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Erin Burnett Outfront
Police: No Sign CEO Murder Suspect Was A United Healthcare Client; KFILE: Hegseth On Don't Ask, Don't Tell; New Drone Sightings. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired December 12, 2024 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:34]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
We have breaking news. New York investigators revealing crucial details about why the alleged CEO assassin may have targeted Brian Thompson. This as we learn new information about Luigi Mangione's life behind bars, along with who has and who has not visited him in prison.
Plus, KFILE unearthing comments from Trump's defense secretary pick saying that allowing gay troops to serve in the military is a Marxist agenda.
Also, breaking new video just into OUTFRONT of suspicious drones that have been flying near New York City over New Jersey just moments ago, not far from a military site and a nuclear power plant.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news, the mystery deepening. The NYPD chief of detectives just revealing that there is no indication that Luigi Mangione, who is accused of murdering the UnitedHealthcare CEO, was even a client of UnitedHealthcare. Investigators have been looking at whether denied claims played a role in the brazen killing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSEPH KENNY, CHIEF OF DETECTIVES, NYPD: We have no indication that he was ever a client of UnitedHealthcare, but he does make mention that it is the fifth largest corporation in America, which would make it the largest healthcare organization in America. So that's possibly why he targeted that -- that company,
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Mangione right now is behind bars in Pennsylvania.
That's where he was arrested at a McDonald's on Monday. Tonight, we have new details just coming into OUTFRONT about what is happening inside that prison, his jail cell, we understand, is 15 feet by six feet. We've also learned that he is not interacting with other inmates at what is the oldest state prison in the state of Pennsylvania, a building that has housed a number of notorious killers.
We're going to have more details that you'll see first OUTFRONT in just a moment.
But first, I want to share with you some new information about what Mangione had in his possession when he was arrested, because we have found more out about that in just these past hours. Mangione was carrying $5,000 worth of cash, all in $100 bills, according to the NYPD. And as the investigation ramps up, authorities in New York are now executing.
We understand as many as three search warrants as I speak. Those warrants, according to a source, include that backpack found in Central Park and the cell phone, that cell phone number that was found not far from where Brian Thompson was murdered when he was walking down the street to that Midtown Manhattan Hilton.
Investigators have been searching the hostel where Mangione had been staying, as well as Thompson's hotel and his hotel room. This massive search comes as ABC News tonight is reporting that New York prosecutors have started presenting their evidence already to a grand jury, hoping that an indictment will come quickly and clear the way for Mangione to be extradited from the state of Pennsylvania to New York City.
I want to go to Brynn Gingras, OUTFRONT, live in New York here.
And, Brynn, what more are you learning about the case right now against Luigi Mangione and how it is moving forward?
BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, well, it's strong, Erin, and we know that this new reporting that the grand jury is hearing evidence in this case is the next procedural step in this process, especially to secure that indictment and then go to the extradition hearing and get Mangione back here in New York on the murder charge. And we know that they are going to be hearing a lot of evidence.
We've been talking about it all week. We know about the fingerprints, we know about the ballistics.
And we are learning tonight, as you mentioned, about the at least three search warrants that have been conducted as part of this investigation, including that backpack, which, if you remember, had monopoly money in it. It had clothes. And also that burner phone that were hearing from sources that a search warrant was also conducted on that.
If you remember, there was a partial fingerprint that was lifted from that burner phone. Police saying yesterday that they know that that matches with the fingerprints of Mangione. And it's unclear just yet what sort of things they've been able to get off that burner phone, but very likely that would go in front of the grand jury as well.
Another important note witnesses, if you remember, think back to that video, Erin, of the incident when it happened, that alarming video of the actual shooting, you could see people, or at least one person running away from the scene. It's very possible a witness like that would go in front of the grand jury in order to secure this indictment. So all of this is just, again, part of the process as investigators continue to build their -- what is being called a very strong case against Mangione. And were learning tonight that that hearing is expected to happen on November 30th.
[19:05:06]
So that is when the Manhattan prosecutors and prosecutors in general, and Mangione himself will be inside that courtroom again, trying to get him back here to New York.
BURNETT: Well, it's just incredible.
Of course, that would be the Monday right before New Year's and New Year's Eve. And what would be normally a completely dead time for the system. But to think that they would put it that way right in the center of the holiday shows how quickly you know the speed with which they want to move.
All right, Brian, thank you very much. And we are also learning new details tonight, as I mentioned about Luigi Mangione life behind bars and the conditions that the Ivy League grad is facing now after a life of consistent privilege and immense wealth.
Jason Carroll is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Luigi Mangione is fighting extradition to New York. While that happens, this is the prison where he's being held. It's the state correctional institution at Huntington, the oldest operating state prison in Pennsylvania.
Mangione cell looks much like the one you see here, according to a law enforcement source, his actual cell is 15 by six feet. A Department of Corrections spokesperson says he's in a single cell and not in solitary confinement. He is not interacting with other inmates at this time. He has a bed, sink, toilet and a desk with a seat.
STEVE BOHNEL, PITTSBURGH POST-GAZETTE: It's always interesting to see, you know, a prison in your backyard that, you know, frankly, most people wouldn't be able to pick out of a map or wouldn't know the name of. And now everyone's interested in the type of food he's eating. You know, the cell block that he's in.
CARROLL: Meals at the facility are served three times a day, 6:15, 10:40 and supper at 5:15. Tonight on the menu, Mangione has a choice between chicken parmesan and a dish called pizza beans.
The Department of Corrections says Mangione has taken his meals in his cell and is not interacting with other inmates, adding all inmates are afforded time outside their cells even if they are a higher custody level. Mangione's case has received a great deal of national attention, so
perhaps no surprise he's already known to some inmates, some of whom shouted his name to media outlet NewsNation freely.
INMATE: Free Luigi!
CARROLL: That type of notoriety is also an added security concern at a correctional facility.
JUSTINE PAPERNY, PRISON CONSULTANT: Any prison, state or federal is a predatory environment, and there could be prisoners who are there for a long time, perhaps looking to get in the media, get some attention. So he's got to learn to enjoy his own company in a little cell with a desk, with a toilet, with a little with a pen, to be able to write with a sink because he will not be around prisoners. As I see it for quite some time, the prison just can't risk it.
CARROLL: Huntington's inmates have made headlines before Mangione.
REPORTER: Why did you do it?
CARROLL: Cosmo DiNardo, who was convicted of murdering four men and burying them on his parents' property, served part of his life sentence there.
Nick Yarris also served time there. Yarris was wrongly convicted and sentenced to death in 1982 on rape and murder charges. His sentence overturned in 2003 due to DNA evidence. He says his time at Huntington are years he will never forget.
NICK YARRIS, WRITER: Because he decided to send me to Huntington prison, the hardest prison in America at that time.
JOE ROGAN, PODCAST HOST: What was he going to do before that?
YARRIS: I don't know, but he made sure I went to a place that they broke you.
CARROLL: Mangione's time there could be measured in weeks, as prosecutors push to have him brought back to New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL (on camera): And, Erin, the Department of Corrections also tells us that Mangione is allowed to have visitors there at the facility. But so far, the only person to visit him has been his attorney. And that was this afternoon -- Erin.
BURNETT: That's very interesting, to say the least.
All right. Thanks very much, Jason.
So, Tim Clemente is with us now, former FBI counterterror agent, criminologist Casey Jordan, and criminal defense attorney Mark O'Mara.
So, Mark, let's just start with where -- where Jason finished that point. He said that there's been one visitor and its been his lawyer. Now, we understand that Mangione is allowed visitors, right? So he could have had family, for example come, that is allowed.
But it has not happened. Only his lawyer, as the only single person to visit. Does that signal anything to you, Mark?
MARK O'MARA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, in one sense, yes, if the family is not behind him. But we also have to sort of temper that thought with the idea that when inmates are first in jail, I have my rules that I tell them, which is keep away from the family. I literally say, because don't forget, all phone calls are recorded, all visits are recorded.
And that's his definitely a sort of devastating information that you give to the prosecution.
Here's what I tell them. You can talk about kittens and butterflies and cake pops. Other than that, do not speak a word on the phone to anybody other than your attorneys because its devastating evidence. So that could be another reason why.
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But one would hope that the family is going to come and show their support pretty soon.
BURNETT: Right, right. And obviously the, you know, the lawyer interactions would be would be covered by privilege, right? So they wouldn't be able to listen to those.
Okay. So, Tim, we know Mangione is in a single cell. I was describing it 15 by 6, not interacting with other prisoners at this point would have been able to, but is not doing so. And, you know, you heard those prisoners yelling "free Luigi" there, which is sort of an odd juxtaposition with the entire context of that prison.
But he's already notorious. Tim is the point. He's already notorious inside that prison. What does that mean? You know, when they say security threat, what does that mean?
TIM CLEMENTE, FORMER FBI COUNTERTERRORISM AGENT: Well, it means he's at great risk, Erin, because the fact that everybody knows who he is and, you know, even those that are supporting him apparently are yelling out his name.
But everyone in that prison, I'm sure knows who he is. And there are going to be some people that want to be more famous than him.
And so you've got lifers and others doing time there, and he's a big target. I mean, a big target. He's a young guy, he's handsome, he's rich. And so he is not the average person in that prison.
And I can assure you that there are many, many prisoners that would like to bring him down a couple of notches, if not, bring him all the way, six feet under.
TAPPER: Which is, you know, just incredible the context here of what this reality now is.
Casey, we haven't seen him since he was in court two days ago when he had that outburst and was yelling, ostensibly still at the corporate system or the health care. It was unclear, but it was that sort of an outburst.
But today, the NYPD said that Mangione was never a client of UnitedHealthcare, didn't have any interaction with that company specifically. What -- what does that say to you about the reason he did this or his motive?
CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST, ATTORNEY & BEHAVIORAL ANALYST: Luigi Mangione most likely sees himself as a champion of the people, of the underdog. He's like a, you know, a caped crusader, a Batman who is standing in for, you know, all the people of Gotham as the evil health care insurer, you know, ruins our lives.
And I have no doubt that he has spent a great deal of time not only reading books about this. You know, about the "deny, delay, depose," but really and truly thinking of what he could do to try to make a difference.
And as he -- as he rabbit holes, you know, for lack of a better verb, he really does think he has to do this. He talks about the bean counters and the parasites. He thinks he's one with the others.
Now, that's interesting when you think about the fact that he has grown up in a in a life of incredible privilege and affluence, but the idea that he's never been insured by them and probably doesn't even know anyone specifically who has suffered because of, you know, problems with UnitedHealthcare, he just picked them because they are the giant, the largest health care company in America that he wants to slay on behalf of the weak and the underdog.
And these delusions of grandiosity, you know, really do point to some deeper mental health issues that his lawyers are going to want to uncover.
BURNETT: And what could those be, Casey? Specifically, is there anything just that kind of stands out to you here so far?
JORDAN: Well, sure. We never diagnosed, but I mean that the outburst and the writings reminds me, you know, and his -- his affinity for Ted Kaczynski and his writings. I would not be surprised since he just kind of had this huge behavioral shift six months ago that everyone agrees was massive, that he's decompensating. Its consistent with schizophrenia, which is very typically onset in the 20s of young men. So it will be interesting to see what happens when a psychiatrist is able to evaluate him.
BURNETT: And, Mark, when does that happen? And obviously, does that from the perspective of his lawyer. How quickly do they want to do that? And is that something we would know about when it first happens?
O'MARA: Well, we should not know about it because its supposed to be privileged communications. And whenever you bring in an expert to the jail, although everyone can see him go in, you're not supposed to, but it should happen yesterday. You want it to happen as close in time to the event so that the psychiatrist is going to come in, is going to see some of that because, as was just said, if he is suffering from a specific mental health disability, it is going to show better closer in time.
So I would have my psychiatrist, forensic psychiatrist in there as soon as possible and get those forensics workup done, particularly to get to how his thought processing is, because when you have this type of break, if that's where the defense is going, it takes a while to unravel. But you can see it from a psychiatric standpoint pretty quickly.
BURNETT: Right, right. And I know, you know, Tim, as we heard his attorney tell us last night, right now, he's clearly going to plead not guilty and not by way of insanity, just not guilty. But they would need to -- to open that path. If this is as clear cut of a case as Brynn is indicating that officials think it is at this point.
Tim, so we've also found out something new today about what Mangione did. And that is, you know, when he took a cab to that George Washington bus terminal, which is one of the biggest in the country, but it's up in the north. You know, Bronx of New York City.
[19:15:06]
And then he didn't get on a bus there that he actually got back on a subway and went all the way back down to Penn Station. That would take an hour plus to do that. And this is after he had committed the murder, according to police.
That's how he went to Philadelphia. And then they don't know from there how he got out to western Pennsylvania and Altoona, where he was ultimately apprehended.
What do those movements tell you, Tim?
CLEMENTE: It tells me planning, cunning and concealment of his tracks. I mean, it is possible he went to 178th Street, you know, bus depot, and couldn't get a bus and decided to take something out of Penn Station. But it seems more like he's covering his tracks. I thought it was a brilliant move to ride on a bicycle through Midtown, especially in the morning when rush hour is about to begin.
BURNETT: Yeah.
CLEMENTE: And he's not going to get stuck in any traffic, and then taking public transportation and moving by cab up to the bus depot and then by subway down south, very hard to track those movements, very, very hard because he's underground for half the time. And in a bus with dozens of other people the rest of the time.
So it's pretty clever. It's a good way to conceal your movements. And obviously it worked. It took a few days to figure out where he was. So it was -- it was successful until this point. BURNETT: It was successful until that point, of course, Casey. And
then it turned out he had more than $5,000 on him. But that's all he had. I mean, that's not very much if you're -- you're thinking about disappearing basically indefinitely.
JORDAN: But he also had his passport. So there is --
BURNETT: With his real name, right? His real passport.
JORDAN: With his real name, right. And he had a bunch of fake ID and who knows? I mean, he is highly, highly intelligent, not just because of his education. I mean, he -- he had to have done a lot of dry runs, knowing that the cameras were going to pick him up at the bus station, double tracked red herrings. I mean, he knows what he's doing.
Would not surprise me at all if he has stashes of other money, bank accounts he can access along the way, debit cards he can draw down on $800 a day. You can live for a long time like that. As long as the money is in the accounts and you can access them. It wouldn't surprise me if he had stashes, safe houses, all manner of things set up. He wrote to the feds in case he was caught. But remember, that was a notebook that he had in a backpack, which perhaps he planned to plant, abandoned so that he could further get away. I'm not sure he ever believed he would get caught.
BURNETT: I was just at mark. Bottom line, how quickly do you think an indictment will come from the crown grand jury?
O'MARA: Very quickly. I would imagine. This week, next, they are getting to him very quickly and they're going to get their indictment pretty easily. So I would imagine several days, if not less.
BURNETT: All right. Well, we'll see. And thank you all very much.
Next, Trump's pick for defense secretary defiant over KFILE's. New reporting insisting that comments he made on tape opposing gays serving openly in the military are fake. We have those tapes.
Plus, moms across America celebrating Trump's decision to tap RFK Jr. to lead the nation's health agencies.
(BEGIN VDIEO CLIP)
REPORTER: What was your reaction when you saw that President Trump had named him to this incoming position?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I cried.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And we have breaking news. More alarming drones spotted just before we came on the air in the East Coast of the U.S., near New York over the state of New Jersey.
We have new video into OUTFRONT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:22:48]
BURNETT: Breaking news, KFILE unearthing comments made by Pete Hegseth opposing gays serving openly in the military.
Donald Trump's pick for secretary of defense calling the openly gay service members a threat to military standards and part of a, quote/unquote, Marxist agenda. He also said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE HEGSETH, DONALD TRUMP'S PICK FOR SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: The dumbest phrase on planet Earth in the military is: our diversity, is our strength.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: KFILE's Andrew Kaczynski is with me now.
So, Andrew, Hegseth is calling your reporting false today, as it turns out, though, he's been talking about this for years. So there's -- there's quite a bit of how he felt out there. And you found it.
ANDREW KACZYNSKI, CNN KFILE SENIOR EDITOR: That's right.
He's been talking about this for a long time. He has said policies that allowed the policies that allowed gay people to serve in the military were part of a, quote, Marxist and leftist plot.
That's what he said, that prioritizes prioritize social justice over military readiness. Now, he's also said, Erin, that allowing gay troops eroded military standards that eventually led to things like women in combat and transgender soldiers. And all of this is part of what he labels woke policies in the military that he says undermines the military's main mission.
Now, why is this important? Well, if he's secretary of defense, he's going to seemingly have a lot of oversight over a lot of these policies. Don't ask, don't tell. That was set by Congress. So that's not something that can be easily, you know, changed. But the transgender troops, women in combat, that's something that he is going to have a lot of oversight on.
Now, why Erin, look, in his book, he actually initially even said that he was sort of ambivalent to when don't ask, don't tell was repealed. He said he was serving at the time, but he believed that this became sort of a gateway for broader social justice policies.
Take a listen to him here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEGSETH: And what you're seeing is a military right now that's more interested in social engineering, led by this president than they are in war fighting. So as a result, through 'don't ask, don't tell", and women in the military and these standards, they're going to inevitably start to erode standards because they want that one female special operator, that one female green beret, that one female army ranger, that one female navy seal, so they can put them on a recruiting poster and feel good about themselves. And it has nothing to do with national security.
[19:25:02]
And these war fighters are realizing they're just going to start ticking away at the standards until they get one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KACZYNSKI: Now, that was him talking about that back in 2015. Take a listen to him just this summer, claiming that this was all part of sort of a Marxist plot for social justice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEGSETH: So it's just like everything else the Marxists and the leftists have done. At first it was camouflaged nicely and now they're just they're just open about it. But it did. I mean, it started with the Clinton under "don't ask, don't tell" trying to change that policy. And then when he did, there was a lot of criticism on that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: It was pretty clear that, right, the Marxist and leftists with gays in the military, now he is defiant in light of your new reporting, he denies what -- what these words say. Here he is repeal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEGSETH: Oppose the repeal? No, I don't.
REPORTER: There was some new reporting about it this morning.
HEGSETH: More false reporting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Just yesterday, before your report came out, Andrew, he did not have anything to say in his own defense.
Here's how that exchange went down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: I'm just wondering your thoughts on the "don't ask, don't tell" policy in the military. If you think changing that was a mistake?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So silent then obviously today denying it. What else is he saying about what you found here? KACZYNSKI: Yeah, he has really sort of been all over the place. That
was that was before our story published. He was asked about it. Then today he sort of he sort of backtracks.
And let's look at first, this is what they told us when we reached out to him. This is a statement from the Trump transition. They said: Like President Trump, Pete wants to see the U.S. military focus on building being the world's strongest fighting force, not on cultural and social issues. Bottom line, if you can meet the standards you can serve. But given the threats we face, our priorities shouldn't be lowering standards and wasting taxpayer money to meet arbitrary social quotas. Our priorities should be readiness and lethality.
Now, what is really interesting here is he didn't answer the question. He said he didn't oppose the repeal. And then I got a push notification later today from "Politico" that when he was asked about a report, he said, well, look, I don't respond to CNN, but he came out and he said he did support gays serving in the military. So we've just seen going from ignoring from what he said back then, which is that he opposed the policy to where he is today. So he's going to be facing probably a lot of questions over this.
BURNETT: He certainly will. And that will come out in the hearings, because obviously this is all on tape. Andrew, thank you very much, KFILE.
And next, Trump today drawing a link between vaccines and autism, which has been debunked retracted. It's just not a real thing. But he says he wants RFK Jr. to investigate.
We'll introduce you to one influential mother, a lifelong Democrat who says Kennedy couldn't be confirmed soon enough.
Plus, about 10,000 North Korean troops are fighting right now on the front lines for Russia. And here is how Putin is saying thank you to Kim Jong Un.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:32:28]
BURNETT: New tonight, President-elect Trump announcing Robert F. Kennedy Jr., his pick to be Americas top health official, will investigate unfounded claims that link vaccines to autism. Trump says, quote, we're going to have a big discussion. The autism rate is at a level that nobody ever believed possible. If you look at things that are happening, there's something causing it.
Well, okay, but its not vaccines. Trump also ruling out that that maybe he may not eliminating some childhood vaccination programs. He's saying that if I think its dangerous, if I think they are not beneficial. But I don't think its going to be very controversial in the end.
Okay. Despite long established scientific evidence that vaccines do not cause autism, and in fact, vaccines have saved hundreds of millions of lives around this world, there are many Americans that are excited about Kennedy's nomination because of the vaccination issue. But it's not only that. It's not just because of that.
And Meena Duerson is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ZEN HONEYCUTT, MOMS ACROSS AMERICA: Hey, chickens! And that's George Clooney, the rooster.
MEENA DUERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Zen Honeycutt moved to this farm because she wanted to be able to grow her own food.
HONEYCUTT: My kids can now eat eggs from our chickens and milk from our goats, even though they used to have those allergies. That just goes to show you, it's not the food. It's what's been done to the food.
DUERSON: Her crusade against the food industry started 12 years ago.
HONEYCUTT: So I was like millions of moms across America dealing with allergies and autoimmune issues. So, I was a very stressed out mother because I thought my kids could die from food. It wasn't until 2012 when I learned about GMOs in the food supply and I was like, this has got to be it.
DUERSON: Honeycutt founded Moms across America.
HONEYCUTT: Hi, boys.
DUERSON: She's the nonprofit's primary employee and rallies a grassroots network to, quote, raise awareness about toxic exposure from genetically modified foods or GMOs to pesticides.
HONEYCUTT: I mean, there's a saying goes that a worried mom does better research than the FBI.
DUERSON: So for you, it's all connected.
HONEYCUTT: Yeah, it's all connected. Yes. It's vaccines, it's GMOs, it's glyphosate. According to many scientists, National Vaccine Information Center, Bobby Kennedy, the vaccines are actually weakening the kid's immune systems.
DUERSON: By Bobby Kennedy, she means Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. He's a former adviser to Moms Across America and has been nominated to lead the Department of Health and Human Services.
What was your reaction when you saw that President Trump had named him to this incoming position?
HONEYCUTT: I cried. Many other people cried. We were so excited.
Guys, it's happening.
I was, you know, had been a lifelong Democrat. DUERSON: In this election, did you end up voting Republican?
HONEYCUTT: Yes. I think a lot of our moms didn't necessarily just like run to the right.
[19:35:03]
They felt abandoned by the left.
And when the right said, hey, we're here for you on health freedom, they said that's something that I can align with.
DUERSON: Could another candidate down the line win you back?
HONEYCUTT: Absolutely.
DUERSON: Honeycutt now says she's in talks with Kennedy's team about a potential role in the administration.
HONEYCUTT: There's the Capitol behind me.
DUERSON: She's no stranger to Washington. She's been coming to Capitol Hill to advocate for food safety issues for years.
HONEYCUTT: I don't care if somebody's a Democrat or a Republican, I am visiting them.
DUERSON: In 2022, Moms Across America had a lab test, 43 samples from school lunches in 15 states and found detectable levels of chemicals, including the weed killer glyphosate, though below the thresholds deemed unsafe by the EPA.
She brought the data to lawmakers like Senator Cory Booker, who this fall sponsored the Safe School Meals Act.
SEN. CORY BOOKER (D-NJ): This is a crisis.
HONEYCUTT: Thanks, hockey mama. Yes, we do think we rock. We know you rock as well.
DUERSON: She spreads the word about her work on social media and her podcast.
HONEYCUTT: Welcome to the new MDs.
And I'm thrilled to be the M of the new MDs, one of them, anyway. We're all moms here. Many people concerned from the Democrats that the new administration will get rid of health care.
If Kennedy is able to do what he wants to do at the head of the HHS, we won't even need health care. I'm saying we won't be going to the doctors because we won't be sick.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We need to get rid of the concept of mandating the vaccines in order to attend school, I believe.
HONEYCUTT: Well, I think the next administration is going to be on board with you with that.
DUERSON: The claims that you and your group are making, the CDC and the FDA are saying that vaccines are safe. They say that the schedule for kids is safe. The EPA, the FDA and the USDA say that GMOs are safe. The EPA says that glyphosate is safe in the levels that they've approved. The NIH says vaccines do not cause autism. That doesn't move you at all.
HONEYCUTT: No, absolutely not, because (VIDEO GAP) agencies say that GMOs and vaccines are safe, I have seen too much independent science to say that they are not. Let's be clear no one wants to see polio come back. Measles, whooping cough. And the way that we're going to not have those diseases come back is for children to have proper nutrition.
DUERSON: Unsurprisingly, the CDC refutes Honeycutt's claims, telling CNN vaccines don't weaken the immune system, while the diseases they prevent against do and the best way to prevent deadly outbreaks or debilitating cases of polio, measles and whooping cough is to get vaccinated.
But her fight against the food industry now has many mainstream allies. Senator Bernie Sanders just held a hearing on the health impact and regulation of ultra processed foods.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): The rate of childhood obesity in America has tripled.
DUERSON: The FDA now says it may ban red food dye in a matter of weeks.
HONEYCUTT: It was the unhealthy truth that's making our children sick, toxic legacy.
DUERSON: Does any of this make you feel like a conspiracy theorist? I don't feel like a conspiracy is to shut down information in order to protect the profits of the corporations. That's the real conspiracy.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: And Meena is here with me now.
I mean -- I mean, I really -- I mean, it's incredible you had such honest conversations with her, could really understand where she was coming from, her point of view.
But there is just so much science out there that refutes some of what she is claiming. Obviously, on vaccines, but even broader than that.
DUERSON: Yeah. And I think it's important to note that, you know, Zen and the moms in this group do not think of themselves as anti-science. They point to a litany of what they call independent science to support their claims. And those claims really run the gamut of things that have been largely debunked or discredited by the mainstream medical community or the scientific community, things like 5G is poisoning us. Chemicals in our food could cause people to change their gender identity. Vaccines could cause food allergies.
So these are claims that are not supported by the mainstream medical community. But the fear among public health experts is that by elevating someone like RFK, Jr., to this role in the HHS, that you're going to take these beliefs and put them on a national or global stage, which could lead to dangers, you know, of these diseases that have largely been eradicated coming back and ultimately, you know, make us less safe.
BURNETT: Right, like nutrition and polio being linked.
DUERSON: Right. And healthy food is not going to save you from polio.
BURNETT: Right, no.
All right. Well, Meena, thank you very much. And it's great to see you.
So Harry Enten is here with me now.
All right, Harry, as Meena, you know, it was fascinating report.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Yes, absolutely.
BURNETT: And I -- and I thought, and she's still sitting here, but I thought it was amazing how she really could have such a forthright conversation with someone because its important to hear this and to do it in, in an empathetic way, which she did.
So tell me something we don't know.
ENTEN: I'll tell you something that we don't know when it comes to how Americans feel about the governments ability to keep our food safe, the percentage of Americans who believe or have trust in the government to keep our food safe has been declining considerably this century.
Take a look here. Back in 2001 was 82 percent. 2019, it drops to 68 percent. And look at that percentage now down to 57 percent. That's a drop of 25 points since the beginning of the century.
And a big reason why you have that drop is because of parents. The drop among parents to keep our food safe has dropped considerably.
[19:40:03]
It's now down to about only 50 percent at this point.
BURNETT: Which is incredible. Now, when you think about vaccines actually in history, you can have an argument about all sorts of things, whether it's the wheel or the internal combustion engine. I don't know what you want to say.
ENTEN: Whatever.
BURNETT: But vaccines are on that list of something that could have been one of the greatest, you know, impacts on on human's certainly lifespan in terms of people living longer.
Science has proven again and again and again that vaccines work. But views that we just heard in Meena's piece are no longer on the fringe.
ENTEN: No, they're not on the fringe at all. In fact, they're becoming more and more mainstream. You know, we can look again at this trend line in terms of folks who believe that the U.S. government should require vaccinations from children. And what do we see here?
Look at this. Look at this trend line. In 1991, it was 81 percent who believed that we should require childhood vaccines. Look at that drop to 62 percent in 2019. And that dropped now to just 51 percent, just a bare majority.
BURNETT: In five years.
ENTEN: In five years. I mean, my goodness gracious, as the son of a pediatrician, I never thought I would see it, but here we are.
BURNETT: Here we are. And one thing I will say is certainly correlated is, is COVID and the COVID vaccine.
ENTEN: Absolutely.
BURNETT: I mean, that is -- that is a reality. And --
ENTEN: A hundred percent and distrust in government overall.
BURNETT: Yes. All of those things very much related. But RFK Jr. has more support from voters, according to what you're looking at, than any of Trump's other cabinet picks.
ENTEN: Yeah, Fox News just came out with a recent poll which essentially asked, should these folks get confirmed by the United States Senate? And what do we see with RFK, Jr.? We see that the clear plurality, 48 percent believe that he should be confirmed, compared to just 43 percent who say no. So more thing he should be confirmed than not.
And when I was looking around the cross tabs, one of the most interesting things is where does he get that most support from? From young folks, from parents, from folks who might have children growing up. And so, I think that really just tells you that this whole thing, this kind of what I would call anti-science, but they would say they're looking at the science sort of movement is really gaining steam with the younger generations.
That's part of the reason why we see all that distrust with vaccines and the food protection in this country.
BURNETT: All right. Harry, thank you very much.
And next, breaking news, new video just into OUTFRONT of those mysterious drones once again returning to the skies near New York, officials have been sounding the alarm. I mean, what is that thing? Questions are growing over who is flying them and why. Plus, Putin's wild payback. There's a special report tonight we have
on how the Russian president is choosing to thank North Korea and Kim Jong-un for helping him fight Ukraine.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:46:55]
BURNETT: Breaking news, suspected drones flying near New York City tonight over the state of New Jersey. New video into OUTFRONT showing the drones hovering over a neighborhood in the northern part of New Jersey. This is Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal says the growing number, because there's a bunch of them, of mysterious drones, some of which are the size of small cars, should be shot down.
People have reported seeing the drones in dozens of locations around New York City, including near a military base, conducting advanced weapons research, Donald Trump's Bedminster golf course in New Jersey, and according to my next guest, New Jersey's nuclear power plants.
Now, authorities say that they do not know where the drones are originating from or where they're landing. There's a federal investigation underway. The pentagon, though, has said that the unmanned drones, quote, pose the most significant threat to the U.S. homeland.
OUTFRONT now, Mayor Michael Melham of Belleville, New Jersey, where some of the drones have been spotted and you've been briefed by state police.
So can I just start by asking you, have they -- have they given any satisfactory answer to you about what drones the size of cars are doing flying around?
MAYOR MICHAEL MELHAM (I), BELLEVILLE, NJ: So Wednesday we had an unprecedented meeting where 200 mayors in New Jersey all gathered for a briefing, and we were told the beginning of that briefing that we would leave that briefing knowing exactly what the state knows. And we left that briefing knowing very little. So that's telling you they don't know anything.
BURNETT: Okay. So you've taken some of this video and this is some of the video, where's the video, you took video of literally looking up. This is what you're seeing. These drones, some of them the size of bicycles, the size of small cars.
So from what you understand and all the -- you don't know who's behind these. You don't know what the intent of the drone is. They don't know who's controlling the drones. They don't know where the drones are landing or taking off from. None of the above?
MELHAM: They know absolutely nothing. Absolutely nothing. It's actually shocking and appalling because we went down there wanting answers. And we deserve answers. The residents of New Jersey --
BURNETT: Yes. MELHAM: -- we want answers.
We don't want to be told it's an aircraft. We know it's not an aircraft. We know exactly what we're seeing. We know what's hovering just basically feet above our houses. These things are tree lined.
I mean, this is really concerning and people deserve to know answers.
BURNETT: They do. They do deserve. I think that's just -- that's a fact. Now, the Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut, nearby state, he said that the United States should shoot down the drones if necessary because they're flying over sensitive areas, as you've been pointing out, nuclear power plants near Bedminster, where President Trump, of course, has a home.
Would you -- do you think that's the route that they should go?
MELHAM: These drones have to come out of the air. And I think that here in New Jersey, especially the United States of America, I think we have the capability to take drones out of the -- out of the air, if we wanted to. We were told during the briefing that these drones are hovering over critical infrastructure, as you said in your intro, you're talking about nuclear power plants, you're talking about reservoirs, you're talking about Picatinny Arsenal, Fort Dix, Trump Bedminster.
I mean, these are flying over critical infrastructure. Yet they're telling us that there's no credible threat yet. They're also telling us they don't want to take them out of the air. They're also telling us they don't want a temporary ban. And we know for a fact we're able to see them. They have blinking lights on them.
[19:50:01]
Something's not adding up here.
BURNETT: No. And all of that, and I know Senator Blumenthal was saying, if necessary, shoot them down. It would seem, especially in the context of the Chinese, you know, balloon -- weather balloon, remember, they took a long time to make a decision on that. Finally, they did shoot it down.
But all of this leads towards, are these actually Pentagon assets?
MELHAM: I can tell you what they're not. They're not little green men. So the fact that you have blinking lights on these things and the fact that they have every reason that they're trying to give us as to why they cant shoot them down or why they can't ban them, and the fact that we were briefed that we've had a coast guard working with our New Jersey state police, our helicopters have seen them.
We asked when they go out to sea, are we going to shoot them down? No, we're not going to shoot them down. Why not? We're told -- well, we don't know. There might be a payload on them. There may be this on them, maybe that on them. But, you know, the fact that they're resisting taking them out of the air. Now, keep in mind one way to take a drone out of the air is to jam its
-- its signal. So radar and these drones are not emitting any radio frequency, and we can't jam them, so we can't find them. That's interesting.
So who would have the capability at that level to get that done? You would probably think it's the highest levels of our government.
BURNETT: Yes. Although Republican congressman from New Jersey, Jeff Van Drew, said, quote, Iran launched a mother ship probably about a month ago that contains these drones. The mothership is off. I'm going to tell you the deal. It's off the east coast of the United States of America. These drones should be shot down.
Is that crazy talk?
MELHAM: The drone should be shot down. The White House has actually walked that back and said, that's not true. Keep in mind, we could be looking at two different things. We could be looking at a known threat that our federal government is aware of, and this could very well be a countermeasure that we're seeing.
Having a drone six foot in diameter, small, the size of a small car hanging out over our critical infrastructure might be actually us. That might be us because were aware of a threat.
BURNETT: That's -- that's true, but incredibly unsettling for -- for you, for people in your town state. I mean, people deserve more. People deserve better than that.
All right, mayor, thank you very much. I appreciate your time.
And next, call it zoo diplomacy, and it's deadly serious. Putin is sending Kim Jong-un a lion, bears and even a yak to thank him for those 10,000 North Koreans who are fighting on the front lines in Ukraine. A special report next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:56:50]
BURNETT: Breaking news, the United States just announcing a new half a billion aid package for Ukraine, including weapons and other equipment from U.S. military stockpiles. Just after President-elect Trump accused President Biden of escalating the war in Ukraine, saying, quote, it's crazy what's taking place. It's crazy. I disagree very vehemently with sending missiles hundreds of miles into Russia. Why are we doing that? We're just escalating this war and making it worse.
This is dramatic new video into OUTFRONT shows Ukrainian forces successfully striking and taking out dozens of Russian targets in Eastern Ukraine. As Putin is thanking Kim Jong-un for sending thousands and thousands of North Korean troops to the front lines in the war.
Will Ripley is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From the belly of a hulking Russian cargo plane, crate after crate of exotic animals from the Moscow zoo, a gift from Russian President Vladimir Putin to North Korean leader Kim Jong-un, arriving in his capital Pyongyang, the flight from Moscow, nearly nine hours, Russian state media says the animals include an African lion, two brown bears, two domestic yaks, five white cockatoos, 25 assorted pheasants and 40 mandarin ducks.
Their new home, Pyongyang's central zoo.
You think he wants to be petted?
I took this video at the zoo in 2016, when Putin gave Kim a pair of Siberian tigers. They've been exchanging a lot of animals lately, symbols of their alliance against the U.S.-led world order.
In June, Kim sent Putin a pair of North Korean hunting dogs. In August, Putin reciprocated with nearly 450 goats and 24 Orlov Trotters, Kim's favorite horse breed. Both strongmen famously use horses in state propaganda, projecting alpha male energy in turbulent times. In the years since Kim took his armored train to Russia, he's gotten plenty of other gifts from Putin, from a set of drones and a bulletproof vest to this Russian-made armored limousine. The two leaders drove it around town during Putin's rare visit to Pyongyang. And then there's Russian oil, believed to be more than a million barrels since March.
In exchange, North Korea is reportedly expanding its weapons production for Russia's war in Ukraine. Around 10,000 North Korean troops are in Russia's Kursk region, and this may be just the beginning, says Anton Sokolin with NK News.
ANTON SOKOLIN, DATA CORRESPONDENT, NK NEWS: North Korea hasn't participated in any wars for many decades now. It's a valuable opportunity.
RIPLEY: Could North Korean troops be replacing or bolstering the Wagner group?
SOKOLIN: It is highly possible.
RIPLEY: The Wagner group is Russia's private military force, crucial in Ukraine and other global conflicts. Now, North Korean weapons and troops are in the mix. Experts suggest Pyongyang may seek even more significant exchanges like advanced nuclear technology. As part of Kim and Putin's deepening military partnership.
Will Ripley, CNN, Taipei.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: It's fascinating. Just a list of the animals, the 400 goats. All right. Thanks so much for joining us. Really appreciate it. See
you back here same time tomorrow.
"ANDERSON COOPER 360" begins right now.
