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Erin Burnett Outfront
Hope Hicks Breaks Down; Stormy's Friend OutFront; "Blood Bath" Warning. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired May 03, 2024 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:33]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
Breaking news, Hope Hicks breaking down on the witness stand, barely looking at Trump as she testifies for three hours. What she says he did not want Melania to see.
And Stormy Daniels' former manager and longtime friend on how the woman at the center of Trump's criminal trial is now preparing to testify. He'll be OUTFRONT.
And tonight, warnings of a, quote, bloodbath, as Israel could be just days away from a military operation on Rafah. Fareed Zakaria joins us.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, a dramatic moment in court as Trump's former gatekeeper and confidant, Hope Hicks, broke down on the stand. Hicks was sitting just feet away from her former boss. This is the moment caught by the sketch artist, immediately got emotional when Trump's team began the cross-examination and asked her about her time at Trump Organization.
Now, that was that particular moment. The reality is from the moment Hope Hicks walked into that courtroom, the atmospheric change. This is an important witness. Our reporters who were there say it was almost electric in terms of the change in the room,
Hicks is as inner circle for Trump as it gets and she did prove to be a key witness of the witnesses so far, revealing never before known details that frankly were crucial to both sides for the prosecution. When asked if Michael Cohen would have paid Stormy Daniels without Trump's approval, she said, quote, I didn't know Michael to be in especially charitable person or selfless person. He's a kind of person who seeks credit. I'd say that would be out of character for Michael.
So that was crucial there, but then she also painted Cohen as someone who often went rogue, helping the defense. She told them under cross- examination, quote, he liked to call himself a fixer or Mr. Fix It and it was only because he first broke it. Well, no love lost there.
After nearly three hours, Hicks left the stand, Trump did turn and nod to her with a small smile, but she did not look at the man that she had worked side-by-side for, for so many years. Well, that's according to our reporters who were there.
And as Trump left court, he showed little emotion when asked about seeing Hope Hicks he obeyed the gag order.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: What was it like seeing Hope Hicks again?
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So I'm not allowed to comment on any of that. As you know, I'm under a gag order, which is very unprecedented.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Paula Reid is OUTFRONT live outside the New York courthouse.
And, Paula, obviously, this was a significant witness and a lot was said, although they did finish it, I guess with alacrity, it was done by the end of the day. So what are you now looking for when the trial resumes Monday morning?
PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, everybody is going to be looking to see who is going to take the stand, who's going to follow this blockbuster testimony from Hope Hicks? Prosecutors have remained tight-lipped about the order in which they're going to call their witnesses, even refusing to tell defense attorneys who they're going to call next.
Hanging out there is the fact that at some point, they have to call Michael Cohen. Will that be next week? We just don't know right now who is going to take that stand and follow the fireworks we saw today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REID (voice-over): Today, Hope Hicks, one of Trump's former closest advisers, took the stand in the New York hush money trial.
I'm really nervous, she revealed to the court as she began her testimony. She did have some warm words for her former boss, praising his ability to message. He deserves the credit for the different messages that the campaign focused on in terms of the agenda that he put forth.
But she never looked at him during most of her testimony, instead, focusing directly on the lawyers asking her questions. She testified at length about the impact of the "Access Hollywood" tape on the 2016 Trump campaign and how it was a crisis.
She was the first person and the campaign to learn of the tape which she was contacted by reporter. I was concerned, she said. She also witnessed Trump's reaction to the story. Asked if he was upset, she said, yes. Yeah, he was.
She also told the jury about conversation she had with former Trump fixer Michael Cohen and Trump when reports of Karen McDougal and Stormy Daniels first surfaced in early November 2016, saying Trump wanted to make sure that there was a denial of any kind of relationship. In a significant moment for prosecutors, Hicks revealed Trump communicated directly to her about out the payment to Daniels.
[19:05:01]
I only know about one instance, sometime in the middle of February, Mr. Trump told me about it.
And Trump was relieved that the story did not come out before the election. It was Mr. Trump's opinion that it was better to be dealing with it now and that it would have been bad to have had that story come out before the election.
Hicks appeared nervous throughout her appearance on the stand. And after that key exchange as defense attorneys were starting their cross-examination, Hicks broke down in tears.
Sorry about that. She said that she returned to the stand and when Trump's attorneys have the chance to question her, they got her to confirm that he was worried about his wife Melania's reaction to some of the stories.
President Trump really values Mrs. Trump's opinion and she doesn't weigh in all the time. But when she does, it's really meaningful to him.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
REID (on camera): And we learned, this afternoon that Trump has that $9,000 fine issued by a judge on Tuesday after the judge found that Trump has violated the gag order nine times.
Now, interestingly, Erin, he paid the fine in two separate cashier's checks, one for $2,000 and one for $7,000. We're still waiting for the judge's decision on those other four alleged violations of the gag order.
BURNETT: I understand about the checks, too. It seemed interesting. There's got to be a specific reason for it.
All right, Paula, thank you very much -- Paula outside that courthouse where she has been reporting indefatigably through the week.
All right. Everyone's with me.
Jeremy Herb, let me start with think as you were there in the courtroom today, this moment certainly the most dramatic moment in the room of the trial when who picks is there, already a witness that everybody is seeing what's she going to say? The room had already changed and then breaking down at that moment when cross-examination began, how did Trump react to that moment and to her testimony?
JEREMY HERB, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Yeah, that seemed to be the one point when Trump really did express concern about Hope Hicks and how she was doing as she walked out, he had a look of concern on his face watching her walk by. Up until that point, he had sort of not been paying too much attention. The two of them, they did not seem to make eye contact when she was on the stand.
And it was such an interesting moment because it felt like it was the end, right? She had just gotten done with the prosecution and gotten done with the hard questions and Trump's attorney, Emil Bove, he was not asking her difficult question. It was not a difficult question that led to this dramatic moment.
BURNETT: Right, it wasn't some nasty thing.
HERB: No, just talk about your time at the Trump Organization, but she kind of felt overwhelmed by the moment and perhaps let her guard down. And that is what led to her -- having -- breaking down a little. It's also notable when she left the witness stand at the end of the day, the president, he gave a look at her, he nodded to her and he gave her a small smile, which is something we really have not seen very often in this trail.
BURNETT: Right, right.
So, Terri, when you were there -- I know you've been there every day. You were watching the jury during Hope's testimony and also during this particular moment. So how did they react and, you know, where they all focused on her, were they looking at what was a reaction in that moment? And what do you think caused her emotion?
TERRI AUSTIN, HOST AND LEGAL ANALYST, LAW & CRIME NETWORK; FORMER TRIAL ATTORNEY: Well, the room was shocked. I've got to tell you, not just the jury, but also all of the press corps was shocked and I think the parties were shocked. She didn't actually start crying. She stopped and she turned to this side. And then she just kind of got choked up.
And then Bove asked, do you want to take a break? Let's take a break. And judge said, let's take a break.
So I think the jury and everyone else was wondering what's going on, and I believe the reaction was because just like Jeremy said, she had just finished testifying. She said something that was damaging towards Trump's. She said yes, he did say it's better that this happened before the election then after the election.
And I think when Bove got up there, she felt comfortable. She felt at home. This is my family and sometimes that's a very sensitive moment. That's when you break down.
BURNETT: It's fascinating. I mean, Daniel Horwitz is a former Manhattan assistant district attorney. You know, you can bend in these rooms, you know, not this particular one in this sense, but you know, you know what's happening here.
So, how does a dramatic moment like that affect a jury?
DANIEL HORWITZ, FORMER MANHATTAN ASSISTANT DISTRICT ATTORNEY: I mean, I think jurors are human beings and they're moved in ways that we all are. But I think at the end of the day, they're going to pay attention to whether this witness was credible or not.
And the fact that she broke down, I think as a message to the jury that this is a witness who we can trust. We understand that she worked for Donald Trump. We understand that she's here by subpoena, not willingly.
Also, I'm sure they understand and appreciate that this is a sophisticated person, right? This is somebody who has appeared in front of large crowds. She deals with the media.
This is somebody who has worked under incredible pressure get here she is breaking down on the stand. This is somebody who bears --
BURNETT: So, takes it seriously.
HORWITZ: Exactly, and is credible.
BURNETT: So, Ryan, part of this was the question that came up with her was whether Trump was doing this to protect his family, right, as opposed to for the campaign?
And, you know, when it gets, you get to the burden for the jury of whether you can have a little bit of one and a lot of the other and still convict.
[19:10:02]
That's the question.
Hicks made points on both sides of that. She did say he was concerned about the story. He was concerned about how it would be viewed by his wife, and he wanted me to make sure that the newspapers weren't delivered to his residents that morning.
But then she also detailed how -- detailed how involved the campaign wasn't a response and admitted she was very concerned in that capacity by the story. So, which side wins out here?
RYAN GOODMAN, FORMER SPECIAL COUNSEL AT DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE: I think the side that wins out as the prosecution because the prosecution all day have to prove is that one of the substantial motives is the hush money scheme to affect the outcome of the election.
BURNETT: Not the only.
GOODMAN: That's right, and that human beings are human beings in which they might have mixed motive and one is to protect ones wife and then the other one is to try to win the election. And that the damaging material coming out would affect both.
So the prosecutors actually win. That means that Hope Hicks has actually provided very direct evidence, including Donald Trump himself telling her this would have been better -- it's better than it came out now, but it did not come up before the election.
BURNETT: Yeah.
GOODMAN: That's really important for the prosecution.
BURNETT: So, he -- she also, when it came to Michael Cohen, Terri, also gave some really important points the prosecution, but also to the defense. She said he wasn't looped in on day-to-day campaign strategy and he would go rogue.
All right. So that's -- that helps the defense, but then she also said he was not at the, quote, I read at the top and especially so a charitable person or selfless person. So the idea he would pay $130,000 of his own money out of the kindness of his heart, doesn't really fit.
So again, which of those is more powerful? The fact that he would go rogue and wasn't involved, or the fact that he never would have done it if Trump didn't approve it.
AUSTIN: Well, here's what I think -- Trump basically micromanagers, and that's what she said. So the two issues that I would put against each other is one, Michael Cohen goes rogue. Two, Donald Trump micromanages.
And so by doing that, it means he knows what's going on. He knows where these checks are going. He knows what's in the ledgers and in fact, he knows about the invoices. So I think that her saying Michael Cohen goes rogue and saying things about his personality that he wouldn't pay -- okay, fine.
The real issue is whether or not Donald Trump was involved with a he knew this is an intent crime. We have to show that he actually intended to falsify these business records and that he knew about in fact, he's breaking the law here. So --
BURNETT: Did she help the prosecution get there on that point of beyond a reasonable doubt when it came to Trump knowing what Cohen was doing?
HORWITZ: I think they did and I think that you just hit an a very important point. She's an insider who's worked in the Trump Organization, not just the White House. She's worked with that family for a long time. She's credible. She knows how -- what the -- what the dynamic is between Donald Trump and Allen Weisselberg and Michael Cohen.
And so when she comes in front of the jury after years of working with the Trump family in saying this is how it works, I think there is credibility there about his knowing about what happens with how these payments are characterized in the books and records.
BURNETT: So, Jeremy, one thing and we've all -- who've been in the courtroom, its aid notice Trump has a few specific ways of his carrying his comportment, right? There's a lean back with the legs forward. There's the lean in. There's the straight of eye shut. And you've been able to watch when he uses each of those methods and
today, you observed him watching Hope Hicks, but when she's talking about "Access Hollywood" tape and Karen McDougal, he does the sit back with the eyes closed.
Okay. What do you observe there? What have you now put together about how he is using his body language?
HERB: I mean, I think he's trying -- it's better in his mind and probably really in his lawyers mine for him to not be reacting even if his eyes are closed and if the jurors observe him, sleeping, that's probably better than the jurors observing him getting angry about these things. You know, during the fall when he was in the civil fraud trial, where it was just a judge, there was no jury, Trump would react those so much more than what we've seen with this trial. He would shake his head. He would -- it was just night and day.
BURNETT: It was all out on asleep.
HERB: Yeah. And so today, one thing that was interesting with Hope Hicks testimony is he was not completely turning out as we saw, I think in some cases with David Pecker and some of the other testimony, he was watching. Sometimes there's screens up also in the court from that, you can he was looking up and look at the screens where you basically can watch himself, watched Hope from their rather than looking at her, but it felt today, he was certainly more in tune to what to what was going on than perhaps something --
BURNETT: Yeah, they do have that screen -- I got to say you got to need some kind of eyewear to be able to see it as five different cameras is very tiny up there, but, but absolutely.
So, Ryan, Michael Cohen going to be a crucial witness. How difficult is his testimony going to be? I mean, obviously what they're trying to do leading in is to put all the bad out there and to prove what they need to prove.
And then he's obviously crucial, but they're saying you don't have to rely on him for every one of these pieces. Hope corroborates this. Keith Davidson corroborates that.
How crucial is he going to be though?
GOODMAN: I think, so far, it still looks like he's crucial because the piece that we don't have is the insight into how exactly the records were structured.
[19:15:07]
And he has direct conversations with Donald Trump about that, apparently, according to Michael Cohen, according to his books --
BURNETT: And tapes of some that we've heard.
GOODMAN: Yeah. And so there are tapes of summer unfortunately, for him or for the prosecution. The tape is out of the Karen McDougal scheme. It's not of the Stormy Daniels scheme, in which Trump is deeply in the weeds about exactly how the payments are going to work. So it really might rely on Michael Cohen's testimony.
There's been a lot of layering by the prosecution that a lot of corroboration of other things that Cohen will say.
BURNETT: Yeah.
GOODMAN: But some pieces of it might just be Michael Cohen.
BURNETT: So when do they do Michael Cohen knowing everyone on the team?
HORWITZ: Yeah. What they're doing is they're going to make up Michael Cohen sandwich, if he would. And what they're going to do is they're going to -- as they have, there's going to be a crescendo of witnesses that are going to ultimately corroborate him.
Then they're going to call him and then they're going to end the case by against sandwiching him with witnesses that come after him.
BURNETT: So, he's the meat, the letters --
(CROSSTALK)
HORWITZ: That's exactly right.
BURNETT: And, Terri, what's your -- what's your expectation for what's next here?
AUSTIN: Well, it's not going to be Michael Cohen next, but I do think we might have to see a couple of more custodial witnesses just because the defense is not agreeing to stipulate to get some of these mundane documents into the evidence and they could very well do that. So, we might see some of that.
I mean, I think we could also see Gina Rodriguez. I mean, she's been brought up a couple of times. I thought --
BURNETT: The talent manager for Stormy, yeah.
AUSTIN: Yes, for Stormy Daniels, exactly. I think she might come up to corroborate some of the things they've been trying to say, and Stormy will come up at some point whether she comes before or after is unknown, but I think were going to go the six to eight weeks.
BURNETT: All right. Well, thank you all very much. It's been a very busy week and next week, even more.
All right. And next, someone who knows Trump very well -- what she noticed between the two in court today, Trump and Hope Hicks. Stephanie Grisham is next.
Plus, CNN learning Israel is now briefing the Biden administration ahead of its plans to enter southern Gaza, which could be hours away, days away. The WHO warning tonight, it could be a bloodbath. Fareed Zakaria is OUTFRONT.
And a revealing looked tonight inside the struggle that more than half of American households are facing as we speak.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The struggle is real. Everybody's trying to make ends meet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:21:49]
BURNETT: Tonight, we were all just following his lead. Hope Hicks saying under oath that when it came to messaging for his 2016 campaign, Donald Trump was in the driver's seat, telling the jury that quote, he knew what he wanted to say and how he wanted to say it. And of course, Hope Hicks knows. She was closer to him than almost anyone during the campaign and his presidency.
I remember doing an interview with him. We all went to Trump Tower where he filmed "The Apprentice", it was him. And it was Hope Hicks that was -- that was how crucial that relationship was and how important she was.
OUTFRONT now, Stephanie Grisham, who was the White House press secretary for former President Trump, also the former chief of staff for then First Lady Melania Trump.
And, Stephanie, you were among the very first few are on that campaign and in that role, you not only worked so closely and observed Donald Trump, but you work closely with Hope Hicks. She made clear today that she was very nervous and obviously broke down at one point. Why do you think that happened?
STEPHANIE GRISHAM: You know, I felt nervous for her today. I felt anxiety for her and I have not spoken to Hope since I left the White House on January 6th.
I think that when you work with somebody for so long, you know, I worked with the Trump's for six years. She worked with them for much longer and obviously, you're going to become close to them and you're going to see a sight of them that the public doesn't see. And so I imagined she felt like any human being would that she was betraying him and that shows she felt nervous.
We have to remember she was there under subpoena. She wasn't there willingly, let's say. So, I can't imagine how she felt because I who have spoken out against him publicly for years now, I still felt anxiety for her.
BURNETT: So, Stephanie, you know, obviously, you know, her and many have spoken about her memory and how great it is. Some it's even been described as photographic. Today, she did say she did not recall some very key moments, right, not sort of, you know, was it January or February. But she said she didn't recall whether she was president that key Trump Tower meeting with David Pecker, head of the FBI, you know, Donald Trump. I mean, do you believe that?
GRISHAM: I'll just say this: anybody who's been prepped very well by an attorney has been told over and over again that there's never anything wrong with saying that you don't recall or you don't remember? She does have a great memory. She's a very, very intelligent woman.
And so when I heard that, you know, it didn't surprise me. I think a few weeks ago, I even maybe had said that I so I thought that she would probably do a lot of "I don't recalls".
BURNETT: Yeah, yeah.
GRISHAM: One take do want say was that I do think that she really did in part to the jury that people don't maybe know yet, but you don't go rouge with Donald Trump. And so I know that that's a thing that the defense is going to try to say is that Michael Cohen went rogue. You do not go rogue with him, and it reminded me listening to her or listening to the news, tell me about her that when I was traveling with the press on the campaign, I would literally have to ask her if I could tell the press that we're going to be somewhere the next day, something so easy like were going to be an Iowa the next day and she would have to ask Donald Trump if it was okay for me to tell them where they were going to be the next day.
So, you don't go rogue with him. He is aware of everything that's being said, whether it's on the record, off the record, what have you.
[19:25:02]
BURNETT: And that's really important because it does -- it does put the context on, you know, the concept of fixing, right, that -- so when -- when Hicks, obviously, is inner circle as it gets. You know, I was telling that anecdote from Trump Tower that I recall, Stephanie, as she clearly remains loyal to him as you point out, having known him for so long.
Today, though, she did avoid eye contact for most of her testimony, Trump off and had a scowl on his face as he was watching her speak passing notes with his attorneys as he's done throughout this trial, closing his eyes, when she testified about the "Access Hollywood" tape, what do you think is going on here when you hear those descriptions of how he reacted today?
GRISHAM: All I could think was that, you know, again, she was in such the inner circle, especially there in the very beginning, and she was privy to so many conversations and so many people. And all I could think was that he was wondering, you know, what else she could say.
I think it was very clear that she didn't want to say too much. He only answered the questions that were asked of her and she didn't really expand on them. But to me, I think he was a little bit nervous. You know, in an anecdotal used for myself, you know, everybody knows I
was pretty close to millennia. There are many, many stories I've never shared about Melania for various reasons. And I think that Hope probably feels the same way. And I imagine that he was a little worried about what else was going to come out of her mouth.
BURNETT: So, you know, it's interesting the other day when Keith Davidson was testifying about Karen McDougal and the affair details, I was watching him in the room for a lot of that testimony and at that moment, when talking about the affair he's looking up at the ceiling. He has a sort of either -- you know, first, look up at the ceiling, eyes closed, or leaning back, eyes closed during those moments.
"Access Hollywood" tape comes up., same sort of reaction, and I know we've been trying to understand why.
I know you see something happening here as someone who knows him well. What is it?
GRISHAM: I mean, it's humiliating. I don't care who you are. I don't care if you're the most confident narcissist in the world who's had a lot of good fortune and who has been president of the United States, it's got to be humiliating. And in fact, hearing the anecdote today that Hope Hicks said that he wanted the newspapers to not be sent to Trump Tower, so his wife wouldn't see them -- well, Melania didn't read hard-copy papers ever, ever. I think he didn't want to see those things. I don't think that's ever going to be easy for anyone. So I think he's humiliated.
BURNETT: That is really interesting as you pointed out, she would read on her iPad.
GRISHAM: Oh, yeah.
BURNETT: He's not a technological person. You're right. He would be the one to pick up "The New York Post" and look at it in paper.
GRISHAM: I'd never saw her pick up a paper ever. Not once, no.
BURNETT: That's fascinating. So that comment from Hope Hicks, should, he didn't want to deliver to the residents as if it was to protect millennia, it could be seen as very different.
All right. Thank you very much, Stephanie. Glad to see you.
GRISHAM: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, Stormy Daniels, longtime friend of 15 years, is my guest. He has been speaking to are regularly and he has new details on what is weighing on his friend right now.
Plus, Israel now briefing the Biden administration ahead of its plan to enter Rafah, where more than 1 million people are trapped. The World Health Organization tonight warning of a bloodbath and Fareed Zakaria is next.
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[19:32:37]
BURNETT: New tonight, a warning of a bloodbath in Gaza. CNN learning that Israel is now briefing the Biden administration ahead of its military operation in Rafah in southern Gaza, which could be days away. The United Nations in a briefing today says the intensity and scale of the destruction in Gaza is like nothing the world has seen since World War II.
When you've had seen what's going on in the ground in places like Ukraine, that is an absolutely stunning thing to say.
OUTFRONT now, Fareed Zakaria, host of CNN's Fareed Zakaria GPS and author of the new book, "Age of Revolutions". Get it online, or like it is in my bookstore, I'm sure it is on the front shelf of every bookstore. You walk into right now.
So, Fareed, the -- let's just start with this bloodbath warning from the who about what they say will happen if Israel goes into Rafah. Are they right? Are those words fair bloodbath?
FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS": It sounds pretty fair. Remember, this is one-and-a-half million people who had been herded into Rafah because they were forced in there when the Israeli government displaced most of them from northern Gaza and northern Gaza was then essentially destroyed. There's another U.N. report, I think it's -- I think it's the U.N. that says it will take 80 years to rebuild the homes and schools and hospitals that have been destroyed in northern Gaza.
So all these people are not now clustered. Gaza was already densely populated. They're now in this tiny area called about Rafah. If Israel goes in and again, the truth is Hamas does use human beings as shields. It does use civilian facilities as shields, but the reality of that means devastation for ordinary people.
BURNETT: So the Biden administration, you know, they're demanding answers from Israel on what they're going to do to protect civilians. There's a lot of talk about demanding and yet Israel continues to -- continue to do what it seems to want to do.
I mean, is the Biden administration pushing hard enough. Does Israel care what they have to say? Do they think there's real teeth behind it? What's happening there?
ZAKARIA: The Biden administration has tried a strategy from the start which was hugging Israel close, support it publicly and privately express your disagreements. They were opposed to the major massive ground invasion. There were opposed to not setting up many humanitarian corridors.
There were -- they'd been opposed to the way in which Bibi Netanyahu has waged this war from the start.
[19:35:02] They've gotten nowhere. So I think the answer to your question is, no, it's -- whatever they're doing, it isn't working. And so, the question -- and it's a hard one is do they condition some of the aid that is coming to Israel and say, you can't use this in Rafah.
I think we are getting to a point where there may be a major break between Washington and Israel. And we haven't seen this in a long time. If that happens, Biden faces this very difficult choice. Does he withhold, delay, condition some of the aid because the Israeli government is simply not listening to their advice?
BURNETT: That's going to be an incredible moment if that happens. But as you point out, they have not been listening. And it comes in the context of more pro-Palestinian protests, as we've seen through the week, Fareed, right, on campuses across the country. These pictures you're looking at here on the screen are from New York University. More than 2,100 were arrested, all in as the demonstration as of now spread at last count free to more than 40 campuses across the entire United States.
I know though that in the complexity of this, where these situations are very complex, some words are thrown around very lightly that shouldn't be, you see a double standard and how colleges are treating speech on campus. What do you mean by that?
ZAKARIA: So I think that all of this in some way has been exacerbated by the fact that over the last ten years, colleges have not seemed neutral in terms of, you free speech versus hate speech versus intimidation. In other words, they've jumped in almost sided with some protesters particularly after the George Floyd protests. And in other cases, they've said, well, its free speech, we can -- we can get involved in this.
So give you a simple example. Would colleges take -- have been as reluctant to disperse some of these protests if they had been white supremacists? If they had even been big rallies and favor of Trump and MAGA and things like that? You wonder right? Part of the reason you wonder is that colleges have not been near neutral in the way they have -- they've kind of applied these principles.
So what happened particularly for Jewish groups is when they started to hear what was often, unfortunately, antisemitic rhetoric, and college president said, oh, this is all protected free speech. A lot of Jewish groups said, wait a minute, you didn't say that when it was anti-Black rhetoric. You didn't say that -- so there's -- there's a sense in which why is it free speech sometimes and not free speech other times?
And that -- that adds to this is a difficult challenge. But I think one thing we should always remember, civil disobedience is okay. It is one of the great traditions of American protest.
The key to it, as Martin Luther King said in 1965, is you have to be willing to take the punishment. If, you know, if you are breaking the law because you want to call attention to something, you got to accept the consequences of breaking the law. BURNETT: Right, and that means it being arrested and maybe being expelled, right? That's the price. And if you do it, you have to be willing to pay it.
But the price of this for Biden -- what's at stake, right, is the deep passion that is clearly felt by many young people across this country. We knew that before these protests, but these protests certainly cemented it for people and Bernie Sanders told Christiane Amanpour that Biden is out of step with much of the Democratic pace on this issue in terms of how he sees it and his support is his support for Israel.
So let me just play what Senator Sanders said.
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SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): This maybe Biden's Vietnam. I worry very much that President Biden is putting himself in a position where he has alienated not just young people, but a lot of the Democratic base in terms of his views on Israel and this war.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: It says he worries it may be Biden's Vietnam. Do you agree?
ZAKARIA: I think -- I think that is an exaggeration. Remember, Vietnam was a war the United States was waging. We had 500,000 troops, college students were being recruited to go there.
This is very different. This is a war -- certainly true that the United States is supporting Israel. But it is true, the fundamental point Bernie Sanders made true. Biden doesn't seem to get how strongly the base fields about this and what could happen and the replay that is possible is the Democratic Convention this year is being held in the same city it was in 1968 and that year, the protests around Vietnam send a signal to the world that the Democratic party was in disarray, was divided, and that signal could easily be sent to the world again from Chicago. And it could -- it could imperil Biden's chances for reelection.
BURNETT: All right. Fareed, thank you very much.
[19:40:02]
And I hope that everyone will watch "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS", Sundays at 10:00 a.m. and 1:00 p.m. Eastern.
And next, what is weighing on Stormy Daniels tonight as she prepares to testify in Trump's trial. Some point, we expect to see her there. Her friends who's been talking to her is OUTFRONT next.
And a special report on the striking number of households struggling to pay for the most basic need and is taking a series toll.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You want to help when you can't lower the price, it's heartbreaking.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Tonight, the woman at the center of the Trump trial, Stormy Daniels, watching the testimony and coverage as she prepares to testify. And tonight, we are learning that something is weighing on her very heavily. And one of her best friends for the past 15 years is OUTFRONT tonight, sharing these exclusive photos and they speak all the time.
[19:45:05]
OUTFRONT now is Dwayne Crawford, Stormy Daniels' longtime friend and former manager.
And so, Dwayne, you've known her for many years in different ways. I know you speak to or almost daily now. And you've said to us that there's something weighing very heavily on her as she prepares to possibly testify. What is it?
DWAYNE CRAWFORD, STORMY DANIELS' LONGTIME FRIEND: Well, I think its the same thing that's weighing on everybody that's been following this case and that's just the fact that -- I mean, is he going to get away with it?
BURNETT: And that -- that puts so much of a burden on her, right, if she does testify or she is -- she is at the center of this.
CRAWFORD: Well, of course, I mean, it would mean that this was all for nothing. And if I know her, that's definitely going to drive her nuts. I mean, she's -- she's been through well, hell to get this far and honestly, it would just be awful to not get some sort of justice out of this.
BURNETT: You know, as I -- as I said, I know, you guys met more than 15 years ago. You're best friends. In the earliest days of your friendship, we've got pictures of you that you shared with us than I say this in the context of, you met her not long after her encounter with Donald Trump.
So what do people watching this trial, who are watching tonight, who are watching it and trying to understand what's happening every day, need to know about her?
CRAWFORD: I think people need to understand that she doesn't get anything out of this. There's no reason for her to go through this other than to get the truth out there. And that's really the important thing.
So for anybody that's thinking she's got ulterior motives, or she's making money off of this, it's quite the opposite. And just watched this eat at her and eat at her and to be honest with you, I -- I just think the truth needs to be out there. BURNETT: You know, what she has gone through, she has faced a barrage
of horrifying threats and I know there's been times they've been horrible, but as this trial has started, I know its intensified, Dwayne, and she shared some of them with us and I know, you know, about so many more just to give everyone a sense of them. I'm only going to be part of this one. It's vile.
I'm going to physical abuse your entire family for what you've done to this country. This is a death threat and I swear to god I will murder you, and I\m leaving out horrific, horrific things. It goes on to threatened, unspeakable acts to her family.
What has she told you about these threats?
CRAWFORD: Well, you know, honestly, it's just kind of sharing them and, and the overwhelming weight that comes with having to constantly be in fear of something like that. I mean, we dealt with this in 2018, 2019 when everything was really getting out there and its just it's like reliving it. It's coming back and honestly, I think this is probably a little worse because there's more at stake here.
BURNETT: In this video we're watching, you're in this video. And there's a moment in the documentary "Stormy", where you are together with Stormy in Columbus, Ohio, two undercover cops are Trump supporters and they tried to lure Stormy into committing a crime. I want to play the clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRAWFORD: The two female officers, they were in the merchandise line, they bought shirts, they took pictures with her, hugged her, thanked her, and then immediately they were ready to arrest her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And that you recounting that story, Dwayne.
The charges were dropped against Daniels within 24 hours, but not before police took her mug shot and after they wanted pictures, they thanked or they did all this than they arrest her.
How have these experiences changed your friend?
CRAWFORD: I mean, it just wears on you emotionally and I mean, she's a pretty optimistic person and honestly is one of the strongest people that I've ever, ever known.
I mean, she's just seeing everything that she's adored. But I mean, even her -- she's -- it definitely beats down on you.
BURNETT: Well, Dwayne, thank you very much. Appreciate your time tonight.
CRAWFORD: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, the struggle is real. That's the exact words of the father of five who was working two jobs and still does not earn enough to put food on the table for his children. And he is far from alone. A special report, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:54:38]
BURNETT: Tonight, the struggle is real. Those are the words of this father of five, who cant put enough food on the table for his family, even though we worked two full-time jobs he is far from alone. More than half of the households in the United States who are stretched to feed their families work full-time.
Alyson Camerota is OUTFRONT for our series, "The Real Economy".
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[19:55:04]
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a family of four.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Family of four?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then you get one large or two from --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That sounds great.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There you go.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you so much.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is Carla's weekly trip, grocery shopping for her family.
So is there any limit on what you can get?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah. Right here, you get it says right here. Oh, thanks. So get one of each.
CAMEROTA: Carla has been coming to this food bank in Enfield, Connecticut, where everything is free since 2021.
That's the year she had a heart attack, lost her job and could no longer afford the basics.
What was happening before you started coming here?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was borrowing, getting money from family members. So I found out about this place and I'm like, oh, let's try it and it was great. It's saved me.
CAMEROTA: Every customer has a different story, many once considered themselves middle-class or even well-off.
Though inflation is generally subsiding, groceries now cost 33 percent more than they did at the start of the COVID-19 pandemic.
Today, more than one in ten American adults live in a household where there was not enough to eat in the past week, according to the Census Bureau.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What would you like in the fruit section?
KHAMPHAY KHEN, RELIES ON FOOD PANTRY FOR GROCERIES: I grew up very poor. I didn't want my kids to grow up like that, so I wanted to make sure that I worked two jobs and I would work seven days.
CAMEROTA: You worked seven days make ends meet for your five children.
KHEN: Yeah.
CAMEROTA: Khamphay worked 80 hours a week, then he was diagnosed with muscular dystrophy. As his health declined, so did his work hours and his income.
KHEN: I still do work. I kind of still work two jobs now.
CAMEROTA: Have you been surprised by any of the fellow customers?
KHEN: I've seen some people here that have been financially well-off, like myself, but, you know, the struggles is real, everybody is trying to make ends meet.
JASON JAKUBOWSKI, CEO, CONNECTICUT FOODSHARE: The people that were seeing in our lines. The super majority of them that are not senior citizens are working. They have jobs, they sometimes have two jobs.
CAMEROTA: Jason Jakubowski runs Connecticut Foodshare, a massive food bank that distributes free food just 600 food pantries across the state.
JAKUBOWSKI: One of the tough things that we have here in Connecticut is that we are the richest state in the country. But there's also a tremendous amount of poverty.
CAMEROTA: Jakubowski says need for food here has never been greater, 10 percent of households in the state are on SNAP, the government program formerly known as food stamps.
JAKUBOWSKI: I've been here seven years and this is definitely the most difficult time in that seven years.
CAMEROTA: So, explain that, why is this most difficult time?
JAKUBOWSKI: Yeah. I think during the pandemic, there was obviously a tremendous amount of need. You had pandemic era, free food coming from the federal government, unemployment benefits, moratorium on student loan payments, moratorium on housing payments. All of those things have gone away.
CAMEROTA: Those pandemic benefits, which Congress let expire, had pushed poverty to its lowest level on record.
Since unemployment has gone down and things have improved, why is the need the same?
JAKUBOWSKI: What really is happening is that the cost of living in general has gone up, specifically the cost of groceries have gone up.
CAMEROTA: No one knows this better than Molly Devanney. Her family has been in the grocery store business for 90 years.
MOLLY DEVANNEY, VICE PRESIDENT, HIGHLAND PARK MARKET: It's more challenging to do business today than ever before.
CAMEROTA: Is that right?
DEVANNEY: It is, it is.
CAMEROTA: Why?
DEVANNEY: The struggle of pricing, the cost of products, the cost of labor, everything is going through the roof.
CAMEROTA: Is this a more emotional time because of this?
DEVANNEY: Yeah, I think so because people are struggling, you see them struggling and you want to help. And when you can't lower the price, it's heartbreaking.
JAKUBOWSKI: We absolutely have the ability here in the United States to solve hunger. I'll tell you two things that Congress can do tomorrow. They can increase the eligibility for SNAP and they can pass a child tax credit. It worked during the pandemic to help keep people out of poverty. And it would work again.
CAMEROTA: For now, Carla and Khampay plan to keep relying on the generosity of this food bank.
KHEN: I think in the end, it's not about pride. It's about what you need.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CAMEROTA (on camera): So, Erin, one of the things that we learned is that what people do when the price of necessities goes up. So their rent, their gas, their medicine, one of the first things that they lose or cut back on is food because they think they can skip a meal, or they think they can skip a week of grocery shopping. But obviously when you have of kids, that equation is totally different and you can't do that.
BURNETT: Well, it was amazing that people would make that sacrifice, would think that way.
And you have a memoir, Alisyn, "Combat Love", and you talk about some of the challenges that you faced in your teenage years, and obviously not like some of what your reporting on here. But a part of your life that makes it, it seems possible for you to relate to some of the struggles people are going through.
CAMEROTA: I certainly relate to the instability. So as I write in the pages of the book, you know, some of my teenage years and my 20s, were rife with instability. I was broke much of the time. I didn't know where I would the living sometimes a month from then.
And so, I understand having to rely on the kindness of friends and acquaintances and sometimes strangers. And I really relate to that beautiful community where its the generosity of strangers at these food pantries that allow for people to make you get through their periods of instability and how important that community is.
BURNETT: Right. The people are buying and providing that food for others in their community.
Alisyn, thank you so much.
CAMEROTA: Thanks so much, Erin.
BURNETT: And thanks so much to all of you for joining us.
"AC360" starts now.
