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Erin Burnett Outfront
Campaigns Consulted With Dr. Fauci on Removing Plexiglass; Source: Biden Prepped in Mock Debates for Trump Attacks, Interruptions; Trump Advisers Plead for President to Take Less Combative Approach; Awaiting Start of Final Trump-Biden Debate. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired October 22, 2020 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM. I'll be back one hour from now. CNN special coverage of the final presidential debate between President Trump and former Vice President Biden begins right now.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: We are awaiting a high stakes debate rematch tonight between President Donald Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden. They are going head-to-head for the last time before this election, which is now just 12 days away. It is Debate Night In America and this is a special edition of OUTFRONT. I'm Erin Burnett.
Now, what we are all about to see collectively in this country is another unprecedented twist in the history of modern presidential debates. When this final round of 2020 begins at Belmont University, which is in Nashville, Tennessee. There's a new rule in place to try to prevent this Trump-Biden debate from going off the rails like the first one did when the President kept interrupting.
This time each candidates microphone will be muted when his opponent gives his initial answer. And a lot has happened since we last saw Mr. Trump and Mr. Biden clash on stage. The President got coronavirus, the second debate was canceled and we have seen this resurgence in coronavirus across this country.
We're joined now by Anderson Cooper. And Anderson, that really is the bottom line here. When you look at so many crucial states in this country, the pandemic continues to be front and center.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Yes. Both men obviously have very different approaches, Erin. The White House says as the President Trump tested negative for COVID-19. A few hours ago, the former Vice President tested negative as well, but the candidates will stay socially distanced. Here's the setup on stage.
Viewers are going to see the President to the left standing at a podium with more than 12 feet between him and former Vice President Biden will be positioned to the right during the 90-minute debate. Plexiglass dividers had been installed between the candidates for additional protection. They were removed however just a little while ago. Debates commission said both campaigns agreed to take them down after
the candidates tested negative. Tonight's moderator, Kristen Welker of NBC will keep her distance from the candidates sitting more than 16 feet away.
Turning to the debate format, we're told that President Trump will get the first question tonight. That's when we'll see how the new microphone rule works. At the start of every new topic, each candidate will get two minutes of uninterrupted time to answer while his opponent's microphone is muted. These are the topics that will be addressed tonight; fighting COVID-19, American families, and race in America as well as climate change, and national security and leadership.
We're going to cover this momentous night as only CNN can with Daniel Dale, fact checking both candidates, CNN's Gary Tuchman is with a group of undecided voters in North Carolina will be watching the debate. And David Chalian will have the glimpse of who won from the CNN instant poll.
Erin, a lot ahead tonight.
BURNETT: So much ahead and I want to begin with our correspondents who are covering the candidates and this crucial debate. So first to Jim Acosta in the debate hall. Jim, what are you learning right now?
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson and Erin, as we were seeing earlier today, the debate commission was making some arrangements to protect these two candidates from the coronavirus stating that there will be a distance 12 feet apart and having plexiglass dividers on the stage for this upcoming debate.
And we learned suddenly this afternoon, just a short while ago that these plexiglass dividers were removed after both campaigns along with the debate commission consulted with Dr. Anthony Fauci. Yes, Dr. Anthony Fauci, he looms over everything in this pandemic to determine those plexiglass dividers were not necessary as both President Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden tested negative for the coronavirus.
The dividers were deemed not necessary at this point. So this goes to show you, Erin, how these things can change, details can change right up to the last minute of a debate.
The other thing we want to mention, Erin, is that inside the debate hall, you can take a look at some of the seating in the audience and how some of those seats in the audience are right next to one another. They are jammed right next to one another. But in those seats, we're starting to see what look like markers for individual people to be seated so they're not on top of one another.
Obviously, if everybody was sitting right next to one another, you could have the potential for spread of the coronavirus. But I should note, Erin, I have this wristband on, everybody who comes into this hall has a wristband on, that means you've tested negative for the coronavirus. They have temperature checks as you walk into this debate hall to make sure you're not running a fever and so on.
So they're taking lots of precautions to make sure this is a safe night for both candidates. But the headline this evening and it's fascinating those dividers were removed after consulting with none other than Dr. Anthony Fauci, Erin.
BURNETT: Yes, an important detail and, of course, Joe Biden has been putting his test results out every day, so it isn't every single day we've heard that he has been negative.
[19:05:05]
Let's go to Arlette Saenz now talking of Joe Biden. So Arlette, you do have some new information about - we haven't seen him in a few days. He has been in debate prep.
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: That's right, Erin. Joe Biden has spent the past three days off the campaign trail gearing up for this debate, that included holding mock debates where they ran through scenarios where the President could continue through with his interruptions even if that might not be heard by voters over the television.
Now, the former Vice President is also expecting the President to attack his family bringing up personal issues. And ultimately, that's a strategy that Biden's advisors believe will backfire on President Trump. I spoke to one of Biden's allies who said that he doesn't expect that Biden will take the bait and try to turn the tables on the President and his family.
But instead, Biden's advisors say that the former Vice President will keep his focus on American families and the issues that are top of mind to them, including the coronavirus pandemic and the economy. And that push can be seen in the guests that Biden is bringing to this debate tonight.
Tonight, he has invited Zweli and Leonardo Williams of Durham, North Carolina. Small business owners who have been impacted by the coronavirus pandemic. Those are the very types of voters that Biden is trying to speak to tonight.
BURNETT: All right. Arlette, thank you. And I want to go to Jeff Zeleny now. So Jeff, you've been talking to your sources, this always has come down to who are they talking to, are they trying to win people over or are they trying to motivate their base for turnout. So who are they targeting tonight?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORREPONDENT: I mean, Erin, the audience's are key tonight. But for all of the campaigns focus on suburban women, which have been very key in this election. Both campaigns tonight are also focusing on college educated men and this is why, talking to advisors from both campaigns, I am told that President Trump tonight is going to try and make the case that Joe Biden and the Democratic Party will raise your taxes.
What he will not say most likely is that that will only take effect for households making more than $400,000. But Joe Biden also focusing on college educated men. They believe that some of those men whose wives have already turned against the President are still up in the air here. So I'm told the former vice president will drive home the point that his tax plan would only raise taxes for, again, households making over $400,000.
They believe college educated men in the suburbs as well are key in the closing days of this campaign. The President, of course, trying to slow the erosion that they've seen among those suburban women. Biden, of course, trying to get them. So for all the focus on suburban women and they are key tonight, the men are also an audience, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much and it just shows you how they're really trying to slice and dice this now to these as small as you can make a group so crucial for the win here.
So let me just ask you, Michael Smerconish, how much here is at stake for Donald Trump? He has a big night, he has to make up for last debate, totally different performances. Everyone around him has told him he has to put in different performance, is he going to be able to do it?
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN HOST, SMERCONISH: Everything is at stake. Tonight requires no hype. Some of us have been at this for more than a year, close to a year and a half, getting ready for a night like tonight.
And what's truly unprecedented, Erin, is that more than 40 million Americans have already voted. So there couldn't be more of a definition of crunch time for the President. Here's how he's losing, he's losing because heretofore this has been a referendum election and he is losing a referendum on Donald Trump.
He needs it to be a choice election and in order for that to happen tonight, he needs to draw some difference between himself and Vice President Biden.
BURNETT: Nia.
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: And to do that he's got to have a vision for the country, something he hasn't been able to articulate so far. You flashback to 2016, he did have a vision and it connected with a wide swath of voters, particularly white voters of all socio economic classes.
And so he's got to figure out a way to do that, focus, focus, focus in a way that he hasn't been able to and try to turn this thing around. It's at the 11th hour, it's a 90-minute debate and so far if you look at his behavior, he hasn't been able to pivot even though his advisors want him to do that.
I think for Biden, play it safe. He puts in sort of a B plus performance, a B minus performance even he'll probably do well. And I think mainly, he also has to do what Trump has to do, which is to articulate a vision for the country, something he wasn't able to do last go round because of those interruptions. MAGGIE HABERMAN, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: I
think that's right. I think that it raised a really important point, which is that Biden actually didn't have a great debate last time. Donald Trump had a much worse debate. Donald Trump interrupted him repeatedly, could not let the subject be about anything other than himself.
I have to say, Erin, just as having covered this president for a long time, I have a hard time seeing a very new version of Donald Trump showing up on this stage.
[19:10:03]
We did see in 2016 that he was able in his third debate with Hillary Clinton to affect a different - we hate using the word tone in this context, but there was a different tone.
BURNETT: Yes.
HABERMAN: He was able to make his points without talking over her, without constantly seeming too hostile. If he's not been able to do that with Biden, then the big question is does he walk on stage and basically lose his temper because he is frustrated that the polls show him losing. Now, some advisors say he's in a much better state of mind the last two days, but he seems to be up and down in his moods, and up and down on how he wants to go with this.
BURNETT: And Michael, they keep ...
SMERCONISH: Can he go on offense. The issue is can he go on offense without being offensive. And frankly, I don't know what kind of a debate Joe Biden had in the last debate, because Donald Trump never let him speak. If Donald Trump really believes that Joe Biden is not up to the task, then he ought to move aside and give him the space to get himself in trouble.
HENDERSON: I think the issue for him is, is he going to be distracted by the shiny objects that he wants the media to also be distracted by and that is Hunter Biden. It seems like that is the main point of this debate for Donald Trump. And in fact, the last couple of days of what he's been doing is to focus on hunter Biden, put this into the mainstream of American viewers, 80 million or so will be watching.
So if that's what he's going to be distracted by, that's not great, because it doesn't go to his vision for the country. And also Hunter Biden is not running for president.
HABERMAN: And it's not what people care about right now, Erin.
HENDERSON: Right.
HABERMAN: We're in the middle of a pandemic, we're in the middle of a recession. We are in the middle of incidents issues, circumstances that impact people much more than anything that the President is trying to do to muddy up the waters and to try to drive Joe Biden's negatives up. To Nia's point, this has not been directly connected, any of what he's
trying to talk about to Joe Biden himself. But the President prefers to talk about something other than the issue in front of him, which is how he is going to take the country forward. And I do think he is going to be distracted talking about this.
One other point on that front, in the last debate when he started talking about Hunter Biden, he didn't really talk about business deals or issues of foreign interactions or engagements. He talked about Hunter Biden's drug addiction and that did not play well with a lot of people who were watching.
There are many people in this country who either themselves or have a family member who have suffered addiction. And that comes off as incredibly, incredibly condescending.
BURNETT: Yes. We'll see if it does it differently tonight. All right. All of you stay with me as we count down to tonight's debate in Nashville. We're going to look at where the candidates stand right now on that crucial race for 270 electoral votes. And up to the minute numbers on early voting 1910 [00:02:40] more than 40 million people shattering records.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:16:34]
COOPER: And we are back with our coverage of the final presidential debate of 2020. It is the candidates last best chance to influence the important race for 270 electoral votes. John King is at the magic wall with more on that. John.
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, you have to say advantage Biden and significantly so as we head into the final debate and essentially the final 10 days, we're 12 days out, but 10 days really the campaign left after this. We right now have the electoral college outlook the path to 270, 290 for Joe Biden, the deep blue solid Biden, the light blue lean Biden, same dark red solid Trump, lean red look at that Texas leaning red right now that tells you about the Presidents problem. Lean Trump, 294 Joe Biden to 163 for the President, everybody knows it takes 270 to win.
So if nothing changed, if Joe Biden comes out of this debate and nothing on this map change. He's the next President of the United States. What's different on this map? Number one, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin, the three states that made Donald Trump president, the blue wall he cracked and flipped red. We lean them all for Joe Biden heading into this debate.
All these toss up states, Iowa, Ohio, North Carolina, Georgia, Florida, all carried by President Trump last time. So the map is very different. The President is on defense. But, of course, he was losing heading into the last debate last time. What if the President turns in a strong debate tonight? What if he makes the case his advisors hope? Joe Biden will raise your taxes, you don't want a Democratic economic plan. Well, if the President comes out of this debate strong tonight, the
Biden campaign might go into protect mode. Let's say the President has a strong debate and people come out thinking, Iowa is going to stay Republican, Ohio, North Carolina, Georgia, Florida, if they start trending the President's way, then Biden goes into protect mode in the final days, which is protect those three; Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania.
Because you can imagine a scenario even with, Anderson, if the President comes out strong tonight that he would get Arizona back as well, long a Republican state. It's trending toward the Democrats, but you could see this scenario play out and if all that happened, you'd have 279-259. The President then would be back in play and it would come down to these big industrial battlegrounds or some combination if the President could somehow get Nevada and New Hampshire. But the Trump campaign would agree, this is where the fight would be if he can come out strong tonight and flip the toss up states his way.
But let's try another scenario, coming into this debate, Joe Biden is in command of this race and you see that when you look, number one, at a number of things, but let's look number one at the battleground states. Imagine if Joe Biden has a strong debate tonight. Even if he breaks even with President Trump and nothing changes.
Well, if nothing changes, Joe Biden goes into this final debate ahead in Michigan, ahead in Wisconsin, ahead in Pennsylvania and ahead in these other states as well. A little bit in Arizona, maybe a tiny bit in Iowa, you can call that a tie if you want. Call that Georgia tie but at least Joe Biden is in play in a state that hasn't gone red since Bill Clinton, a long time ago.
Florida, slight advantage Biden right now. President Trump can't win without Florida. Look at all the menu options Joe Biden has to get not only to 270, but maybe even to try to build to 300. The President has to change this and change it dramatically. One of the challenges for the President, Anderson, is you look at this right now, TV ad spending.
The Biden campaign has more money, there's a lot of super PAC money coming and a lot of money. But even there the Democrats have an advantage. This is just the Biden campaign for the last two weeks, $52 million in TV ad spending in Florida, North Carolina, Arizona, Pennsylvania.
Look at that, Texas is in the top five for Joe Biden, making a play to try to bring Texas his way. The President spending much less money, $20 million less. That's a lot of money for the final week. Florida, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Michigan and Arizona, what's common here. The President trying to get back all states he won last time.
So when you look at the map right now into this debate, you have to say advantage Biden.
[19:20:00]
Democrats, of course, haunted by 2016 and they know the President was losing them, but this is a different map Anderson just without a doubt, especially Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, unless the President can have a strong economic debate tonight, start to bring those back his way. You have to say heading in it's advantage Biden. Biden's biggest goal tonight, keep things just the way they are.
COOPER: I will be checking with you throughout the night. President Trump had an opportunity to try to reset his campaign tonight. It's not clear if he'll change his strategy after his hyper aggressive performance in the first debate. Let's go to Abby Phillip. Abby, there are new rules tonight but the animosity we saw certainly in that first debate is still there.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Oh, absolutely. And the stakes are even higher now tonight with less than two weeks before the election. After the last debate, voters were turned off by a noxious combination of constant interruptions and biting personal attacks. But with President Trump teeing up new attacks on Joe Biden's family, it's very possible we could see something very similar tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS HOST: Mr. President, can you let him finish, sir?
JOE BIDEN (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He doesn't know how to do that. He has ...
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You'd be surprised.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP(voice over): They say politics ain't beanbag. But even by that standard, the first faceoff between President Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden was a slugfest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: Will you shut up, man?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP(voice over): A 90-minute grudge match with dozens of moments like this?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: You should go out and vote. You are in voting now, vote and let your senators know how strongly you feel.
TRUMP: Are you going to pack the court?
BIDEN: Because the question is ...
TRUMP: ... put a lot of new Supreme Court justices, radical left ... BIDEN: Will you shut up, man?
TRUMP: Listen, who is on your list, Joe? Who's on your list?
BIDEN: This is ...
WALLACE: Gentleman, I think ...
BIDEN: This is so unpresidential.
TRUMP: He is going to pack the court.
BIDEN: They can in fact take care of it if he'd just stay out of the way. Look here ...
TRUMP: Oh, really? Oh, really?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP(voice over): And the moderator struggling to keep it under control.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: You have never in these four years come up with a plan, a comprehensive plan to replace Obamacare.
TRUMP: Yes, I have. Of course, I have.
WALLACE: Well, I'll give you - when I finish I'm going to give you an opportunity ...
TRUMP: I got rid of the individual mandate - excuse me, I got rid of the individual mandate.
Well, you didn't do very well in Swine Flu. H1N1. You were a disaster. Your own chief of staff said you were a disaster.
BIDEN: Fourteen thousand people died, not 200,000. There was no economic recession.
TRUMP: A very ...
WALLACE: Sir, you made a ...
TRUMP: ... a far less lethal disease.
BIDEN: There was no (inaudible) ...
WALLACE: You made a point. Let him answer.
BIDEN: And there was no one - no, we didn't shut down the economy.
(Inaudible) ...
TRUMP: He made a statement about the military, (inaudible) ... Well, first of all, I guess I'm debating you, not him. But that's OK,
I'm not surprised.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP(voice over): Tonight, Biden and Trump will meet again on the debate stage with new rules designed to keep order. But no mute button is likely to stop these kinds of personal attacks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: I'm going to make sure ...
TRUMP: You graduated last in your class not first in your class.
BIDEN: You're the worst president America has ever had.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP(voice over): Trump interrupting Biden talking about his late son Beau Biden with this attack.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: And I resent white Joe ...
TRUMP: Are you talking about Hunter? Are you talking about Hunter?
BIDEN: I'm talking of my son, Beau Biden. You're talking about (inaudible) ...
TRUMP: I don't know Beau. I know Hunter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP(voice over): Biden resorting to language unheard of on a presidential debate stage.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: Folks, do you have any idea what this clown is doing?
TRUMP: And under that plan, you're going to socialize, they call it (inaudible) ...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP(voice over): A historically vicious presidential debate in the middle of a global pandemic and the coronavirus may already have been literally hanging in the air.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: He could be speaking 200-feet away from and he shows up with the biggest mask I've ever seen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP(voice over): Just two days later, President Trump and First Lady Melania Trump testing positive. Trump spending days in the hospital. The debate commission now scrambling to change course on tone and health precautions.
First, plans to convert the second debate to a virtual format were scrapped after Trump objected. Now, for tonight's debate, a mute button. And this time anyone not wearing a mask inside the hall will be ejected.
For President Trump last month's debate went over like a lead balloon with some swing voters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Contentious.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Embarrassing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Childish.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Train wreck.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Trump barely has control issues and he couldn't stop his anger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP(voice over): Tonight, a final chance for the two candidates to make an impression.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: There's an opportunity here for each candidate to make a closing statement. It's going to be hard because of all of the angry named calling going on and how it will descend to such a low road. But it is the last time you're going to get this sort of millions of people watching and hearing your act, so they still matter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIP: The changes announced by the debate commission this two- minute period where one of the candidates will be muted while the other is giving their initial answer. It's designed to make this debate more substantive, so people can actually hear what is going on. And with millions of people voting now and million of people tuning in, it'll really matter whether or not they're able to get something out of it. But of course, it will be up to Biden and President Trump to truly set the tone tonight.
COOPER: Yes. Abby, appreciate it. Thanks very much. Let's go to our team who are standing by who are going to be with us
all evening long. David Axelrod, I mean, it seems like both men have something that they could try to improve upon from the last debate, certainly President Trump.
[19:25:05]
I mean, if he looks at all the focus groups, the reaction to the last debate I guess he would try to be less obnoxious and aggressive and interrupting. And Vice President Biden was thrown off repeatedly by the President interrupting and kind of losing his train of thought, whenever the President would interrupt.
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. No, exactly. Yes. If the President were sitting down, reading focus groups, that's what he would do. The question is, does he do that? I mean, he does have to change the trajectory of this race in this debate. He did it last time, but he sent it in the wrong trajectory with his behavior. And the question is can he correct that, can he control that here.
For Joe Biden, he can't chase the rabbit down the hole. He can't let Trump throw him off his game. He scored when he was talking to America in that debate. When he turned to the camera and talked to people about their lives and their problems and his response to them, he did very, very well. When he got thrown off, he did not.
And I'm sure that's a lot of what they've been working on in the last few days.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: But I think the question that I really have here is about the President's behavior. Because if you look over the last few days, what is the President talking about? He's been angry. He's mad at the format. He's mad at the moderator. He's mad at 60 Minutes and Lesley Stahl. He's mad at everything.
And if he walks into that debate hall and he's still angry, you're going to see the same Donald Trump. And I've spent four years listening to people say, Donald Trump is going to pivot, he's going to be different. He is not going to be different. Maybe he'll hold it in for the first answer, maybe even the second answer, but if I were a wagering person, I'd put a lot of money on the fact that he's not going to be able to go 90 minutes without reverting to form and that will not sit well.
COOPER: Van, I mean, they are muting mics. I don't know - again ...
BORGER: Yes, good luck.
COOPER: ... that doesn't mean the candidate is going to be muted.
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: The moderator is going to be the most envied person in America that have the power to mute Donald Trump for an hour and a half. That's a good thing. Listen, this is the big deal. For those of us who have been watching this stuff and the details of it, the reality is the next time this is the biggest audience these guys have. The next time these guys have a big audience, one of them is going to
be giving concession speech, the other is going to be giving a victory speech. That's how close we are to the end of this thing. And tonight, you got to get your base shored up and fired up and working moms need a champion tonight.
When you're talking to people in the real world, they're not talking about all of these shenanigans. They got kids that can't go to school, they can't do sports, they can't go to daycare, they can't go to work. They're getting crushed.
Donald Trump has already said he has no regrets looking back and no health care plan looking forward. Which means you've got a great opportunity, if you're Biden, to say I have an answer for you. Now, the trick for Biden is just not to get - sound like Captain Quarantine, though he's got to look like somebody who's going to open the economy up but do it safely and responsibly whereas Trump wants to open it up irresponsibly.
But there are people out there hurting and if Biden focuses on that, he's going to have a great night. Ignore Donald Trump, focus on the people.
COOPER: Senator?
RICK SANTORUM, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. So I what I think is going to happen, Anderson, if you remember the last debate, we were together, I said that Trump would come out and be very, very aggressive. I don't think he's going to do that this time. If you just look at his comment the other day where he was saying, I'm going to win this race. Now, I wouldn't have said that three weeks ago. That's what he said.
And the reason he wouldn't have said that three weeks ago, it was shortly after the debate and he saw just like everybody else that he cratered. I mean, you talk to people in all of the swing states and they say the race got away from me three weeks ago and - but it is coming back ...
BORGBER: How?
SANTORUM: ... and I think there is enthusiasm. I can tell you, I mean, I talked to conservatives, there's a lot of enthusiasm, races are closing, for statehouse, state Senate, Congress in a lot of these swing states and there's a momentum out there that Trump feels.
Now he may be angry and I get that, but I'm telling you, he thinks he is on - the momentum is on his side and I think he's going to be very positive tonight.
JONES: Senator, it would be great if - listen, if he would just be quiet and let Biden talk, I think it's actually a ...
SANTORUM: I think you're going to see more of that.
JONES: ... look, it's a better strategy for Trump. In other words ... SANTORUM: It is.
JONES: ... Trump's worst enemy is Trump.
SANTORUM: No.
JONES: If Trump would just shut up and let Biden talk, then he could actually make his own point and he's a much better performer than Biden, but the reality is what he's going to do he's going to talk about Hunter Biden, he's going to talk about a bunch of stuff nobody cares about and Biden is going to talk about the real stuff.
SANTORUM: That's a very key point in this and this is up to the moderator is when they're going to bring up the foreign policy part. Because to me, that's the time he's going to bring up Joe Biden selling his office to foreign folks. And if she decides we're going to bring this up first, I think that's bad for Trump, because he's going to level that charge when they talk about that subject. If he waits til the end, then I think Trump may actually be benefited by that by not actually going there and sort of setting the tone for the debate too early.
[19:30:07]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Do you think he'll wait -- you think he'll wait for that to bring up --
SANTORUM: I think he will. I think he will.
COOPER: David?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: No, I don't think he will.
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't know. But let me tell you this, if I were Joe Biden, I would say go ahead and take the mute off, because I don't think Donald Trump is helped by what he did in the last debate. The mute is maybe beneficial to him to keep him from being Donald Trump.
And so, by the way, Van, I was -- I'm relieved to hear that you think one of these candidates is going to give a concession speech. I'm not sure that the president will ever give a concession speech. But go ahead.
BORGER: Can I just say this?
COOPER: Yeah, Gloria, go ahead.
BORGER: I think that the public would benefit, and we would all benefit from hearing some more on the issues tonight, which we didn't hear in the first debate, obviously. And for example, in the "60 Minutes" interview, the president of the United States said that he hopes the Supreme Court overturns Obamacare.
Well, I guarantee you that that is something that either we'll be asked about, or that Joe Biden is going to raise, and then the president will have to talk about his plan for health care in the middle of a pandemic for over 200,000 people have died.
COOPER: Yeah, but there is no plan, and he's refused to talk about whatever he says there is a plan.
BORGER: That's right.
COOPER: Much more ahead on tonight's debate and an unanswered question about the coronavirus pandemic. We have new details on President Trump's recovery from COVID-19, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:35:23]
BURNETT: It is debate night in America. And President Trump will be taking the stage you see on your screen in about 90 minutes from now, as a recovering COVID-19 patient.
So I want to go back to Jim Acosta in the debate hall.
And, Jim, there are a lot of questions about the president's illness that could come up tonight, right? I mean, a lot of things that we have never been told, even now. What are you learning?
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right. And perhaps Joe Biden will ask some of those questions. We'll wait and see.
But in the meantime, one of the biggest developments heading into tonight's debate is that these plexiglass dividers were removed by the debate commission after the commission consulted with Dr. Anthony Fauci, who spoke with a physician associated with the debate commission earlier this afternoon. The dividers deemed not necessary because both candidates have tested negative for the coronavirus.
But it's yet another example of why this virus hangs over everything, even a debate, in our lives now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA (voice-over): President Trump landed in Nashville for his final debate with Joe Biden, sounding more obsessed with perhaps his biggest election obstacle standing in his way of a second term, the coronavirus.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: All you hear is COVID, COVID, COVID, COVID, COVID, COVID, COVID, COVID, COVID, COVID.
ACOSTA: Even after his bout with COVID-19, there are constant reminders, White House officials say the president tested negative for the virus en route to the debate hall. Biden is all but certain to challenge Mr. Trump's efforts to downplay the pandemic.
TRUMP: That pandemic is rounding the corner. The vaccine will end the pandemic. But it's ending any way. I look fine, don't I?
ACOSTA: CNN has learned, Mr. Trump spoke with Dr. Anthony Fauci during his recovery. Advisers had hoped the president would use his battle as a campaign reset. But instead he's dug in, blaming Fauci, even after relying on his advice.
TRUMP: Fauci is a disaster.
People are tired of hearing Fauci and all these idiots.
ACOSTA: It's been just 17 days since the president returned to the White House after being hospitalized, ripping off his mask and proclaiming himself cured.
TRUMP: And now, they call them therapeutic, but to me, it wasn't therapeutic. It just made me better, okay? I call that a cure.
ACOSTA: The next four days, president Trump remained out of sight, doing friendly interviews by phone.
TRUMP: I will say this, absentee is okay, because absentee ballots -- excuse me.
ACOSTA: The president was given a mix of treatments at Walter Reed, including an experimental antibody therapy cocktail and a five-day course of remdesivir. He also received steroid dexamethasone after his oxygen level dipped, along with several other medications.
TRUMP: I woke up and I felt good. I said, get me out of here. Boom, superman.
ACOSTA: With an all clear from his doctor, Sean Conley, Mr. Trump hit the trail, while the president always travels with the physician from the White House medical unit, Conley personally accompanied the president for his first rally after his diagnosis, where he said this --
TRUMP: I'll kiss everyone in that audience. I'll kiss the guys and the beautiful women and everybody. I'll just give you a big fat kiss.
ACOSTA: Still, much of the president's illness remains a mystery, with Mr. Trump and his doctors repeatedly dodging request for more details.
SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, NBC NEWS ANCHOR: Did the doctors say they saw pneumonia on your lungs?
TRUMP: No, but they said the lungs are, you know, a little bit different, a little bit -- perhaps infected.
GUTHRIE: Infected with?
TRUMP: I don't know. I mean, I didn't do too much asking.
ACOSTA: The president also won't divulge when he last tested negative for the virus, prior to his first debate with Biden. TRUMP: Is that very important to you? You seem to be so intent. But
if it's so important to you, why is it so important to you?
ACOSTA: Ahead of tonight's debate, Mr. Trump has now attended 15 in- person events and rallies, plus two town halls, three fund-raisers and one church service since his diagnosis. Today was First Lady Melania Trump's first appearance after she backed out of a rally earlier this week due to a persistent cough. The president has been quick to show off his recovered White House staff.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We can share a microphone now.
TRUMP: She just recovered from COVID.
ACOSTA: But some advisers aren't so pleased.
CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), FORMER NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR: I was led to believe that, you know, all the people I was interacting with at the White House had been tested. And it gave you a false sense of security, and it was a mistake.
ACOSTA: Former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie who tested positive after helping with President Trump's debate prep sessions is now encouraging Americans to wear a mask, writing in an op-ed Wednesday, wear it or you may regret it, as I did.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA: And the president's campaign advisers are planning as many as five rallies between now and Election Day, which means tonight's debate are with all of the precautions that are being taken may, in fact, be the safest event for the president over the next 11 or 12 days -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Absolutely. Thank you very much, Jim.
[19:40:01]
And since President Trump had coronavirus, we have now seen that dreaded fall wave of coronavirus emerge. It's growing worse by the day. You've got record hospitalizations in some states and deaths rising.
John King has more on the pandemic.
And what you have seen so far, Jim, of its impact on this presidential race.
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Erin, when the president says we're rounding the corner, he's simply not telling the truth. The numbers don't lie, as you know. We are heading up toward another peak.
Let's go through it. We'll go through number by number.
This map just tells you all you need to know. Red and orange are bad. You see a lot of red and orange. That means cases reporting more new COVID infections now compared to a week ago. New Mexico, bright red. More than 50 percent, more cases this week compared to last week. New Mexico is in crisis right now. But 30 other states reporting more new COVID infections this week than last week. That is not running the turn, that is heading up the hill yet again, 18 states holding steady.
Only one, only one of the 50 states, Hawaii, reporting fewer cases right now than a week ago. The country is trending in the wrong direction.
If you look at the case line, remember, we've been through this for eight months. We went up the hill in March. We came down, and the president said here it would disappear in April. It didn't. The vice president said it would be behind us by Memorial Day. Not true. The president said at the peak of the summer surge in late July, the virus will disappear.
Look what has happened since. We came down some but only to a baseline of about 40,000. Now we are heading back up with 60,000 new infections a day. The president said in July it would disappear. Since then, more than half of the cases in the United States. 53 percent of the cases since the president said that,.36 percent of the deaths in the United States since the president said in July.
It wasn't the first time, but at the peak of the summer surge, he said it would disappear. We're going back up. We're close to the peak of the summer surge, and everybody says we're going higher.
Where are we right now? This trend line, it's a tough line to use, this is the trend line of American deaths from the coronavirus. And we went way up early on. It was new. The hospitals were overwhelmed.
You do see, because of new treatments and because the vulnerable are protecting themselves, this has been down a little bit. But look in recent days, 1,000 American deaths in the last couple of deaths. That trend line starting to inch back up. You see the curve right there.
This is the map of a crisis, plain and simple, the deeper the blue, the higher the positivity rate. Meaning, more new infections today because people are testing positive. And the more people who test positive, the more risk of spread.
Look at this, 55 percent in Iowa, 40 percent Wisconsin, 35 percent in South Dakota, 31 percent in Wyoming, 33 percent Idaho, Nevada in double digits, Kansas in double digits. This is more infections today, and it means more tomorrow, plain and simple. We have not rounded the corner.
Now, the ten states right now per capita reporting the most new COVID cases, here there are. a lot of them are smaller case. So, the case numbers might be trailing a bit, but these are the ten states with the most new cases per capital right now. Who do they have in common? They all voted for president Trump in 2016.
All but one of them have Republican governors. Wisconsin has a Democratic governor. It is going up right now.
I don't like to mention that. We're all Americans going through this together, but watching the debate tonight, the president likes to make the point, the blue states are the problem. The blue states he says are staying closed to hurt him, to hurt the economy and to hurt him.
Well, if that comes up, we should look at this, look at this trend. Yes, the blue states, California, Washington state, New York in the Northeast did go up the hill first. They have come down, stayed down, back up a little bit in the summer surge. Everyone is going up right now.
Look at the red states, look at the red states. These are states with Republican governors. They were down at first. They drove the summer surge. Look at high this went.
It did come down some. But right now, in America, states with Republican governors have a bigger problem than states with Democratic governors.
One thing, Erin, you might hear tonight, he president will say, everyone is going through this. The world is going through this. He's right, the world is going through this.
In Europe at the moment, actually, has more cases per capita, that's the yellow line, more cases per capita than the United States. The United States is the green line.
But this is what scares public health experts. If you look at the history, Europe went up the hill first, right, Europe went up the hill before the United States. Then it did a remarkable job of flattening the curve, look at that.
And now as we go back up, Europe is shooting up. New restrictions in Ireland, new restrictions in Germany, new restrictions in France, new restrictions really across the continent as they see this.
The worry of public health experts here, Erin, especially because the president thinks we don't need to do anything, we're rounding the corner, just wait for a vaccine, is the United States went up that curve behind Europe, stayed higher than Europe the entire thing, now starting to go back up again.
If Europe is going up like that, what is ahead for us? Is it going to be when you look at the cases as we go up here, are we going to hit the summer surge and keep going? That's the worry, Erin, as we get closer to the election. We have not rounded the corner. We're in a mess.
BURNETT: All right, John, thank you very much. Sobering but incredible thorough analysis.
I'm joined by our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, and our medical analyst, Dr. Jonathan Reiner.
So, Sanjay, let me start with you, in terms of this room that we're going to see tonight and this will be front and center, not just in terms of the substance and the policy, but physically, right?
[19:45:06]
We know that both President Trump and Joe Biden tested negative today.
A plexiglass barrier that was going to be between them has been removed, right? But yet, we're going to see the coronavirus in that room, right? There are going to be 12'8" apart. The moderator 16 feet apart, everyone wearing masks, people with wrist bands because they were tested.
But all of that puts the coronavirus in this debate. Does it mean, though, that the virus isn't in the room?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: No, it doesn't. And I think this is a fundamental point. I mean, all those protections you mentioned, that's good. Good for them that they're doing that stuff.
But I think to your point, we're still talking about gathering a large group of people indoors, in the middle of a pandemic. Two people who would be considered vulnerable by virtue of their edge will be unmasked, speaking loudly.
Again, it's good that they're tested. But Erin, they're trying to do the best they can, but this is a bad idea. I mean, somebody has to say that. Call it for what it is.
We're still in the middle of a pandemic. And everything that we've heard would suggest that you don't gather a large group of people indoors in a situation like this.
BURNETT: Yeah, I mean, you know, as Chris Christie said, it was a serious failure to go maskless at the White House, you know? And he almost paid for it with his life.
You know, Reiner, President Trump said in an interview this week, probably more of what we will hear tonight, not much he could have done differently on coronavirus, rounding the corner, reopen. Is that a winning argument to make in the context of what we just saw with John King? The surge in cases, the surge in hospitalizations, the red Republican states right now leading on those counts?
JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: No, that's capitulation. And I don't think capitulation is a winning strategy. We have lived with this pandemic now for about 270 days. And the toll has been awful.
And if you look on average, we're losing basically five fully loaded 737s every single day during this pandemic. And all the president can say, if he could do things over again, there's not much he would do.
Look, if your -- if you fail a test, and then you go through your performance, and at the end, you say there's not much I would do differently, what you're really saying is that you've been overmatched by that test. And that's what the president is saying. I think if you ask the people that work for him, if you ask Dr. Birx,
and Dr. Fauci, and Dr. Redfield, what they would go back and do if they could do it differently, they would get testing online quicker, they would shut down sooner, they would keep states shutdown longer, there's a lot they can do.
But, you know, we're making the same mistakes over and over again. When you make mistakes over and over again, they cease to become mistakes, they become decisions. And the president has doubled down on his decisions and he has to live with that.
BURNETT: And, Sanjay, he has things to answer for tonight, right? This could come up on that debate stage. A new Columbia University study, which says 130,000 to 210,000 coronavirus deaths could have been prevented in this country with earlier policy interventions and more robust federal coordination and leadership.
Now, I will grant you that is a huge range, OK? Right? There's a lot of uncertainty in those numbers. I just want to point out that 210,000 deaths is 94 percent of the people who have died in this country would not be dead. It is a pretty stunning thing to address for this president.
GUPTA: This was a thorough analysis, Erin. They looked at these countries, and they basically said if we had implemented the policies in X country, what would that have translated to in the United States? So South Korea, for example, we bring it up because patients were diagnosed on the same day, the first patients in the United States and South Korea, 2,799, that number represents the number of people that would have died in the United States if we adopted South Korea's policy. Not the number of people who would have been saved.
So, 220,000 versus 2,000 is essentially what they're saying. I mean, that's staggering, Erin. Japan, 4,315. Australia. You see the numbers there.
By the way, South Korea initially, they didn't shut down. They had robust testing. They had kiosk testing. They did really, really robust tracing. It made a difference. They had to do it early and it made a huge difference.
By the way, some of those same things, those same strategies that worked in the other countries, they can still make a difference in this country. This isn't about the rear-view mirror. We're, by no means, through this yet.
So, hopefully, we look at that and say it's horrifying, but also, you know, inspiring us to actually do more than we're doing.
BURNETT: And putting the onus on Trump and Biden tonight to say what could be done, especially for Biden specifically right now, to turn this around.
Thank you so very much.
And as we get ready for those questions at that debate stage, there are some minds, of course, that can't be changed tonight -- not just because they're set in their ways, but because tens of millions in this country have already actually cast their ballots.
[19:50:14]
We're going to break down those huge voting numbers in some crucial battlegrounds next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: And we are getting closer to the finalist debate between President Trump and former Vice President Biden, with the election now less than two weeks away.
But tens of millions of Americans have already cast their votes.
Pamela Brown is following the record-breaking early voting and everyone, Pam, wants to know about this and what it means. What are the latest numbers?
PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I'll tell you, Erin, so far more than 46 million votes have been cast in this election and this map right here, it shows you the states in the dark orange where people are casting the most ballots.
What we're learning when we look a little bit closer at these numbers, Erin, is that Democratic turnout advantage of pre-election voting is narrowing in key states. Key states like North Carolina, right here, more than 2 million votes have been cast early there. That's up from nearly 121 percent from this point in 2016.
[19:55:02]
That's according to Catalyst, a company that provides data analytics and other services to Democrats, academics and nonprofit issue advocacy organizations.
But look the party breakdown here. Democrats have an advantage over Republicans by around 32 percentage points in ballots cast early. But now, take a look at this. That margin has narrowed to just 15 points currently.
And the narrowing gap is also striking when you look at Florida. More than 3.6 million votes have been cast early in the Sunshine State and the Democratic advantage there, look at this, that's narrowed from around 21 points last week to 11 points in the most recent data.
Now, the numbers in Florida also show more Democrats are voting by mail while more Republicans are voting in person. For context here, pre-election polls show Republicans are more likely to vote in-person on election day and Democrats are more likely to vote early.
So the fact that the early voting margin between the two parties is narrowing is certainly interesting to note, but what these numbers do not tell us is who these voters cast their votes for, and how many voters will ultimately cast their votes for in this election. But one thing is clear, early voting enthusiasm is high, Erin.
BURNETT: Incredibly high.
All right. Pamela, thank you very much.
So let's get back to our team here to talk about this.
So, Nia, what do you take away from this? You know, the traditional thing was, oh, well, voting early is going to advantage Democrats. Well, Pam's numbers showing that we don't know that to be true. So when you go on to this stage in one hour, what does that mean? They know there's a whole lot of people they can't do anything about at this point.
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yeah, they've got to focus on the groups that they've got to win. People like seniors. People like independents, African-American voters. All of those demographics, Latino voters.
So I think that is what they have to do, speak directly to Americans about the problems that Americans are experience, COVID obviously. And I think if you think about what this campaign is broadly about, COVID, obviously, but it's also about character.
And so, I think for Trump that poses a bit of a problem because he's doing terribly among seniors, primarily because of character issues, I think, and also COVID. So I think that's what they have to do. We don't know what these early voters are thinking, but they've got to keep what are Americans going through in their kitchen table issues every single day.
BURNETT: So, Maggie, who does Trump target tonight?
MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Look, I think that Trump needs to take the temperature down in ways that appeals to the seniors who he has lost. I think that is going to be a real tall order, Erin. I think that he has repeatedly had opportunities since March with the coronavirus to target seniors and let them know that he was comforting them and that he was taking care of the issue and took to seriously, and instead, he scared them over and over again with these press briefings that he did.
So I think he's going to target seniors. I think he's got to target women, particularly suburban women. Although, again, I think it's a very tall order. He is losing with that group of voters by a solid amount.
Now, Republicans will say they are seeing early voting numbers that make them feel better than perhaps Democrats want them to. They suggest that their modeling shows that Republicans who do support President Trump are turning out. We just don't know who those Republicans are actually voting for. We have a pretty good guess the Democrats are backing Joe Biden.
BURNETT: That's for sure.
Go ahead, Michael.
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: The troubling thing about all the early voting is that half the states in round numbers don't permit a cure when you haven't filled it out properly. A state like my own in Pennsylvania, we've never voted absentee without cause in a presidential race before, so I'm just worried for the system that there'll be many errors made and many votes that aren't properly counted.
So treat it like a wedding invitation. Pay very close attention. Make sure you're checking all the right boxes and returning it properly.
And the issue, Erin, at the end of the night is this, are we thinking comparison for these two or is it all still about Donald Trump? The president better hope that it's a comparison and it's not a referendum.
BURNETT: So, Nia, one group I want to ask you about, Biden right now behind Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama in his margins with black and Latino voters. Obviously this could be extremely significant.
So what does that mean for what he does tonight? He's got to get those voters -- those numbers need to change, right? I mean, that's the bottom line.
HENDERSON: Yes. I think he's got to channel in some ways what we saw from Barack Obama last night. In Barack Obama essentially saying Biden might not be a perfect candidate, but he's certainly much better than Trump is on any number of issues. I think would be the argument from -- from Biden on criminal justice issues and on race just in general.
Trump is pretty much a race baiter, so I think if Biden can hit those points in simple and compassionate ways, he could do himself some good among those groups.
BURNETT: All right. All eyes on this debate. Starting in just one hour.
Thanks so much to all of you.
And our coverage of debate night in America continues right now.
(MUSIC)
COOPER: And we are just an hour away from the final debate between President Donald Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden.
