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Erin Burnett Outfront
Trump In "Bunker Mentality" In WH, Cancels Thanksgiving Plans As Biden Forges Ahead; Sen. Chris Coons (D-DE) Discusses His Take On Sen. Graham's Position On Validity Of The Election For Trump; Trump Fires Homeland Security Official Who Contradicted The President's Voter Fraud Claims; Republicans Temporarily Block Certification Of Wayne County, Michigan Election Results. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired November 17, 2020 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM. You can follow me on Twitter and Instagram @WOLFBLITZER. Tweet the show @CNNSITROOM.
"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next, the President tonight in bunker mentality just canceling his Thanksgiving plans at Mar-A-Lago. All as he sabotages any chance of a smooth transition for Joe Biden. I'm going to talk to a Republican donor who says it's time for Trump to move on.
Plus, breaking news, the Senate's most senior Republican testing positive for coronavirus, age 87, as more states are taking some of the strictest measures yet to slow the spread.
And a former NFL player who ran against Black Lives Matter flips a house seat from D to R, what does it say to Democrats? House Majority Whip Jim Clyburn is my guest. Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, sabotage. The President-elect Joe Biden forging ahead with his plans to run the country, while the current president is in a 'bunker mentality', according to a White House official. Just now canceling plans to travel to Mar-A-Lago for Thanksgiving, according to a source in the administration, staying home to do all he can to stop Biden. Blocking Biden from getting a National Security briefing again today, which forced Biden to get an update from a panel of outside experts who, of course, don't have classified information.
Trump administration also announcing today the withdrawal of more than a third of U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. When are they going to do this? Well, five days before Biden is inaugurated president. And we've learned that just before Trump fired his Defense Secretary Mark Esper by tweet right after the election, Esper has said don't do this. It's a bad idea. The conditions on the ground make it the wrong call. OK.
Trump then refusing to brief Biden's team on the single biggest domestic issue we have, coronavirus vaccines, blocking Biden's team from any information about his administration's effort to distribute vaccines. There's a process that will take most of next year at the least and must be executed by Biden. Needless to say, any mistakes on that will cost many American lives. That it will cost deep economic pain. It make this thing last longer and longer.
So why is Trump doing things that would hurt the United States of America just to spite Biden? John O'Donnell is a man who worked side by side with Trump for years and he told me this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN O'DONNELL, FMR PRESIDENT & CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER, TRUMP PLAZA HOTEL & CASINO: He's a very vengeful man and I think he is trying to make it as difficult as possible on Joe Biden, because Biden is the enemy. And along with Biden being the enemy, Donald Trump views the 78 million people who voted against him as the enemy as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Well, Trump's actions unfortunately back that analysis up at this point, because why else go against your own defense department on a matter of war and peace with troops five days before your successor is going to take over? Why else put coronavirus vaccine distribution at risk? Why else block National Security briefings?
The people that you are hurting by this are the American people and yet besides all this blocking for the 10th day since the election, the President has 'no public events'. That's what it says literally on a schedule, no public events.
Instead, he spends his days watching television, we know from those around him. And, of course, we all can see he raged tweets lies about the election being stolen from him saying he won. And what's the reaction from Republicans still, mostly silence. Refusing to push back in public in fear of the President.
Now, when they aren't in TV interviews, in front of the cameras, some of them approached the vice President-elect Kamala Harris on the Senate floor today. I used to do that in-person. Even though when they're talking publicly, they're still siding with President Trump.
Take Lindsey Graham, you can see him come up. Oh, a fist bump. So friendly, but what a farce, because it is Graham, who according to the Republican Secretary of State in Georgia is trying to interfere in that State's recount suggesting that legal votes get thrown out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRAD RAFFENSPERGER, (R) GEORGIA SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, he asked if the ballots could be matched back to the voters. And then I got the sense it implied that then you can throw those out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: All right. So Graham is the Head of the Judiciary Committee. He is from South Carolina, he's not from Georgia. Allegedly now trying to interfere in Georgia's recount and how they're counting votes and what their rules are. That is potentially illegal.
And yet today he defend his actions to CNN, seem to be at least, saying he just needed more information, verifying signatures on mail- in ballots in another state.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): I think I have every right to reach out and say how does it work and that's what it is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Graham's argument doesn't add up because the states that Graham claims he's reaching out to other than Georgia are all states Trump loss. So Georgia one of them, Nevada the other, Arizona the third.
[19:05:00]
North Carolina, Trump won it by 74,000 votes, no request there. Now, Graham denies he's doing anything improper.
But keep in mind this is the same man who just days after the election, when it was clear Trump lost said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRAHAM: If Republicans don't challenge and change the U.S. election system, they'll never be another Republican president elected again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OK. Well, you don't have to guess as to his motive. He wants to challenge the election system and change it so that Republicans can win in the future. Let's just be clear, this is the most secure election in American history, according to Trump's own Department of Homeland Security.
So save the fist bumps, Sen. Graham. I mean, that just doesn't seem to add up at all in terms of what he's saying. The reality of it is, of course, is this is somebody who has acted very differently with the last time around when Hillary Clinton won. Let's listen to how he talked.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
GRAHAM: Trump has not lost, do not concede, Mr. President, fight hard.
President Trump should not concede.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Sorry, that's what he said this time, don't concede, don't concede. Making it very clear. Yet four years ago, when Trump won the 306 Electoral Votes, the exact same number as Biden, of course, has now notched to this time around, the same Lindsey Graham was out there. Not telling Hillary Clinton not to concede, no calling Trump President-elect well before the votes were actually certified.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRAHAM: If the President-elect chooses to nominate them ...
And to the President-elect, if you're listening to what I'm listening to, here's what I would challenge President-elect Trump to do and here's what I'll ask President-elect Trump.
President-elect Trump will soon be president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: But he won't say at this time. This time it's do not concede, save the fist bump.
Jeff Zeleny is with Joe Biden in Wilmington and Jeremy Diamond is at the White House.
I want to start with you, Jeff, what is the Biden team's latest thinking on how to handle President Trump's attempts to sabotage the transition?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORREPONDENT: Erin, frankly, they're moving forward as though they have their own plan in mind here and they are, frankly, ignoring the President. At least Joe Biden himself is. Consider what they've done, A, he's been filling the senior advisors who work just steps away from the Oval Office. The Oval Office that will be Mr. Biden's in just 64 days.
They announced the hiring of a deputy chief of staff, senior advisor, counselor to the president, office of personal engagement, a general counsel, so he's moving forward in that front. Also holding briefings yesterday and the economy, today on National Security, tomorrow on healthcare, Thursday talking to governors of both parties.
So the President-elect is moving forward as though President Trump is not here, but he is still here and this is why it matters. It is still that ascertainment that the General Services Administration, that obscure agency in the Trump administration has not yet signed off on these election returns, has not yet allowed transition funding, but more importantly information to come forward.
There was a conference called late today with the top advisors, the medical advisors on the Biden coronavirus task force and they talked about the urgent need to get access to the data and the information for how this vaccine will be distributed. The words of Dr. David Kessler.
Don't forget, he was appointed to lead the FDA under George H.W. Bush, worked under Bill Clinton. He said, look, we are docs. We're not political. We want to save lives here. So the Biden transition team is moving forward. They're trying to show
themselves as a team in motion, but the reality here is that's what they're concerned about, getting access to the COVID information. Most importantly, those vaccines that as of yet the Trump administration is still blocking them from, Erin.
BURNETT: And it's really incredible and it's crucial, because the thing that matters the most for the economy for American lives is getting that vaccine out, how it's getting out. It's unacceptable that it's being blocked.
ZELENY: Right.
BURNETT: All right. So I want to go to Jeremy Diamond. He's OUTFRONT near the White House. And Jeremy, you just broke the news that the President is going to stay, doesn't want to leave the White House, going to stay, not go to Mar-A-Lago next weekend. What more are you learning?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Officials we're told today that the President had decided to pull the plug on going to Mar-A-Lago for his Thanksgiving trip. This will be the first time during his presidency that the President hasn't gone to Mar-A- Lago around the Thanksgiving holiday.
And one official told my colleague, Kate Bennett, that it's a sign of a 'bunker mentality' inside the White House and that that's where the President's head is at and, indeed, it does seem that way. You talked to people around the President, there is infighting right now among the President's advisors over the legal strategy. The President himself is getting bad news day after day as these lawsuits fail in one battleground state court after the other.
And so it's very clear that the President right now is not in a good place and he is struggling to come to grips with the reality that he has lost this presidential election. But interestingly, Erin, even as the President is tweeting these baseless conspiracy theories, refusing to publicly acknowledge that Joe Biden is the President-elect, he's also and his administration is also taking steps right now to secure his legacy and to get in some of those last minute policy moves up before he has to leave office in 64 days.
[19:10:08]
Today, for example, we saw the President move forward on that Afghanistan troop withdrawal, bringing down troop levels to 2,500 just before Inauguration Day. Of course, it's Joe Biden, the President- elect, who will be the President then and will have to deal with the fallout. Erin.
BURNETT: Right. Thank you very much. And of course, to emphasize going against the recommendation of his own Secretary of Defense.
OK. I want to go now to longtime Biden ally, Democratic ally, sorry, Democratic Senator, Chris Coons, who sits on both the Judiciary and Foreign Relations Committees. So in the capacity, you are in on the Judiciary Committee, you obviously spent a lot of time with Sen. Lindsey Graham, the Chair.
So he says that he has called elections officials in Arizona, Nevada and Georgia according to the Georgia Secretary of State, Graham implied that they should be tossing out legally cast ballots in the Presidential race. Graham has made no secret of the fact that he thinks there needs to be changes in the rules here for Republicans to win in the future. What's your reaction here?
SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): Well, Erin, that Chairman Graham is engaging in this freewheeling personal effort to try and motivate Republican statewide elected officials like the Secretary of State in Georgia to engage in behavior that taking it as characterized by the Georgia's Secretary of State would be outside the law and outside what's an appropriate action for that Secretary. That's pretty alarming.
And I think Senator Graham's got some explaining to do about why he would be taking these actions.
BURNETT: So, yes, obviously, we showed how different it was when Trump won with 360 electoral votes well before there was any formal certification. It was president-elect, president-elect, president- elect. Now, same point in the process, it's, "President Trump should not concede." "Trump has not lost." "Do not concede, Mr. President, fight hard." What happened to Lindsey Graham?
COONS: That's a question that's been asked quite a few times in recent years, frankly, Erin. And the bigger question to me is what happened to the commitment by Republicans here in the Senate to the rule of law, to one of the fundamental aspects of our democracy, which is every four years, a peaceful transition of power, after federal elections.
All of us know that this transition should be well underway. The election that was two weeks ago tonight, that was resolved 10 days ago tonight, should have led to an orderly and peaceful transition in the interest of America's public health, in the interest of our National Security and in the interest of our standing in the world.
Sen. Graham is someone who's long fought for our standing in the world. This is a moment for him to change his direction and show that he embraces that he remembers one of his core commitments from his long service, which is to democracy and orderly transitions.
BURNETT: All right. I want to ask you about something, the President has just fired just a moment ago here as we're speaking, has fired the person who is in charge of cybersecurity and infrastructure for the election. This is Chris Krebs.
Chris Krebs came out. The President has said that he's fired him. I'm going to tell you why in a moment. I want to be clear what Chris Krebs said. Chris Krebs said, was behind the statement that this is the most secure election we've had in American history and that it was secure, that these allegations are wrong.
The President is coming out tonight and saying he's firing him, because his statement was inaccurate. It was not the most secure election that in fact there were massive improprieties, dead people voting, poll watchers glitches, the same old litany of factual inaccuracies, lies. So the President has fired him, your reaction?
COONS: Chris Krebs' federal service is just the latest casualty and what has sadly been a four-year long war against the truth by President Trump. The number of times that he has spoken and tweeted and acted in ways that are just demonstrably at variance with the truth began with his fights with the media and the public and his own agencies about how big his election, excuse me, how big his inauguration day crowds were and they continue until today.
Mr. Krebs was doing his job. He was simply reporting what every relevant agency had told him, which was that these were the most secure elections in modern American history. That's something that we should be celebrating, not something that should result in his abrupt firing.
BURNETT: It's shocking. OK. It, I guess, I would say it's shocking, but not surprising. But to that point, Senator, what are you all going to do? I understand you're forging ahead, that the President-elect is picking his chief of staff and his cabinet. He's moving ahead. You're getting outside to brief him because you can't get the classified briefings.
But this kind of stuff is a problem. It's a problem and 64 days of this is a big problem. What are you guys going to do about it?
COONS: Erin, I was literally just on the Senate floor within the last hour talking to Republican colleagues, urging them to look themselves in the mirror and to think about the consequences of what's going on.
[19:15:07]
I can understand for a few days after the election results came in, giving President Trump his space to make his argument to file some legal briefings and to try and present evidence but that was 10 days ago. And we are in the middle of a pandemic that is surging out of control, where President Trump is doing nothing to address the million new cases in the last week, nothing to make sure that there's a clear handoff to the incoming administration for vaccine distribution.
And if anything is, frankly, putting our security and some of our most trusted alliances at risk by making abrupt changes in our troop deployments to countries like Afghanistan and Iraq, where our NATO allies and others have been fighting alongside us for more than 18 or 19 years. So, frankly, it's time for my Republican colleagues to step up and whether privately or publicly to say to President Trump, you've lost the election, do the right thing and move forward and for them to publicly begin to embrace this transition and make it happen.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Senator. I appreciate your time.
You see Sen. Coons obviously advises the President-elect, reacting there in real time. I'm going to go back to the White House, Jeremy Diamond. So Jeremy, the President of the United States has just fired the person in charge of election security who issued the statement saying these are the most secure elections in American history, saying he's firing him because he doesn't like what he said and that everything he said is wrong, just because Trump is saying so.
DIAMOND: Yes. The President is making very clear here, he's not even trying to tiptoe around the fact that he is firing this official because he is contradicting the President's baseless conspiracy theories that the President has been spreading around to try and legitimize his election loss, to try and vindicate himself.
The President making very clear that this election, in his view, has been rigged and has been riddled with voter fraud. And that is exactly what Christopher Krebs, the Head of the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security agency has said did not happen. He has said this was the most secure election in history. He has also swatted down the President's conspiracy theory about this Dominion voting software machine, saying that there is no evidence as the President has suggested that any of this software had deleted votes or attributed votes to another candidate, despite what the President has said here.
So this is something that Christopher Krebs and his team knew was coming. He had been very aware in the days leading up to this that he expected to likely be fired by the President of the United States. And obviously it is happening in the same fashion that we have seen with so many other officials firing via tweet.
BURNETT: It is stunning, Jeremy, that he's doing this. I mean, every single thing in here is counterfactual and to the extent that anything would have impacted this election, which he lost resoundingly, 306 Electoral College votes. It was a resounding win when Trump won it in 2016. It's a resounding win for Biden now.
Is there anyone, Jeremy, from your understanding who's even in the room with him or is he just in there doing this stuff? Just going on Twitter, fires the Defense Secretary, going on Twitter a few days later, fires the guy who's in charge of election integrity in this country. Is he just in there like crazy tweeting?
DIAMOND: Well, he's certainly still in touch with officials. I mean, there are still folks at the White House who are around him. But we've learned that he's been spending most of his mornings at the White House, inside the residence of the White House watching TV, heading to the Oval Office much later than he usually does. So he is certainly spending more time alone processing all of this.
And the other thing to point out is there are different views in the presidency or as there are so often. Right now you're at a point where Rudy Giuliani, the former New York City mayor is telling the President that he has a shot here, screaming at Trump campaign attorneys late last week and telling them that they are liars for telling the President that his legal battles here are a longshot in terms of overturning the results of the election.
And then on the other hand, you have other folks telling the President, it's time to start acknowledging reality. So there's no question that he's hearing a lot of different things right now and there are obviously still those voices encouraging the President to go deeper and deeper into this conspiracy theory territory and some of the members of the President's legal team right now are pushing that very same narrative, including Sidney Powell, an attorney who's working with the President who's pushed all kinds of crazy conspiracy theories, including stating that the CIA has been involved in altering votes in this election, which is of course not true, compelling unfounded, but clearly the President wants to go deeper into this and that's what we're seeing with this firing of Christopher Krebs as he continues to deny reality, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much. I hope none of these people ever have to spend time in places in the world where this kind of conspiracy theories actually get traction and you live in the kinds of governments that create that.
Phil Mudd joins me on the phone. So Phil, obviously, a former counterterror official and at the CIA, our analyst.
[19:20:04]
So Phil, your reaction here, the President has now gone on Twitter and fired the guy who came out, who said this is the most secure election in American history with the backing of the full United States government. The President has fired this guy, there he is, Christopher Krebs, putting out a whole bunch of lies. I don't even want to keep repeating them, but lies saying that the election was taken from him.
PHIL MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: Yes. There's a couple of reactions as personal piece of someone who served in government for a couple decades and that piece is - I mean, firing people on Twitter, I don't want to belabor this, Erin, but firing people on Twitter - remember James Comey, the FBI Director, the President couldn't fire him in-person. He sent over one of his personal assistants to do it, talk about low budget.
But the more serious question is, look, we're about two months, maybe a little more than two months to the inauguration. In between there, we have two major vacation periods. We've got Thanksgiving. We've got Christmas. This is not about taking someone out of a position and putting in someone who's more loyal.
As a president who's about to leave his position, you don't have time to do that. You've got less than two months, if you take out the vacation time. This is about spite. I'm angry. I don't have much time left, so the people who didn't support me, they're gone, whether it's at defense, at CIA, at FBI they're gone. This is about spite. It's not about policy. And it's certainly not about replacing somebody with a person who's more loyal because you just don't have time to do that.
BURNETT: No, you don't. All right. I want to bring in Ben Hovland as well, who is the Chairman of the U.S. Election Assistance Commission. And I believe when you and I talked the other day, Ben, you've worked with Mr. Krebs. You know him. What's your reaction here to what the President of the United States has just done?
BEN HOVLAND, CHAIRMAN OF THE U.S. ELECTION ASSISTANCE COMMISSION: Yes. I don't have official confirmation yet that what has happened - obviously, I saw the tweet, certainly concerning. My experience with Director Krebs is that he's been a great Director of CISA, showed a lot of leadership, particularly in the election space.
I know he has done a great job pulling together the team and has enjoyed working with him on election issues. We had such a success story this year as far as what we were able to do through the critical infrastructure, sub sector, that partnership working on a range of issues, of course, primarily around cybersecurity, but a lot of work was done as well in response to the pandemic and running elections this year in these challenging times.
BURNETT: So Ben, you come out, your team, you're saying this is the most secure election in American history. The President of the United States now just fires, the guy who was in charge of cybersecurity and intelligence here. And comes out and says that that statement was inaccurate and then goes on to list a whole bunch of things saying that this election, massive fraud.
What is your response to that? You just sat there and spent your entire professional life running this election coming up with the most secure election in American history and the President of the United States has just come out and said that's BS.
HOVLAND: I think it's very concerning. I think that as I've said to you before, I wish that the rhetoric we keep hearing would match up with the court filings. Again, the professionals that run the selection, folks that worked on securing the selection, they dedicated a lot of their lives and has put in a lot of hours working on this to make the selection run as smoothly as it did.
And again if there are any issues, those should be investigated. But what we keep seeing in the court filings doesn't add up to the rhetoric, certainly that's concerning. And again, what we need to base our understanding of elections on, the will of the people is on facts, facts and truth.
When you talk to election officials across the country, they're comfident in the security of the selection, they're confident in the outcome of the election that this was a fair election and that Americans made their voices heard. And we've got to respect the will of the people and the public servants that helped run the selection and make this all possible.
BURNETT: So he doesn't respect it and he says, you guys are all wrong and all of this is lies. He keeps putting these falsehoods out there. So he just fired Mr. Krebs, could fire you by tweet any moment, right? I mean, I presume you expect that to be possible, right?
HOVLAND: I'm in a little different position, so we are an independent bipartisan agency at the Election Assistance Commission. I guess that's certainly possible to try. There's any number of things that you can put on Twitter as we've learned. But again, to me, this is about respecting the will of the American people and respecting our democracy.
[19:25:02]
And I can just say that the work - it's been an honor to work with Chris Krebs and his team. They did an amazing job reaching out to state and local election officials. Since 2016, there's really just been a sea change and information sharing across state, local and federal government that has really - when we talk about our confidence in the security of this election, in the processes and procedures that were in place, so much of that is because the work that has gone in since 2016 to improve that information sharing, improve the security of our elections, put in place additional safeguards. And so, again, a lot of that credit goes to Director Krebs, goes to his team for the work that they've done.
BURNETT: All right. Well, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much, Ben Hovland. As the President has just fired another person by tweet and in the President's tweet putting a whole bunch of falsehoods.
We have more breaking news. Next, I'm going to speak to a longtime Republican donor who's been in touch with the Trump campaign. What's his reaction to this firing tonight?
Plus, the Senate's second oldest Senator, Chuck Grassley, he is 87 years old has now tested positive for Coronavirus. We have new details tonight on his health.
Plus, Republican and former NFL player Burgess Owens flipping a seat that was held by a Democrat. Could the message he ran on be a winning strategy for Republicans?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BURGESS OWENS, U.S. REPRESENTATIVE-ELECT IN UTAH: You'll find out that BLM Inc. is nothing but a Marxist organization.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:30:22]
BURNETT: Breaking news: President Trump firing Christopher Krebs, the senior Department at Homeland Security official, the person in charge of having a secure presidential election. Krebs' group was behind the statement by federal officials the other day that called the 2020 presidential election, quote, the most secure in American history. A statement the president now says is false and says that is why he is firing Krebs.
OUTFRONT now, John Brennan, the former CIA director under President Obama.
Director Brennan, so the president says the statement was a highly inaccurate, massive improprieties and fraud, goes on to list a whole bunch of things that are false.
Your reaction to this news? JOHN BRENNAN, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: Well, Chris Krebs is a highly
qualified and widely respected cyber security expert. He knows of which he speaks.
And I think Chris and the rest of the cyber security professionals in the U.S. government did an excellent job this year in trying to secure the election process. Donald Trump knows nothing about cyber security or technology. Therefore he again continues to condemn those who say anything that he disagrees with and since he is trying to steal the election back from Joe Biden, I think he sees Chris Krebs as being the target of vendetta that obviously he has wielded tonight.
BURNETT: And I just want to be clear here. You know, we've interviewed the man in charge of the election in Georgia, Republican, life-long Republican. They've had independent audits go in the places they used that software, they found absolutely nothing. Adds up to exactly as it should, exactly as the Department of Homeland Security has said and officials across this country, Democrat and Republican.
So, let me just ask you, Director, though, what do you make of the fact this just happened that the president is sitting there doing this? He fired his defense secretary by tweet and is now firing Christopher Krebs by tweet. He's just -- he's just doing this stuff. I mean, this is unhinged behavior.
BRENNAN: Well, it is. He is just brooding in the White House right now and it clearly shows that he is impulsive. He is reckless. And he will do things because he can do it and, unfortunately, he still wields the powers of the presidency and will do so for another 60 plus days which makes it very, very dangerous I think from the standpoint of national security and homeland security.
What else might Donald Trump do to take action against those he perceives to be his enemies? What might he do on the foreign field?
And so, I think the real disgrace here are the Republicans. Every Republican member of Congress who has not spoken out against these types of reckless actions should be, you know, condemned by Americans because they are allowing Donald Trump to continue down this authoritarian road that I think is just fraught with additional dangers.
BURNETT: So, what do you make of those who are enabling him, right? You got Republicans enabling him by their very silence and I hear you. That is incredibly powerful.
But there's others. You have Rudy Giuliani, used to be America's mayor, right? He is out there peddling a whole bunch of complete lies, right, saying, you know, 800,000 votes are stolen in a state. I mean, this stuff is false and it's very damaging.
You know, you were the head of the CIA. You spent a lifetime, a career analyzing people, why they do things, their motives. What are the motives of people like Rudy Giuliani right now?
BRENNAN: Well, a lot of people are motivated by financial gain. And, unfortunately, Donald Trump still has a fair amount of influence as far as who is going to provide funds to various re-election campaigns as well as to individuals like Rudy Giuliani and others who continue to market themselves outside.
But these are people who quite frankly have sold their souls and have not a single vestige of integrity left in them, and it just shows the toxic impact of Donald Trump, someone like Donald Trump who has no ethics or principles, and had no adherence to norms and standards and even the law. But he has influenced these individuals in such a way that again their actions are unconscionable.
BURNETT: So, Director, what do you say to people who are deeply worried as probably many are about the damage being done not just to American people's belief in the system but to the system, to American safety? With 64 more days of this sort of thing going on? We have 64 more days.
BRENNAN: Yeah. I think there needs to be a national clarion call to all the members of Congress, Republicans and Democrats, and the Senate and the House of Representatives expressing our great, deep concern as well as outrage over the fact that Donald Trump continues to act in this very impulsive and reckless manner.
I have once before called for the 25th Amendment to be invoked by Vice President Pence and the rest of the cabinet. If they have any sense of patriotism to their country, they would either be restraining Trump from doing these types of things or they would be taking action into their own hands to wrest away from him the powers of the presidency.
[19:35:10]
But I hope he doesn't go down a path that really is going to be dangerous and even more damaging to the health and welfare of this country.
BURNETT: Director Brennan, I appreciate your time. Thank you, sir.
BRENNAN: Thank you, Erin.
BURNETT: Next, more on our breaking news. I'm going to talk to a long time Republican donor who's been in touch with the Trump campaign. His reaction to tonight's breaking news at this hour of the firing.
Plus, Republicans have now flipped their ninth House seat and in every case the winner, the Republican winner was either a woman or a person of color. Are Democrats taking notice?
I'm going to ask the House Majority Whip Jim Clyburn.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Breaking news, President Trump staying out of sight, bunkered down in the White House, lashing out though on Twitter, firing another head of an agency. This time, the director of the Homeland Security Agency who had rejected Trump's election conspiracy theories and came out and said this was the safest, most secure election in American history.
OUTFRONT now, long time Republican donor, Dan Eberhart.
[19:40:03]
He has been on the Trump campaign's daily surrogate calls.
Dan, I appreciate your time.
DAN EBERHART, REPUBLICAN DONOR: Thank you.
BURNETT: So, you know, another firing moments ago by the president. This time, it's Chris Krebs who -- the president is claiming this wasn't the most secure election, he is saying there were massive improprieties, massive fraud, things that we know weren't true. What do you make of what the president is doing right now this purge here in his -- I mean, it's not even his final days but these days since the election?
EBERHART: Yeah, so first, you know, I think there were some, you know, illegitimate things with the voting but I think it is largely irrelevant. The victory has been won by Joe Biden. I think Trump needs to move on.
This post-election purge is damaging to the democracy and just seems like crying over spilled milk to me.
BURNETT: So, how do you -- how do you get through to him with what you just said, right? What you're essentially saying is, sure. You're going to find a few things here and there that went wrong in an election as you always would. It isn't going to change the outcome and what you're doing now is really harmful for the country. How do you get through to him?
EBERHART: Well, I think that what needs to happen now is unfortunately I feel like this is something James Madison and the rest of the Founding Fathers forgot, you know, in this kind of situation, we really need like a regent or something post an election loss for one- term president. It seems like in this case, a regent for the boy king.
You know, what we need to do as a country is we need to move on and I think Trump has frozen the Republican Party and is just causing disastrous consequences for the brand, the Republican brand, and that's what I worry about also for the country.
We need to have, you know, an incoming Biden administration has the tools that it needs and Trump needs to free the Republican Party to focus on what it needs to do, which is, you know, focus on Georgia right now and then winning elections in 2022. Him freezing the field is bad for the party, bad for its brand, and also bad for the country right now.
BURNETT: So, Dan, you could come out and say all this. What do you think that --
EBERHART: I am. BURNETT: -- so many aren't? I mean, so many other Republicans -- most
of them are not doing what you're doing, right? They're not.
EBERHART: I think they are afraid of the Trump team. Right now, Mitch McConnell and his team nobody in the Republican Party wants to -- until we have the elections in Georgia because they think Trump controls the base and the base is loyal to Trump, not necessarily to the party and it is.
But Trump got 9.5 million more votes than he got in 2016. So he accomplished something. He's got a huge following out there and Mitch McConnell and the rest of the Republicans want to win in Georgia which is where I'm from, and the problem is nobody wants to call Trump out, nobody wants to say anything. Everybody else wants somebody else to do it, first in the Republican Party. And nobody is blinking.
And right now, that's freezing everything.
BURNETT: Yeah.
EBERHART: Trump is trying to freeze the field. He doesn't want to be the next Sarah Palin. He wants to be relevant in 2022, and it is causing a disaster for everyone.
BURNETT: So, Dan, what do you -- we're looking at his schedule, right? No public events. He cancels his trip next week. He fires another -- the guy who said that America's elections were secure via tweet tonight saying they weren't secure.
What is his end game? What is he doing? Do you have any sense?
EBERHART: I think his end game -- his end game is to stay relevant, but I think crying over the last play of the game two weeks later is really a bit irrelevant. You know, ESPN in this metaphor, move on.
But Trump sees it as a way to fire up the base, sees it as a way to get the right wing energized. He is raising money off this in excess of $60 million that's going to be used for a leadership PAC to keep him relevant in 2022 and potentially beyond, and that's what his focus is on. But it's problematic for the party like I said and it is causing a lot of disruption for the machinery of government, and this is something for us all to be concerned with.
We really need a circuit breaker or something like this in a situation where a sore loser can't throw sand in the gears of government.
BURNETT: So, I mean, you've made your point of view here very clear, Dan. But, you know, he is sitting there watching television as he always does. You know, what do you say if he hears you right now?
EBERHART: What -- sorry, Erin? What would I say to him?
BURNETT: Yeah. What would you say to him if he is sitting with the volume up watching you?
EBERHART: Look, Mr. Trump, President Trump, you fought a good fight. You got more votes than you got in 2016. I definitely think you beat the spread.
But, look, unfortunately, you lost and the party and the country need you to move on. As a Republican, what's best for us is to make Mitch McConnell the strongest we can which is to win the two seats down in Georgia and what's best for the country is to prepare to hand Joe Biden the keys and to make sure you don't make kind of massive policy changes after losing the election, like these troop draw-downs or this post-election purge. And you should be very, very wary of that and think about your legacy.
BURNETT: I want to ask you one other question. I know you've been a major supporter of Senator Lankford from Oklahoma.
[19:45:01]
And obviously, you know --
EBERHART: That's true.
BURNETT: -- he had come out originally and said that Biden need to receive these national security briefings, it seemed in favor of that, but has been very reluctant now to go through with that, reluctant to step up and say Biden gets those briefings.
What do you say to Lankford?
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: Yeah.
EBERHART: Yeah, I'm a big fan of Senator Lankford and I think that he should do the right thing and call for Biden to get these transition papers. But, look, all these Republicans are in a very difficult box because they perceive Trump controls the populist base of the party and no one wants to cross him.
Everybody wants somebody else to do it first and right now, Mitch McConnell is trying to hold the entire puppet, all these puppet strings together so that Trump doesn't get angry and spook the base in Georgia and cause us to lose those two Senate seats on the way out the door.
So, this goes back to what I said three minutes ago, Erin.
BURNETT: Yeah.
EBERHART: You know, James Madison forgot to include something in the Constitution. Trump has figured out how to weaponize the machinery of government post election loss and this is something that happens in a banana republic not George Washington's republic and we should all be very concerned about that.
Look, the Trump administration is a melting ice cube and Trump needs to realize that, and we as a country and us as a Republican Party need to get prepared to move beyond this
BURNETT: All right. Well, Dan, I appreciate your time.
EBERHART: Thank you.
BURNETT: And your blunt words. Thank you very much.
And also breaking tonight, Senator Chuck Grassley confirms he has coronavirus. He is 87 years old. The senator is now in self-quarantine at his home in Iowa.
Iowa meantime is surpassing more than 2,000 deaths tonight. The White House coronavirus experts calling Iowa's spread, quote, aggressive and unrelenting, saying the state response is, their word, "inadequate".
Miguel Marquez is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Butch Hansen, 84 years old, diagnosed with COVID-19 last week.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to get a CAT scan of your chest. You got some junk, so probably have pneumonia, but I want to make sure you don't have a blood clot in your lung.
MARQUEZ: Today, he's back in the emergency room.
(on camera): Why did you come back today?
BUTCH HANSEN, DIAGNOSED WITH COVID-19: I had a rough time with that phlegm last night. That's all I did, cough up that phlegm. And I thought, well, it's either the COVID or something else. Let's find out what it is.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): Hansen, a retired farmer, says he's been careful.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Open your mouth. Say ahh.
MARQUEZ: But he may have picked it up by a family member.
Regional health services of Howard County, in Cresco, Iowa, it's the hospital, the ambulance service, the public health department and hospice care for the entire county. The 19-bed facility moves most its sickest patients to larger hospitals.
With Iowa, the Midwest and the country all seeing a sharp increase in cases and patients, finding an available bed in a larger facility, not so easy these days.
DR. JOHN KAMMERER, DOCTOR OF FAMILY MEDICINE, REGIONAL HEALTH SERVICES OF HOWARD COUNTY: The biggest concern in the last week is when we call and ask for them to help take care of our patients who may be sicker than we're used to taking care of, they don't have beds for us. And so, that's where the strain really comes on.
MARQUEZ: Over the last month, hospitalizations across Iowa have skyrocketed, under 500 COVID hospitalized in the mid-October. Now, nearly 1,400 Iowans hospitalized with COVID-19.
And if there's a surge with nowhere to send critically ill patients --
(on camera): So this is the in case of emergency, open this?
BRADY NORMAN, DIRECTOR, AMBULANCE SERVICES & EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS, HOWARD COUNTY, IOWA: Pretty much, pretty much.
MARQUEZ: How many more people could you surge up to with everything here?
NORMAN: We have the capability of adding up to 50 beds. My hope is to never have to open this trailer.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): Today, the entire health-care system here pushed to its limits.
(on camera): What is COVID doing to places like Howard County and Cresco right now?
CHAD RASMUSSEN, NURSE PRACTITIONER, REGIONAL HEALTH SERVICES OF HOWARD COUNTY: You know, it's starting to stress us out. We, you know, have limited resources.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): In the first month of the pandemic here, Howard County saw 13 coronavirus cases. Over the last month, there were 411.
With holidays around the corner, the fear, it's going to get a lot worse.
(on camera): With Thanksgiving coming up, how concerned are you with what you're going to see around Christmas?
RASMUSSEN: I have a feeling it's going to be out of control. I really worry about health care in general, around Christmas, because if everybody gets together on Thanksgiving, has all their big gatherings, within two weeks, then we'll start to see the outbreaks start.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MARQUEZ: And this is the grand issue that towns across Iowa, big and small, are facing. The entire system is basically filling up. There are fewer and fewer places for places like Cresco to send patients in other towns.
[19:50:01]
At some point, they are afraid that there will be people dying in their homes, dying in parking lots, waiting for help.
One good note in all of this story, the gentleman that was in the story off the top, Mr. Hansen, looks like he's going to make it.
BURNETT: Yeah.
MARQUEZ: Thank God they're making it tough in Iowa. Erin, back to you.
BURNETT: All right. Miguel, thank you very much.
And now, breaking news, Republicans just blocking the certification of election results in Detroit. This is an unprecedented move. States that Biden won, Michigan, by 148,000 votes. We have details of this breaking story right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: All right. We have breaking news out of Michigan. In an unprecedented move, Republicans in Wayne County, which is home to Detroit, have blocked certifications to the county's election results.
Now, I just want to be clear here. In the state of Michigan, President-elect Biden won Michigan by more than 148,000 votes. About 15 times, 14 times more than the margin by which Trump won last time around.
And the reason that wind was made possible was a strong showing in Wayne County in Detroit.
This move may jeopardize his claim to the state's votes.
Tom Hamburger is from "The Washington Post" and he joins me now.
So, Tom, this is your reporting. Let's just go through this here.
Clearly, you had to have a county board in Wayne County, right, to certify these results. This should have been a formality. Two Republicans, two Democrats blocked by the Republicans?
[19:55:03]
TOM HAMBURGER, POLITICS REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST (via telephone): Yeah, it was -- Erin, it was a split vote, two to two. And under Michigan law, that means that the county vote is not certified. Election lawyers in Michigan tell us that this is unprecedented and some of the Democrats on that board and Democrats observing this process see it as racist and uncalled for, and that the vote failed to do its duty.
It's important to note that this simply bumps up the certification decision to a state board in Michigan. And the expectation among legal observers here is still that Joe Biden's overwhelming victory will be acknowledged by the state and that there will not be an attempt in Lansing to intervene with that pretty clear result.
BURNETT: OK. So let me just ask you a bit more about that because when people hear this, they go, well, say wait a minute, you are talking a margin here of 148,000 plus votes for the state.
HAMBURGER: Yes.
BURNETT: As I said, about 14 times greater than the margin by which Trump won the vote last time around, uncontested.
So this board, according to your report, Tom, I'm reading your story right now, the next board that this goes, to the state regulatory board, meets November 23rd. That's next Monday.
So tell me about that board. I mean, is it possible that this puts the entire state of Michigan, you know, up for grabs, and then you have a Republican legislature or something decide who gets Michigan?
HAMBURGER: So, Erin, you're describing the fears of Democratic Party lawmakers and activists that I've been hearing in Michigan for the past couple of weeks. Despite this vote that occurred today, there are a couple of countervailing things to be aware of. One is that though the county board of canvas areas in Wayne County declined today, by a 2 to 2 tie vote to certify Detroit's overwhelming vote for Joe Biden because of concerns about irregularities and vote, it now goes to a state board of canvassers.
And that state board has an opportunity to also certify it. Something that happened late today, the state majority leader in Lansing, a Republican, Republicans control the legislature in Lansing, and there was a fear that Republicans might attempt to somehow change the electoral vote if there was no agreement, there was no certified vote.
This state leader, Mike Shirkey said today unequivocally that Joe Biden has won the vote and that he anticipates no intervention. He points out Michigan law requires that the winner of the popular election received the electoral votes of the state.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Tom, I appreciate your time very much. Thank you very much. Tom Hamburger from "The Washington Post" breaking the story.
So, I want to go now to Ben Ginsberg, Republican election lawyer, served as national counsel to the Bush campaign during the 2000 recount.
So, Ben, you heard what Tom just said. This is unprecedented, right? This is an unprecedented thing. By the way, the margin, here 68 to 31 percent for Wayne County in favor of Joe Biden -- Detroit, obviously, in there.
What do you make of this unprecedented move? Purely party line by a county elections board to not certify.
BEN GINSBERG, CNN ELECTION ANALYST (via telephone): Yes, it's sort of so politically transparent that I doubt it will hold up in the long run. But Tom Hamburger and "The Washington Post" reporting about the Michigan majority leader saying is really probably where this is going. It could ultimately go to the Michigan courts or even a federal court. And it's highly unusual that you are going to basically disenfranchise a half million voters in Detroit on the vote of basically a county election board like this.
So, I suspect that this will ultimately be overturned. And it's a little -- it is a little bit of a small victory for the Trump campaign in the short run.
BURNETT: Yeah, because it comes -- it comes a day after plaintiffs, you know, who had a case on behalf of the Trump campaign and in support of the Trump campaign dropped their case in Michigan that alleged fraud. They dropped it. They gave up.
GINSBERG: Yeah, exactly.
And what's important is that you have to local political officials serving on the Wayne County board who undoubtedly came under intense political pressure, thought they could get their moment in the sun, but it is such a contrary to democracy move that it is really unlikely to hold up in the long run.
BURNETT: I'm just amazed that there's so many things contrary to democracy happening in this country right now.
GINSBERG: A fair point.
BURNETT: It is -- it's deeply concerning. Ben, I appreciate your time. Thank you so much for being able to jump
on and giving us that analysis and that breaking news.
Thank you.
And thanks very much to all of you. We appreciate your time being with us for all this breaking news this hour.
"AC360" with Anderson starts right now.
