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Erin Burnett Outfront

Trump's DOJ Stonewalls Judge Over Whether It Violated Court Order; Project 2025 Chief: Trump Lining Up Beyond "Wildest Dreams"; NY Times Columnist Fact Checks Elon Musk; Hours Away: Astronauts "Stranded" For Months Return To Earth. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired March 17, 2025 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:32]

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:

Breaking news tonight, an explosive hearing in federal court. A judge demanding to know if Trump defied his court order flying migrants out of the U.S., even as he was ordered not to. Is this just the beginning?

Plus, the former director of Project 2025 tonight says Trump's second term is lining up with the controversial blueprint that he put out there, quote, beyond his wildest dreams.

And taking on Musk. The world's richest man claiming no one has died from his cuts to federal spending. So "New York Times" columnist Nick Kristof got on a plane and he went and he got the facts and calls him out tonight, traveling around the world.

Let's go OUTFRONT.

And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.

OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news, an explosive scene in a federal courtroom just moments ago. So a federal judge flat out asked Trump's lawyer, did the president defy a court order when the Trump administration deported more than 200 migrants to El Salvador? And Trump's lawyer would not answer that question, would not answer the question, as we are at this very moment, awaiting a decision from that judge on whether he will move to hold the Trump administration in contempt of court.

Now, at the heart of the dispute, three flights that took off from American soil and landed in Central America this weekend. And the timeline on these is crucial. I think it sort of boils down to this. It started Saturday morning. Trump just woke up and invoked the Alien Enemies Act of 1798. He did that to rapidly deport suspected Venezuelan gang members and perhaps others. But that's who was involved this weekend.

It is a law that is only three times before been used in U.S. history, all of them during war. Now here's how it goes down from there: 5:26 p.m. on Saturday night, Eastern Time, the first flight carrying a number of migrants to parts from Texas. 19 minutes later, a second flight departs. Now, roughly an hour later, Judge Boasberg, 6:45 p.m. Eastern, verbally tells the Trump administration they must turn around any planes carrying migrants deported under the Alien Enemies Act. Nothing happens. No planes turn around.

At 7:26 p.m., a written order to the same effect is posted now, a written order, and it is even after that written order at 7:37 p.m. that yet another flight takes off, departing from southern Texas for Central America. Now, that would appear to be a clear violation of the judge's order.

But tonight, the Trump administration is arguing that that third flight didn't include people being deported under the Alien Enemies Act. The judge asked for proof. Prove that to me. They have not provided that proof.

Meantime, the president of El Salvador, where these flights ended, tweeted on Sunday morning, oopsie, too late, with a crying emoji. A post that the secretary of state of the United States of America, Marco Rubio, took the time to like.

The president of El Salvador, even had camera crews waiting for that made for video moment when those planes landed fully prepared for this was a marketing moment, and the administration, it is very important to note here, has offered up several conflicting reasons as to why they did not comply with the judge's order. At one point they said, well, the planes were already in international waters. So sure, we knew about the order, but they were already in international water.

Well, of course, one of them didn't even take off from American soil until after the written order from the judge was posted.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM HOMAN, BORDER CZAR: We're already in international waters. We're outside the borders of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Okay, again, that third one, that that's not the case for. So that caused a little bit of a problem, right?

So then at another point today, they had a different argument than the international waters. This time they said it wasn't about where the planes were. It was about the administration's view that an oral order from the judge is not enforceable. And obviously, that order was posted well before the written order.

It all sounds like looking for excuses, maybe? Maybe that's because it is. Because finally, Trump's border czar actually said this out loud.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOMAN: We're not stopping. I don't care what the judges think.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BURNETT: Okay, well, that is loud and clear. That's not international water. And when things were put, that's just like, we're going to do what we want to do, and we don't care what judges say. They intend to defy the courts if they don't rule, as the Trump administration sees fit.

Now, look, if were all honest with ourselves, America's judicial system is not perfect. Far from it. But it is what makes America the envy of the world. Respect for a co-equal branch of government is the bedrock of America's democracy. And maybe that is why, when pressed about the border czar, Homan's comments, this is what the White House had to say.

[19:05:01]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I can assure you that the administration is complying with the court order.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Continually saying that they are complying with the court order.

Which brings us back to tonight's explosive courtroom hearing, where the federal judge asked Trump's lawyer, did the president defy a court order when it deported migrants this weekend? Since the timeline seems to show that they did.

Trump's lawyer, as of now, again has not answered that question, even as Trump's top immigration adviser, Stephen Miller, just came on CNN, just like border czar Homan did, and made it clear that abiding by the court is not what the administration cares about.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN MILLER, TRUMP'S TOP IMMIGRATION ADVISER: The district court has no ability to in any way restrain the president's authorities under the Alien Enemies Act, or his ability to conduct the foreign affairs of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Jeff Zeleny is OUTFRONT, live outside the White House to begin our coverage tonight.

And, Jeff, you know, we heard that -- well, maybe it was international water. No, it was about when the orders were posted. And then finally, we're going to do what we want to do, whatever the court says. So you've heard the whole range of reasons and excuses today.

At this moment, as we're awaiting this order from the judge, is the White House at all concerned about defying a court ruling?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, look, they argue that they are not defying the ruling. But as you said, all of those explanations, all of the -- you know, really reasons over the last 24 to 36 hours point to the fact that they believe that they are in the right to do this. They believe that the president has the broad authority on national security matters and matters of foreign affairs. So this clearly is setting up for a legal fight. That's what this is all about.

Is this going to be the big one? Is this going to be the one that goes to the Supreme Court? Perhaps we shall see.

But when you sort of step back, this is something that the president has talked about on the campaign trail over and over, the Alien Enemies Act of 1798, I recall him saying it many, many, many times when he was running for president, and now it is taking effect. What that, of course, is it has been since the Second World War, since that has been imposed. But the president says this is a time of war. So that also will be litigated.

So the bottom line here is the written order versus the oral order. The judge said that was a heck of a stretch. That was his words to sort of respond back to the -- the White House.

But the Department of Justice tried to get this hearing canceled. They tried to get the judge removed. That didn't happen.

So the bottom line here is the White House. I'm not sure if they are worried about defying the court order, but they are going right through and keeping with their immigration plan. So this is what the administration is going to use as their broad test of the executive authority and the branches of government, Erin.

BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Jeff Zeleny.

All right. Everyone here with me. We've got new reporting from Marc Caputo, Lulu Garcia-Navarro from "The New York Times". And Ryan Goodman is here.

So, Ryan, you've been following that explosive hearing from -- you know, obviously, we were hearing some of this fire going back and forth, I guess from the way you see it right now from the facts that we have. Did the Trump administration defy the court order or not?

RYAN GOODMAN, FORMER SPECIAL COUNSEL AT DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE: It's very likely that they did. And the court order was a verbal statement by the judge on Saturday night in which he said, turn back the planes immediately. And if they hit the tarmac, then turn them around. So not just in midair, but even if they land, then turn them around.

And the big question is, even whatever happens with a written order later, there's an hour that passes by at least, and then planes start landing in El Salvador and Honduras. Why? What's the explanation?

So the judge -- the court, the Justice Department is trying to say that they complied. Their argument is convoluted, but it is. When you issued that order, you said we could still take people out if there was a separate authority to do so. Once the planes are in international airspace, there's a separate authority. It's the presidents Article Two powers acting abroad. And that's how we continued on with the flights.

BURNETT: Right. And of course, the third flight hadn't taken off yet. And somehow they're saying that that -- that flight hadn't even left America until the written order was posted it.

GOODMAN: That's right. And they refused to give the judge an explanation as to what was the legal authority for the third flight. There is a innocent explanation, and there's a very nefarious one.

The innocent explanation is back in the Saturday hearing. They did say to the judge, well, just so we get this straight, if we have alternative authorities to remove somebody out of the country like they are facing a final order of removal, they've exhausted all of their court proceedings and they can now be removed.

Can we still remove them? And he said, yes, of course. All I'm saying is you can't remove them under the Alien Enemies Act. So -- so the question is who was on that flight?

(CROSSTALK)

BURNETT: -- every single person on that flight who fit that category, thus foreseeing that that issue would have happened prior to the third. That's a lot to say.

GOODMAN: And if that's the explanation, then say it. That would -- that would excuse it. Why didn't they say it?

BURNETT: So, Marc Caputo, you know, to this, you know, I want to obviously you've got a lot of reporting here. But on that list is your reporting that team Trump is very confident that they're going to win this legally. Why?

[19:10:01]

MARC CAPUTO, SENIOR POLITICS REPORTER, AXIOS: Well, they think the law is on their side, not only the letter of the law but also the composition, ultimately, the Supreme Court. And in addition to the law being on their side and understand this, with the Trump White House, the Trump campaign, the Trump operation, they always communicate 110 percent positivity, so to speak.

But they also have, in their view, public opinion on their side. In the end, according to them now, we haven't been able to independently verify this. These are some of the worst of the worst people, gangbangers, murderers, rapists and other nefarious people who are on these planes.

And so they're giving a sort of a very retro argument, if you remember, from 2002 when the Bush White House said, you're either with us or you're with the terrorists, the Trump White House is sort of posing that same question. You're either with us or you're with these terrible people. In addition to that, the overall sense in the White House is that

there hasn't been enough scrutiny on the judge. The judge was appointed by President Obama or former President Obama, and they think that also deserves a bit more scrutiny in the media as well.

BURNETT: Okay. Yeah. I mean, you know, as I say, it's a -- it's a dark world. And we have to talk about who appointed every judge and act as if they're political.

But, Lulu, to the point that Mark was just making, that the Trump administration thinks public opinion is on their side. It's very clear they think that here's what Trump said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These were bad people. That was a bad group of, as I say, hombres is a bad group. When you look at them and you look at the crimes that they've committed, you take a look. You don't get any tougher. You don't get worse than that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: So, Lulu, if Americans have to weigh Trump getting if this is the case with all of them, these guys out of the country against following a judge orders that lets these guys stay in the country, is it too big of a jump to think that most Americans will back Trump?

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: No. I think most Americans, if you put it in a binary like that, they'd say, of course, we don't want these bad people in the country. The problem happens, of course, is, first of all, we don't know who these people were. We've already seen people be deported that were not supposed to be deported. They weren't who they said they were.

We've already seen this administration try this with Guantanamo and these bad people were going to be sent there. And it turned out that those people weren't who they said they were. I mean, obviously, there are bad people in this country that should be deported. No one is questioning that. But this is supposed to be a country of laws, and it is supposed to be and is supposed to have due process. We're supposed to be able to understand what they've done, and people are supposed to be able to answer for that.

I mean, I come from a family in Latin America. You know, I am an of an immigrant family. And this reminds me of what used to happen back in the days of Brazil and Argentina, which were run by sort of dictatorships where people were sort of hustled onto planes and put in prisons and disappeared.

El Salvador, at this particular moment in time is -- is, you know, is a bit of a black hole. What happens to those people when they get there? They're not going to get due process there either. So, you know, there's a lot of questions there about how this has been handled and what it means more broadly.

BURNETT: Yeah. And you know what I want everyone to know. We do have a special report exclusively inside that prison where they were apparently some of these migrants are going in El Salvador. Incredible reporting from our David Culver in an area that is just such a black hole as Lulu, says, Ryan.

Multiple times, though, we hear from the White House press secretary today, and not only did she say that they would comply with the court order, I mean, she was she was the only one out there trying to sound that tone that conflicted with home and conflicted with Stephen Miller. But did she give the specific issue a reason for why the planes did not return once the order was issued? Here's what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEAVITT: All of the planes that were subject to the written order, the judge's written order, took off before the order was entered in the courtroom on Saturday. All of the planes, subject to the written order of this judge, departed U.S. soil, U.S. territory before the judge's written order.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Now, Ryan, obviously they wouldn't have necessarily known at what point a judge would have issued a verbal versus a written, if there ever would have been a verbal instead of a written, all that would have been unknown when you decided who was going on what flight. If you even put extensive time into that. Okay? So that context is important because the written ruling was posted at 7:26 p.m. and flight three did not take off until 737, 11 minutes afterwards.

They knew about the written order for sure. Forget all this turnaround in midair stuff. They knew about the written order, which they are acknowledging is the real deal, before a flight took off.

GOODMAN: That's right. And the judge, in fact, tonight, just in the last half hour, has basically put in writing this time because he said, I'm going to put it in writing, just in case you really think my verbal orders don't count.

And he said, I need to know who's on the flight. I have to know who's on that flight. Because if its people who are subject to the proclamation that the Alien Enemies Act applies, my order said they cannot be removed from the country. So that's the big question. And the answer to that question will kind of determine another way in which there may have been just absolute contempt of court.

[19:15:06]

And that's what he said. He said he's looking into contempt.

BURNETT: Right, and as Lulu said right now, a total black hole. As to the names of any of these individuals on these planes, what and what they did and what they were subjected. We know absolutely nothing. We know zero about any of them.

Marc, you do have new reporting tonight, though, in terms of the -- the judge's order that the Trump administration did discuss turning the flights around. So the judge's order came out and that they did actually talk about it. They were aware of it, whether the verbal or written one. They talked about turning the planes around that were already in the air.

Obviously, they didn't do so. What have you learned about those conversations?

CAPUTO: Well, there were conversations in the White House. Stephen Miller, the deputy chief of staff and sort of the orchestra of this play or symphony, if you will, by the White House and the Homeland Security administrator or secretary, Kristi Noem, were the leaders here. The word came into the White House that, hey, this order is out. What do we do? Lawyers were consulted and I was told they decided at the time that these are over international waters. The judges orders do not therefore apply to them and that they should continue on.

Now, this whole plan -- you had said earlier that Trump woke up on Saturday morning and signed the executive order. It was a little more secret than that. He signed this executive order on Friday. They kept it quiet and they were planning to keep it quiet on Saturday.

But word of it started to leak. And then as it leaked, they then published the order and then started to hasten these plans for deportations. The original plan in the White House that was excogitated was to have everyone deported from the United States to El Salvador before the case could even get before a judge, and certainly before a ruling came.

In this case, it was sort of off-sides or whatever the right word is or phrase is. The order came when they were in the plane and that was the timing they didn't expect.

BURNETT: I mean, you know, Lulu, obviously, you can't. You can only look at what appears to be intent as the way Marc lays it out. But that would imply that you didn't want the court ruling until you were done what you were already doing because you thought you would be called out for doing it.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: That's what it appears. There's a lot of reporting that ICE, you know, that needs to be done. But I think the overall tactic here is that they want this to end up in the Supreme Court. They've been pushing on all sorts of different fronts to do with immigration in many different ways. And they want this to end up at the Supreme Court, and they want this issue to be resolved so that basically, Donald Trump has unilateral decisions to decide who remains in this country and who does not, regardless of their status, regardless of who they are, regardless of their -- of what papers they have.

BURNETT: All right. Thank you all very much. We'll await that judges ruling obviously could come here at any time. Thank you.

And next, Trump's revenge declaring Biden's pardons are null and void. What is the White House saying tonight, though, about Trump's self- declared authority? And what about his pardons? Plus, the two American astronauts trapped in space for 285 days are

now about to board that spacecraft and come home. I'm going to speak to one woman who has been talking to one of the astronauts, Suni Williams.

And as I mentioned, the OUTFRONT exclusive tonight. We're going to take you inside one of the worlds most notorious prisons. It is the one those migrants went to now home to those alleged gang members that Trump deported over the weekend. They're there in El Salvador. You'll see the controversial tactics that El Salvador's president is using.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:22:56]

BURNETT: New tonight, void. The White House tonight on the defense after Trump declared Biden's pardons of the January 6th Committee members were, quote, void and vacant. Those are his words.

The White House tonight refusing to say whether President Trump was told he had the legal authority to undo the pardons. Talk about a whole new level of instability that, you know, someone pardoned someone else just undoes it.

Trump's argument is that the pardons do not count because Biden signed them by autopen, insinuating that Biden did not know what he was doing at the time.

Now, the facts are its unclear if Biden even used an autopen to sign the pardon documents, and even if he did, it is not clear the pardons would be could be rescinded for any reason. Autopen is not something that is new to Biden, even if it was used.

OUTFRONT now, former Democratic mayor of New York City, Bill de Blasio, along with David Urban.

So, David, you know, with all of all this other business going on, you know, like we were just talking about maybe challenging the -- the going to the Supreme Court, the constitutional challenge here. Why pick this fight on pardons, especially when it's not even -- I mean, what authority would you have to undo the pardons of a prior president?

DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah. So, Erin, I'm not quite sure he's looking to pick a fight in undoing the pardons. I think its the broader question here is, is whether Joe Biden and I think what the president is trying to drill down on is how much was Joe Biden present for mentally during his tenure as president, especially in the -- in the ending months?

You know, we all sat and watched the debate, and I think everybody felt very badly for Joe Biden in that instance, because it was clear that at least on that instance, on that night at that debate, he was, you know, almost non compos mentis.

And so I think what Trump is saying is, look, was he was he all there? Was he -- would he have all his faculties at the time that he was doing this? And I think that he was questioning that and, and putting that out for debate. And I think it is it is worthy for debate on how much, you know, the -- the former president was engaged. And I think its something that the history books will -- will look into a great deal.

BURNETT: Perhaps they will. I don't know, though, in the lens of pardons -- I mean, I guess we could look back and see who Reagan pardoned in his final days. I don't know, I mean, I'm just saying if were going to go back to presidents where we knew there were issues at the end, and I'm not saying we do for Biden. I'm just saying with that argument, I would -- I would go back to Reagan.

URBAN: Oh, sure, Erin, everybody saw it for Biden. We all saw it for Biden.

BURNETT: I'm saying I don't know medically anything is all I'm saying, David, I understand what we saw at the debate.

URBAN: OK.

BURNETT: But, Mayor de Blasio, I mean, what's a precedent set by just saying even a pardon is something that -- and by the way, I think all the pardons are kind of gross no matter who's doing them. But they exist. They're the rule. They're the law.

And if all of a sudden, I could pardon you and the next person could come in and take that away, that's more instability.

BILL DE BLASIO (D), FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: That's what we call chaos. There's no verb for unpardoned. We don't have any.

BURNETT: Yeah, I was looking for the word.

DE BLASIO: Yeah, we just don't have that. And it never has been in our history.

What's worse to me is not just saying, oh, we want to undo it because we want to undo it, but it's about January 6th. Now, I remind you, the vast majority of Americans think something really bad happened on January 6th. They saw it with their own eyes. They saw our capital attacked and desecrated.

So when you think about it, this is really extreme to say, let me go after the committee that was looking into that duly constituted committee, bipartisan committee that was looking into that situation. We're going to go after them. And in fact, we're going to take away their pardons.

That's extremism. That's something I don't think the American public could ever buy into on the autopen. Like, when did the autopen become an issue in our society? Like, that's -- that's ridiculous.

And with all due respect to David, who's a very smart guy, we saw Joe Biden in the final days of his presidency. He was making tons of decisions. He was obviously in charge. His staff was in charge, his counsel was there. These were official pardons. There's no two ways about it.

BURNETT: I mean, certainly, David, you're not going to argue with the Hunter Biden pardon wasn't done with full knowledge of the president.

URBAN: Listen, I'm hopeful the president would -- I argued on this network that President Trump should a president -- should have should have pardoned Hunter Biden. Right?

BURNETT: Yeah.

URBAN: So, surely, Joe Biden should have pardoned him. But yeah, Erin, look, I think the bigger -- the bigger point that President Trump was trying to make was simply that that you know, that that Joe Biden may not have been cognizant for lots that was going on during his presidency trolling, trolling a bit.

BURNETT: All right. Right. And maybe to try to distract from some of the other issues out there right now.

Mayor, I want to have you each a chance to respond to this. The former director of Project 2025, right, which had gotten so much publicity during the campaign, tells "Politico" that Trump's second term is aligning with his vision for Project 2025 so well that it is, quote, beyond my wildest dreams, beyond my wildest dreams.

Even though this is what Trump said during the campaign, I'm just giving a few examples here. There are many more where these came from.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have no idea what Project 2025 is.

I have nothing to do with Project 2025.

We have nothing to do with Project 25.

I don't know what the hell it is. It's Project 25.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DE BLASIO: That's -- that's -- that's like I did not have sex with that woman, miss Lewinsky. I mean, come on. Yeah, obviously, Project 2025 was authored by his own former team, and now he's not just implementing it, he's implementing it with incredible energy and focus and extremism.

I think this is going to be the story of the beginning of the Trump administration, that everything was as extreme as it possibly could be, and the American people are not into extremism. But on top of that, he lied about knowing about it, and that's going to catch up with him soon.

BURNETT: Do you think it ever will, David? I mean, by the way, it is something to contrast those statements with. It's happening beyond my wildest dreams by the guy who wrote the thing. URBAN: Yeah. So, Erin, look, we've talked about this ad nauseam,

right? Project 2025 is an amalgamation of lots of things the Republican Party believes in, right? Smaller government, getting rid of some of these things. And here -- I'll just -- I'll just put a pin in it.

Right now, there was a poll out yesterday. I think it was released by NBC, right track, wrong track. Forty -- I believe 44 percent of Americans feel the country is headed in the right track, right?

BURNETT: Forty-four, yeah.

URBAN: Erin, that is the highest number -- I'm sorry, 44 percent, right? That's the highest number since 2004.

So if Donald Trump, if the American people don't like Project 2025, by the way, in November of 20 -- in November, it was 29 percent. And the Biden administration, it was terrible. So Donald Trump gets elected. The Americans believe the country is headed in the right track, highest number in 21 years. So I'm not sure that that matters what Project 25 says or doesn't say. I think it matters what this administration is doing.

BURNETT: I'll give you the final words and save it at the first. But he has a point. I mean, the right track, wrong track is a pretty powerful number.

DE BLASIO: And look at the numbers on the economy and look what people are saying now about Donald Trump, who they used to believe in on the economy. They are losing faith by the day because they see these tariffs out of control. They see tax cuts coming for billionaires.

This -- this whole thing is starting to crumble. And I think it's really important to recognize Donald Trump has chosen an extreme path. And people are starting to respond and they're saying, wait a minute, this is going to hurt me.

[19:30:01]

BURNETT: And we'll see what happens.

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: The only thing, Mr. Mayor, I was going to say, Erin, the only thing that's crumbling is the Democratic Party, 29 percent. Mr. Mayor, come on, give us our due, 44 percent, right track.

DE BLASIO: Just watch, brother. Just watch.

URBAN: Democratic Party, 29 percent. Come on.

DE BLASIO: Just watch.

BURNETT: All right.

URBAN: We're winning. BURNETT: A conversation, a conversation to be continued. As you said,

David. I'll put a pin in it for now. Thanks to both.

And next, "The New York Time" reporter Nicholas Kristof tonight taking on Elon Musk, who claimed that no one has died because of Trump's cuts. So Kristof got on a plane and traveled halfway around the world to see if it's true and it's not true. You'll hear what he saw.

Plus, an OUTFRONT exclusive. We're going to take you inside that prison that Trump is deporting people to from the United States, a mega prison known for harsh conditions, proudly so known for housing the worst of the worst.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There's no mattresses. There's no sheets. You've got a toilet over here for them to go to the bathroom.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:35:34]

BURNETT: Tonight, "The New York Times'" Nicholas Kristof takes on Elon Musk with facts. The world's richest man said, and I quote him, no one has died, end quote, due to his and President Trump's slashing of foreign aid. He's been definitive about that. No one has died.

But Kristof, who is, of course, reported extensively all over the world, didn't buy it. But he wanted to get the facts. So he got on a plane and he went to see for himself.

And he's now OUTFRONT to tell us what he saw.

So, Nicholas, you have just returned from two places that have been war torn with incredible suffering, that have received those funds from the United States, South Sudan and Nairobi, Kenya. What did you see?

NICHOLAS KRISTOF, OPINION COLUMNIST, THE NEW YORK TIMES: So in Kenya, in particular, you know, I had been reporting, actually in South Sudan for about two hours before I had the names of two children who had died because of the USAID shutdown overseen by Elon Musk.

You know, one was an orphan, Peter Dundee (ph), a ten year old boy who was getting his AIDS medication from the U.S. this is costing U.S. taxpayers 12 cents a day. But that program was shut down. And, you know, this is theoretically a 90-day pause. But for a kid, an orphan who has no way to navigate the system, how is he supposed to get that medication?

And then without that medication, his viral load rises, his immunity diminishes, and he got an opportunistic infection of pneumonia and died. And he's gone. And, you know, an eight year old girl, (INAUDIBLE), kind of the same

pattern. She couldn't get her medication. She lost her ID card. The system no longer could accommodate her. And she died.

A boy, a five year old boy named Evan.

BURNETT: We have a picture of -- we have a picture of him that you shared with us, while you're talking about him. Well put it up.

KRISTOF: Great. Yeah. I mean, first, Evan's mother died. She was also HIV positive, and they couldn't get their medications. When the U.S. shut down this program and she died. And then, you know, Evan is a five year old. He's all alone. And then he dies.

And, you know, I'm sure there are plenty of programs that American taxpayers would rightly want reviewed and, and thought about. And, but a program that costs 12 cents per child per day, that is saving lives it -- I think, you know, I think taxpayers are getting their moneys worth with this. And this isn't a review of aid. It's a demolition. It's vandalism of not policy formation.

BURNETT: So, Nicholas, you know, when Elon Musk said no one has died, you know, who knows why he said that? I'm just to assume that he didn't just come out and knowingly lie, right? But it was the assumption that this aid just didn't matter, that it couldn't have that sort of an impact.

And certainly even if it did, I think there are many who are watching who would share your view, your sensitivity and your empathy, also your willingness to review parts of it and -- and would have thought it wouldn't have happened this fast, right? They would have thought that this would have taken a long time, and it would have been amorphous, and it would have been hard to define cause and effect for death.

But what you just described in those cases is not amorphous. It is not unspecific. There's no question of cause and effect. It is pretty stunning to think about how fast it happened.

KRISTOF: And it's not just those kids in that AIDS program. You know, I went to an area where there are a lot of severely malnourished children, and it used to be that there was an aid vehicle paid for by USAID that would take the RUTF, which is a nutrition substance to keep these kids alive, to save their lives. And it stopped. And almost immediately, you had these severely, acutely malnourished children fighting for their lives.

I saw this, you know, this two year old girl who when she cries, her hunger, then the family gives her water because there is nothing else. And, you know, a child who is severely malnourished is going to die pretty quickly.

There are you -- the U.S. provides chemicals to treat water in some refugee camps. When those chemicals run out, then the water is no longer going to be pure and kids in particular are going to die of cholera and other ailments. So, yeah, it can go pretty fast. And we're now at a point where the

momentum is going to increase. And I think the toll is going to increase really quickly, Erin.

BURNETT: It's just incredible, incredible tragedy from -- from the youngest.

[19:40:01]

And I'm sure, obviously, there will be so many others. But some of those young children to imagine that complete loss of everything is hard to think about.

Nicholas, thank you.

KRISTOF: Thank you, Erin.

BURNETT: And next, we have that exclusive inside that notorious prison in El Salvador. That is the one now housing those migrants from America Trump deported and sent there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CULVER: Roughly 80 inmates per cell. But it can fluctuate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: And tonight, final preparations are underway for those two American astronauts that have been trapped in space returning home. So what are their thoughts as they are finally at such long last, about to board a spacecraft home?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: Tonight an OUTFRONT exclusive inside that prison where Trump has been sending those migrants in El Salvador.

[19:45:02]

The El Salvador president, Nayib Bukele, who has referred to himself as, quote, the world's coolest dictator, owning the word, sharing this dramatic video of their arrival. The prison is where El Salvador keeps what they've called the quote, worst of the worst and Marco Rubio, Matt Gaetz and Erik Prince have all been there and praised the prison and Bukele, paving the way for this moment.

And tonight, we have exclusive access. CNN is the first major news organization to see (VIDEO GAP).

Our David Culver takes you inside in this OUTFRONT exclusive.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CULVER (voice-over): Under a veil of darkness, they arrive, shackled and seemingly shell-shocked, bound for a prison where the past is erased and the future is a door that never opens. More than 250 alleged criminals deported from the U.S., arriving in El

Salvador over the weekend. Most are from Venezuela, accused of belonging to Tren de Aragua, a violent transnational gang.

Their destination, El Salvador's terrorism confinement center, known as CECOT, a supermax prison built by President Nayib Bukele to house his country's most dangerous criminals. One by one, hundreds of guards process these new arrivals, who are stripped of choice, power and identity.

It will cost the U.S. about $6 million to keep them here for at least the first year. These images, released by El Salvador's government and proudly shared online by president Bukele, highlight his controversial yet seemingly effective gang crackdown while also positioning him firmly in President Trump's good graces, helping to fulfill Trump's mass deportation promises.

President Trump thanking Bukele for his understanding of this horrible situation, adding we will not forget.

CECOT was built to contain, to isolate.

All right, we're going to go in here.

And late last year, we stepped inside to see it for ourselves. These men described as the worst of the worst, tattooed with reminders of El Salvador's dark past. It's tense and uncomfortable. But here, officials say comfort isn't meant to exist.

There's no mattresses, there's no sheets. You've got a toilet over here for them to go to the bathroom. You've got this basin here that they use to bathe themselves. And then you can see there there's a barrel of water that they can drink from. And he says, there's always somebody standing here in front of the cells.

And then if you look up, there's another corridor with more security personnel.

Twenty-four-seven light.

The prison sits like an isolated fortress nestled in mountainous terrain about an hour and a half drive from the capital. It's been equated to seven football stadiums. It's almost multiple prisons within the prison. The far end, you have one that's nine meters high of concrete. And then above that three meters of electrified fencing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fifteen thousand volt.

CULVER: Fifteen thousand volts.

More than a thousand security personnel, guards, police and military are stationed on site.

Inmates are assigned to one of eight sectors. Each sector holds more than two dozen large cells.

Roughly 80 inmates per cell. But it can fluctuate.

CULVER: What is it like to live here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's probably not a hotel, five star, but they give you the three times the food. They give you some programs. You go to -- you go to do exercise, some church religion program too.

CULVER: But that's limited to just 30 minutes a day. The other 23.5 hours, they're kept inside and locked up.

For inmates who get violent with other prisoners or guards --

We're going to close the door. I just want to get a sense of -- wow. Solitary confinement awaits.

The only light you get is through this hole, and they can be in here for 15 days, potentially.

All right. I'm ready to get out.

Critics point specifically to the prisons strict control and isolation of inmates, calling it a violation of human rights.

The director brought up that a lot of folks will raise concerns from a human rights perspective, and an abuse of human rights, that he's calm hearing that because he sees it day to day. The process they go through to maintain as he sees it proper punishment.

And now that proper punishment isn't just for alleged Salvadoran criminals, it's also for those the U.S. decides to send away. An outsourcing of confinement into Bukele's prized prison, merciless for those inside, but to many beyond these walls, CECOT stands as a symbol of El Salvador's restored security.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[19:50:06]

CULVER (on camera): And perhaps not all that surprising, but there is a lot of criticism surfacing over these deportations, namely, that the White House hasn't yet told us who these deportees are and what crimes they're alleged to have committed.

Now, Erin, what's interesting is being here in Ecuador. So south or south of El Salvador is were starting to see this idea of harsh criminal punishment, of strongman leadership spreading around Latin America. I mean, Ecuador is a country that last year was the deadliest in Latin America.

And so they're following similar tactics to El Salvador. So much so, Erin, that they've got a prison that's being built here that was also designed by the same team that put together CEO.

BURNETT: It's really incredible to see the contagion.

All right. Thank you very much. Incredible reporting from David Culver.

And next, the two American astronauts trapped in space are just about to board a spacecraft home. I'll talk with one woman who's been talking to one of the astronauts throughout her time in space.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:55:16]

BURNETT: Just hours from now, two NASA astronauts will enter a capsule docked at the International Space Station and return to Earth after their week-long mission turned into what has so far been 285 days in space. One week, almost a year. We are expecting to get our first glimpse of Suni Williams and Butch Wilmore back on earth tomorrow. In this hour, everything goes according to plan.

The astronauts are expected to splash down somewhere off the coast of Florida tomorrow evening, a day ahead of schedule. On Friday, the SpaceX Dragon capsule riding on Falcon 9 rocket was successfully launched from Kennedy Space Center in Florida. The crew on that mission arrived at the ISS just after midnight on Sunday to replace the returning astronauts.

And Angela DiNapoli is OUTFRONT now. She's been corresponding with Suni Williams while she's been on board the space station. She was Sunday school teacher back in middle school.

And, Angela, you know, incredible that you and she have -- have remained in contact. And I know you got two emails from her just today. And what is essentially her final day. And they are anticipated to be landing back here around the same time tomorrow. What were her final thoughts that you can share as she finally is about to begin that journey home?

ANGELA DINAPOLI, ASTRONAUT SUNI WILLIAMS' FORMER TEACHER: Yeah, she -- she mentioned that, you know, its been a mixed bag of emotions for her because she's become friendly with even the new crew that has just been up there for a few days, and it's been quite an experience for her.

But she also said that she's ready to come home. She misses her family and friends and wants to see them, so it's kind of a mixed bag, but it's been quite an adventure for her.

BURNETT: Of course, impossible really, for any of us to truly imagine. You shared a photo that she sent you from space. This was wearing a t- shirt that your son had made for her, and you were actually able to see her during the sojourn to. I mean, you were able to do a video conference, I understand with her from the ISS.

You know, what -- what did she talk about? How did she manage it? I am just so you know, obviously beyond in awe of them physically, but the mental ability to handle that when you expected seven days trapped in such a small space to be able to -- to do this for so long yeah.

DINAPOLI: And she -- well, she's a real trooper. She, you know, they gave her a mission, things for her to do while she was up there. And she every week she sends these, sends these emails with all the activities that she's done during the week and all the things that are going on, including meals that they've had together and things.

So she's been busy. And then, of course, she did the two spacewalks, this time too. So that kept her kept her busy. So she's been busy. She's been part of the -- part of the mission that's up there.

And -- and it's her job as she says, this is her job. It's her profession. And you have to be flexible. You have to take it as it comes. So she's been really a trooper up there.

BURNETT: Well, if anybody if all of us could learn even just one tiny smidgen of that flexibility and purpose, the world would be a better place. Just showing a picture of you and Suni together. When she came to speak with students at your school, how often were you even able to communicate with her during her time in space, Angela?

DINAPOLI: When she was in space for all three missions, she would email every week. And when I was teaching, I'm retired now, but when I was teaching, I would read the emails to the children every Monday and she would even send a geography quiz. She'd take a picture of something from space, and the children would have to try to guess what it was with what she was looking at.

So she kept us very active. If the children had questions, I would send them to her and she would answer them right away. So it's been I mean, that was the 2006 was her first mission. So we've been communicating over all three missions. I actually have a notebook of all my -- my emails from her.

BURNETT: Which is an incredible thing.

As -- as an amazing teacher, an incredible teacher could do, like, like yourself. You were her teacher in sixth grade. And I'm so curious as a parent, I'm sure so many are -- did you -- what did you think of her then?

I mean, obviously, sixth graders are sixth graders. But as you saw what she became, do you look back at her then and say, ahh, I could see this? And did you ever think that she could become something so incredible as an astronaut?

DINAPOLI: Absolutely, absolutely. She would come to school every day with her hair wet because she would get up at 5:00 in the morning to swim. And she was a competitive swimmer. She was actually even the captain of her swim at Annapolis.

So I expected to see her actually at the Olympics. I thought for sure I'd see her as a swimmer there, but I think this is even better, you know?

So I expected great things from her. And she was always the type of student that got along with everybody in the class, everybody. And so I can see her with this kind of a mission where she's dealing with different crew members. She's been through probably -- this is her probably sixth crew -- crew group that she's been with. So she gets along with everybody and everybody gets along with her.

BURNETT: Well, it just truly incredible. And I know we will all be cheering for her. And Butch's safe return tomorrow after so long. Thanks so much for sharing some of that with us. Appreciate it.

DINAPOLI: Well, thank you, Erin, for having me.

BURNETT: All right. And it is just a few hours now. Suni Williams and Butch Wilmore will leave the International Space Station. Live coverage begins at 1:00 a.m. Eastern and Anderson takes over now.