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Erin Burnett Outfront
Trump Officials Accidentally Texted War Plans To Journalist; Any Moment: Ruling On Trump Deportations Under Wartime Law; Russians React To Trump Negotiator's Praise And Trust In Putin. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired March 24, 2025 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:29]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
The breaking news, extraordinary breach. Top administration officials accidentally texting a reporter detailed war plans revealing confidential details about strikes before they happened. And just moments ago, Trump appearing to mock it all.
Also, exclusive photos on the ground of migrants arriving at a supermax prison, heads being shaven, some pleading innocence begging for their lives. The reporter who captured those images the world is talking about is here, OUTFRONT tonight.
And they call themselves the "Cannamoms", moms getting together to smoke pot. They say it makes them better parents, better partners. It is a story you'll see first here.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
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BURNETT: Good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
And OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news. Trump mocking an extraordinary security breach. Moments ago, reposting a message from Elon Musk saying, quote: Best place to hide a dead body is page two of "The Atlantic" magazine.
That post mocking a shocking security breach by Trump's national security advisor, defense secretary, secretary of state and vice president.
Well, here's what happened: Mike Waltz, Trump's national security advisor, apparently accidentally added "The Atlantic" journalist Jeffrey Goldberg to a top secret group chat on Signal, a group chat about an American attack on a foreign adversary. So its top secret, except for they put a reporter in it.
Then they went on to detail classified information about a U.S. missile attack before they did it. According to Goldberg, it all started when he received a request to connect with Michael Waltz. Goldberg accepted. He was unsure whether this was real, but this is really Trump's national security advisor or someone masquerading as Waltz.
So he clicks. Yes. And then the group starts to get active. Two days later, Goldberg is included in a group chat called Houthis PC small group. So Waltz requests him as a contact, then adds him into this group.
And the first message comes in from what appears to be Waltz's account to the group: Team -- establishing a principals group for coordination on Houthis, particularly for over the next 72 hours.
And then that's when it got hot in there. According to Goldberg, 18 members of Trump administration were added to this chat, and in that group, Vice President Vance, Defense Secretary Hegseth, Tulsi Gabbard, the secretary of state, the director of national intelligence, CIA director, chief of staff, they're all in the group chat.
And Friday morning, Goldberg says the account linked to Waltz texts the group again. Team, you should have a statement of conclusions with taskings per the president's guidance this morning in your high side inboxes.
Now, high side refers to a classified communications system. But of course, then they started to talk about all this stuff in the group. The account labeled Vance responds in part, I think we're making a mistake. I'm not so sure the president is aware of how inconsistent this is with his message on Europe right now.
There's some more back and forth with various parties. And then what we're going to show you. Here is a screenshot of some of the messages that followed. Vance says if you think we should do it, let's go. I just hate bailing Europe out again. Let's just make sure our messaging is tight there. Hegseth replies, I fully share your loathing of European freeloading. It's, all caps, pathetic. But Mike is correct. We're the only ones on the planet who can do this.
Stephen Miller chimes in. As I heard it, the president was clear, green light.
So then Saturday, March 15th rolls around in the morning. The account labeled Hegseth posts quote team update. And it is then that, according to Goldberg, the secretary of defense of the United States of America posted confidential information about targets and weapons that the U.S. would use in the attack. And two hours later, the U.S. did indeed do just that, and struck Yemen.
And on that group chat, there was a whole lot of messages. You see them, you know, on fire and, you know, fist flag from Waltz. Good start from Ratcliffe. Several Rubio good job, Pete and your team. Miller, good work. All powerful start.
You know, and all of this conversation. None of them actually checked who was in the group. None of them actually 18 of them. No one actually checked the number. No one looked, and saw that a reporter was among them, or someone they didn't know a number they never looked. Imagine how easy it would have been for a spy. And yet, the
administration is acting like the entire situation isn't insane, and that posting information about targets and weapons and a U.S. missile strike classified confidential against a foreign adversary to "The Atlantic" magazine is totally cool. The spokesman for the National Security Council writes, quote, the threat is a demonstration of the deep and thoughtful policy coordination between senior officials.
And Trump decided to make it all about how he says "The Atlantic" is a sub-par magazine.
[19:05:05]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't know anything about it. I'm not a big fan of the Atlantic. It's -- to me, it's a magazine that's going out of business. I think it's not much of a magazine, but I know nothing about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Okay. His defense secretary posted classified targets and weapons in a chat with his vice president, his national security adviser, and a reporter is in the chat, and Trump slams the magazine he works for?
If there is anything about this, it is this. It sure is a change of tone from what we've heard before.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Hillary Clinton is the one that gives away classified information.
John Bolton is incompetent. Okay? But here's -- here's what he did. He released classified information.
Joe Biden removed highly sensitive classified documents from the White House, despite having no authority to do so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Well, when it comes to the men in this particular chat, they too have had tough words for those who are loosey-goosey with confidential information.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: Hillary Clinton put some of the highest, most sensitive intelligence information on her private server because maybe she thinks she's above the law, or maybe she just wanted the convenience of being able to read this stuff on her Blackberry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Well, now, we're all reading his stuff because they decided to include a reporter from "The Atlantic" in it.
The sitting national -- Waltz said that Biden sitting. Here's what he'd said in the past. Biden's sitting national security advisor, Jake Sullivan, sent top secret messages to Hillary Clinton's private account. And what did DOJ do about it? Not a damn thing.
Well, I wonder if this time they will do a thing about it. Do something as grave as this mean, anything will happen.
Jeff Zeleny is live OUTFRONT -- outside the White House.
And, Jeff, Secretary of Defense Hegseth actually just landed in Hawaii. He's speaking right now, actually. Let's listen.
PETE HEGSETH, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I tell you something. This is a trip we've had circled on the calendar from the beginning. The Indo-Pacific, shifting priorities to make sure were deterring threats to the future. President Trump's been focused on that, reestablishing the warrior ethos, rebuilding our military, and ultimately reestablishing deterrence is critically important.
And so we're out here to talk to our commanders and more importantly, meet with the troops all across the Indo-Pacific. And then our allies and partners, too, are going to be a critical part of ensuring the future in this region is free. And so, we're glad to be here. It's a beautiful day and a full workday on the plane. Now, we've got a full workday here as well and looking forward to it.
One question.
REPORTER: Can you share how your information about war plans against the Houthis in Yemen was shared with a journalist in "The Atlantic", and were those details classified?
HEGSETH: So I -- you're talking about a deceitful and highly discredited so-called journalist who's made a profession of peddling hoaxes time and time again to include the, I don't know, the hoaxes of Russia, Russia, Russia or the fine people on both sides hoax, or suckers and losers hoax. So this is a guy that peddles in garbage. This is what he does.
I would love to comment on the Houthi campaign because of the skill and courage of our troops. I've monitored it very closely from the beginning, and you see, we've been managing four years of deferred maintenance under the Trump administration.
Our troops, our sailors were getting shot at as targets. Our ships couldn't sail through. And when they did shoot back, it was purely defensively or at shacks in Yemen. President Trump said, no more. We will reestablish deterrence. We will open freedom of navigation, and we will ultimately decimate the Houthis, which is exactly what were doing as we speak from the beginning, overwhelmingly.
REPORTER: Why were those details shared on Signal? And how did you learn that a journalist was privy to the targets, the types of weapons used? HEGSETH: I've heard -- I've heard it was characterized. Nobody was
texting war plans. And that's all I have to say about that. Thank you. Appreciate it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's it. That's it.
REPORTER: The NSC said it was authentic. Mr. Secretary?
BURNETT: All right. Obviously didn't want to take those questions after the disparaging comments he made about Jeffrey Goldberg from "The Atlantic", making it about that he's a deceitful so-called journalist. Of course, he's the one that they chose to include in their group, accidentally or not. That's what happened.
All right. Jeff Zeleny, now, we've just heard the defense secretary break his silence on this. This is not going to get smaller at this moment.
ZELENY: Well, Erin, he just said nobody was texting war plans. That is in direct contrast to what the White House said. They verified the authenticity of the messages that were sent out, and they said that there was going to be a review of how the reporter happened to join or be asked to join.
So that is at odds with their of course, you heard the defense secretary launch into a litany of other matters that are not germane to this point here.
But the bottom line of all this is the president is saying that he has the utmost confidence in his national security adviser, Mike Waltz, who apparently invited Jeffrey Goldberg onto this chat.
[19:10:09]
We shall see.
This is the very beginning of this, and we know that everyone always has the utmost confidence until they don't. So we will see how this unfolds.
I am learning tonight that White House officials are reviewing how the -- the encrypted app Signal is used. It was used widely during the presidential campaign, and that's not unusual. A lot of people talk and signal it at places of business or in government. But this is a different matter because it is a military exercise.
So I'm told its being reviewed. One official telling me this, everyone is on signal all day, all night. That may well change. We shall see.
But the -- this is going to be front and center tomorrow on Capitol Hill, where Republicans and Democrats alike have raised deep questions about this because there happens to be a key Senate hearing tomorrow that's looking at worldwide threats.
So the director of national intelligence, the CIA director, are scheduled to testify at this hearing. That always has a lot of attention on it, because they talk about the threats facing the world. Now, suddenly, some new questions for them about this administration, Erin.
BURNETT: Yes, certainly going to be coming up tomorrow, because those individuals you just mentioned were all part of the chat.
All right. Jeff Zeleny, thank you very much.
I want to go now to Democratic Senator Ruben Gallego. He's a marine combat veteran who served in Iraq.
And, Senator, you just heard the defense secretary refer to Jeffrey Goldberg, "The Atlantic" reporter who Mike Waltz invited into the group chat, right? He was invited by the group, and then he sat in there. Nobody ever looked. He called him a deceitful so-called journalist.
He didn't have any answer as to why he was in the group or -- or anything. I mean, what do you make of his response? How he's chosen to answer it? He, of course, is the one who posted those war plans.
SEN. RUBEN GALLEGO (D-AZ): First of all, you know, as secretary of defense and as a former army officer, you know, the secretary of defense should know better. He needs to take responsibility for what happened under his watch. If -- if I had done any of this as a marine, I would have clearly been court-martialed. There have been other people that have dealt and done some very serious time because of things of this nature.
But the fact that he won't take any leadership, any ownership, and try to get to the bottom of this puts us even in a worse situation. Operational security is extremely important, not because it keeps the reputation of the secretary of defense. It's what keeps our armed services, armed forces safe.
And the fact that there is such a cavalier attitude should really worry everybody that cares about our armed services.
BURNETT: And I want to ask you about something else, he said. Obviously, the White House has confirmed these messages, have confirmed that this that this happened. And he denies that there were any war plans posted. But in fact, that there were, right?
Goldberg has -- has the targets and weapons. These were posted by Defense Secretary Hegseth. So, the targets and the weapons to be used to hit them. All of that posted by Hegseth. Apparently, he's denying that now. It seems that he did just deny that, even though that happened.
Senator, just to be clear, Goldberg did not publish that information because the Atlantic felt that it would be inappropriate and wrong. They did not publish it, but it was put into the group.
GALLEGO: This is a distraction. This is a distraction that we're talking about. Goldberg. We should be talking about the fact that, you know, secretary of defense was unqualified to begin with, and now he's actually proven himself.
This is a mistake that under any other administration would have ready made for the secretary of defense to resign. The fact that they're trying again, treated as a cavalier attitude. What does it say to our allies? What does it say to our enemies?
Now, the Houthis don't necessarily have a very good signal intelligence capabilities or, or capabilities to hack and track our phones. But they do have allies. They are allied with Iran. They are sometimes allied with other malign actors. They may be able to do that.
And the fact that now everyone knows that some of our most key national security advisers are all talking on Signal should really scare us. And the fact that this is happening and you have an utter lack of leadership coming from this administration, from secretary of defense, is absolutely offensive.
BURNETT: Your colleague, Republican John Cornyn, Senator, told our Manu Raju that the, quote that the quote -- I'm sorry, it sounds like a huge screw up. And then Congressman Don Bacon, another Republican, former Air Force veteran, and a signals intelligence officer, just told Manu this. I wanted to play it for you, Senator.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DON BACON (R-NE): I will guarantee you, 99.99 percent with confidence, Russia and China are monitoring those two phones. So I just think it's just a -- it's a security violation. And there's no doubt that Russia and China saw this stuff, you know, within hours of the actual attacks on Yemen or the Houthis. So -- so that's wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Obviously, the two phones he appears to be referring to are the, the security adviser and the vice president. There's obviously -- CIA was in there. I mean, they were all in there, defense secretary.
[19:15:01]
So -- but -- how are your Republican colleagues that you've spoken to? Do they have that outrage and are they willing, like Senator Cornyn, like Congressman Bacon, to speak out?
GALLEGO: Look, we are barely getting back into session. But I'll tell you what we know for a fact. Had this been done by the Biden administration, the Biden administration or the Obama administration, Republicans would be losing their minds. And the fact that they're not is that they treat this national security breach as a partisan issue.
This is not a partisan issue. If a Democrat had done this, we would be just as outraged. And someone within that chain, someone who's responsible, whether it's the secretary of defense or whether its walls one someone has to take responsibility and someone has to resign for this. This is very dangerous. These are national security communications
happening. You're talking about targeting -- you're talking about weapons. You're talking when they're going to go, when they're going to fly.
And the fact that it was done in such a cavalier attitude also just gives you an overall bigger problem happening with this administration that they feel they can just run amok at this point and feel that there's no consequences.
The consequences, though, are the safety of our Armed Services Committee and the fact that they're not treating this seriously should really question whether Secretary of Defense Hegseth should still be in there, because he's not dealing with the moments.
BURNETT: All right, Senator Gallego, I appreciate your time. And thank you very much.
GALLEGO: Thank you.
BURNETT: Ryan Goodman is with me now, legal analyst here OUTFRONT and former special counsel at the Department of Defense.
So, Ryan, you just heard Senator Gallego saying one or more of them needs to go. I mean, Waltz is the one who invited the reporter into the group. Hegseth is the one who posted the targets and weapons used to target.
Obviously, from this at this moment, it doesn't seem like anyone's going to resign. We'll see. But -- I mean, when we say an extraordinary breach, is that the right word?
RYAN GOODMAN, FORMER SPECIAL COUNSEL AT DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE: Absolutely. I don't know of any analog in history that\s like this.
And when these kinds of war plans are discussed at the Pentagon, there are many rooms that you can't even have the discussion in the Pentagon. You have to go to highly secure rooms. Oftentimes they're windowless because they need to be that secure from U.S. adversaries being able to eavesdrop. If there's a window, then it has to be highly secured window.
You can't bring your device into that room. So they aren't even just like bringing their device into the room. They're using their personal devices to communicate over this commercial messaging app. I've never heard anything like it.
BURNETT: So could anyone in it be in legal trouble? Anyone who was in this group, if they if they are not in actual chain of command, getting fired or resigning trouble?
GOODMAN: Absolutely. If we had an independent justice department, I'm sure they'd be looking into this. If these were lower level officials, I'm sure they'd be looking into this.
The statute is actually one that many Americans can be familiar with. It's the Espionage Act, and there's a --
BURNETT: Gallego said he'd be court-martialed if he --
GOODMAN: That resonated with me when he said that, I was like, yes, that's very likely that would have been the result. Or when Hillary Clinton used a private server, the investigation by the Justice Department and the FBI was whether or not she was grossly negligent.
I think if you hear some of what the members of the Hill are saying, Republicans and Democrats alike, that this was grossly negligent, and that's actually the terms of the criminal statute for grossly having gross negligence in mishandling classified information. And in fact, if it's disclosed to somebody who's unauthorized and on their call as a journalist, that means there was also there was, in fact, a disclosure.
BURNETT: Right, right. And of course, secretary of defenses response was to deny what he did and to -- to disparage the journalist.
GOODMAN: Yeah.
BURNETT: All right, Ryan, thank you very much.
And next, the breaking news, a showdown in court. This, a tense hearing as Trump's DOJ tries to override a judge who grounded Trump's deportation flights. The decision could come at any moment right now.
And we have those exclusive photos from when the migrants arrived at the notorious prison, some sobbing, begging for their lives as their heads were shaved. The reporter who captured these images is our guest.
And then --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think Greenland is going to be something that maybe is in our future.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: A Danish official who told Trump to F off on the issue is our guest tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:23:05]
BURNETT: All right. The breaking news, we are standing by right now for a ruling in Trump's deportation flights case. Trump's DOJ arguing to an appeals court that Judge James Boasberg, who blocked the administration's use of the sweeping 18th century law, overstepped his authority.
Judge Patricia Millett, who was appointed by the appeals court or to the appeals court by former President Obama, slammed Trump's move. (BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
JUDGE PATRICIA MILLETT, APPEALS COURT: Nazis got better treatment under the Alien Enemy Act than has happened here.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BURNETT: Now, another judge on a three judge panel that's going to make this decision. So there's three of them. So you know where she stands.
Judge Justin Walker was appointed by Trump. He did appear to side with the DOJ, which means that it may all come down to Judge Karen Henderson. Judge Henderson was appointed by former President George H.W. Bush. She did not show her hand at all today, didn't ask a single question of either side.
All right. OUTFRONT now, Xochitl Hinojosa, former DOJ director of public affairs, and Marc Caputo of "Axios".
So, Xochitl, here we are waiting on a decision from a panel of judges. You've got three of them. The one appointed by Trump appears to be siding with the administration. The one appointed by Obama is the one who made the comment about Nazis being treated better than, than -- than the Trump administration treated these folks.
One, now, we're waiting by George H.W. Bush, Republican appointed judge. It really could all come down to her -- could. I mean, we don't know necessarily from the question, but that's what it appears to be. So this could come at any moment, a nail biter.
I mean, do you think the administration will be successful here or not?
XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So it's hard to tell. This has been an unprecedented case from the beginning. The reality is, is that what the D.C. circuit is ruling on is a very technical matter. They're not ruling on the alien enemies act. They're actually ruling when it comes to a fight between Judge Boasberg and the Department of Justice.
The Department of Justice and the administration, they used a statute from the 18th century. And essentially the judge said, hold on, wait a minute, issued a TRO, and said, I need some more information on this.
[19:25:10]
This hasn't been used in a long time. I would like some more information. The Justice Department stonewalled and instead they ended up filing this appeal that is now at the D.C. circuit.
So it is very process-oriented. I would say, as a general matter, no, I don't think the Justice Department would be successful. But given how everything in this matter has been unprecedented, from the calling to impeach the judge to everyone from their Department of Justice leadership, signing on to these filings, which never happens, it's clear that there is a lot of politics being played here, and its unclear where that last judge is going to rule.
BURNETT: Right. And that really could all come down to that then.
Then of course, Marc, depending how that goes, if Trump wins, then that's a victory in this one specific sense, right? Not -- not overall. But I mean is his bet, Marc, is his hope that this eventually all goes to the Supreme Court?
MARC CAPUTO, SENIOR POLITICS REPORTER, AXIOS: Right. That's where they want it to end up. The Trump administration wants to have more power and more ability to conduct deportations with a minimal amount of judicial oversight. And that's where this kind of obscure law, the Alien Enemies Act, comes in. There's also another law in another case that they're enforcing that sort of gives the executive more power, with less judicial oversight.
And in the Trump campaign, I always call it the Trump campaign. The Trump White House view is that the law is on their side, and the courts composition, ultimately at the Supreme Court is also on their side. That is, the number of Republican appointed justices outnumbers that of Democrats. And to them, those two factors are essentially the ballgame.
BURNETT: Right. That's what they bet on.
I mean, Xochitl, here's the thing, amid Trump's social media posts on this case last night. So he's, you know, focused on it, then he comes out with this message and let me just read it because it is a little out of left field. But this is how he spent his time.
Nobody likes a bad picture or painting of themselves, but the one in Colorado and the state capitol put up by the governor, along with all other presidents, was purposely distorted to a level that even I perhaps have never seen before. The artist also did President Obama, and he looks wonderful. But the one on me is truly the worst. She must have lost her talent as she got older.
All right. And then here's the picture he posted of the portrait.
So, Colorado officials say the portrait is now coming down. But, you know, here's the thing. So she has been on display since 2019. So what do you make of him posting about it now, right? It's been up for five years and he posts about it now last night amidst this other issue.
HINOJOSA: This is -- I mean, I don't know about you guys, but I can just picture Trump spiraling inside the White House about this terrible portrait instead of worrying about the heightened threat environment, instead of worrying about the cost that the grocery store, gas prices, our kids' education, all of these things, the potential measles outbreak, all of these things.
And I think that this is just the way that he is. He cares about what people think about him. He cares about how he is seen. This is something that clearly got under his skin, and this is how he was when he was president last time around. Nothing has changed about him. And so, I -- it's almost laughable, but it's really unfortunate. BURNETT: I mean, you know, Marc, I've been in a room with him where
he's complaining to the media about pictures he doesn't like change the pictures. It's used of me on the screen.
And then he posted after he posted about the portrait he didn't like, he posted images of himself that he does like that he wanted to make sure people see. I think I've seen this one at a National Park. That may be his formal one that goes up.
So why is it now, Marc, that he posts about this? It's been on display since 2019. What about this piques your interest?
CAPUTO: You're asking me to understand the mystery of Donald Trump's epistemology, like how information gets to him, and he talks to so many people and spends enough time on social media, and he's got enough aides who put things in front of him that you just never know where this stuff comes from. It just comes out of left field.
But to your point, Donald Trump, if he sees something, he says something. And if it annoys him, he just says it.
During the campaign, there was a dramatized documentary or a movie made called "The Apprentice" about Donald Trump's relationship with the infamous lawyer Roy Cohn. As a young man, how Roy Cohn helped make him into an initial success.
And he called a friend and said, I cannot believe this movie. It's terrible. Like, have you seen it? And, of course, Trump hadn't seen it.
And the other guy is like, yeah, I've seen it. But you know what? Don't watch it. Don't talk about it, don't post about it. No one will see it.
Well, Trump said, okay. And then around midnight, he posted on it anyway.
So he's going to swing at every pitch. And sometimes he's even going to set the ball on the tee and then pitch to himself and hit it.
BURNETT: Right, right.
Well, and of course he got what he wanted in this case.
All right. Thanks. Appreciate it both of you.
CAPUTO: It's true.
BURNETT: And next, exclusive images of suspected gang members on their way to a maximum security prison that houses some of the world's most dangerous criminals.
[19:30:04]
Grown men now pleading for their lives. And it appears, trying to get to the bottom of who these people are, whether some of them were even gang members or some -- some of them might have even been legally in the U.S. The photographer who was there, who saw it all, is going to speak out here next.
Plus, mothers turning to marijuana trying to take the stigma out of pot.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Moms who smoke weed should be just as acceptable as moms who drink wine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Tonight, an exclusive and disturbing account, a new account from the brutal prison where Trump is sending migrants in El Salvador. Philip Holsinger is a photographer, and he captured these exclusive images for "Time Magazine" and he is speaking out now. He was the only photographer not from the government on the ground that night, and we've exclusively taken you inside that maximum security prison.
[19:35:00]
It's housed some of the world's most dangerous criminals. Our David Culver has shown that to you. It's where El Salvador keeps what it calls the worst of the worst.
The U.S. secretary of -- homeland secretary is slated to visit this week, Kristi Noem.
OUTFRONT now, Philip Holsinger, photojournalist reporting for "Time".
And, Philip, this is a -- you know, you were the only one there. You're the only the eyes that were able to see this, that are able to share it with the world. Tell me what you saw.
PHILIP HOLSINGER, PHOTOJOURNALIST: Yeah. The -- I mean, the arrival that night was a in a way a typical transfer of, of you know, of, of people in, in El Salvador. It's a late night, literally. The, the planes landed around, I think, 10:30 p.m. and were surrounded by about -- about 500 military and then about 500 police officers and riot gear. Then, you know came to the bottom of the gangways of the planes, and then they prepared to offload the detainees.
BURNETT: So you're talking about a thousand military and police for this, for this one flight? Yeah.
HOLSINGER: Yeah. And that's -- that's, you know, in a way it's typical because -- because of the building of the CECOT super prison here. They, they move prisoners in country from the other jails, usually in large groups, usually around 2,000.
So they sort of have a methodology and they have to move them at night because the traffic is so bad that it's the only time that they can sort of safely move across the streets. So they -- it's but it's -- for someone who's never seen it, it's pretty -- it's pretty daunting to see black clad you know, policemen and soldiers and that that amount of people.
BURNETT: So I want to ask you about a few things, but first, about one young man specifically because you reference him in your reporting for "Time". You say that he claims to be a barber, not a gang member, and that he was sobbing. And can you tell me a little bit more about him and why, as you were photographing him and you were right there in those moments, why you believe him?
HOLSINGER: So the context of that writing is that I've spent over a year here in El Salvador documenting the security transformation in the country, working on a book here. And so I've had deep access to the prisons and, and unfortunately, I've -- I've learned the details of the horror that was going on here, because I've interviewed many of the murderers.
And so I had an expectation of what was going to be coming off the plane in terms of detainees, which was not what I expected. But also you -- you learn, as I'm sure you're aware, you -- you learn to read people and murderers. They don't whimper, you know, and I was -- it doesn't mean that somebody is innocent just because they whimper.
But a whimper is different than a growl, you know? And I think that as I begin to watch some of the, the detainees kind of unravel, it caught my attention because they're -- they looked different. They -- they didn't look like the kind of criminals I've been accustomed to around the world.
BURNETT: And you're using that plural. I mean, you're talking about that young man who says he's a barber. He said he was gay, right? I mean, he said he was. There's no way he would have been in this, in this gang because of these things.
There was another photo of a young man. Now the prisoner in this video, this is your picture. But also has been circulated by the president, Bukele, as his hair is being shaved off. So that's the one thing we've seen.
And you've said you can confirm he is MS-13, but that what you saw with him and seeing him is giving you nightmares. How come?
HOLSINGER: My daughter told me to be careful about being so graphic. I'll say that I've worked in war zones, I've worked all over the world, and -- and I've -- I've seen a lot of horror. And strangely, El Salvador is -- is the kindest country I've ever visited. It doesn't correlate, Erin.
It's -- people here for what they went through, it's amazing how generous and kind people are. They should all be bitter.
And part of my work here, I say, is that all the things I've seen in the world. I came to a kind country and I started having nightmares because I've read their files. I've interviewed hundreds of murderers in the prison. And what most people don't know is the MS-13 and Barrio 18, and Tren
de Aragua, what -- what's unique about these gangs is their protocol for murder.
[19:40:04]
They aren't just street thugs. They actually go to great ends to torture people.
And so one, you know, one type of person they have in the gangs is something they call the maestro of dismemberment. It's the master of dismemberment. And this guy that was the main MS-13 guy they brought back was one of the leaders who was ordering these, you know, devilish murders.
BURNETT: Philip, thank you very much. I appreciate it, as is, obviously. I know your nightmares and tortures you, but you are giving all of us a view that we must have. And I thank you for that. I know everyone watching does.
Thank you.
HOLSINGER: Thank you, Erin.
BURNETT: All right.
And tonight, Trump's special negotiator, Steve Witkoff -- Steve Witkoff sending shockwaves around the globe when he said he doesn't believe Putin will try to conquer Europe at all.
Our Fred Pleitgen is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Despite unrelenting fighting between Russian and Ukrainian forces on various fronts and Moscow saying its troops continue to make headway, President Trump's special negotiator saying he trusts Russian President Vladimir Putin, has no further ambitions in Europe beyond Ukraine.
STEVE WITKOFF, U.S. SPECIAL ENVOY TO THE MIDDLE EAST: I just don't see that he wants to take all of Europe. This is a much different situation than it was in World War II. In World War II, there was no NATO. So I just -- you have countries that are armed there. I just -- to me, it just -- it just -- I take him at his word in this sense.
PLEITGEN: But the Ukrainians say Russia is continuing an aerial blitz with drones and missiles, a strike in the northern Sumy region today, leaving dozens injured, Kyiv says, and Moscow accuses Ukraine of stepping up attacks on Russian energy installations, despite an agreement with the Trump administration not to do so, even though Kyiv denies the allegations.
The Kremlin seemingly pushing the brakes on talk of a possible imminent full ceasefire. Of course, there are still many different aspects related to the settlement that need to be worked out, the Kremlin spokesman said.
As U.S. and Russian negotiators met in Saudi Arabia's capital, Riyadh, to try and hammer out some of those details, Steve Witkoff says the last time he met Putin, he saw a special relationship between the Russian leader and President Trump, developing Witkoff told Tucker Carlson.
WITKOFF: You know, it got personal. The president, President Putin, had commissioned a beautiful portrait of President Trump from the leading Russian artist and actually gave it to me and asked me to take it home to President Trump, which I brought home and delivered to him. It's been reported in the paper, but it was such a gracious moment and told me a story, Tucker, about how when the president was shot, he went to his local church and met with his priest and prayed for the president, not because he was the president of the United -- he could become the president of the united states. But because he had a friendship with him and he was praying for his friend.
PLEITGEN: Those words reverberating on the streets of Moscow.
He said that President Putin had ordered a portrait of Donald Trump. What did you think about that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know -- I don't know, it's maybe a symbol of a growing relationships. I don't know what to think about that.
PLEITGEN: Do you think they're friends? Witkoff said that he was praying for a friend.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, yes, he said so, but I don't know. Maybe. Maybe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe they have a quite good relationship between them. So I believe that everything will be fine.
PLEITGEN: The Trump administration also says they believe things will be worked out, even as the Kremlin cautions, many tough issues still need to be solved to end the fighting in Ukraine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PLEITGEN (on camera): And Erin, as far as those technical talks in Riyadh today are concerned, the Russians are only saying their negotiating team is heading back to Moscow to brief Russian President Vladimir Putin on all of this. And a source in the White House telling our own Alex Marquardt tonight, only that the talks went very well and that they expect to have a positive announcement, as they put it, in the near future, but not any clue as to when that will be and what that will be -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Of course, whether it's more meaningful than the, you know, cease fire of infrastructure, which was not.
Thank you very much, Fred, live from Moscow. And next, President Trump dispatching the second lady to Greenland as he steps up his pressure campaign to seize Greenland. The Danish official, who once told Trump to F off, is next.
Plus, they call themselves Cannamoms. They get together to smoke pot and unwind and they say they are better moms for it.
[19:45:01]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And as far as motherhood, it helps me be able to calm down and handle the situation at hand.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:47:46]
BURNETT: New tonight, President Trump defending a trip to Greenland this week by Second Lady Usha Vance and his national security advisor. Trump also insisting, though, that he still wants to control the island.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: This is friendliness, not provocation. We're dealing with a lot of people from Greenland that would like to see something happen with respect to their being properly protected and properly taken care of. They're calling us. We're not calling them. And we were invited over there. I think Greenland is going to be something that maybe is in our future.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: He says they're calling him. Well, the prime minister of Greenland isn't the one making the call, that's for sure. Calls the trip highly aggressive. The incoming prime minister agrees.
It's the same view as our next guest, Anders Vistisen, a Danish member of the European Parliament who recently said this about Trump's push to get Greenland.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERS VISTISEN, DANISH LAWMAKER WHO ADDRESSED TRUMP AT EU SESSION: Let me put it in words. You might understand. Mr. Trump, (EXPLETIVE DELETED) off.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Anders Vistisen is now OUTFRONT.
Anders, it's good to speak to you again. I mean, you just heard President Trump say this trip by the second lady and the national security advisor all happening this week as a friendly visit, that it was it was you all in Greenland calling them and not the other way around. They were invited.
What do you say to him?
VISTISEN: I don't know how many ways you can say no to that guy and not get through. In a sense, all the Greenlandic parties that were just elected into the Greenlandic parliament have signed a joint declaration that they don't want to belong to the United States. And no official political level in Greenland, from mayor and upwards have accepted to meet with this so-called delegation from the U.S.
So I think we're getting near the area of stalking if this was into a human to human relationship. But to be more serious about it, the Greenlandic people are concerned with this very aggressive behavior from the U.S. administration.
BURNETT: Well, I mean, obviously its very serious. I mean, Trump and other conversations has made the point that, you know, a military takeover wouldn't be out of the question. He didn't say that today, but he has said it before, as you know.
And Usha Vance, the second lady, she says she's looking forward to her visit. She says it's about a dog sled race that the U.S. is sponsoring. And here's what else she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
USHA VANCE, U.S. SECOND LADY: I'm also coming to celebrate the long history of mutual respect and cooperation between our nations, and to express hope that our relationship will only grow stronger in the coming years. I look forward to meeting many of you soon, and to learning from you about your beautiful land, culture and traditions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So she's coming with the national security adviser. What do you say to this delegation, in her words?
VISTISEN: I think that they are very much taking out of a pipe dream that some people in the U.S., apparently is carrying around. No one in Greenland expect -- has no one elected in Greenland have sort of indicated that there should be an interest to have a takeover from the U.S. Nobody believes in the fact that they should have a better treatment within the realm of -- of the United States than within the Kingdom of Denmark.
The real question is, is in Greenland, whether they want more independence for themselves, but they have made it absolutely clear that that is not going to happen under the U.S., sort of taking over certain areas of competence from them or from Denmark.
So I think it's -- it's very strange that we keep hearing these voices in the U.S.
BURNETT: So let me play something very direct here from the vice president. Just recently, he gave an interview to Fox News. And again, he's pretty direct here, Anders. Let me play it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Denmark, which controls Greenland, it's not doing its job and it's not being a good ally. So you have to ask yourself, how are we going to solve that problem? Solve our own national security? If that means that we need to take more territorial interest in Greenland, that is what President Trump is going to do, because he doesn't care about what the Europeans scream at us. He cares about putting the interests of America's citizens first.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: I mean, the threat there is -- is only thinly veiled, Anders, right, that Denmark is not being a good ally. And if that means the U.S. has to take more territorial interest in Greenland, then that is what President Trump is going to do.
Does anyone take that talk seriously, that -- that talk that's walking right up to the line of military action?
VISTISEN: Yeah, of course, we take it seriously and we are deeply offended by it. I think Mr. Vance and this administration forgets that Denmark have had higher casualties in Afghanistan and Iraq than America did. So if that's a bad ally, then I don't really know what a good ally is in this administration's eyes.
So first of all, we find it deeply offensive. We have been allies with the U.S. for decades. We have been very solid and strong on all areas.
When it comes to Greenland, it is the U.S. who, year after year, have taken away their military presence in the island of Greenland, which have been there by agreement with the Danish government for more than 70 years. So everyone has let down military security in Greenland, it's the American government, not the Danish one.
BURNETT: All right, Anders, thank you very much. I appreciate you.
And next, moms in the United States smoking pot to blow off steam. And they'll tell you why they say it works.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:55:49]
BURNETT: Tonight, moms smoking pot. For the first time ever, women have surpassed men when it comes to marijuana use in America.
And tonight, we're hearing from a group of moms who get together to smoke. They say that they are better parents and that they are better partners because of it.
And Meena Duerson has this special report OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) MEENA DUERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: These are the St. Louis Cannamoms, and this is game night.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Game night is a night out with your besties, away from the kids. You're meeting new friends. You're going to be gifted some joints. You're going to play some games, and you're just going to live your best kid-free life for a couple of hours.
DUERSON: Here in Missouri, recreational cannabis has been legal since late 2022. Every few months, these moms get together to consume.
What is special about this being like a room full of moms?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It gets me out of the house. The women here are all very accepting.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You put marijuana and the mom together, it doesn't really go together.
DUERSON: Why do you think people care if its a mom?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because moms are supposed to do everything. They're supposed to be this picture perfect person.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're held to a certain standard.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mom said smoke weed should be just as acceptable as moms who drink wine. It should be, you know, something that is exactly the same.
DUERSON: And do you think that they're not treated like that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not at all.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Both of us used to drink. We used to go to the bar. We used to go out.
DUERSON: What's the difference?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Huge. I will never in the world understand how marijuana was illegal for so long and alcohol was legal. When alcohol is literally killed and destroyed so many people in my family's lives.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Girl, hey, have you been. I've missed you.
DUERSON: Jessica Carroll and Kimberly Kesterson (ph) started this group to help moms like themselves find and support each other.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We just really have created a community, a space where women come together. They laugh.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you're any parent like me, you put your children first. So to be able to step away and give yourself some time and do some self-care, it's hard to do.
DUERSON: A lot of these women say their kids know they smoke, and that weed actually helps them be better moms.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They see that I'm not doing it to party. I'm doing it to relax. And as far as motherhood, it helps me be able to calm down and handle the situation at hand. I normally do it in the nighttime or right after I get my kids on their scheduled sleep.
DUERSON: So for you, like you're tucking your kids into bed, they're asleep and you're like.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's time for me to relax. I got through the day kind of like a replenish myself. I water myself like a plant.
DUERSON: Cannabis is still illegal at the federal level. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention warns it may have, quote, a wide range of health effects on the body and brain, and cautions against smoking and driving.
For these moms, the group is about a lot more than getting high. St. Louis Cannamoms, one of dozens of similar Facebook groups around the country, has more than 4,000 members and provides donations to moms in need.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not just me and my kids. I don't know where we would be without them. They're -- they're my family.
UNIDENTIFIED FMALE: Being a mom is hard.
That's not nice, Benjamin.
There's so many expectations on you and we feel like we have to be perfect. We feel shame around our blow ups and having a hard day.
All right, I'm going to step out.
And so I think its super important that were able to see that there are so many other moms that go through the same struggles.
DUERSON: Do you see it now as like a tool in your parenting?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, yeah, for sure. I think it definitely helps me stay patient. I actually want to sit down and do stuff with my kids instead of sit and scroll on my phone all day.
Triceratops! You found them.
DUERSON: Do you get any backlash?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just, you know, you're a bad mom. You shouldn't have your kid because you smoke.
DUERSON: People said that to you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You see the baby?
I feel like I'm at a space now where I feel very secure within myself and who I am and how I use cannabis. Here. Get up here, brush your teeth.
And if people want to judge me for that, or make an assumption that I'm a bad mom, then let them.
Go. Put your dinosaurs in your room.
DUERSON: That's not something that's keeping you up at night.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, not at all. Absolutely not.
Are you going to say good night?
KIDS: Good night.
DUERSON: Meena Duerson CNN, St. Louis, Missouri.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: Hopefully an amazing piece that gets a lot of conversations going.
Thanks so much for being with us.
Anderson starts now.
