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Erin Burnett Outfront
Zelenskyy Not Apologizing After Trump Orders Him Out Of White House; Sheriff: Gene Hackman Likely Dead Nine Days Before Found; Pope Francis' Health Takes Turn, Now On Breathing Machine. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired February 28, 2025 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:55]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
The breaking news: No apologies. Zelenskyy speaking moments ago for the first time since the president and vice president of the United States berated him for the world to see. Russian dissident, chess champion Garry Kasparov joins me, along with Senator Richard Blumenthal, who met with Zelenskyy today.
Also breaking, new details about the sudden and mysterious death of actor Gene Hackman, his wife, and dog. A couple who has known Hackman and his wife for 30 years are speaking out tonight OUTFRONT.
Plus, China and Russia now recruiting fired U.S. federal workers. And we'll tell you why.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
(MUSIC)
BURNETT: And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett on this Friday.
And OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy not apologizing. The president of Ukraine just moments ago responding to Trump and Vance publicly berating him in that explosive shouting match unlike anything ever seen in the Oval Office. And tonight, Zelenskyy is not backing down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS HOST: So I'm not hearing from you, Mr. President, a thought that you owe the president an apology.
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: No, I respect president and I respect American people. And if -- I don't know if -- I think that we have to be very open and very honest, and I'm not sure that we did something bad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Then asked again, are you going to apologize? He said no.
Zelenskyy says what the world witnessed in the White House today did not do any favors for the United States or Ukraine.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAIER: Do you think the public spat in the Oval Office in front of the media, served Ukrainians well today?
ZELENSKYY: I think this kind of this kind of spat is -- is -- I mean, this -- we have -- I mean, this is not good for both sides anyway. And I will -- very open, but I can't, you know, change our Ukrainian attitude to Russia. And I don't want -- they are killers for us, you know? This is very, very clear that Americans are the best of our friends. Europeans are the best of our friends. And. Putin, with Russian, they're enemies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: This after a day of infamy at the White House where Trump and Vance behaved like bullies, kind of ganging up on someone on the playground, treating Zelenskyy like a child.
In that televised meeting that the world will never forget, it all went downhill when Zelenskyy correctly laid out some of the facts about how Putin has broken his word on invading Ukraine not once, not twice, not three times, not four, actually, as he laid it out even more.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZELENSKYY: He occupied it, our parts, big parts of Ukraine, part of east and Cimea. So he occupied it on 2014. So during a lot of years, I'm not speaking about just Biden, but those times was Obama, then President Obama, then President Trump, then President Biden, now the President Trump. And God bless. Now president Trump will stop him.
But during 2014, nobody stopped him. He just occupied and took. He killed people.
In 2019, I signed with him the deal I signed with him, Macron and Merkel. We signed ceasefire, ceasefire. Yes. But after that, he broken the ceasefire. He killed our people and he didn't exchange prisoners. We signed the exchange of prisoners, but he didn't do it.
What kind of diplomacy, J.D., you are speaking about? What -- what -- what do you -- what do you mean?
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm talking about the kind of diplomacy that's going to end the destruction of your country.
ZELENSKYY: Yes.
VANCE: Mr. President, Mr. President, with respect, I think it's disrespectful for you to come into the oval office and try to litigate this in front of the American media. Right now, you guys are going around and forcing conscripts to the front lines because you have manpower problems. You should be thanking the president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So that was it, about thanking them. And Zelenskyy was called out for laying out all of those times that Putin has broken the ceasefire. And then Trump said this.
[19:05:03]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You're gambling with World War III, and what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country that's backed you far more than a lot of people said they should have.
(CROSSTALK)
VANCE: Have you said thank you once this entire meeting?
ZELENSKYY: A lot of times.
VANCE: No. In this entire meeting, have you said thank you?
ZELENSKYY: Today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: We're going to get back to those "thank yous" in a moment because I'm coming up that he needed to say thank you.
You know, look, it was humiliating to watch it. Trump and Vance didn't stop there. They continued -- refusing at some times to even let Zelenskyy speak.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZELENSKYY: Please. You think that if you will speak very loudly about the war, you --
TRUMP: He's not speaking loudly. He's not speaking loudly. Your country is in big trouble.
ZELENSKYY: Can I --
TRUMP: Wait a minute. No, no, you've done a lot of talking. Your country is in big trouble.
ZELENSKYY: I know. I know.
TRUMP: You're not winning. You're not winning this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Zelenskyy did remain composed, though, despite the attacks and being interrupted and talked over at the meeting.
After the meeting, though, here's what happened. It went really south. Trump kicked him out of the White House. He canceled the lunch. He also canceled that joint press conference where two world leaders appear and take questions from reporters, standard as a head of state visit. It's incredible that that was canceled.
So what could have fueled all of this? Apparently, it went wrong right at the start. Official telling CNN that what could have been at the root of the tensions, and again, this is from people inside the Trump administration telling us this was that Zelenskyy got out of his car wearing what he always wears in these settings, what he's wearing when I've interviewed him, when anyone else has seen him, a shirt with the Ukraine trident on it. Well, that's not a suit. The trident of Ukraine, of course, symbolizes the country's strength, independence and unity. It's what he wears as a uniform in the face of the war.
And Trump took notice of Zelenskyy's attire.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Look at you, you're all dressed up today.
ZELENSKYY: Yes, I had to.
TRUMP: Look at that.
ZELENSKYY: How are you, Mr. President?
TRUMP: He's all dressed up today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Trump said to have taken issue with what Trump wore that so dressed up today obviously made said to make a point because he's really never seemed to have an issue though with how people dress. I mean, you know, this one appears in the Oval Office wearing a t-shirt and a hat in the White House anywhere.
And back to those "thank yous" that I had referenced, that I would mention that Trump and Vance are claiming Zelenskyy does not say thank you and that you need to say thank you. Why haven't you said thank you in this meeting? As J.D. Vance said?
Well, that actually really stood out to us because anyone who has ever listened to Zelenskyy in an interview, in a speech, in a tweet, even today, after the humiliating scene in the White House, knows that he says thank you all the time. You don't need to say anything. He starts an interview talking about saying thank you every time he talks to Americans.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZELENSKYY: I'm grateful to the U.S. for their support.
I'm very thankful to -- to Americans for all your support. You did a lot. I'm thankful to President Trump and to Congress, bipartisan support. And I was always very thankful.
So what can I say to American people in English? My English is poor to say all, all my messages and all my thanks to you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Of course, it feels absurd to air sound bites like that, as if receiving a thank you is why America decided to back a country invaded by Russia in the largest land war in Europe since World War II. It's not about thank yous, but for Trump, it was a petty moment that appears to be as important as any policy.
Jeff Zeleny is OUTFRONT, live outside the White House to begin our coverage tonight.
And, Jeff, you know, in this interview, we just saw him there with Bret Baier moments ago. Zelenskyy stood firm. He did not apologize, even when Bret made it very clear, you know, are you choosing not to do that? So then what does that mean? What does Trump want from Zelenskyy right now?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, Erin, the bottom line is, Trump wants President Zelenskyy to basically stand down. He wants him to basically stand down from his fight with Vladimir Putin.
I mean, just a short time ago, as president Trump was leaving the White House after a very extraordinary day here, he said he's not interested in fight, fight, fight. He wants a man who can make peace.
So when you sort of look through the lines there and break that all down, the bottom line is, the president and the vice president were not interested in a history lesson. They were not interested in anything Putin has done before. They simply want a deal to be made.
But I can say, standing here, as we saw Zelenskyy drive in, in a ceremonial welcome with an honor guard, and then two hours and 20 minutes later, see him drive out with no fanfare or sendoff. It was a diplomatic breakdown unlike we have ever seen here, and it's unclear exactly where this will go from here.
Talking to one White House official just a few moments ago, saying an apology would have been welcome, but it was not expected.
But President Zelenskyy did. In that interview on Fox expressed regret at how it had all played out, how it had all gone down, that this was so public.
[19:10:05]
So clearly he is eager to have the U.S. more on his side. And President Trump clearly is not eager to do that.
So the president now is on his way to Florida. He'll be spending the weekend at his Mar-a-Lago resort, talking to his advisers. It is unclear where this is going to head from here.
But one thing is clear. One adviser tells me President Trump did want to make a deal today over those minerals. He does want a win here to move on.
The lunch was prepared for the delegation for Ukraine. Even assigning table was in the East Room with three Ukrainian flags. Three American flags. Seats were at the table to sign a deal.
So the White House was ready to. And until the vice president spoke, it looked like that was going to happen -- Erin.
BURNETT: Yeah. I mean, you know, J.D. jumped in there. It changed everything.
All right. Thank you very much, Jeff Zeleny.
OUTFRONT now, the Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal. He met with Zelenskyy today. So -- so he was with him in Washington. He's also, of course, on armed services committee. Garry Kasparov, Russian dissident, grand chess master, also just wrote an article in "The Atlantic" that I would urge anyone to read who hasn't.
Senator Blumenthal, so, you know, you were with Zelenskyy today. He you know, this -- this -- this moment happened, which I have to keep rewatching. And yet it makes me sick to watch it.
He did not apologize in that interview with Bret Baier. He stood firm. So what happens now?
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): Well, I was with President Zelenskyy earlier in the day at 930, in a bipartisan meeting, very positive and very productive. And he was ready, willing and able to sign that agreement. There was an expectation in the room that the agreement was all set. I think there is a mutuality of interest in that agreement and in --
BURNETT: The minerals deal. So he was planning to sign it.
BLUMENTHAL: He was planning to sign it.
But let's be clear about what happened in that meeting at the White House. It was not looking for thanks or gratitude. It was demanding, groveling, and the kind of belittling and bullying that occurred there, I think is absolutely shameful for the president and the vice president of United States. It had very much the feeling of an ambush.
And, you know, President Zelenskyy has thanked me, thanked the delegations that I visited Ukraine with six times. I've met with him probably 15 times in total. Every one of those meetings, as you've said so well, he has expressed his gratitude to the American people.
And I think now we have to put it back together. I'm hopeful. I can't say I'm confident, but I am hopeful that at the staff level, at the diplomatic level, at the congressional level, we will preserve and use our bipartisan coalition.
BURNETT: So -- so, Gary, I mean, the body language, though, was incredible today. I mean, this is what I think just no ones ever seen anything like this in public, right? Trumps pointing at him, right? You know, leaning in, Zelenskyy Trumps face then gets red. You know, just the look on Zelenskyy's face in some of these moments here that we've screen-grabbed.
I mean, why do you think Trump chose to respond to this? He made a comment at the end, Garry, this is going to be great TV, right? He was hyper aware that all of this was going to be seen. That seemed to be the point.
GARRY KASPAROV, RUSSIAN DISSIDENT, CHESS GRANDMASTER: It's natural for Trump to think about TV effect of him, whatever he's doing, but I have a slightly different reading of the whole story.
BURNETT: Yeah.
KASPAROV: It was provoked by J.D. Vance. If you look carefully at what Trump did prior to J.D. Vance interference, even when he met Zelenskyy, when he said, oh, you're dressed up, that's not Trump. He was not berating. It was, well, okay, fine. You know, more sunny, sunny.
Look, you know, Trump was in a good mood. He was ready to sign. It's every -- every indication that Trump wanted to sign and to Trumpet a big victory.
J.D. Vance interfered. And by the way, Senator, tell me what J.D. Vance was doing in the Oval Office. It's -- it's highly unusual, I think, that J.D. Vance, who represents the most aggressive part of the administration, Musk, Donald Jr. or so, and they were always anti- Ukrainian, they were always more pro-Russian than Trump.
And I think they were concerned about Trumps weakness or softness with Macron and Starmer. That's why J.D. Vance was there. I think J.D. Vance came in to create this crisis and up to his interference, it was all more -- again, Trump. Trump is Trump. But -- but J.D. Vance intentionally provoked the crisis.
And then it was very easy. Trump fired up.
BURNETT: Well, he got fired.
KASPAROV: Because he was lying. I mean, he was pushing the same lies, you know, with a straight face, same way he did it in Munich facing the, the, the European saying, you're a bunch of suckers and losers. The same. He's -- you know, he knows how to deliver. And he knew exactly that Trump will jump. You know, when Zelenskyy tried to actually to correct the facts.
BURNETT: And you know on that moment when you see you see Zelenskyy laying out the -- the times the ceasefire has been broken and Trumps annoyed at times, he jumps in and tries to make the point, well, I wasn't president then.
[19:15:06]
But it is J.D. Vance. I think it's disrespectful for you to come to the Oval and then he and the whole thing turns, you know, sort of jumped in to come to the defense of his big brother or something.
BLUMENTHAL: And that's what I meant when I said it smacks of an ambush, that J.D. Vance knew what he was doing. He probably anticipated Trump would rise to the bait, so to speak, and that Zelenskyy was basically laying out the betrayal and the dishonesty of Putin.
And there is a through line in Donald Trumps foreign policy, which is always sycophancy to Putin. And that's what we saw on clear view today.
BURNETT: Well, it was when he was laying out the times that had been broken, right, then J.D. came in almost as if, you know, this is the moment I got to make sure I got this can't -- this can't get traction here.
On this ceasefire, Garry, there was an exchange that Trump had. So Zelenskyy is talking about Putin breaking the ceasefire. And then Trump comes in. It's a very trademark Trump answer. But you can give perspective on whether it's real.
Here's what he says about breaking ceasefires.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: What if they broke it -- I don't know. They broke it with Biden because Biden -- they didn't respect him. They didn't respect Obama. They respect me.
All I can say is this he might have broken deals with Obama and Bush, and he might have broken them with Biden. He did. Maybe. Maybe he didn't. I don't know what happened, but he didn't break him with me. He wants to make a deal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So, Garry, Trump thinks this is about him, that Putin wants to do a deal with him, that he won't break a ceasefire with him. He will with everybody else, but not with me. Is it about him?
KASPAROV: Actually, I think Trump speaks the truth. Putin wants to make a deal with him because that's the best person that can make a deal with -- with Putin. And the reason that Putin has attacked Ukraine early is because he expected Trump to win in 2020.
And then, you know, maybe Trump right, maybe there would be no war because Trump would be forcing Zelenskyy to accept Putin's demands. So, Putin, if --
BURNETT: So, you're saying yes to a deal with Trump because it will be the deal Putin wants.
KASPAROV: Exactly. Again, it's what I'm saying because they've been saying it. You know, I followed Russian internet today. It's just, you know, it bursts in celebration. It just -- it's the biggest thing that ever happened to them since God knows when. So, it's -- they are celebrating because now, fine, they saw Trump showed, as they say, they say, two colors. Now Russia and America will decide the future of the world.
Again, it's not just about Ukraine. It's about the international world order.
BURNETT: And you think in your article, you say that Trump doesn't -- it's not -- it's not just a matter of respecting Putin that he's imitating him.
KASPAROV: Absolutely. That's what he's doing here. It's just -- it's -- it's basically abandoning the systems of checks and balances and the functioning democracy that served America well for 200 -- 250 years.
BLUMENTHAL: And I think Garry makes a really important point. We've said over the last three years the world is watching. Xi in China, Kim in North Korea, the rulers of Iran are watching. And what Trump demonstrated is weakness, pathetic abandonment of an ally who has been bleeding and dying.
And then the audacity to say that Zelenskyy doesn't want peace, this man has led the country bleeding and dying. He's lost friends. He's gone to visit the amputees. I've been with him at times when he has mourned and really indescribably grieved for his country, and he's led it with courage and determination.
In the first Russian assault, they came within just miles of his bunker. I visited Bucha, where women and children were shot through the head and buried in mass graves. So he wants peace, but it has to be peace with freedom and independence. And that's why we should be supporting him because Putin will keep the aggression going.
BURNETT: Well, Putin has said there's no such thing as Ukraine and there's no such thing --
KASPAROV: By the way, just to add, is this -- it's the -- if you look at Russia today. So this is -- it's a -- it's a giant military camp from kindergarten to the top of the government. They talk only about war.
It's a brainwashed country. The military production is pumping. So the mobilization is on the way. So FSB receiving new -- new powers. The Putin has no intention to end the war. If you look at what he has been doing, not what he occasionally says.
BURNETT: Yeah, look, actions speak louder than words. They always do.
Well, thank you both so very much. Again, I hope people will see your article in "The Atlantic", Garry.
And next, the breaking news continues. Zelenskyy has just responded to Lindsey Graham's calls for him to resign. Okay, so what does he say about that?
Also, breaking the mystery is deepening tonight over the death of legendary actor Gene Hackman and his wife.
[19:20:03]
Police just moments ago, revealing how long Hackman had likely been dead before his body was discovered.
And we are just learning now. Pope Francis's health tonight has taken a sudden turn for the worse.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Breaking news, President Trump suggesting that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy does not want to end the war in Ukraine and have peace, claiming that it is Russian President Vladimir Putin who does.
Here's Trump just hours after he and Vice President Vance repeatedly berated Zelenskyy in the oval office.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: He's got to say, I want to make peace. He doesn't have to stand there and say about Putin, this, Putin, that all negative things. President Putin is going to want to make and he wants to make -- he wants to end it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OUTFRONT now, Christo Grozev, investigative journalist who helped uncover the people behind Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny's poisoning. He's also on Russia's wanted list.
Christo, thanks very much for being with us tonight. I know it's obviously late.
I mean, Russian officials are calling what happened in the White House today historic. You heard Garry Kasparov talking about just the response in Russia, just, you know, jubilance and celebration.
[19:25:07]
In Putin's wildest dreams, would he have thought that he would witness what happened today between Trump, Vance and Zelenskyy?
CHRISTO GROZEV, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST ON RUSSIA'S "WANTED LIST": Not really. I mean, in Putin's wildest dreams, he imagined six months ago that Trump would win and would be a much more conducive to talking to him, to breaking the isolation that the western world has imposed on Putin after the full scale invasion, and that he would be more confused, conducive to transactional politics.
But I believe I know for a fact that what happened today has exceeded his wildest dreams. And generally, what happened since the onset of the administration and the signaling that was made towards the terms of a potential deal on ending the Ukraine war has exceeded what Russia wanted or dared hope for. We've been monitoring the expectations of Russian officials on what
they could expect from a future Trump administration. We've talked to insiders and the Kremlin. We were just preparing a publication showing that the Russian expectation was for something much lesser than what the Trump administration has already signaled is willing to present to -- to the Russian side. But what happened today is just the -- such a wonder to the Kremlin on many levels, not only in terms of showing a sort of a split between, the allies, between Ukraine and the United States, but showing a split between the western world among the different parts of the western world.
This is literally a win on many check boxes that have been checked today.
BURNETT: Well, it's incredible. You're talking about your reporting that in a sense, then the U.S. was negotiating against itself already starting further ahead than Putin would have even asked for.
I mean, you know, tonight I mentioned Lindsey Graham, the senator, he said that Zelenskyy should resign. That was what he said, backing Trump after that meeting in the Oval Office.
So Zelenskyy just did that interview with -- with Brett. Here's what he said in response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZELENSKYY: Americans vote for American president. Each European country vote for their president. And only Ukraine -- with all respect to Lindsey, if I can say, Lindsey, we know each other. Yes. And only Ukrainians vote --
BAIER: Democrats have had.
ZELENSKYY: Their president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So what does no deal, Christo, from your reporting, you know, whatever, whatever a deal would have been and minerals. I mean, you know, whatever amorphous thing were talking about here. But what does no deal mean for Ukraine?
GROZEV: Well, first of all, I would like to just put myself in Zelenskyy's shoes for a moment today and reacting to the statement from Lindsey Graham, just want to point out that Zelenskyy's behavior today, his words today, are no different than the same words, the same dress code, and the same behavior that he had months ago when he spoke to the American Congress, the American Senate, and the same Lindsey Graham responded very favorably to exactly the same strong patriotic, anti-Putin words.
And just imagine how he feels today with (INAUDIBLE) behaving completely differently. And, it's somewhat hypocritical.
In terms of a no deal -- well, first of all, there was not there may not be a deal between the United States and Russia. There may not be a deal between the United States and Ukraine. But what has happened today is definitely triggering a much stronger, unified response by Europe, essentially in support of Ukraine. Russia was hoping for a deal because the sanctions are working. The sanctions are debilitating Russian economy. It's not something that you can see on a daily basis.
The change, the amplitude of the sanctions is something you can see over the long term. And the Russian economy is completely poised to produce armaments, to produce weapons for the frontline, things that don't add value to the economy, things that are destroyed on the daily basis.
So, the Russian economists and the Kremlin know very well that there's a short horizon after which there is no more recovery possible for the Russian economy. Therefore, Russia is playing a game -- a long game, is trying to essentially extend the time that they can negotiate, extend the time that it can get Ukraine to be without external help and make advances in so that it has a stronger negotiating position.
This is what Russia will do in the next few weeks, and it's only a matter of how quickly either Trump is convinced -- get convinced, because that's still a possibility that European leaders convinced Trump that what he has done today is negotiating against himself, or Europe finding a way to support Ukraine without the immediate help of the United States, so that Ukraine can maintain that balance for long enough for the Russian economy to crash.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Christo, thank you so much for your perspective is so important on this historic night. Thank you.
GROZEV: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, breaking news. Secretary of State Marco Rubio just speaking out about the Oval Office meeting with Trump and Zelenskyy. Plus, police just releasing grim new details about the death of actor Gene Hackman.
[19:30:01]
In a moment, I'll speak with two of his longtime friends. They've known him for 30 years. What are they thinking tonight?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Breaking news, Secretary of State Marco Rubio just telling CNN's Kaitlan Collins that it is Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy who needs to apologize to President Trump after Trump and Vice President Vance repeatedly berated Zelenskyy in front of the world at the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: What specifically do you want to see President Zelenskyy apologize for?
MARCO RUBIO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, apologize for turning this thing into the fiasco for him that it became. There was no need for him to go in there and become antagonistic. Look, this thing went off the rails. You were there I believe.
It went off the rails when he said, let me ask you a question to the vice president. What kind of diplomacy are you talking about? Well, these -- this is a serious thing. I mean, thousands of people have been killed, thousands.
And he talks about all these horrible things that have happened to prisoners of war and children. All true, all bad, this is what we're dealing with here. It needs to come to an end. We are trying to bring it to an end.
The way you bring it to an end is you get Russia to the table to talk. And he understands that attacking Putin, no matter how anyone may feel about him personally, forcing the president into a position where you're trying to goad him into attacking Putin, calling him names, maximalist demands about Russia having to pay for the reconstruction -- all the sorts of things that you talk about in a negotiation when you start talking about that aggressively.
[19:35:14]
And the president is a deal maker. He's made deals his entire life. You're not going to get people to the table.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OUTFRONT now, the Democratic governor of Maryland, Wes Moore, and governor, I really appreciate your time. I mean, Ukraine is deeply personal to you. You have spent time over there during the war. You are an army vet, served in Afghanistan, 82nd Airborne. You trained paratroopers there, and you have vowed that America will always stand with Ukraine. Those are the words that you have used.
So today, you see this happening in the oval office. You hear the president and the vice president berating and humiliating President Zelenskyy. How did you even react?
GOV. WES MOORE (D), MARYLAND: I mean, this was so disturbing, because -- because we can't forget what actually happened years ago, where -- where Ukraine was invaded by a foreign country, that they now have been spending these past -- you know, these past years fighting for not just their independence, but fighting for their lives and losing -- losing just, I mean, thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people in the process of this -- of this unlawful war that is taking place.
And we watched the leader of the country getting berated in the Oval Office because he didn't say thank you enough. I mean, this -- this was -- this was so deeply, deeply disturbing, as someone who has served in combat and I see that, you know, combat is combat is ugly, and understanding that kind of ugliness that, that President Zelenskyy has -- has seen and had to lead through over these years, he doesn't deserve to be berated. BURNETT: Yeah. I mean, he talked about the fight. And of course, Trump
made a point of saying that Putin, you know, would -- would respect him when he hadn't respected Obama and Biden and Bush, he had a lot of denigrating things to say about President Biden and the money that he had sent to Ukraine, the investment that the U.S. has put into Ukraine. Something like this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We gave you through the stupid president, $350 billion.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: We gave you military equipment. You -- and your men are brave, but they had to use our military equipment.
If you didn't have our military equipment --
ZELENSKY: You invited me.
TRUMP: -- you didn't have our military equipment. This war would have been over in two weeks.
ZELENSKYY: In three days, I heard it from Putin in three days. This is something.
TRUMP: Maybe less.
ZELENSKYY: In two weeks, of course, yes.
TRUMP: It's going to be a very hard thing to do business like this. I tell you.
VANCE: You say thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: You hear the vice president jump in with, you know, we say thank you.
I mean, it's hard to watch that for -- for anyone to watch that and then to think about it from Vladimir Zelenskyy's perspective, this is a crucial relationship for him. I mean, is it a relationship that can be repaired if that's even the right word to use, Governor?
MOORE: We need to make sure that that President Zelenskyy and more importantly, the Ukrainian people are getting support, that we have to be able to end this war, but we have to be able to do it in a way that respects the independence, the autonomy, and the fight of the Ukrainian people.
And so watching, watching their leader being -- being berated like that, it's just -- it's not just difficult to -- to watch. It's beneath us and, and our commitment that we should be having to the Ukrainian people to bring a measure of stability to their future, and a measure of independence to -- to their cause. BURNETT: And, Governor, you know, CNN's reporting tonight that Russia
and China have basically stepped up their attempted recruitment of U.S. spies, ramping up their intelligence service efforts to recruit American federal workers who have been fired or believe they could be fired.
You know, you're sitting here as the governor of Maryland, the second highest concentration of federal workers in the nation are in your state. And you're hearing a headline like that that Russia and China are trying to recruit people in your state to spy because of what's going on in this government.
I mean, do you believe that Trump and Musk's firings, these efforts of DOGE, have put Americas security in danger?
MOORE: I think the -- the reckless nature that we've seen from DOGE has not just compromised American national security, but it's compromised our economic prospects. You know, not only I think about my state where, yes, we have over 160,000 federal employees in the state of Maryland, and that doesn't even include the uniformed personnel. That does not include the contractors. And I was standing with many of them today where we had a press conference about executive action that I was taking to make sure that our federal workers were supported.
And we're talking about people, some of which who have been working and being public servants, true patriots now for decades, working for both Democrat and Republican presidents.
[19:40:05]
And we're doing it not because of an affiliation to a political party, but were doing it for a love of country and to watch how they are being disrespected and disregarded in this fashion is just deeply disrespectful. When we think about the patriotic nature that they bring to work every single day.
BURNETT: And now you're announcing governor, help on the way for some of the fired federal workers in your state. I mean, what exactly are you doing to help them?
MOORE: Well, we've actually assigned five different pathways. So not only are we increasing the unemployment insurance through our department of labor that we have for our federal workers, but we're also doing things like streamlining, streamlining them into occupations where we know we have a distinct need. So, for example, Maryland has a has a significant teacher shortage. And so we're saying how can we streamline them into occupations like education, that we know that there is a need for.
How are we also thinking about additional state jobs where we have vacancies and we have and we have places that need fill that we can move federal workers into those places and do it in a streamlined fashion?
But it's really being how are we going to be creative about supporting our people? Because this is a time when we feel that we're watching a federal administration focusing on breaking things down. We're focusing on building things up in the state of Maryland. This is the moment when Maryland will mobilize.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Governor Wes Moore of Maryland, thank you so much.
MOORE: Thank you so much.
BURNETT: And next, the breaking news, the intrigue intensifying tonight as police reveal new details about the death of actor Gene Hackman. Next, I'm going to speak to two of his longtime friends who were even in business with Hackman's wife when his the last time they saw him. And Pope Francis tonight suffering a new health setback.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:46:07]
BURNETT: Breaking news, nine days. That is how long legendary actor Gene Hackman was likely lying dead on the floor before he and his wife and his dog, their bodies were found at their secluded mansion in New Mexico. Police revealing just moments ago that Hackman's pacemaker showed a final February 17th recording, with them saying their assumption was that that would have been his last day alive. Police also confirming Hackman and his wife both tested negative for carbon monoxide poisoning.
Josh Campbell is in New Mexico tonight. He has been speaking with investigators and he is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Significant new details tonight in the death of Hollywood icon Gene Hackman and his 65-year-old wife, Betsy Arakawa, after their bodies were discovered inside their New Mexico home. Investigators now say it is very likely the 95-year-old actor died over a week before he was found.
SHERIFF ADAN MENDOZA, SANTA FE COUNTY: An initial interrogation was conducted of Mr. Hackman's pacemaker. This revealed that his last event was recorded on February 17th, 2025.
CAMPBELL: The Santa Fe sheriff says tests have also confirmed that Hackman and Arakawa both tested negative for carbon monoxide. There's also new information released about several items seized by police from Hackman's home. Two green colored cellular devices, three medicines, a thyroid medication a medication used to treat high blood pressure or chest pain, and Tylenol.
Also, records from MyQuest, a medical diagnostic service and a 2025 planner.
MENDOZA: We'll be analyzing cell phone data, phone calls, text messages, events, photos in the -- in the cell phone to try to piece a timeline together and then hopefully make a determination, what may have happened to -- to both the individuals.
CAMPBELL: Their bodies were discovered Wednesday inside their Santa Fe, New Mexico home. Deputies considered the circumstances suspicious enough to warrant a thorough investigation.
MENDOZA: I think I'm pretty confident that there is no foul play, just based on the lack of -- of evidence of foul play. But we, of course, were not ruling that out.
CAMPBELL: Deputies found them during a welfare check request from two maintenance workers who told police they had not been in contact with the homeowners for about two weeks. Investigators say the 95-year-old actor was found on the ground in a mud room. Arakawa was found on the ground inside a bathroom next to an open prescription pill bottle, with pills scattered around.
A German shepherd dog was also found dead near her body inside a crate. Officials say a toxicology report could take some time.
MENDOZA: It could be a month or three months or longer, in my experience.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CAMPBELL (on camera): And, Erin, in addition to waiting on toxicology reports, investigators say they're also waiting to get into the cell phones that were recovered from Hackman's residence. They say that those devices could contain critical information as they try to build this timeline about when the couple may have died. The sheriff said they may have to reach out to other agencies for assistance in order to get into those phones -- Erin.
BURNETT: Yeah, and just -- such a mystery. Such a tragedy.
All right, Josh, thanks very much.
And OUTFRONT now, Daniel and Barbara Lenihan, they are close friends of Gene Hackman and his wife Betsy for more than 30 years.
And, Barbara and Daniel, I'm so sorry for your loss and just all of this -- the questions and not knowing and your dear friends.
I know, Barbara, that you had run a home decor business in Santa Fe with Betsy, and you shared some photos with us, a boating trip with your kids. Hackman is there on the far left. Just so many memories of good times together, cutting down your family Christmas trees.
What can you share with us about the last time that you saw them?
DANIEL LENIHAN, CO-AUTHOR TO GENE HACKMAN; HACKMAN FAMILY FRIEND: Well, the last time that we saw them, they were alive and well, and usually they're very easy people to get along with. And we were getting along.
[19:50:00] BARBARA LENIHAN, BUSINESS PARTNER TO BETSY ARAKAWA, HACKMAN FAMILY FRIEND: I've seen Betsy recently because she drops in the shop, even though she's a silent partner. She was in there a couple weeks ago, three weeks ago, something like that.
And we usually email and then we might talk on the phone, but, uh, the same with Dan and our two sons are in contact with Betsy quite a lot.
So, Gene, just because he doesn't type. So if were on email or anything, then it's with Betsy.
BURNETT: I mean, Daniel, I know you knew -- you knew Gene so well. As a dear friend, you wrote three adventure novels together, which -- which people may not be aware of. And you were first connected, if I understand, because he was interested in your work, which was an underwater archeologist. So he had learned to scuba dive for the scene that we're looking at here in the firm with Tom Cruise, and then you and he connected over this.
What will you remember most about him, Daniel?
D. LENIHAN: Well, I just remember him very much as interesting, funny, very intelligent man. He always had another idea to do something that would be fun and be interesting.
BURNETT: So, Barbara, I know you had said that Betsy had been very protective of Gene since the COVID pandemic, right? And she didn't want him to get sick. You know what more can you tell us about that and what their lives were like in these recent years?
B. LENIHAN: Well, we used to see them a lot more. You know, Gene was 95. So, I mean, I think until a year ago he was still riding his bicycle. And Betsy had him doing yoga and different things at home on Zoom and trying to stay very fit. And she fed him very well.
They just -- I'm trying to remember the question now, yeah. They -- they were just -- we hadn't seen them as much for that reason and COVID, Betsy really protected him every time she came into the shop lately, she was wearing a mask, so she just did not want him to get sick. So --
BURNETT: You know, just obviously a great -- a great love there.
I mean, Barbara, I know you've been to their house so many times and, you know, officials are now saying, you know, that door in the back of the house was left open. It's a big house, obviously, as were even seeing images of it. Would it have been normal for - for things like that, doors to be open or, you know.
B. LENIHAN: You know, I have no idea. No idea about that. No idea about the investigation. We're just shattered, but we don't know what happened.
BURNETT: Daniel, how -- how difficult has it been for you to process what happened? The fact that this is, you know, this is the national story, that it is. D. LENIHAN: Yeah. I think that, well, it just puts people that were
quite close to us into a kind of a story that we think isn't at all filled in yet and --
BURNETT: Yeah.
D. LENIHAN: -- certainly what they're -- the intention of assigning to them what had happened just doesn't fit. You know, they weren't in the same condition as they usually were. And we don't understand what happened with that.
BURNETT: Barbara, you talk about Betsy, you know, wearing the mask and wanting to protect him and, you know, cooking for him, putting, making him do the yoga classes on Zoom. You know, he obviously was a very -- he was a quiet person. He was an introverted person in terms of as actors would go, right? He chose a very different life. They chose a different life.
But can you share just a little bit of their -- their love story and, and how? I mean, it sounds like, you know, you're talking about people who were very much in love.
B. LENIHAN: They were. They were so delightful to be around, like my son that we were talking to today, probably never seen a couple that got along and enjoyed each other so much.
Of course, Betsy was proud of Gene. Gene was equally proud of her. She was a concert pianist. He used to have her play for us up at their house. He would give the classical pieces that were his favorite, and she was a tremendous.
But, they were on the same page. She was as clever and witty and fun as he was. They traveled. They just did so much. They were great in the community. Everybody liked them and loved spending time with them.
BURNETT: Well, I am so sorry for your loss. Thank you for sharing about them again. I know they were so private, but, amidst all of this, just hearing about them and their love for each other and the community and their friends is important.
[19:55:03]
And thank you.
B. LENIHAN: Thank you very much.
D. LENIHAN: Thank you.
B. LENIHAN: Yeah.
BURNETT: Well, next, we have some breaking news with a troubling new development regarding Pope Francis. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Breaking news, Pope Francis health taking a sudden turn for the worse after days of the Vatican reporting. The pope resting in stable condition, we are learning that he is now breathing with a machine. He suffered a sudden respiratory episode. His condition, they said, was further complicated by vomiting, some of which had been inhaled. That's why the breathing helped.
The 88-year-old pope has been hospitalized since February 14th. The Vatican says he's not out of danger, but that he is, quote, alert and oriented. Of course. Prayers for him.
Thanks so much to all of you for joining us on this Friday night.
"AC360" starts now.
