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Erin Burnett Outfront

Trump & Musk Claim Dead People To Blame For Government Fraud; Who's Amy Gleason?; Americans In North Korea. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired February 26, 2025 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:50]

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:

They see dead people. Trump and Musk zeroing in on blaming the dead for massive fraud in the United States government. OUTFRONT with the facts.

Plus, breaking new details on the woman the White House claims is running DOGE. In a recent meeting with her own team, she never mentioned this title.

And American tourists in North Korea watching synchronized dancing to honor Kim Jong Un after being treated to flaming snails while Kim, of course, has many in his own country starving. A special report.

Let's go OUTFRONT.

Good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.

And OUTFRONT tonight, seeing dead people. Elon Musk and Donald Trump doubling down tonight on their claims that dead people are to blame for massive fraud inside the United States government. So just today, Musk joined Trump's first meeting with his cabinet. First order of business there was defending his controversial email asking federal employees to justify their jobs and prove their existence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELON MUSK, TECH BILLIONAIRE: We think there are a number of people on the government payroll who are dead, which is probably why they can't respond. And some people who are not real people, like, they literally fictional individuals that are collecting paychecks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Now, CNN asked the White House Treasury Department and the Office of Management and Budget for evidence to back Musk's claims here.

As of tonight, they have not given any evidence to support Musk, but the specific blaming of dead people doesn't end there. I mean, just listen to Musk and Trump when it comes to dead people receiving Social Security checks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLP)

MUSK: And we've got people in there that are 150 years old, now, do you know anyone who has 150? I don't. So, you know, that's a case where, like, I think they're probably dead and there's a whole bunch of Social Security payments where there's no identifiable -- identifying information.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You see people that are 200 years old that are being sent checks for Social Security.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Okay. You know, all of this was a lot to claim, right? The failure to explain here is that the database that Musk seems to be looking at is nothing to do with actual payments. What it is, is people who died, but whose date of death was never recorded.

So according to the Social Security Administration, 0.1 percent of the 67 million people who receive benefits are even over the age of 100. That's not millions and millions. And, of course, there are people living, thank God, who are over 100. So, just because over 100 does not mean that they're dead.

But the dead people boogeyman is not new for Trump. Here he is, remember, talking about winning the state of Georgia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Some of the dead people requested an application and then voted.

The other thing, dead people. So dead people voted and I think the -- the number is in the close to 5,000 people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Five thousand. I mean, that would have been half the margin by which he lost the state, right? Five thousand dead people, that's a lot. That's a problem.

But the facts here, of course, the Republican secretary of state of Georgia, who runs and certifies and audited that election in Georgia twice, is happy to tell us all how many dead people voted in Georgia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRAD RAFFENSPERGER (R), GEORGIA SECRETARY OF STATE: We found two dead people. When I wrote my letter to Congress that stated January 6th, and subsequent to that, we found two more. That's one, two, three, four people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Four people.

Now, you don't want four dead people voting, but that's not 5,000. One, two, three, four. Two plus two is four.

And while Trump has never admitted that he made a mistake, in fact, he must stand by these dead people claims, it comes even as most today did cavalierly admit to another mistake.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MUSK: One of the things we accidentally canceled very briefly was Ebola -- Ebola prevention. I think we all want Ebola prevention. So we restored the Ebola prevention immediately.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: All right. He used the word accident. I mean, that accident joins a number of mistakes, though, by Musk and DOGE, including the very most basic, which is, you know, what they claim to be cutting, a CNN review of the 1,100 contracts listed on the DOGE website, and found that two thirds made inflated claims. So they said they were doing a lot more than they were actually doing. Well, including, of course, the infamous one, which they claim to have saved $8 billion when they actually saved $8 million, which to state the obvious is not a rounding error that is off by 1,000 times.

[19:05:05]

Jeff Zeleny is OUTFRONT live outside the White House.

And you know, Jeff, the context of this and, you know, talking about dead people comes as the White House is asking for even more sweeping layoffs. Can you connect the dots for us here?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, it is all connected. There's no doubt that was an extraordinary cabinet meeting that we saw play out. But it is part of -- as that was happening, agencies across Washington were being asked to prepare a list of employees, a large list of employees who could be laid off.

This list is -- is due to be submitted soon. These layoffs could also be coming soon. March 13th is one deadline. This is all part of the executive orders the president signed after taking office.

So, creating the argument, the illusion of waste and fraud and that there are dead people on the rolls sort of bolsters the argument for why the federal workforce needs to be reduced. So all of these are coming together, even as Congress is trying to pass its budget plan, and they are looking for offsets, if you will, to help pay for tax cuts.

So everything here has been connected dot by dot, week by week. But these allegations of waste and fraud and abuse still do not likely add up to the trillions of dollars that are going to be needed here. But as for agencies, they are across this government, across the country and all agencies looking for the biggest reductions in force since the Clinton administration, when there was a big modernization of government. So we shall see how that plays out. But that's why all this is connected here. But very interestingly, Erin, after the cabinet meeting today, the

White House chief of staff, Susie Wiles, she actually left a little bit early to go have a lunch on Capitol Hill with Senate Republicans. They were asking her about this process here, about the confusion inside the workforce.

And she made clear she said, Elon Musk works for the president. He does not report to cabinet secretaries. So we saw the senior adviser who is the first among equals. He's the power center in this administration -- Erin.

BURNETT: That's for sure.

All right. Thank you very much, Jeff Zeleny.

Brian Barrett is OUTFRONT now, executive editor at "Wired". Obviously, that team has been breaking so much news about Elon Musk and DOGE. James Surowiecki, contributing writer at "The Atlantic", long covered Musk; and Lulu Garcia-Navarro, "The New York Times" podcast host.

Okay, I'm so glad to have all of you.

And, Brian, you know, we start with, Musk said in his email to the federal workers. He said it was perhaps misinterpreted as a performance review. It actually was a pulse check review, which he meant in the literal sense, right? Checking for dead people? Does he really think they are paying lots of dead people?

BRIAN BARRETT, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, WIRED: You know, it is hard to tell sometimes how much is sort of smokescreen for cuts and how much is legitimate. I do think that Elon Musk genuinely thinks that there are dead people receiving checks from the government. I think that in part, A, because he's very consistent about it, but also because this also happened when he took over Twitter. He got a bunch of his leaders into a room and asked them, are there dead people on our payroll?

And he would've been laughed out of that room if those people themselves weren't afraid of being fired. I think this is sort of a deeply paranoiac way to view either the federal government or a business, which is alarming in and of itself. But no, I think you have to take him seriously here, as absurd as that sounds.

BURNETT: Well, you certainly do. I mean, if you're going to walk into a Twitter room, it just think about who would have been working for twitter and ask if there's dead people on the payroll.

James, you've been doing so much reporting on Musk's claims about dead people stealing money from the government, right? Goes beyond the issue of the pulse check of the federal workers. I mean, we're talking about Social Security, right? It's across the board.

JAMES SUROWIECKI, CONTRIBUTING WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: Yeah. I mean, I think with the social security thing in particular, and I would say more broadly, I think the thing Musk is trying to do and is really wrestling with is he wants to cut massive amounts of money from the federal budget. So back in October, he said 2 trillion. He has now reduced that to $1 trillion.

But $1 trillion is still an enormous amount to cut. And he can't really do it without touching Social Security or Medicare or the defense budget, all of which Trump has theoretically sort of said are off limits.

And so I think what he's really trying to do, either consciously or unconsciously, is find ways to find that trillion, trillion dollars. And one of the ways he's doing it is by pretending or imagining that there is this massive amount of fraud in the Social Security Department, which we know there is not. I mean, Social Security is actually one of the more efficient and direct and clean government departments in the government. And yet he basically, by misinterpreting this table, has constructed this entire myth.

BURNETT: You know, it's kind of amazing. When I started, we realized that it was funeral directors, right. Funeral house directors who were doing the fact checks here about what they do when somebody dies and the information that they send to the SSA about when somebody dies to say that, you know, how this is handled.

[19:10:05]

I mean, Lulu, you know, its interesting that the words James used, you said whether, you know, he's pretending or imagining. What do you make of this obsession and Trump's obsession with blaming everything from Social Security costs to federal payroll to the election in Georgia, where he had that completely made up number. He said 5,000 dead people voted, and it was four. It is an obsession now that crosses time and circumstance.

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think it's a conspiracy theory. I mean, I think that's the right word to use.

And we know that Donald Trump and Elon Musk put these conspiracy theories out into the ether because they resonate. They actually work. I mean, I've seen this repeated by family members on Facebook and other places where, you know, they take the word of Elon Musk and president Donald Trump and they say, look, they've found all these dead people, and it feeds into a myth in America, right? That somehow there is a big bunch of people sort of sucking money from the government, and they're living off of, you know, fake Social Security numbers, et cetera, et cetera.

It feeds into something that is kind of like an urban myth, if you will. And so it's found fertile ground, I think.

BURNETT: Right. And you can, you know, make the number as vast as you want to if you want to believe it.

Of course, the facts show it to be false. But, you know, Brian, I'm curious at when we, you know, see that cabinet meeting and Musk justifying that email that was sent to federal workers, you know, reply or else.

And the response in the room, you know, there was a lot of stony faced response from people who are, you know, all in Trump loyalists and enthusiasts. So that's reflecting now the departments they work for. I mean, do workers in the government, people who are going to work every day doing crucial services? Do they have any idea what's going on right now themselves?

BARRETT: No, not really. Unfortunately, they got a little bit of clarity from the Office of Personnel Management saying, no, you're not going to be forcibly resigned if you don't write back to that first email. But then you had Elon Musk going back on X, saying, next time you're going to get fired, you'll have another chance, and then its going to be a problem.

I think we've seen some pushback from the agency heads, which is good to see and make sense. But even within certain agencies, people have gotten conflicting guidance, agency to agency. It's varied. It's all chaotic. And I don't think all that's been resolved.

And if there is a next time, if there is another email saying write back or else, I am pretty sure were going to run into the same set of circumstances of just mass chaos and confusion over the consequences.

BURNETT: And to your point, you know, Musk had said, well, there's going to be another one. If there's one. Then he was there was another, and now there's going to be another. I mean, you know, we don't know. I mean, you point out is a very real risk.

I mean, Lulu, to this, this cabinet meeting and, and Musk being there front and center as, as the chiefs of the departments are there. Let me just play how Trump introduced Musk to the cabinet today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Is anybody unhappy with Elon? If you are, we'll throw him out of here.

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: They have a lot of respect for Elon and that he's doing this. And some disagree a little bit. But I will tell you, for the most part, I think everyone's not only happy, they're thrilled.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: So, Lulu, anyone -- anyone happy with Elon if you are, will throw him out. I think everyone's not only happy, they're thrilled. Is that the case?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yeah, they didn't look -- they didn't look too thrilled. I mean, you got to just look at Marco Rubio's face right there. Secretary of state. Pretty powerful position. Former senator from Florida.

And instead, he's sitting there like a kind of chastened schoolboy, having to listen to Elon Musk, you know, sort of, take center stage. If there was any doubt about who is running this show, this cabinet meeting sort of dispelled that. Donald Trump likes theater. He does things very intentionally. You know, it's like a stage set for him. And the message that this sends is that all of these people who are supposedly very powerful and the heads of their cabinet, they are not in charge. The person that's in charge is Elon Musk.

BURNETT: And James, you know, when Musk stands up there and it is their coordination in advance between him and Trump, I mean, is this sort of, you know, is this what would he wants to hear from Trump?

SUROWIECKI: I think that the point about this being theatrical is exactly right. I mean, that's Trump. Trump loves theater. He loves staging things. I assume he really set that up.

Even the fact that Musk is sort of allowed to, you know, wear a t- shirt under a jacket, Trump's a very formal guy, generally is kind of disapproving of that sort of look. So the fact that he allowed Elon to wear that and Elon to wear the hat, I think that's all part and parcel of sort of the image.

The other thing I would say is the one thing Trump really respects is money, and he really respects billionaires. And Elon has more billions than anybody else. So I think that that really has bought Elon a lot of room.

[19:15:01]

And so I think that that's really where that sort of coming from.

I mean, to be honest, I don't think Trump really cares that much about cutting jobs or efficiency. It's just not something he's especially interested in. But I think he has respect for Musk. And, you know, he really was sort of sending a message there that you -- you should sort of listen to Musk and, and let him kind of, lead the -- the way things are going to go right now.

BURNETT: You know, in that room as, as Lulu just said, Brian, you know, a lot of people looked a lot less than thrilled just to state the obvious, right? You know, sullen, chastened was the word -- chastened schoolboy, right, that you used, Lulu.

But, Brian, their reaction here to Musk being put in and Trump making a point of saying, well, they're all thrilled, when clearly he could see the look on their face. You know, is this essentially the loyalty test that Trump was putting forth to the cabinet?

BARRETT: It really felt like one. And, you know, our reporting and other reporting has shown that there is a lot of controversy within Trump's inner circle, even about the amount of power that Elon Musk has, especially as there's a lot more pushback as members of Congress go home and they face their constituents and they are getting yelled at over all of these programs that have been cut for farmers, for scientific research.

I think that it was important, I guess, in Trump's eyes, to make clear that that Musk still has his full backing, but I've given the response in the room. You can only imagine that the pressure to adjust Musk's role is only going to grow.

BURNETT: So, James, let me play something that Musk said today at the cabinet meeting. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MUSK: The overall goal here with the DOGE team is to help address the enormous deficit we simply cannot sustain as a country, a $2 trillion deficits, the interest rates, just the interest on the national debt now exceeds the Defense Department's spending. We spend a lot on the Defense Department, but were spending like over $1 trillion on interest. If this continues, the country will go become de facto bankrupt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Okay. The issues of spending are obviously very real.

James, my question to you is then they went and said, well, Musk said some of those DOGE savings are going to send checks to Americans, checks to Americans, as opposed to, say, using it to actually pay down the deficit, to pump more money into the system already having an inflation issue.

I mean, do they have a real plan here for what to do with the savings, if there are any?

SUROWIECKI: No, I don't. I mean, the DOGE dividend idea, which is what you're talking about, was this idea that, I mean, literally a guy on Twitter came up with. And the idea is that to take 20 percent of the savings, whatever savings DOGE gets, and to essentially send that back to Americans.

And I think it shows two things. One is I think it's a massive exaggeration of how much DOGE is going to save. They're not going to save a trillion the way that -- that Musk has said. And so I think the amounts would be small.

But I think the bigger point is the only reason you would send 20 percent back to Americans is essentially, again, as theater to sort of make this kind of public impression. If you're actually serious about cutting the deficit, you would use that money to essentially reduce the deficit, because in order to send checks out, we're actually going to have to borrow the money to send the checks out, which makes no sense at all.

And I'll just go back to that point I made earlier. I think the real problem here is that Musk and I think Trump to some degree, but Musk really is looking for easy solutions to a very complicated problem, which is that if we really want to balance the budget or come close to it, we have to raise taxes and we probably have to do something about entitlements, and no one wants to do any of those things.

BURNETT: Right.

SUROWIECKI: And so, we're trying to find all these other solutions like the DOGE dividend and the rest.

BURNETT: Yeah. Well, and even when you look at the Defense Department, right, the big -- the big chunk of spending there. I mean, there's plenty to look at, right? But -- but health care, it all goes to those entitlements.

All right. Thank you all very much. I really appreciate the conversation.

And next, new reporting just in to OUTFRONT on the woman that the White House claims has been running DOGE for weeks, not the guy there with the black MAGA hat. So did she even know she was running DOGE before the White House suddenly announced, like, hey, that she's been doing it?

Plus, a top Justice Department nominee refuses to say that Trump has to abide by court orders. This is the president's allies, in unison, are threatening to impeach judges.

And tonight, an incredible story here OUTFRONT, North Korea with American tourists who've been allowed into the country for the first time in five years.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was a flaming snail that was brought to me, and I was like, I don't know what to do with this, but it's cool.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[19:24:00]

BURNETT: Breaking news, new details into OUTFRONT about the so-called acting administrator of DOGE, Amy Gleason's name wasn't even known to the public until the White House announced her name yesterday.

But CNN's now learning Gleason didn't mention the role or her new title during an all staff meeting just days ago, right. So she would have told them, but she didn't. She was scheduled to be on vacation in Mexico this week when her role was publicly revealed.

Sunlen Serfaty is OUTFRONT with the new reporting this hour.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP: I asked Elon, who are these DOGE people?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): She is not a household name.

TRUMP: He said, they're super brilliant computer people and they love the country.

SERFATY: But Amy Gleason, at least on paper and for now is the acting administrator of DOGE, overseeing Elon Musk's personal mission, the massive effort to reshape the federal government. CNN learning that Gleason for the first time, led a DOGE staff meeting

last week with the message, I am here to move this organization forward, according to a federal worker who asked not to be identified. Gleason did not say what her role or title is when she was addressing staff.

[19:25:04]

AMY GLEASON, DOGE CHIEF: One thing that I've learned about joining the government is you get to work on really cool problems that affect all of Americans.

SERFATY: Gleason has kept a low profile, but has operated within the federal government for years, working for both Republican and Democratic presidents. Even recognized by the Obama administration with a Champions of Change Award, work which she spoke about in a 2020 TED Talk.

GLEASON: I always worked in the private industry, and I guess I just kind of always assumed that other people would take care of these government big problems. But I found after a year that nobody else is coming. It's up to us to solve these problems.

SERFATY: In the Trump administration, she led the creation of the national COVID database.

DEBORAH BIRX, FORMER WHITE HOUES COVID RESPONSE COORDINATOR: For the first time, every day, I can see every new admission across the country. And that has been extraordinarily important.

SERFATY: Working alongside former White House coronavirus response coordinator Deborah Birx as part of U.S. Digital Services or USDS, the agency that has become DOGE and that she will now lead.

A federal worker who has worked with Gleason in the past but is not authorized to speak on the record, describing Gleason as direct and to the point, super smart.

Gleason has her roots in healthcare and tech. A former nurse who says she ran into hurdles navigating the health care system when her own daughter was diagnosed with a rare autoimmune disorder.

GLEASON: This is one single year of Morgan's medical record not having the necessary information causes delays in diagnosis, misdiagnoses, burden on the patient and family, and stress on the doctors and nurses.

SERFATY: She says that fueled her work to build, implement and streamline electronic medical record technologies. In 2021, Gleason joined Russell street ventures, a firm founded by Brad Smith, now also a DOGE advisor, and then was pulled back into USGS, rejoining the federal government in December during the transition to the agency that she is, in theory, leading.

TRUMP: I signed an order creating the Department of Government Efficiency and put a man named Elon Musk in charge. (END VIDEOTAPE)

BURNETT: And, Sunlen, I mean, it's just so incredible to listen to her. We can now put, you know, comments and thoughts to the -- to the name and the face, but -- but there's so much confusion about what she's doing and when she got this -- this so-called title.

I mean, what do you know about when Gleason was officially given this title of administering DOGE?

SERFATY: Well, it's all really unclear, frankly, Erin. We've asked DOGE. We've reached out to Gleason. We've gotten no response. No clarity on when this move happened.

She had been -- sources tell me, working with USDS since December. People had seen her in the office, and they just assumed she was taking part in the transition. And to reiterate, when she led that meeting last Tuesday here in D.C., it was unclear what her title was, what her role was. Notably, no one in the meeting asked. It did not come up, they say in the sports -- the source I talked to, though, notably said that they don't believe it matters in the end, what her title really is, because at least in this persons opinion, it is really Elon Musk, they believe, who is calling the shots.

BURNETT: Yeah, well, that appears to be true. But it is incredible that, you know, they wouldn't tell us who this person was. And, you know, who's supposed to at least be doing this administrative work.

Sunlen, thank you so much. I mean, for -- for all of that and really getting to hear her is important for all of us.

And next, Elon Musk stepping up his attacks on judges tonight, now demanding that those who rule against Trump should be impeached. We got a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee to respond to that next.

Plus, from giant gold statues of Trump to money falling from the sky, Trump posting a frankly unhinged A.I. generated video of what he says Gaza is going to look like.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:33:06]

BURNETT: Tonight, a Trump, a top Trump DOJ nominee refusing to definitively say that the president has to comply with court orders.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AARON REITZ, NOMINEE TO LEAD DOJ'S OFFICE OF LEGAL POLICY: There is no hard and fast rule about whether in some, in every instance, a public official is bound by a court decision, there are some instances in which he or she may lawfully be bound, and other instances in which he or she may not lawfully be bound.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BURNETT: Well, that answer, you know, has to make you scratch your head. And it did alarm some on the committee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ALEX PADILLA (D-CA): I can't remember a time in history when, of all the nominees, Department of Justice, high ranking Department of Justice officials, not adamantly defending the balance of power, co- equal branches of government, the checks and balances built into the Constitution is telling of the political times that were living in, and alarming.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: All right, the senator you just saw there, Alex Padilla from California, and he is with me now.

Senator, so, you know, you questioned Trump's DOJ nominees at that hearing today. What do you make when someone says to you and very clearly, right, it was very, very clear, very black and white. There is no hard and fast rule about whether in every instance a public official is bound by a court decision. How do you -- how do you stomach that?

PADILLA: Yeah. Well, good to be back with you, Erin. First of all, that's the purpose of raising these questions during these confirmation hearings, because sadly, this isn't the first time we've gotten an answer like that. It's very similar to the answers we've gotten from the attorney general nominee, who's now the attorney general, the deputy attorney general nominee who's about to be confirmed from the now FBI director, Kash Patel, and so on down the line within the Department of Justice.

So we raise it for the publics awareness because they should be alarmed, not just members of Congress, but number two, it just -- it boggles the mind that of all the departments and agencies, the Department of Justice, which requires its independence to do its job responsibly and appropriately, is the very department that whose leadership is not clearly standing up for its independence, as I mentioned in the committee.

[19:35:29]

The balance of powers, the equal branches of government, the checks and balances that the Founding Fathers envisioned in the Constitution.

BURNETT: So Trump's pick for solicitor general says he thinks Trump will do the right thing when confronted with a court decision. So, you know, he was asked specifically about, you know, these concerns that Trump will defy court orders. And here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

D. JOHN SAUER, TRUMP'S PICK FOR SOLICITOR GENERAL: I've represented President Trump for the better part of two years, and I just think that that's not a plausible scenario. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: I mean, you know, Trump had tweeted the other day, right? You know, that, you know, he does something for the services of his country, breaks no laws.

So do you believe it when that solicitor general pick there says its not a plausible scenario to think Trump would defy an order?

PADILLA: The answer is no. I mean, and it's not just disappointing, it's enraging.

Look, I've had a chance to not just question these nominees in committee as a member of the judiciary committee. I've made it a point to meet with each of them in my office and ask these questions beforehand. And they keep doing their best to duck, to dodge, to avoid answering the question directly when they point to, well, that's just a hypothetical, or he's never done that to me. He would never do that to me.

I tell them, this is not hypothetical. In fact, he did it repeatedly in his first term as president. Just ask Jeff Sessions, even Jeff Sessions. As much as I disagreed with his policies and approaches, had the ethics and the resolve to say instead of violating the law and not being faithful to the Constitution, I would rather resign than do what Donald Trump is telling me.

These new rounds of nominees, in his second administration can't even do that.

BURNETT: So Elon Musk has now said that he wants to punish judges who rule against Trump. He posted, if any judge anywhere can block every presidential order everywhere. We don't have democracy. We have tyranny of the judiciary.

You know, in that sense, you know, referring to what he says is an activist judiciary. What do you say to him?

PADILLA: Yeah. Well, first of all, he's wrong. But sadly, I'm not shocked. You know, for all their talk about fraud and abuse, you know, this -- this administration is the fraud. And what we're seeing is their abuse of power.

I mean, just a couple of several a couple of months ago, when you talk when you we were up on the deadline to pass a spending plan for the current fiscal year. There was a plan, a bipartisan agreement on the floor of the House of Representatives. And Elon Musk chimed in, saying, anybody that doesn't go along with what President Trump wants will get primaried. We'll fund them, et cetera.

Over the last couple of months, as confirmation hearings have taken place and nominees have come up for votes in the Senate, the same threats by Elon Musk, we will primary you if you don't fall in line with Donald Trump. And I will put the money behind it. And now, it's judges that are in the crosshairs of Elon Musk. This is what happens when the richest president in history brings in

the richest man in the world to do his dirty work of shredding government -- federal government in the hopes of saving money. And here's the real agenda behind at the end of the day, Erin, they're doing all this to try to find the money to underwrite tax breaks for billionaires. If that's not a conflict of interest, I don't know what is.

BURNETT: So, so and you talk about judges, but it's not just judges, it's lawyers. I mean, President Trump has, you know, knows that there's lawyers now representing former special counsel Jack Smith. And so Trump now has signed a memo, Senator, which I'm sure you may be aware of this and there's so much happening here every moment, but suspending the security clearances of Smith's lawyers.

So that they sign on to represent him. Trump says, well, then there goes your security clearance. And the Republicans have made it clear they intend to investigate Smith's work on the Trump cases, right? So -- so that's why he needs lawyers.

How concerned are you about this? If someone signs on to defend Jack Smith and the president rescinds their security clearance.

PADILLA: Yeah. Look, it's an absolute abuse of power, as I just mentioned, but as -- as, not surprised as I am that this is the conduct of Donald Trump. As not surprised as I am as at who he has selected to serve in his cabinet and other leadership positions.

Here's the biggest disappointment and wake up of all. Where are the Republicans in Congress? Where are the Republicans in the Senate? Are they going to stand up for the constitution and their oath of office, or at least the interest of their own constituents, or continue to be want to be more loyal to Donald Trump above all else?

BURNETT: All right. Senator Padilla, I appreciate your time.

[19:40:02]

And thank you very much, sir.

PADILLA: Thank you.

BURNETT: And Trump has posted a bizarre A.I. generated video. It depicts Gaza as a luxury resort, but really, it also stands out in here is, you know, the Trump Gaza and these golden statues of Trump everywhere.

And we'll take you inside North Korea tonight. This is an incredible story. North Korea in the midst of all this, the U.S. siding with North Korea on a U.N. resolution is now trying to court Americans.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: Tonight, Trump Gaza. That is what President Donald Trump is posting. He's posting an A.I.-generated video on Truth Social, where he's lounging by a pool, worshiped as a golden god. [19:45:05]

Elon Musk is making it rain, dollar bills and people all over the world watching this have been stunned.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)

BURNETT: The post came after Trump had said, you know, the U.S. should take over the Gaza Strip permanently and relocate 2 million Palestinians.

OUTFRONT now, Jack O'Donnell, the former president and chief operating officer of Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino, which was the focus of his book, "Trumped".

And, you know, you see those casinos, they're all very familiar to you in this A.I. generated video.

Jack, let me just share some screenshots of the video, right? Because it's filled with this golden imagery of Trump, who loves gold, right? And he, you, me, many who have, you know, seen him in his office and it's all -- all gold, gold and balloon in the shape of his head, the golden statue. You know, you worked with him starting all the way back in 1987, and you know him well. Is -- is he serious about this?

JACK O'DONNELL, FORMER PRESIDENT AND CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER OF TRUMP PLAZA HOTEL & CASINO: Well, Erin, you and I have seen him do some in the public, have seen him do some pretty outrageous things on social media. And I have to say, no, he's not serious about this. I think he's amused by it. And I think he knows it would get a reaction from people. And that's what he wanted to do here.

I mean, as two of your guests said, this is theater. And, you know, I don't think he's serious, although I think he does love the image that it portrays of him as some sort of savior, and, you know, but seriousness is hard to take here. I mean, my gosh, there were bearded belly dancers in this video, so I don't know how serious anybody could take -- on the -- I mean, obviously. Nobody -- well, nobody should think that's what its going to look like. That's ridiculous.

But the -- the -- the lyrics here, that we're looking at are Donalds coming to set you free, bringing the light for all to see. No more tunnels, no more fear. Trump Gaza is finally here, and you know the context though, is he posted the other day, this, you know, this image of himself depicted as a king, a fake, you know, long live the king there.

And then you've got these golden statues in here. And the golden statue stood out to me, Jack, because it reminded me of that, that statue that had stood of the long term dictator of Turkmenistan, which was put up and rotated every day to face the sun.

And that was real. That was an A.I. that was real. I mean, when you've known him for decades and you know, you know that everything is about putting his name on things. But this -- this new focus on king golden god, golden statues, what does all this add up to? O'DONNELL: Well, I mean, its what he would like to be -- it's who he

sees himself as, and others have done this. Other dictators, Mao did it. Kim Jong Un still does it.

Saddam Hussein, the list goes on, of dictators that have put themselves on a pedestal. And so he sees himself that way. And he, you know, you know, quite frankly, it's -- it's -- it's scary and, you know, and one thing but it's also comical because this is the United States.

But -- but -- but look, the thing that surprised me most about the video is that we know how vain he is. And there's actually a scene in here where he's sitting on the beach, as you mentioned, and he's rather rotund in it. But as someone else said today, the golden statues won out over --

(CROSSTALK)

BURNETT: Over that image of him and Netanyahu sitting. And you're right, it's deeply unflattering, A.I. generated, I'll say, but, you know, they -- they airbrushed the statue. Yeah.

So, you know, in terms of Jack, I want to ask you also about DOGE because it's so central here now to this entire administration, right? It is his -- it is his launch pin pad. It is what he is starting with.

And you have worked with him, obviously. And you, you know, overhauling smaller workforces, overseeing building out casinos. So you've seen him operate as a manager, right, in this role where he's now coming in and saying he's going to cut $1 trillion with Musk and DOGE from the federal government.

What strikes you about that, looking at a person that you have known as a manager for so many decades?

O'DONNELL: Well, first off, he thinks he doesn't think about the consequences of any action that he takes. And as a manager, it just shows that he, quite frankly, really isn't a good manager.

[19:50:02]

I mean, I had a very similar situation where at one point he said, you need to cut 20 percent of your staff across the board.

And I said, well, that's impossible. And he said, no, do it. And I said, well, Donald, first off, if I did it, we would be out of compliance and they would shut us down.

And second, we wouldn't be able to maximize our revenue during peak periods. He just didn't get that there was a consequence to this, you know, absurd direction. And he's doing that again.

And I think the atomic, the people who take care of our weapons, you know, we had to bring those people back because he didn't think forward about what if they're not here to protect our nuclear weapons? I mean, it's the same Donald Trump. BURNETT: All right. Well, Jack, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

O'DONNELL: Thank you, Erin. Good to see you.

BURNETT: All right. You, too.

And next, we're going to take you inside North Korea where children are dancing in front of giant screens showing missiles. And this is all now you think, you know, at the U.N., the U.S., North Korea on the same side of this U.N. resolution. And now in North Korea, this full court press to court American tourists.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:55:49]

BURNETT: Tonight, North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un making a visit to a military academy, telling students to up their game. And in response, soldiers literally flipping for Kim. It comes as North Korea opens its doors to Western tourists for the first time in five years.

And Will Ripley is OUTFRONT.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At first glance, this could be any elementary school recital until you notice the backdrop.

MIKE O'KENNEDY, BRITISH YOUTUBER: It's not until moments where you see a group of seven year old children doing synchronized dancing in front of a giant, you know, LED screen showing missiles, you know, blowing up boats, you know, and its like, oh, yeah, I'm in -- I'm in North Korea.

RIPLEY: British travel influencer Mike O'Kennedy, one of the first western tourists to visit North Korea since before the pandemic. State controlled Western tourism is making a limited return to Rason, an isolated region near China and Russia.

O'KENNEDY: One of the most interesting parts for me was that, you know, given the fact that tourists haven't been allowed in for five years, there was a sense of isolation in the air.

RIPLEY: Strict COVID-19 protocols kept already isolated, North Korea even more sealed off from the world.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But there seems to be a rumor that COVID-19 got into the country via a balloon sent from South Korea that was infected with COVID-19.

RIPLEY: Bizarre theories aside, American tour guide Justin Martell says COVID paranoia is still everywhere. And yet, despite five years of near total isolation, North Koreans aren't entirely in the dark.

JUSTIN MARTELL, AMERICAN TOUR GUIDE: So they're aware that Donald Trump is now the president once again. And they are aware of the fact that talks broke down, last time, during the first Trump presidency. So when I asked the question, would you like, Kim Jong Un and Donald Trump to meet again? The response I got was, if Kim Jong Un wants to do it, then, of course, we support it.

RIPLEY: He says traveling to the secret state is not for everyone. Sightseeing feels more like a school field trip. Itineraries are tightly controlled. Unauthorized photos are forbidden.

But any glimpse of the hermetically sealed nation is social media gold.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am in North Korea.

RIPLEY: Which may explain why so many social media influencers are snatching up seats.

Ever since the death of American college student Otto Warmbier in 2017, the U.S. State Department has banned American tourists from visiting North Korea. But that's not stopping some from trying.

WENDY ARBEIT, AMERICAN EXTREME TRAVELER: I do have a U.S. passport, and I also have a German passport, so that was my ticket in.

RIPLEY: American Wendy Arbeit calls herself an extreme traveler. North Korea is her 195th country.

So how does North Korea stack up?

ARBEIT: It was definitely one of the more unusual places to go. You know, I have to be honest, I was surprised how good the food was. They were very lavish in the food that they gave us. There was a flaming snail that was brought to me and I was like, I don't know what to do with this, but it's cool.

RIPLEY: The United Nations says nearly half of North Koreas population is undernourished. For them, flaming snail is almost certainly not on the menu. But for western influencers, a country sealed off from the world is the ultimate feast for content.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BURNETT: It's fascinating. Will, that report and also they're -- they're savvy to even use influencers. I mean, what -- what are they trying to do with that? I mean, will those influencers actually influence people to come to North Korea?

RIPLEY: Don't know. I mean, it seems like these tours are now selling out fast, and some American influencers that don't have a dual passport already are spending huge money to get them.

There is one, a YouTube influencer, very famous, spending almost $200,000 for a Spanish passport I'm told.

The tour guide that we interviewed, he got a passport from Saint Kitts. He's never actually been there. But if you spend $250,000 now, that's the price because of the Russia-Ukraine war and all the Russians trying to up these second passports so they can travel, you can get you can become a dual citizen and then you can travel visa free to Russia with a Saint Kitts passport and also to North Korea as well.

BURNETT: That is incredible. I was sort of stunned. My mouth was open. I'm thinking, wow, you'd pay $250,000 to do that.

Wow. All right. Well, thank you so much.

And thanks, of course, as always to all of you for being with us.

It's time now for "AC360" with Anderson Cooper.