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Erin Burnett Outfront
GSA Tells Biden Transition Can Formally Begin, First Step Trump Admin has Taken to Acknowledge Defeat; GSA Tells Biden that Transition Can Formally Begin as Michigan, Multiple PA Counties Certify Election Results; GSA Tells Biden He Can Finally Begin Formal Transition as Biden Makes Picks for National Security Team & Treasury. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired November 23, 2020 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Trofimena was a telephone switchboard operator who died just a few weeks after her beloved brother at the age of 95. May they rest in peace and may their memories be a blessing.
Erin Burnett OUTFRONT starts right now.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next breaking news, the GSA administrator formally launching the transition as Trump insiders admit it's the end of the road.
Plus, more breaking news, President-elect Biden making picks and history. Among them, Janet Yellen, the first woman to lead the Treasury and markets are liking that news tonight. We'll tell you why.
And a third potential vaccine showing great promise and I'm going to speak to the lead researcher behind that vaccine and ask the question when can you get it. Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
Breaking news, Trump kind of gives in allowing the GSA to begin a formal transition. That is a big setback for him, even as he says, "Our case strongly continues. We will keep up the good fight and I believe we will prevail." Yet moments ago, the key reality, the President says he's recommending his GSA Chief Emily Murphy to begin an initial transition to team Biden.
Now, Trump trying to make it clear, he is calling the shots, so he is recommending this happen, even as Murphy has now sent a letter to the Biden transition team which we have obtained which says in part, "I was never directly or indirectly pressured by any Executive Branch official, including those who work at the White House with regard to the substance or timing of my decision. To be clear, I did not receive any direction to delay my determination."
Well, a top Republican close to the White House tonight telling CNN, "It is over." Glaring wake up call. Another Trump advisor acknowledging to us, "It's the end of the road." Now, the President has no path to victory and just to be clear here, he has not since the election was called for Joe Biden 16 days ago. And tonight, the cards are stacked up against the President even though, of course, he says he will keep fighting and prevail.
The Philadelphia elections officials are meeting as I speak to certify their results. I want to show you live pictures. That is the meeting that is democracy sausage making in process. Once the results are certified, there is no going back, which means President Trump will have officially failed to overturn the results from Pennsylvania and the same is true in Michigan tonight.
Despite personal lobbying from Trump, Republican on the certification board there joined Democrats voting to certify the state's clear results as well. So the winner of Michigan is still Joe Biden. Nearly three weeks and nearly 40 lawsuits, later the winner of the 2020 presidential election is still Joe Biden.
And tonight, a Trump adviser says the President is souring on his longtime personal attorney Rudy Giuliani who's been kind of the standard-bearer of the fight here. He's been handling most of the legal challenges. According to that advisor, Giuliani's efforts are 'looking very bad', which is not just a commentary on Rudy's absurd press conferences at four seasons landscaping and his accusations of a communist plot linked to a dead dictator. It is also his record the facts one in 40 of the nearly 40 lawsuits brought by the President and Republicans to try to challenge the results of this election, they have only one win. Nothing so far altering the vote tally.
As for President Trump, again, no public events on his schedule today. The only thing he's done publicly, of course, just tweeted moments ago saying that he is recommending to the GSA to begin this process even though he'll still prevail. He has sent 332 fundraising emails and 92 text messages to supporters since 11 pm on election night, presumably to fund his legal challenges and who knows where else all the money ends up going, because the challenges, of course, so far have gone absolutely nowhere. Trump's allies increasingly telling him to accept reality.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS CHRISTIE, FORMER GOVERNOR OF NEW JERSEY: The content of the President's legal team has been a national embarrassment.
REP. FRED UPTON (R-MI): The voters spoke and here again in Michigan it's not a razor thin margin. It's 154,000 votes. You got to let those votes stand. It's over.
SEN. PAT TOOMEY (R-PA): Among the most fundamental aspects of our republic and a democratic system is to accept the outcome of elections.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And even Steve Schwarzman, a businessman, Trump confidant, the CEO of the Blackstone Group, he came under pressure from other business leaders after reportedly defending Trump's initial vow to challenge the results of the election. But today he says in a statement, "The outcome is very certain today and the country should move on." But on this Thanksgiving week, the most fitting words, wow, it's
always like this, right, the most fitting words they always come from Trump himself. And this time they come from the 2018 Annual Turkey Pardon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The winner of this vote was decided by a fair and open election conducted on the White House website.
[19:05:06]
This was a fair election. Unfortunately, Carrots refused to concede and demanded a recount and we are fighting with Carrots. And I will tell you we've come to a conclusion, Carrots, I'm sorry to tell you the result did not change. It's too bad for Carrots.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: He's always says it best himself, doesn't he? Kaitlan Collins is OUTFRONT near the White House covering President Trump tonight. Jessica Dean is in Washington covering the Biden transition.
So Kaitlan, let me just start with you with this breaking news at this moment, recommending to the GSA that they move ahead even though the GSA is trying to say, oh, he's not telling us what to do. He's not calling the shots. What is he thinking? Does he recognize this is over?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: He doesn't seem to in that tweet by saying that they're still going to push forward even as they have suffered a string of court losses in just the last 72 hours alone. And Emily Murphy in this letter to the Biden transition team basically says that's part of the reason that played a role in the decision that she made today to move forward and to formalize this transition.
And Erin, what this transition means is that the Biden team is now going to get resources to start with this transition to take over the power of the federal government. But it also means that current Trump officials can start coordinating with the incoming Biden team, because before this, there had been no contact between the two teams. We saw people like Dr. Anthony Fauci, for example, saying that he had not spoken to the President-elect or anyone on his team.
And so the difference is here that you're seeing with what the President is tweeting and what Emily Murphy is saying is the President is saying that even though they're going to push forward with their legal fights, he's saying that he recommended that the GSA make this move.
Though, of course, she says pretty clearly in her letter that she was not pressured by the executive branch or anyone at GSA and she says she came to this decision independently on her own and wanted to wait for the constitutional process to play out. So the underlying message though, of course, is that that process has played out. Joe Biden is going to be the President whether Donald Trump wants to publicly recognize it or not.
But the President saying that he recommended she take this step does not seem to be the situation, because she refutes that pretty clearly in her letter. But what we will see is that coordination starts to take place as you're seeing more and more Republicans urged for this to happen, urged for the President to accept the fact that he lost this election, so that's really the question.
The President's own conduct is the only thing that has not been determined yet here.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Kaitlan.
So now, let's go to Jessica Dean, who's covering the Biden transition. So Jessica, obviously, this become a bigger and bigger issue. There were real ramifications to the delay in terms of National Security and other things. This wasn't just a rhetorical thing, but they had been starting to get a little bit nervous at what point they needed to push to accelerate a little harder. So what is their reaction now that it appears this transition will go ahead?
JESSICA DEAN, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, you can imagine this is welcome news to the Biden transition team. But really, this is less about President Trump ever conceding and more about them to your point, being able to get in and begin the true work of building their transition and moving toward January 20th.
Logistically, it releases millions of dollars for them to get office space for background checks to begin on cabinet nominees. Things like that they were starting to send out emails to supporters thinking they may have to fund their transition themselves. That's what they were saying as of late last week. Well, now, those funds will be released with all of this.
But even more importantly to them, this is about data. This is about information, specifically COVID. They want to be talking to Dr. Fauci. They want to be talking to the people at Health and Human Services, especially when it comes to vaccine distribution plans. They know that that's critical that they're getting that information. They want a full accounting of the National Security interest for the United States.
And Erin, I thought this was interesting directly from the statement, I'll quote it, they want to gain complete understanding of the Trump administration's efforts to hollow out governmental agencies. So the Biden transition team being very sharp with their language there and really believe they have a lot of work to do when it comes to building these agencies back up, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Jessica. And I want to go now to Pennsylvania's Democratic Attorney General, Josh Shapiro. Attorney General, we just showed live pictures of that certification, which would deal the final and formally blow to Trump's efforts there. I believe Philadelphia has just confirmed they have finished, so it is certified, it is done. It is now in the rearview mirror. Is there anything the President can do now to stop it?
JOSH SHAPIRO, (D) PENNSYLVANIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: I don't believe so. This certification process has been playing out all across Pennsylvania successfully and swiftly today. And we have seen over the course of the last several weeks, just multiple lawsuits filed by Donald Trump before the election and then since the election. They've all lacked merit. They've lacked facts. They've been evidence free and they've lost nearly every step of the way.
[19:10:04]
Erin, within the span of about 45 minutes today, they lost an appeal in the Third Circuit and lost a case up at the Pennsylvania Supreme Court. We have rounded the turn, the election is long over and now the transition begins.
BURNETT: So when the President says he's recommending the transition begin, but then continues to add, he is still fighting the fight and he will prevail, which he was very clear to say. Just again, I want to put an emphasis on this, there is no way in the state of Pennsylvania.
SHAPIRO: No. And look, there's no evidence that he'll prevail and no evidence period of any of the kinds of fraud that he's been alleging. The election was fair, it was secure. That's been said by Republicans and Democrats alike all across Pennsylvania.
It would appear that the President is one of the only people in this country that has yet to come to grips with this reality. And the reality is the Joe Biden got more votes than Donald Trump here in Pennsylvania and across the country and earn more Electoral Votes and he'll be sworn in as the President on January the 20th.
BURNETT: So I mentioned earlier, a Trump advisor says that the President is souring on Rudy Giuliani, his longtime personal attorney, who has been his attack dog on everything and obviously the standard- bearer on these legal challenges. According to that advisor, Giuliani's efforts are looking are 'looking very bad'.
Now, obviously, there's the physical nature of it and sort of he was mocked for some of these press conferences.
SHAPIRO: Right.
BURNETT: And there's the failure rate, which is, as I said, about one in 40. What's your experience been, Atty. Gen. Shapiro, fighting Giuliani and this legal team?
SHAPIRO: Well, I mean, he is really just been a sad figure to watch. He shows up with absolutely no evidence to back up the ridiculous claims that his client, the President of the United States, makes on Twitter or wherever he says them. He goes on and on and on. He rambles.
It's a sad and steep decline for someone who is at one point referred to as America's mayor. He's doing a real disservice, I think, to his client and a tremendous disservice to the country by continuing on. Certainly, if he wants to file more lawsuits, we'll be here and we'll beat him every step of the way as we have to protect the will of the people of Pennsylvania and to ensure that their voices at the end of the day are the ones that are heard.
And Erin, really we've reached the end of the day now in this process. And I think Rudy Giuliani and his client need to have a tough talk.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Attorney General, I appreciate your time. Thank you so much.
SHAPIRO: Good to be with you.
BURNETT: All right. Well, out front now one of the nation's preeminent constitutional law scholars, Harvard Law Professor, Laurence Tribe, who was part of Al Gore's legal team in the recount of 2000. So, Professor, a lot to ask you about, especially in light of the Atty. Gen. Shapiro just said about Rudy Giuliani.
But let me ask you first about this breaking news from the GSA, Emily Murphy, Trump appointee said she was not pressured to do anything. Trump obviously seems to be very clearly taking credit. I recommended she do this. I am the one calling the shots. You have been very clear that this withholding of a transition from the GSA and Emily Murphy as the chief could have been in violation of federal law. Do you believe any laws were broken in this delay?
LAURENCE TRIBE, HARVARD LAW PROFESSOR: I do think that laws were broken in this delay, but I think the important thing now is to move forward. Whether it is her decision or Trump's decision doesn't matter. The fact is that we're now fully into the transition and all of the harm she has done, which cannot be undone. A lot of people, I think, will die because she dragged her feet as much as she did. But I feel like celebrating.
I mean, we now know for sure, as we knew before, but now it's without the slightest doubt that Joe Biden is the President-elect. He will be the President of the United States. He's forming his cabinet. He is governing more from outside the government, than our pathetic president is from within the government and it's very clear that there are no options left.
And I do want to say that we shouldn't simply focus on the ineptitude of his lawyers. It's not as though if he'd had a better legal team. He could have done anything. When you don't have a case, no facts, no law, you can get the best lawyers in the world, you're not going to win.
The reason he's lost 39 out of 40 cases isn't just the Giuliani and Sidney Powell were so stupid, it's because they had no hands to play.
BURNETT: It's a significant point. It's one of those I know what you're saying is obvious but yet it isn't clearly said often, so I think it's really important that you say it. But I'm curious Professor about where all the money is going to go. Because when I was saying Trump's schedule is pretty much always empty and today he didn't even tweet until he made this comment about the GSA. [19:15:06]
Since election night at 11 o'clock, he and his campaign have sent 332 fundraising emails, 92 fundraising text messages. All right. That is a lot of money that has been coming in and they've been saying this is for their legal defense. Well, then the money is still there. What can Trump use this money for? Are we ever going to know?
TRIBE: Well, we got to find out whether he is defrauding all of the people that is fleecing for all this money. Clearly, even at 20,000 bucks a day Giuliani can't consume it all. It's going to go into Trump's pockets, it's going to go to fund future campaigns that he's going to run. It's going to go to bail him out to some degree, but he is in such deep debt that even with all the money he has fraudulently raised from people, supposedly for his defense, although the footnotes say that he's going to keep six cents out of every 10 for himself in one way or another.
With all of that money, he is clearly going to do something out there, whether it's starting a new network, whatever it is, he's going to be out of the White House, but he's not going to be out of our hair. He's going to be present in our minds.
And I would love to just be able to forget the guy, because it's hard to sleep as long as he's around but he is hard to forget. He's going to be out there stirring up violence, stirring up disagreement with the election. He's going to claim we were stabbed in the back, even though all these courts have said that he had no case.
A lot of people will believe him when he says that even though they were Republicans, even though he appointed some of these judges, that somehow they didn't understand the truth.
BURNETT: So you and I've talked about pardons and you talked about how you thought he could pardon his family, but pardoning himself would be an unprecedented and possibly much more complicated thing. But as this moves forward, a transition moves forward, whether he publicly concedes or not, he is going to leave, he has a decision to make about pardoning himself ahead of any possible legal challenges. Will he be able to do that as you've continued to analyze this?
TRIBE: I still believe that the constitution doesn't allow self pardon. The very language says you grant a pardon. If it included pardoning yourself, you wouldn't grant yourself a pardon. You would simply say, pardon me.
But even though we may try to pardon himself, I assume that courts will keep in mind that 400 years of history point the other way. But whether he tries that or not, whether he tries to get Pence to pardon him, he's not going to be able to extend a pardon or get a pardon vis- a-vis the prosecutions that await him in New York State and by the Manhattan District Attorney, those await no matter what he does.
BURNETT: Professor Tribe, thank you very much. I appreciate your time this evening.
TRIBE: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, Trump's former Defense Secretary with a message for the President-elect, abandon America first. Will Biden take Jim Mattis' advice?
Plus, another potential coronavirus vaccine showing promise tonight and this one may also prevent transmission. Something you may have thought was kind of guaranteed with a vaccine but not so. So that's significant about this vaccine and I'm going to speak to the lead doctor behind it.
And another recount of Georgia, votes just hours away, really the third recount. The Lieutenant Governor is with me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:22:18]
BURNETT: It took the GSA two weeks to tell Joe Biden he could formally begin his transition, so we couldn't get clearances, didn't have money, couldn't talk to a single person in the Trump administration. So he's blocked from doing all of that, but he didn't miss a moment in terms of using his time. He's been assembling his team and today announcing a whole slew of the people he wants to be in his inner circle.
We have confirmed Biden will nominate Janet Yellen as the first female Chair of the Federal Reserve as Treasury Secretary. Also announced today, Biden saying several other picks let's go through them here. National Security team Anthony Blinken for Secretary of State, Linda Thomas-Greenfield for UN Ambassador, Avril Haines who would become the first female National Intelligence Director, Alejandro Mayorkas who would become the first Latino Secretary of Homeland Security and Jake Sullivan as National Security Adviser.
And on top of all of this, all of this announced, President Trump's former Defense Secretary Jim Mattis, making a plea to Biden's team as part of a joint op-ed in which he wrote in part and I quote, "In practice, 'America first' has meant 'America alone'. We hope they will quickly revise the national security strategy to eliminate 'America First', from its contents, restoring in its place the commitment to cooperative security that has served the United States so well for decades."
OUTFRONT now CNN Senior Political Analyst John Avlon and Staff Writer for The New Yorker Susan Glasser. OK. Thanks very much to both of you.
So John, look, obviously, you want to come out with all these names at once to say your blocked us over transition, but I've moved ahead with a whole lot of things. A lot of these would be history making nominees. Every one of them, though, is a polar opposite from what Trump did and would do in those spots.
JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Absolutely, and I think the headline Biden team is looking for is make government work again. The contrast is with the unique Trumpian cocktail of incompetence and chaos that has defined this administration.
And notably, this is not a team of rivals approach. These are people who are deeply experienced, they've got credibility in some cases across the aisle, but they've got a record of working well together. And I think that speaks to how Biden is approaching this, a team that's ready to work on day one and restore our country to historic commitments in the case of the national security team, almost exactly like Jim Mattis was saying, a commitment to international institutions with America leading in the world and the message there is America is back again. We're no longer going to alienate our allies and embrace our enemies.
BURNETT: And Susan, how hard is that going to be? They're going to announce this team and they're gonna go full steam ahead and you hear the Attorney General and Professor Tribe talking about you're going to have Trump out there.
[19:25:03]
He's not going away. He's going to be there. He's going to be doing everything he can to stymie this and many millions of people perhaps supporting him. So what's the Biden's strategy to combat that and to get the whole world to say, look, this country's changed.
SUSAN GLASSER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, Erin, I think you're really right. It's a very difficult thing. It's much easier to say, hey, we're back. They're going to be much more popular.
Remember, when Obama came in after George W. Bush, the numbers spiked, hundreds of thousands of people greeted him in Germany. Joe Biden will be similarly greeted with open arms by our Western European allies. They're tired of being treated as adversaries instead of allies. I do think you'll see a much more positive surround sound.
He said on day one and this team of Tony Blinken and Jake Sullivan will absolutely rejoin, say, international institutions and treaties that the U.S. has pulled out from such as the Paris climate accord on day one. With that being said, it's a lot easier to improve the atmospherics than to deal with the structural problem that the world has realized that the U.S. is so sharply divided.
There's a real question about how much you can count on our word anymore. If you make an Iran deal with Joe Biden, once again, if we rejoin that deal, what's to stop the United States from changing course in four years? Once again, that's exactly what happened the last time we made a deal.
BURNETT: Yes. I mean, these are really serious questions and as you point out, it's not just, OK, you can flip a switch and everything is back to 'normal again'. And it's also not even going to maybe be this easy, John, a lot of those names I went through right need approval. They've got to get Senate approval and some top Republicans have been silent about the nominations. McConnell, no comment. The Foreign Relations Chairman, Risch, no comment. Marco Rubio, Acting Chairman of the Senate Intel committee, no comment.
So why that silence? Is that somehow related to still wanting to placate Trump?
AVLON: This is a party that has been utterly spineless during an attempt to overturn a Democratic election. That silence can almost be read not only as fear of Trump, but it's not particularly adversarial. Each of these folks will be judged individually and no one should be pollyannish. Republicans are going to do what Republicans do.
But I think the silence to date says more about what they've done until the GSA announcement, which is about damn time. Their complete fear of standing up to Donald Trump and standing up for principles, then blocking this transition, which now many are acknowledging as real.
But remember, we still have more foreign leaders who've congratulated President-elect Biden than Republican senators. Let's see if that ratio changes over the next 24 hours.
BURNETT: And so Susan, some of these names are familiar to people. Some of them are new, but some of them are familiar, even if not in the roles they're in now, because of President Obama. These are names that have been around before and here's what the former president had to say about some of these national security picks today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There's been some damage done that is going to take some time to dig ourselves out of, but there's no doubt that Joe's got the right people to do it. And I have every confidence they'll be able to do it, it just may not happen instantaneously.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So Susan, I mean, part of this, the appeal of Biden to his supporters is the continuance of Obama in some ways. President Obama has confidence in many of these individuals, because he knows them, they served under him. Is that a good thing or is it also possibly a problem if Biden's team looks a lot like Obama 2.0?
GLASSER: Well, look, the world moves on and it wouldn't be possible to turn back the clock, even if they wanted to. I think a key asset that this new national security team has is not only that they have experience working together under President Obama, but many of them are directly Biden loyalists.
Tony Blinken has worked with former Vice President Joe Biden when he was on Capitol Hill, when he was the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and then when he was Vice President. When he travels around the world, I think leaders will have a strong confidence that (inaudible) Blinken speaks for the President of the United States, which was never true for Trump and his Secretaries of State.
BURNETT: Not in any of those cases. I know we all had, I'm sure, many conversations with people around the world would say, well, I don't know Rex Tillerson said it. It means nothing to me. All right. Thank you both very much. I appreciate your time.
And next, coronavirus hospitalizations, an all time high in the United States as many millions of Americans appear to ignoring the CDC's warning to stay home for Thanksgiving.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: The chances are that you will see a surge superimposed upon a surge.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And the Trump campaign insisting on another recount in Georgia after the state just completed a recount.
[19:30:04]
What is the point?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Breaking news: The U.S. reporting a record-breaking 85,000 plus people hospitalized with coronavirus. New cases also skyrocketing, 150,000 new ones reported as of tonight. The 21st day in a row with more than 100,000 new cases.
And Dr. Anthony Fauci warning things could be about to get much worse. Why? Well, in part because more than 1 million people passed through TSA yesterday, the most travelers since the start of the pandemic.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: If, in fact, you're in a situation when you do the things that are increasing the risk, the travel, the congregant setting, not wearing masks, the chances are that you will see a surge superimposed upon a surge.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: A surge superimposed on a surge. Just all the more tragic because vaccines are coming. Not in time to save any of those lives, though. We are, though, getting encouraging news on the vaccine front.
[19:35:02]
AstraZeneca and researchers at Oxford University say their vaccine shows an average efficacy of 70 percent in human trials with participants suffering -- no participants, I'm sorry, suffering severe cases of the virus, and there's also a crucial thing here that it could prevent transmission.
So, let's get to the bottom of it now with Professor Adrian Hill, the lead researcher for Oxford's vaccine trials. Professor, you and I spoke a lot through the spring here. You were optimistic, and now here we are, you know, with these results. And I want to get straight to this so you can explain the bottom line here.
I know you had two different dosing schedules. So when you gave a participant half a dose, my understanding is it was 90 percent efficacy, and then when you got a full dose a month later, 62 percent efficacy with the two full doses among the parts. So tell me what all that means, why you average it, why don't you just go with the single dose that's 90 percent effective? Put it in English for us.
ADRIAN HILL, LEAD RESEARCHER FOR OXFORD'S VACCINE TRIAL: Sure. Well, it's great to be back, Erin. You're quite right. We used two different immunization ratios in this large phase three trial of about 22,000 people across the U.K. and Brazil. And what we discovered yesterday when we analyzed the data for the first time is that there is a difference in how effective the two regimens were. The standard two- dose regime gave an efficacy of only 63 percent.
But when we gave a half dose first and then a full dose second, the efficacy was 90 percent. Now, that's intriguing, and the mechanism isn't immediately obvious. But it has several advantages. Firstly, obviously, higher efficacy. Secondly, dose sparing, in a situation where the world doesn't have enough vaccine, giving a half dose helps. And thirdly, the main reason we did it at the time was to make the vaccine better tolerated by giving half a dose the first time.
So, it looks like this could really be the sweet spot, this vaccine regime. And certainly, we're going to take that forward, explore its mechanism in more detail and go to regulators saying this is our preferred regime.
BURNETT: Right. So let me ask you another thing, because you also have data that shows you may actually be able to reduce transmission of the virus. So, you know, and by that, you kept testing participants to see for asymptomatic infections, you saw the numbers drop as well. On the issue of transmission, again, I want to emphasize this, because as laypeople when we hear a vaccine works, we all may have the implicit assumption, I don't get it, not just that I don't get sick, but I'm not transmitting it to others.
That clearly is not necessarily a fact. So please explain how significant it is that it may reduce transmission itself.
HILL: Absolutely. A little bit of background. A lot of infections come from other people who are totally well and don't know that they are infected. That's very clear. So what can you do about that? Well, the best solution is to vaccinate a large proportion of the population, to stop people getting silently or so-called asymptomatically infected.
Now, in previous two trials to our understanding did not measure asymptomatic infection, because frankly, that's a lot of work. What you have to do is invite your participants to swab their noses and throats every week, typically, for months on end, send in those swaps to a centralized lab, and we have 10,000 or more of those swabs analyzed in Oxford.
What we see is pretty encouraging efficacy against asymptomatic infection, and if you're not -- if you have no virus detectable in your throat, you're not going to transmit to anybody else. This is really a first evidence with any vaccine that vaccines can do this. They can prevent people transmitting virus to other people. And that's really important in an outbreak or a pandemic situation where you're seeking to control the virus and get rid of it.
BURNETT: Yeah, oh, absolutely, absolutely. I think you just explained very clearly how, you know, we all made that assumption but it was an assumption. It would be very significant if it didn't actually just prevent someone from getting sick but from getting others sick.
Professor Hill, thank you very much. I appreciate your time tonight.
HILL: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, they're about to count the votes in Georgia a third time. Given what we have just learned about the GSA moving forward with the transition, should this recount go ahead? Well, the lieutenant governor of Georgia is OUTFRONT next.
And Trump's recount efforts have targeted big cities, not suburbs. What's the difference between the two?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:43:19]
BURNETT: Breaking news: even as the GSA has formally begun the transition of President-elect Joe Biden, Georgia is set to begin its second recount at 9:00 a.m. tomorrow. That recount, of course, happening at President Trump's team's request.
So, if you are a little confused because you say, didn't Georgia just do a recount? Well, you are correct, they did just do a recount, and Georgia's Republican secretary of state said that hand recount netted President Trump 496 more votes. Joe Biden obviously is still the winner of Georgia.
OUTFRONT now, Geoff Duncan, the Republican lieutenant governor of the state of Georgia.
And I appreciate your time, Lieutenant Governor.
So, let me just start here with that recount. The GSA moments ago, right, finally saying they're ready to begin the formal transition process with President-elect Biden. Has that -- does that mean anything for the recount. Have you heard from the Trump campaign about the recount? Is it still happening?
LT. GOV. GEOFF DUNCAN (R), GEORGIA: We continue to follow the letter of the law here in Georgia, and certainly, we had the election itself and had the early results come back. Then we were performed, as the law provides for, a risk-limiting audit, which turned out to be a full hand count of the presidential vote, which was 5 million votes.
And then, of course, now that the margins are so close, within a half a percent, a candidate is allowed to ask for another recount, which is going to be a machine recount, which I believe starts at 9:00 a.m. tomorrow morning.
So, outside the purview of any sort of ongoing conversations around GSA, we will continue to follow the letter of the law here in Georgia.
BURNETT: And so, again, just so people, because people really do want to know the timing of these things. It matters so much. The hand recount, that was a involved process by definition, hand. When you say machine recount, it starts at 9:00 a.m. tomorrow.
How quickly will we know the outcome from that?
[19:45:01]
DUNCAN: Yeah, I would refer you back to the secretary of state's office, Brad Raffensperger, they're doing a really, really good job of working well, communicating. You know, certainly, it will take a little bit of time, but it will be quicker than the hand recount. We have 159 counties in Georgia, which is an abnormally large number of counties so each one has their own election process that they work through.
BURNETT: All right. So, let me ask you about the Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, because he says of this GSA, right, the GSA, the chief of the GSA, says she has made this decision. The president tweeted about it, that he recommended she do that. He's continuing with all his challenges. He's sure he will prevail, but you know, he recommends she begin this transition.
Chuck Schumer says, quote, this is probably the closest thing to a concession that President Trump could issue. Do you agree? Is this the closest thing to a concession that we'll get?
DUNCAN: Well, I caught the quick word when I came in to the studio that the president had made those comments. I respect the decision to start the transition process.
You know, I think it's one that's important for us to make sure that we are an orderly nation. I also think for the Republican Party, this is, you know, a starting point or at least points us in the direction of starting to talk about what potentially GOP 2.0 looks like. You know, because there's a little bit of a crossroads going on.
The top of the ticket obviously did not win at this point, does not look that way. But we watched Republican legislatures all over the country continue to strengthen their majorities. We watched Congress become even more Republican and gain seats.
So I think we're going to begin that conversation over the coming weeks and months about what it looks like. You know, I think for me, the middle, the moderates, really enjoy the policies out there that President Trump has put forward. Understand, you know, the things that we're doing. I just think at the end of the day, they just don't like the way he's communicated and we'll certainly have that conversation.
BURNETT: Yeah, when you say GOP 2.0, and you're talking about the split of the ticket, I mean, what is it you're saying? It's not a policy point but you're saying a repudiation of the person, right? Trump himself, Trumpism, not necessarily all policies, is that what you're saying?
DUNCAN: Yeah, I think it's an important opportunity for us to continue to get better. Good the top of the ticket is not going to win this election and we're going to have Vice President Biden is going to be sworn in as the 46th president, and we've got an opportunity to put forward.
You know, here in Georgia, we got two Senate races. I think they're extremely important, not just for us here in Georgia but for all Republicans nationally looking at an opportunity to put a firewall up against any bad ideas like higher taxes on small business owners, any chance to remove resources from law enforcement officers. Things that I think are nonnegotiable bad ideas.
So, we're going to work hard on that, and GOP 2.0 is just an opportunity to get better. And certainly, we're all going to be a part of that.
BURNETT: So, I spoke with a longtime Republican donor, Dan Eberhart, and he's deeply concerned about the president and how he's handled all this. He thought it was terrible for the Republican brand, OK, and he spoke in even more strenuous words than that, but he said that specifically.
He said that that this whole issue, this delay, the way the president is handling it, has hurt Georgia's Republicans. And you're talking about down ticket, these two Senate races that you now have in Georgia are going to determine the split in the U.S. Senate. This is crucial.
Here's how Mr. Eberhart put it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAN EBERHART, GOP DONOR: As a Republican, what's best for us is to make Mitch McConnell the strongest we can, which is to win those two seats down in Georgia, and what's best for the country is to prepare to hand Joe Biden the keys.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So would you agree with that analysis, and now that the GSA transition has begun, is this good in terms of the focus on your Senatorial races?
DUNCAN: Yeah. You know, Georgia is a red state. All eight statewide constitutional officers are Republicans. We have both the state senate and the state house are Republican majorities.
And so, I look forward to making sure we do all we can do to get Senator Loeffler and Senator Perdue re-elected. I certainly think Georgia is a conservative state and one that, you know, a state that appreciates conservative leadership. Governor Kemp has been a great leader throughout the pandemic process, continues to be -- if not the lowest, one of the lowest unemployment rates. We continue to find that crucial balance between lives and livelihoods.
And so, I certainly think Georgia is a conservative state and we're going to move forward as hard as we can. But, Erin, at the end of the day, I voted for President Trump. I campaigned for President Trump. I supported an overwhelming number of his policies. And so did millions of other Americans.
I think at the end of the day, folks are just -- they're not comfortable with the way he communicated, at least those 10 percent in the middle, and certainly, we're going to keep working hard in Georgia to make sure we keep the firewall in in the Senate.
BURNETT: All right. We'll see what happens. Thank you very much, Lieutenant Governor. I appreciate your time.
DUNCAN: Thank you very much.
BURNETT: And tonight, nearly 250 million spent on advertising for those two Senate runoffs in Georgia. Why do Democrats think they have a chance at not one but both of those seats, and in what the lieutenant governor says is a red state, but it just went blue.
Kyung Lah is OUTFRONT.
[19:50:02]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): To understand how Georgia flipped from Republican to Democrat, take a trip to Henry County, and meet the women who represent a rapidly changing state.
They are the Henry County Democratic women, gathering for a paint and sip.
Carlota Harrell moved to this Atlanta suburb 25 years ago.
What did it look like?
CARLOTTA HARRELL (D), CHAIR, BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS: It was predominantly a white community.
LAH: Cherice Hollis is more than 10 years ago.
CHERICE HOLLIS, PRESIDENT, HENRY COUNTY DEMOCRATIC WOMEN: My state representative did not look like me. My other elected officials, they did not look like me.
LAH: Not anymore. Half of the county's population is now black and Hispanic, and more liberal. Like many of Atlanta suburbs, Henry County's population has boomed. Thanks to low cost of living and job growth in tech and transportation, and that's affected its politics.
HOLLIS: People want change, and so what they're doing is getting more involved, in participating the change.
LAH: The numbers back her up. In 2016, Hillary Clinton edged out Donald Trump by just 3-1/2 points in Henry. Four years later, Joe Biden won by 20 points.
HARRELL: We have Republicans for Biden here in Georgia.
LAH: Harrell ran for office herself, losing the county seat to a Republican in 2016. But this year --
HARRELL: I ran again, and I won this election by almost 60 percent of the vote.
JON OSSOFF (D), GEORGIA U.S. SENATE CANDIDATE: Change has come to Georgia, change is coming to America.
HARRELL: The Democratic challenger for Georgia Senate seats, Jon Ossoff and Reverend Raphael Warnock, say their campaigns signify a new South, focusing on the urban center. In 2016, Cobb County, a former GOP stronghold, gave Hillary Clinton 48.9 percent of the vote, a 2- point victory over Donald Trump. In 2020, Joe Biden widened the gap by double digits, 14 points.
College educated, more liberal voters like Holly Adams, tilted the county blue.
HOLLY ADAMS, COBB COUNTY RESIDENT: You're getting a more diverse group, not necessarily racially but just ideologically diverse. I think that's making a big difference.
LAH: But the states conservative roots, run deep.
SEN. KELLY LOEFFLER (R-GA): We're not going to let them take Georgia.
LAH: The Grand Old Party still prevails everywhere, except for Georgia's largest metro area.
Fifty-six thousand more voters outside the nine counties in the Atlanta area cast their ballots for President Trump this year than in 2016. Historically in runoffs, Republican voters show up, and they pledge that their incumbent Senators Kelly Loeffler, and David Perdue will win, with the funding and support of national Republicans on their side.
LAH: A lot of people are exhausted after this election.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're not, as Republicans were ready to go, we are ready to fight with our president and will win.
(END VIDEOTAPE) LAH (voice-over): In 2008, in the last Senate runoffs, the Democrat lost to the Republican by double digits, in large part, because Democrats did not show up -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Kyung, thank you very much.
And next, as the transition now has officially been going forward, President Trump appears to be souring on his Attorney Rudy Giuliani, who literally, hold on for this one, after leaving the whole legal strategy, right, just admitted that he's exaggerating some of his claims of voter fraud.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Breaking news, as the GSA finally allows President-elect Joe Biden to begin his transition.
[19:55:02]
And Team Trump's efforts to overturn have failed. President Trump's top lawyer Rudy Giuliani, the same Rudy Giuliani who repeatedly claim that ballots were improperly counted just basically said there is mass fraud, his words fraud everywhere.
Well, guess what? He's now come out and said he exaggerated, that he exaggerated -- that he exaggerated a little bit.
So he's admitting that when he talks about fraud (ph).
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S LAWYER: The only place maybe worse is Michigan, particular the city of Detroit. The city of Detroit probably had more voters than had citizens. I'm exaggerating a bit, but all you have to do is look at statistical data. And you can see, the fraud was rampant and out of control.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OK, you don't exaggerate a little bit about a claim like that, a clean that has been amplified by the president, who days ago said in Detroit, there are far more votes than people, nothing can be done to cure that giant scam. I win Michigan.
Rudy Giuliani saying, well, that -- that crucial part of it, the more voters than people part is an exaggeration. This, after an adviser to President Trump tells CNN tonight, that Trump is losing patience with Giuliani and souring on him.
OUTFRONT now, Democratic congressman from Florida, Val Demings, who sits on the House Judiciary and Intelligence Committee.
And, Congresswoman, I want to ask you about that, but first, the GSA news breaking this hour, 16 days after the election, now finally starting the transition process, finally.
What do you say?
REP. VAL DEMINGS (D-FL): Well, Erin, it's good to be back with you.
And, look, that is excellent news, a little late but good news is always welcome. And it is about time, you've heard over the last few days the concern about our national security, and it really is the most important concern, because it is the foundation on which we build everything else in this country. So, regardless, of whose idea it was, it was welcome news to hear the GSA say, that the Biden transition team can begin their very critical work.
BURNETT: So, now, Giuliani, I want to be clear the state of Michigan, the president personally lobbied these Republican, you know, canvas leaders, right? It didn't work, right? They have certified with the Democrats, all of them certify the results, 150,000-plus margin in the state of Michigan. This wasn't close.
And now, Giuliani just came, on you heard him, and say this whole about more voters than people was a bit of an exaggeration, right? Even though the president of United States had gone out and said it like a fact, again and again and again.
Here's something that Rudy Giuliani, said this again and again, right, here's what he said just a couple days ago at a news conference.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GIULIANI: The only surprise I would have found in this, is if Philadelphia hadn't cheated in this election, because for the last 60 years, they've cheated in just about every single election. You could say the same thing about Detroit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So Detroit and Philadelphia -- by the way, Philadelphia tonight certifying it's done, right? Pennsylvania is done as well, so not true in either case. But he came out and said this again, and again, and now he admits oh, a bit of an exaggeration?
DEMINGS: Well, Erin, you know let me start off with this. Of course, the president has every right to due process, however, regardless of who you are, you have to have evidence of wrongdoing. And it has been clear, since November 3rd, that the president's legal team has absolutely zero evidence of any wrongdoing.
You know how desperate can you get? It is very disappointing to hear even Rudy Giuliani, say that there's been massive fraud for 60 years. That it's just blatantly obvious, and when he's particularly talking about predominantly black and brown communities, talking about Philadelphia, Atlanta, Detroit.
But the bottom line is they lost, and the president has one more opportunity, to faithfully execute the duties of his office by conceding and participating in the peaceful transfer of power, and cooperating with President-elect Joe Biden's transition team.
BURNETT: Congresswoman, what -- do you believe that he will formally concede is the tonight the closest we got?
DEMINGS: I would believe tonight is probably the closest that we were going to get, but, Erin, that's a start. And what we really need is for the GSA, and other cabinet officials to start cooperating with the Biden administration. So they can get much critical information that is needed to keep our country safe.
And so, if that's the closest we get, I'll take that, just so the Biden-Harris team are able to get the information that they need.
BURNETT: All right. Congresswoman Demings, as always, appreciate your time. Thank you.
DEMINGS: Thank you.
BURNETT: And thanks so much to all of you.
Anderson starts now.
