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Erin Burnett Outfront

At Least 18 Injured After Delta Plane Make Crash Landing; After 498 Days, Israeli-American Hostage Reunites With Family; Students Fear Trump Will Deport Them Over Pro-Palestinian Protests. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired February 17, 2025 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:51]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:

Breaking news, new details just coming in about the plane crash in Toronto. At least 18 people injured, including a child, after a Delta flight flipped over and caught fire on the runway. What happened?

I'll speak to a passenger who was on board.

And we'll take you inside a flight simulator to show you what it looks like to land a plane in the dead of winter, snow blanketing the air. Massive wind gusts. Just how difficult it is to land in those conditions.

Plus, an Israeli-American hostage held in Gaza for nearly 500 days finally free. An emotional reunion with his family and meeting his baby daughter for the first time. His father joins us.

Let's go OUTFRONT.

Good evening. I'm Brianna Keilar, in for Erin Burnett.

OUTFRONT tonight, breaking news. A packed passenger plane crashes and flips upside down, and we are waiting for a news conference from officials any moment now, which we'll bring to you live as soon as it happens.

But I do want to show you the moment that one passenger recorded as he was getting off of that upside down plane.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Drop it. Come on. Don't take no video. Just throw it away. Go, go!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Holy (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Holy (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Holy (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Oh (EXPLETIVE DELETED) my God!

Yo! I was just on this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) plane.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: I'll be speaking with that passenger who recorded that video here in a moment.

And this incredible video, also filmed by a passenger just moments after the crash. You can see the body of the plane there, the wings ripped off of the fuselage. There were 80 people on board, and at least 18 were injured. Two of these injuries are critical.

We have now learned the Delta Airlines flight from Minneapolis arrived at Toronto's Pearson airport at 2:13 p.m. and listened to the first moments after air traffic controllers and other pilots nearby saw the crash.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

OTHER PILOT: Airplane just crashed runway 2-3.

TOWER: It's on runway 2-3, right at threshold, right at the intersection there, 2-3 and 15 left.

MEDEVAC PILOT: Okay. We got it in sight. Can you tell us what type of aircraft it was?

TOWER: Yeah, it was an RJ-9.

MEDEVAC PILOT: Roger.

PILOT: The aircraft is upside down and burning.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KEILAR: We know that strong winds have been impacting the airport all day. And all of this, of course, is on the heels of that deadly crash in Washington, D.C., just three weeks ago.

Pete Muntean is OUTFRONT.

Pete, what is the latest that you're learning about what happened here?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: We're learning this was a harrowing but very textbook response that led to this very good outcome, not only by the pilots, but also the cabin crew, the flight attendants, even the passengers who got out of this plane and evacuated so quickly because we so easily could be telling a very different story right now. Only 19 days ago that we were covering the completely fatal crash of that American Airlines flight and military helicopter over the Potomac river here in Washington, D.C., all 67 people killed.

What we know here is that Delta Flight 4819 was coming in to Toronto Pearson international airport, about 2:13 Eastern Standard Time was on what appeared, according to the flight tracking data, to be a relatively stable approach, meaning that the plane was descending at a normal rate, was coming in, lined up with the runway, and then apparently this plane crashed at low altitude.

That is not exactly clear what caused this plane to roll onto its back, and then led to a very big evacuation of this completely full flight there on to the runway at Toronto Pearson international airport.

I want to show you the video one more time from the passengers' perspective as they evacuated this plane, the overhead bins. Now the floor as they got out through the mid fuselage exit the over-wing emergency exit. We also saw passengers getting out of the R1 door, which is typically a cabin service door that is used by cabin crews to refill drinks and the like.

[19:05:05]

That's not something that people typically go through.

People made it out very quickly, and that is so key because these things can turn bad very fast. We saw the black smoke rising from this crash, indicative of the big fire and the airport fire and rescue crews responded, apparently within seconds, to put out that fire that appeared to be coming from the center of the fuselage where the wings once were and where the fuel tanks are held.

Of course, the investigation will be very thorough, being led by Canada's Transportation Safety Board, being aided by the National Transportation Safety Board here in the United States and the Federal Aviation Administration, because this was a U.S.-based flight.

The big question now is the environment. The winds were howling at the time, gusting to about 40 miles per hour at a pretty biting crosswind, about 40 degrees of crosswind to the heading of the airplane coming in to land.

Also, investigators will question the condition of the runway. Was it icy? Was it snowy? We saw the blowing snow and it had snowed overnight at Toronto.

So a lot of big questions here as this investigation is only in the very beginning stages. Investigators would caution not to speculate just yet. We don't have all that much information.

KEILAR: All right. Pete Muntean, thank you so much. We know that you're following this as you have for hours now.

I do want to go to Pete Koukov. He was a passenger on that plane. He shot this dramatic video as he and other passengers were being evacuated from the plane. This video right here that you've been seeing.

And he's with us now on the phone.

Pete, first off, just tell us when you first realized that something was the matter here.

PETE KOUKOV, SURVIVED DELTA PLANE CRASH IN TORONTO (via telephone): We didn't really know anything was the matter. Or at least I didn't until, like, the second we hit the ground. Um, there was no, like, real indication of anything. And then, yeah, we hit the ground and we were sideways, and then we were upside down hanging like bats.

KEILAR: Was it a hard landing?

KOUKOV: Yeah, it was pretty hard.

KEILAR: And so you turned over very quickly and said you were hanging upside down. Tell us a little bit about that and what that process was like, how quickly you were able to free yourself and how difficult that was.

KOUKOV: Yeah. So it all happened pretty, pretty fast. And we -- we stopped. The plane was upside down, obviously, and I was able to kind of just unbuckle and sort of like fall and push myself to the ground.

And then and then -- yeah. And then some people were kind of hanging and needed some help being helped down and others, others were able to get down on their own. And then, yeah, we kind of all -- all got off the plane and everyone was, for the most part, fine.

KEILAR: Can you tell us about the evacuation?

KOUKOV: Yeah. So, I mean, no one was seriously injured around me at least. And we all kind of just moved -- moved off the plane. Sorry. I'm being, like, moved into another room right now, but --

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: No, Pete, I understand. Can you tell us where you are and what the process has been like since you've -- since you left the runway?

KOUKOV: Yeah. Right now, we're at a hotel, and we are -- I just we're seeing our family and friends who are here to pick us up, and we are kind of just finishing, hopefully, the final process. And id hope that I can get my bag soon if they're okay.

But, yeah, right now were kind of just been waiting. It's sort of just been kind of a waiting game. So until we hear, hear more.

KEILAR: Pete, it's really amazing that you're okay. And we understand there are a couple people critically injured and some others. I'm sure you may be aware of that now. What are you thinking? Having survived this?

KOUKOV: Just feeling lucky and happy I got to give the person I didn't know sitting next to me a big hug, that we were okay. And see my friends who were here to pick me up from the airport and give them a big hug. And, yeah, get home. Who knows when, but get home and give my family a big hug.

KEILAR: Yeah. Pete, I can't even imagine those are going to be some big hugs.

Pete, thank you so much for being with us. Really appreciate it. So glad that you are with us and that you survived this.

KOUKOV: Yeah. Thanks again.

KEILAR: Thank you.

Let's go straight now to Toronto, where this press conference has begun as -- has begun as officials are updating us on this crash.

DEBOORAH FLINT, TORONTO PEARSON PRESIDENT AND CEO: We stood up our emergency operations center with Delta Airlines and representatives from fire, police, paramedics, security and our federal agency partners. Again, there were no fatalities. Seventeen injured passengers were quickly taken to local area hospitals. At this time, we do not know if any of those passengers having critical injuries.

[19:10:04]

We immediately halted further arrivals and departures on our remaining three runways. Those runways were reopened at approximately 5:00 p.m. the other runways are remaining to serve the investigation, which will be carrying forward for the rest of tonight and into the next several days. These two runways will remain closed while our investigation or while the investigation takes place.

Again, we are very grateful that there was no loss of life and relatively minor injuries. We are very focused on the care and the concern and the passengers and the crew, some of whom have already been reunified with their friends and their families, others we have in a comfortable place right here at the airport, in an environment where they're getting a lot of care and support from my staff.

Delta Airlines is also continuing to provide customer care and information for passengers.

In closing, no airport CEO wants to have these type of press conferences. But this is exactly what our emergency, our operations and our federal our -- our first responder partners are all practiced and trained for. And again, this outcome is in due part to their heroic work. And I thank them profusely.

Our thoughts and prayers are with all. We will be providing more information as it becomes available. We do expect that there will be some operational impact and some delays at the airport over the next few days, while the two runways remain closed for the investigation. And we will be sharing information periodically, for those traveling, continue to look at our website and be in touch with your respective carrier as well.

Thank you for your time today.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Deborah.

We're going to continue posting Toronto Pearson updates, operational updates on our X account, so be sure to follow us there. Thank you all for joining us.

KEILAR: All right. That was the press conference there at Toronto Airport. We have Mary Schiavo, former inspector general at the U.S. Department

of Transportation. And David Soucie is a former FAA safety inspector with us.

I do want to draw our attention to the fact, Mary, and correct me if I'm wrong here, because we were just catching some of the details there at the top. It sounds like they're saying there were no critical injuries. We had believed that there were in this case earlier, but its sounding better than we could have hoped. It sounds like.

What do you think?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Yeah, that's what it sounds like. I mean, the earlier reports that we had gotten that that there were, I think, 18 injuries and several critical, including a child who was the worst injured. But this is certainly good news.

I mean, I worry very much about the children because small people can slide out of that safety belt. And of course, we don't know if this was a lap baby, a child under two that was being held in the arms of a -- of a parent or caregiver. So this is indeed good news. And, and the passenger that we just heard from also gave some, some very useful news about how the plane actually landed and that it flipped immediately. So the crosswind is looking more and more suspect. Very interesting news coming out.

KEILAR: Really interesting. We'll talk about that crosswind in a second.

But, David, I do want to talk to you about something that Pete -- Pete Koukov, who we just had on. He was a passenger who survived this. He's the one who took the video you've seen of passengers evacuating the plane, where they go from the inside, crawling over the overhead bin space to get out. This is his video.

He said everything seemed normal until they landed. He said it was a hard landing. He said, all of a sudden, they were on their side and then they were upside down, hanging like bats.

What did you think of what you heard from him about how quickly this went down?

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: Well, as Mary said, there's a lot of clues in what Pete had to say. One of the things that I extracted from it is because its normal. They're saying its normal. If you're coming in a crosswind, it's not comfortable for you. You know that there's something going on and especially with these gusts that we were alluding to earlier as contributory.

But what struck out to me from what he said is that the landing was very hard. It was extremely hard landing. And in looking at the aircraft that aligns in my thoughts, again, if this was a hard landing, it aligns with the fact that the smoke started at the time of the impact.

Now, was that from the aircraft then hitting a wingtip and rolling over too early to tell. I we can't say whether it was from that or whether it wasn't. But the first thing as an investigator that I would look at is the physical inspection of that fuselage, because if it's a hard landing, you there will be evidence of that. You'll see that crash in the tail, the crunch zone in the tail.

You could also see if it was hard enough. The angle of the engines would be brought down as well because of the hard landing.

[19:15:01]

And then you could look in the structure of the fuselage as well, to see if there was anything broken in that fuselage.

So that would be my first thing I would look at is take that physical inspection and see what happened to the fuselage. And that's going to give you the best clues as to how this actually occurred.

KEILAR: Can -- can -- Mary, I mean is it -- can a gust of wind do that? Is that something that a pilot controls for or that can get out of control like that?

SCHIAVO: Well, yes, it can, particularly if you have a landing that is -- isn't under complete control of the pilot. It doesn't sound like it was a stabilized landing at the very last minute.

Now, he said it was normal until then, but with those kinds of winds, it would have been very bumpy. But if you came in for a hard landing, say you, you crunched the landing gear and you get a gust, you would not have a stabilized landing and you could very easily flip.

And we have seen that in other accidents where there's been additional problems where you cannot bring it in with a controlled landing, you're not straight and level, you have other issues. And there was an accident like this in London.

Oh, boy. About ten, 15 years ago at London city airport and literally the British airways plane came in and just collapsed the landing gear. There was smoke, but no fire. A lot of hydraulic fluid.

But yes, you can do that on a bad landing. And add to that a crosswind and you could flip.

KEILAR: And, David, I do want to look at the video from moments after the crash, which is -- it's quite amazing. And this came out just really not that long after the crash, someone who had managed to survive and escape and took this video.

You see the plane obviously upside down, and we know that people were hanging upside down and had to free themselves. There are a lot of risks in having to get yourself from that position to the right side up position, where you're now standing on the ceiling.

Can you talk about that a little bit?

SOUCIE: Yeah, it's with the Airbus 380. I was part of the evacuation testing over in Toulouse, France, for that aircraft. And that's a much larger aircraft, a lot more people. But at the same time, it's the same process. It's far 28, 25, 803 that you use to say you have to be able to evacuate that aircraft in 90s with some doors blocked.

Now, we also did an inverted escapes as well. It's not in the regs to do inverted escapes, but it is extremely scary. I actually sat in one of the seats upside down, at the Atlantic, Atlantic City FAA center and tried to do that. And it takes a lot of guts to decide to unbuckle yourself and drop that six feet to the ground without grabbing.

And what I did is I grabbed the handles next to me when I released it. And the handles were those type that just came up. So it just basically dropped me right on my head. So it's extremely difficult and scary to do that. So, I can't imagine what they've had to go through to get out of that airplane. It was probably very scary for them.

KEILAR: Yeah, and they had to get out so fast. And they did. Congratulations to all of them for doing that. Unbelievable.

Mary, David, thank you so much to both of you. Really appreciate it.

And OUTFRONT next, we do have more on this breaking news. We'll take you inside a flight simulator to show you a pilot's point of view. Landing a plane with those 40 mile per hour gusts of winds and blankets of snow. What went wrong here?

Plus, another passenger who is on the flight will join us next.

And homecoming. Israeli-American Sagui Dekel-Chen released from Hamas captivity after nearly 500 days. That's the moment there. His father is OUTFRONT to tell us about this emotional reunion.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:22:37]

KEILAR: We have breaking news. New details on the shocking upside down plane crash in Toronto airport. Airport officials just announcing at a press conference no one was critically injured, which is a little different from what we heard before. And that is improved news. All 80 people on board survived.

Let's go right now to John Nelson. He was a passenger on the plane.

John, thank you so much for being with us. We're so glad you're okay. I mean, who would have known that you were in a plane crash a few hours ago? It's unbelievable.

You have video that you recorded? We've been watching. Tell us when you first realized something was the matter.

JOHN NELSON, SURVIVED DELTA PLANE CRASH IN TORONTO: Yeah, it was a typical flight from Minneapolis to Toronto. And we were coming in, and I did notice that, like, uh, the winds were super gusty. The snow had kind of blown over the, the runways. And so coming in, it just, um, it was routine, but like, it was noticeable that the runways were kind of in a weird condition. And when we hit, it was just a super hard, like, hit the ground. And

the plane went sideways. And I believe we skidded, like, on our side and then flipped over on our back where we ended up there was like a big fireball out this left side of the plane.

And when we got finished, it was, I was upside down. Everybody else was there as well. Thankfully, everybody was okay. Uh, but we tried to get out of there as quickly as possible. And then shortly thereafter, I got done filming the video. There was another explosion, but luckily the firefighters got out of there.

KEILAR: They were there quickly. It sounds like.

NELSON: Yeah.

KEILAR: So where were you seated in the plane?

NELSON: I was in, like, row ten of the plane, so just front of the wing.

KEILAR: And did you see the wing come off?

NELSON: No. By that point, we were being tossed around. I was just trying to hold on to everything at that point.

KEILAR: And how did you. How did you get yourself out of your seatbelt? And did everyone stay in their seatbelts that you could tell? Was everyone hanging upside down? Had anyone slipped out of their seatbelts?

NELSON: Yeah. I mean, it was mass chaos. I was upside down. The lady next to me was upside down.

[19:25:00]

We kind of let ourselves go and fell to hit the ceiling, which is surreal feeling. And then everybody was just like, get out, get out, get out. We could smell like jet fuel.

Even now, I smell like jet fuel. And then we just crawled out the back of the airplane. The firefighters, the EMTs were there right away.

KEILAR: Was anyone injured? I mean, what did you see? We know there were some injuries. What was it like?

NELSON: Chaos. There was injuries. There was hurt individuals. Yeah. I mean, it's just all the emotional roller coaster that you go through, but things you hope you don't see again, right?

KEILAR: How -- how -- how are you feeling?

NELSON: Stressed. Nervous. Shaky. Still. (AUDIO GAP) don't know.

KEILAR: Sorry, John. You cut out for just a second. I was asking how you felt, and you said that you. You're feeling really shaky, and we can pick that up from you. You must be very. Yeah. Very, very stressed from this.

NELSON: Yeah. A lot of stress. It's amazing that we're still here.

KEILAR: Yeah.

NELSON: Hope to not do that again.

KEILAR: And it really is amazing. And that's what experts have been telling us. When -- when you landed with the hard landing and went to the side, and then the plane was on, was upside down. Did that all happen very quickly? And what did that physically feel like for you as you were being tossed around?

NELSON: Yeah, I mean, it's -- it's, you know, it happens so quickly, right? You hit there's this like giant, like pop crack, you know, its this like super loud bang kind of thing happens. And then everything just goes literally sideways.

And it happens so fast, that I just remember, like, kind of pulling myself in and trying not to hit my head against anything. And, luckily, our flight attendants and everything were helpful for us. So they are signaling me that I do need to move on.

But, is there anything else?

KEILAR: Just really quickly, do you know why the plane flipped? Do you know if did it feel like it dipped one way or the other with the wing?

NELSON: I think it -- I don't know. I'm no expert on that one. I will let them figure it out. It feels like snow, wind, hard landing all of it together.

KEILAR: And have you talked to your family, or are you going to see them?

NELSON: I am. I'll see them, hopefully tomorrow.

KEILAR: Oh, John, that's not soon enough. But I'm so glad you're going to see them. I'm so glad that you're with us.

NELSON: Thank you.

KEILAR: And thank you so much for joining us tonight. We appreciate it.

NELSON: Thank you.

KEILAR: Thank you.

I do want to bring in now Aaron Murphy. He's a commercial pilot, a flight instructor. He's with us tonight from inside of a flight simulator.

Aaron, I don't know if you were able to hear some of what John was saying there in that interview. Were you able to hear that? AARON MURPHY, CANADIAN COMMERCIAL PILOT AND FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR: I

heard John's words loud and clear. And there is there's nothing quite as harrowing as listening to someone's first account of a situation such as this, where you've walked away from something that you were probably sure it was the end. And I'm so happy that so many people walked away from this one. Absolutely.

KEILAR: Yeah, it's -- it's unbelievable. And I know you say that this was a completely routine flight until the very final seconds before landing. It seems like that's what we've heard.

Maybe kind of gusty. We heard that from John. Another passenger said he felt like it was very normal. Can you talk to us, though? About what wind conditions were like and what pilots would have been dealing with as they were landing here?

MURPHY: Absolutely. Brianna, cut me off if you need to. I tend to drone on a little bit about these things.

This is an environmental factors accident today, which will also have layers of human factors and procedure and training. Every single accident has those three things in them. Always, very demanding, very challenging conditions.

Today at the Pearson airport, we had winds from the -- the numbers that I saw around the time of the arrival, 270 at 25, gusting to 40 to 35. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few gusts that that got in there over 45, maybe even 50 knots just at the time when the RJ was touching down, which would be that very critical moment in the in the phase of flight for sure.

KEILAR: And so the snow component with the snow over the runways, and it was even visible to passengers. What kind of difficulty does that pose?

[19:30:01]

MURPHY: The Pearson equipment, the snow removal equipment at Pearson would have been out probably for four days straight because we've had something like, I think we've had 25 to 30 inches or more of snow. That doesn't sound like a lot of snow for a lot of people. You know, in other places in North America.

But, those equipment operators would have been going around and around the runways trying to make those runways as safe as possible. And I would expect that in the very last seconds of landing, there could have been a strong gust which would have brought quite a bit of blowing snow across the runway, possibly limiting the pilots view of the runway while they were landing in the very final seconds of touchdown, maybe the last 20 or even 10 seconds. So, environmental factors are playing a large role in this one for sure.

KEILAR: Yeah. And their reports to investigators will be critical to see certainly what they experienced.

Aaron Murphy, thank you so much. We really appreciate your insights. MURPHY: Thank you for having me. And I'm glad everybody's okay.

KEILAR: We are all so, so glad.

And OUTFRONT next, we have more on our breaking news. How does a plan -- a plane end up landing and flipping over? I'll ask a former air traffic controller.

I also speak with the father of Sagui Dekel-Chen, who is held hostage in Gaza for nearly 500 days without sunlight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:35:18]

KEILAR: We are following some breaking news. A Delta plane crashing and flipping upside down at Toronto's Pearson International Airport. Eighty people on board, at least 17 injured. All surviving, though.

And this is the conversation between the pilot and air traffic control just two minutes before this crash.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

TOWER: Endeavor 4819, Toronto tower, wind 270 at 23, gusts 33. Cleared to land Runway 23. Might get a slight bump in the glide path, there will be an aircraft in front of you.

PILOT: Cleared to land (Runway) 23. Endeavor 4819.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KEILAR: OUTFRONT Now, Jim Krieger, who's a former air traffic controller, he worked at one of the busiest airports in the country, Chicago's O'Hare Airport, for 33 years.

Jim, what stands out to you from that conversation?

JIM KRIEGER, FORMER AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER: No, not a whole lot, actually. It sounded pretty routine as far as I'm concerned. The aircraft was cleared to land. The wind was given to them, especially the gust factors.

The only question I would have, I guess, when this isn't putting blame on anybody, but, what was the braking action on the runway? You know, the runway looked like it had a lot of snow on it. And, it's helpful to pilots, let them know what the -- what the braking action is doing, in other words, what they can expect if they hit the brakes, when they --when they touch down on the runway. It's just helpful information to them.

KEILAR: What would that have sounded like?

KRIEGER: Well, it would be in terms of, they've changed it over the years, but it would be in terms of, generally speaking, good braking action or fair braking action or, the worst case poor or nil -- nil means no, no braking action at all. Very bad.

Once you get a really bad braking action report like that, it's generally accepted in the industry that you're going to stop using that runway pretty darn quick. But we rely on pilots usually to give us that information. If they use the brakes, you don't have reversers on the aircraft, so they're not typically always using the brakes, at least not very heavily. And they'll let us know. They'll say, hey, you know, braking action is, is fair or whatever. And we keep an eye on it at that point.

Now, maybe, maybe there were no cause for braking action reports. But like I said, it seemed like there was a lot of snow on the runway.

KEILAR: So, Jim, you were an air traffic controller for 33 years. Have you ever seen anything like this?

KRIEGER: No, I've never seen anything like this. I've seen a gear collapse before, things of that nature. Aircraft leaving the runway on occasion, that's obviously pretty rare, but it can be -- it can be deadly when it happens.

Normally, though, every runway has got what they call a runway safety area around it. In this case, it's a -- it's a 500 feet wide or 250 feet on each side of the center line. And it's a very smooth area. There's no obstructions in it, nothing that it wouldn't be, frangible as far as if anything hit it, especially an aircraft. It would give way right away.

So that safety area is usually fairly pristine. Obviously, in this case, it's going to have some snow in it. But, yeah, it's -- it's pretty rare for aircraft to leave the pavement. And it's even more rare to see something like this.

KEILAR: Yeah. Unbelievable. And thank goodness they're all alive.

Jim Krieger, thank you. We appreciate you.

KRIEGER: You're welcome. Thank you for having me.

KEILAR: And OUTFRONT next, a miracle. Jonathan Dekel-Chen, who you have seen many times on this show, finally reunited with his son Sagui, who was held captive by Hamas for nearly 500 days. Jonathan is OUTFRONT.

And as the Trump administration cracks down on student protests, some students fear they could soon be deported.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:43:15]

KEILAR: Tonight, 498 days in captivity. That is how long American- Israeli citizen Sagui Dekel-Chen was held by Hamas before being released this weekend. Sagui, whose father Jonathan has been our guest on OUTFRONT many times, keeping his son's story public, was injured in the October 7th attack and taken into Gaza. That's where he was held the last 16 months, not knowing if his pregnant wife and his young daughters were even alive. Sagui only learned of his family's fate right before his release.

Here's part of the moment that he was reunited with them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AVITAL: You're my champion. You're a champion. You're a champion.

SAGUI: You are heroes. How you watched over me.

JONATHAN: Welcome back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Sagui also met his daughter Shahar, who was born while he was in captivity.

And OUTFRONT now is Jonathan Dekel-Chen, the father of Sagui.

Jonathan, it is -- it is amazing to see you all reunited. Tell us what that moment was like.

JONATHAN DEKEL-CHEN, FATHER OF ISRAELI-AMERICAN RELEASED BY HAMAS: And I'd like to use words to describe it, but I really can't. There -- I don't know of any word in English or in a bunch of other languages for that matter, that really can describe that feeling. It's a combination of so many things.

I think that, that hug that you just saw, it says it all far better than I can express in words.

[19:45:06]

And, you know, Sagui and Avital have been the loves of each other's lives since they set eyes on each other at age 16 and 14. You know, it is simply a miracle. And, Sagui did not know, as you said, if any of the family had survived the massacre. Hamas's massacre on kibbutz Nir Oz on October 7th, 2023.

And we didn't really know if Sagui -- what his condition was. And at any given moment, whether he was alive. And Hamas has never allowed Red Cross visits to any of the hostages. So really, it's -- it's -- we understood the day before yesterday in our first conversation with Sagui, a couple of minutes after that little piece that you showed that we all survived by virtue of love and a kind of mystic optimism, and that that brought us to that wonderful, wonderful moment on Saturday.

KEILAR: He called you his heroes for keeping his story out there. And you did. You spent so much time putting his story out there.

Tell us a little bit, if you would, about his not knowing until just before being released that his wife had survived, that he was going to meet a daughter who he had not met and who he has missed a lot of time with, and that he would see his other kids. DEKEL-CHEN: Well, it turns out and again, this is I'm not a person of

faith, and I don't believe in mysticism, but there was something mystic going on here because both for Sagui and his wife and they carried on their relationship for 498 days in their dream world, both of them in parallel.

And keep in mind that, you know, for most of that time they were very close geographically. Sagui in hellhole Hamas tunnels, and Avital, a free woman raising three little daughters. They came together every night in their dreams. And, in fact, there's now a very popular song in Israel that was the lyrics, were, in fact, written by Avital about, that that alternate universe that she lives in where Sagui is with her every night.

And Sagui, we learned on Saturday, it was exactly the same. And they -- they spent this time together. And the power of that, kept obviously Avital going, but it -- that was the engine for his survival.

KEILAR: Jonathan. That's amazing. Amazing that they held a vigil for each other each night, that kept them going through this.

Sagui, we should note he was injured on October 7th. Can you tell us? I know he -- he received very rudimentary care in Gaza. Can you tell us how he's doing now and what the road is like for him ahead?

DEKEL-CHEN: Yes. We don't know exactly what the road is going to look like, but, you know, there are two sets of physical issues here. Yes. He was wounded on October 7th, and we've -- we've known that. And he sustained serious injuries in his shoulder and in his leg.

He -- he the medical people in Gaza, did, in fact, in a strange manner of speaking, saved his life. But the surgeries that he received or the procedures were totally inadequate. And so and beyond the initial surgery and he, for all intents and purposes, received no medical care.

And so there's a lot of repair that needs to be done in those two areas of his body. But beyond that, and this is true of all of the hostages who have been released from the tunnels, and, you know, the human body can only take so much during the course of 500 days of first and foremost, living under the risk of death every second from Hamas captors and also from the ongoing war, uh, that is taking place right above their heads.

But added to that, you had, of course, the lack of nutrition, a complete lack of medical care, sanitation that I suggest no one tried to -- to imagine. And so, and no sunlight whatsoever for 498 days.

So there's a whole other layer of recovery. That is true for Sagui and anyone else who's being released from -- from the Hamas terror tunnels.

[19:50:08]

KEILAR: And, I do want to play the moment we talked about how Sagui didn't know his family was alive, that they were okay until two days before his release. I want to play the moment when Avital tells him that his daughter is named Shahar. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AVITAL: Do you remember what you called her?

SAGUI: Mazal?

AVITAL: So that's what she's called.

SAGUI: Mazal?

AVITAL: Her name is Shahar Mazal.

SAGUI: Perfect. Perfect.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: What a sweet moment, Jonathan. And I'm watching your reaction there as you're watching them.

DEKEL-CHEN: Listen, those are scenes that I will -- stay with me forever, honestly. It's the rebirth of my son, the rebirth of -- of that beautiful family.

And so it is just one of those moments that that makes one even a, you know, a life -- not a lifelong, but an atheist that believe that there must be some higher power out there. And but, you know, we -- we as a family have become whole again. But, in the personal sense, but in the communal sense and in the national sense, there's no real repair, there's no recovery, there's no way forward for us without all of the hostages coming home.

And for the people of Gaza who deserve so much better to end this madness and give them a life and or at least the beginnings of a life, without Hamas holding them captive as well.

KEILAR: Jonathan, it is a beautiful, bright spot in a very dark time that has gone on for so long. And we thank you so much for being with us and sharing it with us.

DEKEL-CHEN: Thank you so much for having me.

KEILAR: Next, foreign students threatened with deportation for protesting on campus.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:55:02]

KEILAR: Tonight, President Trump sparking fear on campus. The president threatening to deport some foreign students and now some of those students are speaking out.

Elle Reeve is OUTFRONT. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELLE REEVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Okay. So I'm just going to jump right into it with this.

To all the resident aliens who joined in the pro-jihadist protests, we put you on notice. Come 2025, we will find you and we will deport you. I will also quickly cancel the student visas of all Hamas sympathizers on college campuses, which have been infested with radicalism like never before.

Do you think he's talking about you?

BIANCA WAKED, PHD CANDIDATE, CORNELL UNIVERSITY: I think he is absolutely and misguidedly talking about me and others. Yeah.

REEVE: President Trump said that in a statement about his executive order to combat antisemitism.

And do you dispute the characterization that these protests were pro- jihadists?

WAKED: Absolutely. I mean, I think that the problem with the protest is that everybody wants to talk about the protest, but nobody wants to actually ask the protesters what the protests were about.

REEVE: Waked is a grad student at Cornell and a Canadian. She's among several international students who participated in pro-Palestinian protests on campus. They say opposition to the war in Gaza has been wrongfully portrayed as antisemitism.

So they fear that the fact that they protested at all is a reason for Trump to target them.

AMANDLA THOMAS-JOHNSON, PHD CANDIDATE, CORNELL UNIVERSITY: I got a text message. I got pictures of black-clad ICE agents in Ithaca, and I got really scared. So I'm there in the class. I had to call someone basically and say to them, can you pick me up? Pull up right outside the exit of the building and I'm going to run inside the car.

REEVE: There was an ICE raid in Ithaca and one person was arrested, a 27 year old Mexican man who pled guilty to third degree assault charges in New York.

MOMODOU TAAL, PHD STUDENT, CORNELL UNIVERSITY: Of course, there's like a fear for many international students right now, but that's the intended effect. With the levels of repression that the universities meted out on their students, it was done in such a way to lull and bring down the protesters. And I think what Trump is trying to do now is a continuation of that kind of policy.

REEVE: Taal first faced the threat of deportation under the Biden administration. Last October, Cornell students protested at campus career fair, where two defense contractors were recruiting. Taal, and the two other students we spoke to were part of that protest. Students pushed through police to enter the fair and banged pots and pans. Cornell has punished several participants.

TAAL: I received an email promptly saying that I have been suspended. And then I was told, effectively, that I would have to leave the country by the end of the week.

REEVE: After a public backlash, Cornell said Taal would be allowed to finish his degree and therefore stay in the U.S., but he was still banned from campus and from teaching his courses. Waked and Thomas- Johnson signed agreements with Cornell and got written reprimands and deferred suspension.

When asked if the school was shutting down debate, a spokesperson referred to a previous statement by Cornell's president saying students were punished because they forced their way past police so they were not peaceful.

Were you officially accused of antisemitism or hate speech?

THOMAS-JOHNSON: Absolutely not. No. I know, of course, that Donald Trump's executive order talks about antisemitism and hate speech. I think this has been a tactic by governments, by universities as well, to try and shut down legitimate debate about what is going on in Palestine.

REEVE: What would you say to moderate liberals who are like, yeah, I think Israel went too far. The war went on too long. But you campus protesters, you did it the wrong way. You were too violent, you were too hateful. You went too far.

TAAL: In this country, we've seen people who wear keffiyehs being shot. We've seen a child being killed in Chicago by his neighbor. So if you want to talk about political violence, where should we point the hands? Are we pointing the hands at people who say chants and slogans and maybe are a bit too loud in places?

REEVE: Is it on you as an activist to try to win over more moderate people so you have a critical mass to demand the government to do what you want?

TAAL: Absolutely. But I think if the images of patients attached to I.V.s burning alive doesn't move people, then I worry.

WAKED: I wouldn't say the protests were successful. People are still dead. Homes have been ravaged. But I will say now I'm watching students that would have otherwise never encountered this conversation before to think and talk about it.

REEVE: So what role do the universities have in potentially cooperating with Trump on this order?

MARY ANNE FRANKS, PROFESSOR, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL: If we're talking about a principled university that's actually worth its name, they should be refusing to even so much as indulge the suggestions of the executive order. What Trump is trying to say is universities, all universities essentially need to help us. They need to report on these activities. And there's absolutely no reason for the universities to do that.

REEVE: When asked about the executive order, Cornell said it continues to evaluate how the order will affect its community as more concrete information becomes available. It will provide guidance.

Will the executive order affect your activism going forward?

WAKED: Well, I might not be as quick to pick up a megaphone. I'll put it that way. But I'm still going to be writing. I'm still going to be teaching. I'm still going to be thinking through and encouraging folks to like, have these conversations.

And so yeah, but I guess it will affect it at least a little bit.

REEVE: Elle Reeve CNN, Ithaca, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: Thank you for joining us.

"AC360" starts now.