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Erin Burnett Outfront
Police Responding To Reports Of Active Shooter At CO Supermarket; Witness: Half A Dozen Cops Came In Through The Roof; Judge Lashes Out At Man Charged With Using Bear Spray On Capitol Officer Sicknick, Orders Him Jailed; Trump Could Be "Culpable" For Riot As He Repeats Big Election Lie; Any Moment: Police Hold News Conference On Boulder Shooting. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired March 22, 2021 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: I'm Pamela Brown and thank you for watching. Our breaking news coverage continues right now with Erin Burnett OUTFRONT.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Good evening. I'm Erin Burnett. We are following the breaking news this hour. Police responding to reports of an active shooter at a supermarket. It's a very fluid situation unfolding as I speak right now in Boulder, Colorado. People who live near the scene are being urged to stay inside.
I'm going to talk to the first witness you heard from there in just a moment. First, so let's go to Lucy Kafanov who is on the ground. Lucy, what can you tell us here?
LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Erin, we don't know much. There's an incredibly heavy police presence here. Multiple agencies responding to the scene, police with the lights flashing as far as the eye can see.
We saw several SWAT vehicles move away from the King Soopers maybe 20 minutes ago and we have seen FBI agents walking around interacting with the law enforcement here on the scene. We know that around the 2:49 pm local time, Boulder Police tweeted a warning for people to avoid this area because of an active shooter. That's when police responded to the scene.
Authorities have not provided any information about the suspect or any of the victims. But we did see images of a shirtless man who was handcuffed. He had blood running down his leg. He was not wearing any shoes. He was taken away in handcuffs placed into an ambulance and then that ambulance left the scene.
We don't know what relationship or what role he played in the shooting. That's just the information that we have. So right now, a very heavy police presence. We're still waiting for concrete information from authorities. It's been nearly two hours now, a little more than that, since this shooting took place.
We don't even know, frankly, if the operation is still ongoing or not. We simply had no concrete information from authorities, Erin.
BURNETT: So this is obviously some of the reports we've been hearing are horrific. But we've been, as you say, nothing has been confirmed from police. Have we heard anything about when police may give us a formal update here?
KAFANOV: We are in what they refer to as the media staging area. There's been some top of potential briefings, but we don't know what time or by whom. I think a lot of the agencies here are trying to figure out who's going to take charge and who's actually going to speak to press and frankly, it does not necessarily mean that the situation inside has concluded.
So I think there's a lot of sort of loose threads right now that they are still pursuing. But as you can imagine, I mean, this is a Monday afternoon, Erin. There's snowstorm moving into this area. A great time to go shopping to get your supplies for the incoming snowstorm and then this incident took place, a shooting at a local supermarket in America.
BURNETT: All right. Lucy, thank you very much and Lucy is going to be back with us as she learns more. As I said, many of these reports we're getting are horrific but we're waiting for police to explain exactly what happened so we understand the facts on the ground. Thank you, Lucy. So we'll talk to her as she gets more.
I want to go now to one of the witnesses who was actually there in the supermarket, Ryan Borowski. And Ryan, I'm so glad that you're safe and thank you for joining us. I cannot imagine how terrifying this was for you. You were just in the grocery store. Tell me when you first realized something was wrong.
RYAN BOROWSKI, WAS INSIDE KING SOOPERS SUPERMARKET: A loud bang, that something drops - some employee drop something. Second loud bang, then the third and we were all running. We knew by the third to run or at least everybody near me did.
I was luckily walking away from the sound of the bullets when they started. And we just all ran to the back of the store and out the back door. And employees showed us the way and we told the employees what was going on. So everybody helped each other and we just ran to safety as quickly as we could.
And it's surprising that like now that like two hours plus have passed and I feel like I know more than what's being reported. I texted my wife at 2:35 to call me immediately, so I guess it was two minutes before that maybe when it happened.
BURNETT: I mean, Ryan, it is, as you point out, it is amazing, two hours have passed, there is so little that we actually know. I know you said you were sort of walking away from the cash register area when it happened. So you didn't actually see that the shots unless I'm wrong. But tell me sort of about where you were when it happened, how you could actually figure out where the shots were coming from.
BOROWSKI: If my FaceTime is showing up, is it clear?
BURNETT: Yes, I can see you and I can see the store behind you.
[19:05:04]
BOROWSKI: So there's two entrances or sorry, one there and one there. So the west entrance was where I initially came in. And I was walking towards the east entrance to get some ice cream, changed my mind and started walking the other way. And the shot seemed to be coming from the east entrance where like a self-checkout machines would be.
BURNETT: OK.
BOROWSKI: So no, I didn't see a shooter. I just saw terrified faces running towards me and that's when I turned and ran in the other direction.
BURNETT: So can I ask you and I know this is really hard to remember and you got to be in shock too, Ryan. But when it happened, was it sort of all in a row quickly or was there a longer break between the first and the second and the second and the third? And again, who knows how you feel about your memory, but any information would be so important.
BOROWSKI: I would say pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, something like that. Somebody else told me they heard 13 shots. I said maybe eight. I don't know.
BURNETT: All right. It still seems like a lot. And then after that first series of shots, you said everybody just started to run. Our reporter was just saying, I know you've got some more snow coming in, Ryan, I mean, how many people did you see in the store?
BOROWSKI: In Colorado, we do get those blizzard panic grocery store to market sweeps and it didn't seem like it was that today. I wasn't bumping into people, but when we were running out the back door - can you still hear me?
BURNETT: I can still hear you, you froze but I can hear you.
BOROWSKI: Sorry, somebody is was trying to interrupt. When we ran out the back door, we were all single file and I had my hand on one person's back and another person had their hand on my back and - there we go. I'm sorry. But, yes, we weren't tripping on each other. Nobody fell down.
When we got to the back of the house, there were some people who just started to run into like a pantry or some sort of storage area and a dead end. And employees made sure to show them the way out. I just threw my groceries on the shelf and just took off with my life.
BURNETT: Yes. I mean, it's incredible how calm you are, but also one thing that is just standing out to me is how much you think ...
BOROWSKI: It's been two and a half hours.
BURNETT: ... yes. But, I mean, it's a terrifying thing. We don't, at this point, even know how many people were killed or who was the shooter. But you're talking about the people helping each other and being calm and it really does stand out. I mean could you ever imagine that you would have been in a situation like this, Ryan, where you are?
BOROWSKI: In Boulder? No. Boulder feels like a bubble. And a bubble burst and that's heartbreaking to think that people died in this today. And it doesn't feel like there's anywhere safe anymore sometimes and this feels like the safest spot in America and I just nearly got killed for getting a soda and a bag of chips. So it doesn't feel good.
BURNETT: Ryan, I really appreciate - go ahead.
BOROWSKI: I mean, yes, it felt amazing that everybody was helping each other out and that our instincts were on the same page and we ran. And I don't know why other people didn't and I'm sorry that they froze. And I wish that this just didn't happen and I wish I had an answer for why that and I want it to be over. And my car is in the parking lot and so I'm stuck here. So I mean, I could leave but I want it to be over and I want to see it end, so I don't even know - yes.
BURNETT: Ryan, thank you very much.
BOROWSKI: Thank you.
[19:10:03]
BURNETT: And as we're trying to get information about what happened, what Ryan was just there when it happened, the number of people who died in this senseless act of violence, we don't know motive, we don't know who did it.
The Boulder Mayor has tweeted words can do no justice to the tragedy that has unfolded this afternoon. And you heard Ryan just say it. It feels like nowhere is safe. He's just going to get a bag of chips and some ice cream. He almost died and some people did just die.
I want to go now to Tim Clemente. He's a former FBI Special Agent, former St. Louis Police Officer and Jonathan Wackrow is former Secret Service agent.
Tim, you heard Ryan speaking there. What struck you the most about what he said?
TIM CLEMENTE, FORMER FBI SWAT & FORMER ST. LOUIS POLICE OFFICER: Well, the fear, it's just so tragic. I mean, our thoughts and prayers obviously go out to the victims, their families and everyone involved in this. But when you hear that the fear that somebody has to go through, they're getting a bag of chips and a soda and that he almost died.
The family members now that don't know if their loved ones are coming home from the supermarket. I don't know if the next of kin have been notified yet by law enforcement. But, obviously, it's an ongoing situation. Were more than one shooter involved? I don't know.
There's so many conflicting details that have come out. But it's really tragic every time something like this happens for any community anywhere when people are so adversely affected that they can't go to a grocery store, can't go out without some kind of violence falling apart.
BURNETT: Jonathan, we are waiting an update from police. Ryan was saying it amazes him that he feels like he knows more than the world at large and it's been a couple of hours since this initially began. So there's a lot of reports out there, none of which we can confirm. Why do you think that this is taking so long for them to tell us what's happening?
JONATHAN WACKROW, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: Well, Erin, first of all, the police are doing their job. And what we're seeing right now is we almost had a front row seat to this crisis incident, almost from inception, between social media, digital media and then our reporting.
We're living in this on demand, instant gratification environment and we have to just take a step back and understand that the police response is really in two phases. It's the initial response to the crisis and addressing the threat.
After that threat has been neutralized, the focus shifts into scene safety, addressing the victims. And remember, the police now and law enforcement have a very large crime scene that they have to now process. So they're just still in the infancy of their investigations in trying to understand and piece all of this together themselves.
The public information officer will come out, but they want to make sure that they're putting out information that's factually correct. And what I would expect to see very soon is that the public information officer will be coming out want to give a broad view of what's going on in understanding is the scene safe, are there other suspects at large and reassure the public that they have control of this environment.
Second of all, they're going to come out and they're going to talk about reunification. Bringing families together where loved ones that have been injured or tragically deceased in this, the reunifications can be very important to communicate to the public. So those are going to be the first things that you see coming out shortly.
BURNETT: So Tim, one thing that Ryan said and again there's shock of eyewitnesses and so I don't present this as a police fact. But he's an eyewitness and this is what he just heard. He said he heard the first shot and thought maybe something was something. And then by the second one, he knew right then and started to run away and then there were more. But he said it was sort of pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, that was the way he described it.
Does anything in what you heard from what he described happening which he said appeared to be over by the checkout area where the self checkouts are, stand out to you?
CLEMENTE: Well, the repetition of firing means that either there were multiple targets or they were being engaged possibly by police. I don't know if all those pops were from the same gun. If they were, then obviously the shooter was picking out multiple targets and that's a horrible thing to ponder. I did see one report that individual may have had an AR-15 or a platform like that, a 223 or 556 semiautomatic rifle.
We've seen those use in several shootings over the years. It's a very popular sporting rifle in America, very common. And it would be tragic to know that somebody is inside hunting in a supermarket, hunting human beings so that's what it sounds like to me.
Maybe the first acquisition of a target was the first two rounds fired and then unfortunately other people became targets of the predator.
[19:15:02]
BURNETT: So Tim, I want to just let everyone know, we are anticipating now that the police will be briefing everyone at 7:45 Eastern Standard Time. So, of course, we're going to bring that to you live. I just want everyone to know that we just got that information, so that's going to be happening within the next 30 minutes.
Tim, what do you think the police are focused on right now and, obviously, we did talk about that one person who came out shirtless, without socks, and blood and was put into an ambulance, but we have no idea - and in handcuffs - but we don't know what that person's role is in this at all.
CLEMENTE: Well, Erin, as a cop they don't know either. The police officers there could be under the impression that he could possibly be the shooter so that the handcuffs may have been a precaution for their own safety for transporting him and that's done routinely in a situation like this. It's unfortunate.
You see it in school shootings where they make kids come out with their hands up or on top of their head, because they don't know who's a threat and who isn't. And that's the first thing is deal with the immediate threat, the immediate threat being that shooter, hopefully, there are not any more accomplices or any other shooters involved and preserving life.
So they're going to want to get in there as quickly as possible, treat the wounded when it's safe to do so and that's kind of a sticky point on whether there should be any concern for officer safety, but they have to be concerned for their own safety.
And so the supervisors will make sure that either a tactical unit goes in to sweep the area to look for threats. At the same time, hopefully, they're rendering aid to anybody that was injured and the last thing you do is obviously take care of the dead after you've preserved whatever lives are still.
BURNETT: So as you've been speaking, the FBI, we understand, is now on the scene. And as we await that briefing, Jonathan, let me ask you about the location. It's a grocery store. You heard Ryan say, he felt like boulder was a bubble. One of the safest places. Obviously, a grocery store is a place people expect to be safe. What does the location tell you or make you want to ask?
WACKROW Well, I just want to go back to Ryan's comment that he felt like he's living in a bubble. This incident just underscores the dynamic and unpredictable nature of these horrific events. What we're seeing is a grocery store is a soft target location and we haven't had a lot of these active shooter mass-shooting situations, through the pandemic. We're starting to see them come back again.
Soft target locations that attract large groups of people remain targets of opportunity for would be attackers. So these environments are susceptible for an incident at any time. However, think about what Ryan was saying. They had the situational awareness. They were able to identify that there was a threat. He didn't see it, he heard it.
So he was triggered off the sound eventually and what did they do? They followed the protocols that we talked about all the time, run, hide, fight. What did they do? They ran. They tried to create as much distance as possible. They took action. They had some semblance of a codified plan to get away from and create distance from that threat.
I mean, those are very proactive steps that everybody should be thinking about all the time, because we just don't know when these incidents are going to occur. There is no safe place anymore. Boulder, Colorado is just another example of the unpredictability of these tragic shootings.
BURNETT: Which just continue to happen in this country. So, Tim, when we get that update from police now in about 20 minutes, what are you going to be listening for first and foremost?
CLEMENTE: The most important thing is how many victims there were and how many shooters there were and whether or not the shooter has been either A, apprehended or identified. Because right now you have community in absolute terror wondering what's happening, where is it safe, where is it not safe and if there was only one shooter and the police have them in custody then that obviously brings the level of danger down for the community at large.
BURNETT: All right. Both of you. Thank you very much.
And obviously, we're going to continue to follow the breaking news out of Boulder where police are going to brief reporters on that shooting and we will bring that to you live when it happens.
Also this hour, Trump is continuing to say he won the election. Even as a former top prosecutor that Trump appointed warns him that Trump could be culpable for the deadly insurrection.
And children sleeping on mats unable to bathe or see sunlight, these are reports from inside the Border Patrol facilities, yet the White House has not let the press see for itself and for you, why?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:23:21]
BURNETT: And we're following that breaking news in Colorado tonight where police responded to a shooter at a grocery store in Boulder. Witnesses say they heard a loud bang and then everyone started running. People in the area are being told to stay inside and the FBI is now on the scene.
We're also awaiting a press conference that is expected to begin shortly. The city's mayor tweeting, "Words can do no justice to the tragedy that has unfolded this afternoon. Our community will soon grieve our losses and begin our healing. Our brave police officers and first responders have the gratitude of our entire city."
And we're going to bring you more details as we get them along with that press conference. Also tonight, an assault on the nation. Those are the exact words of a federal judge, who today blasted the man charged with attacking Capitol Hill Officer Brian Sicknick with bear spray during the January 6th insurrection. Prosecutors releasing these images of Sicknick and two other officers. You can see them huddled with their heads down. This is right after they were attacked.
One FBI agent testifying that they were all temporarily blinded. Sicknick later collapsed and died. This comes as the former top prosecutor who led the criminal investigation into the insurrection tells CBS that Trump himself could be held accountable.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL SHERWIN, INTERIM UNITED STATES ATTORNEY FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA: It's unequivocal that Trump was the magnet that brought the people to D.C. on the 6th. We have soccer moms from Ohio that were arrested saying, well, I did this because my president said I had to take back our house. That moves the needle towards that direction. Maybe the president is culpable for those actions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: That is from a man appointed by Trump. And yet today, Trump is still repeating it.
[19:25:00]
He's still repeating the lie that led to all those people being there for that insurrection in the first place.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Look, we won the election as far as I'm concerned. We had a great election.
We had a great election, and we won, and they took it away. It was a rigged election.
What happened to us with the presidential election could never have happened to the Democrats. You would have had a revolution if the tables were turned. You would have literally had a revolution.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Of course, it was a lot closer around last time and there was no such thing. What we have this time was an insurrection and it was an insurrection by the president's own supporters that he incited. And Trump tonight is still telling those very same people who were willing to storm the Capitol and do violence in his name. He is still telling them that he won the election. That it was rigged. That it was taken away.
He is still repeating the lie that caused the violence and the rage. And that lie reveals a deeply profound truth, which is the Trump does not care about what happened that day and Trump continues to embolden his allies to use that great lie to further their own political ambitions too. Congressman Mo Brooks expected to announce tonight that he's going to run for U.S. Senate.
Brooks, who repeatedly called the election results into question and even helped whip up the crowd of Trump supporters on the morning of the insurrection itself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MO BROOKS (R-AL): We are not going to let them continue to corrupt our elections. Today is the day American patriots start taking down names and kicking ass.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: That was the day of the instruction. And then there's Sen. Ron Johnson. This time he's questioning the actual events of the insurrection and, of course, what video evidence has shown the world.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): One of the reasons I'm being attached is because I've very honestly said I didn't feel threatened on January 6th. I didn't. There was much more violence on the House side. There was no violence on the Senate side in terms of the chamber.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: He said there was no violence on the Senate side. I mean, that does not add up right from the video evidence. I mean, here's the evidence from Trump's impeachment hearing, you see the red dot. Remember this image? The red dot where rioters broke into the Capitol. They're not far from the Senate Chamber.
Officer Goodman who was the one responding to that breach can be seen running past Mitt Romney, telling the Senator to turn around in order to get to safety. And the rioters came within just feet of the Senate floor. The door to the left is the door to the Senate Chamber. It was Officer Goodman who steered the mob away from that door.
We've also since learned that the mob reportedly came within a hundred feet of the former vice president. As you see, Mike Pence and his family being ushered to safety quickly after being hunkered down in a room just off the Senate Chamber.
And then there are other Republicans that Trump himself is holding up as the future of the party, so not just Johnson and Brooks. Here are two men who led the charge to challenge the Electoral College results on the day of the insurrection that left five people dead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think Josh Hawley has shown some real courage in going after big tech, they go after him, Josh is terrific. And somebody that's been really terrific is Ted Cruz.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Josh Hawley and Ted Cruz, you may recall when the rioters stormed the Capitol, those rioters remembered the lies that those two men in particular had been saying, again, here's the video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a good one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hawley Cruz. I think Cruz would want us to do this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Hawley Cruz. Evan Perez is OUTFRONT live in Washington. Evan, I want to ask you about this interview from the former top prosecutor who led the criminal investigation into the insurrection, Michael Sherwin, Trump appointee. And he is just calling it like it is here and it was quite damning and surprising.
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: It was surprising for one big reason, Erin. This is not a building. This is certainly the Justice Department. You don't normally get a window into the deliberations that are ongoing in a case and that's what you got from Michael Sherwin.
He said out loud that he sees enough evidence at this point to bring sedition charges against some people who are now charged in the Capitol riots. And we know that that is something we previously reported that this is something that prosecutors are recommending. It is now in the hands of the leaders here at the Justice Department.
We have a new Attorney General Merrick Garland, who is a former judge. He doesn't really believe in saying a lot of things publicly about ongoing investigations and that's the reason why there was a few people who are not happy that Sherwin went this far in that interview.
But what this tells you, Erin, this is a law, sedition, that is not commonly used by the Justice Department. The last time was over 10 years ago in Michigan. It was a case that ended up - the judge ended up dismissing the charges. It's not commonly brought.
[19:30:00]
And so it is going to be a big political decision by Merrick Garland, by the leaders here in the Biden administration as to whether to bring sedition.
BURNETT: All right. Evan, thank you very much. Just pretty incredible, right? It leads -- it leads you where it leads
you. Pretty incredible for the riot.
OUTFRONT now, one of the nation's prominent constitutional law scholars, Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe.
So, Professor, you know, you hear Evan talked about how surprising to hear this ongoing case. This is a crucial case, right? It involves the investigation into former president of the United States.
Former top Capitol riot prosecutor Michael Sherwin says federal investigators are looking into everything and maybe former President Trump is culpable. He's laying it out, how person after person he was involved in this.
They're all saying the same thing. They're all there for one reason. That reason is former President Trump.
Do you think there is a real legal case against Trump?
LAURENCE TRIBE, CONSTITUTIONAL LAW PROFESSOR, HARVARD LAW SCHOOL: I think there may well be, certainly would count on Merrick Garland and his justice department to get to the bottom of. But sedition is only one of two major criminal charges that the government could bring. It's based on an 1861 statute. 1863 Congress added a criminal law, making it a crime to give aid or comfort to an insurrection.
That is the law that looks to me, as though this president or former president probably violated, at least that's where the evidence seems to point. If he's guilty of that, there is a very interesting punishment. Ten years of prison, but also permanent disqualification from ever holding any federal office. That's part of the sentence for giving aid and comfort to an insurrection.
That law is less troublesome to many people than the sedition law which as your reporter said has been used very rarely. It's really all about treason. This is something narrowly targeted, targeted to people who foment an insurrection. Given aid and comfort. It sure looks like that is what Donald Trump did. At least that's where the evidence points.
And this Justice Department, it's not going to be a matter of politics. It's not going to be a matter of revenge against the former president, nor is it going to be matter of just turning the page. It will be a matter of following the evidence where it leads. Merrick Garland is just the right man for the job.
BURNETT: So let me just ask you to be very clear here, when you say that the former president could be barred from office for -- in perpetuity and faced 10 years in prison, if charged and found guilty.
TRIBE: Right.
BURNETT: Under what's charged, just to make sure I understand. Just to make sure I understand. You're saying that actually doesn't even include sedition? TRIBE: That's right. It's the charge of giving aid and comfort to an
insurrection under 18 U.S. Code Section 2383. It's a very fundamental federal criminal statute, it's on the books. It's meant to be enforced and not ignored.
It applies not only to conspiring to overthrow the government which is the sedition law, but it's meant to apply to people who engage in or give aid and comfort to insurrection or rebellion. That's exactly what was going on. When a mob was riled up and fomented by a president who knew what he was doing, knew it he was saying and watched with glee, as people's lives were taken and as people's lives were threatened. That's what this is all about.
And I don't think it's appropriate for people in the Justice Department to be talking about the evidence trial right now. It's going to be looked at closely, and we'll see what happens.
BURNETT: So, talk to me about. I know you've known the Attorney General Merrick Garland for many decades, and you've known him as a professor and of course as a friend. Sherwin (ph), who we just saw speak, his successor is now the acting U.S. attorney for D.C., Channing Phillips. So, they obviously are not talking, because they are not active lee in the investigation. But when do you think you are going to know?
TRIBE: Well, you know I don't have a crystal ball. Merrick Garland is very methodical. He was a very wonderful student back in the 1970s. I've known him ever since. He was a terrific prosecutor in the Oklahoma City bombing. He's an expert on domestic terrorism, that's certainly what this was.
I don't think he's going to tip his hand, but the evidence is going to be developed methodically. There are all kinds of witnesses. Many will turn on one another, it seems to be quite likely that sooner rather than later, we're going to see something, but I would not hazard a prediction about exactly when.
BURNETT: All right. Professor Tribe, I always appreciate your time. Thank you very much, sir.
TRIBE: Thank you.
BURNETT: I want to go now to Matthew Dowd, chief strategist for the Bush-Cheney 2004 presidential campaign.
So, you had the former president today, and I understand that this does not surprise people.
[19:35:06]
But it should deeply disturb them because it does reveal the profound truth of how nobody cares, or anything that happened, or anything that happened to anyone, people die. That it was rigged, that it was stolen from him and that he won, and he continued to criticize Mike Pence for not objecting to the Electoral College results. Mike Pence who's gotten right back in line, patting Trump's back. Trump slams Mitch McConnell. He, you know, exults Josh Hawley and Ted
Cruz, who have perpetuated the deep lie.
So, what's to say about the Republican Party?
MATTHEW DOWD, CHIEF STRATEGIST, BUSH-CHENEY '04 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: Well, Erin, I think it is as about the Republican Party is Donald Trump knows who the Republican Party is today, and the majority of where the Republican Party, the majority of the Republican Party has ended up.
Donald Trump didn't create this, he kept trying to tell people. The Republican Party caught this virus years before Donald Trump, and it began to spread with the Republican Party certain leaders had protocols in place to try and keep the spread from happening, to keep it from going too far, to try and stay at least close to the truth and our Democratic institutions.
What Donald Trump did is he just got rid of all the protocols on the virus, he just got rid of them all and allowed it to spread, allowed people now to see this is who the Republican Party is.
So I think he's exactly right, when it says people Josh Hawley, or people like Ted Cruz. Though I think it's more apt to be people like Governor DeSantis, or Governor Noem from South Dakota than those two, but this is who the Republican Party is, this is who they are.
On this, day, I'm going to say one, thing on this day with this Boulder, Colorado, shooting, which is so awful. I'm going to give you a factor and, in the last 50 years, there has been 1.5 million people died for shootings, from gun deaths. In the last 50 years, there has been 1,500 proven voter fraud, out of 3 billion votes cast.
And what does the Republican government spend its time doing, spinning a lie about what's not happening today sadly that you have to cover on this news, on the lead on this news, another shooting. They are not dealing with what's actually is happening, but they're creating a problem and Donald Trump is front and center and the Republican Party is overwhelmingly giving him permission to continue to lie.
BURNETT: That's really powerful -- really powerful comparison there.
Matthew, I appreciate you, thank you.
DOWD: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, we are following that breaking news out of Boulder, Colorado, where police and the FIBI are now on the scene, responding to a shooting at a supermarket where press conference is expected to begin shortly. Any moment here, we are going to bring it to you as soon as it happens.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:41:43]
BURNETT: We are following the breaking news in Colorado, tonight, where police in the FBI are responding to a shooting at a grocery store in Boulder. Press conference is expected to begin there any moment.
Video taken as the shooting was taking place. We can show you, it does appear to show motionless individuals on the ground, both inside and outside the store.
Lucy Kafanov is on the scene.
And, Lucy, what more can you tell us? Obviously, horrible here we're learning about the people, motionless on the ground.
LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT: An absolute tragedy, the disturbing footage of live stream of some of the attack showed some bodies both in the parking lot and what appeared to be inside the store. In the exit of the video, you can hear one person saying, we don't know if there's a shooter, an active shooter somewhere. You saw people shouting, oh my god. People down inside -- we've got people down inside King Soopers.
It's horrifying what took place here this afternoon, at a round 2 30 perhaps on Monday in Boulder. We still don't know the details, literally expected to start any minute now, we're going to be hearing from two individuals, with some more details. Kerry Yamaguchi, the Boulder police commander, and Michael Dougherty, the Boulder district attorney.
So far, police have not given out any information about what took place inside the supermarket. We know that there were individuals inside. We know that there's an active shooter. We saw footage of a man, a shirtless man who didn't have shoes on, he was just wearing shorts he had blood running down his leg. He was taken in handcuffs, place into an ambulance and that ambulance had driven away.
But, again no details on who that individual was, we don't hope to get more of those details here. We are just about a block away from where I was earlier, the King Soopers is maybe a block away from here. Very heavy police presence. We've seen FBI agents as well.
The operation or investigation is ongoing, and we are eagerly awaiting these details from the officers who are about to brief us on what's took place this afternoon, in Boulder -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Lucy, thank you very much.
And as Lucy said, this is expected to begin any moment and we will be bringing it to you live.
Tim Clemente is back with me, along with Charles Ramsey, a former Philadelphia police commissioner and former Washington, D.C. police chief.
Let me just ask you, Chief Ramsey, we now know this eyewitness video is there, which appears to show motionless individuals on the ground, both inside and outside the store. Also these reported gunshots that an eyewitness was describing just earlier, this hour, as sort of a, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop.
When you look at this now, when you're about to hear this briefing, what is the most important thing for you to hear, Chief?
CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, there are a couple of things. We will get more accurate information in terms of the number of people injured, killed, injured, hopefully that's not the case but you know it could very well be.
Is the shooter in custody? What information can you give about that individual?
[19:45:01]
Response time, I would imagine will probably come up so there is some kind of timeline that will be given by the authorities as they speak. Right now, I think just knowing the extent of injury and death, I mean, it's tragic. Right now, they're probably in the process of notifying families if, in fact, there are fatalities associated with this. It's just a -- it's tragic.
BROWN: And, Tim, we know the FBI is part of this investigation. What does that tell you?
CLEMENTE: It tells us that either they were called in by the locals for their assistance or there are some attribute that they have that the locals don't have, and that could be anything from, you know, possibly records checks, fugitives, manhunt if the individual got away, the shooter, I mean. It could be a tactical need.
The FBI has tactical SWAT teams in all 56 field offices, and I'm sure there is one close by that could have been consulted, or responded to the scene, to assist with any tactical intervention inside of the supermarket, or an arrest scenario, if it turns out that the suspect has left the scene and is, possibly, located somewhere else.
I agree with Chief Ramsey, that the primary concern, of course, is trying to ensure that the loss of life and those that are wounded is minimized. Hopefully, we get good information coming from this press conference, that tells us the initial reports were exaggerated.
BURNETT: That's, obviously, of course, very much what we hope because there has been a lot of horrific reports out there. But we do anticipate to hear from Commander Yamaguchi, and the district attorney, Michael Dougherty, momentarily.
Chief Ramsey, they obviously have been moving quite quickly here over the past few hours. But, really, we haven't gotten any of these details over the last few hours. Ordinarily, we might know a little more, and not because police told us, but we may just know a bit more.
What do you think is happening here? RAMSEY: Well, they want to give you as much accurate information as
possible. I know people want to know, and they want to know very quickly, but it is also the responsibility of the authorities to provide as much accurate information as possible. If you have a situation where people were actually killed, they need to be able to identify those individuals, tried to make some contact with next of kin, and so forth.
So, there are a lot of thing that is going on when you have a situation like this. You are trying to do a press conference as soon as you can, but you want to get the authorities together, so they are fully briefed. FBI, state police, local police, all of those groups that came together to deal with this particular case, and have one spokesperson.
So, they need to coordinate all of that.
BURNETT: And, Tim, obviously, the investigation is still early. What do you think police will be able to tell us?
CLEMENTE: Well, hopefully, there is a suspected custody. That is the primary could soon. The number of victims is of the utmost concern, obviously, for the community at large. And family members, that notification is vitally important.
Knowing whether or not this was a single shooter, I doubt, at this time, that they have much by way of motive, but they might. It may have been a disgruntled former employee, or it could be that they had a family member, or former spouse or something that was the primary target.
Those kinds of things may be available to law enforcement by now. They have identified the suspect, and or apprehended him.
BURNETT: So, Chief, we just got in this video, and I want to show it. It is disturbing, and I want people to understand here, but as we try to understand what is happening, and wait for these details from police on the facts they have, this is the video I mentioned from an eyewitness. It shows motionless bodies, both inside, and outside the store. So, let me just show it to you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't know if there's a shooter, an active, shooter somewhere. Could be in the store?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's one in there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He went in the store?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's still there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh my god. Guys, we have people down inside of King Soopers. Look --
(GUNFIRE) (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Chief, you heard the sound of what appears to be a gunshot there. We blurred out, but there was also a body. So this, obviously, was taken as this was still ongoing.
RAMSEY: Yeah. Well, I don't have the return, so I didn't see the video, but I can only imagine, you know, having someone lying motionless, obviously, something is very disturbing. The question is, how many people were shot? Or even killed in this incident?
That one gunshot, we don't even know if it was the government taking his own life. That's not uncommon when you have an active shooter. We just don't know the answer to any of those kinds of things yet. But we will just as soon as the press conference is held.
[19:50:05]
At least we'll get some of that information, probably a lot of the most critical information in terms of the shooter, in terms of the number of people injured, or, perhaps, even killed, a timeline, all of those thugs. And who's to doing what's?
I know FBI is there. They're very good at assisting and processing a crime scene. And that could be a role that they are playing, as well as providing additional information, doing background on the individual who is responsible for this, and so forth.
BURNETT: And, Tim, what -- you -- that, video I don't know if you can see it, but obviously, you have the person taking the video, briefly interacting with what appeared to be, someone who worked at the grocery store coming in. You know, where you have the sliding double doors on the sides by the cast register.
So, we're just going to watch it here as we're talking to you. Then when he goes in, you do see what we have learned out, is a motionless body over by some of the cash registers, and then you hear a gunshot. It does give you a bit of a sense of time here, and that there was already an awareness of something horrific had happened.
And someone is coming in, on their phone videoing. Then, you can still hear gunshots.
CLEMENTE: That leads me to believe, very much, it was an active scene when that individual entered the store. The one person that's laying on the ground, you know, there is a host of situations that could cause them to be on the ground. They could've even had a heart attack at the sound of gunfire. They could be playing possum.
There's a lot of different possibilities. We don't have to assume, automatically, that person has lost their life, although, that definitely is a possibility. And the fact that shots were still being fired, including the one we heard on the video, that means that there were other targets, that this individual was aiming for. And/or, as Chief Ramsey said, it's very common for active shooters to
take their own life, and end up being shot by police at the end of a scenario like this. And so, it's very possible that the shooter, himself, may have taken his life. And maybe we heard that shot on that video.
BURNETT: Right. And, Chief Ramsey, also, I want to go back to the information we have as we did see them take that man out of the grocery store who was walking, but in handcuffs, without a shirt, without socks on, and with blood coming down his leg. He was put into an ambulance, and taken away.
He had handcuffs on. That's really all I can tell. I can't tell you anything more about him.
What do you take away from hearing that?
RAMSEY: Things are very chaotic, and initially, you don't know what you have when you come in contact with people. He may have been a suspect, for example. Maybe he was the shooter. I don't know.
But I wouldn't assume that he was the shooter, because I don't think we would've heard from way should to deal. I have been to scenes where people have been temporarily restrain until later, you find, out but the person is not someone who should be in custody.
So, it's hard to tell. This is unfolding very quickly, it's very chaotic. You know, the police don't know exactly what they have, people in the store don't exactly know what's going on. I mean, all of these things happening at the same time.
Bottom line, we can only hope and pray that there was not any loss of life in this particular incident. Because, right now, it's the people who are most important part of this now, the people who were in the store, who may have been injured, or God forbid, killed.
BURNETT: You know, the eyewitness, earlier, was just saying, and had sort of broke down that he had gone into the grocery store to get chips, soda, changed his mind to get some ice cream. So, he walked away from the cash registers. It was just emotional in the sense of, I could've died go into the grocery store, someone indeed may have died going to the grocery store.
This shooting that we are, as I said, momentarily going to be hearing from officials with more information, it's coming on the heels, of course, of the horrific shooting we just had in Georgia.
I want to go to Kaitlan Collins here because, Kaitlan, this is now the second shooting in just days that this new administration has to deal with.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, this is one of those aspects of being president, where these things come up unexpectedly. You have a list of agenda items that you want to talk about and get accomplished, and often things like this can pop up on fortunately. And so, one thing we did notice in the wake of that shooting in
Atlanta last week was President Biden did not, really, use the issue to try and advocate for any sort of gun reform. That is on like the president he served when he was vice president. Barack Obama, who did bring it up when talking about the Atlanta shootings last week.
So, right now, we are still waiting to hear from the White House on whether even President Biden has been briefed on what's been going on in Colorado. They have not said that he has been briefed yet, though, typically, presidents are briefed quite quickly after something like this has happened on what we do know, as we are still gathering information.
So, I do think that a second shooting, in one week, Erin, is going to bring this to the forefront.
[19:55:04]
And there are going to be questions about where the president wants to move on guns, what is his position on this, of course. We know what he said back on the campaign trail. We know it's been going on on Capitol Hill, with the House recently passing that background check bill but the Senate has, yet, to take up.
And we've heard from multiple Hill sources that was something that will have to undergo significant changes before it could go anywhere in the Senate. But this is something like this that could bring this issue to the forefront for this White House. And so, we will wait to see what it is that President Biden says, of course, they are still gathering the facts about what is happening inside of the supermarket, in Colorado. But it is often moments like this that elevate those issues for presidents.
And, of course, President Biden did make a statement on February 14th, the anniversary of the Parkland shooting, talking about that, and talking about gun control measures that could be taken there. It is often something that presidents are faced with in a situation like this.
So, we are still waiting, Erin, to see that President Biden has been briefed on the shooting, and we will let you know as soon as he is.
BURNETT: All right. Kaitlan, thank you so much.
And, you know, while Kaitlan was speaking, you may have -- you are watching some video here, but we have more video from the eyewitness who shot the video walking into the door of the grocery store where you saw the motionless figure, and hear the gunshot, also was able to capture when police were first arriving in their tactical gear.
So, let me just play that for you. Tim, Chief Ramsey, are still with me. Let me play it for all of you to see.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)
BURNETT: Tim, you are seeing that there is a police officer there, you can also see to the left of your screen, other officers. You can see them approaching King Soopers there. Obviously, using the car sort of as blocks, right? And then another to the right. Obviously, coming in in some sort of a formation here.
CLEMENTE: Yes, the objective in a situation where there is an active shooter is, generally, most departments don't want an officer to respond solo, and go in alone. But sometimes, that's absolutely necessary and it takes place. When you can have two or three men for what is called a stick, in a tactical situation.
They line up those officers, I actually can't see the video, but your description tells me they were using cover, using vehicles for cover, and leapfrogging to move towards the entrance of the building.
At some point in time, you need to break cover, and move into what's known as the fatal funnel, the actual entrance to the threat zone. What they are looking for there is the immediate threat, the shooter. They don't know who has a gun, what kind of gun they have, what they look, what they're dressed like, or who their targets may be.
So, it is quite difficult for law enforcement to be able to ascertain, and discern, what's a threat and what isn't in that situation.
BURNETT: And, Chief Ramsey, it obviously appears that whenever they got the call, though, they did go in in an organized fashion. Now, here, you also see, you describe it accurately. Several officers, using cars for cover as they get closer, and closer. Then you see a group of three, running up to the store, and going behind the cars. You have two more officers here, all with their guns.
Chief Ramsey, this was not a small operation. By the time they got here, they were extremely organized.
RAMSEY: Well, you know, they trained for this. Active shooter training, departments across the country undergo that training.
And we learn from Columbine, that you just can't wait for the SWAT team to show up. The first responders will be the men and women, out there on patrol. And, you know, they form up, and then go in because the first thing you need to do is neutralize the threat. You can't allow it to just randomly shoot people. And that's what you're seeing there. I don't know if you have officers that have already made entry or not, difficult to tell from this, but, clearly, that is what the training entails.
BURNETT: Right. Yeah, no, we can't -- we can't tell from this, and I would presume that after this video was filmed, the person who filmed it then, obviously, went up to the entrance, right? And that's when you saw the other video that we showed viewers with the motionless body where you heard the shot.
Tim, let me just give you one more question here, as the final word. What do you expect to hear first from the, I would presume, it's going to be commander first, Yamaguchi speaking?
CLEMENTE: Obviously, the first and most important thing is information on the suspect if they're still at large or if they have been apprehended. Put the community at ease, and deal with the victims, and how many people -- how many lives, if there have any have been lost, or how many people were injured.
BURNETT: All right. I appreciate both you very much and our breaking news continues now with Anderson.
