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Erin Burnett Outfront

Trump: Call Musk "Whatever You Want", WH: But Not In Charge Of DOGE; Trump Blames Ukraine; New Video Of Toronto Crash. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired February 18, 2025 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:37]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:

Breaking news, the mystery over Musk. The White House insisting it's Trump, not Elon Musk overseeing efforts to upend the U.S. government. But that's not what Trump and Musk have said. So who's in charge?

Also, breaking, Trump parrots Putin, falsely claiming Ukraine started the war with Russia.

And video showing the moment that the Delta flight crashed in Canada, flipping over, as new video into OUTFRONT shows the chaos on board as passengers scramble to get out of their seats.

Let's go OUTFRONT.

Good evening. I'm Brianna Keilar, in for Erin Burnett.

OUTFRONT tonight, breaking news, call him whatever you want. Just don't call Elon Musk the head of DOGE. That's the message from the president, who was pressed tonight on what exactly Musk's role is when it comes to dismantling the U.S. government.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Elon is, to me, a patriot. So, you know, you could call him an employee. You could call him a consultant. You could call him whatever you want.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: But as I said, just don't call him the head of DOGE.

In a striking new court filing, the White House argues, quote, like other senior White House advisers, Mr. Musk has no actual or formal authority to make government decisions himself. So then who is in charge of the department of government efficiency?

Earlier, I asked Trump's deputy chief of staff for policy, Stephen Miller.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN MILLER, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF FOR POLICY: DOGE is the -- what was formerly U.S. Digital Services. It's an agency that federal government that reports into the office of -- the executive office of the president, which reports to the president of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: He says Trump's in charge. Back in November, Trump said Musk was in charge when he announced DOGE. Quote, I am pleased to announce that the great Elon Musk, working in conjunction with American patriot Vivek Ramaswamy, will lead the Department of Government Efficiency.

Ramaswamy long gone, but Musk remains, and he certainly sounds like he's the man in charge.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELON MUSK, TECH BILLIONAIRE: We actually are trying to be as transparent as possible. In fact, our actions -- we post our actions to the DOGE handle on X, and to the DOGE website. All of our actions are fully public. It's not like I think I can get away with something. I'll be scrutinized nonstop.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: And tonight, CNN learning that whoever is DOGE is also attending meetings at the Pentagon. This after seeking highly sensitive information at the Social Security administration and the IRS.

Jeff Zeleny is OUTFRONT, live in West Palm Beach, Florida.

So, Jeff, why is the White House making it so officially unclear who is heading DOGE when practically speaking, it does seem to be Elon Musk.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: I mean, Brianna, that is a great question. And for all of the controversies and really questions surrounding this first month of this administration, one of them did not seem to be who was running DOGE. It was hardly something being hidden. In fact, it was being celebrated by the White House.

But this all came about as you said in a court filing, when the White House has said that the administrator was not -- was not Elon Musk specifically. That is for litigation purposes. We've seen all these lawsuits coming. So, clearly, they do not want Elon Musk to be in that role.

But I was thinking back as we were going through all of this today to the night before the inauguration, when then President-elect Trump made clear who was in charge.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We will create the new Department of Government Efficiency, headed by a gentleman named Elon Musk, who's here someplace. (END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So from even before the president was sworn in to certainly that scene last week in the Oval Office, it is clear that Elon Musk is in charge of DOGE, his young engineers are spread throughout the entire government.

But actually, who the administrator is, is an open question. It could be a long time. A worker of his as Steve Davis, who has worked for Elon Musk for many years. He could be the actual administrator, but the White House simply would not say.

But, Brianna, the reason this matters is another executive order signed last week by the White House says the administrator of DOGE has to send a monthly report on new hires back to the White House at the end of six months. They also have to send a report on how this is all going.

[19:05:09]

So Elon Musk has never backed away from the spotlight, except it appears when the question is who's actually running DOGE? Brianna?

KEILAR: Very interesting. Jeff Zeleny, thank you.

Everyone is here now. We have Jamal Simmons.

So I wonder, Jamal, does it seem to you that Elon Musk is in charge of DOGE?

JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Of course, Elon Musk is in charge of DOGE. The president said it. Elon Musk has said it. It's walking like a duck. It's talking like a duck. He's in charge of DOGE.

The question that's happening, though right now is they're trying to dodge responsibility. I'm missing like a letter, right? DOGE, dodge. But they're trying to dodge responsibility for Elon Musk being there.

Here's the question. Is he operating on behalf of his companies, or is he operating on behalf of the American public? Is he taking advantage of his government position for his own personal enrichment? We don't know. Is he using personal and private data from Americans to marry up with the private data that he has, or public data that he has from those companies? We don't know.

There are all sorts of things. When you're at the White House, you have to be able to report back on your conflicts and adhere to ethical constraints. It just doesn't seem like he's doing that.

KEILAR: Matt Mowers, let's look again at what Trump said today about Musk's role. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Elon is, to me, a patriot. So, you know, you could call him an employee. You could call him a consultant. You could call him whatever you want. But he's a patriot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: I mean, Matt, may we all aspire to be patriots, but it's probably not what's on our business card, right? Is that an important detail to nail down?

MATT MOWERS, FORMER TRUMP ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: You know. Yeah it is. And by the way, Elon Musk is a patriot. He's the worlds wealthiest person volunteering his time to assist the president of the United States to implement and advise on implementing one of his key objectives, which was taking on the administrative state.

And look, I'm a lifelong conservative. Most lifelong conservatives have been waiting a generation to cut down on the size of the federal bureaucracy in government to actually decrease the headcount. And in one month, you're already seeing President Trump and along with Elon's advice, getting that done.

I mean, you had 4 percent, almost at 4 percent of reduction, the headcount from the buyout process alone that they had put in place, let alone the rifts that are undergoing right now. Ultimately, it's going to result in a streamlined federal government that's going to ensure that U.S. taxpayers are getting a heck of a lot more for their dollar that they're putting into than they were in the last few administrations.

KEILAR: Lulu Garcia-Navarro, what do you think?

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Mm. Not that. I think that there's a lot of problems here. First of all, there's no transparency. How many people have actually been let go? Where are they being let go from? It's incredibly chaotic. If you hear from federal workers themselves, some of them don't understand their status. Some of them have been forcing to go, being forced to go into office when there is an office space.

You know, the entire way that this is being done is with a sledgehammer. And the fact is, if there is no transparency, you're talking about -- yes, working for the American people. Well, what the American people actually demand is if you are working for them, we should understand who you are. What is your security clearance? What is the purpose of what you're doing?

I mean, these are all things that are incredibly important. And the reason we demand transparency, the American people, is because if something goes wrong, then who should we understand is to blame? Where does the buck stop? How do we understand who's going to be taking responsibility?

You know, they are meddling in things like who deals with our nuclear arsenal. This isn't just a casual thing, you know, firing people at Twitter. This is actually dealing with America's national security.

And so who is in charge? Why is this happening? And who is doing what? It's incredibly important for all of us to understand, journalists and regular people.

KEILAR: And I asked Stephen Miller --

MOWERS: Can I answer actually, Lulu's question there, Brianna? I mean, we know the answer. Donald Trump's the one who's executing on his agenda, the same thing he campaigned on.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Well, you're jumping the gun, Matt. You're jumping the gun.

MOWERS: I'm sorry.

KEILAR: Because I asked Stephen Miller that earlier. And here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: So who is in charge of DOGE?

MILLER: The president of the United States?

KEILAR: He's the administrator of DOGE.

MILLER: No, the DOGE is the what was formerly U.S. Digital Services. It's an agency that federal government that reports into the office of -- the executive office of the president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: But, Matt, the president is not the one who is reviewing these individual personnel files. He's not firing the people who are in charge of the nuclear stockpile, kind of seemingly accidentally, and then rehiring them.

[19:10:07]

So that's important. That's an important distinction.

MOWERS: Well, but his Senate confirmed cabinet is, right? I mean, the way it works, I mean, I worked in the State Department under President Trump, right? I was a senior White House adviser in the first administration.

My job was to advise the secretary of state. Ultimately, the secretary of state, who was confirmed by the Senate, had decision-making ability on hiring and firing.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: But if you're an advisor -- but if you're an adviser, it is -- it is a position that you actually get appointed to. You are constrained in a number of different ways. For example, for conflicts of interest, you can't have businesses that are involved with things that you are actually overseeing, like Elon Musk is.

So again, this is all being done in a way that is incredibly chaotic. There is no transparency. And one of the things that we saw today with Judge Chutkan, she gave

DOGE a big win. But one of the things she pointed to is that these -- the -- there is no clarity into what they're doing, so they can't actually show harm. And I think that that is -- there is deliberate -- this is deliberate I think. It is deliberate that we don't know who is in charge of this, because in that chaotic sort of darkness, things can really, you know, grow and we just don't know what's happening.

KEILAR: Let's talk about that conflict of interest.

MOWERS: So, what I want to point though -- yeah.

KEILAR: Go on, Matt.

MOWERS: I was just going to say, you know, he is, I believe, a special government employee, which is a classification of employee.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: You believe or you know?

MOWERS: It happens in every administration.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: But you believe or, you know? You believe or you know?

MOWERS: I mean -- I believe it's even been out there. I mean, I believe that's out there. There's a special government employee, and, by the way. That's not uncommon. That's how you bring folks from the private sector into the government to bring their expertise.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: You do but they're usually have a --

MOWERS: That's a good thing, by the way.

(CROSSTALK)

MOWERS: You know, I don't understand why you can't celebrate the fact --

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: You guys, the administration says he's a special government employee. I think it's pretty clear the purview that he has exceeds that.

Let's look at this moment, a pretty incredible moment today as Trump was asked about Musk's conflict of interest he has. His company is, of course, Tesla, SpaceX. They have just billions of dollars in contracts with the U.S. government.

Here's this exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Mr. President, given your concerns about corruption, you said that if there were any conflicts of interest with Elon Musk, you wouldn't let him anywhere near it.

TRUMP: Yeah, that's right.

REPORTER: DOGE and SpaceX employees are now working directly at the Federal Aviation Administration and the Defense Department, agencies that have billions of dollars in contracts with Musk's companies or that directly regulate his companies. How is that not a conflict of interest?

TRUMP: Well, I mean, I'm just hearing about it. And if there is and he told me before I told him, but obviously I will not let there be any conflict of interest. So anything to do with possibly even space, we won't let Elon partake in that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Jamal?

SIMMONS: I'm just reflecting back to my time at the White House where I literally could not talk to certain news organizations because I had been on their payroll right before I came into the White House. I couldn't deal with any issue that had to do with my wife's current employer at the time when I was at the White House. And you had to report all these things, I mean, pages and pages of documents that report your, you know, whatever individual stocks you know, you may have held for $15 that you had to sell when you go into the White House.

So it's just amazing to me that the presidents basically saying, trust us, Elon Musk isn't going to do any of these things. Just trust us because were so trustworthy.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Well, beyond this, he's also saying, this is the first I've heard of it. I mean, if you actually adhere to the process, there would have been a process to see if he had any conflicts of interest, and this would have all been seen in advance, as opposed to there have to be -- that was my colleague Jonathan Swan there asking that that question to President Trump. And, you know, not the media having to do this vetting, but the government itself having to do this vetting.

SIMMONS: But, Brianna, let me just say this also for the record, Democrats should be talking about this. We should be trying to stop the worst things that the -- that the Trump administration is up to. But that's not going to be enough to win back the support of the American people. Democrats need to also begin talking about what's important to the American people --

KEILAR: Well, Jamal --

SIMMONS: -- and how they are going to fix the government and make sure the government works and the change that the Democrats want to bring out. That is the thing that we've got to keep.

KEILAR: That's a whole other can of worms, and certainly one the conversation that needs to be had.

Thank you all of you. Really appreciate your time tonight.

SIMMONS: Thank you.

MOWERS: Thank you.

KEILAR: So OUTFRONT next, breaking news, Trump repeating Russian propaganda. He's claiming that it's Ukraine's fault that Russia invaded it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: He should have ended it three years. He should have never started it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Also breaking. Officials releasing new details tonight about what may have caused a Delta flight -- this flight here -- to flip upside down after that plane landed in Toronto.

And NASCAR breaking with one of its most high profile supporters, President Trump. But can the sport convince Trump supporters to get behind an electric future?

[19:15:01]

It's a story you'll see first on OUTFRONT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Breaking news. President Trump tonight falsely claiming that Russia's invasion of Ukraine was started by Ukraine. Trump echoing a Russian talking point on the same day the U.S. and Russia held talks about ending the war with Ukrainian leaders nowhere to be found.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I think I have the power to end this war. And I think it's going very well. But today I heard, oh, well, we weren't invited. Well, you've been there for three years. You should have ended it three years. You should have never started it. You could have made a deal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: As a reminder, this is how the war started, in February of 2022, Russian missiles hitting Kyiv.

Trump also seemed to push for new presidential elections in Ukraine. That's something that Russia really wants to see happen.

Matthew Chance is OUTFRONT.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Russians are calling these first U.S. talks a huge accomplishment. After years of hostility, officials from both sides now chatting across a Saudi negotiating table.

The U.S. says it wanted to see how serious the Kremlin is about ending its brutal Ukraine war.

MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: I came away today convinced that they are willing to begin to engage in a serious process to determine how and how quickly and through what mechanism can end be brought to this war, whether we can ultimately reach that outcome will obviously depend on every side in this conflict's willingness to agree to certain things.

CHANCE: For the past three years, Russia has been pounding the front lines across Ukraine, seizing territory in a full scale invasion estimated to have inflicted hundreds of thousands of casualties on both sides. Despite tough sanctions, though and steep losses, the Kremlin has shown little sign of wavering, even now, briefing that the war is just one issue, along with restoring economic ties in the possible normalization of relations with the U.S. under President Trump.

KIRILL DMITRIEV, CEO, RUSSIAN DIRECT INVESTMENT FUND: I think, again, in the previous administration, there was so much damage done to any communication, any dialogue, any understanding of each other, I think the Biden administration. So, I think we're starting from a very low base. And we have lots of road ahead of us. But I think the conversation was a dialogue, trying to understand each other's position, respectful dialogue. And that's already a huge accomplishment. No ultimatums, really understanding each other's positions.

CHANCE: But what's also striking in Riyadh is the absence of key players, not least Ukraine, whose embattled president vows he will not give in to Russia's ultimatums and express surprise U.S. Russia talks are proceeding at a pace.

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Today, Europe, NATO countries and the United States could give Ukraine hope, strong security guarantees, hope that Ukraine will become a NATO member.

But today, we do not hear such support from the United States. We know that they and several other European partners do not support a membership in NATO. And I believe that this is Russia's great desire.

CHANCE: Another is Russia being back at the top table of international diplomacy and the Kremlin dream of shattering Western unity on Ukraine, becoming a harsh reality.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHANCE (on camera): And tonight, Brianna, President Trump is telling reporters that he could meet his Russian counterpart, Vladimir Putin, as early as the end of this month. That's just 11 days away.

The Kremlin has said no date has been set or agreed, but the U.S. president seems determined to press ahead with something that would have been unthinkable just over a month ago, before he was inaugurated, basically forcing a deal upon Ukraine while resetting relations with Russia.

Brianna, back to you.

KEILAR: Really amazing.

Matthew Chance, thank you for the report.

OUTFRONT now, Democratic Senator Jeff Merkley. He is on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

Senator, first, your reaction just to President Trump falsely stating that Ukraine started the war when Russia did.

SEN. JEFF MERKLEY (D-OR): Well, it's incredible. And it's really been a set of events since last Wednesday that have just thrown shockwaves through the alliance. There was the Wednesday night call between President Trump and Putin without consultation with our NATO allies, or, for that matter, with the Ukrainians. There was Vance's speech, the vice president's speech in Munich, where he basically blamed European democracies, belittled them, treated them, has just kind of not even real partners, while meeting with the far right in Germany, which has been a problematic element to the vision of democracy, a group that's much more interested more in autocracy, if you will.

And then you have Rubio going off to Riyadh to start conversations, our Secretary of State Rubio, and excluding Ukraine and our European allies from the conversation.

So this set of things and now with President Trump saying, well, the Ukrainians shouldn't have started a war, it is shocking to have the leader of the United States of America not know the most fundamental elements of how this crisis came to be a dictator, Putin, who wanted access to the sea, who took Crimea, who wanted a land bridge to Crimea, invading and wanting to completely wipe out Ukraine.

[19:25:03]

And -- and boy, when he first had the ships and tanks position, people thought that within days he might succeed. And here we are years later, because the people of Ukraine care so much about the same values we have, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion, freedom of speech that they were willing to sacrifice enormous losses, enormous losses in blood, enormous losses in injuries, enormous losses in the economy to keep their freedom.

And here we have the president of the United States and his team instead facilitating a split between our allies, our democratic allies in the United States.

KEILAR: So why do you think he's doing that? What do you think is motivating this administration?

MERKLEY: Well, we saw in his first administration how much he loves -- that is Trump. President Trump loves authoritarian figures. And we are seeing his authoritarian actions here at home. So in this bizarre twist of history, we have the president of our republic, our democracy, who is more in love with dictators than with democracy.

KEILAR: Your Republican colleague, Mississippi Senator Roger Wicker, he's the chair of the Senate Armed Services Committee. He wants Ukraine to have a seat at the table. And he called Putin a war criminal, said he should be jailed for the rest of his life if not executed. Said he should not be trusted in these talks.

Does that go anywhere with this White House?

MERKLEY: I don't think it does. I think the White House is set on its path. It's willing to take criticism. It's valuable though.

It's certainly -- I praise Senator Wicker for saying what we're all aware of -- of how horrific Putin is as a dictator, the losses of all freedoms in Russia, the massive loss of lives of him feeding them into this -- this war in Ukraine, his invasion and his plot to begin with.

So thank you, Senator Wicker, for pointing out the obvious, but being willing to say it at a time when this White House is assembling an authoritarian power here in the United States, and being quite harsh on those who would criticize it, especially Republicans who would criticize it.

KEILAR: What are President Zelenskyy's options now as you see them?

MERKLEY: Well, he has to make a clear as he's trying to do that you can't have negotiations in the future of our country, democracy without us at the table. Now, maybe this can be fixed because you have these initial conversations. And now if, if, if the Trump team goes and holds extensive consultations with -- with our NATO partners who have been with us throughout this war with the Ukrainians themselves, there are a series of issues that pretty much people understand are going to be factors that have to be dealt with in seeking peace.

And by the way, all of us want to see an end to this war. It's been clear for a long time that the amount of land passing back and forth is modest, while the number of lives continue to be that are lost continue to be extensive. So there's the outlines of a deal, but it can't be a deal that Ukrainians are excluded from. They have to be involved.

And the Europeans are going to be expected to play a big role in guaranteeing whatever peace is worked out. President Trump has made that very clear. Well, if you want them to be a big part of the deal, you better involve them.

KEILAR: Senator Merkley, thank you so much for being with us tonight at such a critical point in this.

MERKLEY: You're very welcome, Brianna.

KEILAR: OUTFRONT next, breaking news. We are just getting in some new video, and here it is. Take moments after that delta jet crashed and flipped upside down. You can see passengers in another video still hanging from their seats as others are scrambling to get out.

Plus, New York City Mayor Eric Adams's future now in jeopardy, as the state's governor suggests she may oust the embattled mayor.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:33:26]

KEILAR: Breaking news. This is new video into CNN that shows the chaotic moments inside that Delta flight that flipped upside down going into Toronto. You can see passengers hanging. They're reaching to grab their belongings and free themselves.

And this comes as officials are updating the number of people injured in the crash to 21. And as investigators are on scene trying to figure out what or who is to blame.

Jason Carroll is OUTFRONT.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): New video capturing the shocking moment a Delta commuter jet crash-landed and flipped, leading passengers strapped in their seats, hanging upside down Monday at Toronto's Pearson Airport.

DEBORAH FLINT, PRESIDENT & CEO, GREATER TORONTO AIRPORTS AUTHORITY: The crew of Delta Flight 4819 heroically led passengers to safety. I thank each and every one of these heroes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Drop, everything. Drop it. Come on.

CARROLL: Those heroes swiftly and efficiently evacuated all 76 passengers off the aircraft after it crashed. As they crawled one by one out of the plane, passengers helped each other along the way.

PETE CARLSON, PASSENGER WHO SURVIVED DELTA CRASH: You could see kind of row by row or area by area, people were checking one another out, making decisions about whether we would help one another with their straps, or if by doing that, would they be landing on somebody else.

CARROLL: One passenger told OUTFRONT that all seemed normal as the aircraft was on its final descent, but then suddenly a hard landing.

The new video, filmed from another plane on the tarmac, captures the jet erupting in flames as it skids down the runway and flips over.

[19:35:02]

JOHN NELSON, PASSENGER WHO SURVIVED DELTA CRASH: When we hit, it was just a super hard, like hit the ground and the plane went sideways. And I believe we skidded, like on our side and then flipped over on our back where we ended up, there was like a big fireball.

PETE KOUKOV, PASSENGER WHO SURVIVED DELTA CRASH: There was no like real indication of anything. And then, yeah, we hit the ground and we were sideways, and then we were upside down, hanging like bats.

CARROLL: In the few days, leading up to the crash, Toronto received more snow than it had the entire previous winter. But officials say it's too early to answer if that was a factor in the crash.

FLINT: This would not be a time for us to have theory, or to speculate on what caused the crash.

CARROLL: Canadian officials say 21 people on board were injured. None were life threatening, and on Tuesday afternoon, officials said only two remained in the hospital. The incident comes as the aviation industry is still reeling from recent accidents involving an American Airlines commuter jet and a military chopper near Washington, D.C., a medevac jet in Philadelphia and a Bering Air flight near Nome, Alaska.

Passengers on board Flight 4814 say it's remarkable everyone survived.

CARLSON: I think the most powerful part of today was -- there was just -- just people. No countries, no nothing, it was just people together, helping each other.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL: Absolutely incredible.

And, Brianna, just to give you an update, that plane is actually still out there on the runway behind me, still in the same position where it crashed. Investigators have been on board, and late this afternoon, Brianna, they confirmed that they did, in fact, retrieve the cockpit voice recorder, the flight data recorder. So they've got that in their hands.

But even with all of that potential information that they have access to, it's going to be some time before they have an exact cause -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Jason Carroll, thank you for that report from Toronto.

OUTFRONT now, Aaron Murphy, commercial pilot and flight instructor, joining us live from the Toronto airport. And Mary Schiavo, former inspector general at the U.S. Department of Transportation.

And, Mary, you've seen this. We just obtained this video, and it shows the inside of the plane as passengers were hanging upside down from their seats. Talk us through the dangers of this situation in these first moments after the crash.

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, there are many dangers, and not the least of which are probably the ones we don't see. One problem with seat belts, and there's one good thing is everybody does seem to be hanging. So they followed the captain and the flight attendants rules. The flight attendants went through the cabin probably twice to make sure everybody's belt was fastened.

But for small people, very thin people, little children, often they fall from the belts. And so we didn't hear a lot of that. There still may be some of that we don't know about, but that's what's supposed to happen. They're supposed to be secured in those belts. But the problem is getting down.

And that's when a lot of head injuries happen. If they just release the belt and fall, then that's a problem. But there doesn't seem to be any panic. There was no fire. There's no smoke, right?

(AUDIO GAP) kills most people, the heat, the smoke, the fumes and the fire. And, you know, miraculously, they didn't have that. And the flashover happened and was extinguished by the time they stopped and had to get out. Very, very fortunate.

KEILAR: Yeah. Thank goodness.

And, Aaron, I want to show the video again that shows the plane as its coming in to land and then instead it crashes. When you slow it down, you can see it hits the ground, it catches fire there very quickly. It flips what stands out to you as you as you see this.

AARON MURPHY, CANADIAN COMMERCIAL PILOT: Yeah. Looking at that approach, it's incredible, first of all, that that aircraft parked on Juliet there, holding short of 23 was able to just put the phone up and just for some reason record that aircraft. And it was landing of all the random things to do and to have that outcome.

The thing that I'm seeing on that approach is what we call a stabilized approach. It looks fine with the -- with the wind gusts and the conditions that we had, that day, I would expect to see the aircraft struggling to maintain wings level. We should see a lot of roll inputs. It looked incredibly stable to me all the way down to the very last seconds of that approach in landing.

And, it's -- it's almost as if they picked up some kind of a downward gust, or maybe a gust had suddenly stopped at the time of landing and kind of dropped out the bottom of the aircraft, like the aircraft seems to have just dropped to the runway suddenly. And that really struck me as odd.

I didn't really perceive, um, any amount of flare happening in that landing, which to me is very odd. I think any person who has some flying experience would have picked that up right away. The aircraft stays level all the way down to the ground.

[19:40:01]

I did not see the nose come up in any kind of a flare at, at the point where I would have expected to see a flare, and the flare is where the aircraft pitches nose up gradually, just a little bit to reduce the vertical speed so you're not slamming it down onto the runway as we saw in this case, unfortunately.

KEILAR: Yeah. That vertical deceleration that we kind of perceive as floating nicely down the runway usually. And, Mary, we just learned that the cockpit voice recorder and the flight data recorder were both recovered. Maybe not surprising because of the condition of this plane, but how quickly can investigators take that and get the information from it to figure things out?

SCHIAVO: Oh, the Canadian officials are very. They will -- oh, sorry. They will be downloading it right now. They already have the CVR and they've probably downloaded the flight data recorder. It is -- it's, you know, computer data. So what they have to do is they do have to analyze it, but they're downloading it literally right now.

This is one they'll be looking at air speed, wind shifts, you know, maybe there was a landing gear failure of the locking mechanism or the pneumatics. They will look at flap deployment, everything, and they will have this. This is one where they will have very quickly and they're reading it. They're printing it out, reading it out, downloading it literally probably right now.

KEILAR: And, Aaron, I also wonder just kind of about the psychology of maybe what was happening, because at the press conference today, they said that there were more than 2,000 flights that have been canceled from Thursday to Sunday because of snowstorms. Let's listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FLINT: We got more than 20 inches, 50 centimeters of accumulated snow. That is actually not typical. In fact, it is more snow within that time window than we received in all of last winter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Aaron, they said that Monday was a, quote, recovery day for operations at the airport. We also know I think this flight was coming in a little bit delayed. Do pilots feel pressure in these situations to land their planes, knowing that there's a backlog of delays and cancellations?

MURPHY: I think the -- the only real pressure is duty. Every pilot feels a duty to get their passengers to the airport safely and as quickly as possible. Yeah. And then you get this situation with some really challenging winds. We are -- you're usually -- you're primed to go, you're primed to land, you're primed to continue with the flight.

Different pilots will decide, you know, maybe there's too many threats in this situation. I'm going to pull up and go around. I'm going to come back around and try this one more time because something just doesn't look right.

But yeah, there's a duty. Every pilot feels a duty to get that aircraft to the destination and the passengers safely to the gate. That's absolutely the case. And when there's a backlog of passengers, that's when the pilots really stand up and say, okay, lets get this done, because people need to get where they're going.

KEILAR: All right. Aaron Murphy, Mary Schiavo, thank you so much to both of you.

OUTFRONT next, a city in crisis. Is the fate of New York City's mayor is now hanging in the balance? The state's governor weighing whether or not to remove Mayor Eric Adams from office. Plus, NASCAR on a collision course with one of its biggest fans,

President Trump. It's a special report you'll see first on OUTFRONT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Tonight, New York Governor Kathy Hochul is signaling that she may remove Mayor Eric Adams from office. Hochul meeting today with top New York Democrats about Adams's future, saying that his conduct is, quote, troubling and cannot be ignored.

Any decisions will not come until after a crucial hearing tomorrow. That is, when a judge will question the Justice Department about its decision to drop federal charges against Adams, a decision sparking now eight prosecutors to resign in protest.

OUTFRONT now, Ryan Goodman, "Just Security" co-editor-in-chief.

Ryan, thanks for being with us.

The judge here has ordered the key players in this case to be in court tomorrow. That includes Acting Deputy Attorney General Emil Bove. What will you be watching for?

RYAN GOODMAN, JUST SECURITY CO-EDITOR-IN-CHIEF: So this is fairly dramatic to have the second highest member of the justice department in the southern district of New York.

And the drama is in one question -- big question that's looming. Does the judge actually say, I'm not going to dismiss the case? That would be extraordinary. But this is an extraordinary situation.

And then the second is just its going to be very heated. In all likelihood, the judge is going to drill down on the Justice Department to try to figure out what on earth happened here, that so many people have resigned because they were not willing to submit the document that Mr. Bove finally does under his own signature.

KEILAR: I also want to ask you about a brief that's been filed in this case, three former U.S. attorneys from New York, New Jersey and Connecticut want the judge to conduct an extensive inquiry into DOJ's reasons that they want the case dismissed. One of the questions they want answered is this one, quote, is the request to dismiss the indictment without prejudice, intended to induce Mayor Adams to cooperate with the Trump administrations policy objectives or political efforts?

You say the without prejudice part of that is most important. Perhaps we may understand why. Tell us.

GOODMAN: Yeah. So I think many people think of this as whether or not the Justice Department has improperly dropped the charges or tried to drop the charges against the mayor, but there's an entirely different angle that this question focuses on, which is why didn't you completely drop the charges? Why did you only submit dismissing the case without prejudice, which means they could bring back the charges, and it creates this idea that it's hanging over the mayors head so that if he does not cooperate on immigration policy, one day, lo and behold, can bring it back.

[19:50:04]

I think that's exactly why these former U.S. attorneys focused on it. Because if the Justice Department's position is that the prosecution is flawed beyond repair because it was politicized, then how could you ever bring it back? Or the Justice Departments position is which they've stated, we want to focus only on violent and serious crime, then why not drop the entire case rather than leave it out there hanging over the mayor's head?

So I think that's one of the key questions, and I think its one of the key questions that governor Hochul will be thinking about as well. Can he govern if this is the current situation? And I think Judge Ho might get some answers tomorrow, at least for himself or the American public.

KEILAR: Such an interesting point, and we'll be watching tomorrow to see how this all goes.

Ryan Goodman, thank you so much.

OUTFRONT next, it is full speed ahead for NASCAR as the sport embraces new technology. But will President Trump slow down their push for faster cars?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:55:34]

KEILAR: Tonight, start your engines. NASCAR fans flock to the stands for the roaring motors and the burning rubber. But as the sport looks toward an electric future, not everyone is sold on the idea. And as President Trump takes The Beast on the race track, he also draws a line in the sand.

Bill Weir has the story you'll see first on OUTFRONT.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Just outside the cradle of American racing. Automobile history was made this weekend when formula drift superstar Ryan Tuerck swapped out his rubber burning rig for a machine with twice the power, over 1,300 horses, but with a fraction of the noise and not a whiff of exhaust. Behold, the first electric NASCAR.

This is so surreal. Normally, this event would come with a thunderous sound of that internal combustion engine, but all you hear is this high pitched whine and then just the tires being shredded by those electric engines.

RYAN TUERCK, FORMULA DRIFT DRIVER: The power is just out of this world. It's like nothing I've ever experienced before.

WEIR: It's like twice as much horses as one of the regular NASCAR. TUERCK: Yes, that beyond that you have the power on demand at all

times.

WEIR: Like a power drill.

TUERCK: There isn't a power band. It's just -- there's just all the power at all times.

WEIR: This is one of three electric prototypes unveiled this year, as NASCAR pledges to be net zero by 2035. But while this Chevy Blazer was supposed to be the first electric pace car in Daytona 500 history, it was literally cut off by Donald Trump's armored plated motorcade, a fitting metaphor for a president who was vowing to destroy EV incentives, charging networks and tailpipe pollution standards, as he promised to fossil fuel executives.

Has the politics made your job harder these days?

RILEY NELSON, HEAD OF SUSTAINABILITY, NASCAR: We have very clear corporate goals around sustainability, and so our job is to focus on getting those done no matter who's in office or what's going on. So our focus is on right now again, energy. And right now the race track you have behind you that keeps you up at night. And how do we decarbonize that within the next ten years?

And so, that's everything from energy efficiency, led lights, bringing in different technologies, other partner technologies so that we can reduce our own operating footprint as a sport and then bring that to the fan and educate the fan on how can we bring some of these technologies into our communities and help support the growth of sustainability across the country.

DAVID RAGAN, FORMER NASCAR DRIVER: I guarantee you, there's more EVs in the parking lot today than there was five years ago, and in another five years, there's going to be a lot more.

WEIR: David Ragan is a third generation NASCAR racer who now drives an electric Ford Mustang in retirement simply because its fast, fun, and cheaper to fuel and maintain. He believes this fan base is destined to make that same discovery. So the market, not the president, will decide.

RAGAN: And I think the manufacturers really that they've got their finger on the pulse. Chevrolet, Ford Motor Company, you know, Toyota, the big partners here in NASCAR. They've all got their different plans for how they're going to attack that. And again I think NASCAR is just saying, hey, we want to be prepared when that evolution takes place.

JOHN STAHLBUSCH, EVP OF SALES, ABB: So Daytona they just electrified their parking lot. So they're -- whenever their employees pull up, they'll be able to charge your vehicle. Once charging becomes more ubiquitous and it sort of gets integrated into the fabric of the everyday American, I think it'll become more and more accepted, and it will be utilized more and more by everybody.

WEIR: You were telling me this is a conscious effort to win hearts and minds of folks who pay extra for the fumes and the noise of a --

CHRIS SHIGAS, VICE PRESIDENT, ABB: We're in the energy transition right now in this country, and the energy transition isn't for some people, it's for everyone. So I think we need to have better conversations about how we use energy in the United States. And we welcome all the opinions and all the opinions out here today, because these are important decisions to make our country stronger.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: And Bill is with us now.

So, Bill Trump remaining firmly in favor of combustion engines. Can't Elon Musk just maybe win him over with this idea of electric?

WEIR: That's a great question. It looks like he's going to claw back the incentives that benefited a lot of Tesla buyers. It's interesting that in blue states, Tesla loyalty seems to be going down. It's going up in red states as the Cybertruck becomes sort of a MAGA symbol. But globally, it's taken a huge hit. Sales dropped over 40 percent last year over the years before.

And you got to look at China. In China, there are hundreds of different EV companies that will likely be winnowed down to a dozen or two just global superpowers in the next decade.

But that's a race that Donald Trump seems he wants to sit out.

KEILAR: Yeah. No. Is there a good roar with the E vehicle?

WEIR: No. You'd need to do it artificially. It whines too much and it would beat any NASCAR right off the line. But you need a break to recharge the batteries. So -- but so much faster.

KEILAR: Bill Weir, thank you.

And thank you for joining us.

"AC360" starts now.