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Erin Burnett Outfront
At Least 8 Fake Trump Electors Cut Immunity Deals In Georgia Probe; Trump Deposition Video Released In Rape Case: "She's A Liar"; Head Of Russian Private Army Threatens To Pull Out Of Bakhmut; NY D.A. Weighing To Arrest Subway Chokehold Death Suspect; Prince Harry Attending King's Coronation Amid Public Family Rift; DHS Secretary: Border Surge Will Be "Extremely Challenging" Next Week. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired May 05, 2023 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:30]
PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next, breaking news. Fake electors for Trump cut a deal in Georgia. So what does this mean for the Fulton County D.A.'s case?
And it comes as Trump's deposition in the E. Jean Carroll rape case is released. Will he end up taking the stand?
Plus, all-out war between Russians. The head of Russia's private army now vowing to pull his fighters from the front lines as he tears into the Kremlin all in the eve of a Ukrainian counteroffensive.
And his city was under siege by a gunman on the loose on lockdown for hours. Now, the Atlanta mayor has a message for America. He's my guest.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening. I'm Pamela Brown, in for Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, breaking news. Trump's fake electors cut a deal. Eight Republican fake electors from Georgia who were central in attempts to overturn the 2020 election have just been granted immunity. Striking that deal with Fulton County's district attorney Fani Willis who has said she could file criminal charges against former President Trump and his allies as early as this summer.
Georgia is ground zero for investigators when it comes to Trump's election schemes. And all of this could put Trump himself in more jeopardy, legal jeopardy. This major development comes as Trump's videotaped deposition in E. Jean Carroll's rape and defamation case against him has just been released.
Under oath, Trump was combative, and his attacks were personal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT: He's accusing me of rape, of raping her. The worst thing you can do, the worst charge. It's a big fat hoax. She's a liar and she's a sick person in my opinion, really sick. Something wrong with her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: The president also pressed about his infamous comments from that "Access Hollywood" tape where he talked about having the right to grope women.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Well, historically, that's true with stars.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's true with stars that they can grab women by the pussy?
TRUMP: Well, that's -- if you look over the last million years, I guess that's been largely true, not always, but largely true, unfortunately, or fortunately.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you consider yourself to be a star?
TRUMP: I think you can say that, yeah.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Unfortunately or fortunately.
The jury heard this deposition yesterday, and now the question, will Trump take the stand and go before that jury. The judge in the case is giving the former president a deadline of 5:00 p.m. on Sunday to make up his mind on whether he'll testify.
We have reporters covering both stories tonight. I want to start with Sara Murray.
Sara, you have been covering the case in Georgia. What else do we know about these immunity deals and what it could mean for Trump?
SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we learned from a court filing today that eight of these Republican fake electors in the state of Georgia, at least of them, had accepted these immunity deals in exchange for sharing information with prosecutors. And this is significant because previously the district attorney in this case had told all 16 Republican fake electors that they were targets as part of her investigation. As you can imagine, Pam, that made it difficult to get any testimony from them.
And, so in, cutting these deals, she is able to get insight into a key area of her investigation into election interference in Georgia. And that's, of course, the fake elector probe, the effort to put forward these fake slates of Republican Trump electors to block the certification of the 2020 presidential election results.
Now, the district attorney had previously said that these electors were flipping on each other or incriminating each other. One of the lawyers involved in this insists they are not. But, again, this is more information for the district attorney to weigh to consider as she decides who to bring charges against in this case.
She has said she's going to make her announcement about who if anyone will be facing charges between July and September. We've been told part of what was influencing that time line to try to get these cooperators and sift through whatever information they could provide. You know, she's been looking at potential conspiracy charges, potential racketeering charges, and as part of that, you really want to look at how all of this information fits together.
So what do these folks know about who is directing this effort in Georgia, who might've been directing it from the Trump campaign's point of view, what did potentially Donald Trump know about this effort? And she's going to try to piece all of that together in deciding who to bring charges against.
BROWN: Yeah, this immunity key development in this case. Sara, thanks so much.
And this is coming just hours after the release of Trump's nearly hour-long deposition in the civil rape and defamation case.
[19:05:02]
That's another case where he appears to be vulnerable.
Paula Reid is OUTFRONT with more on the highly combative and hostile deposition.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TRUMP: She's accusing me of rape, a woman that I have no idea who she is.
PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Brand-new video released showing former President Donald Trump being grilled for nearly an hour in the civil battery and defamation case that writer E. Jean Carroll brought against him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What you're saying there is -- Ms. Carroll fabricated her claim that you sexually assaulted her, correct?
TRUMP: Yes. Totally, 100 percent.
REID: The tape coming out in evidence during a weeks-long trial all centered around Carroll's allegation that Trump forced himself on her in a New York department store in the 1990s, a claim Trump has denied both in public and during his deposition under oath in October of last year.
TRUMP: She said that I did something to her that never took place. I will tell you I made that statement, and I said, well, it's politically incorrect, she's not my type. And that's 100 percent true, she's not my type.
REID: Trump at times getting combative with Carroll's lawyers questioning him. TRUMP: The worst thing you can do, the worst charge, and you know
it's not true, too, you're a political operative also. You're a disgrace.
REID: At one point, Trump confusing Carroll for his ex-wife in a 1980s photo with him in it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You say Marla's in the photo?
TRUMP: That's Marla, yeah, that's my wife.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Which woman are you pointing to?
TRUMP: Here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The person you just pointed to was E. Jean Carroll.
REID: This was the only time the jury in the trial heard from Trump, as there's now no plan for him to testify, and closing arguments are expected early next week.
Carroll took the stand early in the trial, telling the jury, I'm here because Donald Trump raped me. And when I wrote about it, he said it didn't happen. He lied and shattered my reputation, and I'm here to try to get my life back.
Trump's lawyer Joe Tacopina, known for his brash and sometimes confrontational style defending clients pressed Carroll on her allegations. Using your own words, the facts you have alleged in this story, you have alleged here are odd, Tacopina said. Carroll responded, certain parts of this story are difficult to conceive of. Yes.
Tacopina pressed Carroll on why she wasn't making a scene during the alleged assault. I'm not a screamer. I was too much in panic to scream. You can't beat up on me for not screaming. Tacopina shot back, I'm not beating you up, I'm asking you questions, Ms. Carroll.
Through tears, Carroll asserted, I'm telling you he raped me, whether I screamed or not. I don't need an excuse for not screaming.
(END VIDETAPE)
REID (on camera): One of the lawyers on one of Trump's criminal cases said he would prefer that Trump not get on the stand in this case as he's concerned about how he could potentially open himself up to further legal jeopardy. Now, the jury is expected to start deliberations after closing arguments wrap up early next week -- Pam.
BROWN: All right. Paula, thanks so much.
OUTFRONT now, Ryan Goodman, former special counsel at the Defense Department.
So, a lot to talk about on this Friday night, Ryan. Let's start with Georgia. How significant is it that at least eight of these fake electors for Donald Trump have accepted these immunity deals?
RYAN GOODMAN, FORMER SPECIAL COUNSEL, DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE: It's very significant. The district attorney seems to have a multipronged criminal investigation, but one of those prongs is about the fake electors, these individuals who try to sign these documents claiming that they were the rightful electors in the state that Joe Biden had won, and that also seems to be a part of the federal criminal investigation.
But here, she's got eight people who are now fully cooperating. They could be people who had given narrative to the jury if there's an indictment, explaining what happened on the inside. And she gets them on her side so that she can work her way up the chain of command.
Who is up that chain of command? Just based on the January 6th Select Committee's report, Rudy Giuliani is running the fake electors scheme. Mark Meadows has his hands fully deep in it, according to Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony that only came out in the final report. He has charts of all the fake electors. He's making dozens of phone calls and meetings about it.
And Donald Trump does not keep his hands clean. He actually has a phone conversation with the head of the RNC getting the RNC to organize the fake electors. So I think that's what's very significant in the case because it might very well mean she can break with these individuals into the upper echelon of the scheme that she's looking into.
BROWN: Yeah, and the fact that there's eight she can corroborate their stories, align their stories. So it seems significant.
I want to turn now to Trump's deposition. Let's replay that moment where Donald Trump confuses a photo of his accuser, E. Jean Carroll there on the left, with his second wife Marla Maples.
[19:10:07]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I don't even know who the woman -- let's see, I don't know who -- it's Marla.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You say Marla's in this photo?
TRUMP: That's Marla, yeah. That's my wife.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Which woman are you pointing to?
TRUMP: Here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The person you just pointed to was E. Jean Carroll.
TRUMP: Oh, I see. Who is that person?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the woman on the right is your then-wife Ivana.
TRUMP: I don't know, this was the picture.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So, he thought his accuser here E. Jean Carroll was actually his ex-wife, which is notable, Ryan, because he had said throughout his deposition that he was -- would never be attracted to E. Jean Carroll.
So, does this just completely undercut his case, one would think he'd be attracted to his ex-wife, right?
GOODMAN: Yes. And you think his ex-wife would be his type, since he married her. There's so many damning parts of the deposition. I must imagine his defense counsel don't like it from so many different angles.
On this particular episode, absolutely, it goes to the heart of what he's been saying, not my type. Obviously, he's failing to distinguish E. Jean Carroll from his own wife, suggests it would be his type.
Second, it also goes to the real theory behind the case that this is an act of rape from a misogynist. He's finding two women indistinguishable, can't even extinguish his wife from the accuser in the case. It goes to the misogyny of the actual argument that he wouldn't have raped her because she wasn't his type, which is grotesque, because if she was his type, he would?
And a certain -- other point in the deposition, she says of the female lawyer for E. Jean Carroll, that she's not his type. And the jury will see the entire deposition. So, just a remarkable set of moments to witness and now the entire American public gets to see this as well.
BROWN: Yeah, he got very, very personal several times throughout it.
I want to turn to other reporting coming in tonight from our Paula Reid. She is reporting that Hunter Biden, the president's son, is taking a more aggressive legal strategy as he faces possible charges for alleged tax and gun crimes. He hired famed defense attorney Abbe Lowell. He represented Jared Kushner. He's been around D.C. a long time. The strategy caused, we're told, anxiety at the White House.
What does it tell you about how serious the case against Hunter Biden may be?
GOODMAN: So it sounds as though this is because Hunter Biden's team thinks that the case is maybe not as serious against them, that they feel emboldened. So the CNN report says in fact they decided to launch into this approach after months had gone by in which there was no movement in the case. And that the charges, if they are boiling down to tax crimes and the gun related crime rather than something that could have been gigantic in terms of money laundering, that might be the other reason that it's emboldening them, sort of --
BROWN: Can I just quickly ask you a question because we're running out of time?
GOODMAN: Yeah.
BROWN: If it was just about -- and there's a lot we don't know -- but if it was just about the tax and the gun crime, and this has been going on for months and months and months, wouldn't that already be brought?
GOODMAN: You would have thought -- I would have thought that they would have made a decision one way or the other by this time because they have had all the information and they've been sitting on the information. And as the defense attorneys knew as well that there had been no movement for months, there's something odd in that. And we've had reports from "The Washington Post" and also in the CNN report that there's an IRS agent that has been worried about the fact that there is not more movement.
The so-called whistle-blower, who might be a whistleblower, has actually said that they think that there's been politicization because the case is not bigger than it otherwise is. So that is consistent with this emboldened approach on Hunter Biden's part.
BROWN: All right. Ryan Goodman, thanks so much. Again, good to see you.
And OUTFRONT next, an ultimatum from Putin's private army. The head of the Wagner group demanding ammunition, or he is threatening to pull out of Bakhmut. We are live in Ukraine.
Plus, demands for answers as another day passes without an arrest in the New York subway chokehold death.
And people lining up overnight just hours before King Charles' coronation. We are live in London with Richard Quest.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:18:03]
BROWN: Tonight, Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin is lashing out against the Kremlin. The head of Russia's private army is threatening to pull his men out of Bakhmut just as Ukraine prepares to launch its counteroffensive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YEVGENY PRIGOZHIN, CHIEF OF WAGNER PRIVATE MILITARY COMPANY (through translator): My guys will not be taking useless fights in Bakhmut without ammunition. So, on May 10, 2023, we are pulling out of Bakhmut.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Prigozhin is also vowing to make sure Putin's top defense officials take the fall for the tens of thousands of men killed in what he called a, quote, heavy merciless bloody war.
And he isn't the only one lashing out. You're looking right here at a summit in Turkey. Just watch as a Russian delegate storms over to the Ukrainian delegate and takes his flag -- wow. The scuffle, of course, nothing compared with the ongoing bloodshed on the ground in Ukraine.
Nic Robertson is OUTFRONT tonight in eastern Ukraine.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
YEVGENY PRIGOZHIN, HEAD OF WAGNER GROUP (translated): These guys here are Wagner men who died today. The blood is still fresh. Film all of them.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): Russia's top mercenary is turning on Moscow again with a vengeance.
PRIGOZHIN (translated): You **** who aren't giving (us) ammunition, you b****** will in hell have your guts eaten out!
ROBERTSON: Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin screaming at President Putin's defense minister and army chief of staff, accusing them of killing his troops in Bakhmut by starving them of ammunition.
PRIGOZHIN (through translator): We are pulling out of Bakhmut. We have only two or so kilometers left to capture out of 45.
ROBERTSON: Hours later, an ultimatum -- send ammo or he'll pull his troops out of Bakhmut just as they are close to taking it.
Also troubling for the Kremlin, Prigozhin hired Mikhail Mizintsev as a Wagner deputy commander.
[19:20:01]
Until last week, he was Russia's deputy defense minister. It hints at a pending Wagner/Kremlin showdown.
Ukraine's military spokesman says Bakhmut could be at a turning point if Russia doesn't fix its ammunition supply problem. He also says that Prigozhin cannot afford to continue losing troops at this rate. If he does, the spokesman says, Wagner will be destroyed. Prigozhin, he says, has no option but to pull out.
Prigozhin's machinations having no impact on the fighting around the devastated city Friday. Both sides still feeding men into the front lines known as Ukraine's meat grinder.
And the fighting not just on the battlefield. In Turkey, a Russian diplomat rips down the Ukrainian flag and is quickly punched at a parliamentary assembly intended to get both sides to agree to an extension to the U.N.-brokered Black Sea grain deal.
Russia's diplomats also hitting out at the United States. Deputy foreign minister Sergei Ryabkov announcing the U.S. and Russia are on the verge of open-armed conflict, a further escalation of recent unsubstantiated Kremlin rhetoric claiming the United States directed Ukraine to fly drones over the Kremlin in an attempt to assassinate President Putin, an allegation both Kyiv and Washington categorically deny.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTSON (on camera): And tonight, there are early indications that perhaps Ukraine's counteroffensive is getting close in the Russian- controlled part of Zaporizhzhia oblast region. The Russian controlled area is beginning to bus civilians out of towns that they say are seeing increased levels of heavy shelling. That is an area where Russia is concerned about the possibility of a counteroffensive, and busing people out is exactly what the Russians did in Kherson last year just before the Ukrainians advanced in that area -- many of those civilians ending up being taken to Russia.
BROWN: Nic Robertson, thank you so much. That is telling.
OUTFRONT now, former director of national intelligence and retired U.S. Air Force Lieutenant General James Clapper.
So, you just heard this ultimatum issued by Wagner boss Prigozhin, send ammunition or he is withdrawing his troops from Bakhmut by May 10th.
Does this surprise you that a private army would issue an ultimatum like this to the actual military in Russia?
JAMES CLAPPER, FORMER DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLLIGENCE: Well, Pamela, to me, this is emblematic of the disarray of this whole operation. Here you have a private army not responsible or responsive necessarily to the Russian minister of defense, laying down an ultimatum to pull out unless he gets appropriate allocation of ammunition. You can sympathize with him.
But, to me, this is so characteristic of disarray here where one of the most effective fighting forces, and this is a relative term, a relative characterization of Russia is a private army. It's not even the official armed forces of Russia.
So, for him to do this and do it publicly, I suspect this sort of thing has been bubbling up privately for some time. But for him to do it publicly is a pretty bold thing. I would think he will avoid going above a second story in any building and stay away from windows. So it's quite remarkable that he would speak publicly and so critically.
BROWN: Yeah, he used, he was a key Putin ally, right? And for him to speak publicly like this criticizing Russia, it really is striking. And it makes you wonder whether Putin could win this war without the help of Wagner troops. What do you think?
CLAPPER: Well, I think he's in a bad place anyway in terms of winning the war. There are many that think he's already lost it. There's a shortfall in manpower, whether they're a private army like the Wagner group, or the Russian military. They are just going to run out of people, manpower, at the rate they are killing their own troops by subjecting them to essentially a meat grinder.
So, this -- it's just, again, so emblematic of the whole -- of the failure of the whole Russian effort.
BROWN: And then there are these mysterious drone attacks on the Kremlin.
[19:25:03]
And I spoke yesterday with an exiled Russian lawmaker who told me that the drones were the work of Russian partisans. He says he knows them and he has spoken directly with them.
Here's what else he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ILYA PONOMAREV, EXILED RUSSIAN LAWMAKER: What's happening in Moscow for sure it's not Ukrainians. And it's out of range. The reason why antimissile defense of Russia did not intercept those drones were because those drones were launched right next to Moscow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Do you agree with that assessment that the drones were launched by Russian partisans?
CLAPPER: Well, it's a certainly plausible thesis. But there's another one, I think also, at least as equally plausible. This could have been contrived by the Russian intelligence services intentionally for a variety of purposes as justification for doing something -- more serious against Ukraine to have garnered domestic support, or whatever.
So, yeah, it could be Russian dissidents, or it could be the Russians themselves as part of a disinformation effort. This is a hall of mirrors kind of thing.
BROWN: Yeah. But then, you know, you wonder wouldn't this be embarrassing for Putin? Because he prides himself on security and being protected. So, it's certainly still a mystery, but interesting to hear your perspective and your analysis on this.
Director Clapper, thanks so much.
CLAPPER: Thanks, Pamela.
BROWN: OUTFRONT next, calls for action in the case of a man who died while on a New York city subway after being put in a chokehold by another passenger. So far no charges have been filed. But will that change?
Plus, just hours from King Charles' coronation, thousands making their way to Buckingham Palace as the royal family's very public feud is front and center with Prince Harry arriving for the festivities.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:30:28]
BROWN: Well, tonight, the father of subway chokehold victim Jordan Neely is demanding answers as another day passes without an arrest in his son's death.
Andre Zachary told "The New York Daily News", quote, I just want something to be done.
Neely, a 30-year-old homeless man with a history of mental illness was killed on the subway after another rider put him in a chokehold. Witnesses say he had been acting erratically and yelling at passengers.
Jason Carroll is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): More calls for justice as Manhattan's District Attorney Alvin Bragg continues his investigation into the death of 30-year-old Jordan Neely, the man who died after being placed in a chokehold by another passenger on a New York City subway.
JUMAANE WILLIAMS, NEW YORK CITY PUBLIC ADVOCATE: There was a homeless man that was talking about his needs. He was choked to death.
JILLIAN SNIDER, CRIMINAL JUSTICE & CIVIL LIBERTIES POLICY DIR., R STREET INSTITUTE: I don't want to call it vigilantism. I want to say it was an attempt to subdue someone who, yes, was mentally ill.
CARROLL: The 24-year-old former marine who placed Neely in a chokehold was interviewed by police after the incident and released, according to a law enforcement source. He has hired criminal defense attorney Thomas Kenniff to represent him. Kenniff who lost the race to become New York's district attorney to Bragg, confirmed the former marine is his client, but had no further comment.
GOV. KATHY HOCHUL (D), NEW YORK: I do want to acknowledge how horrific it was to view a video of Jordan Neely being killed for being a passenger on our subway trains. His family deserves justice.
CARROLL: The passenger who recorded this disturbing video says Neely had been acting erratically before the incident and that he shouted "I don't care if I die, I don't care if I go to jail, I don't have any food." But he says he did not see Neely try to attack anyone on the train.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We arrived at the station, the door was open, all the people run away, and the guy stays in this position about eight or -- seven or eight minutes.
CARROLL: CNN has not been able to independently confirm what happened leading up to the incident, nor how long Neely was restrained. The law firm representing Neely's family released a statement, saying: We have people being killed for ringing the wrong doorbell, pulling in the wrong driveway, and screaming out in desperation on the subway. We cannot let that stand.
Neely had been a dancer and a Michael Jackson impersonator in Times Square and on New York subways. He had struggled with mental illness and had a history of prior arrests. Family and friends say Neely was deeply impacted by his mother's murder in 2007.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He never got over that. There was a lot of pain inside that was unresolved.
CARROLL: In a city still struggling with subway crimes and strapped mental health facilities, the circumstances surrounding Neely's death has generated debate among those still trying to understand what happened.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is definitely a blurry line of what is too excessive, what is not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think you can go around putting people in chokeholds.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm afraid there's no answers.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL (on camera): And, Pamela, right now, a demonstration underway. You can see there are a number of supporters who have gathered here calling for justice for Jordan Neely. We've seen a number of these types of protests pop up over the last the past 36 hours or so.
The mayor told all of those people who have taken an interest in terms of what has happened there on the subway on Monday to wait for the investigative process to play itself out -- Pamela.
BROWN: All right. Jason Carroll, thank you for that report from New York.
And OUTFRONT now, the Democratic mayor of Atlanta, Andre Dickens.
Mayor Dickens, thanks for your time tonight.
I know how much you have going on in your own city. There are a lot of issues at play here, right? Homelessness, mental health, crime, public safety. These are all problems that you have dealt with as mayor of a major American city. I'm wondering how do you view this situation?
MAYOR ANDRE DICKENS (D), ATLANTA: Yeah. You know, as I continue to watch it on the news, you know, my heart goes out to this family of Jordan, and just hope that we never get to the point where this is comfortable in any city in America.
I trust that Mayor Eric Adams, a very competent and capable leader along with his investigators and team will figure out what the right answers are for this situation. But just know that across this country, we see mental health challenges that are on the rise, homelessness continues to occur because the rising cost of housing, the interest rates are high, inflation is up, and people have more month than money.
[19:35:11]
And with substance abuse, mental health challenges, people are finding themselves sleeping on the trains, sleeping in the woods, sleeping on the streets all across America. And we should never get so comfortable with that. And also, just watching chokeholds, the city of Atlanta, our police department, we've banned the use of chokeholds.
So when I see a citizen using a chokehold, I'm also alarmed. And so, you know -- you know, this is all concerning and alarming across the country. But I trust that the leadership in New York City will bring justice to the situation.
BROWN: I want to turn to your city now, Atlanta police released audio from a 911 call as a mass shooting unfolded in a hospital on Wednesday, killing one person, injuring four others. I want to play some of it for you. Take a listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CALLER: We hear gunshots in the hall. One of the doctors says he thinks he sees -- he thinks he sees someone on the floor by the elevators on the 11th floor, but it's definitely loud.
911 DISPATCHER: Are they still shooting?
CALLER: We don't -- they're not shooting at this moment, but there were several shots that we heard.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BROWN: My colleague Jake Tapper talked with a Georgia lawmaker who was right next door to that shooting. He said he was, quote, overwhelmed that this is how people are expected to live now.
Do you accept this as the new normal?
DICKENS: Absolutely not. This can not be the new normal. And we must do all we can to continue to make sure that guns are not in the hands of individuals that pose a risk.
I actually know that State Senator Josh, he and I are friends. And I had so many calls and text messages from members of the community that were saying, you know, thanks for the shelter in place, what's next, what's happening? People were scared.
And, you know, at the end of the day, the suspect was brought to justice and caught between the good collaboration of Atlanta police department and Cobb County and Fulton County and along with the outstanding work by Grady Hospital to help get those people on the mend, the four women that were shot. And, unfortunately, we lost one life, a wonderful person, Amy St.
Pierre. And so this tragedy has come to our city this week. But as we've known, it was in Nashville, it was in Louisville. And there's almost 200 mass shootings in this country, and we're only in may this year.
BROWN: You say, you know, this can not be the new normal. But the reality is it's happening to cities all across America. No one is immune.
Are we just tolerating it as a way of life in America? I mean, is that what's happening now?
DICKENS: Unfortunately, our legislative actions are tolerating it. And so what we need to do is reverse that. We need to put real sensible common sense gun laws to work. We know which ones work in major cities and states.
And, so, we are now calling on the state. We're calling on the federal leadership and legislative bodies in leadership to make changes. We know the common sense gun laws that we should have.
Universal background checks should be just adopted and established as a norm. We should not allow convicted felons to have the ability to buy guns and violent misdemeanors. Anyone that's mentally unstable, we should disallow them to have access to guns as well.
So we need to make sure that we look at how mental health and gun access are tied together that are now leading to mass shootings across our country.
BROWN: Mayor Dickens, thank you for your time tonight.
DICKENS: Thank you very much.
BROWN: And OUTFRONT next, live pictures from Buckingham Palace where the coronation of King Charles III is set to begin in just hours. We're going to take you live to London. We have Richard Quest standing by.
Plus, a new warning tonight from the secretary of homeland security about America's southern border now that a Trump-era policy is about to expire.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:42:52]
BROWN: Tonight, you're looking at live pictures of Buckingham Palace ahead of King Charles' coronation in just a few hours.
In London tonight, people are sleeping in the streets. They are camped out for a front row seat. Thousands will be in attendance. But the guest who is perhaps getting the most attention is Prince Harry who is attending alone in the midst of very public family tensions.
Bianca Nobilo is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Hours away from being crowned king of England, a royal PR offensive by father and his son.
His other child, the prodigal son Prince Harry, the centerpiece of years of royal scandal, set to attend his father's coronation Saturday. But his wife Meghan staying behind in California.
Just months ago, even Harry's presence was uncertain, revealing the breakdown in family relationships in an interview with Oprah Winfrey.
PRINCE HARRY: The relationship is space at the moment.
NOBILO: But Harry will attend the ceremony here at Westminster Abbey.
But his appearance on Buckingham Palace's balcony with his family still far from certain. His ties to the family tormented by a violent rift with his brother, detailed in a Netflix docuseries.
PRINCE HARRY: It was terrifying to have my brother scream and shout at me and my father say things that just simply weren't true.
NOBILO: And what he felt was his family's inability to accept Meghan as his wife.
REPORTER: Can you just let me know, is the royal family a racist family, sir?
PRINCE WILLIAM: No, we're very much not a racist family.
NOBILO: January saw the release of Harry's memoir, a deeply intimate portrait of a young man trapped between the sharp flash of media attention and his struggle as the spare to his brother's heir to the throne.
The book an embarrassing moment for the royal family, the inner dynamics of a secretive institution and a private family laid bare for all to read.
This weekend, it's Harry's honesty about his stepmother Camilla, queen of England, that may sting the most.
[19:45:01]
He recalled begging his father not to marry Camilla, fueled by suspicions of their adultery and fears that she would be a wicked stepmother.
As a child, he wrote: We sensed the presence of the other woman because we suffered the downstream effects.
A year of continued upheaval for the royal family, seismic for the crown, personal for the prince as he wrote in his book: granny was gone, pa was king.
Bianca Nobilo, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And Richard Quest is OUTFRONT now live from London with more. So, Richard, Britain hasn't witnessed the coronation of a monarch since Queen Elizabeth 70 years ago.
For those here in the United States, tell us about why this is such a big deal, the anticipation, and what we can expect to see tomorrow.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN ANCHOR, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": What you can expect to see, let's start with the easy bit, if we may. What you can expect to see is a pageantry of pomp, of circumstance the like of which you won't see anywhere else, as the prime minister put it. Nobody does it quite like the Brits on this sort of occasion.
There will be thousands of soldiers and hundreds of horses, two gold coach, state coach, crowns up the wazoo. You have the imperial state crown, you have the Queen Mary crown. So there's going to be a huge amount of pageantry for us to enjoy.
But underneath it will be this very solemn moment where the king, King Charles, basically pledges his life of service to God, the allegiance, the sacred moment, and, at the same time, he is then installed as -- he's already the king, but it's sort of, if you like, made official signed, sealed and delivered.
BROWN: So, there's been this uproar over the bishop of Canterbury's office to pledge an oath of loyalty and allegiance to King Charles tomorrow.
King Charles' friend had this to say about that request.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JONATHAN DIMBLEBY, CLOSE FRIEND TO THE KING: I can think of nothing that he would find more abhorrent. He's never wanted to be revered. He's never wanted to have anyone pay homage except in mock terms as a joke.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So now there's an update we're learning. Tell us about it.
QUEST: Yes. Well, forgive me for look down at my phone because it has just come out. We've now got the embargo is lifted on the order of service. Now, instead of asking people outside in the country and ordinary people to say I swear I'll pay true allegiance to your majesty, blah, blah, blah, heirs, and so on, now the archbishop is going to say. I now invite those who wish to offer their support to do so with the moment of reflection and joining in by saying "God save King Charles".
So, if you've got the words in front of you, I guess you can say it. But it's quite a big change. It's a small change and a big effect because, essentially, it's been such an uproar that they've watered it down, to put it bluntly.
BROWN: Yeah, quite the scale back there in the language.
All right. Richard Quest, thanks so much.
QUEST: Thank you.
BROWN: Have fun tomorrow.
And Anderson Cooper is live in London with all the pomp and circumstance as the world waits for the first British coronation in 70 years. That's coming up next on "AC360."
OUTFRONT next, we are live in the southern border. A new warning tonight as tens of thousands of migrants eagerly await the end of a Trump-era policy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS, DHS SECRETARY: I think that there is no question that this is going to be extremely challenging.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Plus, a CNN investigation into claims made by thousands of men and women that a certain type of baby powder gave them cancer. More on that after this break.
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[19:52:17]
BROWN: New tonight, a warning from Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas, calling what the U.S. is about to encounter at the border, quote, extremely challenge, and it come as the pandemic era policy known as Title 42, which border officials used more than 3 million times to expel migrants from the U.S., is about to expire.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYORKAS: I think that there is no question that this is going to be extremely challenging. I do not want to understate the severity of the challenge that we expect to encounter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And as our next guest has seen firsthand, there is already a massive surge of migrants at the southern border.
So, OUTFRONT now is Lauren Villagran who is a border reporter for "The El Paso Times".
Lauren, just how much of a buildup are a seeing right now at the border? LAUREN VILLAGRAN, BORDER REPORTER, EL PASO TIMES: You know, migrants
are not waiting for May 11th and the end of Title 42. We are seeing hundreds if not thousands of migrants amassing at the southern border here in El Paso or crossing illegally through holes in flood gates in the border fence. What we're seeing here in El Paso is already a humanitarian crisis.
BROWN: And we're seeing right now, there are pictures up we're showing from your latest reporting showing the number of migrants rushing across the border highway. They're in El Paso, after crossing the border wall. Just how dangerous has this gotten for migrants as well as the drivers?
VILLAGRAN: You know, there seems to be a lot of frustration with the CBP 1 app and people are not waiting to be processed. They are trying to sneak across the border in some cases, and here in El Paso, we have a border highway. It's six lanes. It runs along the U.S./Mexico border fence.
And, you know, just yesterday, I was out with the El Paso times team, and 20 people ran across in front of the vehicle. We stopped and border patrol apprehended about 20 migrants.
You know, some people are trying to seek asylum, but they're not waiting to turn themselves in. As border patrol prepares to process migrants under the nation's title 8 immigration law, you know, you're going to see consequences for illegal crossing that you're not seeing right now. So things are about to change, and the tensions are building.
BROWN: Because what that does is crack down on recidivism, right? So for them to keep -- they'll be charges when they come back each time, correct?
VILLAGRAN: Yeah, I mean, that's the way Title 42 played out. It's been a revolving door where people can cross unlawfully and very quickly be sent back to Mexico and they try to cross again.
[19:55:07]
You know, next week when the border patrol starts processing people under Title 8, they could face civil penalty penalties, a five-year ban on returning or even criminal prosecution.
BROWN: Yeah, which is just stunning. Your reporting is so important, Lauren, to help us understand what is unfolding there in El Paso right there at the border. Thank you for coming on and sharing it with us. We appreciate it, Lauren Villagran.
VILLAGRAN: Thank you.
BROWN: OUTFRONT next, a CNN investigation into the claims a certain type of baby powder gave people cancer.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: Finally tonight, a stunning accusation. Thousands of men and
women claim a certain type of baby powder made by Johnson & Johnson gave them cancer. I investigated for CNN's new show, "THE WHOLE STORY" over these last few month, and here's a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was starting to feel like I wanted to have kids, so I saw a doctor, and she told me, yeah, we should do your follicle count. And the next day, I got the results that just said, yeah, your count is fine, but you have malignant masses.
I just never imagined that something that you would use on babies was unsafe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And I spoke to an attorney for Johnson & Johnson as part of my reporting. The company says it has investigated this with, quote, the very best testing and laboratories, adding it found, quote, there's no confirmed finding of asbestos. That asbestos is not in our product and that our product doesn't cause cancer.
So, be sure to watch my full special report, this investigation on "THE WHOLE STORY WITH ANDERSON COOPER". That's this Sunday night at 8:00 p.m. Eastern and 5:00 Pacific.
Thanks so much for joining us.
"AC360" starts now.
