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Erin Burnett Outfront
U.S. Surpasses A Quarter Of A Million Coronavirus Deaths; HHS Told Not To Communicate With Biden Team; Wisconsin Elections Commission Meeting Now About Trump Recount Requests; Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-MN) Is Interviewed About The Election And Trump's Firing Of Top Election Security Official. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired November 18, 2020 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: And may their memories be a blessing. Thanks very much for wathing. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM.
"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next breaking news, the U.S. just reaching a grim and once unfathomable milestone, a quarter of a million Americans are dead of coronavirus as the President blocks the Biden ministration from talking to health officials. Trump's testings czar, Admiral Brett Giroir is my guest.
Plus, Trump clinging to power, now requesting a recount in two Wisconsin counties where his margin of loss is more than 350,000 votes. He thinks he's going to turn that around with a recount? The top election officials in those counties are OUTFRONT.
And seven in 10 Republicans tonight believe that Joe Biden only won the election because of voter fraud, 70 percent believe something that is untrue. Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, a quarter million Americans dead of coronavirus. The United States just crossing that grim milestone tonight. And tonight, Trump's testing csar, Admiral Brett Giroir is sounding the alarm.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. BRETT GIROIR, ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR HEALTH, HHS: Hospitalizations are going up 25 percent week over week. Our deaths are going up by 25 percent week over week and this is not going in the right direction. We are at eight absolutely critical dangerous point.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: I'm going to speak to Admiral Giroir in just a moment. He is sounding the alarm. Hospitalizations are at a record, more than 76,000 Americans tonight are in the hospital because of coronavirus and deaths are surging, 1,700 Americans died of the virus just yesterday.
Tonight, the nation's largest school district, New York City, is again closing schools indefinitely. And yet President Trump is actively handicapping America's response to the pandemic.
Trump's Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar saying today that his agency will not work with Joe Biden's team until the GSA, the General Services Administration makes the determination that Biden is the President-elect, the person there who makes that call is a Trump appointee. She's blocking it because the President is not signing off on it.
And sources tell CNN that some HHS staffers have been ordered to not just ignore, but to report anyone from the Biden transition team if they even try to contact the agency. To report anyone trying to support a peaceful transition of power, someone trying to figure out what the heck is going on with the response to a pandemic that has claimed a quarter million American lives.
This is not a sick joke. It's reality. Yes, it is wrong and it is despicable, but Trump is doing it. And today, President-elect Joe Biden says that because he's not allowed to coordinate with Giroir and his colleagues, it will delay the distribution of life-saving vaccines.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: Soon we're going to be behind by weeks and months being able to put together the whole initiative relating to the biggest traumas we have with two drug companies. So I just want to tell you that that's the only slow down right now that we have.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OK. This is wrong that it's happening and it is all the doing of, let me say it, a person who is delusional, who is perverting power. Now, President-elect Joe Biden is meeting with healthcare workers to try to reinvent the wheel and he showed something today that wouldn't be out of the ordinary except for it is in this case, because we have not seen it once from President Trump, not once. Biden today did something every single one of us has done during this tragic and painful year. He wiped away a tear.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARY TURNER, PRESIDENT, MINNESOTA NURSES ASSOCIATION: We need to act now. We need to act quickly to protect our healthcare workers, so that we can save as many lives as possible. Thank you.
BIDEN: Mary ...
TURNER: I'm sorry, I'm so emotional.
BIDEN: ... no.
TURNER: It's just ...
BIDEN: You got me emotional.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Nurse Mary Turner will also join me live later this hour. Meanwhile, Trump has not held an official COVID-related event in more than a month. Instead, we know what he's been doing, no public events. That's what they put out every single night with the agenda for tomorrow, no public events. That's what we got for tomorrow for the White House.
It is the 11th day since the election with no public events on the President's schedule. The only thing that he's doing publicly is tweeting a diarrhea of lies about the election, including one today that honestly at this point, I mean, this is not stable. "I WON THE ELECTION," in all caps.
Now, how can you be living in a false world like this? Well, there is a reason and it is because there are still people around him who are feeding his insatiable, in fact his rapacious hunger for affirmation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The President believes and so to do many others that if every legal vote is counted, he will remain president.
[19:05:00]
He's left an infrastructure in place where COVID can be handled and we believe that we will do so going forward in a second Trump administration.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Arlette Saenz is with President-elect Joe Biden in Wilmington, Delaware. Kaitlan Collins is OUTFRONT live outside the White House.
So let me begin with you, Arlette. Obviously, it seems team Biden at first they were quite sanguine about this. Don't worry about it, it'll be OK. Now, clearly, we are seeing it much more impatience with this lack of transition, because they feel it's setting them behind.
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, Erin, President-elect to Joe Biden's team with each passing day believes that it becomes more important for this ascertainment and this official transition process to get underway. And you heard that directly from Biden himself earlier when he met with frontline health care workers and he talked about this entire holdup and how it's complicating their long-term planning positions without access to basic information from the federal government related to data and even the COVID-19 distribution plans.
Biden has said that without access to those plans, they could be delayed in their own distribution of proposals possibly weeks and possibly months. So you are constantly hearing that, keeping up this pressure on the Trump administration to start cooperating with them. But for the most part right now, it seems like there isn't any inches or movements towards that happening at all.
And while Biden is battling with this lack of access to basic information from the Trump administration, he's also starting to acknowledge publicly some of the political realities that he could face when he takes office and potentially is dealing with a divided Congress. In a call earlier today, a private call with supporters, he talked about how he expects to face some real brick walls in the Senate, if Republicans hold on to their majority.
Biden has often expressed this hope that Republicans will come around and work with him in the long-term, but he is acknowledging that in the immediate aftermath, when he takes office, he is expecting some roadblocks being put up. It could come with his cabinet nominees or possibly his legislative agenda. But these are all things that Biden is working through as he's still trying to make it clear that even without the Trump administration's help right now, he is still plowing forward with his transition process.
BURNETT: All right. Arlette, thank you very much.
And I want to go to Kaitlan now at the White House. So Kaitlan, obviously, still no sign from the President that he's going to do anything here to have a transition. I mean, he's still tweeting in all caps that he won.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. No sign from the President. But one thing that is notable is you're starting to hear his allies on Capitol Hill creep a little bit closer just a little to saying that this transition should start taking place with people like Sen. Lindsey Graham saying earlier, he does believe that Biden should start to get those intelligence briefings. Though, of course, that's a far cry from what a full-on transition would look like.
But the President has resisted those efforts so far, but what we're learning tonight, Erin, that's new and notable is that there are current and former Trump administration officials who have been reaching out to people they believe are going to be in the Biden administration or on the Biden transition team to try to start to get those conversations going.
And Sen. Chris Coons, a Democrat is in working with Biden earlier confirmed this reporting for my CNN colleagues and said they haven't been these substantive discussions, but they have started to have those talks. Because you're seeing officials who do realize the damage this could cause they're trying to go ahead and reach out to them.
But we have not heard from the President on this. We haven't heard from him at all. He hasn't taken our questions in over two weeks and so we haven't seen the President since on Friday and the White House insists he's still working. He's still focused on coronavirus. But Erin, we should note, the President hasn't attended a task force meeting in five months, even though they've had one held just in the last week, so that gives you any idea.
We're actually told by sources, he's much more consumed by the state of this election and contesting the results than he is with the pandemic surging across the country.
BURNETT: And I guess his actions certainly show that to be the case. Kaitlan, thank you very much.
And there are plenty inside the Trump administration right now doing everything they can to try to do the right thing in this moment of crisis. One of them is the Assistant Secretary for Health in the Department of Health and Human Services, Admiral Brett Giroir. Also the coronavirus testing czar for the Trump administration.
So Admiral, I don't know when you mic'd in and could hear here, but I played you a moment ago when you said this country is in an absolutely dangerous situation. You referred to hospitalizations and deaths up 25 percent over the past week. This is bad. Can it get even worse?
GIROIR: So thank you so much for having me on. I want to start with one positive note and that is the end of the pandemic is in sight with the vaccines. We have two apparently highly effective vaccines that are safe and work in elderly. This is going to be our end game and we're so excited.
That being said, this will get worse.
[19:10:01]
We have had 1 million cases documented over the past week. Our rate of rise is higher than it even was in the summer. We have hospitalizations going up 25 percent, week over week, unfortunately, mortality going up. Your chances of surviving are much better now than they were even a few months ago because of the great health care workers and new therapies, but there are so many more cases that we have that deaths are going up.
And unfortunately, we do anticipate this to continue at least for the next couple of weeks. But as you've heard so many times before, we know how to fix this. We've done it in Arizona, in Texas, in Florida, across the south. They have done it in the U.K. and in France and it's all about absolute adherence to wearing a mask, avoiding crowds.
And yes, we can keep the economy open, but we're going to have to diminish indoor places like indoor dining and restaurants. We're going to have to do hygiene. If we do these things, we can flatten it just like they've done in the U.K. and France.
BURNETT: So let me ask you, though, when you talk about that things can get worse and I just like to put it in the context of none of the deaths that are happening right now are necessary. This all could have been prevented. You have a vaccine coming. If everybody was able to do all of the things you just said you could prevent it and you're going to be having one to 2,000 people a day die. It is a great tragedy.
Yet, we're eight days away from Thanksgiving. The AAA says 50 million Americans are still going to possibly travel by car and plane. United Airlines says they're going to have the busiest week since the pandemic began. They want to add 1,400 additional flights in the United States for the demand for next week. How much does that worry you based on what you're seeing?
GIROIR: It does worry me quite a bit, Erin. Again, people, I understand missed their relatives. This has been a stressful time. We support individuals making those decisions, but you really have to think about this.
My wife and I made the decision, I would love to see my mother, her mother, but we're just not going to go back because I don't want to risk them from my being traveling and going to them.
But the CDC - I'll just ask your readers, your listeners, your viewers to go to Google CDC holiday gatherings, there are many good suggestions on how you can make safer choices. Try to keep the gatherings within your household or a couple of households that adhere to the rules. Try to have good ventilation.
Yes, you may need to mask indoors. That's very, very important. And the last thing I would say is I know there's a rush to testing now. But if you're tested negative today, that doesn't mean you're going to be negative tomorrow or next week.
BURNETT: No.
GIROIR: That does not give you a free pass to avoid all the mitigation. You could still be highly infectious next week and really endanger your family.
BURNETT: So an administration official tells us, Admiral, that HHS staffers have been informed that if anyone from Biden's team contacts them, they're not to communicate with them, they have to instead alert the Deputy Surgeon General of the communication because the GSA has not approved any of this happening. They have not approved a transition to actually occur. Have you been given any such warning?
GIROIR: So I haven't and let me clarify this, because I think this was taken a little bit out of context. The Deputy Surgeon General, Dr. Erica Schwartz, is the transition official for HHS. There is a presidential transition team, which are career officials, one per agency.
It is just the rule and she has been told this rule and she transmitted it. She is the most loyal, selfless person for public health. The rule is if someone from the Biden transition team contacts, one of those on the Presidential transition team, the official person for each agency, they are supposed to notify Dr. Schwartz, Admiral Schwartz and she's supposed to tell the GSA.
That's the rule until there's ascertainment. I don't make the rules. We all want to be transparent. We all want to transmit public health, but it's not quite as ominous as you suggested (inaudible) ...
BURNETT: Right. And I understand and I'm not trying to say that she is doing anything nefarious. I mean, there's conversations that should be happening that aren't happening. The reason they're not happening is there's a person and that person is President Trump and he's not allowing it to happen, so I'm not trying to put the blame or aspersions on anyone else.
But since you're not able to have these conversations, Biden is saying that this could delay the vaccine. They're not able to coordinate, that this could have real costs. So as someone who has helped lead this fight since it began as you have, Admiral, if there's one thing you would want to tell them right now that you can't because you're not out of the conversation, what would it be?
[19:15:00]
GIROIR: That's a very good question, Erin. I'm going to tell you that when the time is set, we are, of course, going to be as transparent as open as possible. I would say one thing, though, is that I understand early discussions are better than later discussions. This is a historic pandemic and we all need to be on the same page. I am not arguing with that at all.
I do want to reassure the American people though, that there's going to be no delay in vaccine distribution. This is an incredibly well- oiled plan. We have two vaccines that look effective. We're going to have at least 50 million doses distributed by the end of 2020. So I want to assure Americans and to the degree, I can assure Biden's transition team that we don't expect any loss of months or weeks or even a day.
And remember, almost all of the people working on these teams or career officials. They're not going to go away. So I do anticipate earlier is better, there will be good transition and this distribution plan is incredibly solid and well thought out by the best people in the country.
BURNETT: All right. Admiral, I appreciate your time. Thank you, sir.
GIROIR: Thank you, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. And I want to go now to longtime aide to President-elect Biden, now a member of the Biden-Harris transition advisory board, Jared Bernstein. So Jared, you just heard Admiral Giroir there, sort of took a deep breath on what he would want to say to you, you guys aren't allowed to talk. Early discussions are better than later, but he does feel confident in their vaccine distribution plan that it's going to be OK. Does this give you confidence?
JARED BERNSTEIN, FORMER CHIEF ECONOMIST & ECONOMIC ADVISER FOR VP BIDEN: Well, I really heard the sense of urgency in his voice, but I'm afraid that what we need to see is what we're not seeing. And you've been very emphatic in your introduction to this discussion about a couple of really key things that get overlooked when you talk about, we'll get to it as soon as we can and that is avoidable suffering.
Now, the American people have spoken, as you've been very clear. They've elected Joe Biden to be the next president of this country. And I assure you and I suspect you noticed this, the President and the Vice President-elect are anxious to hit the ground running and get to work and there is a lot of work to be done. We have a virus that's surging and an economy that's slowing and every
transition day that is lost, so the last part of the rap there is not quite right, because it's kind of like, well, when we get to it we'll try to make up for losses. Every transition day that's lost delays our transition team's ability to effectively respond. And this puts thousands of Americans at risk of illness and death and economic hardship and this is avoidable suffering and it should be avoided.
BURNETT: So the HHS Secretary Alex Azar says that his department will not work with Biden's team, with any of you all until the GSA determines Biden won. Now, I made that point to Admiral Giroir, but I'm not casting aspersions on the people who are doing what they're being told to do. But the person at the top here is President Trump and his appointee who runs the GSA, they're refusing to allow anybody to have these conversations so that nobody can do this.
BERNSTEIN: Yes.
BURNETT: How concerning is this at this point?
BERNSTEIN: So it is extremely concerning and the American people need to know that this is not normal. OK. Twelve years ago, literally a few hours after President Obama was declared the winner of that race, the Bush administration ascertain that the President Obama had won and the transition began.
Now, you will recall that that was also a time of economic hardship.
BURNETT: Yes.
BERNSTEIN: Back then it was the worst recession since the Great Depression. Now, Erin, you can't say that anymore. I was part of that transition as the Vice President-elect Biden's chief economist, I saw a close up what a proper transition looks like. And what it looks like is a lot of people working really hard to deal with the challenges they face with that, which at that point much like now, is to put together a fiscal package to help relieve small businesses that are at risk of failing.
Tens of millions of people who are at risk of losing their unemployment insurance coverage, state and local budgets that are hurting, people who are facing eviction or nutritional shortfalls, that takes a lot of work to get that ready. And our transition team was working on that at this point already and so that's not happening now. And the fact that it's not happening means that we are not avoiding suffering and hardship that could and should be avoided.
[19:20:02]
BURNETT: So if they're waiting for an Electoral College sign off, which I'm going to put aside everything they're doing to prevent any such thing from ever occurring, but then you're at least waiting until the middle of December. You're at least waiting another few weeks for this to happen.
At one point, I know that the Biden campaign had said, look, legal options will be on the table, if the GSA doesn't move forward. They had seemed to say, all right, we're not going to do that. We're going to sort of be polite about this. But are legal option is going to go back on the table? I mean, waiting another few weeks, it would seem is hugely significant.
BERNSTEIN: Look, I'm an economist, not a lawyer and I don't want to try to weave into a lane that I don't belong in. What I can tell you that you made this point yourself and I want to underscore it. Yes, it's the guy at the top, no question. But it's also a lot of people around him who are supporting this delusion.
Now, if that were costless, if the unemployment rate were still 3.5 percent and there wasn't a fatal vaccine that's surging across the country, that would be a bad thing for democracy. But it wouldn't be a potentially fatal and devastating economic hardship that again could be avoided.
So it's not just a matter of the guy at the top, the people around him need to start getting serious about what has to happen. And as the President-elect has said, this idea of a fiscal package and planning for the vaccine, its manufacturing and its distribution, this is not something that should wait for him being in office. This is something that has to start happening in the lame duck. It has to start happening days ago, much as we were trying to transition effectively 12 years ago when the ascertainment occurred hours after the election as it should have.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Jared. I appreciate your time. It's good to see you.
BERNSTEIN: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, the nurse whose words made President-elect Joe Biden emotional today is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TURNER: I'm sorry, I'm so emotional.
BIDEN: No.
TURNER: It's just ...
BIDEN: You got me emotional.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Plus, Trump's desperate attempt to change the election results, requesting recounts in Wisconsin's two biggest counties where his margin of losses like 360,000 votes. How in the world does he think he's going to overturn that? I'm going to talk to the election officials in charge of those counties.
And more Republicans are buying Trump's repeated games of voter fraud. Maybe that's why he did this to begin with, he just wanted to get people to believe him. Because now a new poll find seven in 10 Republicans say Biden won only because voter fraud.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:26:12]
BURNETT: Tonight, President-elect Joe Biden going emotional, wiping away a tear while he was listening to an ICU nurse describe her experience on the front lines battling COVID-19.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TURNER: I myself have held the hand of dying patients or crying over their family that they can't see. I've taken care of coworkers as they fight for their lives on a ventilator and knowing that they got sick because of the hospital or their government hasn't protected them.
Throughout this pandemic, we've had to reuse N95s so many times, sometimes the mask literally fall off our faces. In my hospital, we're still reusing N95 two times. Do you know that I have not been tested yet and I have been on the frontlines in the ICU since February.
BIDEN: You're kidding me.
TURNER: No.
We nurses, we know that we are facing immense death and suffering in the coming weeks and we will be there, but we need to act now. We need to act quickly to protect our health care workers, so that we can save as many lives as possible. Thank you.
BIDEN: Mary ...
TURNER: I'm sorry, I'm so emotional.
BIDEN: No.
TURNER: It's just ...
BIDEN: You got me emotional.
BURNETT: Mary Turner is President of the Minnesota Nurses Association and she joins me now. And I know even watching that is emotional for you, Mary.
TURNER: Yes.
BURNETT: What happened in that moment?
TURNER: Not only am I an ICU nurse who's been on the frontline since the end of February, but as the President of Minnesota Nurses Association, I have been hearing from nurses all over our organization and also knowing what's going on at our national level and there has been such despair.
Despair over the fact that we haven't had enough PPE. Despair over the fact that we're not being tested. Despair over the fact that all of our hospital systems in Minnesota and probably all across the United States are working so haphazardly. But more important for me, despair over the fact that the Federal government has not been there.
And I think what kind of happened to me today was the fact that for the first time speaking with President-elect Biden, I had hope. And with that came such an emotional release, because I finally felt like somebody was actually listening.
I mean, I've been on our local media for the last nine months, pounding the pavement trying to get anyone to listen. And today, I really felt like somebody who could really do something about it was listening to me and I was so grateful.
BURNETT: He was very quiet as he was listening to you and then he was emotional, he really - we could say he sort of ...
TURNER: Yes.
BURNETT: ... and it seemed it sort of surprised him that he felt such emotion. Did that reaction surprise you?
[19:30:02]
TURNER: Just seeing the kind of man that he appears when you see him on TV -- a little bit, but I was like, that just cemented it for me, as far as to know that he can feel what I'm feeling, that he has that empathy and that compassion, and that is what -- I'm sorry, but that's what this country needs. That's what the nurses need. That's what the frontline health care workers need.
We need somebody who's going to enact the Defense Production Act so that we can all have PPE.
BURNETT: So --
TURNER: We need some -- you know, we just need somebody who's going to be there for us.
BURNETT: He was struck, as am I and I'm sure everyone watching, by a couple of the things you said that, that you're still re-wearing N95s, that you have not been tested since February, despite being a frontline ICU nurse.
Right now, your state is getting hit terribly hard by coronavirus again. Your death count has gone up by 2,000 to 3,000 in two months. Your hospitalizations are surging again.
So you've been there since February. What are you seeing now, Mary? Has it changed at all in terms of who you're seeing in the hospital, what's happening?
TURNER: The difference from this last winter when it started is that it is now all over our whole state. We had calls from, a couple Fridays ago, we talked to nurse leaders all over the state of Minnesota. And when the nurse leader from Grand Marais, which is up on the
Gunflint Trail that's, like, the farthest point east in Minnesota, told me -- it's a critical access hospital -- and she said, we have 14 nurses that man this hospital, and five of them are out with COVID, I knew at that moment that it was truly from one corner to another in Minnesota.
And this is a scary thing, because why I actually got frightened for them is because these hospitals are not equipped. They're not equipped to take the COVID, but all of our major hospitals in all of our major cities are full. We are full.
And I think, you know, right now, we've got a handle on our PPE at north. When I say that we're still using it two times -- last march, we were wearing them ten shifts. Many of our hospitals still are having our nurses wear them five to ten shifts.
So, is it better at my hospital? Yes, it is. But do I get worried that it's going to get rough again, if we don't get a federal plan in place? Because what's going to happen is what happened this last spring, where all the states are competing with one another to get PPE, and that is just a mass (ph).
BURNETT: All right. Well, I appreciate your time.
TURNER: I don't know if I can live through that again. I don't know if I can live through that again, Erin.
BURNETT: Well, I have to say -- and I know we briefly spoke on the commercial before we were here in front of the viewers, but you know, we're all just so grateful to you and people like you. The fact that you can go to work and you can do this and you can risk your life. I think that, you know, very, very few of us could do what you do, your everyday heroism. So, thank you.
TURNER: Well, I just want to make sure I give, commend all of the nurses across the nation and all of the frontline health care workers, because I'm not alone in what we do, and I'm going to take that commendation from you and just spread that around the nation.
BURNETT: Thank you so much.
TURNER: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, we have breaking news from Wisconsin. The elections commission there meeting at this hour on the Trump campaign's request for recounts in two of the state's biggest counties, counties where Trump lost by more than 350,000 votes.
And new calls tonight for the Senate Ethics Committee to investigate Senator Lindsey Graham's conversation with Georgia's secretary of state about the recount there, a conversation in which the secretary of state suggests he, Graham, said that legal ballots be thrown out.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:38:27]
BURNETT: Breaking news: the Wisconsin elections commission meeting at this hour, as the Trump campaign requests recounts in two of the biggest counties in the state. President-elect Joe Biden leading President Trump by more than 20,000 votes statewide. The Trump campaign requesting recounts in Milwaukee and Dane Counties, in which Biden leads each by 180,000 votes.
So, just to be clear, even if Trump is somehow successful in overturning Wisconsin, which he would not be from a recount, Biden's electoral margin is so substantial that Trump would have to, you know, get Wisconsin, then also overturn Pennsylvania, the biggest state out there, the biggest state out there, and then another one, right, to even get to the magical electoral number.
Pamela Brown is OUTFRONT.
So, Pamela, context there, this is a Hail Mary pass by the Trump campaign, yeah?
PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Certainly. It's a last-ditch effort from the Trump campaign with this partial recount request in Wisconsin. And right now as you pointed out, there is a meeting ongoing about the recount rules, the official recount order starts tomorrow, then that starts the clock until December 1st.
Here is the deal, the Trump campaign is focusing on recounts in two cities in particular, in Dane County in Milwaukee because those are Democratic strongholds where Biden got a lot of votes. What the Trump campaign is essentially doing with this recount is trying to get a large batch of votes tossed out. They're alleging that the clerks in these counties didn't follow the law, didn't handle the ballots appropriately, these absentee ballots, and so, they should be thrown out.
That is a long-shot. That decision, this first step, is the decisions by the board of canvassers in those two counties, two Democrats, one Republican in both of those counties, according to Reid Magney with the elections commission. It's a long-shot that they're going to go in and toss out votes from the people in those counties.
Nonetheless, that is what the Trump campaign is asking for. I was speaking to one source tonight, Erin, asking, what is the end game here? Because as you point out, Erin, even if they somehow do toss out votes and make up the 20,000, around 20,000 margin of votes in Wisconsin, they would still have to then win other states that Trump has lost.
And this person said, look, it's one fight at a time, we have other cases pending in Pennsylvania, Michigan, but those are also viewed as long-shot cases, Erin.
BURNETT: Yeah, all right, Pam. Thank you very much.
As Pam was pointing out, if the margin in Wisconsin is 20,000, it's more than 80,000 in Pennsylvania, it's 150,000 in Michigan. We've got to get real here.
Tonight, we have the top election official from both counties conducting the recounts in Wisconsin and both are elected to their positions, both are Democrats.
So, George Christenson's with the Milwaukee County, the clerk there, and Scott McDonell is Dane County clerk.
So, George, let me start with you. Biden leads Trump currently by more than 183,000 votes in Milwaukee County. So they want you to do the recount. Do you suspect that this will change the results?
GEORGE CHRISTENSON (D), CHIEF ELECTION OFFICIAL IN MILWAUKEE COUNTY, WISCONSIN: No, Erin, we don't expect it to change the results. We had a recount in 2016, and it didn't change the results whatsoever. It was about 130-something votes across the entire state that were, as a difference. So we don't expect it to change any results. I think it's unnecessary.
But, of course, we're here to show the people of Milwaukee County and the state and the nation that our elections are accurate and fair and transparent.
BURNETT: So, Scott, what about in Dane County? Obviously, your margin was about the same.
SCOTT MCDONELL (D), DANE COUNTY CLERK: Yeah. The same as what George just said. We went through this four years ago. Our system is extremely accurate.
And that's what I said to Democratic voters four years ago when they were hoping there might be some change. I said, don't count on that. It's going to be almost exactly the same because of how strong our system is, and that's exactly what happened four years ago and that's what's going to happen this cycle, too.
BURNETT: Right. Sometimes, you know, depends how people feel when they're winning or losing in close elections.
But, George, today, you know, the Trump campaign's lead counsel claimed, without any evidence, that you all made mistakes in counting ballots. Here's how he put it. Jim Troupis is his name.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM TROUPIS, LEAD COUNSEL, TRUMP CAMPAIGN: They're the counties that have, in our view, the most significant discrepancies and problems, improper behavior, that will allow us, we think, sufficient numbers of votes to overturn this election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So, in that case, they're trying to move it, right? That this isn't just about recounting. This is about, you know, improper behavior. Then he went again to claim -- again, no evidence, I want to be clear, George -- that there could be enough ballots that don't match the envelopes they were sent in with to overturn Biden's win, which, again, more than 180,000 in your county, 20,000 statewide.
What do you say to that? They're alleging fraud here.
CHRISTENSON: Well, again, those are serious allegations, especially coming from attorneys that are unfounded, as you said. There's no evidence. I would encourage them to present some evidence, some shred of evidence.
They are not targeting Dane County or Milwaukee County because of any irregularities. They're targeting those counties, because as you've mentioned before, they're Democratic strongholds, and certainly for Milwaukee, the city of Milwaukee, it's a majority-minority city. So this is just another form of voter suppression by the Trump campaign and by Republicans.
BURNETT: So, Scott, what's your response to this claim from the campaign, that your county's had, quote, improper behavior, right? They're putting this fraud thing out there, which, by the way, is resonating with a lot of Republicans, unfortunately.
MCDONELL: Yeah, that is the really unfortunate part, is that people believe this. You know, what they're referencing was advice we got from the election commission that went to every community and was enforced across the entire state about how to handle absentee envelopes and has been that way for years and supported by Republicans in the past, unanimously.
So, it's only being brought up now as a sort of desperate attempt. And the problem, though, is that this really does undermine people's faith in our system. You know, we worked so hard to create transparency and trust. You know, everything we do is open to the public, but you can be in the polling place and watch people vote. You can be at canvas and see how we do that. You can be an observer at the recount.
In our county, we publish every ballot to the web after the election so you can click through and see them for yourself. So, that's so hard on clerks, not just in Wisconsin, but around the country, when these allegations from the White House and from Republicans are out there.
[19:45:08]
It's really, really hard when we work so hard to make sure people trust this system.
BURNETT: Well, you do, and it is so transparent. And I hope that maybe on the outcome of this -- and I know there's going to be a rough road, but the people have a whole new appreciation for people like you all who are dedicating your careers, your lives, to the Democratic enterprise of this country. It's a pretty magnificent thing.
Thank you.
CHRISTENSON: Thank you.
MCDONELL: Thank you. BURNETT: And next, the Department of Homeland Security defending
Trump's decision to fire a top election official, saying Chris Krebs went too far.
And new details tonight about Nancy Pelosi's future as House speaker as her majority in the House narrows.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Tonight, the Department of Homeland Security defending President Trump's firing of a top official charged with keeping U.S. elections safe and secure. A DH official telling CNN that Chris Krebs had no authority to discuss election fraud, which is kind of shocking because Krebs' whole job is to police fraud and he put out a statement saying it was the safest election in American history.
[19:50:05]
The statement, you know, described the 2020 election as the most secure, right? That's exactly what it said. Directly contradicting and angering the president.
OUTFRONT now, Senator Amy Klobuchar, the top Democrat on the Rules Committee which has oversight over federal elections.
So, Senator Klobuchar, you know Krebs. You've worked closely with him through the Rules Committee. You've described as firing as a, quote, gut punch to our democracy. DHS now defending that move.
Your response?
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): I just literally just read the response and you're watching my reaction in real-time. I'm shocked. You know why?
He has been briefing senators of both parties together, for a year, two years on this, including when the White House stopped the briefings. I have been in the rooms with senators, where he has explained their actions to limit fraud to basically let the public know what's going on, to stop this information, both from foreign governments.
So, for them to say suddenly, oh, he went too far when he's had a rumor -- control section of their website for months, is absolutely absurd. And this is a guy that should be given a medal. He -- one of his duties was to make sure we didn't have foreign interference in our election. There were obviously attempts, and he and many other hardworking people that he supervised, thousands of people, make sure that didn't happen.
And he has been commended by Republican senator, you know, the likes of Ben Sasse and Richard Burr, Rob Portman, and just the day since he was fired.
BURNETT: Yeah. So, Senator Lindsey Graham says he is not concerned with the state the president won. But he is looking into states that President-elect Biden won. Now, ethics experts, I'm sorry, are calling on the Senate Ethics
Committee to investigate Graham's conversation, specifically last week with the Georgia secretary of state, right, which is secretary of state said that, you know, that Graham was suggesting legally cast ballots be thrown out. Again, he's only having these conversations with states that Trump barely lost, as opposed those ones he barely won.
Do you support an ethics committee investigation, Senator?
KLOBUCHAR: Well, I don't have all the evidence, but I'm very concerned about this. I can tell you the ethics committee does look at these things, and sometimes they take action and sometimes they don't. I don't understand why Senator Graham is calling secretaries of states in other states.
I don't know where else he called, would I do know is that George Secretary of State, who is a Republican who is willing to stand up and call it out for what it was, and he's simply allowing people to do their jobs. And we're going to see the result.
BURNETT: Yeah.
KLOBUCHAR: So, for me, as I look at the future of our country and the democracy, this is Erin from my vantage point, as a lead Democrat on the Rules Committee that receives the Electoral College votes, this is all about getting those Georgia results in, which I understand are going to be this week.
Arizona, it's done.
BURNETT: Yeah.
KLOBUCHAR: Lawsuits have been found frivolous, and it is time for Donald Trump to concede this election.
BURNETT: So many of your Republican colleagues have remained silent, not all but most. As the president continues to, you know, in all caps say that he won the election and it was marred by fraud. And it wasn't. And they know this. And those are the facts.
But he keeps saying this kind of thing, and either you have -- some people going out and, you know, amplifying it, and others in their silence acquiescing to it. And that's how we get a new poll like we've got today from Monmouth University. Seventy percent of Republicans, that's 55 point million who just voted believe President-elect Biden won because of fraud.
I find that heartbreaking, right, because it's not true. And that's a lot of people. What's your reaction to that?
KLOBUCHAR: It is. That people have to stand up, and you saw some of it during the election, when people like former Governor Kasich, and Cindy McCain, Republicans who went all in to support Joe Biden, and now, you're seeing people like Mitt Romney and Susan Collins and Sasse and others, and world leaders from across the globe basically congratulating Joe Biden, Kamala Harris on their victory.
So, I do think that we have to make sure that we acknowledge that there are people who have stood up and that's going to become more and more important as this goes on. You also still have, you have Joe Biden's reaction to all this which I think has been spot on, saying, hey, I know it's hard to lose an election, I'll give you a chance, you give me a chance to the Trump voters.
BURNETT: Yeah.
KLOBUCHAR: That he wants to end the grim era of demonization, that this shouldn't be a partisan moment, it should be an American moment.
BURNETT: Yeah.
KLOBUCHAR: That is starting to sink in, and I wouldn't be surprised -- I'm not really surprised by this because Donald Trump has been commanding, you know, he lives in the White House, spending all day on Twitter.
BURNETT: Yes.
KLOBUCHAR: That's what he seems to do well people are dying.
[19:55:00]
But, eventually, people will come all around. Not everyone, but a number of them.
BURNETT: All right. Well, I appreciate your time, Senator. Thank you very much.
And next, will the next Congress be Nancy Pelosi's last as speaker?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Tonight, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi suggesting this will be her last term as speaker of the House, and it comes as a Democrat's majority in the House is narrowing. Republicans gaining at least 10 seats, and leading in several others that CNN has not called yet.
Former NFL player Burgess Owens flipping his feet in Utah red, with messages like this one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP.-ELECT BURGESS OWENS (R-UT): We find out that BLM.inc is nothing but a Marxist organization.
We all know that all lives matter. Only the leftist, only the godless could never make that an issue, where now people looked at being a racist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So, I spoke with House Majority Whip James Clyburn about the significance of this and Owens election.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC): I'm instructed by history. I, irrespective of what my emotions may be on anything, I studied the history of this country, I studied the history of voting.
Maybe Mr. Owens has never been denied the right to vote. But I remember my parents first were able to register to vote. Maybe you never heard of John Lewis, or if he's ever heard of what it took on Edmund Pettus Bridge to get the right to vote.
And a question I would ask him, whose lives mattered at the Emanuel Church, when nine lives were snuffed out by a young man who said he was trying to start a race war? Do those nine lives matter? I think they do, and that's all black lives matter is all about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: All right. Thanks for joining us.
"AC360" starts now.
