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Erin Burnett Outfront
House On Track to Override Trump's Defense Bill Veto, With More Than 100 Republicans Siding With Democrats; U.S. Hits Record Coronavirus Hospitalizations; Police Release New Body Cam Video Of Nashville Bombing; Biden: We've Had Transition "Roadblocks" From Trump Appointees; One-On-One With Alexander Vindman; Candidates Turning To Religion To Win Georgia Runoff Races. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired December 28, 2020 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: May they rest in peace. I'm Jim Acosta. Thanks very much for watching.
"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next breaking news, the House defies the President and now has enough votes to override Trump's veto of a defense bill. The vote hitting Republicans against the President.
Plus, President-elect Joe Biden not holding back, accusing Trump's political appointees of obstructing the transition of power.
And my exclusive interview with Alexander Vindman. The star witness from Trump's impeachment trial. His life turned upside down after testifying, so was it worth it? He's my guest. Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening, everyone. I'm Bianna Golodryga in for Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight breaking news, a crushing blow to President Trump. The House is voting but it now has enough votes to override Trump's veto of the National Defense Authorization Act, 109 Republicans joining Democrats to defy Trump. This will be the first such rebuke of Trump's presidency just days before he leaves office.
And Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has made it clear that he will also call for a vote to override Trump's veto. This vote one of two major decisions for Republicans possibly pitting them against the President. Just an hour earlier, the House approving Trump's 11th hour call to increase stimulus checks to $2,000 despite 130 Republicans voting against the measure. That vote forcing them to either side with Trump and the Democrats or their own party.
Both of these high stake votes are of Trump's own doing. Saturday night he allowed unemployment benefits to expire for an estimated 12 million Americans because he wouldn't sign the coronavirus stimulus bill only to sign the same bill the next day without getting anything in return. And last Wednesday, the President vetoed a massive defense spending bill which provided money for military programs and gave us troops a 3 percent pay raise.
Though he's all but vanished from public view, spending his days on the golf course, the President clearly creating a lot of chaos and confusion for millions of Americans and his own party.
Lauren Fox is OUTFRONT live on Capitol Hill, Kaitlan Collins is with the President in Palm Beach, Florida. But I want to start with Lauren.
Lauren, it's been a busy day for you, where do things stand right now?
LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Well, essentially two overwhelming votes in the House tonight, Bianna. One going in the President's direction, the other going against President Trump and that vote happening right now. We expect that the House of Representatives is on track to override the President's veto on the National Defense Authorization Act.
Essentially, this is a broad bipartisan bill that sets the Pentagon policy for the next year. And the biggest question going into this vote was whether or not enough defense hawks and Republicans would stand up against the President despite the fact that he vetoed it. We now know that there are going to be enough votes.
Now, it isn't gaveled yet, but that's the expectation. We expect that the Senate will vote later this week on the proposal. And we also expect that they will have the votes to override the President's veto. But it's uncomfortable for Republicans, essentially, to have to cross the President in his waning days in office.
Now, there was also a vote just about an hour ago on that $2,000 stimulus check bill. That also passed and that was something that the President wanted to see move forward. We now, of course, know that there were enough Republicans to support this not just with a simple majority, but a two thirds majority, what was needed to pass it now all eyes on the U.S. Senate and what Majority Leader Mitch McConnell will do, whether he will bring this to the floor as a standalone vote.
I am told that Chuck Schumer, the top Democrat in the Senate is going to ask for a unanimous consent tomorrow on this. That essentially just means that any one senator could object, but we'll have to keep an eye out for what McConnell does next, Bianna.
GOLODRYGA: Clearly Democrats feel that they have the leverage on that vote. Let's go to Kaitlan Collins who is OUTFRONT live in West Palm Beach, Florida. Kaitlan, what's the President's reaction? What has he been doing other than playing golf?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, nothing. The White House has insisted that the President has 'many calls and meetings' during these days here while he's at Palm Beach. But, of course, we have seen the President golfing almost every single day since he's been here.
And so the question with this is we're seeing the President split with his own party on raising these stimulus checks to $2,000, more than tripling what he had initially or what his administration, I should say, had initially negotiated for in this agreement. And so you're seeing a situation where typical allies of the President are unhappy and they're frustrated with what's happening on the House floor, given that they just passed this. And so the next question is what does the Senate do because when the
President finally relented and agreed to say that bill last night, even though it wasn't any different than it was when it was first sent to him several days ago, he said that the Senate would bring those $2,000 stimulus checks to a vote on the floor.
[19:05:10]
But Mitch McConnell has not said as much. We do not know what he is going to do, so they're waiting to see. And so you're seeing a president at odds with his own party here where Republicans could be forced to defy the President on this, because they've been concerned about having such large stimulus checks, but also at odds with his own administration who negotiated this deal that he signed last night for several weeks, yet the President was not involved in those negotiations.
And so when you talk to people in the White House, they did not expect him to put out that video derailing or potentially threatening to derail the stimulus bill, the coronavirus relief bill last week. And so they're not really sure what he's going to do next.
It's kind of put this sense of caution around the President's aides where they say he's really more unpredictable than ever right now, so they don't want to guess what he's going to do as he's been basically completely consumed by this January 6th date when Congress is going to meet to ratify Joe Biden's win. But which, of course, the President is looking to his conservative allies in the House and even his own vice president who just has a ceremonial role in all of this to try to disrupt that day, even though of course, the results, as we've noted, are inevitable.
Joe Biden, of course, has won this election and he is going to be inaugurated later in January. And so the question is how much does the President do to disrupt it, before we get to January 20th.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. We see where the President's priorities are. Meantime, millions of Americans are desperate to get that federal aid. Kaitlan Collins, thank you.
And OUTFRONT tonight, former Republican Congressman Charlie Dent, Julie Pace; Washington Bureau Chief for the Associated Press and Jeff Mason, White House Correspondent for Reuters.
What a busy night it is indeed, Congressman Dent, let's start with you. We're seeing 109 Republicans break with the President and voting to override the President's veto. Now, originally 140 Republicans had voted to pass the bill earlier this month, how significant is this?
CHARLIE DENT, CNN (R) FORMER CONGRESSMAN FROM PENNSYLVANIA: Well, it would have been very significant had Republicans not voted to override, had they voted to sustain the veto. But the fact that they overrode the veto, I think really speaks to the incoherence of the President's arguments.
I mean, literally, when you think about it, he said he was oppose of this bill because of something that was not in it, that is liability protections of big tech companies. And the other reason he gave was because of the ability to rename military bases that are currently named for confederate traders.
So if you're Republican and you're defense hawk and you believe in national security, the President's reasons for objecting to this bill were just very, very weak and again, as I said earlier, incoherent.
So I'm not surprised by this override and the President deserved to have this overridden. And there weren't that many Republicans who defected in the end. So it was a very strong vote.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. Bizarrely, the President said that this bill somehow helped Russia and China, which just isn't the case.
Julie, 109 Republicans split with the President and decided to side with the Pentagon. Mitch McConnell says he has struck a deal with Chuck Schumer to take up the veto override. If the Senate also breaks with Trump, what does that say to you about where Republicans are with this president?
JULIE PACE, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, THE ASSOCIATED PRESS: Well, I think when it comes to national security defense policy, this is an area where we have seen Republicans break more from the President than on a range of other issues. They have more comfort doing so on defense policy and on national security.
And part of it is because of what Charlie just said, which is the President's policies here, his views haven't always been particularly coherent and have gone against more traditional Republican orthodoxy and so I think you're seeing that happen again.
But no one should, I think, over read that to say that there is a broad break from Trump happening among the Republican party. That is not the case right now and I think that it will be several months, perhaps even years before we really know the future of the relationship between Trump and the Republican Party.
GOLODRYGA: Yes, that is a good point. And Jeff, you have also seen the dramatic reversal from the President, waiting for unemployment benefits to expire for millions before signing the coronavirus stimulus bill. The President, of course, is claiming victory but he got nothing in return just a few procedural votes. Did he even have a plan B going into this?
JEFF MASON, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, REUTERS: It doesn't look like it. I mean, it seemed like his plan B was simply to kind of create uncertainty, to create chaos within his own party. And now to create this conundrum for lawmakers in the Republican Party about whether to side with him or whether to go with what they've been telegraphing for some time, which is that that's not money that they want to see or that's not a provision that they can support.
So no, there doesn't appear to have been a plan B. But again, I would I would agree with what Kaitlan was saying before. I think it's all connected. This President is focused on his unfounded claims that the election was rigged and everything else is basically a side note or a side show that he's sort of (inaudible) with some distance participating it.
[19:10:08]
GOLODRYGA: Yes. And we should note that it is final now the House has gaveled the vote to override the President's veto. But, Congressman, if we can go back to the $2,000 stimulus checks and the uncomfortable position that this puts Republicans in, in particular Mitch McConnell, in particular the two Republicans running in next week's elections in Georgia, how significant is that and what kind of damage could this put on those two Republican senators?
DENT: Well, those two senators are certainly in a bit of a box right now, because they certainly supported the original stimulus COVID omnibus package. But now this $2,000 puts them in a predicament, are they going to run on a maybe a more fiscally conservative message while at the same time supporting this additional money of $2,000 or are they going to stay where they are?
I mean, having to vote on this before the election is something they would rather not do. They would rather not have to put up a vote right now to make this decision. Because if they support this provision, it might lose them some votes among their base and if they don't support, there are going to be a lot of people who are going to be upset for not getting $2,000.
So they're in a terrible bind and I'm sure Mitch McConnell would rather be doing something other than this during this week.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. Loeffler and Perdue being forced to really side with either the President or Mitch McConnell in these last few days, leading up to the runoff.
Julie, when we talk about what else happened today, in particular President-elect Biden, he is raising a red flag today that I don't think we've seen in a long time. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have encountered roadblocks on the political leadership at the Department of Defense and the Office of Management and Budget. Right now, we just aren't getting all the information that we need from the outgoing administration in key National Security areas. It's nothing short in my view of irresponsibility.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: Now, we know this hasn't been a typical transition, that's an understatement. But when you talk about the Vice President Biden and President-elect making a statement like that, what does that tell you about the divisions in the transition team now from the current administration to the incoming Biden administration?
PACE: Yes. I think it's important for people to know that this is not typical. This is the third transition that I've covered. I covered Bush to Obama and Obama to Trump. And both of those previous transitions are really held up as models for how it should be done.
Even though there was a transition of power from one party to another, officials in the incoming administration really worked overtime to try to help their incoming counterparts get ready for the job, knowing that they would take policies in very different directions.
It's sort of seen as one of those things that is just viewed as responsible, particularly when it comes to national security. Because that is an area where Americans, whether they are liberals or conservatives should have a vested interest in the incoming administration, knowing what they're getting into, knowing what the threats are that face this country and what we're hearing from President-elect Joe Biden is that his team is not getting that information.
And again, I think that's something that Americans should be concerned about, regardless of their political persuasions.
GOLODRYGA: And there's a plethora of National Security issues that are on the incoming administration's plate right now. So getting ahead of that is pertinent and key. And clearly, that doesn't seem to be happening.
All right. We'll leave it there. Thank you so much. We appreciate it.
And OUTFRONT next, the surge upon a surge, record hospitalizations new worries tonight about holiday travel. Experts are bracing for coronavirus. The crisis to get worse in the coming weeks.
What chilling remarks did the Nashville bomber make to a neighbor just days before Christmas. That neighbor is my next guest.
And President-elect Biden warning that we still don't know the extent of what's believed to be the Russian cyber attack on government agencies. I'll ask key Trump impeachment hearing witness and Ukraine native retired Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman what he thinks. My interview with him is OUTFRONT exclusive and that's coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:16:58]
GOLODRYGA: Breaking news, the U.S. hitting record coronavirus hospitalizations tonight. It's now the 27th consecutive day that hospitalizations have been above 100,000. It comes as millions of Americans are traveling during the holidays causing growing concern that we could be heading for a surge on top of the one we're currently in.
OUTFRONT tonight, William Haseltine, groundbreaking HIV and AIDS researcher and former professor at Harvard Medical School and the School of Public Health. And Dr. Jonathan Reiner, an advisor to the White House medical team under President George W. Bush. Welcome both of you. Professor Haseltine, let's begin with you. The TSA says nearly 1.3
million people flew on Sunday alone. That's a record during the pandemic. And, of course, this comes amid a new hospitalization record tonight in a month that has been the deadliest on record with so many people not staying home right now. Do you think it could get even worse in the coming weeks?
DR. WILLIAM HASELTINE, GROUNDBREAKING HIV/AIDS RESEARCHER: The short answer to your question is yes, it's going to get worse. It's not a question, it definitely is going to get worse. But there's a little bit of a half glass full here and that is about half as many people are traveling this Christmas as last Christmas. About half the people have gotten the message. Unfortunately, the other half hasn't.
Not only will they become infected, not all of them but some of them, they will infect their friends. And that infection will spread even more widely in the community. This is not a good time to travel.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. Fewer people are traveling this year than last year but still a record number, just traveled over this weekend. And of course we expect more travel over the next week for New Year's.
Dr. Reiner, HHS says the number of patients in ICU with COVID was 16 percent in late September, now it's nearing around 40 percent. We know it's particularly bad in California where 75 Army and Air Force medical personnel have been sent to help with COVID response. The CEO of one hospital in Los Angeles saying that they may have to begin rationing care, if you can believe that.
If the situation doesn't improve in this country, will we start saying many more hospitals having these same types of conversations?
JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Yes, absolutely, Bianna. I've had conversations with families, hundreds or even thousands of times when a loved one gets acutely ill and we try and decide what the family would want, whether they want aggressive treatment. But what's going to happen in California when you run out of capacity, physicians and bioethicists in these hospitals will need to decide which patients are salvageable, potentially salvageable and which patients aren't.
So the final decision in many instances may not be up to the family. I've never practiced in situation where that occurs, but we face that when we run out of resources. If you don't have respirators, if you don't have nurses to care for patients, you don't have ICU beds. We will have to have these terrible discussions with families, which is why people need to stay home and when they go out they need to wear a mask.
GOLODRYGA: And a reminder to just think of the doctor and nurses that are experiencing the surge and these types of conversations not the first time, not the second time, this is the third time now for so many of them.
[19:20:09]
Professor Haseltine, the CDC order requiring travelers from the U.K. to provide a negative COVID test within 72 hours of boarding their flight went into effect today. Of course, it's in response to the U.K.'s more transmissible virus strain. But CDC researchers say that showing a negative test three days before travel, only reduce the spread by 5 percent to 9 percent, so will this policy make any meaningful difference?
HASELTINE: The difference it's going to make is minimum. Most countries have banned travel from the U.K. altogether. That will be, of course, much more effective. The issue is how much of that virus is already here. We now know that some countries have had the virus since November. I think it'd be very surprising if the U.S. doesn't have it already.
But we need to increase our vigilance and it's just another argument for why you stay home. I was just been reading some of the British thoughts on what this means for them. And it means going beyond where they've ever gone before in terms of control using public health measures while doing maximum acceleration on vaccines. That is what I would recommend for our country at this time.
Unfortunately, we have an administration that's ignoring this problem. If Rome had invented golf, Nero would be on the links while Rome burned.
GOLODRYGA: Really interesting to hear you say that.
Dr. Reiner, speaking of the incoming administration, Vice President- elect Harris and her husband will be getting their vaccines tomorrow, we know. It follows both Vice President Pence and President-elect Biden receiving theirs. Current President Trump, still hasn't been vaccinated, are you concerned that's adding to the vaccine hesitancy that we're seeing in this country, particularly among Republicans?
And let's say he's going to wait to get vaccinated, because he did have the coronavirus just recently. Would it be responsible for him to at least come out and say something publicly about that?
REINER: Absolutely, Bianna. He's basically past the point where there should be any interaction between the medicines he received and the new vaccine. The President should come out and get vaccinated in public.
The Kaiser Family Foundation has shown that there's a huge split amongst Democrats and Republicans with 86 percent of people who identify as Democrats saying that they will likely get the vaccine but only 56 percent of Republicans.
It would mean a tremendous amount for the President to come out, get vaccinated in public and tell the folks that really adore him, his supporters. Tell them that this vaccine is a major advance. He feels that it's safe and he urge all his supporters to get it. It's necessary. It will save lives. He should do it tomorrow.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. And it's a way for him to get credit and give himself credit for Operation Warp Speed as well. It's quite surprising why he's not doing that. Professor Haseltine, Dr. Reiner, thank you so much for joining us
tonight. We appreciate it.
HASELTINE: You're welcome.
GOLODRYGA: And OUTFRONT next breaking news, police just releasing new body cam footage of the moment an RV exploded in Nashville on Christmas morning.
And the star witness from Trump's impeachment trial, retired Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman is my guest. What message does President Trump's veto of the National Defense Authorization Act sent to the world?
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[19:27:04]
GOLODRYGA: And breaking news, a police officer's body cam video just into CNN capturing the exact moment of the Christmas Day bombing in Nashville.
This as investigators say they are talking to the bomber's mother as they search for a possible motive behind the carnage. Shimon Prokupecz is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME & JUSTICE REPORTER: Tonight, days after the explosion that rocked downtown Nashville, investigators are still trying to determine the motive of 63-year-old Anthony Quinn Warner. This dramatic video showing the RV exploding, shattering windows, damaging more than 40 storefronts and injuring at least eight people, none of them seriously.
New CNN video from the scene shows the destruction. FBI agents and ATF agents sifting through mountains of debris in the street with fire alarms still sounding within buildings.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID RAUSCH, DIRECTOR, TENNESSEE BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION: He was not on our radar. He was not someone that was identified as a person of interest for the bureau and so we were not familiar with this individual.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PROKUPECZ (voice over): Warner was killed in the blast. Investigators identified him by matching DNA collected at the scene with gloves and a hat found in a vehicle Warner owned. According to authorities, the RVs Vehicle Identification Number recovered from the scene was a key piece of evidence that led them to identify Warner.
Authority search Warner's home over the weekend. Warner was a computer consultant and said he plan to retire this month, one of his clients told CNN. Neighbor described him as a hermit who sort of kept to himself.
The Tennessee Bureau of Investigation confirmed that Warner's mother has been cooperating with investigators. Warner's father was once employed by AT&T and the agency is looking into whether that may be relevant to the motive. AT&T is the parent company of CNN.
The RV have been parked outside of an AT&T building in the early hours of Christmas morning. Authority say when it began to play the song Downtown by Petula Clark and broadcasting an audio message that a bomb would detonate in a matter of minutes. Police initially responded to the scene because of reports of gunfire, but quickly sprang into action and evacuated residents after hearing the RV's message.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES WELLS, METRO NASHVILLE POLICE DEPARTMENT: I just see orange and then I hear loud boom. And as I'm stumbling, because it rocked me down hard, start stumbling, I just told myself stay on your feet. Stay alive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[19:30:04]
PROKUPECZ (on camera): And, Bianna, one of the things we saw FBI and ATF agents out here doing today on their hands and knees is searching through the debris. They're trying to figure out what chemicals, what bomb-making materials did Quinn use in this bombing. And that is something they're still trying to determine. They said they're still working on that and they're hoping to have answers at some point in the coming days -- Bianna.
GOLODRYGA: Shimon, Shimon, I was just struck by the picture of the wreckage that you tweeted today. It is just incredible. It looks like a war zone. Thank goodness more people were not injured.
Thank you so much for that reporting. We appreciate it.
And OUTFRONT now, Rick Laude. He's lived near the Nashville bombing suspect since 2010.
Rick, thank you so much for joining us.
I can only imagine how traumatic these past few days have been for you. You say that you actually spoke with Anthony Warner last Monday, just four days before the bombing.
So let's start right there. Did he say anything out of the ordinary, looking back? Did anything stand out to you now?
RICK LAUDE, HAS LIVED NEAR NASHVILLE BOMBING SUSPECT SINCE 2010: Thank you for having me.
No, ma'am. The conversation, nothing raised a red flag as to something horrible would happen. When I drove away from that conversation, I thought that something good was going to be happening for Anthony.
GOLODRYGA: Explain that. He said that he was going to be famous or something pertaining to Christmas. Correct?
LAUDE: That's correct. I had stopped. He was out in the street, and I had stopped strictly to ask him about his mother, to let him know that if his mother ever needs anything, you know, don't hesitate to knock on our door. Me and my wife would be more than happy to help in any way we could, just out of small talk. And he said, you know, thank you.
And just out of small talk, I asked him, is Santa going to bring you anything good for Christmas? And he smiled and he said, oh, yeah. I'm going to be famous. Nashville and the world will never forget me.
GOLODRYGA: Wow.
LAUDE: And I wished him merry Christmas. He wished me merry Christmas. I drove off.
But you would have to go back ten years earlier when I had first met him, training my dog. I was walking my dog down the street, and that's how he and I had met. And that's when I learned, he told me he was an electronics technician, an IT technician. So -- and that was ten years ago.
He was a recluse. He and I were not -- let me be very clear. He and I were not friends. You will not find anybody in my neighborhood who will claim to be a friend of his. He was just a legitimate recluse.
But when he said this, I thought back ten years earlier and I thought to myself, well, if he's an electronics technician and an IT technician, maybe he developed an app that he felt confident was going to get patented and have a nice little payday. Nothing about that conversation raised a red flag.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah. And why would it? No one in their wildest dreams or nightmares could have imagined what transpired on Christmas morning.
You mentioned asking him about his mother. Given that as you describe him to be a recluse how close is he or was he with his mother? We know that authorities are talking to her right now and she is cooperating. What information could she possibly give them?
LAUDE: I could not answer that. It would only be speculation.
I can tell you that my wife and I have owned our house for ten years, five doors down from his mother and dad's house. His father passed away some five years ago.
And I remember the RV being in that -- his mom and dad's driveway. And he lived with them. But I have no idea what the internal family relationship was between he and his mother.
GOLODRYGA: Well, Rick Laude, we really appreciate you joining us tonight to give us some sense of who this man was. As you mentioned, no one could have anticipated that something like this could happen. I know authorities continue to look into his past and his associates, including his mother. Thank you so much for joining us.
And happy New Year. Happy holidays to you.
LAUDE: Let me just say --
GOLODRYGA: Yeah.
LAUDE: -- let me just say that Nashville is strong. Nashville is strong.
We had a horrible flood in 2010.
[19:35:01]
Everybody pulled together. We got through it.
We had a horrible tornado in March. Once again everybody pulled together. And we're working through that. And now this.
And I'm just asking everybody of all walks of life to please remember the people who had a home at 6:00 a.m. on Christmas morning and at 6:30 a.m., they were now homeless. Please help these people.
And one last thing. If anybody you know has a mental illness problem, get them help and don't stop until you get help.
GOLODRYGA: Really --
LAUDE: Thank you for having me.
GOLODRYGA: Really important notes to end on. Nashville is a national treasure and our thoughts are with you and the citizens of Nashville as well. Thank you.
And OUTFRONT next, Alexander Vindman's professional and personal lives were upended after his testimony at the president's impeachment trial. Would he do it again? He is my exclusive guest coming up next.
And it is a factor that looms large in the Senate runoffs in Georgia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's advantageous for all of us followers of Jesus to elect people who represent our worldview.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: New tonight, President-elect Biden warning of multiple national security threats facing the United States, including obstruction from the Trump administration with the transition and the overall state of key agencies after four years of President Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've encountered roadblocks from the political leadership at the Department of Defense and the Office of Management and Budget. Right now, we just aren't getting all the information that we need for the ongoing -- outgoing and from the outgoing administration in key national security areas.
[19:40:00]
It's nothing short in my view of irresponsibility.
The truth is many of the agencies that are critical to our security have incurred enormous damage. Many of them have been hollowed out in personnel, capacity, and in morale.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: OUTFRONT now, retired Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman, who was a key witness in President Trump's impeachment probe. He was the former European Affairs director at the National Security Council under President Trump. A highly decorated 21-year veteran of the U.S. Army, he retired this past July.
Lieutenant Colonel, thank you so much for joining us.
This is only your second interview since leaving the military. I want to get to you and your family's experience over this past year and a half a bit later in this conversation. But let's begin with what President-elect Biden just said.
How unusual and how troubling is this to you as someone who worked at the NSC?
LT. COL. ALEXANDER VINDMAN (RET.), KEY WITNESS IN TRUMP'S IMPECHMENT TRIAL: Hi, Bianna. Thank you for having me on.
I'll just say that just listening to President-elect Biden speak, he clearly understands the scope of the issues that he'll face when he steps in as president of the United States on January 20th. I've tried to speak on this issue and the deep concern from serving military officers, from serving officials about the impact of the Trump administration on those institutions, the erosion of those institutions really starting early on with the Department of Justice, working through state and ultimately through the Department of Defense.
And there will be an enormous amount of rebuilding that President Biden and his cabinet will have to undertake in order to just simply undo the damage let alone move this country forward and advance U.S. interests.
GOLODRYGA: So this sounds like a trend that you have experienced over the past few years while you worked at this administration and perhaps aren't that surprised to see but thus are alarmed by?
VINDMAN: I'm deeply alarmed. I think we should not forget about the fact that there are thousands, tens of thousands of public servants serving in all of our departments and agencies day to day seeking to protect our interests.
But what has happened under the Trump administration is he's effectively scraped off that top layer of leadership, that layer of leadership that is supposed to provide the direction for the institution aligned with laws and advancing U.S. interests, and that is the layer that has been corrupted and corrupting those institutions.
We saw even late transitions within the Department of Defense that eroded the confidence in the effectiveness of that leadership of that department. That's occurred in many other departments and agencies over the past four years.
And I think that the Biden administration has some excellent people that they'll be able to place in to start rebuilding. But that -- that is exactly what they'll have to do, they'll have to rebuild before they start tackling -- even before they start tackling some of the most difficult challenges facing our nation.
GOLODRYGA: And President-elect Biden also warned that we are still learning the full extent of the massive cyberattack against the U.S.
You tweeted shortly after the attack became public that while the why now was difficult to ascertain the why is clear.
Four years of President Trump undermining deterrence. The U.S. government can only do so much when the president of the United States is a Putin fan boy. We are less safe.
So, you see a direct connection between the attack and Trump's refusal to ever condemn Putin?
VINDMAN: I think that is exactly right. And I think that, you know, even within the past several days after the attack, after the secretary of state identified and attributed the attack to the Russians, the president coming out and trying to deflect away from Russia, from China. These are just very troubling events that further undermine any caution on the part of the Russians to continue to conduct these kinds of attacks.
We usually refer to this as deterring Russia through our own strength. We are -- we still have the most powerful military in the world. We have the most potent capabilities the world has ever seen. We have a massive economy.
But what we don't have is we don't have the leadership that will show the resolve to defend U.S. interests.
And that's really what we've had over the course of the last four years, is the president has eroded these very fundamental principles and we're going to be entering a period of relearning for the Russians. The Russians will quickly understand that the Biden administration will not allow these attacks on the United States' interests to go unanswered.
And based on the fact they've become accustomed to getting away with it, there's going to have to be some relearning and some increased risk of confrontation as the Russians continue to toy around, and continue to interfere in U.S. domestic affairs, continue to undermine national security and will be -- we will bring them to heel eventually.
[19:45:12]
GOLODRYGA: Yeah, you're actually calling for a democracy summit in a piece that you've written for "Foreign Affairs" recently.
Lieutenant Colonel, if you can stick around for a few moments, we want to have you back after the break.
More with Alexander Vindman.
What are members of the military thinking tonight about the commander- in-chief?
And Trump is heading to Georgia to stump for Republican runoff candidates. But is there an influence even greater than the president?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I always vote for the candidate that most aligns with my Christian faith.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: And breaking news. One hundred and nine House Republicans defying President Trump tonight, joining with Democrats to override President Trump's veto of the $740 billion National Defense Authorization Act, a sweeping defense bill that also included a pay raise for the men and women risking their lives to serve our country.
And still with me is retired Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman.
It has been a year since the president's impeachment, which really upended your career and life. Both you and your twin brother were removed from your posts at the NSC. And you ultimately left the Army after intense pressure from the president and his allies to deny your promotion to colonel.
Given that, everything you went through, did the top brass in the military do enough to support and protect you?
VINDMAN: The bottom line is no, they haven't. And I think in certain ways they probably have misrepresented the secretary of defense -- the former Secretary of Defense Esper probably misrepresented the amount of support I was receiving. At no point did any senior leader, civilian or military, attempt to contact me and, you know, indicated that I was still in good standing in the military.
[19:50:05] Certainly, after I left the White House, I had no contact with anybody that could have indicated that, you know, my military career was -- would move forward as normal.
GOLODRYGA: It's really disappointing to hear because, you know, you and I both as small children came to this country as political refugees fleeing the Soviet Union. You famously testified that your dad shouldn't worry about you telling the truth because, quote, "Here, right matters."
You know, the last time someone questioned my loyalty or called me a Russian sympathizer was maybe in 3rd grade. Yet you have President Trump and members of Congress questioning your loyalty after coming forward.
Republican Senator Marsha Blackburn famously tweeted: Adam Schiff is hailing Alexander Vindman as an American patriot. How patriotic is it to badmouth and ridicule our great nation in front of Russia, America's greatest enemy?
She's not alone. Other members of Congress did the same. Trump may be leaving but those lawmakers are still in office.
So, what is your message to other immigrants who may want to serve this country in some form of capacity and look at that and say, you were right and you were punished for doing the right thing, and maybe here, right doesn't matter? What is your message to them?
VINDMAN: Sure. So, I think that in the end, I have no regrets about how things turned out. Yes, I left the military unforeseen. I had every intention of staying on, going on to War College.
But I think my role may have been in certain ways more important in that I was able to do my part, defend this nation in a very meaningful manner, and expose corruption via the chief executive. And I feel in that regard that I have served my nation and have had the privilege to serve with countless military officers, civilian personnel, and many of those folks were on display as witnesses in the impeachment hearings.
And the United States had a chance to see the excellence of these officials, and that's when I kind of see immigrants latching on to. Not the negative and the cost associated with this particular administration, this president who frankly acts more like a child, highly impulsive, and, you know, the normalcy that people have come to expect from our leadership.
They see -- instead that they see honorable service, people doing the right thing. Yes, they might be some costs associated with it, but you can move on, you can recover and you can play your part in protecting this nation.
GOLODRYGA: Well, we appreciate them. We appreciate you and your service.
Thank you so much, Lieutenant Colonel, for joining us tonight. Thank you and your family for the sacrifices that you have made. And we wish you all the best in the New Year. We appreciate it. Thank you.
VINDMAN: Thank you, Bianna. Happy New Year to you.
GOLODRYGA: Take care.
And OUTFRONT next, how faith figures big into the Senate run-off elections in Georgia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got a little election coming up. Vote Christian.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:56:41]
GOLODRYGA: President Trump traveling to Georgia next Monday ahead of the pivotal Senate run-off races. This as both sides are turning to religion to win voters there.
Kyung Lah is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put our hands together --
KYUNG LAH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At the AME Church in Atlanta suburbs, the Georgia Senate runoff is front and center, progressive and conservative groups determined to move the faithful from the pews to the polls.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, we want to be a ready church, because the whole world is counting on us to make the Senate blue.
LAH: At stake, control of the U.S. Senate.
How important is the role of the church in these runoffs?
REGINALD T. JACKSON, BISHOP, 6TH DISTRICT AME: Oh, Well, I think it's critically important. I think we saw in November, there was a huge turnout among black and a surprising turnout for some, and I think the church played a major role.
LAH: It's important to note that we are in the South.
JACKSON: The Black Church is extremely strong in the South and historically, the black church has led the effort for justice.
LAH: A passion the bishop believes will bring out voters for the two Democratic challengers.
JON OSSOFF (D), GEORGIA SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: Your standard bearer is a young, Jewish son of an immigrant mentored by John Lewis and a black preacher who holds Dr. King's pulpit, Ebenezer Baptist Church. LAH: But this is the Bible Belt.
REV. VANDY C. SIMMONS, SENIOR PASTOR, ANTIOCH AME CHURCH: Right now, we are challenging our so-called evangelical brothers and sisters. We challenge them to be better. We challenge them not to hide behind something called pro-life.
LAH: And there is another major force of faith in Georgia's run-off.
This is Flat Creek Baptist Church, part of the conservative Baptist network.
REV. JOSH SAEFKOW, SENIOR PASTOR, FLAT CREEK BAPTIST CHURCH: We got a little election coming up. Vote Christian.
LAH: Head pastor, Reverend Josh Saefkow.
SAEFKOW: We need to vote with a context of Scripture in our minds.
LAH: There is little doubt with that means to evangelicals.
ALLISON YATES, BAPTIST PARISHIONERR: I always vote for the candidate that most aligns with my Christian faith. And in this runoff, especially, you know, I'm voting for the candidates that are pro-life.
LAH: Reverend Warnock's pro-choice stance and his words from the pulpit, often taken out of context, have been the target of the fiercest Republican attacks.
MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, hello Georgia!
LAH: Vice President Mike Pence has campaign multiple times for Georgia's Republican senators, underscoring abortion.
PENCE: David Perdue and Kelly Loeffler stand for the right to life.
LAH: A potent to get out the vote force for evangelicals, says this pastor.
SAEFKOW: I think it's advantageous for all of us followers of Jesus to elect people who represent our world view.
LAH: You would like to see more engagement.
SAEFKOW: No doubt about it. We have become more engaged as a church family, so we can make an educated decision in the voting booth, but also being frame (ph) to the Scripture.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Amen.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAH (on camera): President Trump is scheduled to be in Georgia week from today. It is the day before the Senate runoff election.
And you get some signs from where exactly he is going. Dalton, Georgia, it is in a county that a president won by 70 percent. It is a reminder, Bianna, that this runoff, at least for the Republican side, is about trying to turn out the base here, white evangelicals among them.
GOLODRYGA: Just fascinating reporting. Kyung Lah, thank you so much.
And thank you for joining us.
"AC360" starts right now.
