.
BURNETT: Ed, does the slamming of Fauci, what are your feelings on that? How that plays?
GOEAS: Well, I kind of saw that a little bit differently. Whenever you see Trump going out there and just story after story after story going after someone and everyone is kind of shaking their head on what's going on, I thought the story that was going to be out there yesterday morning was that the gross national product in China, the third quarter was 4.9 percent. And the story about how they shut things down, they got control the virus and then they reopened the economy and it's grown in the second and third quarter.
BURNETT: Yes, it's ripping. Yes.
GOEAS: I think what he was doing yesterday was trying and he was effective at it is to divert the attention away from that story, not one news network play that trend story after about nine o'clock yesterday morning.
BURNETT: And you're saying that that would have been, what, a very bad story for Trump.
GOEAS: Whenever he is going on a tangent like that, he's usually trying to divert from something he thinks is more harmful.
BURNETT: Abby, do you think that's what it's about? I mean, obviously, just to put the context around that, that would show the Chinese strategy, which was complete lockdown had worked and China is rising stronger than ever, when he's trying to say, oh, I'm the guy you should be picking to take on China.
PHILLIP: It's possible that that's part of the calculus, but I also think having covered this president for several years, the President lashes out at people who he thinks are attacking him. And in this case, Dr. Fauci said things about the President. He talked about how the White House held a super spreader event. He wasn't surprised that the President contracted the coronavirus.
He was sort of saying things that the President did not find to be complimentary and talking about wanting to encourage the President to encourage mask wearing. I mean, look, I think that there's generally in the President's mind, a sense that Fauci needs to get in line and really be in his words, a team player, and he wasn't doing that.
Sure, I think it is definitely possible that the President is trying to distract from other headlines that undercut his argument about the strategy that U.S. should be taking. But I also think that at this point, the President is acting based on his gut instincts and his impulses more than anything else.
BURNETT: All right. Well, thank you all very much. I appreciate it.
And next, John King at the magic wall since we are now T minus two weeks. It comes down to the number 270 and so many votes already cast. Who has the momentum this hour?
[19:15:07]
Plus, Trump's former FDA Commissioner with a dire warning about the coronavirus. Gov. Tim Walz of Minnesota OUTFRONT about the surge in his State and the connection to that rally. Remember the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally? Well, it could be a big part of all this.
Plus, the push to get one of the most powerful voting blocks to the polls.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:19:13]
BURNETT: New tonight, First Lady Melania Trump backing out of her first Trump campaign event in over a year because of a lingering cough. She recovers from Coronavirus. The rally taking place tonight in Pennsylvania, a key state to Trump's surprise victory in 2016. A state though that could be on the verge of flipping back to Joe Biden. So John King is OUTFRONT the magic wall.
So John, when you look at Pennsylvania, what are you seeing there and other key swing states when it comes to this - where we are here, this all important path to 270?
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Erin, we're two weeks out and look at the map. It is clear advantage, Joe Biden. We have 290 electoral votes, the President at 163, dark blue solid Biden light blue leans Biden same for the Republican side.
So why are Democrats so nervous? Because they are haunted by 2016.
First, let's take a look at the National numbers. I'm the person who tells you all the time, don't over invest in national numbers, but Democrats have reason to be confident.
[19:20:06]
When you have a double digit lead, this is the average CNN poll of polls, averaging five recent credible national polls and 11 point lead tells you that's pretty comfortable. If it gets inside single digits, that's when you worry. So on the surface, Democrats should be happy.
But let's do the state by state and that's where you see some reason to be a little bit cautious if not nervous. Let's go state by state. Ten states CNN rates as the most important battleground. In three of them; Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan, you see a pretty healthy, comfortable Biden lead, although nothing is comfortable in American politics. But look at the others. Texas, the President has a narrow lead. Ohio, call that a tie, call
that a small Biden lead, same in Georgia, Iowa is a tie, North Carolina, Florida, Arizona, very narrow Biden leads certainly within play for the President. So let's play that out on our map.
We already lean Texas Republican, let's say the President keeps it. Let's say he gets Arizona back perfectly within the realm of possibility and let's say he runs the toss up states. The President wins Iowa, the President wins Ohio, the President wins North Carolina, the President wins Georgia and the President wins Florida, these are all states the President won in 2016 not out of the realm at all, they would win them again. Where's that get you? 279 to 258. Where else does that get you? Back to Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania.
Under this scenario, if the President won Pennsylvania, again, game over for more years for Donald Trump, right there. Let's say Joe Biden holds on, he was born in Pennsylvania, let's say he holds it. It's 20. It's the biggest of these prizes. President could still get there with the scenario I showed you plus Michigan again.
And what if Joe Biden holds Michigan, but the President once again surprises us in Wisconsin? At that point, it could get interesting, 269 to 268. Who wins Maine's second congressional districts in that scenario? If Joe Biden does, he's the President of the United States. If Donald Trump does, it's 269, 269 and it goes to the House of Representatives.
I am not suggesting that's what is going to happen. What I am suggesting is if you're Joe Biden and you're looking at this map now and you're thinking how big, how bold, where do I spend my money, do I think I can win Texas, how much time should I spend in Georgia.
The one lesson is, remember, right now, you're leading comfortably in Wisconsin, in Michigan, in Pennsylvania and remember 2016, those were the three that made Donald Trump president. If Joe Biden wants to win, priority number one, flip those back to Blue, Erin.
BURNETT: John King, thank you.
And I want to go now to Larry Sabato, the Founder and Director of the University of Virginia Center for Politics. So Larry, I'm really glad to have you back on, OK. So you and John King on the same page in terms of the electoral votes. You both have Biden up at 290. Obviously, that gets you the White House.
But let's talk about where you see the momentum. Where do you see Biden with the most momentum right now?
LARRY SABATO, FOUNDER AND DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA CENTER FOR POLITICS: I don't know that there's momentum, Erin, and by the way it's kind of phenomenal. John King and I don't coordinate, we have exactly the same electoral college map for both Trump and for Biden, not that that should lend any credibility to either one. But the fact is, we agree.
I don't think there's momentum as much as their stability. And there wasn't stability. Four years ago, Hillary Clinton was up and down at sometimes she was tied with Trump. And there was there was something going on as we found out on election night. Whereas this one, at least for most people, seems to be at least preliminarily decided in their minds about their vote.
BURNETT: So OK, are there any states, it's interesting, I like how you phrase that, we're not talking so much momentum as we are stability. Are there places where you think Democrats should be concerned?
SABATO: Well, they need to be concerned in the five total tossups, because Trump won them all last time. He won Iowa. He won Ohio. He won North Carolina. He won Georgia. He won Florida.
Of course, if Joe Biden can take even one of those winning the other states already leaning to him, I think we may actually have an early election night. Some of the ones leading to him, though, need extra work, whether it's Nevada, which ought to go Democratic, but we all know the Hispanic vote is not as solidly Democratic this year as it was four years ago or Arizona. It's always going to be close for a Democrat.
It's amazing that a Democrat could even carry it. Only Clinton did in 1996 and that was a three way race with Dole and Perot.
BURNETT: It's pretty incredible when you look at it. Now, you mentioned Iowa. Trump won Iowa by nearly 10 percentage points in 2016. So the fact that you're now talking about that as one of your toss up states, just to give people context on the significance of that move in and of itself.
But you actually also say that state being in play could actually decide the Senate as well.
SABATO: Yes. The amazing thing is that a freshman Republican who was thought to be safe at the beginning of the year, Joni Ernst, is now either tied or a bit behind the Democrat Theresa Greenfield.
[19:25:04]
And she seems to have a consistent yet small lead and she seems to be doing a bit better in her state than Biden does overall. Biden-Trump are tied 50-50. They're right there next to one another.
So yes, it could and if not Iowa, not Greenfield, it could be North Carolina if the Democratic candidate Cal Cunningham hangs on despite the scandal. The one term Republican there, Thom Tillis has been trailing for virtually the entire general election period.
BURNETT: Yes. That has been a fascinating race to watch and a lot of unexpected curveballs, as you point out. Republicans, though, Larry, are pointing to voter registration right now in some of these key states. Everybody's been watching this voter registration to try to figure out what you can read into it. Some data show they have narrowed the gap in some crucial states, like North Carolina, like Pennsylvania, like Florida. A states that, by the way, in 2016, as you point out, did go for
Trump. So when you look at that voter registration data and Republicans think that it looks good for them, do you agree or do you think there's a nuance we're missing?
SABATO: Actually, it's not clear. It could be one of several things not to bore your readers, but could be one of several things. I think it's more important to say, yes, that could be a plus for Republicans. But the tremendous turnout we're seeing in many of these states, dominated by Democrats.
Clearly, there about two thirds of the people showing up is a good sign for Democrats. It's a good sign for Biden. So you can play this game all day and all night. And in the end, all of these different variables will balance out and we'll have a winner. And right now in mid-October, it looks to be more likely Joe Biden than Donald Trump, 14 days in the Trump administration, 14 eternity, so we'll see.
BURNETT: Right. I mean, so much could change and obviously we still have that debate coming up. Thank you very much, Larry.
SABATO: Thank you, Erin.
BURNETT: And next, a former Trump official warning of a rapid acceleration of the virus in coming days. The Minnesota Governor, Tim Walz, is OUTFRONT to talk about the surge he's saying in his state.
And breaking news this hour, the Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell telling the White House not to make a major stimulus deal with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi before the election.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:31:18]
BURNETT: Tonight, a grim warning from President Trump's former chief of the FDA. Dr. Scott Gottlieb sounding the alarm that the U.S. may be about a week away from a, quote, rapid acceleration of coronavirus cases. This as 31 states across the country are seeing increases in new cases over the past week, and not a single state in the continental United States is heading down. Not a single state.
Erica Hill is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ERICA HILL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The dreaded second wave now washing over the U.S.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nearly ever region in the state has seen an increase in COVID-related hospitalizations over the last week.
HILL: Illinois among the 42 states reporting a rise in hospitalizations, 14 hitting new peaks.
It's not just hospitals setting records. Nationwide, the virus is surging.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These numbers are grim. They are going the wrong direction.
HILL: Undergrads at the University of Michigan, now at a stay at home order for two weeks. County health officials say students account for more than 60 percent of new cases in the area.
Michigan is among the 31 states seeing a rise in new cases over the past week. Just one, Hawaii, seeing a decline.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Over the next five or six months, I think up through February or March, we are heading into the worst part of the pandemic for this country.
HILL: New case numbers are typically lower on Mondays. This week, the U.S. added more than 58,000, topping a Monday record set three months ago.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For the first time in many areas, we're seeing over half the cases having no recognized risk exposure, meaning they didn't know somebody that was infected. So, it shows you how often this virus transmission is in our communities.
HILL: That silent spread fueling new concern and advice about the holidays.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's unnatural for us to think, oh, those people that we love and trust could also be carrying the virus. But this is a silent killer.
HILL: The head of the National Institutes of Health, the latest expert to announce his own family won't be gathering.
DR. FRANCIS COLLINS, DIRECTOR, NIH: For the first time in 27 years, there will be no family Thanksgiving. It is just not safe to take that kind of chance.
HILL: But staying safe over the next several months can be lonely.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's going to be a huge impact on mental health. You're going to get sad, scared, depressed. This is a normal response to a stressful situation.
HILL: Channeling that stress into exercise, meditation or virtual gatherings can help. And there's some encouraging news. A new study finds ventilation, including open windows, spacing, desk shields and hand washing, greatly reduce the spread in classrooms, hopefully allowing more scenes like this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good morning. How are you?
HILL: A bright spot amid an uncertain future.
(END VIDEOTAPE) HILL: Now, Erin, one thing health experts agree on, they said the next few week also be difficult. Just to note what's happening here in New York state, there are now 40 states on that travel quarantine list. If you arrive from one of those 40 states, it's a mandatory 14- day quarantine. Arizona, Maryland added today. One note, Connecticut, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania get a pass because, of course, there's so much business that happens between all those states -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Erica.
And we should note that the reason they're saying they get a pass is because, you know, Connecticut and New Jersey should be on the list by the metrics they put on there.
All right. OUTFRONT now, the Democratic governor of Minnesota, Tim Walz.
And, Governor, you saw the map. Minnesota, one of 16 states that saw their highest seven-day average for new cases yesterday. Why are cases going up right now?
GOV. TIM WALZ (D), MINNESOTA: Well, Erin, the Upper Midwest is obviously a hot spot. I think, obviously, people talk about COVID fatigue, but the lack of a national strategy has created a hodgepodge of what states are doing.
[19:35:01] And we've seen states positivity rates creep way up. Well, here in Minnesota, we've been able to keep it right around 5 percent until this last week or so. Now we're going up. We see the highest case counts in the Dakotas, in Wisconsin and others.
And we're moving back inside. We got a half foot of snow today. People will be moving back inside. We still need to have that national strategy to tackle this through testing, contact tracing and doing all of the fundamentals.
BURNETT: So you mentioned the Dakotas, and you know, I remember covering the 10-day Sturgis motorcycle rally right in your neighboring state of South Dakota in August. And expert after expert, every single epidemiological expert said that that rally should not happen, but it did. And there are some now experts who say it's possibly related to this entire, you know, case surge that you're seeing in the upper Midwest.
Do you think that could be the case?
WALZ: Well, I think it probably contributed some to it. We know that we got transmissions here in Minnesota from that. It's obviously -- I've been out there to Sturgis, these are things that are important to people.
But in a time of a pandemic, we simply have to shut this thing down. This has dragged on longer than it should have, had we followed the basic principles of epidemiology.
I think we're seeing it amongst family gatherings. We see it at weddings, funerals, and then just backyard times together. So I think hearing your previous guests, I'm worried about the holidays. These numbers are concerning.
We have hospital capacity in Minnesota right now. We built up for it. But you saw how this can overwhelm a state's capacity and you have to build surge capacity in. It's a tough time right now and I think it's only going to get tougher here and we have not hit flu season yet.
BURNETT: So, Governor Walz, the former FDA commissioner under President Trump, Scott Gottlieb, now predicts that the U.S. may be a week away from what he calls a, quote-unquote rapid acceleration. Just a moment ago, you were telling me, look, things were -- you know, a week ago, they were not great, but we were holding it, and then, all of a sudden it popped.
So, when you hear him say a week away from a rapid acceleration, do you think that -- is that what you're seeing, too? Are things about to get a lot worse in Minnesota?
WALZ: Yeah, I believe him. You know, I wish it wasn't this.
This virus, now, we have learned a lot about it. It is a lot more predictable now for us. But human behavior is not. We're seeing folks that are openly -- we have a mask mandate here. But, you know, just yesterday, I had folks in the legislature say we need to take off regulations and people will manage it themselves.
That's what we have seen happen, and it's inevitable that you're going to see this growth.
And I think that exponential growth and I think that tipping point that he's talking about is setting in a lot of states in the Upper Midwest. So, yes, we're nervous and stressing to folks to do what makes a difference.
If we social distance, if wear a mask, if we wash our hands, then we've got greatly expanded testing, we got saliva testing, we're going to allow people can do at home for free and get the results in 24 hours. We need that type of national strategy.
BURNETT: So, President Trump has been attacking Dr. Fauci, right, called him an idiot, called him a disaster. As you know, yesterday, Governor Walz, and today, this is what he just said.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He's a nice guy, but he's been wrong. The only thing I say is, he's a little bit sometimes not a team player. But he is a Democrat, and I think that he's just fine.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BURNETT: Governor, I don't like to have to correct it, because it shouldn't matter what Fauci is, but he's not a Democrat. He's actually never been registered with a political party. But you talk about your legislature. Some are still pushing to open up
everything. Does this message of attacking Fauci, is it working at all in your state?
WALZ: No. You know, to your viewers, we're home of the Mayo Clinic. We're home of Medtronic, 3M. Medical technology is our biggest industry, one of our biggest industries. People here get it.
But it does make it hard. It makes it hard for people to follow along. This should never have become this political as it has.
Dr. Fauci is right about so many things. He's not right about everything, none of us are when following the science of learning. But the idea that -- you know, I'm listening to my experts at Mayo, at the University of Minnesota, Dr. Fauci, the CDC.
And again, here we are, seven months into this, done it as poorly as any nation on Earth. We've lost nearly a quarter million of our neighbors. We just need to stop this. We need to focus on what it's going to take. Help us, help the states.
Governors don't have time to complain about this. We need to build this out. But we've built 50 different testing strategies and we've all competed against one another.
We have one state that has a rule, and then the next one across doesn't. People travel back and forth for work across the state lines.
So, we need to listen to Dr. Fauci. We need to listen to the experts. We need to have a national strategy. We need to hunker down and beat this thing.
And any wishful thing is not going to get it. Science will get it.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much. I appreciate your time, Governor.
[19:40:02]
WALZ: You're welcome, Erin.
BURNETT: And next, a potential setback to the president's push for a massive stimulus deal to help millions of Americans struggling tonight.
And Trump barely won Michigan in 2016. But tonight, a big push in the state to make sure it doesn't happen again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: President Trump says often that he's done more for the black community.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't event need to finish. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's full of (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Breaking news: Senator Majority Leader Mitch McConnell warning the White House against making a coronavirus stimulus deal with the House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. CNN learning McConnell cautioned that a big stimulus deal with Pelosi could badly divide Republicans right before the election.
But after continuing negotiations with the White House earlier, Pelosi now confident it seems with House Democrats tonight, telling them in a letter, quote, I remain hopeful that we can reach an agreement before the election.
[19:45:01]
OUTFRONT now, Congresswoman Katie Porter. She sits on the Financial Services and Oversight and Reform Committees.
And it's great to see you again.
So, okay, it's been a failure to get a deal. Negotiations started three months ago. There's been nothing, right, the president said they were off and then they were on. And now his new strategy is that he wants to go even bigger than Democrats want to go.
So, are you worried that sort of this is not going to be a good deal for you? I mean, he obviously thinks going bigger than you is going to be smart.
REP. KATIE PORTER (D-CA): Well, I think the issue is, are we creating a deal that's going to meet the needs of the American people?
And as you mentioned, it's been months since we passed a coronavirus relief package, even the needs have continued to grow -- people continuing to be out of work, people needing food, people behind on their rent and the additional needs for testing and treatment, and most of all, the need for state and local funding.
So, I think, you know, the people who say I want it bigger or smaller, it's really, are you going to meet the needs of the American people? That's the question we should ask ourselves about any deal, whether it's put forward by Republicans or Democrats.
BURNETT: So you think the president is sincere, he'll sign something before the election?
PORTER: Well, I think the president is at least making the right overtures. I mean, he sent Secretary Mnuchin to talk with Speaker Pelosi several times.
BURNETT: Yeah.
PORTER: They seem to be talking in a regular basis.
I think the problem here is with the United States Senate. Mitch McConnell continues to say, treat this like a political issue. When, in fact, for so many Americans who are sitting around the dinner table, hoping they're going to have enough food, discussing how they're going to keep the electricity on, this is excruciatingly personal.
So what I'm concerned about is that even if the White House and the Democrats get to a deal, which I think we can, that the Senate Republicans are not going to come along.
BURNETT: So, I want to ask you about the final presidential debate, right? This week, there is a new rule, cutting a candidate's mic while the opponent is answering a question on a new topic. You know, as a broadcaster, I find it terrifying rule, because I don't know how they can enforce it and do it. So, I think it's quite problematic.
But it does complicate the president's tactic to interrupt. But the president is saying this could help him. Paul Begala was saying this might be bad for Joe Biden, because Biden will hear Trump interrupting him and it may throw Biden off, even though the viewer can't hear. I mean, this is a double edge sword.
If you were advising Biden, what would you tell him to do?
PORTER: Well, I think it's really important that the American people have an opportunity to hear from both candidates, and as every parent has told squabbling children, I can't hear when you're both talking at once. You need to take turns and tell me your side of the story.
And so, I think the effort to make sure that one person can speak uninterrupted is really an effort to create a kind of civil discourse, which I think the American people on both sides of the aisle are hungry for. So, I'm sure it will be a little bit different than what they're used to. But I thought the last presidential debate was something different that we've seen in the past.
BURNETT: Different is one word. Diplomatic take there, Congresswoman.
All right. So, Senator Dianne Feinstein is the ranking member of the Judiciary Committee. She's under fire because she praised the Republican's handling of the Amy Coney Barrett hearing. She said, quote, that they are one of the best set of hearings that I've participated in, right? Pretty significant thing to say.
Minority Leader Chuck Schumer says he had a, quote, long and serious talk with Feinstein when asked if she should remain the top Democrat on the committee.
So, I know you disagreed with what she said, but do you think that she should essentially lose her job for it? I mean, should she keep her post on that committee or not?
PORTER: Well, that's really a discussion for Senate Democrats to be having. Each of the parties in the House and the Senate, Democrats and Republicans, are going to have to decide on whether -- who are the right leaders to push us forward after the election. So, that's between Senate Democrats to make up their own mind.
But I do think that it's healthy and okay for Democrats to express different opinions.
I was really disappointed in the Amy Coney Barrett hearing. Amy Coney Barrett did not answer the vast majority of questions she was asked, and we're left not knowing what we're getting with a nominee. And the American people deserve better.
BURNETT: Before we go, just because I have a couple of seconds, and I'm sure all our viewers have noticed, your necklace. Is it a balance of power necklace?
PORTER: It's called the 51-49 necklace. It represents the minimum Senate majority that we need for Democrats to begin legislating in the Senate, which Mitch McConnell has failed to do.
BURNETT: And is that your prediction that that's what you'll have -- you'll have that vote?
PORTER: I'm going for -- I'm going for 52 or 53. I'm not leaving anything on the table.
BURNETT: Fifty-two or 53. But I can see, as you said, that's the 51 and I can see -- I can see the one.
All right. Thank you very much, Congresswoman. I appreciate your time.
PORTER: Thank you.
BURNETT: And you can watch that last presidential debate live on CNN on Thursday night. Special coverage starting at 7:00 p.m. Eastern.
And OUTFRONT next, black women voters in the key state of Michigan, telling us what they're voting for.
[19:50:03]
And it comes with a warning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You think the Democratic Party takes you for granted?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely. Absolutely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Tonight, early voters smashing record within only 14 days until the election. The total number of ballots so far, more than 33 million. In Michigan, 1.5 million people have already voted which already surpasses the 1.1 million voters voted early in all of 2016. Trump won Michigan at an incredibly slim margin for 2016, right? We got two more weeks to go.
Now, Trump won Michigan by 10,704 votes. It's an incredibly slim margin. It's only two-tenths of 1 percent. That was 2016. That makes voter turnout crucial.
Kate Bolduan is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[19:55:00]
WENDY CALDWELL-LIDDELL, FOUNDER, MOBILIZE DETROIT: I think that the apathy has just grown and has just become so persuasive in our community because people are just trying to survive, that we have to get back to empowering people.
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Twenty-nine-year-old Wendy Caldwell-Liddell is a woman with no shortage of energy.
She doesn't work for any campaign. But since August, she spends three days a week every week between her full-time job and taking care of two kids, using that energy to try to convince fellow Detroiters their vote matters.
CALDWELL-LIDDELL: At this point, this is our survival now. What happens politically is apart of our survival. There is no escaping it.
BOLDUAN (on camera): Ten thousand seven hundred and four. What does that number mean to you?
CALDWELL-LIDDELL: Is that how many votes Trump won by?
BOLDUAN: That's exactly how many votes.
CALDWELL-LIDDELL: So, that number -- it hurts, it hurts.
BOLDUAN (voice-over): Wayne County which includes Detroit went for Hillary Clinton by a wide margin in 2016. But she got about 76,000 viewer votes there than Obama did in 2012. Remember, Trump won the entire state by just 10,704 votes.
(on camera): Are you voting for Joe Biden or are you more voting against Donald Trump?
CALDWELL-LIDDELL: Eighty percent against Donald Trump, 20 percent for Joe Biden. I would say that.
BOLDUAN: What does it mean?
CALDWELL-LIDDELL: It means that I know that as a voter and as a black woman, that that this job that I have to do in order to get a representative who'll come close to protecting my people in office, but I'm not necessarily excited about having another representative there who really does not inherently understand the needs of our community.
BOLDUAN: Marquitta Blancher, like Wendy, has lived in Detroit her whole life. But at 63 years old, she sees the choice this election a bit differently.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am 100 percent voting for Biden.
BOLDUAN (on camera): Does Biden make you excited?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, yes, yes, yes, he does. His enthusiasm, his past record, it's like a charge.
BOLDUAN: President Trump says he has done more for the black community.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's --
BOLDUAN: No, I don't even need to finish.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's full of (EXPLETIVE DELETED). You know what I'm saying. He has not done nothing. I've had people say, well, he's not my president. I didn't vote.
I'd say, would you vote at all? They say, no, I didn't vote. I say, if you did not vote, you did vote for him.
BOLDUAN (voice-over): Amber Davis (ph) is one of those Detroiters who voted for Obama in 2012 and didn't vote at all in 2016.
(on camera): Why didn't you vote in 2016?
AMBER DAVIS (ph), VOTER: I didn't want Trump and I didn't want Hillary. I didn't really care who won that election.
BOLDUAN: So, what's your plan this election?
DAVIS: I don't like Biden but I voted for Biden. This is for coronavirus and everything that's going on. It's just horrible. So, he got to go.
BOLDUAN: One path to flipping Michigan blue again and a critical pursuit to the Biden campaign is getting those voters who sat out four years ago to show up this time. And the sign the Trump campaign knows this, it has an office right down the road from the Democrats, specifically targeting black voters in Detroit.
How unusual is that? Because you see, forget Trump, but a Republican presidential campaign opening an office in west side of Detroit.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I've never seen it. I've never seen it, ever, ever before.
BOLDUAN: What does it tell you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The importance of not only Michigan but Detroit and the black vote, because the party, both parties need us. Really. BOLDUAN: Everyone always talks about on TV, they always talk about
how black women or the backbone of the Democratic Party.
CALDWELL-LIDDELL: We are, we are. Black women are the backbone.
BOLDUAN: But do you think the Democratic Party takes you for granted?
CALDWELL-LIDDELL: Absolutely. Absolutely they take us for granted, because they know that black women are going to help them get the big wins they need to where it matters but they also know that they can give us the bare minimum knowing that we are not going to choose the other side.
BOLDUAN: What does that say about the country?
CALDWELL-LIDDELL: It says we still got a long way to go, when the backbone of the country is the most neglected.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: So, Kate, I mean, you know interesting all those women you spoke to, and I am wondering how Kamala Harris joining the Democratic ticket has impacted their view on the election or whether you found it hasn't at all?
BOLDUAN: Look, this is fascinating. A lot and also not at all. Wendy said she actually likes Kamala Harris more than she likes Joe Biden, and it makes you more confident in the campaign. But the women we spoke to who didn't vote in 2016 who is voting for Biden this time, she says -- she said Kamala Harris doesn't impact her vote at all. She sees her as just another politician who hasn't delivered for her.
And you know this, Erin, this is a slice of the electorate. It's not necessarily predictive of how this is going to swing. But, clearly, both parties have work to do with this very passionate, reliable voter -- these voters, black women.
BURNETT: Wow, all right. Thank you so much, Kate.
And thanks very much to all of you for being with us.
"AC360" starts now.
