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Erin Burnett Outfront
One-On-One With The President Of The United States; Trump Team To Question Storm Daniels Longer Than First Expected; RFK Jr.: Worm "Got Into My Brain And Ate A Portion Of It": NYT. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired May 08, 2024 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:32]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next.
My exclusive interview with the president of the United States on his big bet on A.I., his warning to Israel about American aid, and what he promises Trump will do if Trump loses.
Plus, Stormy Daniels headed back to the stand. Trump's lawyers promising they have, quote, a while to go before they're done questioning her.
And Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. with a shocking announcement, he says a worm ate part of his brain, causing memory loss. I'm going to talk to a man who runs one of the world's largest parasite collections about this bizarre but compelling story.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
(MUSIC)
BURNETT: And good evening and welcome to a special edition of OUTFRONT. I'm Erin Burnett tonight live from Milwaukee with an exclusive interview with the president of the United States.
In an extensive one-on-one, we talked about the war in Gaza. And, for the first time, in his most uncertain terms, the president of the United States lays out conditions on American aid to Israel, connecting it directly to what is happening in Rafah right now.
We also talked about his rematch with Trump, Biden telling me -- quote -- "I promise you he won't" when he talks about Trump accepting the outcome of the upcoming election.
And we talked about the number one issue for voters, and that is the economy. It's why we're here in Milwaukee, the must-win state of Wisconsin, and President Biden today announcing Microsoft's $3.3 billion plan to build a new A.I. data center here. It's 100,000 potential new jobs, jobs the Biden administration wants to tout on the exact same land where Trump made one of his biggest job announcements of his presidency.
Those jobs did not pan out. And now Biden tonight is saying he can do what Trump failed to do. Here's our exclusive interview with the president of the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: Mr. President, thank you so much for being with me.
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, thanks for having me.
BURNETT: So, Trump attended a groundbreaking here, where we are, for Foxconn. He promised 13,000 jobs, and only about 1,000 of those actually exist right now.
So I know you're promising more than 2,000 union construction jobs and that 100,000 people are going to get trained in A.I. here. Why should people here believe that you will succeed at creating jobs where Trump failed?
BIDEN: He's never succeeded in creating jobs and I have never failed. I have created over 15 million jobs since I have been president, 15 million in three-and-three-quarters years.
And, secondly, Microsoft is a serious player. And they're very much engaged in making sure that they pick this area as sort of the home base for their A.I. initiative in the nation. And they're going to do it, and just like -- and, by the way -- well, I shouldn't go into it.
But Trump has -- he started off with the golden shovels, you know...
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: For the groundbreaking here.
BIDEN: For the groundbreaking.
BURNETT: Yes.
BIDEN: And talked about this being the eighth wonder of the world.
When has he ever done anything he said? I'm not being facetious. Think about it. He started off, he lost -- other than Herbert Hoover, he's the only other president who lost more jobs than created in his four- year term. He's -- and the way he managed the end of the -- his last year, when we were dealing with COVID.
A million people died. He would tell people, inject bleach, and that may do it, it wasn't a real problem, when he did an interview with one of your colleagues where he just flat-out acknowledged he knew how dangerous it was, but he didn't want to speak to it.
It's a -- I just -- and look at what he says he's going to do if he gets elected. He says he's going to do away with what I have done on Medicare, reducing the price of Medicare drastically. He said he's going to do away with the Affordable Care Act. He said he's going to do it -- and just down the line. So we have a very different view. I look at it from a position -- not being facetious -- from a Scranton perspective. He looks at it from a Mar-a-Lago perspective. He wants to give more significant tax cuts to the super wealthy. You know, we have got 1,000 billionaires in America. You know what their average federal tax is? Eight-point-three percent.
He talks about, if I -- I want to raise it to 25 percent. That would raise, that would raise $40 billion, $400 billion over 10 years. We can further reduce the deficit, which I have been able to reduce.
I mean, it's just a completely different perspective on how we should proceed.
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BURNETT: When it comes, though, to the 100,000 jobs specifically that we're talking about here, people training in A.I., the actual jobs, when are they actually going to have jobs, those 100,000 people that are being trained?
BIDEN: Beginning probably in the first tranche in three to four years.
The community colleges are going to, the one we're at, we're going to provide for 2,000 folks, and to be able to be trained, 200 a year. And it's going to go -- the whole pipeline goes all the way throughout to high schools and training facilities.
It used to be that, when I was in high school, even at the tail end, or the tail end, before you went to high school, we -- most public high schools had shop and home...
BURNETT: Mm-hmm.
BIDEN: That you learned to work with your hands. It doesn't exist anymore.
And so it allows people who have skills and be able to train technical skills to be able to make a decent living without a college degree. And it's what we need.
BURNETT: So, when we talk about the bet on A.I. and sort of what it means, I don't know if you saw, this weekend, Warren Buffett had his annual meeting, and he talked about A.I.
So the first thing he said was, OK, it's got enormous potential for good. But then he likened it to the development of nuclear weapons in the U.S. and he said it scares the hell out of him. You know he always says it like he sees it.
And then he says -- quote -- he "doesn't understand a damn thing about it."
(LAUGHTER)
BURNETT: And that may capture how many Americans feel. Does A.I. scare you?
BIDEN: A.I. has enormous potential and enormous downside potential.
That's why, three years ago, I got together the major architects of A.I. who did different operations around the world. I met with them in Europe and here in the United States. And it ranges all the way from one of the leaders saying it's a real -- it's going to take over human thinking, all the way to folks who say, no, it's not a problem.
And so that's why I set out certain standards that it has -- it can't -- can do no harm. And we have to make sure we know how to do that. We have to make sure it's controlled. And that's how -- that's going to -- and how we -- how it -- it's the most significant, I think, technological development in human history.
BURNETT: The most significant in human history?
BIDEN: Yes, not in terms of war and peace, but in terms of being able to -- one leader in the A.I. community said to me, it's going to overtake human thinking, and -- which is frightening.
BURNETT: Terrifying.
BIDEN: But the other -- most think it can be used for everything from find cures for cancer to significantly increase productivity.
BURNETT: So, when you talk about the economy, of course, it is by far the most important issue for voters. It's also true right now, Mr. President, that voters by a wide margin trust Trump more on the economy. They say that in polls.
And part of the reason for that may be the numbers. And you're aware of many of these, of course. The cost of buying a home in the United States is double what it was, when you look at your monthly costs, from before the pandemic. Real income, when you account for inflation, is actually down since you took office, economic growth last week far short of expectations.
Consumer confidence, maybe no surprise, is near a two-year low. With less than six months to go to Election Day, are you worried that you're running out of time to turn that around?
BIDEN: We have already turned it around.
Look, look at the Michigan survey, where 65 percent of the American people think they're in good shape economically. They think the nation's not in good shape, but they're personally in good shape.
The polling data has been wrong all along. How many -- you guys do a poll at CNN. How many folks you have to call to get one response? The idea that we're in a situation where things are so bad, the folks that -- I mean, we have created more jobs. We have made -- we're in a situation where people have access to good-paying jobs.
And the last I saw, the combination of the inflation, the cost of inflation and all those things, that's really worrisome to people, with good reason. That's why I'm working very hard to bring the cost of rentals down, to increase the number of homes that are available.
But let me say it this way. When I started this administration, people were saying there's going to be a collapse of the economy. We have the strongest economy in the world. Let me say it again, in the world.
BURNETT: Although GDP last week was far short of expectations.
BIDEN: Oh, it wasn't -- look, GDP's still growing. Looking at the response of the markets, overwhelmingly positive, overwhelmingly positive.
And one of the reasons why people feel good about it, not being as strong as it was before, is, they believe that the Fed's going to respond.
BURNETT: They hope they're going to get a rate cut.
BIDEN: Yes.
Well, so -- but, I mean, no president's had the run we have had, in terms of creating jobs and bringing down inflation.
[19:10:06]
It was 9 percent when I came to office, 9 percent.
But, look, people have a right to be concerned, ordinary people. The idea that you bounce a check and you get a $30 fee for bouncing the check, well, I changed that. You can't charge more than eight bucks for that. Or your credit card, your late payment, $35.
I mean, there's corporate greed going on out there.
BURNETT: Mm-hmm.
BIDEN: And it's got to be dealt with.
BURNETT: What about -- I mean, but there's real pain. I mean, grocery prices are up 30 percent, more than 30 percent since the beginning of the pandemic, and people are spending more on food and groceries than they have at any time really in the past 30 years.
I mean, that's a real day-to-day pain that people feel.
BIDEN: No, no, it really is. And it's real.
But the fact is that, if you take a look at what people have, they have the money to spend. It angers them and angers me that you have to spend more.
For example, the whole idea of this notion that Senator Casey talked about, shrinkflation. You -- I think you always, on your program...
BURNETT: Same price for a smaller bottle of juice or something.
BIDEN: Yes, right, for example, Snickers bar, they did a thing, and it's like 20 percent less for the same price. That's corporate greed. That's corporate greed.
And we have got to deal with it. And that's what I'm working on.
BURNETT: I want to ask you about something happening as we sit here and speak. And that, of course, is, Israel is striking Rafah.
I know that you have paused, Mr. President, shipments of 2,000-pound U.S. bombs to Israel due to concern that they could be used in any offensive on Rafah. Have those bombs, those powerful 2,000-pound bombs, been used to kill civilians in Gaza?
BIDEN: Civilians have been killed in Gaza as a consequence of those bombs and other ways in which they go after population centers.
And I made it clear that, if they go into Rafah -- they haven't gone into Rafah yet. If they go into Rafah, I'm not supplying the weapons that have been used historically to deal with Rafah, to deal with the cities, to deal with that problem.
We're going to continue to make sure Israel is secure, in terms of Iron Dome and their ability to respond to attacks like came out of the Middle East recently.
But it's -- it's just wrong. We're not going to supply the weapons and the artillery shells used -- that have been used...
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: Artillery shells as well?
BIDEN: Yes, artillery shells.
BURNETT: So, just to understand, what they're doing right now in Rafah, is that not going into Rafah, as you define it?
BIDEN: No, they haven't gone into the population centers. What they did is right on the border.
And it's causing problems with -- right now, in terms of with Egypt, which I have worked very hard to make sure we have a relationship and help. But I have made it clear to Bibi and the war cabinet they're not going to get our support if, in fact, they're going into these population centers.
We're not walking away from Israel's security. We're walking away from Israel's ability to wage war in those areas.
BURNETT: So it's not over your red line yet?
BIDEN: Not yet. But it's -- we have held up the weapons. We have held up the one shipment that is an old shipment that has been designed for -- but we held that up.
BURNETT: And I want to ask you one more thing, if I may.
The images that people see out of Gaza are horrific. The U.N. is talking about some of these mass graves and the summary executions that there's been evidence of, torture. The images of children, it breaks anyone's heart to look at it.
And, obviously, we have seen that frustration here in the U.S. on college campuses. And, Mr. President, signs at college campuses, some say "Genocide Joe." Any of us that have gone to those campuses, sometimes, we hear that chant.
Do you hear the message of those young Americans?
BIDEN: Absolutely, I hear the message.
Look, two things. First of all, there's a legitimate right to free speech and protest. There's a legitimate right to do that. And they have a right to do that. There's not a legitimate right to use hate speech. There's not a legitimate right to threaten Jewish students. There's not a legitimate right to block people access to class.
That's against the law. That's against the law. And so -- and if you look at the data, these demonstrations are real. But they're not nearly -- I mean, look -- and everybody's -- I made a speech on the Holocaust the other day.
BURNETT: Mm-hmm.
BIDEN: And I pointed out that it took seven decades to get to the place where after the Holocaust occurred, and there's still antisemitism.
Look what's happened in seven weeks, seven -- 70 -- I mean, what's happening.
[19:15:01]
Everybody's sort of forgotten about what happened in Israel, those 1,200 young kids murdered. I saw pictures. I went over there shortly after, a mother and a daughter being roped together and then kerosene poured and burned to death.
Nothing like that has happened to the Jewish community since the Holocaust. So, when I went over immediately after that happened, I said to Bibi, don't make the same mistake we made in America. We wanted to get bin Laden, and we will help you get Sinwar.
But we went into Afghanistan to -- it made sense to go get bin Laden. It made no sense to try and unify Afghanistan. It made no sense, in my view, to engage in thinking that, in Iraq, they had a nuclear weapon. Don't make the same mistake. Focus on -- and we will help you focus on getting the bad guys.
But -- and we have got to think through, what is happening after Gaza, after this is over? Who's going to occupy Gaza?
I have been working with the Arab states. I won't mention them because I don't want to get them in trouble, but five leaders in the Arab community. We're prepared to help rebuild Gaza, prepared to help transition to a two-state solution.
BURNETT: To govern it?
BIDEN: Well, to maintain the security and peace while they're working out a Palestinian Authority that's real and not corrupt.
BURNETT: All right, well, Mr. President, thank you very much. I appreciate your time today.
BIDEN: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: And, next, we have more of our exclusive conversation with the president of the United States.
He tells me what advice former President Obama is giving him right now on the campaign. And you're going to want to hear all of what he had to say about Trump right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: And he may not accept the outcome of the election"? I promise you he won't.
BURNETT: Promise that he won't?
BIDEN: He won't.
BURNETT: So...
BIDEN: Which is dangerous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:21:32]
BURNETT: Breaking news: "I promise you he won't." Those are the words of President Biden, telling me in our exclusive interview that he believes Trump will not accept the election results.
Here's more of our conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: So, obviously, we're here in Wisconsin. It was a crucial state for you, one of the ones that put you over the top. It was the same for Trump when he won in 2016.
And he was actually here last week on his day off from the Stormy Daniels trial. He told "The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel," Mr. President -- quote -- "If everything's honest, I'd gladly accept the results of the election."
And then he continued, though, with this: "If it's not, you have to fight for the right of the country."
How seriously do you take that threat?
BIDEN: Seriously, just like I did on September 6 -- I mean, on January 6.
The guy is not a Democrat with a small D. I mean, he is -- the idea -- look, you can't only love your country when you win, number one. How many court cases did they have, Supreme Court cases? They said -- they all said this is a totally legitimate election. This is Trump.
I mean, it's the same whether he -- and he may not accept the outcome of the election? I promise you he won't.
BURNETT: Promise that he won't?
BIDEN: He won't.
BURNETT: So...
BIDEN: Which is dangerous.
Look, I travel around the world with other world leaders. You know what they all say? Not a joke. Eighty percent of them, after we have a major meeting, they go: "You got to win. My democracy is at stake."
Their democracy is at stake, because, I mean, think of the things he's saying. He's saying, if I'm reelected, if he's reelected the president, he's not going to -- he's going to make sure his attorney general prosecutes those he tells them to prosecute. And if he doesn't, he's going to fire them.
BURNETT: On the first day.
BIDEN: Not just the first -- no, no, he said this about prosecution across the board.
He's going to -- "I am your retribution." What person's ever said anything like this, though? But he means it.
He's going to wipe out the changes we made in Medicare, changes we made in terms of drug prices. Changes we made, he's going to wipe it all out. And then he's going to put in a 10 percent tax, which is going to increase everybody's cost, the average American's cost, 1,500 bucks a year.
I mean, listen to what he's saying.
BURNETT: So, when you look at your campaign at this moment, it's tight. It's tight. And Barack Obama, your predecessor, of course, he has said that this is an all-hands-on-deck moment.
BIDEN: Yes.
BURNETT: That's how he described it. So he believes your rematch with Trump is going to be incredibly close. It certainly looks like it will be. What's his advice to you when you talk to him?
BIDEN: Keep doing what I'm doing and to make sure that -- what his advice is, the same advice I sort of gave him when I was the vice president, look, you have got to organize, block and tackle, people knocking on doors, putting up signs.
We have over 1.5 million individual contributors in America, wouldn't ever happen before, 70 -- 97 percent less than 200 bucks. We have opened all -- 100 headquarters across the country. He's opened none. We have 5,000 paid staff.
We're doing the block-and-tackling. We're going out and making sure that we knock on doors, get folks out the old-fashioned way. That's basically -- because it's awful hard, and we have raised more money than any president has at this point in the campaign.
[19:25:06]
And so I think I'm feeling good about the trajectory of the campaign. And you know as well as I do most people don't really focus and make up their mind until the fall. There's a lot going on.
And we will see what happens.
BURNETT: Mr. President, thank you very much for your time.
BIDEN: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: And the panel is me now.
David, let's just start with -- we just heard President Biden say about Trump.
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah.
BURNETT: He said that I promise you --
AXELROD: Yeah.
BURNETT: -- he would not accept the results of the election, obviously, presumably if he loses, I promise you, and he's dangerous.
Very explicit on that.
AXELROD: Yeah.
And I -- look, I think past is prologue on this, right? I mean, with Trump, either he wins or the election stolen. There's no possibility of another result and we saw that evidence itself, you know, in the insurrection. Even when he won in 2000, remember in 2016, he put a commission together because he was incensed that he had lost the popular vote by 3 million and suggested that that vote was stolen. They couldn't find any stolen votes then either.
But I think -- I think he's right and I think it is dangerous because the stakes for Donald Trump now are higher. If he loses this election, he is still facing trial. I think this is a very, very legitimate concern.
BURNETT: MJ, the president, did make major news on Israel in several places, saying that, yes, U.S. bombs have been used to kill civilians and saying that that he's had enough. We are walking away from Israel's ability to wage war in these population centers, artillery shells, the offensive weapons.
This is new.
MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It's new. This is the president articulating for the first time what exactly the consequences would be if Israel were to cross his red line. And remember that red line is, is if Israel actually goes into Rafah, the heavily populated areas of Rafah, which so far the U.S. assesses Israel hasn't done yet. That is the U.S. policy that we are now hearing straight from the president's mouth.
And, Erin, I was thinking about just the timing of this interview and the fact that you've got to ask him these questions about Israel and Rafah at this moment, because if you look back on the last week, U.S. officials and White House officials made really they clear that the decision to pause but they would not even confirm to reporters that back pods had happened, let alone elaborate on the reason. And now I suspect when going forward White House officials are asked about this, they're going to point to these words from the president as the new U.S. policy.
BURNETT: And, Jeff, that was a significant move from him to say. I've spoken to Bibi. I've told the war cabinet. Essentially enough is enough are the words he said. It is wrong.
JEFF ZELENEY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: It certainly was, and if you look at the trajectory of his remarks since October 7, he certainly has not moved nearly as much as his progressive base would like him to as he hears the approach protests on college campuses, he sees the "genocide Joe" signs as he travels around from event to event.
BURNETT: Yeah.
ZELENEY: So he has not done nearly enough to abate the protests, but he has moved considerably from where, you know, his history would suggest that he would have. He was locked arm and arm, a literal hug with Netanyahu when he was there right after that. So this is different than that.
What goes forward I think is the open question. He opened the door today, but I think is very significant. We'll see what happens in the coming days.
BURNETT: And you shake your head, Scott, because those who, of course, want the fullest, full throated support of which there are many in the Democratic Party.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah.
BURNETT: This is not what they wanted to here.
JENNINGS: Just the other day, he was saying our relationship with Israel is ironclad. And today he's essentially throwing up his hands, spooked, I guess, by these college protests and saying, well, we're going to not supply weapons because were going to try to micromanage this.
I want to hear the president United States unequivocally state and understand who the enemy and who so real cause of all this is, Hamas.
BURNETT: But he did say that they're killing civilians using American weapon.
JENNINGS: And he uses civilians as human shields. It's Hamas. Israel and the United States are not the problem here. Hamas is the problem, and Israel cannot have peace and security until Hamas is defeated and he is shackling our ally by micromanaging this.
And by the way, less bombs means more fighting on the ground. And that means more dead Israeli soldiers. That's the policy.
AXELROD: So let me just say this and I say this as this son of a Jewish refugee. I feel very strongly about Israel. I was devastated by what happened on October 7.
That doesn't prevent me from feeling solicitude for the starving children of Gaza and civilians who are collateral damage in this war.
[19:30:01]
And so, you know, I accept the political calculus. I've lived in this world all my life. It's also true that I think the president feels solicitude for these his people. I don't think its just the students protesting. He's been talking about this for months.
As for standing with Israel, he -- when the bombs float in from when the drones and missiles flown in from Iran, it was the United States who shot them down. He has provided most of the weaponry that it is being used right now by the Israelis. He -- and he did as was point as he pointed out, he went and yes, he hugged Netanyahu, and on that very day, he told them, don't make the mistake we made, don't pursue --
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And he talked about that today.
JENNINGS: But Republicans in Congress are going to be livid about this issue, right?
AXELROD: Because I think they have a good issue. I get it. I think that they think that they -- he's the president of the United States. They're just politicians trying to take advantage of the situation.
JENNINGS: No, I think they -- I think they support our ally and maybe he doesn't.
They're going to recall a time when we impeach the president of the United States for withholding military aid authorized by Congress from Ukraine $400 million. That was the basis of the impeachment. This is congressionally authorized military aid to our ally and he is withholding it for political reasons.
BURNETT: So --
AXELROD: Wait a second, I'm sorry, it's your show, the basis of that impeachment was that the president, the United States called the president of Ukraine, and he said, I need -- I want you to do me a favor and open investigation on the person who I think maybe my opponent in the next election. That was the basis of the impeachment.
JENNINGS: And he wants Israel to stand down on Rafah because his base is mad at him. I mean, it's a political reason.
AXELROD: Scott, the analogy just doesn't hold up.
BURNETT: Can I -- MJ, on this though? Is it why he chose to say this today and makes such a significant statement. What is the motivation for it at this moment?
LEE: First of all, can I say I think I know that one of the big headlines was the news he made about the consequences for Israel, the weapons withholding and all of that. I think moment where you asked him on people in Gaza die because of those bombs, those bombs referring to the bombs that the U.S. supplied to Israel. And he answered, civilians have been killed in Gaza as a consequence of those bombs -- I found that moment to be just incredibly stark and just a very black and white acknowledgement from the president on not only American complicity, but the president's complicity, right?
These are his decisions. And by the way, I mean, were talking about all of the political ramifications on the fallout. That complicity is precisely what the people who are protesting are angry about.
We don't know if those words and those actions will do much to calm the people who are that angry. But I do think the fact that he sort of came out and acknowledged that was a really important moment.
BURNETT: You know, we're here in Wisconsin, obviously, because its a must-win state. It was a must-win state, as I said to him, for it, for him, for Trump, the last time around. And he chose to come here today to a plant where Trump had had that huge announcement with the golden shovel for Foxconn, the jobs didn't materialize, Jeff, and now here we are and President Biden saying 100,000 people are going to be trained in A.I. here.
But on the economy, he was very defensive, said he's already done -- already turned it around.
ZELENY: There were a few words in there. He said, we've already turned it around. Of any words from the interview that could be used in a Republican ad against him? That is it. Every time the president has come to Wisconsin issue, this is the
fourth visit. He comes with an achievement. This was $3.3 billion, hugely significant. He's done a bridge in Superior. He's done lead pipes here in Milwaukee, have been along on several of these trips.
So yes, there's significant achievements, but he also said these jobs won't come for three more years or so. What voters do not see right now is immediate aid. They see the inflation, they see the gas prices.
But people are split. I was talking to voters here throughout the week and a retired couple, Dennis and Maureen Glenn said that they do not blame the president for this. They wish younger voters, like some people are family, would tighten their belts by generic foods.
So you see an age split here in terms of what the thing is, but job creation versus inflation, inflation is a big problem for the president, the White House knows it.
AXELROD: I don't understand this. I don't understand all these months later, you know, he went -- I thought they spent 25 million mistakenly last fall touting Bidenomics and making the same argument that the president is making here. It is absolutely true, the world was plunged into an economic crisis and America was plunged into an economic crisis by the pandemic. And we've come back faster than almost any other country.
And he's right about that, but that's not the way people are experiencing the economy. They're experiencing it through the lens of the cost of living and he is a man who's built his career on empathy.
[19:35:05]
Where -- where is why not lead with the empathy? And I think he its making a terrible mistake. You know, it may not be -- if he doesn't win this race, it may not be Donald Trump that beats him, it may be his own pride.
BURNETT: I mean, he was -- you know, when I asked the question going through some of the negatives, when he said we've already turned it around. And I mentioned that Trump leads him in terms of voter trust and the economy by a wide margin, which he does in every poll, he says, the polling data has been wrong all along. You guys do a poll at CNN, how many folks do you call it even get one response.
LEE: I mean, he was quite defensive about that and he's been defensive about pulling in the past, but it's true that you can point to a positive data in the economy, but the reality still remains at that hasn't translated into positive economic outlook across the board.
But you know, just on the question of you wonder how much an announcement like the one that we saw today actually matters to people. I was at that Microsoft event and I was in the bathroom after the president had spoken and this woman walks in and she's by herself and I hear her. She's just like clapping. And she's saying yes, yes, working factories. And she's not talking to anybody. She's like saying this to herself.
Clearly, she is excited and I just think like we shouldn't underestimate that something like that does mean something to a community, especially like this. They were so let down by the Foxconn situation.
But I think you've got to sort of how complicated this is when you asked him about the day-to-day pain that people are feeling because of prices being so high. And his answer was, well, people have more money to spend now and yeah, they're angry, but things cost more. What do you do about that?
BURNETT: So, Scott, there was one other thing that we talked about. I want to play it, but this is just the juxtaposition, right? Trump came here last week on his day off from the Stormy Daniels trial, which is Wednesday, he came because of Wisconsin must win for him, too. But the way they're spending every other day is very different.
So I asked President Biden whether he's following the trial. Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: I've been in the courtroom a couple of days. Have you been following that at all?
BIDEN: Not -- only on the evening news I catch.
BURNETT: Yeah.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So only on the evening news.
I mean, you wouldn't try to disdain and say I'm not, but at night because during the day, his days are very different. He's on the campaign trail and he's doing --
JENNINGS: Yeah.
BURNETT: Where's Trump? I mean, when you look at that side-by-side, forget the golden shovel, it's very different.
JENNINGS: Yeah. And I had my doubts about whether a conviction or an acquittal or a hung jury here would have any impact on Trump's image, no matter what happens.
And so, Biden says he's following it at night. It's following it more than most Americans were following it at all.
They are following this conversation about food prices. I agree with Ax. I think his economic messaging is incredibly week. I thought he whined when you correct him.
AXELROD: I change my point of view then.
JENNINGS: No, you can't.
And then I thought he whined -- you correctly confronted him with the statistics and the polling and he whined about that, and then, of course, he went wobbly on Israel. I -- I think he is desperate for -- I think he must be mortified when he looks at poll after poll that says the American people trust Donald Trump more on the economy. They trust him to be a strong leader and they believed that the world is in chaos because he's weak and Trump is strong. It must be mortifying and he can't find a way out of this cul-de-sac.
BURNETT: All right. Well, all of you, thank you so much and so wonderful to all be together here in Milwaukee, on a beautiful day. But it was not yesterday, but we got a gorgeous spring day here in Wisconsin.
And next, we are learning new details about a significant change in strategy by Trump's legal team hours before he is back in that courtroom. They are now planning to spend a lot more time questioning Stormy Daniels as the cross-examination continues. We're going to tell you what we're learning tonight about that.
And the story everyone's talking about today, RFK claiming that a doctor told him a worm ate part of his brain and caused memory problems. And tonight, speaking of the political conversation, he's joking, he could eat five more brain worms and still win in a debate.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:42:47]
BURNETT: Tonight, Stormy Daniels, just hours away from returning to the stand and Trump's hush money trial, and we're learning she will face a much longer cross-examination that originally had been planned by Trump's legal team. This, after nearly four hours of testimony in which she described an explicit detail her alleged sexual encounter with Trump.
Paula Reid is OUTFRONT with new reporting from her sources tonight.
And, Paula, obviously, we're now just hours away from being back in that courtroom. And this is a major last-minute pivot by Trump's team to keep Daniels on the stand longer than planned that you our learning about. Tell me what you know.
PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Kristen Holmes and I are learning is that this still has a little ways to go because they want to address some of this reputational damage that may have occurred while she was on the stand because remember, this case does not succeed or fail based on the testimony of Stormy Daniels.
She's a main character in the story. She gave. Prosecutors are first- hand account out of what was worth $130,000, right, after "Access Hollywood" tape before the election. What exactly happened that Trump would want to hide? She also undercut one of the defenses saying that, look, he really wasn't interested in protecting his family. But what they're going to be focused on tomorrow is the fact that you've raised the possibility multiple times that this alleged encounter wasn't consensual, and, Erin, and they're upset about that because that is not what she has said historically though in her new documentary, she did compare this alleged encounter with Trump to an experience she had as a child. She is, of course, a sexual abuse survivor.
So this is something they want to focus on. Now, keep saying the case does not succeed or fail on her testimony, but it really does appear that it's going to come down to Michael Cohen. So, everyone is asking how soon could we see him? Expect Stormy Daniels to wrap up tomorrow.
Well hear from at least one other summary witness, someone who just gets evidenced in this week. Michael Cohen could come as soon as this week, but we will definitely see him next week. And I'm told, Erin, likely take about three days to get through that critical testimony.
BURNETT: All right. Paula, thank you very much. And our experts are all with me.
Ryan Goodman, let me start with you. You know, they -- it was very clear in the courtroom yesterday at the end of the day when I was there, that if they just stayed a little longer, they probably would have finished with the cross and then they would have had a redirect, I understand, a re-cross.
But now there's this change of strategy that Paula and Kristen are reporting on, that this cross-examination is going to be a lot longer and a lot more intense.
[19:45:07]
Why do you think that could backfire for Trump's team?
RYAN GOODMAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: So I think it backfires, especially if by going after Stormy Daniels in order to protect Trump's reputation, what they mean by that is the concerns about his reputation publicly, not towards the jurors. So that's the motivation to extend this and then try to go after a testimony can backfire in a couple of ways.
The first is that it could just mean that she testifies more and more about the details as to why she now were saying that she felt uncomfortable in the situation and some of the testimony that she gave is towards the end of the spectrum of non-consensual sexual encounter. And the more they elicit that, that could actually be worse for him for the jurors.
And then the other way in which it could backfire is right now, they might act actually having a basis to appeal. They try to even say that this should be a mistrial because of the prejudicial information that came in from Stormy Daniels because it was so salacious, et cetera. Now they will actually be eliciting it potentially. So that also might undermine their ability to use that as a basis to appeal the final judgment.
BURNETT: Right. So, Terri, as Paula said, Trump's lawyers -- part of the reason they want to do this is to, they want to ask these extra questions, they believe it will help protect Trump's reputation in specifically due to this issue that she raised the possibility just a much a much darker tone around the encounter that she describes, right, in terms of the pressure she fell, but it was not consensual in that in these tones that she added to it. Obviously, Trump has repeatedly denied any sexual encounter at all.
So, Terri, how fine a line does the defense need to walk with its questioning, right? I mean, they don't want to admit it happened.
TERRI AUSTIN, HOST AND LEGAL ANALYST, LAW & CRIME NETWORK: It's going to be a very fine line that they have to walk. And I understand that they want to bring his reputation back, but what they should do is ask one question. Are you trying to say Stormy Daniels that you were raped? That's a yes or no. Move on.
Then they need to focus just on credible ability and bias. And I think Necheles has already done that with the beginning of a cross- examination, where she said, you hate Donald Trump, don't you? And she said, yes, I do. You want to see him in jail, don't you? And she said, I just want him to be held accountable.
So those are the types of questions that I think they should focus on spend as much time doing that as you want, but don't deal with what happened in that sexual encounter because that's just going to go south.
BURNETT: Now, Stephanie, last night, you called it. You were -- we were talking. You said Trump's not going to take what his lawyer said. He's going to demand that they really go after Stormy Daniels tomorrow in the cross-exam. And now here we are hearing were going to do exactly that.
How ugly and nasty will tomorrow have to be before he is happy because I'll tell you, being in the room yesterday on the cross, it was a pretty nasty cross to start with.
STEPHANIE GRISHAM, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Yeah, he's going to -- he's going to want them. Like I said, last night, he's going to want them to just fight for him and in his mind goes low as possible and he doesn't -- I don't think understand that tomorrow. I think that the lawyers will be performing for him rather than the jury.
I think, you know, as Ryan said as well, I think that I think this could backfire in many ways. I think that she's probably had been watching news coverage. She's probably been talking to the prosecution in getting prepped. And I don't think she's -- I mean, to me, she's just had time to reflect.
She's never said that he forced himself on her. She's always said (VIDEO GAP) --
BURNETT: Oops, sorry, Stephanie --
(CROSSTALK)
GRISHAM: -- if they go hard on her, it could backfire. And again -- oh, am I back?
BURNETT: I think -- I think let's try to work on it for a second because I heard am I back but nothing else.
Ryan, Trump -- I want to ask about the gag order because Trump obviously has an appeals court now, he's asking them to expedite a ruling on his appeal of the gag order as he continues to rail against it. So he goes on social media today.
He says: It's a really bad feeling to have your constitutional right to free speech, such a big part of life and our country. So unfairly taken from you, especially when all the sleazebags, low lives, and grifters that you oppose are allowed to say absolutely anything they want. It is hard to sit back and listen to lies and false statements be made against you knowing that if you respond, even the most modest fashion, you're told by a corrupt and highly conflicted judge, you'll be put in prison.
So, okay, he's allowed to say whatever he wants about the judge. I'm just zoning in here, Ryan, on sleazebags, low lives and drifters that you oppose. Is that violating the gag order on witnesses?
GOODMAN: I think it is. If the D.A. wants to bring that to Judge Merchan, I think they have a very strong case for it.
Part of the reason they have a very strong case from it is that its obvious from context who Donald Trump is talking about. If you knew nothing, you would know he's probably talking about Stormy Daniels testimony and having sit back and listen to it. But then if you know about some of the other Truth Social post that he has put out, including one in which he identifies her as a sleazebag who was lying and making misrepresentations, that's one of the prior Truth Social posts where he actually is quote-tweeting Michael Avenatti, her lawyer, it's about her.
[19:50:12]
And that's one of the Truth Social post that Justice Merchan has said violated the gag order. He held President Trump in criminal contempt for the prior one, and the reason he did is he said that these kinds of Truth Social posts are denigrating to witnesses and it's obviously denigrating to to call somebody a sleaze ball and say that they're lying and misrepresenting.
BURNETT: Yeah. And it was clear, right, the whole testimony that he called her horse face and a sleaze -- and sleaze bag, and that was part of the testimony yesterday.
Stephanie, in terms of where the gag order itself, prison has been thrown out by the judge, Martin Horn, former New York City corrections and probation commissioner. So he knows all about this, knew about the room said Trump would go to Riker's Island, the infamous location, if he goes to jail for violating the gag order, in a self-contained cell small space alone. Secret Service would be outside.
Those details have to be known to him at this point, right, Stephanie?
GRISHAM: Yeah, absolutely. You know, I was thinking about this because if you would've asked me a week or two ago, I would've said absolutely not. There's no way he's trying to get thrown in jail.
But he's got to know now what the plan would be from his personal Secret Service agents. And so, yeah, you know? And the news has been talking about it, too, that perhaps the judge would give him two or three hours for the first time.
So if I were him and I know him quite well, he will be okay sitting for two or three hours in his building (AUDIO GAP) --
BURNETT: All right. The shot froze again, so thank you all very much. I appreciate your time.
And next, RFK Jr. says a worm ate part of his brain and cause memory problems. Now he's joking about it, saying he could eat five more and still beat Biden and Trump in a debate.
Well, part of the reason we're all watching this story is because its both terrifying and you want to know what would happen. So, a top parasite expert is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:55:55]
BURNETT: Tonight, the worm that everyone's talking about in RFK Jr.'s brain. So "The New York Times" is reporting that Kennedy found the dead worm, parasite, after suffering from severe memory loss and mental fog. And so then he goes to several top neurologists and they see a dark spot on one of his brain scans.
And according to a deposition, a couple of years later, Kennedy says a doctor in New York determined that the spot was caused by, quote, a worm that got into my brain and ate a portion of it and then died.
Now, RFK Jr. responding to this report posting on social media tonight, quote, I offer to five more brain worms and still beat President Trump and President Biden in a debate, making light of the whole thing.
But Professor Scott Gardner runs one of the worlds largest parasite collections at the University of Nebraska, Lincoln, and he joins me now because truly, Professor Gardner, this -- this is something that has captivated people in disturbing ways.
So, RFK Jr. says that the worm gotten his brain and ate a portion of it, you know? So as an expert on parasites, does that sound right to you? Is this the kind of thing that can happen? SCOTT GARDNER, BIOLOGICAL SCIENCES PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF NEBRASKA-
LINCOLN: Oh, yes, you can get this kind of these kind of parasites in your brain, but it doesn't really eat the brain basically, it just grows and then move some of the brain out of the way as its growing. So it's basically a tapeworm larva, probably that got in there when he was on one of his trips to the South Pacific or into Asia. And then it was in there for awhile and apparently from what I've heard is that it's dead now. So then it starts to calcify and kind of goes away. It doesn't really go away, but it just stays there. It's not going anywhere once it starts to calcify.
BURNETT: So it was there. He says it's there, calcified. I mean, the whole thing is just deeply disturbing I think for all of us, I mean, just to imagine that "The Times" -- "New York Times" reports, Professor, that in this deposition, RFK Jr. says, quote, I have cognitive problems clearly, I have short-term memory loss, and I have longer-term memory loss that affects me.
Is this something that could happen from parasites like this?
GARDNER: Oh, definitely. This kind of a parasite that we think that it is. I don't know if they got a species diagnosis on it or not. But this kind of parasite is pretty common in people around the world where hygiene is not so good. And people eat pig and so pork is a staple. And the basic life cycle goes from human to pig, human to pig, and where people get in there and the problem.
Sometimes the problem is that sometimes the eggs are ingested accidentally, and then they basically burrow into your intestine and they get distributor distributed around in the blood system and end up in the brain or any other parts of your body.
But they really do gravitate toward the brain quite a bit, the species.
BURNETT: Okay. So why is that? How does it get from your -- I mean, the whole thing is just horrible to contemplate, but how does it get from your intestine into your brain? I mean, is it -- does it move up there? How's that happened?
GARDNER: Well, we could go into it quite detail, but what happens is the egg hatches in the small intestine. It goes into the blood system, that hepatic portal system goes into your liver if it makes it to deliver, it goes to the heart. If it makes it to the heart, it goes to the lungs. If it makes it back -- it might get stuck in any of those places. Have it makes it to the lungs and it goes back to the heart and then goes out to any part of the body.
And for some reason, this species generally -- doesn't generally, but many times ends up in the brain of its host and people have this quite often. And it's called taenia solium. It's the pork tapeworm very interesting one.
BURNETT: So, is he lucky? Is RFK Jr. lucky that it didn't do more damage? GARDNER: Yes, especially since he only had one. That means he probably was infected by someone who didn't wash their hands after using the bathroom or something. So there was or perhaps infected salad -- salad with the tapeworm egg on it.
He probably didn't have the tapeworm actually growing in this intestine. The way this parasite works is it uses humans is the main host, and pigs as the intermediate host. But if the person -- if he had this, if you'd had a tapeworm in him, he could have been infected from one of the tapeworm eggs inside him, but more than likely it was probably an accidental infection from some hygienic problem in a restaurant or somewhere else.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Professor Gardner, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much.
And thanks very much to all of you for being with us here live from Milwaukee.
"AC360" starts now.
