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Erin Burnett Outfront
Stocks Nosedive As Trump Digs In And Threatens 200 Percent Tariff; Judge Slaps Down Trump; Michelle Obama Speaks Ou. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired March 13, 2025 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:34]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
Breaking news, stocks tumble into correction territory as Trump's dangerous trade war erupts, a war that now Tesla is coming out and saying is bad business. And tonight, the company has a message for Trump, stop the war. Wait until you hear who signed it.
Plus, breaking news, the White House fighting back after a judge ordered Trump to rehire tens of thousands of federal workers whose jobs were slashed.
And Michelle Obama tonight breaking her silence, speaking out, along with her brother, how she is getting through what she is calling, her words, tough times.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news, markets spiraling after Trump ups the ante and is vengeful and thoughtless trade war. The president of the United States threatening another 200 percent tariff today, because why not? Twenty, 50, 200? Why not?
And that's why the S&P 500 tonight is in correction territory. That means the drop of more than 10 percent from its peak. And that peak, its record was only one month ago. So that just downward ski slope. You see that's more than 10 percent in one month.
The Dow also plunging again today, down more than 500 points. This erratic trade war is the driving force behind the selloff.
Yet Trump tonight is standing firm.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, I'm not going to bend at all, aluminum or steel or cars. We're not going to bend.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Or 200 percent on European alcohol. He says he's not going to bend no matter what the market does, except for the fact that he has. He has announced, delayed or even completely backtracked on tariffs already five times. That's part of the reason the market is in such chaos. It's not just uncertainty of when the tariffs are going to hit, it's whether they will and when and where, and 25 and 50 and 200.
And what he has done already, and the total chaos created is now causing real pain.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): I haven't had a single business person or individual in my state come up to me and say, the tariffs are a good idea.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: It was Rand Paul who just added on Twitter: When the markets tumble like this in response to tariffs, it pays to listen.
Longtime financial analyst Art Hogan said the market is, quote, sick and tired of Trump's tariff chaos.
The CEO of BlackRock, the largest money manager in the world, Larry Fink, said the economy is weakening, his word, because of the trade war.
Yale business professor Jeffrey Sonnenfeld tracks a group of CEOs and says they had, quote, universal revulsion against the Trump economic policies.
Trump and his allies, though, are downplaying all of this. It's not just Trump, as you heard in the Oval Office today. The treasury secretary, Scott Bessent, said that the White House is not concerned.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT BESSENT, SECRETARY OF TREASURY: I'm not concerned about the -- a little bit of volatility over three weeks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: For some of the richest, many of them in the Trump cabinet, perhaps it's true, right? This is just a little volatility. But for most people in America, it's life and savings. It's their entire retirement.
But there is however one stock that Trump and Bessent would care about and that is Tesla. And today we got this. This is a letter.
An employee from Tesla sent this letter to Trump's trade representative warning that the administration that Trump's trade war is bad for business, writing, quote, past trade actions by the United States have resulted in immediate reactions by the targeted countries, including increased tariffs on EVs imported into those countries.
Now, one person familiar with this letter tells "The Financial Times" that the letter is actually, quote, a polite way to say that the bipolar tariff regime is screwing over Tesla. And this is important. Okay? Because remember I mentioned at the top of the show, I said, so here's a three page letter.
Look at the last page. It just ends. No one signed it.
"The Financial Times" reports that is because nobody wanted to get fired. So they wanted to send it, but they couldn't actually put their name on it because of fear of what would happen to them.
Now keep in mind, Tesla is a company that has lost half its value since Trump was elected, a company that JPMorgan just said has, quote, lost so much value so quickly that he could not think of anything like it in the history of the automotive industry -- nothing like it in terms of brand and stock erosion.
It is shocking and stunning what has happened. And the analyst says its everywhere, right? It's in the U.S., it's everywhere. It's revulsion against Tesla around the world right now.
It is something that Trump does care about. That's why he was pushing Teslas outside the White House.
[19:05:05]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I will say this one, the Cybertruck is very safe. It's very strong, heavy. It's all steel, stainless steel.
They have one which is $35,000, which is pretty low.
I love Tesla.
REPORTER: Which one did you buy?
REPORTER: Mr. President, which care are you going to buy?
TRUMP: The one I like is that one.
REPORTER: And how does this work?
TRUMP: I want that same color.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Tesla did fall again today.
To state the obvious, Trump's trade war is bad for Tesla like it is for so many other companies. And that may be something that gets Trump to think twice.
Jeff Zeleny is OUTFRONT live outside the White House.
And, Jeff, correction territory on Wall Street. It is a word, but it's a word with meaning. It means a 10 percent or greater drop from the top. And that was only a month ago. So it's a -- it's a sudden and sharp plunge for stocks.
Any reaction tonight from Trump?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Erin, not specifically to the correction territory or the falls today in the market. But when we talked to White House officials, they will say the market will go up, it will go down. But they are playing the long game, taking the long view here. And they say that Wall Street will ultimately see the gains and successes of this administration.
But they always point to the first administration. When you talk to every single administration official, they point to the success of the first administration, not the policies of the current administration. So that is a bit of a disconnect.
There is no doubt about it. But Erin, I noticed something else from the president today when he was meeting with the NATO secretary general in the Oval Office. He was asked about this trade war, the tariffs on again, off again, the champagne, the wine, the 200 percent threat of a tariff. And he said this -- he said, yes, there will be short disruptions, but it won't be for very long.
That was the first time, really. I think we've heard the president say it won't be for very long. That, I think, is something that now we have a measure of time. How long will that actually be?
Was this a "mission accomplished" moment? Was this a "read my lips" moment? We, of course, shall see how this goes.
But as of now, the president is embracing these -- these trade policies. In fact, looking forward to doing more. So there's no sign of reboot here at all, even as there is worry across the party.
And you've heard it from Rand Paul there. He's echoing what many Republican lawmakers are actually not saying.
So as of now, though, the White House is not pushing back on any corrections. But the market, of course, is -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Jeff Zeleny, thank you very much at the White House.
So let's go now to the former Democratic Senator Jon Tester; Saira Malik, head of equities and fixed income and chief investment officer at Nuveen; and the former Republican Governor Mark Sanford.
So I really appreciate all of you.
Senator Tester, can I start with you? You know, you got the threat today from Trump of another 200 percent tariff that was on European alcohol. That right now is currently a threat. But as I -- as I said, if you go back and look at when he's promised, when he's pulled back, when he's adjusted, were now at five times.
How -- when you -- when you look at the impact of this so far, they say it's just going to be temporary, short term. How bad is it right now when it comes to the economy?
JON TESTER, FORMER DEMOCRATIC SENATOR: Well, I think it's really bad. All you got to do is look at the market. But the truth is, is that if you're a businessman, you understand that what you need in the marketplace is certainty. And over the last two months, we have seen anything but certainty come from this administration.
And the result has been inflation. And it's in the stock market, with the bottom falling out of it, and people's retirement savings being depleted and being depleted quickly.
Look, everybody told the president, at least most of the people told the president, except the ones he's surrounding with, the tariffs were a bad idea, and he decided to do it. He applied it to everybody, even our best trading partners. He applied him to.
And now, we're seeing the results of that. And you cannot have the kind of disruption in the marketplace that we've seen over the last seven weeks and expect to see anything different than this.
BURNETT: Right. In fact, you know, you say including our best trading partners say starting with our best trading partners. When you look at Canada and Mexico in Europe.
Governor Sanford, you know, Scott Bessent, the treasury secretary, you heard his words there, quote, I'm not concerned about a little bit of volatility over three weeks.
You know, maybe, maybe he's looking at it as, oh, look, the market had gone up a lot. And what's 10 percent. And that -- that -- that sort of seems to be what he's saying.
Does he have a point?
MARK SANFORD (R), FORMRE U.S. CONGRESSMAN & GOVERNOR OR SOUTH CAROLINA: No. One, it's not believable given the degree to which the Trump administration last go round, over which I overlapped a couple of years, incessantly talked about the market and what it was doing next.
So, one, it's not believable. Two, this is not volatility. This is a fall, as the senator just pointed out. Again, this is not up and down, little vacillation. This is again a fall as you've correctly pointed out of 10 percent.
And finally, I think it needs to be remembered where it's going to have impact.
[19:10:03]
I mean, it really double sized impact in that if you look at the top 10 percent of the income brackets out there now account for about 50 percent of the consumer spending. And consumer spending is about 70 percent of the American economy. What does that translate to? If their portfolios are falling,
deteriorating? That so-called wealth effect is disappearing. And all of a sudden, they're going to say, let's put the brakes on this or that, and you're going to see a material impact in the real economy that impacts everybody's not just their 401(k)s, but everybody's business, where they work or where they're employed or where they're hoping to get a job.
I mean, this can have real impact. So I think he's 100 percent wrong on three counts.
BURNETT: So, Saira, where -- where are we in this right now? When you look at the effect on people who are seeing this in their retirement accounts or, and even overseas, these boycotts that we're hearing about. I mean, I'm just thinking what JPMorgan said about Tesla that they've never in the history of a brand seen a brand get hit in so many regions at the same time. And obviously, in this case, because of its association with the Trump administration.
I mean, where are we in this, Saira?
SAIRA MALIK, HEAD OF EQUITIES AND FIXED INCOME, NUVEEN: Well, market reaction has been very swift. The S&P 500 is down 10 percent in just 16 trading days. And that's for three reasons, the impact of DOGE, also the economic growth scare and the tariff roller coaster.
What we're worried about with DOGE is that if you look at the employment markets, about half of payrolls that have been created since 2019 were government payrolls. Now for tariffs, of course, the concern is that they will re-accelerate inflation, which is already sticky in the U.S.
And finally, the economic growth scare is very serious. Just already first quarter GDP is expected to be down about 2 percent. And if you get two quarters of negative GDP, that is a recession. So it could become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Now as for the markets, the unfortunate news is that we came into this year with the S&P 500 trading at a 20 percent premium, even after a 10 percent drop, it's still at a premium of about 8 percent. So even if we do get a bounce from here, I think investors are most likely to sell that rally.
BURNETT: So, all right, which -- which obviously is -- is grim when you think about the implications.
Senator, I'm curious though, something Saira just said she was talking about what the implications of the payroll, the payroll creation, half of the payrolls. Correct me if I'm wrong, Saira, created were in government. Now, obviously, when you lose some of those jobs, Senator, that's going to have a real negative impact.
But team Trump would say, and those who support him would say, but they don't want payrolls in the government. Those are bad payrolls. That's how they would say, that's not -- those aren't jobs worth creating. What do you say to that, Senator? TESTER: I would say two -- I would say two things.
Number one this administration has totally blown the opportunity to make government more efficient by going in with a -- with a -- with a meat cleaver and just hack up agencies.
Number two, many of those people perform very, very, very important services. And if you privatize those, no, you lose control. And I am here to tell you it's going to cost more money, not less. There's plenty of examples of it.
The Mission Act is a prime example. The fastest growing part of the V.A. budget. Why? Because we privatizing V.A. health care and its costing us more money, not less.
And so I would just say those jobs are not jobs where people are in the back room smoking a cigarette. These folks are doing important jobs. And if they're not there to do them, they've got to privatize them, to do them. And it costs even more money.
BURNETT: Governor?
SANFORD: I, humbly, 100 percent totally disagree with you on that one. I mean, if you look at the baseline over the next ten years, we're talking about $86 trillion of spending, right? And what's built into the reconciliation, these, you know, quote, horrible cuts is about $2 trillion, which is to say about 2 percent.
If you go talk to farmers in Montana or business people in South Carolina or go home. Honey, I'm home. You know, I think we might have to cut the budget by 2 percent. People would say, I can live with that.
But that's what this whole fight is about in Washington, D.C. And mind you, what's built into that ten year plan is spending $13 trillion -- trillion -- in interest. And about double that in adding to the national debt.
I mean, think about this. Just in the month of February, we spent about $68 billion in interest costs. That means every South Carolinian will have to work for the next two years just to pay the interest on the national debt.
We have an unsustainable federal ship. That's a whole different debate, but --
BURNETT: Well, it is, but it's why -- but it's why there are, you know, that's why everybody can agree on waste, fraud and abuse. I mean, I mean, I'm just saying that's -- that's right. Then from there, paths start to diverge.
Saira, I'm curious as to your gut on one thing, and that is all these cuts specifically when the IRS, right? And they're saying the IRS needs to be slashed.
[19:15:03] There are those who say, but that means whatever you save in cuts, you are going to lose way, way more because you're not going to have enforcement. You're not going to have money coming in, you're going to have more tax evasion.
Do you think that's a legitimate fear?
MALIK: Well, I think that that just brings to we need there needs to be balance here in terms of if there's going to be cuts from the government and the government services and more of a shift to the individual and the private economy. Are we doing that too quickly and are the swings too wild?
And that's why the markets reacting the way it is. The tariff rhetoric, the wild swings in movements on tariffs has been -- has added lack of clarity for the markets. And then if were shifting away from government and the payrolls that we've created over the past 5 to 6 years, how quickly can we move that to the private economy?
Now, remember, I think there was a little talk about the consumer earlier. The earlier the consumer has been what has driven this positive economic cycle. So inflation is a real issue for the consumer all the way from food prices that they're paying to insurance prices to auto prices.
So the consumer is going to be very important to make sure. And we are already seeing signs of that consumer pulling back. We're hearing that from corporates and companies at investor conferences as recently as this week.
BURNETT: Right, which is crucial. And I mean more than a canary in a coal mine, but something everyone should be heeding and hearing.
Saira, thank you very much. Governor Sanford, Senator Tester, I appreciate all of you so much.
And next, a federal judge tearing into Trump's team, saying the administration now, as of tonight, has to rehire tens of thousands of federal workers that we're fired. So, so this one has a crucial next step. That's next.
Plus, Trump touting his peace deal for Ukraine tonight though Putin and his propaganda machine are making it loud and clear that they are not on the same page.
And outrage boiling over tonight at a Republican town hall. Voters making it clear how they feel about Trump gutting the government.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CONSTITUENT: You're lying. I'm a veteran. You don't give me a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) about me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [19:21:21]
BURNETT: Breaking news. A federal judge slapping Trump down, ordering the president to immediately rehire thousands of federal workers who were fired.
Now, the ruling is a loss for Trump. It covers six agencies, so that includes the Defense Department, the V.A. and Treasury. Tonight, the White House, though, is holding firm, fighting back. They call the ruling absurd and unconstitutional. So, obviously, it's going to proceed up the courts.
OUTFRONT now, Ryan Goodman, OUTFRONT, legal analyst and coeditor in chief at "Just Security'.
So, Ryan, the judge didn't mince words today, right? In the ruling, the quote was, it's a sad day when our government would fire some good employee and say it was based on performance when they know good and well, it's a lie. That's a sham. That from the District Judge William Alsup.
So I guess the first question is because the Trump team is saying it's unconstitutional. So this is going to go up. Is this ruling going to hold or and -- and in the meantime, as this goes up through the courts, do those workers actually get their jobs back?
RYAN GOODMAN, CO-EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, JUST SECURITY: It looks like they'll get their jobs back. The appeal that the Trump administration will try to do is to say, can you just stop the judges order while we litigate this? But it's a pretty strong order, and the judge is pretty incensed that he says that as well, that the government misrepresented documents to him. In fact, says that you gave me press releases and sham documents.
So it's a very dramatic moment today. And it does. And he does say these people need to be immediately reinstated.
BURNETT: And so we see if the White House does it. I guess this is one of those moments where we see defy or don't defy.
GOODMAN: That's one -- it's one of those moments. I think they'll first ask him if he could stay his order. Then they'll ask the appeals court.
BURNETT: All right. And I want to get to where it eventually could go, which is the Supreme Court in a moment.
But first, you have been extensively tracking these cases, your team. I mean, this is the destination right now out there for who is tracking every single one of these cases on your website. So, every legal challenge to Trump's agenda, it's there on just security.
You've monitored a total of 119 cases, 119 cases on the 53 days Trump spent in office. So what's the scorecard right now? And I know obviously, you know, things go up through the courts right. So it's not a final scorecard. GOODMAN: Right.
BURNETT: But right now.
GOODMAN: If you just look at the instances in which a judge had to rule, the Trump administration is losing 2 to 1 essentially. So it's about 29 cases that the plaintiffs have succeeded on and about 16 cases that the administration has succeeded on. That's not a good record for the government. And even the ones in which the government kind of wins, it's not -- it might be a temporary win.
One of the most important cases before Judge Chutkan, she says, okay, I'm going to give it to the government on this temporary restraining order. But she very strongly signals that when it comes to the merits of that opinion, she's going to rule for the plaintiffs. And the merits of that case is about whether or not Musk can even survive in his current position.
BURNETT: All right. So then eventually things these things go to the Supreme Court. That's when you get to the ultimate test moment, right, to -- to -- but also what the Supreme Court will do. So they've -- they've filed -- the Trump administration has a series of emergency appeals with the Supreme Court, one of them about birthright citizenship. So, going straight to the Supreme Court that he says he should be allowed to end it. It's, of course, in the Constitution.
And he was caught on a hot mic. The context of this on the night of the State of the Union saying this to Chief Justice John Roberts, right after he had addressed Congress, here's Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Thank you again. Thank you again. Won't forget it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Won't forget it. Now, it's unclear what specifically obviously that refers to, but what happens when all these get to the Supreme Court?
GOODMAN: That's the big question. So for some of these cases, it should be that the court, like on birthright citizenship, should just stick with its settled precedent in which this is not even a strong case or a winnable case --
BURNETT: Because it's in the Constitution.
GOODMAN: It's in the Constitution. The Supreme Court has affirmed it. Judges across the board have all ruled against the administration, one judge even saying, where were the lawyers in the room when you guys decided to do this on trying to strip birthright citizenship.
[19:25:11]
These will be test cases for the court. So if the court were to go in a different direction, we would all think very differently about what's happening. And I think Justice Roberts or Chief Justice Roberts has to be worried about the institutions legitimacy, especially after that joint address to Congress when the president is seen thanking him, which is not something that ordinarily would happen between a president and a Supreme Court chief justice.
BURNETT: Right. All right. Well, thank you very much, Ryan Goodman. As I said, the place to see the latest every single win, loss as this goes up through the courts is -- Just Security. So thanks so much.
GOODMAN: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, Putin appearing today beside the very leader who was the one who helped launch his invasion into Ukraine. So is that what he really thinks about a ceasefire?
Plus, Michelle Obama is speaking out tonight weighing in for the first time in the past few months. There's one name, though, one name she's not mentioning tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:30:39]
BURNETT: Breaking news, President Trump saying the U.S. has a, quote, great relationship with Kim Jong Un. This as another strongman Vladimir Putin appeared with the Belarusian leader Lukashenko.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): I have reservations. Obviously, I fully support the proposal. But there are a lot of things which we still have to discuss.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Well, Putin's words don't make it clear enough and, you know, his propaganda machine is in overdrive, it's not just that he appeared with Lukashenko today.
Of course, Russian state media is saying that Russia has absolutely no reason to agree to a ceasefire right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OLGA SKABEYEVA, RUSSIAN STATE TV HOST (through translator): The main concern for everyone who's rooting for our country is that at the very moment that we are succeeding, and they are obviously failing, by them I mean Ukrainian armed forces, on what grounds should we agree to a ceasefire?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: We're hearing that again and again from the main faces on Russian state television. And the Ukrainian President Zelenskyy is translating all of this very clearly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Putin, of course, is afraid to tell President Trump directly that he wants to continue this war, that he wants to kill Ukrainians.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Fred Pleitgen joins me now from Moscow. He is there tonight. And, Fred, the eyes of the world are on where you are, where Vladimir Putin, of course, will be. Trump's envoy, Steve Witkoff, is there. Putin and Lukashenko were meeting earlier today.
So what is the reaction where you are tonight?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Erin, there's a lot of things that have been happening here on the ground in Moscow. You're absolutely right. Steve Witkoff, the U.S. envoy, was here on the ground. It's unclear whether he was, whether he's still here and whether or not he was able to meet Vladimir Putin. We certainly haven't gotten any readout or anything else like that.
But I think one of the things that certainly has become clear throughout the course of the day is that at this point in time, the Russians don't seem to be in the position to want to have a ceasefire imminently, to have one quickly, because, of course, one of the things we have to keep in mind is that the Ukrainians signed on to an immediate ceasefire, and then sorting out all of the issues between the two countries that have led to the war in the first place. And the Russians are essentially saying they want all of that to be sorted out before they would agree to a ceasefire.
Vladimir Putin, mentioning many different things, like for instance, saying, look, the line of contact, who's going to monitor that? Who's going to make sure the Ukrainians don't rearm themselves? What happens to the Kursk region where the Ukrainians still have a small foothold?
And of course, one of the things that we saw in that media report and that absolutely, the Russians have been saying throughout the course of the day, is that they believe if there is a ceasefire, that it would first and foremost benefit the Ukrainians, that they could reposition their military, that they could rearm themselves, that they could, for instance, dig trenches. And so the Russians are saying for them, they don't believe that an immediate ceasefire would be in their best interest.
Now, of course, Vladimir Putin still says he thinks it's a great idea. He wants a ceasefire. But at this point in time, it certainly doesn't look as though it's something that's going to happen very quickly -- Erin.
BURNETT: Yeah, well, of course, that was what was advertised. But -- but here we are facing reality.
Fred, thank you very much. As I said, live in Moscow.
And OUTFRONT now, the Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna of California. He's a member of the armed services committee. So, Congressman, you know, you're watching this from that perspective.
Trump was adamant and has been repeating that Putin wants peace, right? And yet here we are in this moment, Putin appears with the president of Belarus, which was the country Russian troops massed in before their invasion and came in down through Kyiv. He wears his military fatigues yesterday for the first time since a few months into the war.
Putin appeared in them. I mean, what -- what does all this say, Congressman?
REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): Well, what I don't understand is why Trump and Vance are using sticks when it comes to Zelenskyy and using carrots and soft language when it comes to Putin.
Look, I was one of the few people who -- with the congressional progressive caucus said that we should have diplomacy years ago. And I appreciate the desire for peace, but it has to be a just peace. It can't be telling Zelenskyy to give up part of his country, almost one fifth of it, which is what Putin wants.
[19:35:03]
And Trump and Vance have been pressuring Zelenskyy.
BURNETT: Is it, no matter what sort of a ceasefire it is, no matter what the terms are, Congressman, is the reality that the world needs to understand is that essentially, given what Putin has said repeatedly, right, about Ukraine not being a country and not being a people and being part of Russia, that whatever ceasefire is in the details, it's just a matter of time before he goes again.
KHANNA: Well, it depends on what the United States do. If we want to appease Putin and say, look, Putin -- Putin, just do whatever you want, then that's going to be the reality. And Zelenskyy will be forced by Trump and Vance to give up a fifth of the country. And Putin is going to continue to have threatens -- threaten expansionism.
If, on the other hand, we negotiate a just peace and make it clear that we have Ukraine's back, then we can bring peace and not have that threat of expansion.
BURNETT: So I want to ask you about something else today, since -- since you're from the great state of California, your governor, Gavin Newsom, has started a new podcast that's getting a lot of talk. He's been putting conservatives on. That's been the point that he said to talk to others.
So his second guest is Steve Bannon, who praised you, praised you as an economic populist. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE BANNON, FORMER TRUMP STRATEGIST: One of the best is Ro Khanna. Ro's economic patriotism, which we always kid him, is just ripping off Navarro, and my economic nationalism is -- is, you know, he's an economic populist. If you watch MSNBC and CNN, you never really see the populist on the economic side. You don't see the Ro Khannas getting the time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Congressman, of course, obviously, we see you regularly here on this show and this network. But what's your reaction to Bannon's praise? Would you say that you agree that you're just ripping off Navarro's and my economic nationalism?
KHANNA: Well, look, I think that here's the broader point. We've had jobs offshored. We've had communities hollowed out. We lost our steel industry, our aluminum industry, our shipbuilding industry.
And I have been very, very critical of that corporate offshoring and said that we need to rebuild our manufacturing base. And in that sense, Steve Bannon was right, that the manufacturing base was hollowed out by a governing class of 50 years that didn't know what they were doing for working class folks.
Now I have different solutions than Donald Trump and J.D. Vance. For example, we co-wrote a bipartisan chips act to bring semiconductors back to places like Ohio and Trump and Vance are ripping up that deal and say they don't want semiconductors. So we have a different vision than Trump and Vance on. I do. And many of the economic populists in our caucus do.
BURNETT: So Newsom's decision to sit down with Steve Bannon, as well as Charlie Kirk, who, of course, is a conservative, you know, who prides himself on being provocative, it has angered many in your party, Republicans like former congressman Adam Kinzinger also have said Newsom's decision to talk to Bannon is, quote, unforgivable, and insane.
And I don't want to put words in their mouth, but perhaps its a feeling of normalizing something that shouldn't be normalized because of many of the other points of view and things that they support. Is that criticism warranted?
KHANNA: I have no problem with Governor Newsom having dialogue with people on the other side. I think the parts that people had a problem with was when he asked Charlie Kirk for advice. I mean, he's the governor of the fifth biggest economy in the world, and I don't think we need to have Charlie Kirk giving us political advice for an agenda.
But in terms of dialogue with people on the other side, that -- that -- that makes sense. But go with it with our values and challenge people on views instead of acquiescing to them.
BURNETT: All right. Well, I appreciate your time, Congressman. Thank you.
KHANNA: Thank you, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. And next, breaking news, an explosive town hall just happening tonight. A Republican lawmaker -- well, you'll just see what happened here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Scale --
CONSTITUENT: Why is an unelected person running our government?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: It was pretty stunning. You'll see more.
Plus, former first lady Michelle Obama and her brother speaking out publicly, acknowledging that they are going through some tough times.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:44:04]
BURNETT: New tonight, former First Lady Michelle Obama making a rare public appearance and refusing to talk politics, calling it a rough year, speaking at the South by Southwest festival in Texas, along with her brother Craig. The two recording a live taping of their new podcast, the line to see her stretched out the door. So it was obviously a huge crowd.
The former first lady, as I said, talking about it being a tough time but doing anything possible to avoid saying Trump's name.
Her quote was, we know people are going through some tough times, and I don't think Craig and I are feeling any different than anyone out there. This is according to a reporter in the room.
Arlette Saenz has been following all of this for us, and she is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER FIRST LADY: Being expert --
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): After months out of the political spotlight, Michelle Obama is back.
OBAMA: What we do have are a lot of opinions.
SAENZ: From leaving jobs in corporate world --
OBAMA: It was interesting how both of us entered those careers were successful, but something was missing.
[19:45:02]
SAENZ: To navigating adult friendships.
OBAMA: That's my friendship language. I value people's honest, emotional vulnerability.
SAENZ: It's part of a new venture into podcasting with her brother, Craig Robinson, with the backing of the Obamas media company.
OBAMA: I'm really enjoying the payback of Craig Robinson now being Michelle Obama's brother.
SAENZ: The podcast from one of the most prominent Democrats in the country, focuses on doling out advice and, for the most part, tries to steer clear of politics.
OBAMA: People, you know, they want to hear some honest kind of conversation about how people are working it through.
SAENZ: The siblings even taking their show on the road to South by Southwest. According to the "Austin American-Statesman", Obama told the crowd the truth is the small power that each of us has to do something is right in front of us. If we're all doing that, it outweighs anything that some big leader somewhere can do.
In the Trump era, Obama has carefully chosen when and what to speak out about.
OBAMA: So, consider this to be your official ask. Michelle Obama is asking, you know, I'm telling y'all to do something.
SAENZ: Over the years, she's made no secret of her distaste for the current president, Donald Trump.
OBAMA: Who's going to tell him that the job he's currently seeking might just be one of those black jobs?
SAENZ: But since Trump's reelection, Mrs. Obama has kept a lower political profile. She skipped his second inauguration, sending a blunt message without any words.
Obama has candidly said politics was not in her initial life plans.
OBAMA: I was definitely like, nope, no way. This is crazy.
SAENZ: In her new podcast, she shared, it was her brother who got her on board with her husband's 2008 campaign.
CRAIG ROBINSON, MICHELLE OBAMA'S BROTHER: The thing that that pushed it over the top was, I convinced you to not penalize him for being really good at what he does. Both of you sat there reasonably mad and said I was right.
SAENZ: And she thanked her brother for helping in the journey, including when his kids subbed in for her daughters who had tired of their father's turkey pardoning routine.
OBAMA: I'm standing with my father telling these stupid jokes. You know, next to a turkey. So by the time we got to the last year, the last turkey pardoning they were done, they were just like, I'm out.
They were like, call me up. I'm in, coach. I'm ready. I'm ready to stand next to Uncle Barack.
And they loved his stupid jokes. They loved the jokes. You know, he felt like a new man.
(END VIDOTAPE)
SAENZ: Now, Michelle Obama's foray into podcasting comes as more high profile Democrats are starting to turn to the medium as a way to attract newer voters. For instance, California Governor Gavin Newsom launched his own podcast trying to invite on conservative guests. You have governors who are going on sports podcasts. Of course, for a lot of those Democrats, they have their eyes on presidential ambitions in 2028.
But for Michelle Obama, things are quite a bit different, as she has long ruled out seeking political office herself.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Arlette.
And now we have some breaking news out of North Carolina. A town hall chaos erupting. A Republican congressman named Chuck Edwards was just -- just now wrapping up what was a very packed town hall, a town hall that actually saw long lines hours before doors open.
I mean, just think about it. These are congressional town halls. People go home and do their hours-long lines to get into those. That is not usually a thing, but it is now because of what's going on in Washington. Some of those waiting were in protest. They had signs like the one there that reads "Chuck's a puppet".
One man identified himself as a veteran, was kicked out within minutes for this particular exchange with Edwards.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CONSTITUENT: You're lying. I'm a veteran. You don't give me a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) about me.
REP. CHUCK EDWARDS (R-NC): To be clear --
CONSTITUENT: Shut the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up. You want to take away my rights.
You don't get to take away our rights -- get off me. You don't get to do this to us.
(EXPLETIVE DELETED) you, (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you.
(CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Isabel Rosales is OUTFRONT at that town hall.
I mean, Isabel, just even watching that. It is incredible. What happened?
ISABEL ROSALES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Erin, I'm doing my best golf whisper right now because the congressman is taking questions from reporters right now, right behind me.
But people are angry. I mean, lets walk right here. Sorry to interrupt you, but do you see that?
[19:50:01]
Do your job. That's what they're chanting.
Hundreds of people who were not able to get into this auditorium. Auditorium of 300 max capacity. They've essentially made a protest out here. I mean, they were out there for -- for hours in lines, hoping to come in here and ask the congressman some questions.
And now this is essentially a protest. They've been pounding on the windows here as a congressman is taking questions.
Resist fascism. You see all these sorts of signs and demands for the congressman to do better.
But there were also constituents that were highly appreciative that he was even up here doing this in the first place, doing an in-person town hall where we've seen GOP leadership telling people, telling Republicans to switch over to virtual town halls.
Now, I got to tell you, these heated exchanges, this airing of grievances, it was -- it was clear that the firing of federal workers in particular, really struck a nerve. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CONSTITUENT: Why are you doing nothing while Trump destroys the U.S. Constitution?
EDWARDS: I happen to believe very much that President Trump supports our Constitution.
(BOOS)
EDWARDS: And I -- and -- and I sleep good at night knowing that every vote that I cast is in support of our Constitution and your freedoms.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROSALES: Yeah. And, Erin, one of the moments that produced a standing ovation, laughter from the audience is one of the audience members had a question, a constituent asking, tell us five things you've done this week. Obviously, a play on Musk's email to federal workers, Erin.
BURNETT: It's really an incredible moment, where you're standing is about right. You've got the reporters on one side and people pounding on the door. It's just -- it's truly amazing.
All right, Isabel, thank you very much at that town hall.
And next, we're going to take you to a community that overwhelmingly supported Trump during the campaign. They are turning now for a very specific reason.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:56:24]
BURNETT: Tonight, President Trump expected to invoke a sweeping wartime authority to speed up mass deportations as soon as tomorrow. This as Venezuelans in Florida, many of whom voted for Trump because of his tough stance on immigration, are now having second thoughts. Priscilla Alvarez has this story you'll see first here, OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For Carol Duran Perez, the routines of daily life have been thrown into chaos. She's a Venezuelan immigrant now terrified of being deported.
Are you afraid of your son walking to school?
CAROL DURAN PEREZ, VENEZUELAN IMMIGRANT AND TPS HOLDER (through translator): Yes. Truly. Yes.
ALVAREZ: What are you afraid of?
PEREZ: That they'll pick him up and he won't have time to call me. Also, that it might happen when I'm not with him or he's not with me. That is the worst fear I have.
ALVAREZ: Like so many other Venezuelans, she cheered when Donald Trump was elected because of his tough approach to policies, such as his promise to crack down on a violent Venezuelan criminal organization.
TRUMP: We will expel every single illegal alien, gang member and migrant criminal operating on American soil and remove the savage gang, Tren De Aragua, from the United States.
ALVAREZ: You supported Donald Trump even though you couldn't vote for him.
PEREZ: Yes, yes. I believe there is a large community of Venezuelans who did.
ALVAREZ: What she didn't expect is for those policies to throw her life in limbo and stoke fear in her community.
Carol is one of hundreds of thousands of Venezuelan immigrants who were granted temporary protected status, or TPS, under the Biden administration.
President Trump wiped that away for all Venezuelans.
When they said the TPS is going to be revoked. Were you surprised to see?
PEREZ: Yes, totally. And this was a hard blow because practically, the same day he took office, he went against Venezuelans. It seemed personal.
ALVAREZ: Carol is not alone.
This slice of Florida is affectionately called Doralzuela. Doral, a Miami suburb best known for its Trump golf resort, is home to 27,000 Venezuelan immigrants, more than any other city in the U.S.
President Donald Trump handily won Doral in 2024, a place where 40 percent of its population has Venezuelan roots, and it's restaurants like these that have become staples of the community. Also, where they've protested his actions to revoke TPS.
In El Arepazo is a gathering place for Venezuelans. The restaurant is losing business. People are afraid to leave their homes.
Immigration attorney Ros-Ana Guillen says her phone hasn't stopped ringing since the decision to revoke deportation protections.
ROS-ANA GUILLEN, IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY: And there's actually people sobbing on the other line, crying and scared for their family members.
ALVAREZ: She says it's a mistake for the Trump administration to group all Venezuelans together with the criminal gangs.
GUILLEN: We have doctors, engineers, baseball players, musicians. We have a beautiful community. They came here legally. They pay taxes. They contribute to our economy.
ALVAREZ: Local officials have warned that the Doral economy could grind to a halt if Venezuelans lose their ability to work legally.
MAUREEN PORRAS, VICE MAYOR OF DORAL, FLORIDA: Without that community, I think Doral will cease to be what it is. We're going to turn into a city that is going to lose a lot of its residents.
ALVAREZ: A group of Venezuelans is suing the Trump administration for revoking TPS, arguing the decision was, quote, illegal for multiple reasons.
For Carol, time is running out.
What are you most afraid of for you and your son?
PEREZ: Of being deported, that they separate me from my son.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ALVAREZ (on camera): We also spoke to Venezuelan Americans who voted for President Donald Trump, who say that they're holding out hope for this ongoing litigation, hoping that that is what blocks the revoking of these deportation protections.
And if not that, then some other solution. But what was clear from every conversation we had is that many Venezuelans say they can't return to Venezuela because they are fleeing political persecution, with one person telling us bluntly, quote, we don't have a place to go back to -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Priscilla, thank you very much. Yet another incredible report from Priscilla.
And thanks so much to all of you for being with us.
"AC360" starts now.
