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Erin Burnett Outfront
Trump Says He Trusts Putin Not To "Violate His Word"; Hours Away: Trump's First Post-Election Face-To-Face With Zelenskyy; NY Governor: "Forget What DOGE Says -- New York Wants You"; Actor Gene Hackman, His Wife And Dog Found Dead In Home. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired February 27, 2025 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:40]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
Breaking news, in Putin he trusts. The president saying the Russian president would not violate a deal to end the war in Ukraine, as Trump is about to sit down with Zelenskyy in just hours.
Plus, New York Governor Kathy Hochul on her promise to hire federal workers who have been fired by Trump. She's our guest.
And new breaking details on the investigation into the mysterious death of actor Gene Hackman, his wife and their dog. As we have new video tonight of one of the last times Hackman was seen alive.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news, Zelenskyy and Trump face to face. The president of Ukraine tonight on his way to Washington for a high stakes meeting with President Trump, the first time that the two will meet since Trump's reelection.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're working very hard to get that war brought to an end. I think we've made a lot of progress. I think it's moving along pretty rapidly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: For Trump, the deal includes a deal regarding Ukraine's prized rare earth minerals. One of Trump's top economic advisers saying that that deal could net $20 billion, which $20 billion is $20 billion. Whatever you think of the merits of the deal still compared to the U.S. budget, it's nothing. We're talking about less than one third of 1 percent of a nearly $7 trillion budget.
But this is what Trump wanted. And as the former foreign minister of Ukraine told us the other day, there was zero chance Ukraine wasn't going to do that deal because it had no choice. And Trump says that when it comes down to it, when it comes down to
it, on this deal, he trusts Vladimir Putin to keep his word on ending the war in Ukraine.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Mr. President, would you be willing to do if Vladimir Putin did not stick to the terms of any deal on Ukraine?
TRUMP: If you know what?
REPORTER: If he did not stick to the terms of any deal on Ukraine?
TRUMP: I've known him for a long time now, and I think he will. I don' believe he's going to violate his word.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: This is a hugely significant thing to say, of course. And the question looming over this is why? Why would Trump trust Putin to not violate his word?
And why is this such a crucial question? Because here are the facts on Putin and agreements.
In 1996, Russia had a peace agreement with Chechnya. Three years later, Putin, prime minister of Russia, ordered Russian troops to invade in violation of that deal.
Or take Georgia. There was a ceasefire between Georgia and Russia throughout the 1990s. Putin is the one who broke that cease fire, sending his troops in to invade Georgia in 2008.
And now, Trump trusts Putin to keep his word, to just take, I guess, some parts of Eastern Ukraine which are burned to the ground and littered with mines and just walk away and never touch Ukraine again. He trusts him?
And Putin invaded Ukraine in 2014, seized Crimea, agreed to the Minsk agreements and then went ahead and continued to fight Ukraine in the Donbas for years. And then that full scale invasion in 2022, when Putin said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): The Soviet government created Soviet Ukraine. This is well known to everyone. Until then, there was never any Ukraine in the history of humanity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)(
BURNETT: Never any Ukraine in the history of humanity. I mean, that says it all.
But then there's this before the start of the 2022 full scale invasion, Putin published an article claiming Russia was robbed of its historical lands. He went on to write that the Russians and Ukrainians are, quote, one people.
So if anybody trusts Putin on his word, maybe they should listen to those words which he has said and written again and again, even handing out a document, laying out how Ukraine is part of Russia to every soldier in Russia in the summer before his invasion of Ukraine.
But Trump today says he trusts Putin to keep his word, this time because some American workers might be at rare earth mineral sites in Ukraine. Why?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I also have a very good relationship, as you know, with President Putin.
I knew Putin very well. I got along with him, actually, great.
Putin is a nicer person than I am.
So now I like Putin. Now, Putin called me a genius, by the way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So he's putting all of that at more value than Putin's track record on breaking deals and what he has said, his word about Ukraine being part of Russia.
Trump has also pushed Putin's propaganda, like claiming Zelenskyy is a dictator.
[19:05:02]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: A dictator without elections. Zelenskyy better move fast or he's not going to have a country left.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: A dictator. He said it. He was very clear.
Yet today, one very interesting thing happened on this dictator front. Just listen to Trump's response when he was asked about those comments, when he called Zelenskyy a dictator.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Did I say that? I can't believe I said that.
Next question.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: That's a trademark Trump moment, right? It's hard to know if he's pretending not to remember. Pretty much impossible. It's gotten so much coverage, whether he's trying to be facetious about it. Whatever it is, a few hours later after that that I just played you, this moment caught our attention.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think we're going to have a very good meeting tomorrow morning. We're going to get along really well. Okay. We have a lot of respect. I have a lot of respect for him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: A lot of respect for him. Trump clearly softening his stance when it comes to Zelenskyy. The big question on that, of course, is why?
Jeff Zeleny is OUTFRONT live outside the White House.
And you know, Jeff, that was a very clear shift in tone from the president talking about Zelenskyy, right, who he has spoken of in incredibly derogatory and demeaning terms in recent days.
What we just heard, there was a shift from that. What's behind that seeming shift?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Erin, it's the simple. It's a president who wants to make a deal. And President Trump is on the eve of making a deal here with Ukraine to share some of those minerals. The details of this deal are still coming together. I'm told the fine print is still being worked out.
But there is no question, President Zelenskyy is in route. He will be here within hours. And the point here to all of this is throughout the day, throughout the week really, longtime allies of the U.S. from French President Emmanuel Macron on Monday, to British Prime Minister Keir Starmer here today trying to awaken the American president to look at the history here, to sort of focus on the alliances and to sort of pull him a little bit away from Vladimir Putin.
It was clear today, in very stark terms, sitting in the Oval Office and then later in the east room. President Trump says that he believes Vladimir Putin, he trusts him. So that's where this begins. As far as Zelenskyy, he wants to make a deal tomorrow. He wants to have, you know, really preside over what would be one of the biggest shifts in American foreign policy in modern history, if not more, you know, signing this deal with the Ukraine, the invaded country, not the aggressor, but the words of Keir Starmer there talking about winning the peace, essentially begging the U.S. president for some type of security guarantee.
The only guarantee, really, that we know of is that rare earths mineral deal. The president said, we'll be digging. We'll be digging. He said the American interests there could help protect Ukraine.
But, Erin, in the history you laid out is clear, that is the backdrop for this meeting tomorrow. It certainly will be a historic one -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Jeff Zeleny. And let's go now to Leon Panetta, former defense secretary, former CIA
director, and retired Admiral James Stavridis, former NATO supreme allied commander.
Secretary Panetta, Trump says of Putin, I've known him for a long time now. I don't believe he's going to violate his word.
Of course, we laid out some of his words that there's never been any Ukraine in the history of humanity. And Russians and Ukrainians are one people, but those aren't the words that Trump's referring to. He's referring to -- if Putin says he'll stay out of Ukraine, he'll stay out of Ukraine. Is Trump right to trust him?
LEON PANETTA, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY: You know, Erin, as CIA director, I had an awful lot of intelligence on Putin and his background, and his trustworthiness. And the bottom line is that it was clear that we could never trust Putin's word. You've -- you've basically laid out how many times he's violated his word.
And I think its important for the president, and I understand he's trying to get Putin to the table, but he has got to know that Putin is not trustworthy and that anything he does has to be verified. I recommend he take Reagan's position, which is trust, but verify.
BURNETT: Admiral Stavridis, there was a speech in November that Putin gave. He was talking about his overall view here, which is a new world order, and the end of unipolarity, right, which was referring to the West, but also specifically the United States, which you hear, you know, people who speak to, you know, Russian soldiers on the front lines. It's about the West. It's about the United States.
And those, again, are words from Putin, right?
[19:10:01]
A new world order where the U.S. isn't on top of it.
So do you think he's going to accept a peace deal in that context and not violate his word?
ADM. JAMES STAVRIDIS (RET.), CNN SENIOR MILITARY ANALYST: I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him. And I'm with Secretary Panetta, one of my great bosses and mentors. Good to be on with you, sir.
I have two points to make very quickly. Number one, you need to find some levers to put over Putin. So tell him the day you reinvade is the day we bring Ukraine into NATO, or the day you re-invade is the day U.S. troops will join the French and the British in Ukraine, or the day you invade is the day there is an absolute ironclad, no fly zone for Russian forces over Ukraine.
You need to put some levers in play there in order to make sure he hews to his word, because, as you pointed out, and as the secretary has said, he is not to be trusted.
BURNETT: Secretary, you know, boots on the ground mentioned there by -- by Admiral Stavridis, the prime minister of the U.K. who Trump met with today, said the U.K. is ready to put his words boots on the ground and planes in the air, their own to enforce a peace deal. Where, of course, if there's any sort of conflict right then that's against a NATO power that that -- that's a direct violation.
Trump has not agreed to do the same, right? Obviously, as we understand it at this point, there are no security -- formal security guarantees in this deal whatsoever. Do you think the U.S., though, should be doing this? Boots on the ground, planes in the air.
PANETTA: I -- I think the United States, uh, has been an ally with our NATO friends since World War II. And we have worked in a unified way to try to support Ukraine in this war. And I think the United States ought to be part and parcel of any agreement to be able to provide a security assurance to make sure that Ukraine is protected from the kind of invasion that we've seen from Russia.
So, I -- I really do believe that the United States ought to be willing to participate in any kind of united NATO force that will assure the security of Ukraine.
BURNETT: Admiral, do you agree?
STAVRIDIS: I 100 percent do. I'll make another point, which is, it could be boots on the ground, but I think a better way to think of it would be to put, French and British boots on the ground. But the U.S. provides cyber security. We provide the intelligence, we provide the logistics. We provide the flow of information and goods that support it.
We can be the back office for this thing. And here's the good news. There's an enormous U.S. military command, which I was privileged to command under Secretary Panetta, U.S. European Command, in place, thousands of U.S. troops. They can be that backstop and that back office. That's the way to set this up.
BURNETT: Secretary Panetta, quickly before we go, I just want to give you a chance to confirm. I believe you've signed with four other former secretaries of defense, a letter calling on Congress to hold hearings immediately on Trump's firing of the head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and other senior military leaders. What do you think needs to be investigated?
PANETTA: Well, look, the secretaries of defense, we understand that if you want the right kind of military leadership to be able to guide our forces, that they have to be experienced, that they have to have combat experience, that they have to be people who have a distinguished record in the military and that they have to be apolitical. And to dismiss the key military leadership that we've had for no other reason but that they were members of the prior administration, creates a sense that from now on, military leaders are going to be judged politically rather than based on their military experience.
So it's for that reason that the secretaries of defense feel that there have to be hearings to oversee just exactly what took place and what standard this administration is going to use.
BURNETT: Secretary, Director Panetta, thank you very much. Admiral Stavridis, I appreciate both of you very much.
And next, we have some breaking news just coming in as were speaking here. A federal judge just ruling that thousands of the mass firings by Trump are likely unlawful. This is just coming into OUTFRONT. We're going to give you the details on that, exactly what it means in terms of the firings at this very moment going on.
Plus, pay up. That's what New York's governor is telling Trump tonight, saying he owes New York state $15 billion from the federal coffers.
[19:15:04]
Why? Governor Kathy Hochul is next.
And grim details emerging tonight about the mysterious circumstances surrounding the death of actor Gene Hackman and his wife, as we have new video tonight and OUTFRONT of one of the last times Hackman was seen alive.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: All right. Breaking news, a federal judge just ruling that the Trump administration's mass firing of probationary employees was likely unlawful. A moment of relief for the thousands of workers who had been fired by Trump's sweeping cuts, many of them probationary, which just meant that they had only worked there for less than two years or had been promoted in less than two years before.
[19:20:03]
The judge writing that the Office of Personnel Management, quote, does not have any authority whatsoever under any statute in the history of the universe -- that's a quote -- in the history of the universe to hire or fire any employees but its own.
Katelyn Polantz is OUTFRONT joining us live on the phone with this breaking news.
Katelyn, I just, you know, words like that from a judge stand out. And nothing in the history of the universe would provide precedent for this. Does that stand out to you? And what more does the judge say that does stand out to you?
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): It does stand out. And this case stands out, Erin, this is a different situation than we are seeing in a lot of other cases. There's maybe a dozen or so protesting the firings of employees at the federal government.
This one in particular is about unions going to court and saying the Office of Personnel Management looks to be the office that is telling agencies across the government, this is how were firing probationary employees on behalf of Donald Trump's agenda, probationary employees, they're not on probation for their jobs. They're actually just serving in that role for a shorter amount of time. So they don't have more of the tenured protections of long term federal workers.
Thousands of them have been fired at lots of different agencies. And what the unions argue to this judge is that they're arguing specifically about the office of personnel management involvement. So they're not arguing against the agencies that did the firings. And they're arguing to the judge, OPM should not have this authority. Congress gave the agencies themselves the authority here to determine whether or not people should keep their jobs as federal workers or not.
And the judge has already gotten a little bit of evidence. He got a sworn statement from the director of OPM, Charles Ezell, who is saying, we didn't make this implementation. We just gave guidance to the agencies. But the judge here is making this temporary decision at least, saying, well, if OPM did it, that's not right. That's going to be unlawful. And this is a pretty significant finding today.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Katelyn Polantz, thank you very much. Appreciate that.
So now let's go OUTFRONT to the Democratic governor of New York, Kathy Hochul.
And, Governor, so much to talk to you about, but obviously this is an issue now at the center of things for New York, too, because you had been saying that you wanted to hire federal workers who perhaps had been part of this purge.
So what's your reaction when you hear this federal judge saying that what OPM is doing, at least at this point, in those mass firings of workers who had only been in their jobs for 1 or 2 years, right, shorter term, is unlawful?
GOV. KATHY HOCHUL (D), NEW YORK: Two reactions. One is I'm not surprised. And number two, thank god we have a judiciary as a check on the overreach of power that were witnessing by the hour, by Donald Trump and Elon Musk.
So yes, this is an important decision that says you went too far, but I think we'll be seeing a lot more cases where the judges say this has never happened in the history of the universe, and this is the new world we're in. They don't believe in laws. They don't believe in the system of government we have. They don't believe in states rights. They're just like bulldozing through it all. And thank God there's a judge who stood up to them today.
BURNETT: Well, I mean, the words do stand out, never any statute in the history of the universe, big statement to say, I suppose, but that's an existential question.
All right. So you also posted and this is what I wanted to get at, you posted in part, forget what DOGE says, New York wants you, all right, caps on -- on the "you". And, you know, I spoke this week to one of those probationary workers
who worked at Bronx Veterans Hospital. His name is Luke Graziani, a 20-year veteran, four tours in Iraq and Afghanistan fired from his job at the Bronx Hospital on Valentine's Day. Goes in at 8:00 a.m. has the email. You're gone.
And he had five weeks until he wasn't probationary, right. So it's just very capricious in terms of how it happened, and let me just play some of what he said about what happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SGT. LUKE GRAZIANI (RET.), U.S. ARMY VETERAN FIRED FROM VETERANS AFFAIRS HOSPITAL IN NYC: It's surreal to think that had this come five weeks later, I would have had no issues whatsoever. I'm very privileged to have the job that I have or had.
BURNETT: Yeah.
GRAZIANI: I very much like to get back to it. I think no one, no one deserves a job. But if they're willing to, you know, raise their right hand and swear the oath and become a federal service employee. I think that they have every right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So when you post, you know, forget what DOGE says. New York wants you. What does that mean for Luke?
HOCHUL: What that means is this: this administration loves to say you're fired because they think they're living in a game show. Once again, this is not a silly game called the apprentice. These are real peoples lives. People like Luke, who works hard, he lives in queens. He thought he had a job taking care of veterans, and he's a veteran himself. He served in Iraq, in Afghanistan four times.
These are the heroes. You know what they get from this administration instead of thank you for your service, they get you're fired.
[19:25:04]
So I said, these are the people you want to be part of our state workforce. So not you're fired, but you're hired.
So we set up a database. We wanted people to take a look at it. We have a shortage of state workers. We need more people to work. We need people that work in it. We need people who want to be guards.
We want to -- we have people that can work in so many areas, but we respect public service in our state. We don't denigrate it and treat these people like they're nothing, and collateral damage to the buzzsaw of Elon Musk.
This has to stop. But not only that, but they're providing services to our seniors and taking care of programs. They keep people safe. They keep our skies safe. They're researching ways to solve for bird flu. They're helping us find cures for cancer.
We have to honor their service. And right here in the state of New York, that's exactly what we plan to do.
BURNETT: All right. So, let me ask you about some protests here in New York. And I know you've been obviously in the city all day. There were protesters demanding you use your powers, which you have as the governor, to remove New York Mayor Eric Adams from office.
One sign you see there, Governor Hochul fire him. Shame on you, Mayor Adams. And another one says claims Adams is Trump's puppet.
And look, these are protests that came just a few days after you said you weren't going to do that at the time you had the option. You said, I'm not going to, to get rid of him, even amidst all of this consternation that he is doing Trump's bidding on immigration in exchange for those charges being dropped, he denies that that is a quid pro quo.
But when you see these protests, you think about this situation. Do you have any regrets? Think you should have gotten rid of him?
HOCHUL: No. People know this about me. There are often pressure campaigns to try to get me to do something I don't want to do. It always backfires. I will stand up to protest when I believe I'm doing something that is right for the people of this state.
And in this case, it is an extraordinary power that a governor has to be able to say, I think you violated the public trust and you should go. What I'm basically doing is overturning the will of New Yorkers who selected the mayor to govern the city. And I am trying to put in safeguards so people have a better sense.
BURNETT: Now, if there weren't primaries in June, would you feel differently? You only have a few months.
HOCHUL: We have primaries in June, but also, overturning an election, unlike what the Trump administration would do. I have to respect the rule of law. I respect our democracy.
But I'm keeping an eye on this. I understand the protest, I really do. I know why they're frustrated and they're worried about undue influence from the Trump administration, who's trying so hard, trying so hard to tell me what to do, tell the mayor what to do, try to tell all of us what to do. But we have to stand up to him now more than ever and say, no, you're not going to boss us around. We're New Yorkers.
BURNETT: Are you going to win on the congestion pricing? I mean, you went in, you made a presentation. You said you put it in his language.
And -- and he says he wants to end the congestion pricing, which has reduced traffic. You have Broadway sales up, you have foot traffic up. You have businesses doing better. I mean, you've got numbers on your side.
HOCHUL: Yes, we do.
BURNETT: He said he doesn't care.
HOCHUL: It's extraordinary to me that the president of the United States, who has a lot of other things on his plate, is focused on the governor's traffic policies in the city of New York. I mean, go focus on something else.
This is for us to determine. This is part of our self-determination as states. This is voted on by duly elected representatives of the people of New York. And you can't overturn it without a fight for me. And that's what we're heading into. I believe we'll be successful in the courts and we'll see what happens after that.
If they want to work with me on helping fund new architecture or new infrastructure, let's do Penn Station. Let's do the Second Avenue Subway, let's do the inter-borough express, which will connect Queens and Brooklyn for the first time. I've got so many great ideas that they can work with me on.
But don't shut down something that's working just because you want to. Come on. Its working. The data proves it. And the people of New York, many who hated it at first, are coming around saying life is better here now.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Governor Hochul, very much appreciate your time. And thank you so much.
HOCHUL: Thank you.
BURNETT: Governor Hochul from New York.
And next, the mysterious circumstances surrounding the deaths of Oscar winner Gene Hackman and his wife. Police are now saying they actually had been mummified, as we are now hearing the frantic 911 call at their discovery.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DISPATCHER: Are they moving at all?
CARETAKER: No, they're not moving.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BURNETT: Plus, pro-Trump online influencers who have been charged with human trafficking in Romania, just landing in Florida. Why are they here?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:34:03]
BURNETT: Breaking news, you're looking at video of one of the last times Oscar winner Gene Hackman, a known recluse in recent years, was seen in public as we're learning new details this hour about the circumstances surrounding his death. His front door open, scattered pills on the bathroom countertop, one dog dead in the closet, two still alive on the property. Ninety-five-year-old Hackman and his wife, a 63-year-old classical pianist, their German shepherd dog, all of them tonight, mysteriously dead. And police right now have ruling -- ruling out a carbon monoxide leak.
This frantic 911 call captured the moment they were found.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DISPATCHER: Are they moving at all?
CARETAKER: No, they're not moving.
Just send somebody out here really quick.
DISPATCHER: Okay. My units are on their way, okay?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BURNETT: So, Josh Campbell is there outside Hackman Santa Fe home right now with more of the stunning details surrounding these deaths.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GENE HACKMAN, ACTOR: I don't have a lot of fears. I have the normal fear of -- of passing away.
[19:35:02]
You know, I guess we all think about that.
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tonight, an investigation is underway into the death of two-time Oscar winner Gene Hackman.
SHERIFF ADAN MENDOZA, SANTA FE COUNTY: They're going to work this case. They're going to look at every aspect, and figure out, try to figure out the exact cause. And again, I think the autopsy is going to be key and the toxicology. But again, in my experience, you know, that that could take a while.
CAMPBELL: The 95-year-old Hollywood icon was found dead Wednesday inside his New Mexico home, along with his 65-year-old wife, Betsy Arakawa, and a dog, according to officials -- circumstances which the Santa Fe County sheriffs office called suspicious enough in nature to require a thorough search and investigation.
MENDOZA: It's concerning that every -- every -- everyone in the house, including the dog, is deceased.
CAMPBELL: Deputies were called to Hackmans house on a welfare check request made by two maintenance workers, according to a search warrant.
CARETAKER: No, they're not moving. Just send somebody up here really quick.
CAMPBELL: Inside, deputies found the couples' bodies in different rooms and say they appeared to have been there for some time.
Hackman in a mudroom, his wife in a bathroom near a space heater with an open prescription bottle on the counter and pills scattered around.
Deputies say she had obvious signs of death and body decomposition. Two healthy dogs were also found on the property, with a third found dead near Arakawa's body.
Officials did not find any signs of forced entry, and the fire department and gas company didn't find any obvious signs of a gas leak or carbon monoxide.
A sheriff's office spokesperson says the cause of death has not been confirmed, but it is not believed to be foul play.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CAMPBELL (on camera): And here in Santa Fe, sheriff's department officials are working behind me, have yet another high profile death case on their hands. Erin, you and I covered at length the Alec Baldwin case, that fatal shooting on the set of the movie "Rust". This is the same investigative team that worked that case.
Now, we did get some new information tonight from sheriffs officials. We're told that an autopsy has been conducted on both Hackman as well as his wife. They say that initial findings note no external trauma to either individual. They say that carbon monoxide toxicology -- toxicology reports have been requested.
Finally, as sheriffs officials gather information, it's worth pointing out that this could take weeks or months before we know exactly what the cause of death is. That's because these medical examiner cases often take time in order to get to the root cause of these deaths -- Erin.
BURNETT: Wow. Incredible. The same team, though, from the Alec Baldwin case on the "Rust" -- on the "Rust" set.
All right. Thank you very much, Josh.
And joining me now is the TMZ executive producer Charles Latibeaudiere.
And, Charles, so TMZ, you know, you all have been breaking -- leading the breaking news on this story all day. So what more are you learning at this hour? I mean, this is an incredibly bizarre mystery.
CHARLES LATIBEAUDIERE, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, TMZ: Yeah, mystery, exactly, Erin.
You know, in the affidavit that the police filed to get their search warrants, they said that it -- and you actually heard it in Josh's report. They said that they called it suspicious. I agree with you. I think mysterious is probably a little more accurate right now, because there were so many things that they found when they went in there that that lead you down one path, but then it just doesn't add up.
You know, they say that next to Betsy's body was the space heater, and immediately you start thinking, oh, carbon monoxide. But they, you know, they brought out the fire department, the gas company. They don't find any evidence of that. But then this thing about the fact that we don't know right now how long they were both dead, because they said that the bodies were in state of decomposition, that there was mummification. So we may be talking several days that the bodies were there and -- and then going back and try and trace, trying to trace. What were the conditions in the house if it was three, four, five days ago? It's hard to determine what that is now that, you know, when they from the time that the police actually enter the house. It is really strange.
I will say, though, the one thing about the one dog being found dead, the dog that died was about 10 to 15 feet away from Betsy in a closet. And the other dog being alive, that was in the house, and another dog that was outside of the house, was alive. That, to me, definitely eliminates. Obviously, the fire department said this too, but it can't be. I would think, uh, carbon monoxide or a gas leak, because why would that one dog have survived that was inside the house, right?
BURNETT: Right, right. Exactly, because carbon monoxide would kill a dog as well, just the dog being shut in the closet for whatever reason. Of course. That's just horrible to contemplate that death.
LATIBEAUDIERE: Yeah.
BURNETT: Look, I know that you've had a chance at TMZ. You have spoken to Hackman's daughter. Now she's 63, about the exact same age as Hackman's wife.
And I know she told police that the family suspected carbon monoxide poisoning. That's the first headline we saw earlier today. But then, as you point out, police say that they have no traces of that, that that is that is not the path.
So when your team spoke with her, did she elaborate on why she thought that and what else did she share with you?
LATIBEAUDIERE: She didn't. She said that she thought that and that that was based on the initial findings of what they knew from law enforcement at that point, which was very limited, just that their bodies were found that they were both deceased and that one of the dogs was dead.
[19:40:14]
I get why, early this morning and we did speak to her very early this morning.
BURNETT: Yeah.
LATIBEAUDIERE: That she was thinking at that point that it must be carbon monoxide -- carbon monoxide poisoning. But again, as we just discussed, it doesn't add up to that now, and we've been -- we've been trying to get in touch with her to see if there's any more information they've gotten from law enforcement, but we have not heard back from her.
I don't think -- it doesn't add up to that at this point.
BURNETT: Yeah, yeah, it is though. You know, the word mysterious. I mean, it is really it's captured everyone to try to understand exactly what could have happened here.
Charles, thanks so much. Really appreciate you taking the time and coming on.
LATIBEAUDIERE: Yeah. Thanks, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Hackman built this remarkable career that he had, against all odds, abandoned by his father. Mother died in a fire. He and a longtime friend named Dustin Hoffman were even voted least likely to succeed by their classmates.
Jason Carroll is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HACKMAN: I don't like to talk about myself that much.
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Gene Hackman had a hard time watching himself on the big screen, but the same could not be said for audiences who helped to make him one of the greatest American actors to grace the silver screen.
HACKMAN: You got a stupid smile, you know that, pal?
CARROLL: Hackman was known as an actor's actor. "The New York Times" called him Hollywood's perfect everyman. That's because Hackman had that innate ability to embody every type of character he portrayed.
HACKMAN: We're going now. Goodbye.
CARROLL: Whether it was a narcotics detective, a bank robber, or a basketball coach, Hackman could make audiences see something authentic in his characters.
HACKMAN: You know, most people would kill to be treated like a god.
CARROLL: Hackman had a prolific career, though he got a late start to acting. Eugene Hackman was born January 30th, 1930, in California. His father ran a printing press. The family moved around a bit, finally settling in Illinois.
Hackman says a traumatic incident as an early teenager may have been the catalyst for his wanting to become an actor. It was the moment his father abandoned the family. He was playing in the street when he says he watched his father wave and drive away.
HACKMAN: I wasn't bitter. I was, you know, disappointed, certainly, hurt, you know. I don't think I was ever bitter. I loved him.
CARROLL: Hackman told "Vanity Fair": It was so precise. Maybe that's why I became an actor. I doubt I would have become so sensitive to human behavior if that hadn't happened to me as a child. If I hadn't realized how much one small gesture can mean.
Hackman lied about his age and joined the marines at 16, becoming a radio field operator. He worked odd jobs for years and didn't pursue acting until he was 30. His mother died before his movie career took off in a fire started by her own cigarette.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you always want to be an actor?
HACKMAN: Well, I did secretly. I didn't want to tell anybody because I was ashamed. I thought maybe that was that. That was something that lightweights did.
CARROLL: Hackman received a best supporting Oscar nomination for his part in "Bonnie and Clyde".
One of his toughest roles, portraying a New York city detective in "The French Connection".
Hackman asked the director to replace him because he felt he was in over his head.
HACKMAN: I don't think id ever been pushed as much by a director either, which was really good for me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the winner is -- the winner is Mr. Gene Hackman.
CARROLL: In 1972, an Academy Award win for best actor in "The French Connection".
More iconic roles would follow, his take on Lex Luthor in "Superman".
HACKMAN: You were great in your day, Superman.
I wouldn't play Superman for anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't envy Christopher getting into the cape.
HACKMAN: Well, he uses my body, of course.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of course.
CARROLL: To Coach Norman Dale in "Hoosiers".
HACKMAN: I don't care what the scoreboard says at the end of the game. In my book, we're going to be winners.
CARROLL: Another Oscar nomination for his portrayal of FBI agent Rupert Anderson in "Mississippi Burning". A best supporting actor win in 1993 for his performance as Sheriff Little Bill in the dark western "Unforgiven". More than 80 films spanning some six decades, through all the work,
all the accolades, Hackman just saw himself as an actor.
LARRY KING, FORMER CNN HOST: Your name goes above the title, but are you a star?
HACKMAN: No. You know, Warren Beatty is a star. You know, Robert Redford is a star. Brad Pitt. I never think of myself that way.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL (on camera): Oh, but he was a star, all right.
You know, there were so many memorable roles, it was hard to get them all in there. "Young Frankenstein", "The Royal Tenenbaums" -- I mean, and another point.
[19:45:02]
You know, Hackman could have had it easy. He could have been a TV star.
He was the first choice to play Mike Brady in "The Brady Bunch", but he turned it all down. He wanted to go after the meatier roles. He said actually playing a villain was one of the things he liked doing best.
BURNETT: And he was amazing at it.
CARROLL: Incredible.
BURNETT: It's hard to want to be really good at being the bad guy.
CARROLL: The bad guy. But that's where he said all the meat was in the roles.
BURNETT: Yeah.
CARROLL: Yeah. He's going to be missed.
BURNETT: Thank you, Jason Carroll.
And next, the backlash over Elon Musk's drastic cuts exploding in an unlikely place, very unlikely place called conservative radio.
Plus, a right wing influencer accused of rape and human trafficking is now back in the United States with his brother. The two refusing to say if President Trump was the one who helped them get out of Romania. How did they get out?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Tonight, Republicans fed up with Trump and Musk. Conservative hosts, including Sean Hannity and Alex Jones, facing angry listeners who are not happy about what the new administration is doing. [19:50:08]
Sunlen Serfaty is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELON MUSK, TECH BILLIONAIRE: The overall goal here with the DOGE team is to help address the enormous deficit.
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Across the country, backlash over DOGE appears to be intensifying and in some unlikely places.
CALLER: It's frustrating all of us because, like, how do you make life decisions, try to figure out what to do. How do you know to send your kids to college? If you can afford to buy a house when there's no information coming from the administration, which I support strongly?
SERFATY: With many Republicans now flooding the airwaves on conservative radio, angry about how Elon Musk's buzzsaw cuts to the federal government are playing out.
CALLER: I'm a strong supporter of this administration and what their efforts are, but they're not communicating to us anyway of what their overall goal and plan is.
SERFATY: Leaving right wing commentators facing the wrath.
SEAN HANNITY, RADIO HOST: I think that's where the main focus is going to be on. And, you know, limiting the bureaucracy. How many of these jobs are redundant?
SERFATY: And to push back on concerns within their own party.
HANNITY: They're not going to fire every federal employee. There's -- there's too much work that the federal government needs to be done, assuming that your work and her work is -- are essential. I don't think you're going to have anything to worry about. You certainly not involved in weaponization or -- or politicizing in any way.
SERFATY: Typically, a conservative friendly platform is suddenly not, especially when the fired federal workers are Trump supporters.
CHRIS STIGALL, RADIO HOST: I have had quite a bit of outreach from you federal workers. I don't believe. Elon or Trump is going to war with every person that works in the federal government. But folks, I'm going to talk to you like an adult here for a minute. Grow up. Grow up. If you work for the federal government, you need to grow up respectfully.
SERFATY: This fallout, not just on the airwaves, but out in the country. While Republican lawmakers are facing the anger in teletown halls this week.
CONSTITUENT: No one voted for Elon Musk, and if you say he's doing all these great things, when is he going to go before Congress with this report of all these so-called savings?
REP. BOB ONDER (R-MO): Yeah. So we, yeah, thank you. We appreciate your question.
CONSTITUENT: Yeah. Because you can't answer my question.
ONDER: No, no, I'll answer it. Elon Musk is doing a great national service. He reports to the president.
SERFATY: And expressing fresh concerns of their own.
REP. RICH MCCORMICK (R-GA): I want to have compassion.
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Do you think they've gone too far -- too fast here?
MCCORMICK: I think it needs to be reviewed.
REP. NICOLE MALLIOTAKIS (R-NY): This idea that they're going to just fire people via Twitter, Elon Musk, that to me seems rash. It seems not appropriate.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SERFATY (on camera): And some senators met with Elon Musk on Capitol Hill behind closed doors today. And according to those in the meeting, they encouraged musk and DOGE to be more transparent about the actions they're taking and those that they are not -- Erin.
BURNETT: Really fascinating hearing all that.
All right, Sunlen, thank you very much.
And next, that right wing influencer accused of human trafficking and rape in Romania, just returning to the U.S. How come?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:57:25]
BURNETT: Tonight, a Trump supporting right wing influencer charged with rape and human trafficking now in Florida after a travel ban was lifted. Tonight, Trump denying he had anything to do with it.
Nada Bashir is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REPORTER: Did Donald Trump help get the travel ban lifted?
NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Andrew Tate, a self-proclaimed misogynist, and his brother Tristan, landing in Fort Lauderdale, refusing to answer if President Donald Trump helped them return to the United States.
The brothers, online influencers, both permitted to travel out of Romania after prosecutors lifted a years-long travel ban.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Listen, listen, listen.
ANDREW TATE, ONLINE INFLUENCER: We live in a democratic society where its innocent until proven guilty. And I think my brother and I are largely misunderstood. I think it's extremely important that we stop allowing media spin, wrap up, smears, lies, or carefully constructed narratives.
BASHIR: Police arrested the Tate brothers in December 2022 and later charged them with offenses including rape and human trafficking -- allegations they deny.
ANDREW TATE: We're innocent until proven guilty in any of this.
BASHIR: Legal proceedings in Romania are still ongoing, leading many to question why Romanian prosecutors have now chosen to lift the travel ban and what connections there may be to the Trump administration.
Tate has long been a vocal supporter of the U.S. president, posting just two weeks ago the Tates will be free. Trump is the president.
TRUMP: The golden age of America begins right now.
ANDREW TATE: I am so excited for the next four years.
BASHIR: And sharing this video on social media just last week.
Earlier this month, "The Financial Times" reported, citing sources that the Trump administration had put pressure on Romanian authorities to lift the travel restriction first through a phone call, then through a meeting between Trump's special envoy Richard Grenell, and Romania's foreign minister at the Munich security conference.
Romania's foreign minister has acknowledged that discussions took place, though the foreign ministry claims there was no such pressure from the Trump administration. A lawyer representing some of the alleged victims of Andrew Tate has said there is clear evidence to support the allegations against him, calling the decision disgusting and accusing the U.S. government of, quote, lobbying for their release.
ANDREW TATE: They're trying to tell you X, the truth is Y.
BASHIR: In recent years, Andrew Tate shot to Internet fame, racking up billions of views on TikTok with videos centered on his views on male dominance, female submission and wealth.
ANDREW TATE: I don't think the world has ever been equal. I'm saying that the modern society we live in has been built by men.
BASHIR: And Tate just last week writing: Hate me all you want. Women are all sex workers.
Comments like those and the charges in Romania why Florida Governor Ron DeSantis says the brothers aren't welcome in his state.
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R), FLORIDA: No, Florida is not a place where you're welcome with that -- with those -- at that type of conduct.
BASHIR: Nada Bashir, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: Thanks to Nada.
And thanks to very much to all of you for being with us.
"AC360" starts now.
