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Erin Burnett Outfront
Sources: Trump Pushing For Special Counsel Appointments To Probe His Baseless Voter Fraud Claims And Hunter Biden; Senators Clash At Hearing On Election "Irregularities"; Interview With Sen. Gary Peters (D-MI); CNN: Trump Weighs Pardons For More Than Two Dozen In His Orbit; Biden Expected To Get Vaccine Publicly Early Next Week, Vice President Pence Will Be Vaccinated Publicly Friday; Georgia GOP Senate Candidate Trades More Stock Than Any Senator. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired December 16, 2020 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM. You can always follow me on Twitter and Instagram @WOLFBLITZER. Tweet the show @CNNSITROOM.
Erin Burnett OUTFRONT starts right now.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next, Trump is throwing an effing temper tantrum. That is a quote from an advisor as the President talks about not leaving the White House and appointing his own special counsel on election fraud.
Plus, Trump now considering pardons for more than two dozen of his closest allies. So many requests for pardons, he's got a spreadsheet to keep track. Who's on the list?
And Biden announcing he'll get vaccinated next week as the White House says Mike Pence will do it this Friday and on camera. So what about Trump? Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, revenge. President Trump tonight wants the Justice Department to help him get even with his political enemies pushing extensively, we are learning tonight, for the Acting Attorney General, Jeffrey Rosen, to name two special counsels. And CNN also learning that the President is now asking those around him if he himself can appoint the special counsels. The answer is no. No, he cannot, according to Justice Department rules, so we need to have a pliant attorney general to do so.
Facts and laws, of course, don't seem to matter to Trump. He wants one special counsel to investigate Joe Biden's son, Hunter, and the other to investigate the President's baseless claims of election fraud. In the case of Hunter Biden, there's already an investigation. In the case of the election, the Justice Department, the Department of Homeland Security, the Supreme Court, courts across this country, all of the states, the list goes on and on. There's no there there.
Trump doesn't care about the truth. We all know that this is now about one thing and one thing only and that is revenge against the man he sees as his enemy, Joseph R. Biden. And it comes as sources tell CNN that the President has pulled a 180, no longer privately 'getting the joke' not that it was ever funny. But he used to privately accept the reality that he lost the election. But now, no.
He's now starting to believe his own lies that the election was stolen and this comes while some thought this talk of a rigged election was just talk, it was all about making money. Go get a radio show, make a lot of money because you never had as much as you said you had, stay relevant, be a kingmaker, that's what it was all about. But after 39 days and roughly 1,100 tweets mostly false claims about the election and this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The election was rigged.
So many votes was stolen.
We won the election easily.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: He now believes that so much so that Trump has told some advisors that he may not leave the White House on inauguration day. Literally saying such a thing, putting words to the sentiment. And one advisor telling CNN, "He's throwing an effing temper tantrum. He's going to leave. He's just lashing out."
OK. That description is the behavior of a person not right in the mind, let's just say it is like it is, temper tantrums, lashing out, talking about not leaving the White House. Trump is not four, he's 74 and despite his increasingly deranged delusions, he still has the power to instill cowering and fear and sycophancy and others, like the Republican Chairman of the Senate Homeland Security Committee who actually held a hearing today about something that did not impact the election, fraud. A hearing that should never have even taken place, according to Trump's own former top election security official, Chris Krebs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTOPHER KREBS, FMR. DIRECTOR, CYBERSECURITY AND INFRASTRUCTURE SECURITY AGENCY: I think we're past the point where we need to be having conversations about the outcome of this election. I think that continued assault on democracy and the outcome of this election that only serves to undermine confidence in the process is ultimately as you both have said, ultimately corrosive to the institutions that support elections.
We need everyone across the leadership ranks to stand up. I think I would appreciate more support from my own party, the Republican Party to call this stuff out and end it in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Those words, though, meant nothing to the Republican Chairman Ron Johnson, who held the hearing to begin with and then allowed dangerous lies that have been put to rest again and again and again to get an airing in front of this crucial committee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): But the fraud happened, the election in many ways was stolen.
KENNETH STARR, GOP'S STAR WITNESS DURING HEARING ON ELECTION: Some of these concerns are how did dead people vote, accepting that allegation from Nevada? It is because of inadequate safeguard. Something the dead person didn't walk into the ballot - into the voting booth and vote.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OK. Used to expect better of Sen. Paul, but there is, just to be clear here, no evidence to back up what he said or what Ken Starr said. Trump's Attorney General Bill Barr even investigated, if you didn't trust his own Homeland Security cyber chief, Bill Barr had an investigation on the Department of Justice, which found nothing. Nothing.
[19:05:04]
Now reminder, Bill Barr is now the former Attorney General because of that for having the temerity to say no, there was no fraud that impacted the election. Conspiracy total and completely fabricated narratives ruled Congress today and it ended up causing some chaos.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: We're not going to be able to just move on without bringing up these irregularities examining them and providing an explanation and see where there really are problems so we can correct it moving forward, Sen. Paul.
SEN. GARY PETERS (D-MI): Mr. Chairman, I got to respond to that. I mean, you're saying I'm putting out information ...
JOHNSON: Trying.
PETERS: ... well, one, I didn't have nothing to do with this report (inaudible) ...
JOHNSON: You lied repeatedly.
PETERS: I did not author this.
JOHNSON: You lied repeatedly in the press, that was spreading Russian disinformation and that was an outright lie and I told you to stop lying and you continue to do it.
PETERS: Mr. Chairman, this is not about airing your grievances. I don't know what rabbit hole you're running down (inaudible) ...
JOHNSON: You talked about Russia (inaudible) ... PETERS: (Inaudible) rabbit holes.
JOHNSON: Sen. Paul. Sen. Paul.
PETERS: This is simply not what we're dealing with.
JOHNSON: Sen. Paul.
PETERS: Mr. Chairman, you can't make these false allegations ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Judge Starr (ph) ...
PETERS: ... and then drop it in there. That is why this committee ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sen. Paul.
PETERS: ... needs to return back to (inaudible) ...
(CROSSTALK)
PETERS: This is terrible what you're doing to this committee.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: All right. In a moment, I'm going to speak to Sen. Gary Peters, who you just saw there and heard behind that black mask. There is one really important thing to say here though, just to state the obvious and that is that the Homeland Security Committee today spent three and a half hours investigating something that did not impact the election, instead of three and a half hours on what could be the biggest ever cyber attack in American history. One that compromised the top echelons of our government.
In this regard, too, they echoed their dear leader who has not taken on that cyber attack on this country and today was once again silent as thousands more Americans died of the virus. Trump tweeting today only about the hearing and that election fraud that didn't happen.
Kaitlan Collins is OUTFRONT live near the White House. And Kaitlan, you broke the news about the President's push to get special counsels appointed? How far is he willing to go and given that he cannot do these appointments himself, will others listen to him? Will it happen?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's the big question and, of course, the only person that matters that listens to the President about his intent to get these special counsels which we have told he is set on getting before he does leave office in five weeks from today is, of course, the attorney general. So while you noted, our reporting shows the President has asked people if he can appoint a special counsel, DOJ rules is that the attorney general must do it.
And of course, we are about to see a change in the leadership at the Justice Department and the new person who's taking over from Bill Barr when he steps down a week from today is Jeffrey Rosen, his deputy. And he just gave an interview to Reuters where, Erin, he declined to say one way or another whether he would appoint these special counsels that the President wants. And instead, he said I think of it a little bit like a developer with a punch list, we're going to try to finish the work we're here to do. And he added, let's continue on the course we've had.
So it could be that last sentence that is really telling of what he intends to do. And so that would lead us to the question of if he does not appoint these special counsels like the President wants to investigate those baseless allegations of voter fraud and to do an investigation into Hunter Biden, which we've already noted is underway, the Justice Department right now, would the President then fire Jeff Rosen from that job leaving the Justice Department?
And there's no obvious successor, I'm told, that's why the President was so hesitant to get rid of Barr when he wanted to do so before Barr, of course, agreed to resign. And so that's still really the big question. But I think what's important here is that the President is intent on getting these things done before he leaves office and one of the main reasons we're told he wants these special counsels is because he views it as payback for the Mueller investigation and what he believes he went through with that special counsel.
BURNETT: All right. Kaitlan, thank you very much. And I want to go now, as I said, to the man you there on that clip, the top Democrat on the Senate, Homeland Security Committee, Sen. Gary Peters.
Senator, I really appreciate your time. And everyone saw that that exchange between you and Chairman Johnson, three and a half hours today you spent in a hearing on fraud that did not impact the election. Tonight, the President pushing extensively for a special counsel to investigate the fraud that did not impact the election. Your reaction, Senator?
SEN. GARY PETERS (D-MI): Yes. This is just all ridiculous and it just has to stop. The President has been making these false allegations right from the start. What we heard today in the hearing, there were folks that are basically just restating the statements and allegations that we have to be clear. They've been before courts all across the country. I think it's roughly 60 court cases that heard these arguments and they thrown them out or they've been withdrawn. There is no basis here.
You've got to actually have facts and they don't have facts and that's what's so disturbing, though, is that it still has a very damaging and corrosive impact on this democracy.
[19:10:00]
We heard Mr. Krebs, you showed a clip from him and his testimony, that really the ultimate aim here is to try to delegitimize an election and have people not believe in the system. And we know that elections are absolutely fundamental to our Democratic republic. People have to trust an election, they have to understand that their candidate either won or lost, and then there's a peaceful transfer of power.
And when you have a President of the United States making the kinds of statements that President Trump is making, we've seen people make those kinds of statements before (inaudible) to be authoritarians who want to basically dismantle, if there's a Democratic government there to begin with, to dismantle that and instill themselves in an autocratic government.
This is scary, this is dangerous and we have to speak out against it.
BURNETT: So what do you think is happening? I mean, Sen. Rand Paul should know better, yet he's been a real leader on this issue. And then Republican Senator Josh Hawley today came out. He would not rule out joining a House member and actually trying to challenge the election on the floor when it comes to the beginning of January.
Even though the Senate Majority Leader, Mitch McConnell, and I want to be clear here, he told Republicans in the Senate not to do that. Stop, guys, this is over. Drop it. That was what Mitch McConnell finally said. So it took him 38 days. The point is he said it and they're not all going with it now. Hawley said today, I'm going to do my due diligence and we'll say.
Do you worry who's in control of the Senate GOP, Senator?
PETERS: Yes. What I'm really worried about and I think you're spot on when you're saying these are folks who should know better and to me that's what's so concerning. These are folks that have been around politics. They know that these elections are free and fair. We've had those statements. You mentioned from the Department of Justice, the Department of Homeland Security, it's gone through roughly 60 court cases. There's no there there.
And the fact that these statements are continuing to be made is weakening this democracy. Quite frankly the Republicans are playing with fire and they're playing with our democracy. They're playing with the very foundation of what this great country is built on in order to further their partisan ambitions, their desire for partisan power. That is scary. It's irresponsible and, again, this is this is dangerous stuff that they're doing.
They have to rise up and be patriots and say, it is time that we move on with this country. We've got significant challenges as a country. Let's move on.
BURNETT: So let me ask you, Senator, one more thing here. The President also wants to appoint a special counsel to investigate Hunter Biden, and there is, of course, a separate investigation into Biden's son. Now, responding to a question about whether he is confident that Hunter did anything wrong, Biden replied, I'm confident that Hunter did nothing wrong. Do you share that confidence?
PETERS: I have no evidence to have any other view. I mean, we obviously see what happens with evidence, but I think what we have seen from certainly Chairman Johnson, is that he has been trying to, to make allegations that are not based on fact. I know today he was frustrated or lashed out maybe because if you look at some of the comments that he has made regarding issues related to Ukraine, that is Russian misinformation campaign. We know that that's what has been engaged and Ron Johnson likes to talk about it on a regular basis.
We have to be these are serious matters. We should be driven by facts and let facts drive it instead of false allegations that only stir more division at a time when our country is already so divided. This is a time where we have to heal this country and bring people together. And I would hope my Republican colleagues would understand that is more important than whatever their short-term political ambition is. This is about our country.
BURNETT: Well, history would show that sometimes when they unleash certain animal spirits and people - they're not going to go back into the box, as we say, and they may not realize what they're doing. Thank you so much, Senator. I appreciate your time.
OUTFRONT now, Paul Rosenzweig. He served as Senior Counsel to Ken Starr during the Whitewater investigation to President Bill Clinton, of course. Mr. Starr was the star witness today at that hearing. And Abby Phillip, our Political Correspondent.
So Paul, let me start with you. President Trump pushing extensively for the appointment of special counsels to separately investigate his baseless allegations of voter fraud and allegations surrounding Hunter Biden which are being investigated separately. Are there any grounds in your view for a special counsel in either case?
PAUL ROSENZWEIG, FMR. SR. COUNSEL TO KEN STARR, WHITEWATER INVESTIGATION OF PRES. CLINTON: Well, with respect to the election fraud case, absolutely none at all. The hallmark of a criminal investigation, opening criminal investigation is a factual predicate for the investigation, some reason to actually conduct the investigation. And as Sen. Peters just told you, there's absolutely no evidence none whatsoever, that there was fraud in this case and so there's absolutely no basis for thinking about that as a special counsel.
[19:15:02]
With respect to Hunter Biden, the thing that's lacking is an actual reason to think that the Department of Justice could not conduct the investigation itself. That investigation is already being conducted and it has been going on for, it appears a number of years into Hunter Biden's activities by the Trump appointed U.S. Attorney in Delaware. There's no reason to think that the department suffers from a conflict at this point.
BURNETT: So Paul, let me ask you, when you watch a hearing today, three and a half hours spent on election fraud that did not impact the election, major cyber attack other things that are of great pressing need for that committee, but that's how the chairman chose to spend the time today.
You know Ken Starr well and he was a star witness there. Why? What do you think is getting people to go along with some of this stuff?
ROSENZWEIG: Well, I can't speak to judge Starr's personal motivations, but it strikes me that fundamentally in the Republican Party today, there's a refusal to accept reality. There just is an unwillingness to accept the results of an election that were clear.
Look, I get it. I've been in politics all my life and I've been upset when my candidate is lost and I've been happy when my candidate has won. But the fundamental ground of democracy today is accepting the results. Joe Biden got 306 electoral votes, won the popular vote by more than seven million votes. I don't understand why allegations of fraud that have been rebutted by up to 60 different courts can't seem to - they're like a zombie apocalypse that you can't put a stake through the heart of and it's doing damage to the democracy (inaudible) ...
BURNETT: But it is, that's the problem with the worst conspiracy theories, is that they are so conspiratorial that people think the more that they're debunked, the more powerful they become. It's that it's the terrible irony.
Abby, obviously, the President trying to push for the special counsels would put pressure on Biden in a new way other than - there is an investigation to Hunter Biden, but a special counsel, of course, puts that in a totally different court. Biden hasn't yet announced his attorney general pick, how much pressure does all of this put on him?
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I think Biden has from the very beginning been concerned about restoring, in his view, the Department of Justice's independence from the political apparatus of the White House, which has characterized the Trump years. And so I think all along, frankly, this has been a top concern. It's probably even more so right now.
And if you look at the two top contenders according to our reporting, Judge Merrick Garland and also the Alabama Senator Doug Jones, you see in those two potential candidates, people who are believed to be actually fairly even handed who are respected across the aisle, and are not flame throwers. They're not bomb throwers. They're not necessarily ideologues in that way.
And I think that reflects Biden's desire to signal that he wants to stay out of this issue. The question is, will Biden decide to actually say that himself that will he say, I'm going to insist that there is no political interference in this investigation. I'm not sure that he wants to go that far, but I think he'll certainly signal it with his Ag pick.
BURNETT: Abby, Paul, thank you both very much.
And next, Trump considering pardons for more than two dozen people in his orbit. The White House now has a spreadsheet to keep track of everyone asking the President for a pardon, because there's so many.
Plus, a mayor resigning in fear, saying she fears for her safety because she supported a mask mandate. She's my guest.
And Melania Trump heading to Mar-A-Lago this weekend. The Florida neighbors though not rolling out the welcome mat. Threats of a lawsuit if the Trumps try to move.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:22:42]
BURNETT: Tonight, CNN learning President Trump is considering pardons for more than two dozen allies. The White House has been so inundated with requests for pardons that they've actually created a spreadsheet to keep track of them. The President is eager to talk about this even polling his staff who he should consider, imagine how much he loves this.
Evan Perez is OUTFRONT. Evan, one person describing this frenzy to CNN saying 'it's turned crazy'.
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: It is a bit crazy. If you think about it, Erin, there is an entire bureaucracy here at the Justice Department that is set up to review pardons for President's. It's called the Office of the Pardon Attorney. In this administration, they've been sidelined, instead, people have gone through the Kardashians, through Fox News hosts. That's how the President has been giving out pardons and clemency.
So we know that there are hundreds of people who've been reaching out to people at the White House, including to Jared Kushner and to Pat Cipollone, the White House Counsel. And as you pointed out, they've actually created a spreadsheet to track all of these requests. It's not clear how many of these the President is going to end up granting by the time he leaves office, Erin.
BURNETT: So what do you know, Evan, about since it's such an extensive list, the spreadsheet, about who could be on it?
PEREZ: Well, I mean, he seems to be focused mostly on a couple of dozen people. Most of them are connected to the Russia investigation, people like Paul Manafort. But also members of his own family, preemptive pardons for his kids to Jared Kushner, to Allen Weisselberg, who was the CFO of Trump Organization, Rudy Giuliani, of course an the President himself.
The President has talked about whether he should give a preemptive pardon to himself, which is questionable, because the Justice Department looked at this question back in the Nixon era, Erin, and they decided that a president cannot pardon himself. We'll see what the President ends up deciding on that question.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Evan. So let's go straight now to Nick Akerman, who's the Assistant Special Prosecutor during Watergate and Asha Rangappa, former FBI Special Agent. Thanks to you both.
So, Nick, when you look at these pardons for more than two dozen allies, people that he thinks are loyalists to him in some way. One person telling CNN they hope their loyalty to Trump would pay off now. This is what it's for. Have you seen anything like this when you look at history in pardons, Nick?
[19:25:06] NICK AKERMAN, FMR. ASSISTANT SPECIAL WATERGATE PROSECUTOR: No. I mean,
you've seen at the end of the Presidential term or the term or the term of office, that presidents will give a number of pardons. But they're usually given at the recommendation of the pardon office and the Department of Justice, because people have led exemplary lives, there was some kind of injustice in their conviction or to some extenuating circumstance.
Here, the who and why is really important. I mean, the type of people he is pardoning are people like Roger Stone, who never served the day in jail but yet was convicted for covering up the Russian investigation for Donald Trump. I mean, that is not the purpose of the pardon power and that's the way he's using it.
He pardoned on Michael Flynn, who was convicted for lying about his conversation with the Russian ambassador on behalf of Donald Trump. And he's looking to pardon his campaign manager, Paul Manafort, who was involved in providing details to a Russian agent during the 2016 campaign.
I mean, what we're witnessing is a pretty widespread pattern of corruption in using this pardon power.
BURNETT: Yes. Paul Manafort, has anyone forgotten the tax fraud and the ostrich coat? I hope no one has forgotten the ostrich coat. And I don't even say it to be funny, it just it spoke so much about the situation.
Asha, so people are going around the Justice Department and contacting the White House directly. There is a process for this and they're bypassing it. Is this normal?
ASHA RANGAPPA, CNN LEGAL & NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: It's not normal. And let's remember the nature of the pardon power. This is an awesome power. It's one of the few monarchical powers that has made its way into the Constitution. The President basically gets to play god. He can literally decide whether someone lives or dies.
And this is the reason that you have the Office of the Pardon Attorney, because it provides at least a clearinghouse to go through all of these requests, the hundreds and thousands of requests, and find the ones that are most compelling. Ones where there might be a miscarriage of justice, where the law was too harsh or as Nick said, where someone has really rehabilitated themselves into provide those for review.
When they're going directly to the White House for these, what it means is that the best-connected people are the ones that are going to end up on that spreadsheet. Those are not necessarily the most compelling cases for clemency and it results in a lot of unfairness. And then as you mentioned, as well, or as Nick mentioned, there are also these transactional pardons, ones that are being given as a reward for silence or loyalty.
So this is just overall a complete abuse and misuse of what was supposed to be used as Alexander Hamilton said with caution and good judgment.
BURNETT: Caution and good judgment, OK, right. So Nick, CNN learning that Trump has not rolled out a preemptive pardon for himself and, obviously, there's real questions as to whether such a thing would even hold. I recently spoke to the attorney generals both of New York and Washington, they have investigations going on into the Trump family who point out a pardon would not stop their investigations. Here they are.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LETITIA JAMES, (D) ATTORNEY GENERAL OF NEW YORK: Our investigation will continue when Mr. Trump becomes a private citizen, nothing will preclude our investigation going forward.
KARL RACINE, (D) ATTORNEY GENERAL, DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA: We've developed compelling evidence that shows that the Presidential inauguration committee was used as a piggy bank to deliver money to the Trump hotel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So the state level, New York, that's where most of the problems are, Nick, obviously, that would not be covered. It would not be covered by a pardon.
AKERMAN: No, it wouldn't.
BURNETT: So how much trouble is he in?
AKERMAN: No, it wouldn't. He could be in a lot of trouble. We don't really know all the details. We know that there's investigations going on. But the pardon power, even if he tried to pardon himself, which I don't think you can. And by the way, the U.S. Supreme Court back in 1950, said that to accept any kind of pardon is basically a confession of guilt.
So if he or his family want to confess to guilt, they'd be accepting pardons, which presumably could even be used against them in the state proceedings. So by accepting a federal pardon, they can basically be admitting to guilt that could be used against them in a court of law in State of New York or New Jersey.
BURNETT: OK. That is a new angle on it.
So Asha, we're also learning in this context that President Trump is pushing to appoint a special counsel to investigate Joe Biden's son, Hunter. Now, sources tell us that if the incoming acting Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen refuses to do so, Trump could fire him. Unclear then who would be in charge how the President could try to get this done and force this through. What do you see in how Trump is going about this?
RANGAPPA: Well, it's once again an abuse of his power. I mean, the decision to appoint a special counsel rests in the hands of the Attorney General. [19:30:04]
And the reasons for appointing a special counsel is, when the attorney general decides that there may be a conflict of interest in the department of justice pursuing that investigation on its own. And so, the purpose is to, basically, have this independent prosecutor who is free from any kind of political influence. That's, you know, it's supposed to be even more distanced from any kind of political bias or influence.
So, for a special counsel to be appointed because the president is pressuring the A.G. just defeats the purpose of this mechanism entirely. And it's really for the attorney general, and I would say, for Biden's attorney general, to make this determination. And he or she may, in fact, decide this is the course of action, but it really is once again going beyond the norms and the rules and the purpose for which this was created.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you both very much, Nick and Asha.
And next, Joe Biden expected to get the coronavirus vaccine publicly early next week. The White House says Mike Pence will get it on Friday, also on camera.
And he is the most prolific trader in Congress. Tonight, we are learning new details about David Perdue's trades as he fights for his political life in Georgia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's trading, buying and selling stocks in the same businesses that he is directly overseeing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:35:29]
BURNETT: Breaking news, CNN learning President-elect Joe Biden is expected to get his first coronavirus vaccine publicly early next week, while the White House announces Vice President Pence will get his vaccine on camera this Friday.
And we have just learned that the U.S. has again hit a record high in hospitalizations. And 2,000 people died today.
OUTFRONT now, Michael Osterholm, a member of President-elect Biden's coronavirus advisory board. Also, he's the director of the CDC research and policy at the University of Minnesota.
And, Professor Osterholm, thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it and I'm glad to have you back on.
MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, BIDEN COVID-19 ADVISORY BOARD MEMBER: Thank you. BURNETT: So, now we have a little bit more of a timeline for when
Biden's going to get the shot. Obviously, Dr. Fauci said he should get it, and he's going to get it.
So, tell me about it. How important is it for President-elect Biden to get this vaccination publicly?
OSTERHOLM: Well, I can't comment on when he's going to get it. That will be up to the transition team. But like Dr. Fauci's comments, I fully support the fact that he and President Trump, as well as Vice President Pence and Vice President-elect Harris all be vaccinated at the earliest convenience for protection.
BURNETT: So, let me ask you about the vice president, Pence. He's going to get his vaccination on camera, on Friday. That's good. Hopefully, that will get some people who were hesitant to do it. Everybody who gets it on camera, it's a good thing.
But it comes as a White House official tells us that the timing of President Trump's vaccination depends on when it is recommended by his White House medical team. And they kind of threw in there that he's still receiving the benefits of the antibody cocktail he was given.
Now, we know in the past he's been very skeptical of vaccines. We also know if he got this vaccine, it would be extremely powerful for many people. And we also know that one of the Pfizer top researchers last night came on this show and said even if you have antibody, you should still get the vaccine. What do you make of the president's reasoning for not doing this yet?
OSTERHOLM: Well, obviously, I can't comment on that either, since I don't have any inside information on the administration. He surely should listen to the advice of his own private physician, but, you know, in terms of our national assets and the key people here getting those individuals vaccinated and protected is a very important thing to do.
BURNETT: So, let me ask you, professor, about the vaccine itself, right? Everybody's watching this. And it's going smoothly, mostly. But there was a health care worker in Alaska who suffered a severe allergic reaction to the vaccine -- shortness of breath happening after this person got the vaccine, elevated heart rate.
Now, look, we know that this is a very rare event, but if you're just a normal person watching all this, you hear that, you see the two health care workers in the U.K. who had severe reactions, and you say to yourself, okay, if this is so rare and it never happens, why has it happened three times in the first few days this thing has been going out? Is there anything experts don't know that they should know? What's your reaction to this development, Professor?
OSTERHOLM: Well, you know, I think to put this into context, Erin, in the length of the time that you and I are going to be doing this interview, an average of ten Americans will die from this virus infection.
BURNETT: Yeah.
OSTERHOLM: Ten of them.
And so, every day, we have to remember that these vaccines are to prevent people from dying and from becoming seriously ill. And in the sense of having a reaction, which, of course, none of us want to have, but these are all very manageable. And in fact, in all three cases, these individuals are up walking around shortly after it happened, once they received an injection from their EpiPen.
And so, we can expect these might happen. Surely, none of them have led to any life-threatening or serious reaction that could have caused someone to be harmed in a permanent way.
And so, to me, this is a small price to pay. I'm willing to get my sore arm. I'm willing to --
BURNETT: For sure, yeah.
OSTERHOLM: -- potentially have a reaction to get protected.
BURNETT: So, one other thing I want to ask you. The FDA just moments ago saying it's okay to squeeze out a sixth or seventh dose from a vaccine vial if there's leftover solution after giving the standard five doses. Now, that would potentially expand our supply significantly, and there are supply chain issues.
But again, I just want to give you a chance to -- you know, look, if this was all so precise, it's got to be at this exact temperature and they put in the exact amount, it's hard to believe that supplies are so tight and they have a couple extra doses when they actually needed to in the vials, is that something that should be -- I don't know -- what's your reaction when you hear that? Oh, wait a minute, we got a lot more than we thought.
[19:40:00]
OSTERHOLM: Yeah, you know, at this point, we need to maximize the vaccine in every way we can that is scientifically sound. I have complete confidence in the FDA right now that they have moved these vaccines through in a very comprehensive and rigorous review and that all of the statements that they've made about these vaccines and how they should be used have really been based on the best of science. So, if they tell me that they can get that extra dose out, I am completely confident that, in fact, is what can and should be done.
And so, to me, that's not really an issue. It's more of a management at the local clinic site issue as opposed to a scientific issue about will it work or what does it mean.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Professor, I appreciate it. I appreciate your answering these questions. And I think --
OSTERHOLM: Thank you.
BURNETT: -- your clear confidence is important to many. So, I appreciate it. Thank you so much.
OSTERHOLM: Thank you.
BURNETT: Dodge City, Kansas, is looking for a new mayor tonight. The reason is that the person who was the mayor has resigned due to threats she received for supporting a mask mandate, saying she no longer feels safe.
She's OUTFRONT now, Joyce Warshaw, now the former mayor of Dodge City, Kansas.
I really appreciate your time. And I'm really sorry about this. You have been serving your second term as mayor, a job you loved. How bad were these threats, that you felt you had to leave the job?
JOYCE WARSHAW, FORMER DODGE CITY, KS MAYOR WHO JUST RESIGNED: Well, they got much more aggressive after "USA Today" printed an article -- I believe it was on December 11th or thereabouts. And the verbiage of some of the emails and some of the things that were on Facebook and some of the calls that were made just didn't make me feel comfortable, in light of everything that's going on across the country, as far as the divisiveness and the bullying and so on and so forth. So, it was just -- yeah, it kind of all came to a head about the end of last week.
BURNETT: So, let me ask you, mayor -- you're a longtime Republican, though recently you left the party. Obviously, a lot of the opposition to wearing masks that you've seen has been from Republicans.
Is that part of the reason why you left the GOP?
WARSHAW: You know, I'm very disappointed in what I believe Republicans are. I think there's -- and maybe it's just a small group, but it seems to be all over the TV, and I see it in my community now, and they're just very radical and very -- they want to divide. They want to -- I call it the divide and conquer mentality. And there are a lot of bullying, and you know, claiming to be Christian attitudes and so on and so forth.
And I just feel like it's not the party that I know as Republicans, and it's very disappointing, because I think they're doing harm to not only the party but also our democracy and our country.
BURNETT: You know, President Trump, obviously, is the leader of the Republican Party. He's rarely been seen wearing a mask. I mean, rarely is an exaggeration, right? When he got out of the hospital, he ripped it off. It was the first thing he did to the cameras.
He has mocked others for wearing masks, including the president-elect. And, well, here's a couple other examples, Mayor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: But did you ever see a man that likes a mask as much as him? And then he makes a speech and he always has that -- not always -- but a lot of times, he has it hanging down, because you know what, it gives him a feeling of security. If I were a psychiatrist -- right? No, I'd say, I'd say, this guy's got some big issues.
I don't wear masks like him. Every time you see him, he's got a mask. He could be speaking 200 feet away from you and he shows up with the biggest mask I've ever seen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Mayor, how much responsibility does he bear for this mask issue as well as some of the other things you mentioned?
WARSHAW: I personally think he's very responsible for the reaction across the country. That's my belief. I think, you know, the buck has to stop somewhere, and we look towards our leaders, and he is our nation's leader.
And when we hear comments like that and ridiculing and name-calling, it creates irresponsible behavior in people across the nation, and it's trickled down, even into my community, and it's hurtful and it's wrong. And if we can mitigate or take control of this pandemic by wearing a mask and social distancing and keeping crowd numbers low, that's a small price to pay to keep people alive and healthy.
BURNETT: Mayor Warshaw, I appreciate your time. Thank you so much and I'm very sorry for all of those threats that you have been receiving.
[19:45:04]
WARSHAW: Thank you so much for having me.
BURNETT: And next, the man who has bought and sold more stocks than any other person in the Senate, and he has made a lot of money doing so. But Senator David Perdue, who is in a tight runoff in Georgia, doesn't want to talk about it. Why?
Plus, Trump's neighbors threatening to take the president to court because they want to prevent him from moving to Mar-a-Lago. And it's possible? Is it, that they could really stop him?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Tonight, Georgia's Republican incumbent senator, David Perdue, running for reelection in the crucial Senate runoff election, far and away the most prolific stock trader in the Senate.
Now, obviously, is interesting, but what is more interesting is some of the stocks he is trading are in businesses or industries that his Senate committees oversee.
Drew Griffin investigates.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE BIDEN, THEN-VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Raise your right hand --
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In just the five years he's been in office, Georgia Senator David Perdue has conducted 2,560 stock trades, some of them on businesses his Senate committees oversee.
[19:50:02]
It's not just that he's a prolific trader, he is the most prolific, making more trades than any other sitting senator, even those who have been in office much longer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I think the word that comes to mind is astounding.
GRIFFIN: Among his colleagues, it's not even close. An analysis for CNN by the Senate stock watcher website looked at all trades dating back to 2012. That's the year Congress passed the Stock Act trying to curb insider trading in Congress. It shows Perdue in his one term in office has traded more stocks than the most seven prolific stock traders combined.
And it's not just any stocks.
CRAIG HOLMAN, GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS LOBBYIST, PUBLIC CITIZEN: He's trading, buying and selling stocks in the same businesses that he's directly overseeing from his committee perches.
GRIFFIN: Want specifics? In late 2018 and into January of last year, Perdue made at least a dozen purchases in BWX Technologies, a Navy defense contractor. Perdue became chairman of a subcommittee overseeing Navy funding.
SEN. DAVID PERDUE (R-GA): I'm going to be leading the subcommittee.
BWX stock rises, and from February through summer 2019, Perdue sells BWX at a profit. On a U.S. Senate Banking Committee, Perdue worked to roll back regulations on a prepaid credit card industry. Soon after, he was buying stocks in First Data, which stood to gain from the rollbacks.
And in the first three months of this year, in a stock move that triggered a Justice Department investigation, according to "The New York Times," Perdue sold then bought back a large block of stock in the finance company, Cardlytics. Perdue served on the company's Board of Directors but resigned after his election. According to "The Times", the investigation was closed with no charges. Perdue's campaign calls that an exoneration, it's not.
And while there is no proof of a direct link between the profits the companies made and Perdue's actions in the Senate, critics say it is evidence that members of Congress are in a very favorable position to make money in the stock market.
JAMES COX, LAW PROFESSOR, DUKE UNIVERSITY: It would be really good, to take steps that would restore confidence, that the end of it will serving in the Congress are there to serve the public and not their own private agendas.
GRIFFIN: Perdue, whose net worth was estimated at more than $25 million in 2018, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, has chosen to lead the explanation of his stock trades to an aide.
Senator Perdue doesn't handle the day-to-day decisions of his portfolio, the aide told us. All of his holdings are managed by outside financial advisers, who make recommendations. Senator Perdue always follows the law.
REPORTER: Senator, Senator --
GRIFFIN: On the campaign trail, David Perdue will not even pause for questions.
REPORTER: Why won't you debate, Senator?
GRIFFIN: He's refused to take part in the only debate in the runoff, repeatedly refused to even acknowledge reporters like CNN's Kyung Lah, let alone answer or our questions.
KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Senator, can I get you to stop?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: Trades to happen with somebody who's not overseeing them at all, it's also from your reporting the amounts, right? It's not just pennies here and there?
GRIFFIN: No, these are large amounts of money, but trying to find out exactly how much money he is making, Erin, it is hard to pinpoint, that's because of very vague congressional rules. They only have to report these stock trades in wide ranges. For instance, just one David Perdue stock trade was somewhere between $100,000 and $250,000. More evidence, critics say, why this just needs to stop -- Erin.
BURNETT: Wow. Yeah, those are enormous amounts.
All right. Thank you very much, Drew, with that investigation.
And next, Melania Trump heading to Mar-a-Lago this weekend. But her soon-to-be-neighbors have a message for her and her husband, tonight retire somewhere else.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:58:04]
BURNETT: First Lady Melania Trump is going to Mar-a-Lago this weekend, checking in on renovations, according to a source. The trip comes as the neighbors of the Trumps there, threatening legal action, because they want to stop President Trump from moving to Mar-a-Lago after he leaves office.
Kate Bennett is OUTFRONT. So, Kate, they're saying the president would, quote, avoid a -- I'm
sorry, would avoid, quote, embarrassing situation, if he moves to the club and then is asked to leave. So tell me about your reporting? Who are these neighbors, where they're threatening?
KATE BENNETT, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: OK, in a nutshell, it's a very complicated case. But, basically, Donald Trump asked for permission to turn the Mar-a-Lago into a private club, a members-only club, the agreement he made with the town to do so was that he would not be a permanent resident there. That no one can stay there for more than 21 consecutive days. That would make it a club.
Now, as we know, the Trumps are preparing to move to Mar-a-Lago, after Joe Biden takes over as president. So this creates a very difficult conundrum. The neighbors there don't want the hubbub, but they've had the last four years.
So, they have sent a letter to the town reminding them of this agreement that Donald Trump signed back in the '90s.
BURNETT: All right. So, Kate, what do you think? Is there any merit to this from lawyers you spoken to? Do these neighbors have a leg to stand on?
BENNETT: Yeah. I mean, certainly. You know, this is probably going to be a fight, as we know Donald Trump does not like, he doesn't mind a legal fight, especially down in Palm Beach where he's tangled with neighbors before. If they go forward and pursued, is now that he is not president, yeah, sure, there could be a legal suit. There could also be fines, that the town couldn't force on Donald Trump should he stay there longer than 21 days.
Of course, he's made it more complex for moving from New York to Florida to establish residents there, that requires a 6-month state in Florida, in order to get those tax benefits and be considered a resident. So he's really between a rock and a hard place, he could definitely face legal action, he could try to ignore it or fight it, or he could turn the club back into his own private residence if you really felt the need to -- Erin.
BURNETT: Right, of course, he'd miss a lot then, that he holds dear.
Thank you very much, Kate.
And thanks to all of you.
It's time for Anderson.
