Return to Transcripts main page

Erin Burnett Outfront

Bannon Changes Course, Now Willing To Testify Before 1/6 Committee; Sources: January 6 Committee Is Preparing To Show Ties Between Trump Allies & Right-Wing Extremists In Hearing Tomorrow; 8- Year-Old Boy Paralyzed In Parade Shooting Undergoes Surgery; Poll: 64 Percent Of Dems Want Someone Other Than Biden In 2024; Police: Shinzo Abe Assassination Suspect Shows No Remorse; White House: Iran Is Rushing Hundreds Of Drones To Russia Amid War. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired July 11, 2022 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:42]

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next, the Steve Bannon wildcard. He's agreed to testify before the January 6 committee. But will it happen and will he turned the proceedings into a total circus? We're finding this out as investigators zero in on Trump's direct ties to extremists.

Plus, the 8-old boy who was paralyzed after being shot in the July 4th shooting is undergoing surgery. We're going to have an update on his condition tonight.

And a stunning, never before seen image, a color image, look at that. It's coming in out of the our universe from the NASA's new $10 billion telescope. We will tell you how old and how far away it is.

Let's go OUTFRONT.

And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.

OUTFRONT tonight, the Bannon factor. Long time Trump allies Steve Bannon suddenly reversing course and saying he is now willing to testify before the committee. This is really stunning about-face, in one sense, because he refused for months to appear even though he has had a subpoena.

The Justice Department calls Bannon's about-face a stunt and says his sudden wish to testify is not a genuine effort to meet his obligations but a last-ditch attempt to avoid accountability. Well, that's just calling the word is. Bannon, of course, was the one who said this the day before the insurrection.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE BANNON, FORMER TRUMP AIDE: All is going to break loose tomorrow. Just understand this, all is going to break loose tomorrow.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Loud and proud to anyone who would listen. "Washington Post" reporters Bob Woodward and Robert Costa reported Bannon also was the one who convinced Trump to come back to Washington from Mar-a-Lago so that he can attend the Stop the Steal rally in person.

And they quote him as saying, you've got to return to Washington and make a dramatic return. People are going to go, what the F is going on here? We're going to bury Biden in January 6, f'ing bury him.

But it's unclear if Bannon will really appear in this stunt. And if he does, whether he will turn the committee's proceedings into a circus because, of course, his goal is to mock the very premise of the hearings.

It comes as the January 6 will air tomorrow for the first time the much-anticipated testimony of former Trump White House counsel Pat Cipollone, which takes place under subpoena. It was behind closed doors for nearly eight hours. So, we are going to see part of that tomorrow.

The rest of the witness list of who will appear tomorrow is a mystery. It's a concern for witness intimidation and security. Sources tell CNN the committee will use tomorrow's hearing to draw a direct link between the extremist groups like the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers and people inside of Trump's inner circle. Some of those connections were with Roger Stone, who was seen with members of the Oath Keepers on January 5th, and Michael Flynn, Trump's former national security advisor who when he actually did testify before the committee said or answered basic questions like this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): General Flynn, do you believe the violence on January 6 was justified?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I get a clarification? Is that a moral question or are you asking a legal question?

CHENEY: I'm asking both.

MICHAEL FLYNN, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: I said, I said the Fifth.

CHENEY: Do you believe the violence on January 6 was justified morally?

FLYNN: Take the Fifth.

CHENEY: Do you believe the violence on January 6 was justified legally?

FLYNN: Fifth.

CHENEY: General Flynn, do you believe in the peaceful transition of the power in the United States of America?

FLYNN: The Fifth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: I mean, that was not something that you need to take the Fifth on in any situation. It's pretty unbelievable.

Flynn obviously didn't want to talk but more and more people are talking. So, as these hearings have unfolded and they have been so compelling and so specific, a source close to the committee says it is receiving new information on what they deem important information on a daily basis. They say so important that it got incorporated into their plans. And that has forced the committee to scrap a primetime hearing that was being considered for Thursday night. That hearing was expected to focus on what Trump was doing and not doing during the 187 minutes that the Capitol was under attack, the actual attack itself.

[19:05:03]

Now, members of the committee have described Trump's behavior during those 187 minutes as a, quote, dereliction of duty.

Manu Raju is OUTFRONT live on Capitol.

And, Manu, let's start with tomorrow. What are you learning the committee has ready for tomorrow? I understand we're going to hear some of what Mr. Cipollone set. Otherwise it seems we are in the dark on the witness list. So, tell me about tomorrow and also about this hearing that is not happening on Thursday night now.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORREPONDENT: Yeah, tomorrow's hearing will focus on the planning those underway by those extremist groups, the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers in the days leading up to January 6th. The violence that occurred at the hands of some of those members as well as the ties those group members had to some of Donald Trump's closest associates, Roger Stone, a long time Donald Trump associate, Michael Flynn, the former White House national security advisor under Donald Trump. That's part of the discussion.

Also, it's going to focus on a meeting that occurred in mid-December. It's a discussion about seizing and appointing a special counsel, and the committee is trying to draw the connection from a Trump tweet that occurred and how that tweet set up a change of events that led to the planning of -- by some of these groups that are planning to run up on January 6 tying that directly to Trump's actions itself. Now, we will hear from live witnesses.

We do know of one, that's Jason Van Tatenhove. He's a former spokesperson, a self-described propagandist of the Oath Keepers. He told a Colorado TV station last week that, quote, I did get a lot of inside access to the Oath Keepers. So, we do expect to hear about that.

We also could also expect to hear more about Pat Cipollone, the then White House counsel under Donald Trump, at the time of the attack told the committee behind closed doors we testified for more than eight hours. We will see some video clips from that as well. It could also spill into next week's hearing. That was a hearing that was expected to happen on Thursday. It's delayed until next week because more information is being learned by the committee as it planned to present next week and the days ahead.

BURNETT: Manu, thank you very much.

So, let's go Jim Schultz now, former Trump White House associate counsel, Asha Rangappa, former FBI special agent, and Eli Honig, former assistant U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York.

So, Elie, let me start where Manu finished, right? He's talking about this hearing that was expected and now it gets delayed because so much information is coming in. It was supposed to focus on the 187 minutes of the attack and what Trump was doing in that explicit and very specifically defined period of time. But what you make of this delay?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, on one hand, Erin, better to get it right than to get it quick. This will be really their last of this initial series of hearings and potentially the most dramatic. I understand the desire. Let's get all of our evidence. Let's make sure we do it right.

On the other hand, though, you do have to be wary of losing the thread of losing momentum. When I used to try cases and federal courts in New York, sometimes you have someone would get sick, and you'd have to travel problem and you have to delay your travel 3 to 4 days. That would make me nuts as the prosecutor, because you lose the momentum with the jury.

This set of hearing started on June 9th and it's going to go into late July. That's a long time to keep attention and to keep momentum.

BURNETT: Well, and it's also, I sort of think of it like the book that you liked.

HONIG: Yeah.

BURNETT: And you put it down. You put it down for three or four days, you got to go back a few chapters, to kind of remind yourself of where the plot line is. You just don't want to be in that position, right?

HONIG: And you forget things too.

BURNETT: Yeah, exactly.

So, Jim, the committee is expected tomorrow on a hearing that is happening. This one is specifically focusing in on connections between the Trump administration and some of the extremist groups that were present and the Proud Boys obviously, the two big names. Now, they have declined to say which witnesses are going to testify tomorrow. They are specifically citing security concerns. So, they have previously made public some messages that the committee called witness tampering and they were essentially threatened are told not to show up.

You know the former president. You know plenty of people in his inner circle. What do you make of this?

JIM SCHULTZ, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: So, I think they are going on past practice, right? There were some threats that came through. We don't know who they were tied to or who was pushing them.

But the bottom line is, there were real threats made. There were death threats made. There were a number of, you know, very disturbing things, thuggery that really happens in cases where you have violent criminals, mob cases, those kinds of things. They are taking it seriously. The last thing we want to have as a witness in some type of danger. So, I do think that's wise for them to do that.

BURNETT: So, Asha, the context here is how close and how clear are the connections between Trump and these groups, right, Proud Boys and Oath Keepers? I know prior some information had come out. One of the senior leaders was on the phone with someone close to Trump and that person did not actually hand the phone to Trump, right? That's one of the details we have, but it's only one.

The question is, how close and clear are these ties?

[19:10:03]

Do you think they are going to tighten that nut?

(CROSSTALK)

BURNETT: Sorry, Asha, go ahead. I will bring you in.

SCHULTZ: Go. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Sorry about that.

ASHA RANGAPPA, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: The question is going to be how many links in the chain they can establish between these militia groups and going up to Trump. You know, if you look at the indictments for these groups especially the Oath Keepers that were charged with seditious conspiracy, they fully understood their role that day. They had a preplanned role which was to take over and they had a cache of arms and supplies outside of the city to last them for 30 days. They were there to pressure lawmakers and the vice president and they understood that they were waiting for some kind of signal from President Trump.

So, the question is -- from the other side -- where was this being communicated from? It was being communicated by someone. There was coordination there.

And my question is to your point can they make it all the way to Trump himself? Because he is a famously savvy non- communicator if you will. He doesn't use email. He doesn't use text. He's about talking in code among his inner circle.

So, I would be very interested to see how far they can take that chain.

BURNETT: Jim, what's your view of that?

SCHULTZ: I look at it the same way, right? They're trying to find some type of link there. Now, what we -- a lot of times when we were grand jury -- when you are running a grand jury, you're going to know a lot of the answers to those questions to witness interviews and the like.

I don't believe the congressional folks know all the answers to these questions they are going to ask going into it. So, it's a different situation but they are going to look for that.

BURNETT: All right. So, all this brings me to Steve Bannon, right, who, you know, has been fighting a subpoena for months and is now saying I will come in. It appears to be a mockery of the process.

However, the former president comes out and says, oh, I'm going to wave my privilege. Now, it's not his to waive. That would reside with the current president to wave it. Then Trump's attorney told the FBI never actually invoked executive privilege in this case. So, what's actually going on here?

HONIG: So, I'm a skeptic about this whole thing, count me as no a Bannon believer, not a Trump believer in this instance.

Here's what I think is happening. I think two things. One, they want to set up this spectacle and say, okay, committee, I'll come in, I'll testify under oath. Just give the microphone. The committee is never going to do that. And that enables Trump and Bannon to say, to play the martyr, to say they are not --

BURNETT: We tried, we tried.

HONIG: We tried. We were so eager.

I think this is also a flimsy effort to beef up his defense which starts a week from today. Now, the judge rejected all of that today and shut it down, but I think what he was hoping for was a defense along the line of how can you convict me for contempt when I'm willing to justify? But the judge saw right to it and it's not going to help him at all.

BURNETT: Right. Of course, he's been fighting a subpoena for months and months and months. It seems a little bit absurd.

But, Jim, you do know both Trump and Bannon. What do you make of this dance that we're seeing right now?

SCHULTZ: Look, you don't have to go much further than listen to Bannon's radio shows and other things to realize that he's going to go in there with a very aggressive posture here. It is -- he's going to be on the offense on that side of the ball on this and really take folks to task and, you know, it's not going to be the normal give and take that you've seen so far in terms of cooperating witnesses. He is a witness that is going to go in and testify.

Now, if he goes in and pleads the Fifth we can think that is his way of saying I went in and testify and pled the Fifth. If he goes in aggressively and not -- what I expect him to do and all of us expect him to do I think -- it's to go in aggressively and try to make a mockery of the whole process.

BURNETT: All right. Asha, do you think that will happen? RANGAPPA: No, I don't think he will want to testify unless he can do

it publicly. And remember, Erin, the committee really has the leverage here. He is no longer able to use this, you know, I'm complying to muddy the waters in terms of his defense for his trial. It can only help him perhaps his sentencing.

And for Bannon, you know, there are a lot of risks for him to go and testify whether it is publicly or not under oath because the committee has so much information. This is voluminous information that if Bannon tries to obfuscate or lie to protect Trump, he can then end up walking into yet another crime, perjury or making false statements.

So, I think that he's got some big choices to make in terms of how to move forward.

BURNETT: All right. Thank you all very much.

And this weekend CNN, don't miss a special report on Steve Bannon, "Steve Bannon: Divided We Fall". It is Sunday night at 8:00. And, of course, those hearings are tomorrow. We'll be here for that.

And OUTFRONT next, investigators digging into what the parents of the gunmen behind the Highland Park massacre before the attack in which seven people were killed. The family's attorney is next.

[19:15:01]

Plus, bailing on Biden. A new poll shows 64 percent of Democrats do not want Biden to be their nominee in 2004. But if not Biden, then who?

And a motive for murder. A suspected gunman who assassinated former Prime Minister Shinzo Abe reportedly revealing why he targeted the popular former prime minister.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: Tonight, Cooper Roberts, the eight-year-old boy paralyzed after being shot at the Highland Park July 4 parade, is undergoing surgery for a damaged esophagus. The family's spokesperson adding that Cooper now knows he is paralyzed and is in a great deal of physical and emotional pain. It comes as large crowds gathered today a week after the deadly shooting in which seven were killed and dozens were wounded.

Adrienne Broaddus is OUTFRONT in Highland Park. And, Adrienne, what more are you hearing from the members of the community tonight?

ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Erin, good evening to you. People here tell me they are taking it one day at a time. Everyone is dealing with their grief in various ways. Some have shown up to this memorial that you referenced, which is right behind me.

I will step out of the way because I really want those of you watching and listening at home to take a look. This is the newest memorial that popped up over the weekend. Now that the parade route is back open. [19:20:03]

Here you see the seven faces of all of the deceased. A local artist has created these portraits and he says he wants to give them to members of the family.

I spoke with another woman who saw the shooter and witnessed people dying in front of her. She's no longer in town. She had to get out of town, she says, to clear her mind and she has utilized some of the resources here in the city, including counseling.

One mom we talked to who was her at the parade said children are still afraid.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They are scared and terrified. They hid in the basement for a whole day when we got home.

We drove through Chicago yesterday and my son was looking at the rooftops to make sure nobody was on the rooftops and just -- a 10- year-old shouldn't have to say or think of such things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROADDUS: And the family of Cooper Roberts is telling us they left the eight-year-old over the weekend that he is no longer able to walk. The spokesperson telling us Cooper is still in a great deal of physical and emotional pain.

Meanwhile, the road to recovery for Cooper is a long one and some of the other victims, too, those who were released from the hospital as well as their families -- Erin.

BURNETT: Adrienne, thank you very much. Terrific to hear that story.

And for more on this, I want to bring in George Gomez. He's the attorney for the family of the accused Highland Park shooter, of the accused Highland Park shooter.

So, George, I appreciate your time.

And I want to start by asking you some of the questions for the family. I will start right at the heart of the matter. Why the father sponsored his son for a firearms permit even after the police said he had made both homicidal and suicidal threats.

You said you are confident that neither of the parents will face any criminal charges. But in that context, sponsoring that license even after those rights remain, why you have that confidence?

GEORGE GOMEZ, ATTORNEY FOR FAMILY OF HIGHLAND PARK SHOOTER: Well, you know, his father in actuality consented for his son to go through the process of giving him the cards. The son still has to go through the process and get various background checks. I don't really know the details or the exact details of how that process works. But nonetheless -- the Illinois state police department reviewed the police reports from 2018 and they still found that the sun was eligible for a FOID card.

In regards to the 2019 police reports -- like I already stated before, the parents have already disputed the accuracy of those reports. Especially that of September 2019. According to the parents -- the police were called based on a domestic dispute. They dispute that son had ever commented about trying to kill himself or any type of suicide or even trying to kill anyone in the household.

If you look at the police reports it does state that they did speak to the son and he also denied ever trying to harm somebody and trying to harm himself.

BURNETT: Okay. When those reports came in -- I understand you're saying they dispute the nature of them. But when they came in, there was one in April, suicidal. And one in September, right, that was the homicidal one that you are taking issue with. But at that time when the police came, the father handed over 16 knives in the home, a dagger and a samurai blade to local police. That as we understand what they handed.

The local police found it so disturbing that they sent to state police with a, clear and present danger report about the son. Now, I mean, I think everybody in this country, George, probably you yourself look at this and say -- 16 knives, a dagger and a samurai sword and threats -- and you can dispute the nature of some of them -- but how is it possible that those parents did not think it was possible there was something deeply wrong with their son?

GOMEZ: Well, those collections were actually collectibles. That's what the parents have stated before. There is nothing in the report that states that those were ever used. I believe that the police were called, every cooperated. And I think the question was, was there any weapons in the home?

Obviously, as they cooperated with authorities they provided any weapons that were there. They interpret that is that a collection. So, obviously, the parents didn't see anything wrong or any harm that was being done.

[19:25:02]

But, you know, at the end of the day, the officers were there. They assessed the situation and they provided those collectibles back, right?

BURNETT: No, they certainly did provide them. I mean, no one is saying they didn't. Look, I'm not even asking you about his social media because it's understandable when parents don't know about that, but they certainly did know about the picture painted on the side of his mother's house, of a person with a smiley holding a gun.

And even after the shooting, the father told "The New York Post" that his son was merely, quote, expressing his art and it didn't and it -- quote, didn't really mean anything. Well, I mean, again -- again, George, the preponderance of things that were happening here -- a picture on the side of the house, 16 knives, dagger, samurai collection, homicidal and suicidal threats. You can question each of them in any context you want but when you add them up -- you know, people across this country look at this and they see seven people dead and that eight-year-old boy we just heard about, and they say, oh, my god, if the father hadn't sponsored that thing, maybe something would have been different.

Why isn't that the right way to see this?

GOMEZ: Well, I think in hindsight when you look at everything -- you know, of course, the father would have never consented for his son to apply for the FOID card. I believe that the parents would have done things differently. If they had known their son would have been able to commit such atrocities and would have, in hindsight, been able to see and connected all the dots at the end of the day.

But I think this question would probably haunt any parent put in that same position. But, look, the parents feel terrible for the actions of their son, for the loss of those who lost their lives and for the devastation that it's caused the community.

BURNETT: All right. Well, George, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much for coming on and for answering the questions. Thanks.

GOMEZ: Thank you.

BURNETT: And next, the father who lost his son in a Parkland, Florida, school shooting interrupting President Biden as he celebrated the first bipartisan gun safety law to pass the U.S. in decades.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have to do more than that! You have to do more than that!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Plus, NASA releasing an incredible new image of our universe from the most powerful telescope ever made. And we're going to tell you what you are looking at right there. It is truly not just beautiful but remarkable.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:31:23]

BURNETT: Tonight, 64 percent of Democrats say they prefer a candidate other than Joe Biden to be on the top of their 2024 ticket. The reason more frequently cited in a New York Times/Siena College poll is Biden's age. Biden will be just a few weeks shy a couple of weeks shy of his 82nd birthday on Election Day.

It comes as his approval rating remains consistently low at 33 overall, which is lower even than Trump's was at this point in his presidency. OUTFRONT now, CNN senior reporter Edward-Isaac Dovere.

And, Isaac, I really appreciate this.

OK, so you have been -- you know, even over the weekend, you're talking to more and more prominent Democrats. Tell me what you are hearing about some of these other alternatives that people are throwing out there. You know, who are they? What are you hearing?

EDWARD-ISAAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Look, Erin, some of the names going around are Governor Gavin Newsom of California, Governor J.B. Pritzker of Illinois, even Congressman Ro Khanna from California, the governor of Colorado, Jared Polis. I talked to each of them and spoke to people for them. Pete Buttigieg, too, Elizabeth Warren, they all said absolutely not. Not running against him. There will not be a primary challenge from me, and they also said there should not be a primary challenge from anyone. Newsom said to me that it's important that the party unify and not fall victim to divisions from within.

And you see that sense going around. Joe Biden was in Texas earlier today, at a fundraiser and she said Republicans stick together. Democrats are fighting over differences of degree and they can fall apart. That's what the sense here, that Democrats need to unify behind Biden right here at least until we know he is not running but he does say he is running and that seems to be the plan for everyone involved.

BURNETT: All right. So, you have been talking to people about this overall issue. The biggest reason Democrats don't want Biden to be their nominee is his age. His age is an absolute fact and it is an objective reality. People's perception, of course, can be shaped by a lot of things. How much of this age is a serious concern are you hearing from the Democrats you've spoken to?

DOVERE: It is a serious concern. He is the oldest president ever. He was the oldest president the day he was sworn in. He will be older by election day in 2004, and putting him in front of the country at that point and electing him to stay president until he's almost 86 years old. That is a big deal and one of the concerns that is there beyond just doing the job now is what it would look like to campaign in 2024 when he would be two years older than he is now but also when they're being many more demands on his time and his schedule, and it's a taxing thing to run for president.

This is on a lot of minds in addition to just the questions of generationally what the Democratic Party is and wants to be.

BURNETT: All right. Isaac, thank you so much for your reporting.

I want to go now to veteran Democratic strategist James Carville, just to respond to this reporting of Isaac's and this poll.

So, James, 64 percent of Democrats do not want Biden who is the Democratic president of the United States to be their nominee. So, let's just take that. It is a data point. It's not forever, but it is an important data point. How concerned should the president be right now? JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: What I think he is doing is

concentrating on getting his Medicare extended and having the federal government be able to negotiate prescription drug prices. And if he accomplishes those two things -- I know he's going to be working hard on the midterm. Right now, I'm totally focused on 2022, after that, if he has some more legislative successes -- we will do pretty good in the midterm. He will evaluate what he is.

[19:35:08]

But as of now, I don't see indication that other than he's running --

BURNETT: Right.

CARVILLE: -- and they are pretty adamant about it.

BURNETT: Well, look, and, you know, in the sense you got to be, because the minute you signal you're not, then you lose any leverage you have to get anything done. I completely understand that strategically, James. Just talk about the issue here that people seem to be so focused on right now.

David Gergen, you know him really well, right? I know him really well. He is always very thoughtful and he said -- and I want to quote his comment here.

I do feel it is inappropriate to seek that office after you are 80 or in your 80s. I just turned 80 and I found over the last two or three years, I think it would be -- it would have been unwise for me to try to run any organization. You are not quite as sharp as you once were.

The age issue, of course, isn't going to go away, and, of course, time only goes in one direction.

CARVILLE: It is not going to go away. I suspect they don't much like the story but they will have to deal with it. And honestly, the only way you can deal with it and show accomplishments and some political accomplishments. But, you know, God willing, I'm going to be 80 on Election Day. I might catch David before this is over with.

But voters are very aware of this. I mean, it's one thing people can relate to at his age. They are just going to have to deal with this after the midterm. There is no question about it. You know, time is not going to let this story go.

BURNETT: No.

CARVILLE: Honestly, I don't see any evidence of anybody else. You just have to deal with it.

BURNETT: So, let me ask you about the context. I want to play something from his event today about the gun legislation passing Congress. Of course, James, as you and I know, nothing has been passed in decades on this, OK?

So to get something is really significant and important. It wasn't anywhere near what the president wanted but it wasn't near what he wanted. He was interrupted in the middle of his speech by the father of a Parkland school shooting victim. Here's what happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's proof that despite the naysayers, we can make progress on dealing with gun violence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have to do more than that! You have to do more than that! (INAUDIBLE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: That was a bill that he could get, right? It was that or nothing. But nonetheless, that's the criticism and he is also getting the same criticism for things like what is he doing on abortion after Roe v. Wade, right? It's sort of go further and further, and not necessarily from the far left. It's broader then maybe somewhere specific.

So, how big of a challenge is that?

CARVILLE: In today's challenge. And, by the way, if I lost a child to a gun that President -- Senator Biden and President Clinton banned between 19 -- that was in 1994. I would be extremely upset by this. This gentleman understandably is but we live in a world of practicality is a decision. You have this gun decision out of New York state. You know it was quite an accomplishment to get this bill I'll be the first to admit. And was a step in the right direction.

I think if you make it into an issue -- the only way you will change this is a voter intervention. That's the only thing that's going to change and I understand -- people are looking out to Illinois. But what's really the only thing that can change is the voters take charge because right now, I'm sorry. The president has got a 50-50 Senate and a 4-seat congressional majority, and a Supreme Court that's pulled out every common sense left in this country.

BURNETT: The reality of math.

James Carville, thanks very much.

CARVILLE: Erin, thank you.

BURNETT: All right. And, next, a man accused of assassinating Shinzo Abe, reportedly revealing why he killed the former Japanese prime minister.

And new intelligence tonight on who is coming to Russia's aid as its deadly, unprovoked war drags on.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:43:02]

BURNETT: Tonight, new details are emerging about Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's suspected killer, 41-year-old this thing he targeted him because of a grudge, according to Japanese media. The suspect telling investigators and I quote, I had a grudge against a particular religious group, and I thought that former Prime Minister Abe had a close relationship with his group. My mother got into a group, and made a large donation and my family life is messed up.

The suspect has not named a name, but the unification church is a Christian group known for mass weddings and links to conservative political parties. It released a statement saying the mother at the suspect is a member of that church.

CNN has not confirmed this with the suspect's mother.

Matthew Chance is OUTFRONT in Nara, Japan, where Prime Minister Abe was shot and killed.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In stunned silence, they came to lay flowers and pay their last respects. The people of Japan are reeling at the killing of Shinzo Abe and their most prominent politician gunned down in a country where gun crime is virtually unheard of.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think he's the greatest prime minister.

CHANCE: The greatest prime minister.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's unbelievable thing happened in Japan.

CHANCE: Just disbelief.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah, I can't believe this is happening in Japan.

CHANCE: This is the moment Shinzo Abe was attacked, addressing a campaign rally here in the Japanese city of Nara.

The first shot seems to miss. It is the second that proves fatal and causes panic.

Here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here.

CHANCE: So, this is where Shinzo Abe was standing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, yes.

CHANCE: Eyewitnesses like this local newspaper reporter told me he watched the former prime minister motionless and bleeding, amid desperate attempts to revive him.

[19:45:00] This has happened once he says. We all know it could happen again.

What everyone here is talking about how utterly shocked they are that anyone, let alone a prominent figure like Shinzo Abe, could be gunned down so easily in the streets. Unlike in the United States, guns and gun crime here in Japan are incredibly rare.

What police say motivated the alleged assassin in this killing over here, remember, that's where the killing took place, is a deep hatred of what they say was a certain group to which the killer believed Shinzo was linked.

Can we have a look at the damage? Just very quickly please?

Japanese police are still refusing to name that group but we return back from a building where the officers told us the suspect may have test-fired his makeshift gun. A blue tarp covers the damage and sign reveals a South Korean group, Unification Church, has premises there.

The church denies Abe had any formal links but says the mother of his suspected killer is an active member although CNN has been unable to confirm that. Police tell CNN the arrested suspect as being cooperative and that he has expressed no regret for his actions.

While stunned neighbors in his apartment block told us he always seemed a bit quite and a bit weird. He looked miserable, Tamako (ph) says. When I said hello to him, he never even responded. He seemed in his own little world, she says -- the world that for Japan has now forever changed.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BURNETT: It is so hard to imagine what happened here.

Matthew, what the police said to you about the links between that church, the unification Church, and the murder -- the assassination of Shinzo Abe?

CHANCE: They've not said a great deal. They're very tight-lipped, Erin, even by the opaque standards of the Japanese, the Japanese police. They're being absolutely -- they're careful that they do not create that link between the Unification Church and killing of Shinzo Abe. Before that is they say maybe out there that perhaps shared the animosity that this suspected had for the group and may want to also carry out attacks. So, they're keeping schtum to protect other members of that religious organization.

Having said that, there are these links that are gradually emerging, connecting Shinzo Abe, his family and the family of the suspected assassin with this religious organization.

BURNETT: Matthew Chance, thank you so much in Nara tonight.

And next, Ukraine's million man army and that is not all Ukraine says it is assembling right now to try to fight and push Russia back from the south. Plus, a breathtaking new image of our universe from NASA's $10 billion new telescope. This is light. I mean, earlier, I said time only goes in one direction, you got to wonder, right? This is a 13 billion year old image.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:52:14]

BURNETT: Tonight, U.S. intelligence indicating Iran is preparing to provide Russia with drones, including capable and ready for use in Ukraine. And Ukraine's defense minister says he's assembling a million men army to fight -- to fight back and to recover, in fact, the territory that it has lost from Russia in the south. It is saying they will do this and bolster their offensive with western weapons.

The war has no end in sight. This has forced ordinary Ukrainian citizens to do extra ordinary things in the name of survival as we are now many months into the incomprehensible.

Alex Marquardt is OUTFRONT in Kharkiv.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEXANDER MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In a boarded-up pharmacy in Kharkiv, we follow Yulia Klimeniuk down into the basement. They never used this space before the war. Now, it holds shelf after shelf of vital donated medicine while also serving another purpose.

As we've been down here. We can hear some heavy shelling from up above. That is not very common at this part of the day, in mid morning. Thankfully, we are already down in the basement, where we need to be.

That shelling killed at least six city residents. Yulia and her team are unfazed. Preparing to head out on a monthly visit to multiple frontline villages which desperately need hard to get medicine, medical supplies, and basics like baby formula.

The pharmacy comes to the village, she says. Pharmacies are either destroyed or there are no pharmacists. People need medicine.

The lead vehicle in the convoy is an ambulance. When it arrives in the first village, its sirens ring out to tell everyone they're here. Soon, a line has formed in the rain. All retirees, young parents with their kids, anyone who's left here seems to come out, including a village doctor.

We really need medication. We don't have a local pharmacy. We have nowhere to buy anything, she says. Insulin, heart, and blood pressure drugs are at the top of her last along with sedatives and antidepressants.

Animals are a priority, too. Another car is full of dog food for pets, like Bikal (ph), whose owner Igor says Bikal is shell-shocked from all the explosions.

This village had been occupied by Russian forces, and caught between the warring sides. Scars of the fighting very visible, as is the Russian retreat.

When the Russians occupied this village, a man who lives here says that they would talk their tanks and armored vehicles between houses and cover them up to try to hide them, but the Ukrainians retook the village. They blew up and destroyed this armored vehicle.

After about an hour, the team packs up and moves on to a poorer, rural village just 25 kilometers or 16 miles from the closest Russian position.

[19:55:08]

Here, the residents gather around even faster. The profound need for aid is clear. While we are there, a team from World Central Kitchen arrives to hand out meals. Another eager line forms.

Many of the Ukrainians we met were forced to live in the basements of their own homes while Russians occupied them, Yulia tells us. They are helpless, held hostage by this situation, she says. We help because they cannot provide for themselves.

Alex Marquardt, CNN in Kharkiv.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BURNETT: Our thanks to Alex from Kharkiv tonight.

And next, NASA just releasing an incredible image from its new satellite and what it reveals. It's our deepest view yet into our own past.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: Jaw-dropping image that is decades and $10 billion in the making and 13 billion years. NASA releases the first image from the revolutionary James Webb space telescope. We're going to get a few more tomorrow. But what you are looking at right now is light that is 13 billion years old.

Those images is 13 billion light years away. Some of these galaxies, these beautiful dots, you can almost years old. Those images is 13 billion light years away.

Some of these galaxies, these beautiful dots, you can almost feel the motion, right? They're so massive they actually bend light from other galaxies, which you can see in the center of your screen. The light is actually bent.

This image is a speck. Just to give you perspective, it is a speck of the universe. To the naked eye, if you're looking at the universe, this picture would be about the size of a grain of sand if you held it up to the sky. Talk about some perspective. Thanks for joining us.

"AC360" starts now.