Return to Transcripts main page
Erin Burnett Outfront
New Details About Russian General Killed In Moscow Blast; CEO Murder Suspect Indicted On First-Degree Murder Charge; Canadian Official Threatens To Cut Off Energy To U.S. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired December 17, 2024 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:35]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
The breaking news, Putin vowing revenge as one of his top generals was blown up in the middle of Moscow. How much of a blow is this for Putin? Well take you live to Russia tonight.
Also breaking, the alleged CEO assassin tonight facing a major new charge. First degree murder as new details tonight are just coming in to OUTFRONT about Luigi Mangione's life in prison, including the surprising number of people who have contacted him.
And an eye for an eye. Top Canadian official says if Trump imposes tariffs, Americans have to feel the pain, too. So how far is he willing to go? He's my guest.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news, new video showing the moments before Putin's general in charge of nuclear, chemical and biological forces was murdered as Russian officials tonight vow revenge.
Former Russian President Dmitry Medvedev warning that Russia will, quote, destroy those responsible for the murder. And just look at these pictures taken shortly after Putin's general was murdered, executed in broad daylight on the streets of Moscow taken out by an explosive device that had been attached to a scooter right there off that sidewalk.
On Russian state television today, the coverage has been wall to wall.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IGOR KOROTCHENKO, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, NATIONAL DEFENSE MAGAZINE: Revenge is a dish that has to be served cold. So let's set aside all the talking and red lines. Let's just wait when the retribution comes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: It's hard to overstate the effect of such a strike on Putin on the streets of Moscow. Russia's capital is home by Ukraine. Ukrainian forces secretly infiltrating Moscow, then executing a top general outside an apartment building.
I mean, it comes as Putin is facing pressure on the battlefield as well, the crucial relationship with key ally North Korea under pressure. We've got some new video tonight that shows the bodies of North Korean and Russian soldiers lined up in the Kursk region of Russia, which Ukraine obviously has invaded and controls, in part, Kim Jong-un's forces suffering heavy losses. Ukraine says North Korea is now 12,000 inexperienced soldiers make easy targets on the battlefield, and the U.S. military said today that North Korea has already suffered hundreds of casualties.
And while that alliance is being tested, Putin is facing a meltdown in Syria, the home of his only Mediterranean military port. Let's just show you the new satellite images we have here, because we've been looking at these every day. And what you see here today is very important on that Russian base in Syria. Military vehicles now lined up at that key port of Tartus waiting to be picked up after, of course, rebels toppled the regime of Bashar al Assad.
That's another major blow to Putin. And as it comes as there are reports that the mother of Putin's prominent political enemy, Vladimir Kara-Murza, has been hospitalized amid fears of poisoning. And in just a moment, I'm going to speak to investigative journalist Christo Grozev, who helped uncover the plot to poison Alexei Navalny.
I want to begin our coverage, though, tonight on all these breaking developments with Fred Pleitgen, who is in Moscow this evening.
So, Fred, this happens on the streets of Moscow, so far away for almost everyone else in the United States, but not for CNN, because you're there, you're on the scene moments after it happens, an assassination in broad daylight of -- of such a prominent and crucial general. What did you see and what are you learning?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, we did get there shortly after all of this happened, Erin.
And you're absolutely right. It happened right on the street as this general left what apparently was his apartment. The Russians are saying it happened about 6:10 a.m. and if you look at Russian media, they're absolutely irate about all of this. And they're saying, look, other people could have been injured. This is the time the children go to school.
However, it does appear as though this was a very targeted attack with that scooter standing right in front of that entrance. And as we got to the scene, I can tell you that the immediate thought that we had is that for the Russians, this is an extremely big deal. You saw that in the amount of security forces that were there on the ground, military security forces, police, security forces as well.
The whole area really widely cordoned off, traffic stopped. We're seeing some of the coins there on our screens right now. And when you look at the investigators, there were police investigators there. There was special investigative committee there, but there were also military investigators as well, which definitely showed how seriously the Russians were taking all of this and how big a blow this is for Moscow.
[19:05:12]
Of course, this is a very senior and very prominent general that was killed. And you're absolutely right in the heart of the Russian capital, I think about four miles away from the Kremlin. So, the Russians absolutely irate.
And one of the interesting things that we've been picking up on throughout the course of the day is that an increasing number of Russian politicians are now coming out and trying to make links to the West. They're talking about revenge against the Ukrainians, but at the same time also saying that there are links to the West as well. There was a senior Russian politician who came out and said he believes that the people who are behind all of this were taking their orders from the West.
And there's another senior senator who came out earlier tonight and he said that he believed all this shows the desperation of the Ukrainians and their western backers on the battlefield. And then he went on to say that he believed that all of this could complicate any sort of efforts by the Trump administration to start a dialog with the Russians to end the conflict in Ukraine, Erin.
BURNETT: And crucial as I broaden it out, the blame for something so crucial and significant to the West beyond Ukraine.
Fred, thank you very much. Who was there and saw that scene on the streets of Moscow today.
And as Russia vows revenge, we are now getting an up close look at exactly how the assassination went down and how important General Kirillov was to Putin.
Matthew Chance is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: This was an audacious attack in the center of Moscow. Now, dramatic new video shows one of Russia's most senior military officers leaving his apartment building with his assistant before an explosion kills them both.
Investigators say the attack was targeted, a device planted on a scooter outside probably detonated by remote control.
This is the controversial figure who was taken out, Lieutenant General Igor Kirillov here pinning medals on soldiers headed Russia's radiological, biological and chemical defense forces. Just yesterday, he was accused by Ukraine of war crimes, overseeing the use of chemical weapons against Ukrainian troops.
He was also a prominent and enthusiastic advocate of Kremlin-backed conspiracy theories, repeatedly accused Ukraine of developing a nuclear dirty bomb, and of hosting us biolabs to develop biological weapons. Kirillov also accused Pentagon contractors and Western pharmaceutical companies have testing toxic drugs on socially vulnerable Ukrainians. All allegations widely dismissed in the west as absurd.
Still, a Ukrainian security source tells CNN Kirillov was a legitimate target and was killed by them, with Russian officials now vowing revenge, including against the top Ukrainian leadership.
DMITRY MEDVEDEV, DEPUTY CHAIRMAN, RUSSIAN SECURITY COUNCIL (through translator): Law enforcement agencies must find the killers in Russia and everything must be done to destroy the perpetrators who are in Kyiv. These perpetrators are also known the military and political leadership of Ukraine.
CHANCE: It's unclear how Russia, already battling hard in Ukraine, can respond to yet another high profile assassination, and there have been several in recent months, all well away from the front lines.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHANCE (on camera): Well, Erin, the fact a top Russian general has now been killed in the heart of the Russian capital shatters any illusions of security there. And of course, it's a stark reminder that Russia's often distant Ukraine war can still come home.
Back to you, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Matthew.
And Christo Grozev, as promised, is OUTFRONT now, investigative journalist on Russia's most wanted list.
So, Christo, look, you understand the details of this and the significance of it more than anyone. How big of a blow is such an assassination of General Kirillov? Four miles from the Kremlin, heart of Moscow to Putin.
CHRISTO GROZEV, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST; ON RUSSIA'S "WANTED LIST": Well, Erin, you said it yourself. You can't overstate the relevance and the importance of this blow to Putin. And you've covered the sort of optical part, which is it happened right next to the Kremlin. Matthew drew the attention to the fact that this brings the war home to Muscovites, which has been a problem for Ukraine, that Ukraine has always suffered from the fact that people in Saint Petersburg and Moscow don't see the war as something close to them, and therefore they are indifferent or supportive of the war effort.
And Ukraine has tried to bring it home to Muscovites. This is one way to do it. But there's a much more practical and direct effect on the war effort for Russia of this assassination. People like General Kirillov felt that they're immune from being killed on the frontline because they're physically not on the frontline.
BURNETT: They're safe in Moscow.
GROZEV: They're safe. We've seen people like that, especially another unit that we covered a
couple of years ago, which was the unit that programs the missiles that hit kindergartens in Ukraine.
[19:10:03]
They also felt that they're safe in Moscow.
So what Ukraine is now trying to do is take out people that are in the command position that will no longer feel safe, and any replacement for them will no longer feel safe.
So imagine what is happening right now. None of the deputies for General Kirillov wants the job, and this will be a hiatus. This will be a problem for a significant amount of time, because nobody will want to be in a position to be killed next.
BURNETT: And you talk about nuclear, chemical, biological -- I mean, the power that he had, what he oversaw is, is so significant. And you actually have tracked a lot of his communications.
General Kirillov's phone calls before the war and during the start of the war. And it is in that tracking that you're able to just to discern how significant he was as an individual, as a top general to Putin's war.
GROZEV: Well, there's again, no two ways about it. He's in a position that is very close to the position of a deputy secretary of state, secretary of defense in Russia. He has that rank. And he was talking in the in the -- he was definitely aware of the war beginning, and he was part of the preparation.
And we see this from communication between him and the top GRU military intelligence generals in the weeks before the war. And what we see after that is in the first days of the war, there were a few incidents with chemical weapons applied against the negotiators. The Ukrainian negotiators in the early negotiations.
BURNETT: Remember, there was always whether they were poisoned.
GROZEV: Exactly.
BURNETT: Roman Abramovich was part of that, the oligarch.
GROZEV: Abramovich was part of that.
They were all poisoned with something that remarkably resembled the effect of chloropicrin. That is exactly the chemical weapon that the United States accused General Kirillov of deploying much later, two years later, against Ukrainian soldiers, and during that -- those first days, there was a very, very heavy traffic of communication between General Kirillov and the GRU officers on the on the front line in Ukraine, in the vicinity of these attacks on the negotiators.
So he was definitely heavily involved with everything that was happening on the front. BURNETT: So then you hear about and obviously such an attack on the
streets of Moscow. I mean, there's got to be, in a sense, a certain rage for someone like Putin, and then this discussion that there's going to be revenge and retaliation.
Okay. But you heard Fred saying it started out, well, Ukraine did this. What are we going to do? And now as the day has gone by, it has switched to Ukraine's backers and the West. And what does this mean for retaliation?
GROZEV: Well, first, this shift into the west did it, and not Ukraine did. It is very something we've seen many times when Ukraine, as we see through all the reporting, blew up Nord Stream in 2022. Russia could not afford to acknowledge that it was Ukraine because it was too humiliating -- humiliating for Russia to acknowledge that the Ukrainians, those inferior people as they see them, did this to us.
And the same thing is happening now. They're elevating the accusation to the West, but they will still try to avenge on Ukraine. They will call them the perpetrators that are commanded by the puppeteers. But there's nothing that can escalate further. And that was what Fred said earlier.
They've already been assassinating people in the streets of Ukraine for -- for years. So what new innovation will they do by they will. They've been trying to kill anybody they can get their hands on. So I don't think there's an easy way for them to retaliate.
BURNETT: So this -- this comes in the context and we're reporting about what, you know, Putin is dealing with in Syria, with the chaos there, the mass pullout, that's a huge strategic loss for him. We the context here, "Reuters" is now reporting that police in Germany say that a woman is in a hospital because of a suspected poisoning.
And Vladimir Kara-Murza, who was poisoned and imprisoned by Putin, of course, multiple times and was, you know, served years in solitary, we just saw him when he came out here, said his mother was in a hospital in Berlin.
What are you learning about those stories and the cross there?
GROZEV: Well, there is a cross, but I'll take cue from Vladimir Kara- Murza, who's a good friend, and he has asked for -- for media to respect the privacy of the family. But I can only empathize with him at this time, because not only was he imprisoned twice by Putin, he was poisoned twice by exactly General Kirillov southward by the people who wield the chemical weapons inventory in Russia.
And for him to even suspect, even if it's not the case, but to suspect for a minute that his mother may have been poisoned, you can just imagine what that -- what feeling, what sentiment? That is.
So let's just take our time and see what reporting comes out in the next few days. But I'll honor the request of Vladimir to not talk about it. BURNETT: All right. And quickly, before you go, I know you're working
on new reporting about Putin's push to kill U.S. soldiers, Americans, U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan, a significant amount of money on that.
GROZEV: I mean, with -- I'll just tease the story, but we found out that at least $60 million, U.S. dollars, were paid over the course of seven years by the -- by the Russian intelligence, military intelligence to incentivize Taliban and other fighters in Afghanistan, to make the United States Army staying there very costly and to essentially force the decision that ultimately was taken.
[19:15:13]
It is one thing for them to destabilize a country. It's another thing to pay bounties for heads of American soldiers.
BURNETT: It certainly is. And you're talking about at least $60 million, incredible, and I know you have a whole lot more reporting and that story coming in these next days. And we'll see you to talk about that.
Thank you very much, Christo.
And next, the breaking news, the alleged CEO assassin facing a major new charge first-degree murder on the list as OUTFRONT is learning new details about who's trying to get in touch with him in prison.
Plus, our KFILE uncovering more controversial comments from Pete Hegseth and who he once claimed was behind January 6th.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
PETE HEGSETH, FORMER FOX NEWS HOST: Antifa folks took advantage of this to try to get to the front and try to agitate and create openings for themselves.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And breaking news this hour, these are live pictures of a vigil after the shooting in Madison, Wisconsin, at a school, as new details are coming in tonight on what police say may have led a female shooter to open fire.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:20:37]
BURNETT: Breaking news Luigi Mangione now charged with first degree murder in the killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson. A New York grand jury indicted him on what is a rare and serious charge in the state of New York. This specific way that they're using first degree is typically reserved for cases involving the killing of police officers or first responders, and for serial killers.
And it comes as a prison official tells our Jason Carroll that Mangione has met with his New York defense attorney, Karen Friedman Agnifilo, visiting Mangione on Friday in the Pennsylvania prison where he is being held. We're also learning that his family still has not visited him. In fact, Mangione has not had any visitors except for his attorneys.
Danny Freeman is OUTFRONT, outside the prison in Huntington, Pennsylvania.
And, Danny, you're learning new information about what Mangione life -- what these days have been behind prison walls as he now faces these major new charges tonight.
DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. That's right, Erin.
We have updated information about Luigi Mangione interactions with the outside world since he's been in prison. Or better said, the outside world is attempt to interact with him since he's been behind bars behind me.
As of today, a spokesperson for the Pennsylvania Department of Corrections, we've learned that Mangione has received 157 entries, or deposits into his prison commissary account. We also learned that as of this morning, he's received 33 emails and six pieces of mail.
Erin, that's up from the just two pieces of mail that we reported he received as of last night. And still, like you noted, Erin, the only visitors that he's had behind these bars has been his attorneys so far. And this again, comes all after those blockbuster new charges were announced in New York earlier this afternoon.
As you noted, the Manhattan D.A. officially announcing that new indictment on first degree murder charges in New York and also by a grand jury indicted for murder of the second degree as a crime of terrorism.
D.A. Alvin Bragg saying clearly, this was a killing intended to invoke terror.
Now, on Thursday morning, Erin, that's when we're going to see the next step of these proceedings involving Mangione. It's going to be here in Pennsylvania. He's scheduled to have two hearings back to back. One on those Pennsylvania charges, then the other one right after on extradition.
According to CNN's Kara Scannell, we do now expect him to waive that extradition and to go voluntarily to New York. That's according to his attorney. And if that's the case, a prison spokesperson, Erin, tells us that he could leave Pennsylvania right from that courthouse after that proceeding, if that is, in fact, what ultimately happens.
So this story, at least the Pennsylvania portion of this story, not quite done yet, but again, were learning more about his life here before he likely ultimately heads back to New York -- Erin.
BURNETT: Absolutely. All right, Danny, thank you very much.
And all of that, you know, significant detail there from Danny's reporting.
Joey Jackson joins me now, criminal defense attorney.
So, Joey, okay, I want to get your reaction to some of the details that Danny had there.
First, though, when he's talking about the charges, first degree murder. You know, to some, just you look at this and you go, a guy comes and assassinates someone on the street on video in the streets of New York. That's first degree, but it actually in New York state, things are different. It was second degree.
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.
BURNETT: They get to -- they get to first degree because they say that this was intended to terrorize.
JACKSON: Yes.
BURNETT: And so do you think this is a very, very high bar, right. I guess it means he can never -- life without parole. No way around it. Is the D.A. going to get a conviction on that?
JACKSON: So this is what they're doing. What DA generally do is they charge, number one, the conduct that's relevant to the offense. And number two, they charge what they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt.
It's an open question as to a conviction, and I say that even notwithstanding the compelling evidence. This is a guy who's seen as a deity. They're calling him Saint Luigi, right?
Do you get a jury who buys into the notion of the health care industry being so disruptive to the common person that this person deserved this, right? I'm speaking about the CEO who died.
BURNETT: Yeah.
JACKSON: So, you know, could you get a jury to nullify? Could you get a jury that's hung? I mean, the evidence is really compelling. I doubt it if you base it on the evidence and the facts alone.
The question is no, at least to this point. He deserves the presumption of innocence. We're not at trial yet, but from the public disclosure of the evidence, I think its pretty but I think what the prosecutor is doing is saying we're going to look at motivation.
Remember, Erin, you never have to show motive of a crime. You just have to show that the crime was committed.
[19:25:00]
In this instance, to the extent that you're charging terrorism, now, you get to the motivation, the manifesto, the hatred of corporate America -- all of that becomes admissible and relevant evidence.
BURNETT: All right. So what do you make of the -- what Danny's reporting? Thirty-three emails, six actually hard mails. That's odd to think about what those would be, 157 deposits for the commissary. I guess that's people giving him money, basically to buy food in the prison.
When you look at all those things, does anything stand out to you?
JACKSON: It does. I mean, the fact of the matter is, is that he struck a raw chord. If you listen to people who are on social media speaking about him, there's a hatred of the health care industry. And he picked a face of an industry.
You're looking at UnitedHealthcare, largest -- you know, they insure 1 in 7 people. And so who are you going to target for them? And I think that's what functioned into the D.A.'s charge of the first degree murder for terrorism. Clearly, he had a message.
BURNETT: Quickly before we go, police were talking about his mother. And when they had talked to her about whether it was her son, they had a conversation where she didn't indicate that it was her son in the photograph. They reached out when they -- the San Francisco police department said, hey, this looks like him, hadn't found him yet. They reach out to her because she filed a missing persons report.
She didn't indicate it was him in the photograph, but she did say it might be something she could see him doing.
JACKSON: Well, that's troubling and problematic. And it raises the question, morally right, whether she could have had any intervention to prevent this. Did she know that he was turning this dark, right? Indications are, though, Erin, that he'd been out of touch with the family since July, and there had been a break with respect to the communication.
But if you know something like that, maybe you get someone help and treatment or do something else other than allow them to engage in this behavior. But the people I just -- I've never seen social media reaction that is so on a person's side who committed just a blatant murder.
BURNETT: Yeah. All right, Joey, thank you very much.
And next, brand new case file reporting just in on Trump's defense secretary pick, Pete Hegseth, and what he was saying about the 2020 election.
Plus, Trump taking a major paper to court over a poll, a poll that showed Kamala Harris winning Iowa. Remember that in the final hours, Trump says it was brazen election interference. Does he have a case at all?
Harvard constitutional law professor Laurence Tribe is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:31:41]
BURNETT: Tonight, RFK Jr., driving a wedge between Democrats on Capitol Hill.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TAMMY DUCKWORTH (D-IL): I can't believe were even having a discussion about whether or not we should revoke the polio vaccine. He is an anti-vaxxer.
SEN. KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND (D-NY): RFK Jr. has also spoke about food safety issues, which I care a lot about. I also appreciate some of his views on clean air and clean water.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: It comes as KFILE tonight unearths comments from another controversial nominee, Pete Hegseth, Trump's pick for defense secretary.
KFILE revealing Hegseth in the days after January 6th justified the attack and fueled those false flag claims about Antifa.
And KFILE's Andrew Kaczynski joins me now.
So, Andrew, you have been digging into Hegseth's path since he was announced as defense secretary. Pick to find what he said, whether it squares with where he is now on crucial issues. Tell us what you found now.
ANDREW KACZYNSKI, CNN KFILE SENIOR EDITOR: Yeah. And what's really remarkable about this audio that we found is not only that he spreads this sort of insane conspiracy theory that the initial break in to the U.S. Capitol was done by leftists disguised as Trump supporters.
But in this same audio, he also seemingly justifies the actions of those Trump supporters by suggesting that their actions were rooted in legitimate grievances about the 2020 election. He himself says here that he thought the 2020 election was rigged. He immediately also attacked those who condemned both Trump and the rioters. He said he didn't like the knee jerk reaction.
Erin, this podcast is just four days after that attack on the U.S. Capitol. And he said particularly that he saw that these -- these leftists, these Antifa members with his own eyes who broke in, who started, not Trump supporters. Listen to what he said here.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
HEGSETH: Antifa folks took advantage of this to try to get to the front and try to agitate and create openings for themselves. They want chaos, ultimately, but what they really want to do is further the narrative.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KACZYNSKI: Look again, and this was four days after the riot. And the thing is, there is -- there was -- he couldn't have seen this himself because it didn't happen. There have been multiple investigations. There have been investigations by the FBI.
This is not a thing that happened. The people who broke in were Trump supporters. It was not a leftist or Antifa disguised as Trump supporters.
BURNETT: No, no. And obviously he's saying he saw it, obviously didn't see it.
So, so much of this nomination, Hegseth specifically, has also focused on his personal issues, right, allegations about his drinking, a sexual assault claim. But he also has a long history that you found of pushing election fraud conspiracy.
KACZYNSKI: Yeah. He explicitly said in this podcast that he thought the 2020 election was rigged. He attacked those who were dismissing the saying that all these claims of voter fraud were baseless. He said, why is the media taking the line of secretary of states and governors who are saying that this didn't happen?
And what's really notable -- again, this is four days after the riot and there had already been all of these court cases from the Trump -- the Trump campaign team. I think it was 60. They had all been disproven.
His own attorney general had said that this hasn't happened. So, this was really a totally unfounded. Listen to him.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
HEGSETH: The mindset of these people was not overtly radical.
[19:35:01]
It wasn't violent at all. They feel like if my vote isn't fairly counted. If that's rigged against me, too, what is my recourse?
I didn't anticipate the rigging and the extra constitutional way they would do mail in balloting and signature check and all of the guardrails that came off came off. And so if the ballot box isn't there, that's what you saw.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
KACZYNSKI: So we reached out to the Trump transition. We asked if they wanted to comment on what he said, how he squares that versus everything. We know that this didn't happen and they did not. They declined to comment.
BURNETT: All right. Andrew Kaczynski, thank you very much, KFILE. And also tonight, Donald Trump is now suing another media outlet. This time it's "The Des Moines Register". That's the newspaper in Iowa over that pre-election poll. Remember the one just before the election that showed Trump losing the state to Kamala Harris by a very wide margin?
Trump, of course, won Iowa by a very wide margin, more than 13 points. The lawsuit is accusing "The Des Moines Register's" longtime pollster and the paper itself of brazen election interference. Those are the words they use in the filing.
And this is Trump's latest media target in a long list. Just look at who he sued just over the past two years alone. And of course, there was the settlement where he got $16 million from ABC News this week, which I'm going to ask about in a moment.
I want to start, though, with Harvard constitutional law professor Laurence Tribe, nation's preeminent legal expert on the First Amendment.
On this issue of where we are, Professor Tribe, is suing "The Des Moines Register", and that pollster. Is there any legal basis for Trump to do this -- to sue a pollster and the paper, because it showed him losing and was wrong?
LAURENCE TRIBE, CONSTITUTIONAL LAW PROFESSOR, HARVARD LAW SCHOOL: No, there's no legal basis at all. He claims it was election interference. But if anything, when Ann Selzer, who is a terrific pollster, mistakenly said that it looked like Harris was pulling ahead and that's what her poll showed.
If anything, that hurt Harris because it may have led people to be overconfident. It certainly didn't hurt Trump in any way. There's no basis for a lawsuit. There are no damages.
There certainly no false statement of fact. But that's not the point. The point in the history that you showed with the various suits, including the settlement by ABC for $16 million with a very weak defamation suit that Trump had brought. That whole history shows that the dominoes keep falling.
That is one newspaper or media outlet after another folds in anticipation of being pressed to the wall by a limitless budget that Donald Trump has backed by all of his financial backers. He can crush people, and his threat to do that has become his mode of lawfare. And the danger is to our whole system.
People lose faith in polls. They lose faith in the newspapers. They lose faith in the media. The whole system crumbles.
BURNETT: So let me ask you, because as you point out, this is not about "The Des Moines Register", right? It's much bigger than that. And in fact, Trump has made very clear his view of much of the media. Just listen to some of the threats that he's put out there, Professor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think CBS should lose its license, but I think ABC should lose its license also because of what they've done.
We sued them yesterday for a lot of money. We sued them. And I sued them. And we call it election interference, fraud.
If "New York Times" is the enemy, "The Washington Post" is the enemy of the people, too. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: All right. So that's just some of it, though. I mean, just on Thursday, Professor, he said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We had a great first term despite a lot of turmoil caused unnecessarily. And -- but the media is tamed down a little bit. They're liking us much better now. I think -- if they don't, we'll have to just take them on again. And we don't want to do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: How dangerous is rhetoric like that in reality?
TRIBE: Incredibly dangerous. It's not just rhetoric. When he says we've tamed the media, what he's really saying is that we call them the enemy of the people, and then we threaten to crush them financially and otherwise.
And especially when media outlets are owned by very wealthy corporations or individuals who have a multitude of interests. Jeff Bezos owning all kinds of things, in addition to "The Washington Post".
BURNETT: Yeah.
TRIBE: Examples of that kind. When that happens, then people who want to, you know, go along with those in power are tempted to squelch the media outlets and freedom of the press is undermined.
[19:40:06]
And that's essential to democracy.
BURNETT: So, Professor --
(CROSSTALK)
TRIBE: -- Autocracy and autocrats this way.
BURNETT: I just wanted to ask you about the ABC case specifically because they settled that defamation case. They're donating $15 million to his presidential campaign and paying his legal fees for another million dollars. So, $16 million, also a public apology coming from ABC.
I'm curious, Professor Tribe, what you think the significance of that precedent is that ABC chose to do that?
TRIBE: Well, it was the case that ABC was destined to win because the only thing that Trump could say is that George Stephanopoulos used the word rape somewhat loosely. He used it the same way the judge who had presided over E. Jean Carroll lawsuit used it. The technical definition of rape is not what was at issue. What was at issue is whether there was deliberate falsehood on the
part of ABC and George Stephanopoulos, and they were not able to prove that in any way, shape or form. They couldn't even prove the damages. What kind of damage to his reputation? Given everything that he bragged about, about what he does to women, there was no damage to his reputation.
So it was a weak lawsuit. He was destined to lose it, but rather than basically be on the wrong side of Donald Trump, Disney, the company that owned ABC, obviously put pressure on ABC to cave, and that sets a terrible precedent, because it means that whenever a media outlet is part of a conglomerate, the business interests of the owner can induce that media outlet to silence itself, and when that happens, those who would criticize the leader of government, those who would criticize the president or the government --
BURNETT: Yeah.
TRIBE: -- are basically chilled. And that is the beginning of the end of democracy.
BURNETT: Professor Tribe, I appreciate your time, as always. Thank you, sir.
TRIBE: Thanks, Erin.
BURNETT: And next, a top Canadian official tonight taking a page from Trump warning that Americans will feel pain if Trump follows through on his campaign promises. So is Canada really going to do it? Will they really take on Trump? He's my guest.
Plus, new details this hour regarding what authorities are calling their top priority when it comes to the deadly school shooting in Madison, Wisconsin.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:46:43]
BURNETT: Tonight, Donald Trump throwing Canada into chaos, after calling Canada a state and calling its prime minister, Governor Justin Trudeau.
It comes as Trump's nemesis in Canada, the country's deputy prime minister, Chrystia Freeland, who's also its finance minister, is gone. She abruptly resigned after clashing with Prime Minister Trudeau, saying he is not doing enough to stand up to Trump and Trump's threat of 25 percent tariffs on every single good that comes into the United States from Canada. Trump calls her toxic.
But there is another top Canadian official now taking Trump on tonight. Ontario Premier Doug Ford, he is calling for his country to use every tool in our toolbox, a direct quote, including cutting off Canadian energy to the United States if Trump follows through with his threat warning, quote, the Americans are going to feel the pain as well. Premier Ford is OUTFRONT with me tonight.
And, Premier, I appreciate your time and I want to just start here with your proposal itself. What exactly does cutting off Canadian energy to the United States look like?
DOUG FORD, PREMIER OF ONTARIO, CANADA: Well, first of all, Erin, thanks for having me on.
You know, that's the last thing I want to do. I want to sell more electricity, more power to our U.S. friends and closest allies in the world. But that's a tool that we have in our toolbox. We power over 1.5 million homes, and in Michigan and companies in Michigan and New York state and Wisconsin.
That's the last thing I want to do. I want to sell more energy to the U.S. I want to sell more critical minerals to the U.S.
Again, we are the closest trading partner, closest allies. We do $1.3 trillion of two way trade. That's more than Japan, China, UK and France combined.
I just feel we aren't the enemy. The big problem, in my opinion, is China. Cheap Chinese products going through Mexico. They're slapping a made in Mexico sticker on shipping it up through the U.S. and Canada, and costing American and Canadian jobs.
BURNETT: So, you know, when you talk about that, Americans will feel the pain if you have to go through with this. You know, you specifically threatened to turn off the lights to a million and a half Americans. And I say that just because if you're specifically talking about electricity coming into the U.S. from Canada, that only makes up about 1 percent of annual U.S. electricity consumption. That's according to the EIA here in the U.S.
But, Premier, when it comes to crude oil, if you go bigger, you're looking at Canadian exports to the U.S. you know, 60 percent of Americas total oil imports come from Canada.
So do you want to go bigger in this? You know, if these tariffs are going to go through. Will you -- should you reciprocate with tariffs not just on electricity but on crude oil itself?
FORD: Well, we shipped down 4.3 million barrels every single day. If there was a tariff on that, that would increase gas by a dollar a gallon. That wouldn't go over very well.
And, you know, both sides of the border are going to feel the pain. We rely on each other. Ontario is a big auto province. And I just -- I want to work with the U.S. I love the American people. I spent 20 years of my life there in Chicago and our Chicago facility in New Jersey.
I love Americans.
[19:50:01] I love the U.S., and we're so much stronger together. Let's build for American and let's onshore these products from China and create more American and Canadian jobs.
BURNETT: So can I just ask you, taking a step back, and I know some of the stuff Trump had posted, you know, he referred again to Canada as a state. He referred again to Prime Minister Trudeau as a governor. It's not the first time he had posted that AI generated image of himself standing next to the Canadian flag with the caption, oh Canada.
And that was after Prime Minister Trudeau flew down to Mar-a-Lago unannounced to meet with Trump about his tariff threat. Where, you know, Trump joked that Canada could become the 51st state.
So can we just take a step back? I know in some of this he's sort of making a joke, but he's doing it again and again and again and obviously, you know, it is demeaning. I mean, how do you respond to that that he keeps referring to Canada as a state and the leader of your country as a governor?
FORD: Well, it's up to premiers like myself, which is equivalent to governors down -- down in the U.S. Its our job to go down and inform Americans. We have a large ad campaign going on in the U.S. to inform them that we are their number one trading partner, number one ally in the entire world. The supply chains are so integrated.
We're so much stronger together. The only people that win, Erin, is China. And Americans lose. Canadians lose. And that's the problem that Mexico has to make a decision.
You're either with Beijing or you're with Washington. I'll tell you what Canadians are with, they're with Washington.
BURNETT: So do you take Trump seriously when he mocks Canada, or do you think that that's just, you know, his negotiating tactic?
FORD: You know, he has a sense of humor, but I'm more concerned about the trade making sure that we secure trade on both sides of the border.
And this is pretty simple. The president has asked to secure our border. I agree with him 1,000 percent. We need to secure our border. We're going to secure our border. We have to meet our 2 percent commitment to NATO. And we're going to do both.
So those are two asks that were going to get done. I've been saying it well before President Trump was elected, that we have to meet the 2 percent. We have to secure our borders, and then we move forward and sit down and have a discussion. I'd love to sit down with the president, businessman to businessman and have a conversation with them, because we are so much stronger together.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Premier Ford, I appreciate your time tonight and thank you.
FORD: Thank you. Thank you so much. BURNETT: And next, the breaking news. We are just getting in a new image of the female shooter who opened fire at her school in Wisconsin. We've got that, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:57:11]
BURNETT: Breaking news a new photo just in to CNN of the Wisconsin school shooter at a shooting range. And that is this past summer. And you can see the alleged shooter there that Facebook was posted on Facebook by her father. The t-shirt that she is wearing there features the name of a German rock band whose lyrics were also cited by the Columbine gunman.
It comes as police are investigating if bullying was a factor in the deadly shooting.
Natasha Chen is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tonight, police in Madison, Wisconsin, are urgently searching for what led a 15-year- old girl to bring a nine millimeter handgun to school and opened fire. Investigators say Natalie Rupnow, who went by Samantha, arrived at the Abundant Life Christian School Monday morning and killed a teacher and fellow student and wounded six others before taking her own life.
CHIEF SHON BARNES, MADISON, WISCONSIN POLICE: The past 24 hours have been a flurry of emotion, sadness, anger, disappointment. Grief.
CHEN: Grief as they try to understand why a festive day with students dressed in their holiday pajamas ended with them evacuating a shooting scene.
Police Chief Shon Barnes says the motive was a combination of factors, and they are looking into everything from possible bullying to her online activity, adding everyone at the school was targeted equally in the shooting. As for writings related to the shooting that have been circulating online --
BARNES: At this time, we cannot verify the document. We ask that you not share the document or spread any information that may be false.
CHEN: But police are looking for original documents that may have been taken from the shooters home and speaking to her parents, who they say are cooperative to determine whether they owned or possessed the gun their daughter allegedly used.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think law enforcement will take the steps necessary, but we don't know nearly enough yet.
CHEN: Not enough to know whether the parents will face criminal charges. While the police chief says they will look into whether the parents were negligent, he says that does not appear to be the case right now. Two of the shooting victims remain in critical condition, with life threatening injuries, and police are asking members of the community to respect the privacy of the student and teacher who were killed.
REBEKAH SMITH, CHILDREN ATTEND ABUNDANT LIFE CHRISTIAN SCHOOL: That particular teacher, she would have done anything for those kids. She would have been right there. Loved the school. Loved her kids. Loved teaching.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Beautiful lights.
SMITH: Yeah.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That they were beautiful souls.
CHEN: It was at least the 83rd school shooting in the U.S. this year, more than any other year since CNN started tracking school shootings in 2008.
MELISSA AGARD, DANE COUNTY, WISCONSIN EXECUTIVIE: There's going to be public debate about the motives and other aspects of this mass shooting. But let us remember this fact. Gun violence is the number one killer of children in this country. That's a legacy we cannot accept.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHEN (on camera): Erin, you referenced a photo where the shooter seems to be wearing a shirt with the German rock band KMFDM, whose lyrics were also cited by the Columbine school shooter. At the time of the Columbine shooting, "Reuters" reported that the band issued a statement of sympathy for the Columbine victims and said their lyrics are actually meant to stand against violence.
Now, in this Facebook post that seems to be from the shooters father, someone seems to be commenting, is that your child? And he says, sure is. And that they've been enjoying that shooting range that they joined, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Natasha, thank you very much. And for that new image, and thanks so much, as always to all of you.
Anderson starts now.
