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Erin Burnett Outfront
Dow Plunges Nearly 900 Points Amid Recession Fears; Elon Musk Calls Senate A "Traitor" For Pro-Ukraine Post; "Low IQ": Top State Department Official Ridiculed Rubio. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired March 10, 2025 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:37]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
The breaking news, nosedive. The Dow sinking nearly 900 points as Trump refuses to rule out a recession. A longtime trader at the New York Stock Exchange is my guest, next.
Plus, J.D. Vance's cousin is our guest tonight, in his first television interview. Nate Vance just returned from fighting in Ukraine. Why he calls his own cousin, the vice president, one of Putin's, quote, useful idiots.
And KFILE revealing disturbing tweets from one of Rubio's deputies at the State Department, once saying Rubio had a low IQ and spreading false rumors about his sexuality. The two men, though, are still working together tonight.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news, freefall. The Dow plunging nearly 900 points. The Nasdaq with its worst single day of trading since 2022, beginning of the Ukraine war.
Driving the selloff, fears that Trump's economy is barreling towards a recession, in part because of the self-inflicted trade war, and what's been scaring investors the most is that Trump himself is not ruling a recession out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIA BARTIROMO, FOX NEWS HOST: Are you expecting a recession this year?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I hate to predict things like that. There is a period of transition because what we're doing is very big.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Well, a period of transition that might be confused for a recession is certainly not what Trump campaigned on. You remember he vowed to rescue the economy on day one. He was very explicit about that, day one.
Since his election, he has been claiming again and again that markets are going up, soaring, in fact, because he beat Kamala Harris.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Since the election, the stock market has surged.
Since the election, the stock market has broken one record after another.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Well, now, of course -- well, I mean, it's -- it's not true. I mean, if you're talking about records being going up, the Dow is now 1,500 -- 1,500 points below where it was when Trump took office.
And yet Trump's team is now, well, blaming -- you'll see.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEVIN HASSETT, DIRECTOR, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL: Near term, we've got a Biden economy.
REP. NICOLE MALLIOTAKIS (R-NY): You can't disregard the damage that the Biden administration did to our economy with their regulations, with their inflationary spending, with the -- the interest rates that have skyrocketed because of his policies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Sort of interesting, right? Everything's going up because he won, and now blaming it on Biden. Okay. The thing is, when the markets went down under Biden, Trump made sure everybody knew whose fault it was because he watches the markets incredibly closely. He watches them every day, all day long.
Just listen to him during the campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: By the way, I hate to tell you, the stock market dropped over a thousand points on Friday. Lots of luck, everybody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Well, you know, maybe this 1,000 points today is different. Well, today, Trump also posted stock markets crashing. I told you so.
Kamala doesn't have a clue. Biden is sound asleep all caused by inept U.S. leadership. That, of course, was back in August.
Now, if he goes by his own measurements, it would be his own leadership that's coming into question. The headline from "The Drudge Report" is that economy cracks, Trump 2.0 slump. And of course, this has gotten under the skin of the administration. "The Wall Street Journal": Free market capitalism at its best calls Trump's tariffs the, quote, dumbest trade war in history.
Trump's on again/off again tariffs are hanging like a cloud over the markets. That's the reality. In a moment, I'm going to speak to one of the most well known traders on the New York Stock Exchange. Peter Tuchman's expressions say it all.
So what does he think? You'll hear in a moment. But as for Trump, this is what he wants you to think tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You can't really watch the stock market.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Except this is coming from somebody who watches the markets like a hawk.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You know, to me, stock market is very all of it. You know, all of it together. It's very important.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Jeff Zeleny is OUTFRONT live to begin our coverage outside the White House.
So, Jeff, look, this is massive volatility, Dow, 1,000 points as the day when there was a recovery because maybe there won't be tariffs. And then they plunge when there are. On the topic of the markets today, though, unusually complete silence from President Trump.
Now, we've all grown accustomed to hearing from him every single day, right? I mean, he comes out, he talks in one way, shape or form. He posts things often multiple times a day. But today, nothing.
[19:05:01]
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Unusually silent and entirely out of sight.
He was here at the White House. He returned last evening after a regular weekend at his Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida, but he was not seen and was not heard from at all, as the market was falling all day long.
And it raises the question, of course, is he actually watching the stock market, as you have pointed out? I mean, that is something that we have become used to seeing, one of the rhythms of the political lives of this president. He has talked about it incessantly. He did not mention it at all.
We talked to White House advisers, and they are pointing to his record from his first time in office, saying that the strong economic gains in the record from the first term will send a positive signal for the same thing in the second term. However, that simply is not happening yet at this point.
But tomorrow, the silence is going to end, Erin. And here's why, the president is at least scheduled we're told to speak to the business roundtable, which, as you know, is a group of CEOs and business leaders here in Washington that I'm told by advisers that that is his plan. So we shall see what he says.
But of course, the uncertainty is underlying all of this. That is what is the really the biggest issue here when you talk to so many economic advisers, the on again/off again trade policy. So, we shall see if a clearer message emerges tomorrow. But it was silent today, unusually so at the White House, Erin.
BURNETT: Yeah. Thank you very much.
Unusually so, that business roundtable, it's funny, having been to so many of those meetings, I mean, that is going to be a serious forum that he's going to have to face tomorrow.
All right, Jeff, thank you very much.
Peter Tuchman is with me now, as I promised, the New York Stock Exchange trader.
People -- people nicknamed you Einstein. And it's not --
PETER TUCHMAN, NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE TRADER: You nicknamed me Enstein.
BURNETT: -- not because of how you look. I nicknamed you Einstein.
All right, here we are tonight, though down, down a thousand. But the volatility feels, you know, reminiscent of the financial crash of these, you know, these times when there was just such incredible uncertainty. Nobody knew every day.
I remember looking up, it'd be up 600, down 800 within minutes. It feels a bit like that in terms of the uncertainty.
TUCHMAN: So, look, let's go back to last week because look he's only been in office for really a month or so.
BURNETT: Yeah.
TUCHMAN: Right? And I think we could go back three weeks ago. It was the first time that the words came out of his mouth, tariffs. And the first day when he said it was the middle of the day, it was about 2:30 in the afternoon. And he said, we're imposing 25 percent tariffs on Canada and Mexico. And the market sort of plummeted about 70 handles on the S&P 500, and it sort of stabilized a little bit. But since then, he's -- you know, he has a very sort of a bullish manner.
You know, it's sort of a sparring and, you know, and it could be that he's trying to call people to action and sort of set up a line of negotiation. But that's all fine and good except when you do that continuously. We've done it now for three weeks and the market is not responding well to it.
The New York stock exchange particularly, I mean, all markets I guess Nasdaq as well, obviously can handle anything except surprises, right? It's a -- it's a matter of how the information is disseminated.
You remember back when you were on the floor? Let's go back to Bernanke. Let's say, you know, when they were talking about information that impacted global economies and markets, it would happen before the market opened, after the market closed, or around a news conference.
It was not being done --
BURNETT: It was done with careful consideration.
TUCHMAN: Exactly. And that's not his style. And we know that I can go back. Look, I have a bit of a photographic memory. I can go back to Trump 1.0 the first time when he was president. They -- they were at Davos and he started talking about tariffs and China for the first time in his that first administration, the market sold off 1,400 points. It was 11:00 in the morning.
And by the end of the day, he had sort of changed his whole posture. And we were up 20 -- we were up 1,400. We had a intraday reversal of almost 2,800 points.
BURNETT: Which is incredible. I mean, 1,800, that is incredible.
What I'm curious about now though, is right, markets don't like uncertainty. But now you have -- he comes in, he says one thing, then he delays it. Then he -- but there's also an issue with crying wolf, right?
At some point, you want to be able to know that when the president of United States says something, that it means something. And having that be called into question in and of itself can be a concern. So, so do people believe him now when he says he will do something because his tariffs are on again, off again, off and delayed (ph)?
TUCHMAN: I think it -- it started a little bit last week because there was one day where he had been pulling and pushing and sort of changing his mind a number of times and, and at one point, he sort of -- he said it was the day, I believe it was Thursday when he said that he had -- he had signed a couple of executive orders --
BURNETT: Right.
TUCHMAN: -- that were going to be -- that were actually bullish for the market. And the market turned around because we had sold off radically, because there were rumors that we were going to have the tariffs imposed more immediately than we thought. And then he changed it and said, you know what? Ive just signed two executive orders. The market rallied a little bit, and then it broke down further.
And that -- that -- we ended up down quite a lot on that Thursday. And it was almost that people were already jaded by these comments that, you know what? The investment and trading community are not -- not, you know, unintelligent people.
[19:10:02]
They are -- they're listening to every word that comes out of his mouth.
And when you're being, you know, given mixed messages all the time over and over again, eventually they're going to overreact. You want to not be in the market for the moment or, you know, you react aggressively, which is what we're seeing today.
BURNETT: Yeah. All right. Well, Peter, thank you very much. I appreciate it. It's important you're down there in the in the economic the market trenches.
TUCHMAN: I think -- I just want to say one thing. I mean, I think it's really important to note that my gut is that things will stabilize.
BURNETT: Yeah.
TUCHMAN: You know, I think, you know, we talk about recession. It's a -- it's a terrible word to throw out in this. And there's no sign of that, right? You know, when -- when the Federal Reserve changed their guidance for 2025 and 2026, cutting interest rates from 4 to 2, it was a function of the fact that the economy was doing better. So he was handed a solid good economy, good market. And I think that will come back around.
BURNETT: Well, we'll see what it was. And was, when you look at all those numbers, was handed a solid good economy. The facts matter.
Peter, thank you very much.
TUCHMAN: My pleasure.
BURNETT: All right. OUTFRONT now, the former Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty and Jamal Simmons.
So, Governor, you know, you heard what Peter just said. And it's as apolitical as an operator as you get, right, saying, look, Trump was handed a good economy, a solid one. He -- Peter, hope -- luckily, I hope he's right, doesn't see a recession coming now.
But this whiplash, this back and forth that's happening right now, Governor, it isn't a good thing. It isn't a good thing. Is there anybody that can explain or get through to him on that?
TIM PAWLENTY (R), FORMER MINNESOTA GOVERNOR: Well, I was always taught, Erin, to measure twice and cut once, and that would be a good rule for tariff imposed to follow as well, because markets, as you just noted, don't like uncertainty. They don't like chaos.
If you're going to deploy a lot of capital, make big economic bets, you need to know the rules of the road. And you got to have certainty. It would be in everybody's best interest for this administration to decide, are they going to put them on or not, and then keep with it? Because this uncertainty is causing a lot of havoc, and part of what's going on with the market reflects that.
BURNETT: So, Jamal, at the same time here, you got a new prime minister in Canada. So you've got a new boogeyman for Trump there with Trudeau gone. Mark Carney is going to be the new prime minister. And in his victory speech, he said he's going to go toe to toe with Trump tariff or tariff, absolutely no break in policy. Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK CARNEY, CANADA'S INCOMING PRIME MINISTER: My government will keep our tariffs on until the Americans show us respect. We didn't ask for this fight, but Canadians are always ready when someone else drops the gloves. So the Americans, they should make no mistake -- in trade, as in hockey, Canada will win.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So, Jamal, where does that put us? I mean, you know, yes, he was, I think purposefully using an analogy that could make people smile. But he was deadly serious at the same time.
JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: He was. You know, Erin, the North American market is one of the big -- is the biggest market in the world. The trade that goes across these borders from -- I'm in Detroit today, the trade from Detroit to Canada is just phenomenal in terms of the United States and the amount of value that's happening.
And for us to be in a trade war with our closest economic partner is really doesn't make any sense when there's not really a reason for it. And so what is really amazing about this particular moment is you have a president of the United States who seems to be more preoccupied by some of the ideological fights that he's picking up with different parts of the political economy.
But the markets aren't ideological. The markets care more about like, what's going to happen and who's making money and what's the growth like. And they're also short term responsive.
So, you know, I was in the government both in the Clinton administration and in the Biden administration. These were very coordinated statements that would happen. You'd have a conversation in the morning. The meetings start very early in the morning talking about these -- these economic issues. And by the time the president or the vice president or a commerce secretary says something, they've been really thought through, that doesn't seem to be what's happening in the Trump administration seems to be a little more shoot from the hip. And I can't imagine markets like that.
BURNETT: Well, I mean, you had governor. So the commerce secretary went on morning show yesterday with Kristen Welker at NBC. And when she asked, should Americans brace for a recession, he responds, absolutely not.
Trump goes on in an interview with Maria Bartiromo. And when she asks, he gives this really weird pause, which is very unlike him, and then says, well, I think there's going to be, you know, a period of transition, you know, I mean, he took the time to think about it and not take the recession off the table.
What do you make of his response to that question?
PAWLENTY: Well, I think it's realistic. I think when you look at the last economic report that we have, again, its preliminary, but the unemployment ticked up a little. The stock market has dropped precipitously since the beginning of the year. We have lingering concerns about inflation. The stock market was arguably overvalued as of, you know, a month ago.
And so it's hard to predict a recession. And so I think it's appropriate for the president and policymakers to be truthful and be pragmatic. The odds of a recession are not small.
[19:15:01]
It could happen. But it's very difficult to predict.
BURNETT: So, Jamal, is it possible that as this ticks through, though, that, you know, you've got a trade war. Once you have a trade war, it doesn't in a sense matter really who started it. You suddenly have tariffs being imposed on Americans. That makes Americans upset.
Is it possible that this turns back in Trump's favor, from a political point of view, that more people start to back him on the issue?
SIMMONS: I think there may be some short term benefit the president is trying to lean into and say, look, we're going to have some short term pain for some long term gain. The problem is the American public are already suffering from high prices. That's one of the reasons why this president won his election was because America wanted him to do something about high prices.
Now, if his rhetoric and his tariff policies start to then increase prices even more, I cant imagine how that's good politically.
What usually happens is the president is the cheerleader for the American economy. The president is the one who buttresses markets, who holds people up, holds the spirits up, and keeps it moving. Other people in the government, maybe, are the ones who give a little more leavened conversation and settle the horses a little bit.
But the president is the American cheerleader. That's not what we're seeing. I'm not sure what strategy they're having, because it often seems like there is no strategy in the Trump administration.
BURNETT: Certainly, they do contradict each other when it comes to members of the administration, which is another bad thing for the markets.
All right. Thank you both. I appreciate it.
And next breaking news, Elon Musk pointing the finger at Ukraine after massive outages at X, while bragging about challenging Putin to a one on one physical combat fight. Plus, an OUTFRONT exclusive. J.D. Vance's cousin is my guest tonight.
After spending years of fighting for Ukraine, he just got back. He's not holding back when it comes to criticizing the vice president on the policy.
And our file uncovering -- uncovering some shocking tweets from one of Marco Rubio's top deputies, insults and false rumors. They're pretty incredible to think that somebody could say this about you, and then you actually still have the person as your number two. It's unbelievable.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:21:18]
BURNETT: Tonight, you are a traitor. That is an exact quote. Those are the words of Elon Musk attacking Senator Mark Kelly, who also happens to be a veteran combat pilot. Musk called Kelly a traitor after Kelly posted about visiting Ukraine and backing Ukraine's war against Vladimir Putin.
It comes as Musk is also seeming to blame Ukraine for a massive cyber attack that rendered his social media platform unusable for much of the day. This does come a day, though, after Musk made a very public show of defending Ukraine, taking the time to remind the world that he once, quote, challenged Putin to one on one physical combat over Ukraine.
And it is true, Musk jokingly did that. He tweeted out a photoshopped picture of a shirtless Putin back in the day, riding a bear wielding a flamethrower with a caption that read and himself with a flamethrower. The caption was: choose your fighter.
Now, perhaps it isn't surprising that Musk, who does like to wave a chainsaw around in public we've seen him do that, would want to get into a contest with Putin, someone who likes to be photographed looking strong, sometimes shirtless, you know, riding the horse. You've all seen these many pictures, right? Fishing, holding a rifle, overpowering his opponent in a judo match.
But, of course, a challenge on Twitter to physical combat is deeply unserious. It makes a mockery of suffering and dying. But one thing is true. As Trump turns from Ukraine, and that is that Elon Musk is still providing Starlink. And he is right that Ukraine needs that to fight, and he has not pulled back on Starlink.
And despite calling combat veteran Senator Kelly a traitor for supporting Ukraine today, Musk has not yet pulled Starlink. And that is a crucial action, something that is front and center. As secretary Rubio is about to meet Ukrainians in Saudi Arabia, Zelenskyy is there but not joining those talks, we understand.
Alex Marquardt is also there OUTFRONT in Jeddah where the talks are about to begin.
And, Alex, Secretary Rubio leading these discussions. So he's there. And interestingly, the headline that came out is that he expects Ukraine to talk about the concessions its willing to make to Russia. What are you learning?
ALEXANDER MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, there's definitely a tougher approach for Ukraine than there is for Russia, Erin. This meeting tomorrow is as much about getting the U.S./Ukraine relationship back on track after that disastrous meeting in the Oval Office a week and a half ago, as it is about trying to find some peace deal between Ukraine and Russia.
We did hear from Secretary Rubio on his way into Jeddah, saying that he's hopeful for a good meeting tomorrow. He says that he will be in listening mode. He wants to hear answers from the Ukrainians.
He wants to hear about difficult decisions that they are willing to make concessions. They're willing to give concessions, he says. Like the Ukrainians, like the Russians will. But we have not heard any kind of concessions that the Russians, they say they are willing to make.
Rubio says he wants to hear about the decisions that are in the realm of the possible. So kind of on on a broad scale, they won't be delving into specific details, he says. They won't be pulling out maps and drawing lines on the map, but also at issue here, Erin, is that key military and intelligence assistance for Ukraine that is now on hold, that has been frozen by the Trump administration, that could be released. Rubio says if the meeting goes well tomorrow.
So this is going to this is about getting the Ukrainians to the table. It's about eventually getting the Russians to the table. Much tougher approach with the Ukrainians than the Russians. But eventually they're trying to figure out a way to bridge the two sides, bring them together and figure out a solution. But it's going to be a very long road, Erin.
BURNETT: All right, Alex, thank you very much.
And, Alex, as I said, in Jeddah ahead of those meetings, which begin in just a few hours now.
John Bolton is OUTFRONT now, former Trump national security adviser and former ambassador to the United Nations.
[19:25:02]
And, Ambassador Bolton, I appreciate your time.
So, Secretary Rubio says that a crucial part of this is figuring out what concessions Ukraine will make to Russia, which is it just a way of posing that it seems that there's a real tipping of the scales here already, right. What concessions is Ukraine going to make? How do you see it?
JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Yeah, I think the only explanation to talk about any of this in public is to put more pressure on Ukraine, to make more concessions. You don't have to talk about what's going on in diplomatic consultations, especially very sensitive ones, if you don't have to.
When I was U.S. ambassador to the U.N., we were constantly being asked about this Security Council resolution or whatnot. And if you have a strategy to say something, then say it. And if you don't, you just say consultations continue and it drives the press crazy. But that's too bad. If you want to make progress --
BURNETT: Right.
BOLTON: -- silence is typically the best way to do it.
BURNETT: So, you know, Trump has called Zelenskyy a dictator. He's falsely claimed he had a 4 percent approval rating. That was that horrible incident in the oval office, the humiliation for the world to see you.
You were there through early parts of this, right back when Trump and Zelenskyy were interacting on a totally different issue, right? We're talking Burisma and Hunter Biden. Why is Trump doing this now, Ambassador, do you think?
BOLTON: Well, because international relations to Trump are all a matter of personalities. He doesn't understand geopolitical realities. He just knows that if he's good friends with Vladimir Putin and the United States has good relations with Russia, right? What else matters other than how he gets along with the Russian leader?
And conversely, if he doesn't like a foreign leader, then that means relations between the countries are bad. Trump has never, ever forgiven Zelenskyy for the perfect phone call that led basically to Trump's first impeachment. Notwithstanding, Zelenskyy tried to get a better relationship over the past six months that obviously failed, totally.
So he's taking it out on Zelenskyy. It's very bad news for Ukraine in these coming negotiations.
BURNETT: So I mentioned Elon Musk coming into this. You know, that silly thing about a combat, you know, physical combat with Putin. But then the reality, right? The substantive reality, which is that Starlink is still being provided, right. So the U.S. has pulled, you know, intelligence, U.S. funding has stopped, Zelenskyy has been humiliated in the oval office.
And, Musk, despite calling Senator Kelly a traitor for supporting Ukraine, is still providing Starlink, even though he said that the U.S. should leave NATO. He says Zelenskyy wants a forever war, right? So he's saying something, but he's doing something else right now.
And I'm just curious, Ambassador Bolton, whether you think Elon Musk is good or bad on net for Ukraine right now?
BOLTON: Well, I think he's bad because I think -- I think he is totally aligned with Trump's foreign policy. Trump said in the State of the Union that the war was senseless. Musk has said essentially the same thing. If it were a senseless war, of course, the easy thing to do would be to resolve it.
The Ukrainians have a different view. They think they're fighting for their freedom and their independence, words that really should resonate with Americans. Apparently they don't for Trump and Musk, but they still do with Ukrainians.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Ambassador Bolton, I appreciate your time. And thank you, sir.
BOLTON: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, an OUTFRONT exclusive, I'm going to talk to J.D. Vance's cousin. He fought on the front lines for Ukraine just back here in the past month. And tonight he's calling the vice president one of Putin's, quote, useful idiots.
Plus, Bill Weir on the backlash over Trump's sweeping cuts now growing in a state that Trump won.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're getting call after call. People are concerned.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:33:27]
BURNETT: Tonight, an OUTFRONT exclusive, J.D. Vance's cousin, my guest, and a former U.S. marine standing up to the vice president over his stance on Ukraine. Nate Vance is a Texas native. He fought on the front lines in Ukraine for nearly three years as part of the elite Da Vinci Wolves Battalion. Seeing some of the wars bloodiest, most horrific battles all the way from 2022 until just this January.
This video shows him in a trench as Russian artillery rain -- rounds were raining down on him and his battalion. These images show the two cousins back in the day vacationing together. Through the years, Nate and J.D. share grandparents. J.D.'s mother and Nate's father are siblings.
And Nate Vance is OUTFRONT now.
Nate, I really appreciate your -- your talking and I -- and I want to get to exactly why you're speaking out because I know you do so, after careful consideration. So, Nate, I know you call yourself a Republican leaning independent. I know you've been supported, supportive at times of the Trump administration. But on this issue of Ukraine, where you have put so much of your life over these past few years, do you think your cousin is misguided? How come?
NATE VANCE, J.D. VANCE'S COUSIN; FOUGHT ON FRONT LINES IN UKRAINE: Excuse me. Well, I think my experience in Ukraine has, given me a unique
perspective that most Americans don't have. There are certainly cultural differences both between the Ukrainians and Americans and the Russians. And I think if you try to deal with Russia through an American lens, it will come back to bite you. They don't necessarily think like we think. And I'm talking about their political class.
There's -- I've -- I've personally witnessed them shooting their own troops on enough occasions that it wasn't just an -- you know, an isolated incident. It's happened quite a bit enough to the point where you could consider it to be policy, if -- if troops are retreating.
So these people as a policy will eat their own. So they will not hesitate to eat an American president or an American vice president. They don't care what we think. They're not our allies, and they never will be, not at least for a generation.
BURNETT: I know that you've tried to reach out to your cousin since he took office, but haven't been successful. I mean, what were you planning to say to him? I mean, what do you want to say to him now, in this moment?
VANCE: Well, look, I mean, there's -- there's more than one reason why you could make the argument for supporting Ukraine. There's the kind of emotional argument, the human element argument part of it. Which is fine if that's -- if that's the argument you want to make in order to support Ukraine, then I support that.
There's also the element of how it will affect the United States long term, right? So if you're just more transactional in nature and you are concerned, what is the benefit for the United States? I don't think there's any scenario where a, you know, like if this war pauses and sanctions are lifted, you know, Russia has spent the last three years kind of beefing up their military industrial complex, and if you lift those sanctions, you're going to see a massive influx of funds into that military industrial complex, and they're going to build a war machine out of it, right? That's what they're going to do.
And the concept of an imperial -- an imperialistic, aggressive modernized military Russia, who has learned their lessons about modern combat, is problematic for our future. And if the Russians are given significant concessions in the ceasefire, they will spin that as a victory of sorts. But their view is they're not done. So to them, it's just a chance to regroup, build up and modernize, and they'll come back. And when they do come back, they'll be more of a problem than they are now.
Right now, they're at the weakest they will ever be. As soon as the ceasefire starts, they will immediately start to get stronger and continue to get stronger every day thereafter. So, the -- the way this ends is important.
BURNETT: You know, in that context, obviously. You I think I'm thinking of the moment when your cousin, Vice President Vance, publicly reprimanded Ukraine's president, right? It's an unforgettable moment in the Oval Office when -- when your cousin sitting on the couch and Zelenskyy is next to Trump sitting in those chairs.
Let me just play it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think it's disrespectful for you to come into the Oval Office and try to litigate this in front of the American media. You should be thanking the president for trying to bring an end to this conflict.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: J.D. Vance was seen as the -- I mean, widely seen as the instigator. You know, in that moment, right when he got, you know, you should show appreciation. And he was angry.
VANCE: Yeah.
BURNETT: You obviously have known him his whole life. Did it surprise you, his -- the way he acted in that moment?
VANCE: I was surprised, I think what surprised me the most was, regardless of the situation, there's a certain level of decorum that should be reached. And, you know, I'm not naive enough to think that, you know, national leaders don't debate behind closed doors. But when you do that and you publicly, you know, kind of ridicule someone in public that they have to almost defend themselves.
So it was just it was really disappointing to see it for me. I disagreed with that -- that tact.
BURNETT: Now --
VANCE: There's a -- there's a much more diplomatic way to say, wait, I think we're getting off on the wrong foot here. Maybe we can kind of, you know, readdress what our positions are and things like that. There's much, much better ways to handle that.
BURNETT: I know, Nate, that you and Vice President Vance have not spoken about this issue, right, since you've come back. But I know you've reached out to him.
I just -- I'm curious. You did share some photos of the two of you growing up at -- at his grandmother's house. He's in the superman shirt there, and the tractor. Then J.D. spent time with your family in California, and, you know. So these are all the times you spent together.
I mean, what was he like then, and how do you feel now that I guess I don't know how to put it, he's not returning your call on this issue that you know so much about?
VANCE: Well, I can't, in all fairness to J.D., say that he received that message and then ignored it. I can't -- I can't do that because I don't know that he got it. But I did reach out. But regardless of whether or not I reached out or not, I mean, he
definitely knew I was there and at no point tried to make contact, and there were ways to do that.
[19:40:08]
So when, you know, I'm -- if a wise person, if they're going to make a decision, tries to find every available piece of information to kind of come to a conclusion about something, and this is such a dramatic issue, such a serious issue, that, you know, why not seek out every piece of information? He certainly doesn't have to take my advice, but I do find it a little strange that he never sought the advice in the first place.
BURNETT: Well, Nate, we really appreciate your taking the time. Again, as I said to everybody, I know you did this after careful consideration, but we appreciate it. And thank you.
VANCE: No, I appreciate it, too. Thank you.
BURNETT: And next case, KFILE has uncovered posts from one of Marco Rubio's top deputies, posts questioning Rubio's intelligence. And that spread false rumors about his sexuality.
Plus, Trump vowed to help rebuild western North Carolina. But Trump's sweeping cuts now could have a crippling effect on communities that desperately need help. Our Bill Weir will take us there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:45:43]
BURNETT: Tonight, KFILE, uncovering a series of tweets from a top Marco Rubio deputy calling Rubio, quote, low IQ, and spreading false rumors about Rubio's sexuality.
Darren Beattie is one of Rubio's acting deputies at the State Department. It's an important job. He since deleted the tweets, but our KFILE, of course, found them.
And Andrew Kaczynski is OUTFRONT.
Andrew, you know this matters. You're looking at a department, you know, in crisis with all of the cuts and trying to find stability to have this sort of thing happening.
What exactly did you find that Darren Beattie had posted and then deleted about Marco Rubio?
ANDREW KACZYNSKI, CNN KFILE SENIOR EDITOR: And, yeah, what's interesting about this is this isn't some low level staffer. This is one of the most important jobs at the State Department. This is the undersecretary of state for public diplomacy. He's the person in charge of all public diplomacy for the State Department.
And the thing that's really clear from all of these deleted tweets is that he had a pretty deep disdain for Marco Rubio, calling him low IQ, spreading rumors that suggested that Rubio was gay. And I want people to look at that's totally unfounded, by the way. But I want people to look at just a couple of them.
Look at this one tweet that he sent on January 7th. He said: Forget Wainwright Park, forget the foam, forget the war promotion and the neocon sugar daddies. Forget the low IQ, forget the 2016 primary.
Rubio is tough on China and good for the military industrial complex. Would be a good dog. I'd vote for him.
He's obviously -- he's being facetious there, but two of these things are references to conspiracy theories, again, that are claiming that Rubio is gay, which is again, totally unfounded. This Wainwright Park, one, Wainwright Park --
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: Wainwright Park and foam.
KACZYNSKI: Wainwright park and then foam claimed that Rubio attended these gay foam parties. Again, totally unfounded. That's one of them. This other one that he sent right after that said, quote, what happens in the cabana stays in the cabana hashtag Rubio. He sent both of those tweets, by the way, on January 7th.
This is obviously right after the riot at the U.S. Capitol, which Rubio condemned. And then he sent another one showing they also disagreed over policy. He attacked Rubio and Ukraine when Rubio said that any chemical weapons or nuclear weapons used in Ukraine would be Russia, he wrote, I bet Rubio thinks Assad gassed his own people. Responding to Rubio, Assad obviously did gas his own people. That's also spreading a conspiracy theory.
So that's a little bit of what we found. And this is just some of the deleted tweets. There were a number of others.
BURNETT: And pretty shocking as to why he's in this position anyway. And that brings me to this, which is this isn't the first rodeo for Darren Beattie. He has a controversial past. In fact, it's not even the first time that you at KFILE have reported on him.
In fact, because of your reporting, the first Trump administration fired him. They fired him because of your reporting. Now he's back.
Tell us. Tell me more about this Darren Beattie.
KACZYNSKI: Yeah, that's right. He was a speech -- speech writer in the Trump White House in 2018. He was fired after I reported that he attended a conference that included white nationalists. In the seven years since he was fired in 2018, he has made racially charged comments. He's made misogynistic comments, he has spread conspiracy theorie.
He cheered on, we found, the riot at the U.S. Capitol. And then he later claimed the riot at the U.S. Capitol, which he had cheered on. He spread conspiracy theories that it was orchestrated by the U.S. government. One of the tweets from last year that got a lot of attention --
BURNETT: Yeah.
KACZYNSKI: I want people to take a look at it, he wrote, quote, competent white men must be in charge if you want things to work. Unfortunately, our entire national ideology is predicated on coddling the feelings of women and minorities and demoralizing competent white men. That's one of the tweets.
He also sent a string of tweets on January 6th that attacked lawmakers of color. These are just a few of them.
Look at them, he said, Mayor Bowser, that's the mayor of D.C., should take a knee as a sign of respect for MAGA. Tim Scott, African-American senator from South Carolina, Republican. He said Tim Scott needs to learn his place and take a knee to --
BURNETT: Learn his place.
KACZYNSKI: Learn his place and take a knee to MAGA. BLM must take a knee to MAGA. They must learn their place.
And then, Kay Cole James of Heritage Foundation needs to learn her place and take a knee to MAGA.
Those are all comments that he made about lawmakers of color.
BURNETT: So in a sense, it's shocking how Rubio would keep him if he knew some of this. I mean, he knew the competent white men stuff because he'd been fired for that the first time around, but maybe not the stuff about him personally.
[19:50:00]
Have they responded to your reporting?
KACZYNSKI: No response from Rubio, no response from the White House. Rubio did get asked about some of his controversial comments when he was first appointed. And some like, have you seen the tweets? And I think Rubio said, thanks everybody and went away.
But this is what Bettie said when we asked for comment. He sent a comment that said Secretary Rubio is 100 percent American First, and it is a tremendous honor to work for him and advancing President Trump's world historic agenda. So before thought, he was low IQ, spread rumors that he might be gay. Now he says he's 100 percent America first and great.
BURNETT: Right, rumors, which, you know, he has fostered in some of the dark corners of X. All right. Thank you very much, KFILE.
And next, Trump's cuts could have a devastating effect on one community ravaged by Hurricane Helene.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:55:24]
BURNETT: Tonight, DOGE is hiring. DOGE, Elon Musk, revealing tonight he has 100 people working for him, but he wants to double the headcount -- hiring there while firing everywhere else. It comes as a CNN investigation finds the massive cuts Musk is making with DOGE could have crippling effects, including in devastated areas of North Carolina, that are still reeling from Hurricane Helene.
Bill Weir is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll lift it up onto my knee and then kind of scoop into it.
BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's chilly and the leaves have yet to bud.
But these campers are giddy to spend four nights in Smoky Mountain nature.
HANSAL PATEL, HIKER: Pretty excited. Let's do this.
WEIR: Have you done anything like this before? No. Really.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like not at all.
PATEL: Not at all. I mean, we hike, right? But like. But this is the first time at a campsite.
WEIR: It's been almost six months since a monster named Hurricane Helene ripped through Appalachia, devastating mountain towns reliant on outdoor tourism.
Thousands of miles of roads and trails are impacted, right?
JOHN PATE, LEAD GUIDE, WILDLAND TREKKING, INTREPID TRAVEL: Yes, over I think it's 2,000 landslides.
A beautiful wide open view.
WEIR: John Pate guided the last group out before the storm hit, and then used his wilderness skills on a week of sleepless search and rescue, so now guiding the first trip back feels like a win.
PATE: To build that passion for a region that has been isolated in so many ways culturally, economically, geographically by hurricanes, it's a really big honor. Maybe second only to being able to help people during the floods themselves. WEIR: There is a lot of pristine wilderness, but some rivers in this
world famous whitewater spot are choked with debris. They've got whitewater guides out there trying to clean up, give them a paycheck. But there's so much uncertainty heading into a season so dependent on tourism.
CHRIS WEBSTER, CO-OWNER, GENERAL MANAGER, SECOND GEAR: I wanted to make it clear that Asheville is open.
WEIR: For over 20 years, the Second Gear was a Mecca for hikers and kayakers until Helene made it a metaphor for the increasing challenges of running an outdoor business on an overheating planet.
I remember your shop when it was down on the river, in a place like this wants to be down on the river.
WEBSTER: Oh my God, yeah, it was great. Yeah.
WEIR: Would you go back there if you could?
WEBSTER: Not a chance.
WEIR: Not a chance. You've been changed by --
WEBSTER: It rocked me, man.
SCOTT CUNDY, CO-FOUNDER, WILDLAND TREKKING, INTREPID TRAVEL: In the last three years, we've lost over $1 million to climate change related disasters.
WEIR: Scott Cundy is the co-founder of Wildland Trekking, which leads thousands of adventure trips a year in and around America's national parks. And in addition to the more dangerous climate events, he's worried that the threats and cuts from President Donald Trump and Elon Musk will lead to chaos in national parks this summer, and destruction to pristine lands forever.
CUNDY: We're getting call after call. People are concerned. Are the parks going to be open? You know, is -- is my trip going to run? Am I going to be able -- are we going to be able to get permits?
WEIR: And you got Canadian customers who just don't want to come.
CUNDY: We have -- Canadian customers that are flat out canceling. They don't feel safe in the United States. The ability to take care of these parks, the ability to have the law enforcement in place, the rangers in place to make sure these places are -- are well-stewarded, to me, that's -- what's most at risk right now, is that were going to open the floodgates to everybody coming, but were not going to have the infrastructure and the personnel to take care of the places.
WEIR: So in the meantime, they say it is still vital for folks of all skill sets to get together in nature, to remind yourself what's worth protecting.
PATE: We need people to come back because were having a hard time getting federal funds dispersed in the way they ought to be. And so we need more people to know that and talk about it. And we need them in the same way we've always needed them in that beauty in this place is a -- is in the eyes of the beholder.
The more people that look at it, they're kind to it and soft on it. They look at it. I think it makes the place more beautiful.
PATEL: Like the hiking community is unbelievable. Yes. Like we're walking past people with dogs and kids and family and they're all smiling and happy, helping each other out. So like, for us, this is what we want it to be like.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah!
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: And, Bill, you know, you look at the national parks, Smoky Mountain National Park there, there are impacts from DOGE cuts at national parks, I saw one recently, you know, visiting a national park. I mean, what -- but it's across the country.
WEIR: Across the country, a dozen people laid off in Smoky Mountains. That's the most popular one in the country. But it goes to the sequoias, Big Bend, Carlsbad Caverns. The summer reservation system at Yosemite is shut down.
And so the fear is its going to be anarchy.
BURNETT: Wow.
WEIR: During the first Trump administration, there was a government shutdown. They left the parks open. And so people were four wheeling through the Joshua Trees and across the Death Valley. And they're just worried that it'll just come unglued. And so and who will take care of these folks?
In some places, they're the only EMT for hundreds of -- or thousands of acres in any direction. So it remains to be seen if people rise up and say, these are our lands. This is America's best idea, the national parks.
BURNETT: Right.
WEIR: Let's not ruin them.
BURNETT: Right. Well, absolutely. And people that work there, they know it, they love it.
WEIR: Absolutely.
BURNETT: And there's something so incredible to visit a park and talk to a ranger or -- it's incredible.
All right. Thank you very much.
WEIR: You bet. BURNETT: And thanks so much to all of you.
Anderson starts now.
