Return to Transcripts main page

Erin Burnett Outfront

U.S. Credit Rating Cut By Moody's Over Rising Government Debt; Supreme Court Blocks Trump From Using Wartime Law For Deportations; Secret Service Interviews Ex-FBI Chief Comey Over Instagram Post; Trump Wants A Putin Meeting, Touts "Very Good Relationship". Aired 7- 8p ET

Aired May 16, 2025 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:28]

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:

Breaking news, a punishing blow to the U.S. economy. America just losing the elite, the top, the most important AAA rating on its debt. The concern is America's exploding debt amid Trump's trade war and spending. So, what is America doing about it?

Also breaking, a Supreme setback. The nation's highest court blocking Trump's efforts to deport migrants using a centuries' old law. Tonight, Trump just responding as he's in the air on his way home.

And detached from reality. That is what Ukraine is saying tonight after Putin's men made a series of demands during peace talks.

Let's go OUTFRONT.

And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.

OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news. A major downgrade. Moody's slashing the credit rating of the United States of America.

Now, up until now, Moody's had been the only major credit agency which provides the rating on all the debt out there holding firm. Tonight, though, no, it is over. There isn't one holdout anymore. None of them rate America the top credit anymore.

Fitch, Standard and Poor's had slashed America's ratings years ago. According to Moody's, this downgrade and I quote, reflects the increase over more than a decade in government debt and interest payment ratios to levels that are significantly higher than similarly rated countries.

And Trump wanted to add to that debt with his so-called one big, beautiful bill. I mean, there was all that COVID money that got added by him and Biden, and now that bill, the one that Trump was putting out, is hitting a major roadblock tonight.

There are Republicans who are blocking the massive tax and immigration package, and they are doing so, they say, over concerns about the $2.5 trillion that would add to America's $36.2 trillion debt load. In other words, this whole budget was full of trillions of dollars of money that nobody was ever going to pay for.

Unfunded spending, more than $2 trillion, translates into a word we all know, borrowing. And America's debt already exceeds the size of the entire U.S. economy by a lot. When you take a look at the ratio of government debt to gross domestic product, so the debt ratio to the size of the U.S. economy, it's 123 percent. So that means for every dollar that we produce goods and services in America, for every dollar, we are borrowing $1.23.

Now, obviously that is not sustainable. We all know that you can't do that in your own life and continue. But here's the thing that makes it even worse. A year, ten years ago, it was 1 to 1, $1 of output, $1 of borrowing. Now you might still say that's still not a good idea. Sure, you'd be right.

But to go from 1 to 1 10 years ago to 1 to $1.23 now, that is horrible. For every other country with debt to GDP ratios that have approached anything like what the United States is facing now, utter disaster often follows, actually, almost always follows.

I mean, in Argentina in 2001, when they had to devalue their currency debt to GDP ratio was at an unsustainable level. Investors lost faith. They said, that's it. Guess what? We're not going to lend you more money. It's not going to continue.

They had to reprice their debt. The fallout, violent protests, a plunge in the standard of living, mass unrest. Argentina has never recovered.

And the only thing that has held America back from this outcome so far is that the world does continue to lend the United States money, and they do that because they believe the economy is hold, because they believe in the rule of law in this country, and that the president will do what the courts say, among other things, the world's dominant currency is the U.S. dollar since World War II. It stands for safety and stability, and people lend the United States dollars because they are happy to get dollars, because right now, gold, oil, gas, you name it, all are priced in dollars.

So, for now, the world needs dollars and they're willing to lend us money to get them. But Trump has put the U.S. dollar at grave risk because of his trade war. And America first, or America alone policy. And these trade deals that Trump has talked about currently don't exist. So far. There have been two frameworks put out there, no deals.

And it is why some of America's closest allies, like Canada, are reevaluating their entire view of their relationship and view of the United States.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK CARNEY, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: The system of global trade anchored on the United States that Canada has relied on since the end of the Second World War, a system that, while not perfect, has helped to deliver prosperity for our country for decades, is over. Canada must be looking elsewhere to expand our trade. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: It's over and Canada must be looking elsewhere.

[19:05:01]

Of all the things that have been said in the past couple of months, it's hard to forget that one, that is Canada. The U.S. economy is at a tipping point.

As we have pointed out on this show, actually since the day it launched on October 3rd, 2011, the major debt problem in this country is not new. It has just gotten so, so, so much worse. But since that very first day, we have asked one simple question again and again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

BURNETT: It has been 59 days since the U.S. lost its top credit rating. What are we doing to get it back?

It has been 76 days since the U.S. lost its top credit rating.

It has been 137 days, 150 days, 209 days, 200, 237 days, 175, 567 days, 652 days, 697 765 days since the U.S. lost its top credit rating.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

BURNETT: Jeff Zeleny has been traveling with the president. He is OUTFRONT, live in Abu Dhabi.

So, Jeff, how is the White House reacting tonight to this downgrade by Moody's?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Erin, just a few moments ago, we got the first reaction from the White House. They are dismissing the analysis and then they are blaming the situation on the spending, they say, from the Biden administration during the pandemic era. And then they go on to use this as an argument for why Republicans on the in the House and Senate should pass the presidents, as he calls it, one big, beautiful tax bill.

But, Erin, what that does is shine a light on the fact that it is not moving in the House. Republicans control all levers of government, the House, Senate and the White House, as we well know. But the true measure of the Trump presidency, of course, is going to be his legislative agenda, not the executive orders that he signs. Pretty much every day. Its going to be the legislation that he signs and his tax legislation that would extend his tax cuts and find spending elsewhere is being held up in the House by Republicans.

There's some major infighting going on. So, yes, the White House is dismissing this. They're calling it a partisan analysis. But the bottom line is, is the president is still making his way back to Washington. He is scheduled to land in a couple hours. This is what is awaiting him. After a week of opulence here, after a week of trillion dollar deals,

he is a returning back to the U.S. to a consumer sentiment is up at near record levels. We talked last evening about how Walmart is raising its prices and tariff deals as well. The president acknowledged the difficulty of signing all these tariff deals. Whatever happened to 90 deals and 90 days, as we heard? So much of that appears to be out the window as there are going to be 150 separate deals.

The president said that's too many to work out. So, they're just going to basically revert to the previous tariffs. So, the bottom line here is, as we've said from the beginning, the economy and prices is what helped elect this president. And it's going to determine his success in office, at least for the short term -- Erin.

BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Jeff Zeleny, as I said in Abu Dhabi tonight. And, you know, as we look at this, they will be dismissive of this. Perhaps that is no surprise. But the reality of it is, is that this is a significant moment for America.

Einstein and Ives are here with me now.

And, Dan, you know, the U.S. has now lost its perfect credit rating. Moody's, citing the debt burden, write that it is unsustainable and it is unsustainable. Right. Theres one reason that we haven't had a massive crisis yet, and that's because the rest of the world buys a lot of stuff already priced in dollars. So, and our rule of law, things that have helped us. But this matters.

DAN IVES, GLOBAL HEAD OF TECHNOLOGY RESEARCH, WEDBUSH SECURITIES: Look, it matters, but also I think it speaks to this sort of balancing act right now that that were going through because when you look at the debt and ultimately what everyone knows in terms of this country, it also speaks to tax cuts and ultimately tariffs and what that's going to add to some of the uncertainty. And I think investors right now they're trying to figure out, okay, what's -- what's the fiscal policy. What' s -- what does this mean for the economy.

And I think that's why right now we're right now in what I would call a quagmire. And I think this speaks to that in terms of what we're seeing.

BURNETT: You know, it's interesting. Penn Wharton School had done an analysis and they said, were not there yet, but it could be very close to a moment where it does not matter what you cut, and it does not matter what money you raise. It will be too late.

PETER TUCHMAN, TRADER AT THE NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE: You know, what we saw the consumer sentiment numbers came out earlier today. They were disappointing. You know, it seems like this has come on really quickly, you know, and it's, obviously, we are sort of thrown off, at least in my world. I see things through the eyes of the stock exchange and the stock market.

And we've seen this sort of odd climb of the wall of worry and the market rallying up, and we've regained all that. Sometimes markets and economies go together in concert. Sometimes they are completely divergent. And were being fooled almost, that things are okay when in fact they're not. And so that we need to catch up on that.

And it's so important that were covering that story because, you know, people tend to look at what we're doing on Wall Street and think that things are okay. Now, we made back those 20 percent and things are not good. And we still don't know the numbers on tariffs, and we still don't know where we are. And this -- this seemed like once again.

IVES: And to Peter's point, I think it also speaks to -- there's a lot more wood to chop here.

[19:10:05]

In other words, like this is just the first chapter of where this is all heading.

BURNETT: Yeah. And okay.

TUCHMAN: So into this experience.

BURNETT: I had a whole whiteboard ready. I'm going to save it for next week. But then when the U.S. got downgraded, I just wanted to put some numbers up here.

So according to the U.S. Treasury -- so, this isn't anybody's estimate. This is nothing like that. Okay? This is like the U.S. Treasury numbers. This is how much money the United States spent on interest expense last year, $1.13 trillion.

Now, that should make anybody, you know, blanch, right? That's awful. But let me just compare it to this. The DOD budget, $850 billion. Okay? So we're spending more on interest than the DOD.

Let's just take a look at Medicare. And I'm not adding in chips. I'm not adding in Medicaid. I'm just going with Medicare, $839 billion. Okay?

This number should not be bigger than all these numbers. It should not be. And this is the reality we are in now.

IVES: It's the reality. It's also that as a percent, when you think about like a percent of GDP and everything that continues to increase in terms of the interest and look, and that's why it also speaks to why it's everything Tuchman and I have talked about the next 12 to 18 months, the way that this Trump administration navigates the budget in terms of tariffs, the economy. I mean, these are all -- it's such a pivotal period for this country.

And I think it also speaks to why there's been so much nervousness, you know, in terms of what we've seen with tariffs and what that could create in terms of for the U.S. consumer.

TUCHMAN: How about when we started to see from February 19th record highs, we saw the market sort of, you know, fall off a cliff. And we saw all this tariff talk and we were wondering, like, why? Why are why is he doing this now? And why are we doing this such an aggressive way as opposed to laying out the groundwork and giving us some reality, because we know the market can handle anything except uncertainty?

And one of the explanations, his motivation was that if we drive down the price of the market and then were able to adjust interest rates and bonds and yields, then we'll be able to refinance that debt at a different rate.

BURNETT: It's a really weird way to get your interest costs down.

TUCHMAN: That's what seemed really odd to me. And I'm far from -- I know I look like Einstein. I'm not that smart, but that's what the -- that's what the economists were saying. That was originally one of his motivations was to get it to the point where we could refinance all that debt at a much lower rate.

IVES: And the 10 years at 4.5, right? So, to your point, it's kind of the opposite.

BURNETT: So, then it comes to these trade deals as one piece of this. Right. He's got a budget bill out there that so far was rejected. It's got another $2 trillion in borrowing. Right. So nobody's even pretending to try to live within their means. That's one thing.

Then there's the tariffs and the issue of that. So now he's saying that he doesn't have time to make all the deals that he was going to make. He's going to send some letters. Here's what he just said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have at the same time, 150 countries that want to make a deal, but you're not able to see that many countries. So, at a certain point over the next 2 to 3 weeks. I think Scott and Howard will be sending letters out, essentially telling people it would be very fair, but well be telling people what they'll be paying to do business in the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

IVES: I mean, it speaks to -- if you look at this thing about the 90 deals, 90 days, all these countries, you cannot ultimately just send letters because it speaks to like, we're going to need the actual details of these deals. India, South Korea, Vietnam, everything we've talked about, this is -- this is now the reality we've created, and that's the next step.

BURNETT: But I mean, he's saying -- he's saying, Peter, we'll be telling people that they'll -- what they'll be paying to do business in the United States. They'll be sending letters.

TUCHMAN: You know.

BURNETT: Send you a letter and say, hey, you're going to pay this. What is that?

IVES: Do those come FedEx or -- TUCHMAN: Well, question is a downgrade strictly on numbers or is it

the way that were being perceived in the rest of the world as well? Right? Because you know, the way right now, yes, there's a lot of visuals around the trip to Saudi Arabia. And then he dropped the story about China. Then we went to Saudi Arabia, and we were able to divert our attention to all these beautiful visuals.

No one else has ever been met at the plane and all this. And now this is -- you know, it's like, how are we being viewed in the world financially? Remember when China, the bond problem we had a couple of weeks ago when they almost did not step in to buy that auction.

BURNETT: Right.

TUCHMAN: And then Jamie Dimon, shot one across the bow and said, if we don't do this, that's going to spike up to five. And we may have a --

BURNETT: So, interest rates are going to go up.

TUCHMAN: Exactly.

IVES: The hourglasses in here. But well do an imaginary hourglass. Time's ticking. You need more deals. That's the key, India and others.

BURNETT: Yeah. But I will just say, peter, this this issue of deals as in, you know, letters.

TUCHMAN: Right.

BURNETT: That's -- that makes no difference than where we are, where we were on liberation day.

TUCHMAN: In order to offset all of that kind of stuff. Perception. If we have deals that are etched in stone, there's reality, right? Downgrade comes from -- as a function of whether --

IVES: You can't come in --

(CROSSTALK)

TUCHMAN: -- their belief, I believe, for what we do.

BURNETT: All right. Thank you both very much. Obviously sobering with that downgrade coming here just minutes before this program began tonight.

[19:15:02]

And OUTFRONT next, breaking news, the Secret Service just escorting former FBI Director James Comey to an interview after he posted a picture that Trump claims was a threat in his life, so within hours there at his house, taking him in for questioning.

Plus, a federal judge laying into the Trump administration for failing to bring back the Maryland father, who was mistakenly sent to El Salvador. His attorneys OUTFRONT. And the most valuable pope. Thats right. Can you believe this already? The new pope is proving to be a major surge, a boom for Chicago's sports teams, which are all now trying to say that he is their favorite fan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So where did he sit?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, here we are in section 140, row 19, seats one and two.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:20:11]

BURNETT: Breaking news, the Supreme Court ruling against Trump blocking the president from restarting deportations under the Alien Enemies Act, a sweeping authority that has only been used in wartime. Trump responding online, quote, in all caps, the Supreme Court won't allow us to get criminals out of our country, exclamation point.

The case focused specifically on a group of Venezuelan immigrants in northern Texas. They had feared deportation from the detention center. That we're going to show you now where detainees recently put out that SOS message.

OUTFRONT now, Ryan Goodman, OUTFRONT legal analyst and coeditor in chief of "Just Security".

So, Ryan, you know, how did this ruling go when you look at -- I mean, Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito, how the votes went and who voted against Trump, right? It wasn't split by what's perceived to generally be the liberal justices and the Trump appointed justices. That doesn't seem to be how this went.

RYAN GOODMAN, CO-EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, JUST SECURITY: Right. So, we don't know if it's an actual 7-2. It very well could be a 7-2 decision. There are only two justices in dissent, as you say, Justices Alito and Thomas. But we know that Justice Kavanaugh was with the majority. He actually wanted to hear the whole case on the merits as quickly as possible.

So, it does seem as though the weight is against the administration on this. And in fact, the majority does say we just don't know how many people are in that majority. We've all 9-0 already affirmed that there must be due process when they're referring back to an earlier decision.

BURNETT: But -- and that in and of itself is very significant. I mean, I know these are the moments I don't like to say who appointed whom as a judge. However, in moments like this, it's important to say that, right, to see the Supreme Court act in what appears to be concert regardless of purview, it comes to the Constitution. And in this case, that was against the Trump administration. So that's very significant on the due process issue.

Also tonight, I and I mentioned this coming into the commercial break, we had some video of the former FBI director, James Comey being taken in. That was a voluntary interview, but it was just, you know, hours after he had posted something on social media, you had Kash Patel you had all of the national security apparatus posting about it, and they brought him in for questioning.

He -- the social media post was shells on a beach that were formed into the numbers 86 47. He said that maybe in retrospect he said, you know, that he thought it could be a political statement. Of course. 47 Trump is the 47th president in this term, 86 is generally seen to refer to something being canceled, thrown out, gotten rid of.

So, Trump says this is a call for violence. Comey took it down. He said, I didn't realize some folks associate these numbers with violence. It never occurred to me, but I oppose violence of any kind. So I took the post down.

Okay, I've got a lot of questions from this. Let's just start with whether you think he'll face charges.

GOODMAN: I think he should not face charges. If he were charged, I think there would be going outside of the law to do so. So, whether he'll face charges, not in -- not in a -- on solid --

BURNETT: So, this is not -- this is not whether he will, it's whether he should.

GOODMAN: Right. And the law would basically say primarily that he has to have criminal intent, and you'd have to be able to establish beyond a reasonable doubt when it goes, if it were to go to trial that he intended to right threaten the president's life. And he can say, I did not know this 86 is used in other contexts, like just get rid of there's impeachment. Theres a way to get rid of it.

BURNETT: So perhaps. Right, okay, okay. So, in other words, he may full well of know what 86 meant, but not have seen the violence connotations. I mean, Republicans have used 86 in the past when it comes to Biden. Matt Gaetz posted, we've now 86 McCarthy, McDaniel, McConnell.

Far right Jack Poso posted 86 46 in 2022 about Biden. So, you know, there was obviously no nobody cared about that. But they're making a big deal of it this time about Comey.

Should Comey have known, though, about the optics of this?

GOODMAN: I think so. I think it's a very irresponsible decision on his part and even his post hoc explanation as to why he took the post down. He says, I thought it was a political statement. Then if you thought it was, maybe do your research before you post something. If you're not even quite sure what the -- what it's trying to convey.

And I think he should have understood what the implications could be, because we live in a political environment in which there is political violence in our country.

BURNETT: Right.

GOODMAN: Don't send such messages of get rid of the president, especially when 86 has other connotations as well.

BURNETT: Right, right. And of course, especially considering his role and his stature.

All right. Thank you very much, Ryan.

And also tonight, a federal judge openly frustrated and skeptical in court as the Trump administration tries to avoid turning over information about what its doing to, quote, unquote, facilitate. That's what the Supreme Court said they had to do when it comes to the return of Kilmar Abrego Garcia. He is the man who was mistakenly deported to El Salvador.

The judge questioning why Trump officials are out publicly saying Abrego Garcia will never return to the United States when they have been ordered to bring him back. Abrego Garcia's attorney tells the judge, quote, my head is spinning. They've told us nothing. Zero.

[19:25:00]

OUTFRONT now, Simon Sandoval-Moshenberg, Abrego Garcia's attorney.

Simon, I'm glad to see you again. So, okay, just cutting through all of this. Are you confident right now that Abrego Garcia will ever come back to the United States?

SIMON SANDOVAL-MOSHENBERG, ATTORNEY FOR FATHER MISTAKENLY DEPORTED TO EL SALVADOR: It's very difficult to say what the government is doing precisely because they haven't given us any information. Unfortunately, I do have to confess that they've been effective at stonewalling, but hopefully with today's -- with the ruling that the judge is going to issue after today's hearing, that's going to end.

They've given us nothing at all. They've given us a sum total of five sentences of information as to the steps that they've been taking to carry out the Supreme Courts order that they return Kilmar Abrego Garcia to the United States. And meanwhile, at the same time, all of the defendants in the case, Kristi Noem, Rubio, Bondi, are all going on TV every chance they get to say that they're not going to bring him back to the United States. So that's what we were in court today to make sure that the judge ordered.

BURNETT: And so, you know, they keep saying that, which I mean, certainly from a perspective of are they doing anything to facilitate, seems to answer that question. They were told by the Supreme Court to facilitate his return. Now, whatever semantical games people want to play about nuance and definition, they're clearly not doing that.

And the judge took on Trump's lawyers today and said that they weren't actually even providing depositions from people who had personal knowledge of any efforts that had been made to facilitate Abrego Garcia's return. The judge actually said, I don't know how long it took my law clerks to count up all the, quote, I don't knows in these depositions.

So, I mean, this -- is it fair to say this is a game that they're literally putting out lawyers who literally don't know any of the background conversations so that they can say they don't know and not be lying and prevent this from moving forward.

SANDOVAL-MOSHENBERG: They are playing a game. They have been playing this game since day one, but by playing this game, in this one case, they're losing the broader war. The Supreme Court today ruled 7-2 that the Venezuelans who the government is trying to deport under the Alien Enemies Act have to have a whole lot more due process. And the reason for that is that once they get deported, we can't bring them back.

I mean, the U.S. government, the judiciary usually gives the U.S. government a tremendous amount of benefit of the doubt. That's been completely squandered. And we're now only 3 or 4 months into the administration.

BURNETT: So the context for this now at DHS, I don't know if you've heard this, Simon, probably not with everything you've been dealing with.

But CNN is learning that DHS is considering a reality TV show, and in this show, immigrants would be competing for potential U.S. citizenship, so would be a reality TV bake off to get that prize, they would compete in challenges we understand, like mining gold in San Francisco, a pizza challenge here in New York to find out who is the quote, unquote, most American.

Now, DHS spokeswoman tells CNN that there is a show pitch that is being vetted, but that Kristi Noem herself has not reviewed it or backed it at this point.

You know, you sit here in your professional life and represent immigrants. You represent issues of due process. When you hear something like this, what's your reaction?

SANDOVAL-MOSHENBERG: Yeah, I mean, it's not a serious proposal. It's clearly not a serious proposal. And by making light of this situation, by acting in such a non-serious way, they're really sort of squandering any good faith they have, even with, you know, the Supreme Court, which historically gives the government so much benefit of the doubt, so much good faith.

As the judge in Maryland said today, you know, this is about good faith and bad faith, and it's hard to find good faith when all of the cabinet secretaries are going on TV saying, were not going to follow the orders of the court.

BURNETT: All right. Simon, thank you very much. I appreciate your time on this Friday night.

And next, the breaking news, Putin blowing off today's peace talks with Ukraine. So why did Trump just say that Putin still very much wants a deal?

Plus, breaking news, the audio of tapes of former President Biden speaking to special counsel Robert Hur so much talk about those, remember? Well, guess what? Now, they're out. It was just after that interview that Hur described Biden as an elderly man with a poor memory.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:33:22]

BURNETT: Breaking news, President Trump saying he believes there will soon be a deal to end the war in Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He is at the table and he wanted this meeting and I always felt there can't be a meeting without me because I don't think a deal is going to get through. Theres a lot of hatred on both sides. I have a very good relationship with Putin. I think we'll make a deal. We have to get together, and I think we'll probably schedule it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Trump also saying today he would meet with Putin, quote, as soon as possible or as soon as we can set it up.

Trump's comments after -- came after Putin did not show up to peace talks in Turkey. Putin sending a delegation led by a former minister of culture instead. Not even one of his top negotiators on this. According to Ukraine, Russia's demands, when the team actually got there, were, quote, detached from reality and that they go far beyond anything previously discussed. Things like Ukraine retreating from four of its own regions that they wouldn't get back.

Meantime, Ukraine says Russian forces are continuing to increase attacks since Wednesday, using roughly 220 drones, in addition to airstrikes and artillery shelling. All of this a case of actions speaking louder than Trump's words.

Fred Pleitgen is OUTFRONT. He is in Moscow tonight.

And, Fred, President Trump says he'll be meeting soon with Putin. What is Russia saying about that?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Erin. Well, one of the things that the Russians certainly are saying is that there is indeed good relations between Vladimir Putin and President Trump. However, as far as that meeting is concerned, it doesn't seem as though the Russians believe that it's as imminent as President Trump seems to be saying.

It was quite interesting because the Kremlin spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, he was asked about this after President Trump made similar remarks while he was still in the Middle East today. [19:35:03]

And Peskov there said that, yes, the Russians do believe that a meeting between President Trump and Russian leader Vladimir Putin is something that would be very important is something that needs to happen. But he also then went on to say what the Russians have been saying the entire time, that such a meeting needs to be well-prepared, that people from both administrations need to meet beforehand to set things up, and that also the most important questions, global questions need to be addressed by two leaders when they meet. And that's one of the reasons why the preparations have to be so deep.

Of course, one of those would be the war in Ukraine. So at this point in time, the Russians not necessarily saying that a meeting is imminent, but I think one of the things that's very important to point out is that the things that President Trump are saying, also playing very big here in Russian state media, because of course, today there were these negotiations at the same time, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, the president of Ukraine, was meeting with European leaders who then together called president Trump.

But on Russian state TV, the message was clearly that these leaders are trying to speak to president Trump, but President Trump only wants to speak to Vladimir Putin -- Erin.

BURNETT: All right, Fred. Thank you very much, reporting in Moscow tonight.

OUTFRONT now, the host of "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS", Fareed Zakaria.

And, Fareed, you just heard President Trump, he said, quote, unquote, Putin is at the table, obviously. Presumably he means metaphorically, since Putin did not show up at those talks in Turkey. But even to say such a thing, Putin is at the table metaphorically. All right. Is he right?

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, FAREED ZAKARIA GPS: Well, he's wrong, but you don't have to take my word for it. All his other officials, General Kellogg, Marco Rubio, the secretary of state, they all say he's not at the table. He has rejected every proposal that Trump has made, the peace plan, the 30-day ceasefire, all those kind of things. These are overtures the Americans have made, and Putin has rebuffed them all.

It seems like we're still going through this very long and complicated and costly education of Donald Trump, that the fundamental obstacle to peace in Ukraine is Vladimir Putin's imperial ambitions. It's not President Zelenskyy, it's not the Ukrainians, it's not the Europeans. It is that Vladimir Putin is trying to hold on to the last multinational empire in the world, and he's trying to hold on to it by keeping Ukraine forcibly, you know, enslaved to Russia. That's the problem.

BURNETT: And you look at it, you know, Ukraine has said that some of the things brought up by the people who are there in Turkey were nonstarters, you know, taking over large chunks of Ukraine. Putin recently said he could achieve his military, you know, his strategic goals for Russia militarily, right?

I mean, you know, so even if there is some sort of progress, Trump seems to think if he and Putin just have a conversation, that will be what gets it done. It is it all really just -- just a stall, right? He's got his strategic goals. Those haven't changed.

ZAKARIA: Exactly. For Putin, actually time is on his side because he's able to keep advancing. The Russians have been able to completely transform their economy into a war economy. That's all that that, you know, the Russian state does. It does have oil and natural resources, and America's support has wavered.

You know, I don't know that were providing the same level of intelligence support. And besides even that, the imagine the morale of a Ukrainian soldier when suddenly your greatest ally, the most powerful country in the world, has as its leader somebody who says it's your fault that the war began. He doesn't really want to support you. He thinks Russia deserves 20 percent of your country. You will never be a member of NATO, and there will never be American troops to protect you.

That's going to take and have an effect on Ukrainian morale. So, you know, Putin is pressing his advantage because he knows that as long as Trump is there, he has the upper hand.

BURNETT: I also want to ask you about, you know, what's happening between Trump and Bruce Springsteen, just as -- as a matter of hitting the vein of, you know, international, the international zeitgeist.

Trump posts on social media today in part, Fareed, he says, I see that highly overrated Bruce Springsteen, the boss, highly overrated, goes to a foreign country to speak badly about the president of the United States. Never liked him, never liked his music or his radical left politics. And importantly, he's not a talented guy.

You know, he goes on to talk about his physical appearance. I don't know if he called him dried up or something like that. He was responding to Springsteen, who at a concert in the UK said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN, MUSICIAN: The America I've written about that has been a beacon of hope and liberty for 250 years, is currently in the hands of a corrupt, incompetent and treasonous administration.

[19:40:00]

A majority of our elected representatives have failed to protect the American people from the abuses of an unfit president and a rogue government.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: I mean, you heard the roar of the crowd of Springsteen. I mean, obviously those are his fans. Okay. But to have such a statement made in that kind of a setting and that sort of a reply that was in the U.K., what does that say to you, Fareed?

ZAKARIA: Well, it says Trump always punches back, you know, harder, as hard as he can. He makes it completely personal. He makes it about the way you look, your skin.

And he -- you know, it's interesting. He doesn't -- he's not scared of anyone. I will give him that. You know, Bruce Springsteen is this icon because while he has left wing politics, he embodies a kind of working-class ethos in America. And that's one of the reasons people on the right and the left have tended to be very wary of attacking him.

But what you're seeing in Trump in the second administration, in so many ways, is a Trump totally unconstrained, a Trump who has absolutely no filters, right? The filters from the first administration, the Paul Ryans of the world, the Reince Priebuses of the world, the Gary Cohns, the Goldman Sachs guys, the generals, they've all gone.

What he has now are people who egg him on when he does things like this and then jump in and support him. So, you know, you're probably going to see more of this.

BURNETT: Yeah.

All right. Well, Fareed, thank you so very much. Appreciate it. Of course. "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS", as always this weekend. Thanks, Fareed.

Next breaking news, the audio tapes from former President Biden's interview with special counsel Robert Hur have just been released. What do they reveal?

Jake Tapper is OUTFRONT next.

And Pope Leo's love for sports is paying off big time for Chicago teams.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:46:10]

BURNETT: Breaking news, audio just released of then President Bidens interview with special counsel Robert Hur. The interview led her to describe Biden as, quote, elderly man with a poor memory -- words that ricochet, of course now. "Axios" just releasing the audio where Biden appears to struggle to remember when Donald Trump was elected.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Trump gets elected in November of 2017 -- 16, 2016. All right, so, I'd have 2017.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's when you left office, in January of 2017.

BIDEN: Okay. That's when Trump is sworn in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct, yeah. Correct.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BURNETT: OUTFRONT now, Jake Tapper, the author, of course, of the upcoming new book, "Original Sin: President Biden's Decline, Its Cover Up and His Disastrous Choice to Run Again".

And, Jake, I mean, your reporting obviously talk about ricocheting around the world with so much impact. You know, when we see these words before in transcripts, right? Wed seen them. But it is different to hear them, right? When you actually hear him talk.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST, THE LEAD: Yeah. It's worse. It's far worse.

I mean, the words were bad in transcript, but hearing them really just brings to light the degree to which there were times when he just could not function as you would want a president to function.

I mean, what Alex Thompson and -- my coauthor and I have discovered through interviewing more than 200 people, mostly White House and campaign insiders, Democratic insiders, almost all of the interviews after the election, when people felt freer to talk because it was all over, was that there were basically two Bidens -- Biden that could perform fine and then a nonfunctioning one, and the nonfunctioning one started showing up 2019, 2020, but then really showed up a lot more in a lot worse way, 2023, 2024.

And you hear in these tapes why it is that top aides started to sequester him off. And it is around this time fall of 2023, according to our reporting that you'll read about in the book, when the cabinet doesn't see him, they have their last cabinet meeting in 2023 until, I think, for almost a year, September 2024.

Cabinet members told us, cabinet secretaries that they couldn't see him. They were -- they were kept at bay. Democratic members of Congress, other members of the administration, other senior advisers in the White House itself were kept away from him. And now we know why.

And Robert Hur, when that report dropped in February 2024 he revealed to the world what he saw, and he was lambasted by the Democratic establishment and by many in the news media when he was just telling the world what he saw.

BURNETT: Right, right. He was. And, of course, he has. He has kept his own counsel on all of this.

All right. There's been more tapes coming out, though, now, jake. And here's another one. This is where Biden appeared to struggle with the dates about his late son, Beau, and when he died. Now, we've known this happened, but again, now we're actually hearing it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: I don't know. This is what, 2017, '18 area.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.

BIDEN: Remember in this time frame my son is, he's been deployed or is dying. And -- and so, it was -- and, by the way, there were still a lot of people at the time when I got out of the Senate that were encouraging me to run in this period.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[19:50:04]

BURNETT: Jake, of course, Beau Biden died in 2015. Obviously --

TAPPER: He deployed and he deployed to Iraq in 20 -- in 2008, 2009. So, the idea.

BURNETT: To deploy or dying. Yeah, yeah.

TAPPER: So, the idea that in the 2017, 2018 period, his son was either deployed or dying, it's just not accurate. It's sad. Honestly, it's sad. It is what we all see. We're all human. None of us are going to live forever. All of us, if we're lucky enough, are going to age.

But what you are hearing is evidence of how there were many times, increasingly in 2023, 2024, when he was nonfunctioning as you would want and need a commander in chief to function. And by the way, in the press conference President Biden gave after the report came out, he indignantly accused Robert Hur of bringing up Beau's death, and he and Robert Hur had not. President Biden did because he couldn't get a grasp on dates.

BURNETT: Yeah, yeah. And you can hear him bring it up there.

All right. Jake, thank you very much. I want everyone to know again, Jake's book, original sin. It comes out on Tuesday, so if you haven't preordered it and you don't do in the next couple of days, go out and get it on Tuesday. Obviously. Must read for all Americans.

Thanks so much to Jake.

And next, the new pope effect, a real thing for his hometown teams in Chicago, one of which just suddenly snapped a losing streak. Divine intervention?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: Tonight, Pope Leo XIV set to deliver his inaugural mass at the Vatican Sunday, the same day the Chicago Cubs are playing Chicago White Sox.

[19:55:05]

Now, both teams have benefited from the new pope. And that's not all.

Whitney Wild is OUTFRONT.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) WHITNEY WILD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): One week after being named the head of the Catholic Church, the world is meeting Pope Leo XIV through both his homilies -- and his hobbies.

Pope Leo is an avid tennis player.

Just days ago, meeting the top men's singles player in the world, Jannik Sinner at the Vatican, who gave him a racket.

ANGELO DI BERNARDINO, FORMER AUGUSTINIAN SUPERIOR AND FRIEND OF POPE LEO XIV: He loves tennis. Even now, until a few days ago, he would play tennis if he could.

WILD: And after living in both Peru and Rome, he developed a love for soccer and the Italian league club in Rome, AS Roma.

Pope Leo is a South Side Chicagoan by birth, a White Sox fan, according to his brother, who showed up in the World Series broadcast in 2005.

What do you think it means for the organization?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that this is, you know, first of all, just the fact that its like a historic global moment, but I really think its making our White Sox fans have that little boost of pride, which, quite frankly, we could use.

WILD: And where did he sit during that game?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here we are. Section 140, row 19, seat two.

WILD: So, this would have been his view at that World Series game.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not a bad view, huh?

WILD: The White Sox have retired number 14. No player will wear the pope's digits on the field.

But Stephanie and Josh Ganal are making sure 14 shines in the stands.

How many orders for Pope Leo jerseys do you have?

STEPHANIE GANAL, OWNER, GRANDSTAND: At this point, we haven't had a chance to count them all, but I definitely would say over 100 of them already.

WILD: Stephanie's parents started Grandstand in 1989 when she was just three years old. The high school sweethearts now run the family's store a few blocks from where the Sox play.

GANAL: It means a lot to us to have something fun and a good blessing. Like this on the South Side is something that we drastically need.

WILD: According to the online betting site, BetMGM, lots of folks are putting their money on Chicago teams and banking on divine intervention. MATT PREVOST, CHIEF REVENUE OFFICER, BETMGM: The Bears in Chicagoland

have been the biggest recipient of pope enthusiasm. So, we have seen the -- mostly the Chicago faithful lean in to betting on Chicago teams since the pope announcement.

WILD: After Leo was named pope, the White Sox snapped a four game losing streak taken by some Chicagoans as a sign prayers were answered.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WILD (on camera): No papal push for the White Sox tonight, though, Erin. They lost their first game of the crosstown classic to the Cubs tonight. They have two more games, though, to turn it around.

Erin, in addition to the other Chicago teams who saw a betting boost, Villanova also saw a boost. That is, of course, the pope's alma mater.

Back to you.

BURNETT: Absolutely. All right, Whitney, thank you so much.

And also tonight, President Trump on his way home from the Middle East. But as we wrap this week, we thought it was worth considering the fate of an American in Saudi Arabia, where the president began his trip with so much opulence. His name is Saad Almadi. He's 75 years old. He's been stuck inside Saudi Arabia for nearly five years, unable to return home to his family and home in Florida.

All of this because he wrote tweets that criticized the Saudi government, one for its tax policies and another suggesting that a street be named after journalist Jamal Khashoggi, who was brutally murdered and chopped up with a bone saw at the direction of the crown prince, according to the U.S. CIA.

Well, we talked to Saad son, Ibrahim, almost three years ago. Thats when his father was first sentenced to 16 years behind bars, when he had gone to visit family in Saudi Arabia. And Almadi's decision to speak out at that time made a difference. His father was released from prison.

But tonight, the Saudis still will not let him leave the country. His family is worried about him. Here's part of the conversation I just had the other day with his son.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IBRAHIM ALMADI, SON OF U.S. CITIZEN BANNED FROM LEAVING SAUDI ARABIA: What is happening to your father as this all happens? I mean, so, he gets out of prison, but he's not allowed to leave the country. I mean, what is his life like right now inside Saudi Arabia?

IBRAHIM ALMADI, SON OF U.S. CITIZEN BANNED FROM LEAVING SAUDI ARABIA: The life there is completely -- completely fear. We can't speak freely over the phone. And also, he might be arrested, rearrested again, or even assassinated. We can't actually be sure about his well-being unless he is here in the United States. Our life is completely upside down from what it was before. And it was all for tweets.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: I spoke with Almadi for his first interview since he saw President Trump and the crown prince lavishing praise on each other Tuesday, and he had this message for President Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALMADI: Mr. President Trump need to take action into this matter and all it needs is just a phone call to his favorite prince, MBS. And we'll have my father back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Almadi told us he has been speaking with House Speaker Mike Johnson. He said Speaker Johnson has made him a promise that his father will be freed. If that does not happen and the travel ban continues, Saad Almadi will not be able to return home to the United States until he's 94 years old.

Well, thank you so much for joining us on this Friday.

"AC360" with Anderson begins now.