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Erin Burnett Outfront
CEO Warns Trump's Tariffs "Extreme" As Major Car Company Raises Prices; Questions About Biden's Cancer; North Korea's Viral Mistake. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired May 19, 2025 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:28]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
The CEO of America's biggest bank with dire warnings tonight about Trump's trade war. And he's not alone as another American car company tonight says their prices are going up.
Plus, new questions about Bidens cancer diagnosis. How could it not have been detected earlier? The top prostate cancer doctor at the world's leading cancer hospital weighs in. He's here tonight OUTFRONT.
And Kim Jong Un's viral mistake. North Korea's decision to let social media influencers into the Hermit Kingdom is quickly backfiring. We're going to show you the video.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight sounding the alarm, the CEO of Americas largest bank warning of extraordinary complacency, saying that Trump's tariffs right now are extreme. So here he is, JPMorgan Chase CEO, Jamie Dimon.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
JAMIE DIMON, CEO, JPMORGAN CHASE: Even these low levels, you know, they stay where they are today, that's pretty extreme tariffs. My own view is, you know, where people feel pretty good because you haven't seen an effective tariffs. The market came down 10 percent. It's back up 10 percent. I think that's an extraordinary amount of complacency.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BURNETT: A extraordinary amount of complacency. And Diamond is really pointing out a simple fact, which is that tariffs of 30 percent on China, 10 percent on the rest of the world, on top of whatever was existing already, is massive. It is extreme.
And right now, the stock market is trading literally as if none of these tariffs exist, back to the way it traded before anything was even announced. But the reality of it is, of course, is prices are going up and some items are not being restocked. You know, within the past hour, we learned that imports into Americas largest port dropped 30 percent in the first week of May alone. And the port of Los Angeles says that the drop for all of may they expect will be a massive 25 percent. Just put that another way, maybe it hits home more strongly. That is a quarter of all imports into the largest port in America.
And for Dimon and other leaders in the American economy, the problem is even bigger.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DIMON: We have huge deficits. We have what I consider complacent, central, you know, almost complacent as central banks think they're omnipotent and you all think they can manage through all this. I don't think they manage all that.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BURNETT: And as I said, Dimon is not alone. One of his top rivals, Citigroup CEO Jane Fraser, said very simply, something deeper is going on. Billionaire investor Ray Dalio added to that warning the risk to U.S. treasuries is even greater than the warning from Moody's, which of course, on Friday night, you may remember, slashed Americas last remaining perfect credit rating.
Now, Trump tells CEOs when he meets with them, and I've heard this from several of them that he believes tariffs are going to solve Americas debt problem and enable him to cut taxes, that all this money is going to pay for that from the tariffs, even as they sit there and try to explain that tariffs are cutting demand for products because tariffs increase prices.
So, the complacency Dimon refers to is real. Or as one CEO told me today, it's a slow burn on tariffs until it isn't. Thats when everyone experiences it. And then there is something even deeper than Trump's tariffs.
So just take a look at the bond market today. The yield or the basically the interest rate as we experience on U.S. 10- and 30-year treasuries, which typically goes down in times of turmoil because when people are afraid, they buy the safest thing they think they can buy, that's U.S. debt. The more you buy, the less interest the U.S. has to pay on that debt. But right now, those interest rates are going up.
The 30-year at one point traded above five percentage points. So, 5 percent on a 30-year, the 10-year top 4.5 percent during the day. And the debt that Americans pay on mortgages, on car loans, on credit cards, all of that is pegged off of those 10- and 30 year rates. So, the rising interest rates there does trickle down to all of us.
And team Trump is now blaming Biden for Americas debt problem. And the Moody's downgrade of U.S. debt.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT BESSENT, TREASURY SECRETARY: We didn't get here in the past 100 days. It's the Biden administration and this spending that we have seen over the past four years. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Now, Scott Bessent is a really smart man, and he knows that is not true. Fiscal mismanagement and spending money that America does not have. Spending it like drunken sailors is, well, that's a bipartisan problem. But it really, if you're going to look at the four years of Biden, is much more of a Trump problem. In fact, Trump is the biggest driver of Americas spending problem.
When you look at presidential four-year terms, Trump added $8.4 trillion to the debt in his first four years. That is nearly double what Biden added, and Scott Bessent is well aware of that, 4.7 trillion for Biden. Again, drunken sailors may all be bad actors, but blaming this on Biden is wrong, and it is important to state the facts because Trump is right now trying to add more debt, pushing Republicans to pass what would add more to the national debt.
[19:05:01]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The one big, beautiful bill, as we call it.
But we're talking about the great, big, beautiful bill.
And I said, why don't we just call it the great big, beautiful bill?
Our big, beautiful bill, as I call it, our big, beautiful bill.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Well, the big -- the bill is big. As for beautiful, it could add between $3 trillion and $5 trillion to the U.S. debt, according to the estimates. So, the debt is a problem. That would be another massive increase.
And when it comes to Trump's trade war, Americans will soon feel the impact coming from every direction. So, as rates possibly go up, you now see the impact of prices and tariffs.
Just today, Subaru in America announcing its about to raise the price on several of its models, a hike that could range between $750 per vehicle to more than $2,000 per vehicle. Trump will soon be unable to strongarm or threaten companies from telling consumers why prices are going up. If you if you start having them across the board like that.
So far, he's publicly berated Walmart after the nation's largest retailer announced it would be forced to raise some prices. Trump posted on his social media website the tariffs, posting that to Walmart. And after a report that Amazon was going to show the price of an item and then break out the tariffs so that consumers could see why prices are going up and by how much, the White House responded with this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This is a hostile and political act by amazon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And then Trump got on the phone. He called Amazon founder Jeff Bezos and, well, Bezos caved. Amazon caved. For now, no longer any transparency about what Trump's tariffs are costing their customers. Maybe that's some of the reason for the complacency, the delayed reaction for consumers and the markets.
Jeff Zeleny is OUTFRONT live outside the White House, beginning our coverage tonight.
So, Jeff, the economic situation as it is, prices going up, a big drop of imports coming in, of products coming in, at the same time that there's real warning signs in the U.S. treasury market.
Does Trump accept the reality of this?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Erin, that is the central question. He certainly does not talk about the reality as much. But I think we saw a real raw sense of his view of this. Over the weekend, in his response to Walmart, eat the tariffs. We have heard all along that other countries were paying the tariffs. Now he's instructing Walmart to eat the tariffs. So that really gets to the heart of his anger here.
But look, we are learning that the president is going to Capitol Hill tomorrow morning, very early actually in the 8:00 hour to meet with House Republicans, to strong arm some of them into supporting what he is called, as you said, that big, beautiful bill. But that big, beautiful bill is not together. It is very controversial. Moderates, hardliners have not yet come together on how they will sort of solve this.
Now, we have seen time and time again this year, the White House is able to push together and strong arm enough Republicans to support the bill. But that's only half the equation. The Senate also has to support it. And they are not going to support this.
So, the reason this matters for the economy writ large is if Republicans are not able to pass this bill, extend the tax cuts, that is going to send another signal to the markets and elsewhere that they simply do not have the ability to legislate or govern. But as for lower prices, as for inflation, again, this is why the president was elected. It's the fundamental issue, and it's something he talks about very rarely, even as he's calling Vladimir Putin and others.
The economy is hanging over this White House. They know it is. But first and foremost, it's the legislation that they're trying to get. But that will not guarantee, of course, improvements in the economy -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Jeff Zeleny, thank you very much.
And OUTFRONT now, Torsten Slok, partner and chief economist at Apollo.
Torsten, I know you have been doing the analysis on this and extensive analysis of the housing market and the implications here. When Jamie Dimon warns of complacency on tariffs, he's basically saying to the market, maybe you guys haven't seen or realized what's really about to happen, but you're not looking into the future. And this is a problem, right? He's also warning of a debt crisis. And you hear Jamie Fraser from Citigroup. You hear Ray Dalio.
TORSTEN SLOK, PARTNER & CHIEF ECONOMIST, APOLLO: Yeah, I think the challenge here is that tariffs, of course, when they were implemented implies that someone needs to pay the tariff when a container arrives in Los Angeles. And that cost given the tariffs are so elevated in particular on China but also, of course, on 90 other countries is going to be paid by someone.
And the fear in the market at the moment is very little that this is coming. But I think if you do begin to quantify what are the implications, you do get some fairly significant numbers. For example, the Yale Budget Lab is quantifying that the impact on GDP as a result of this level of tariffs we have at the moment is going to drag GDP down by 0.7 percent. So, not a recession, but a slowdown in economic growth and therefore also a hit to earnings over the coming quarters.
BURNETT: And you see it regular. You can think of big ticket items that people need to buy, right? Whether -- I mean, people don't have to buy a car. Maybe you can delay that, or you could buy a used car. Prices trickle down. People need to buy car seats.
These things are big ticket items that are real. Price increases make a huge difference. The Subaru ones I said $700 to up to $2,000. And then when Trump says to Walmart, Walmart should stop trying to blame tariffs as the reason for raising prices throughout the chain.
[19:10:04]
That's Trump's post. I mean, that -- that's a ridiculous thing to say.
SLOK: Well, so one way of looking at it is that someone has to pay the bill for the container that's coming in from China or from the rest of the world. And the question here is, is it companies that are going to pass it on 100 percent to consumers? Therefore, consumer prices will go up and therefore demand meaning what companies will be selling will be going down. That would be a negative hit to earnings for corporate America.
Or it could also be corporate America could say we completely eat the tariffs ourselves and therefore we do not pass anything onto consumers. But that would certainly also be a negative hit to earnings. So, either way, no matter if companies pass on 100 percent or 50 percent or zero, someone has to pay the bill. And either it goes through earnings in companies going down directly. If they pass on nothing or if they pass on 100 percent, it will go through consumers simply buying less, buying fewer cars, buying fewer washers, dryers, durable goods and of course, in Walmart's case, buying things that they have on their shelf, which is now more expensive. BURNETT: Right, right. And the point is, even if you pass, if you were
to pass it along in full on an item, any given item, who knows what tariffs were underlying on it or whatever, let's just be simple, 30 percent increase in your suit. But it could be more than that. Or even if they are, you still paying 15 percent more.
SLOK: Well --
BURNETT: I mean, that's going to affect people's buying decisions.
SLOK: And that absolutely is why this is creating this unfortunate cocktail of not only will earnings be lower for corporate America. So that's why Jamie Dimon is right to point out that the E in the P/E ratio is going to take a hit.
But we will also see that prices are going up. So not only are earnings going down, but inflation is also going up. And that's a definition of stagflation. That is a definition where you both have GDP growth slowing meaning earnings and the economy is slowing down. And you at the same time also have prices going up on the CPI index, meaning consumer prices.
BURNETT: And so, that's the kind of the immediate thing that were staring at. And that's frightening for.
SLOK: That will come over the next several quarters for sure.
BURNETT: And so, that is frightening. And then you have the, the, the macro problem of, of too much debt and too much borrowing, which Trump thinks tariffs are going to help alleviate. But you had done some analysis, Torsten, that I just want to put up here because we were talking about why people interest rates on treasuries are going up and they're going up and up and the impacts that have.
But you were actually looking at how much U.S. treasuries are owned by foreigners, and you have a number here of 9 trillion. Okay. Out of about a total of what, 32 trillion.
SLOK: Exactly.
BURNETT: Okay. So, this is foreign ownership. So well just put foreign. Okay, I'll put it up here. Right. And then total treasuries are 32 trillion okay. All right. This 9 trillion number, about 10 percent of it is China. So, what are you seeing?
I mean, everyone's been saying -- well, what's happening in these every day in these auctions. What are you seeing. You're seeing something.
SLOK: Yeah. One way of looking at that is several things to look at. You can look at some of the auction metrics. Whenever the U.S. treasury does an auction and they sell government debt, there's a number of statistics that come out together with that. And a number of these statistics, including indirect bidding, meaning how much comes from including foreigners, also allotments when it goes to who it is exactly is the buyer. Those things have been suggesting that foreigners have less demand for
buying treasuries. But perhaps most importantly, the dollar speaks for itself because the dollar tells you that foreigners are selling U.S. assets. And that's, of course, the risk and the fear you can have, namely, that if the dollar goes down, that means that foreigners are selling U.S. assets and ultimately, therefore beginning to think about what is our holdings and what should be our right holdings of assets, not only, of course, of treasuries, but also of U.S. equities.
BURNETT: All right, Torsten, thank you very much. All of that incredibly sobering.
Dan Ives with me. Meera Pandit is with me, also, global market strategist at J.P. Morgan Asset Management.
I mean, Meera, the issue with this, of course, I mean, you've got the majority are held by Americans. So, let's just look at the glass half full. But if you have other countries either trying to retaliate or just simply looking for other options and they start finding them, then all of a sudden, the cost of Americas debt, our interest already exceeds Medicare. It already exceeds the Department of Defense budget. Things get a lot worse for America.
MEERA PANDIT, GLOBAL MARKET STRATEGIST, J.P. MORGAN ASSET MANAGEMENT : Well, what you're seeing in the treasury market is its finally responding to some of these debt and deficit dynamics, because it doesn't actually matter how much your overall debt is, but it certainly matters your ability to service that debt. So, for many years, we did more and more spending. And yet since the financial crisis, rates were very low for a very long period of time. So, people somewhat ignored the fact that we had a growing and growing deficit.
Now, when you see the Fed raises rates, all of a sudden, we spend $1 trillion a year nearly in interest payments. That essentially doubled from 2023 to 2024. It tripled from 2021 to 2024.
BURNETT: It's stunning.
PANDIT: And so what you have to be mindful of is that what we saw from this debt downgrade is while it wasn't new news necessarily, that other ratings agencies downgrade debt before, it is certainly an indictment of the fact that we have been profligate with our federal finances and need to find ways to right-size them, and it's not going to happen in one big bill, and nor is it going to happen in rapid succession.
BURNETT: No. And of course, the bill, the current bill could have added $3 trillion to $5 trillion to that debt, which is -- which is why there are some who are completely balking at it.
[19:15:00]
But, Dan, there's also the -- and I don't want to use the word too heavily, but there is the weaponization. Countries that are mad at the U.S. for what it's doing are frustrated. There is a very easy way to send a message. DAN IVES, GLOBAL HEAD OF TECHNOLOGY RESEARCH, WEDBUSH RESEARCH: Yeah.
Look, and these are things that we've seen but -- and ultimately in terms of China. And look even last week in terms of Middle East, you know, you're now seeing countries almost put in a pecking order because Middle East especially, they're ahead of China when it comes to A.I.
And you talk about weaponization. It's really A.I. now is being used from a U.S. perspective because there's only one chip in the world. It's Nvidia that's fueling it. But it speaks to what we're going into.
And we've talked about. And that was a great way to put it. We're going into this sort of very tight rope time where you're going to need to balance from the tax to the deals.
BURNETT: So, Meera, we're looking at port of L.A. saying 30 percent drop in shipments in the first week of May. They expect 25 percent for the whole month, which is significant because that is allowing for tariffs going from 145 percent to 30, right? So you're still seeing a huge drop and you're seeing Walmart. You're seeing Subaru.
Prices are going up. Prices are going. It is what it is. They are going to go up and they're -- I think maybe what's so scary is what Jamie Dimon said is true. There is a complacency in the market. The market is trading as if there's no tariffs at all.
PANDIT: We basically went from about 2.3 percent on average in terms of a tariff rate last year on imported goods to about 25 percent after some of the April 2nd announcements. And now that we're down to about 13.3 percent, people feel very calm because all of a sudden tariffs have come down so much.
But the reality is that is a huge increase from last year, and that's going to have real implications. Torsten highlighted a number of them. It means someone's going to need to eat that cost.
IVES: Someone pays it.
PANDIT: Someone pays it.
IVES: And no one -- and no one's eating it, right? I mean, how many do you think are actually going to eat those costs, like Trump's asking Walmart and others.
PANDIT: And consumers are exhausted from paying higher prices over time. So that is something that's already weighing on the consumer. But I do want to perhaps put a dose of optimism into things and just remind people that while it feels like its sell America, lets get rid of America. End of American exceptionalism.
We do have to think about the starting point we came from, which is we had four years, essentially, of above trend growth. We have an unemployment rate near 4 percent for around three years. Generationally, that's pretty low. We had 10 percent profit growth. The dollar has been high for years. We had two back to back years of 20 plus percent returns in the market. So I do think it's important to point out that that starting point was
exceptional. And we do need to see some sort of normalization.
(CROSSTALK)
IVES: And also, it comes down to the deals like what are the deals -- and we've talked about for weeks. What are the deals going to look like with India, with Vietnam, with South Korea, when you start to get the details of these deals, that's why this is a key coming weeks ahead in terms of getting those deals inked for Trump.
BURNETT: And a quick final question to you. When do we start seeing price increases for some of the big tech items that people want to buy, whether that's TVs or whether that is phones, iPads, things like that, and Apple that you --
IVES: I mean, I think you start to get past Memorial Day. You start to see these increases from an electronics perspective. And look, we've talked about with Apple, I mean, they're trying to pivot in terms of India in a very smart way. But these are -- these are price points that are hitting across the supply chain. You cannot ultimately deny prices are coming higher.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you all very much.
And next, breaking news. Trump just moments ago talking about a red line with Putin. So what is it? As Putin appears to call the shots in the high stakes negotiations going on right now, Trump says he trusts him. The former Russian world chess champion who fled Russia, Garry Kasparov, is OUTFRONT next.
And President Trump, weighing in on former President Biden's cancer diagnosis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm surprised that it wasn't, you know, the public wasn't notified a long time ago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: The head of prostate cancer treatment from the world's leading cancer hospital, Memorial Sloan Kettering, is here with the facts.
And new images of that scene out of a horror movie. The Mexican navy ship slamming into the iconic Brooklyn Bridge as investigators find a major clue about what might have caused the crash.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:23:34]
BURNETT: Breaking news, President Trump just moments ago making his most extensive comments yet after his two-hour phone call with Russian president Vladimir Putin about a potential cease fire with Ukraine. For the first time, Trump talked about a red line with Putin, but he was not specific about what it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Do you have a red line in your head of what would cause you to back away and --
TRUMP: Get in my head, but not something I'm going to announce. But yeah, definitely in my head I do. I would say I do have a certain line, but I don't want to say what that line is because I think it makes the negotiation even more difficult.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: It comes as Putin is making it clear tonight that he is not budging, refusing to make any concessions. In fact, Putin is not hiding his real intentions. He said this about any steps towards peace.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Russia's position is clear. The main thing for us is to eliminate the root causes of this crisis.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: To eliminate the root causes of the crisis.
Well, Trump, though, after the call, has been publicly optimistic. Let me just play this exchange.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Do you think Vladimir Putin wants peace?
TRUMP: I do.
REPORTER: Do you still trust Putin?
TRUMP: I do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So do you think Vladimir Putin wants peace? I do. Do you trust Putin? I do.
On Truth Social, Trump posting Russia and Ukraine will immediately start negotiations toward a ceasefire and more importantly, an end to the war.
[19:25:00]
But, you know, right now, it is not Trump who is calling the negotiating shots. Keep in mind, this is the same Russian president who has bombed Ukraine more than 2,500 times, okay? More than 2,500 times since Trump went on social media demanding Vladimir stop. This is the institute for the study of war. So, Trump posted that,
"Vladimir, stop," after Putin on April 24th, and one of his most deadly attacks had that massive wave of missiles and drones against Kyiv.
Since then, 2,500 more of those. Those are the actions that speak much more loudly than any words.
And joining me now is Garry Kasparov, Russian chess grandmaster, former world chess champion. He fled Russia in 2013 due to political persecution from Vladimir Putin, and he is now founder of the Renewed Democracy Initiative and author behind the new Substack, "The Next Move". I guess an appropriate nod to your past.
Garry, when you hear Putin say, the main thing for us is to eliminate the root causes of this crisis, and Trump hears he wants to end the war. Is Trump hearing what he's saying?
GARRY KASPAROV, RUSSIAN DISSIDENT, CHESS GRANDMASTER: I don't know what Trump is hearing. I can tell you what Putin means, and I'm simply translating from Russian to English. The root cause of this war is the very existence of Ukrainian statehood, period. The Putin goal was, is, or will be, according to Putin, it's not my speculation, simply following what Putin has been saying over years.
Russian propaganda keeps repeating 24/7, to destroy Ukrainian statehood. Ukraine doesn't belong to the map. The Ukrainian people must be assimilated into the Russians. That's the policy.
When Putin says root cause of the war, you know, he means --
BURNETT: Existence of Ukraine.
KASPAROV: Exactly. Thats the -- it's -- yeah, it could take, you know, a few stages, but Putin has no intention to end this war. Putin is war. The entire Russian economy, Russian politics, Russian society, everything from the top of the government to the -- to the very bottom to the kindergarten. It's all war-related.
So, the war became a part of daily life of ordinary Russians. And Putin can't stop it because this is the engine of his dictatorship. And as for Trump's conversation with Putin, I think one of the Russian commentators just put it very bluntly. You know, from Putin's perspective, it was a very useful conversation. It was a very useful idiot.
Okay. Whether Trump doesn't understand it, I don't know. But I think we have to simply no refer to Trump's very odd behavior. Just look at Trump's quote/unquote, negotiations with Canada, with China, with Europe, with whoever he is. It's like a like a tiger, he attacks and if something doesn't go his way, he doubles down.
He always, you know, coming with a big stick first. So, China doesn't like this tariffs, I go higher, 80 percent, 145 percent. So that's that idea. And that's, by the way, being celebrated by MAGA. Just, you know, the all the Trumpists. You know, they say this is the way Trump works.
Yeah. Can you explain me why this great strategy has not been applied to Putin? Because with Putin he looks like a beaten dog. It's just -- it's where is Trump roaring, roaring lion or tiger? No, no, no. He's just -- he's always you know backs off.
So, the original claim was you know, you must stop the bloodbath, ceasefire and then negotiate now. Oh, you have to negotiate the ceasefire. Did you hear that?
Putin is laughing at him. He didn't even just come back to Moscow. He spoke to him from a music school in the obscure place in the south of Russia.
BURNETT: Do you think that matters to where he took the call from?
KASPAROV: He shows disdain. Putin enjoys it. I mean, you can see the body language. You and also dictator has to show his strength. He's playing to the --
BURNETT: He's talking to him from a music school somewhere.
KASPAROV: But it's also a message to Russians and to many others. You know, just it's other dictators in the world. Trump is nobody. I mean, look, you know, I can play the American president as a broken guitar.
BURNETT: So when Trump says and he's asked, does he trust Putin? And whether he does or doesn't, he answers, I do. Does that -- what does -- what does Putin hear by that?
KASPAROV: Which doesn't have to hear anything. Putin knows that Trump has been doing nothing. And this is an American position as presented by J.D. Vance, is that if Putin doesn't want to negotiate, we'll do exactly what he what he wants us to do. America is walking away. So, we have another problem. You know, European impotence is impotence. European Union as an organization.
But the fact is that that president of the United States is openly taking sides of, of a brutal dictator that has been carrying genocidal war against its neighbor. And today, Putin is the main threat to the global stability that should tell us more about Donald Trump.
And, by the way, his conversation two hours, 15 minutes. I mean, the old nonsense about ceasefire that just went nowhere could take 15 minutes, 20 minutes, 30 minutes, 45 minutes.
[19:30:05]
What about the rest 90 minutes? And knowing Trump and, by the way, he talked about trade, I think, you know, they talked about something else which interests Trump. Trump more of anything else. So, he cares about two things, vanity and greed. So, I think Putin knows how to handle it.
BURNETT: So, what you're saying is that the time and the call that you think there's unaccounted for time that could have gone to something else that Trump would want.
KASPAROV: Something else is this is this what's what Trump cared for? You know, that's why it's -- look, if you -- if you just look at Trump's, you know, Trump's behavior and also his, you know, the first two -- first visits at Trump's the president, both times he visited Saudi Arabia. Just look at other presidents starting with JFK, six times Canada, two times, United Kingdom, Belgium even once Finland. You know, Bill Clinton went there.
Saudi Arabia, why did you go Saudi Arabia first? And again, Trump, you know, believes that, you know, he just he can use his immense power to make him rich. So, he's not even hiding this intention. And Vladimir Putin is laughing. And of course, he's willing to make Trump happy.
And by the way, it's very important who is negotiating on Russian, on Russian side? Okay. What's the peace or whatever it is? It's not Russian foreign minister, its Kirill Dmitriev.
BURNETT: Kirill Dmitriev.
KASPAROV: Well known as Putin's wallet.
BURNETT: Yeah.
KASPAROV: They talk money, not peace.
BURNETT: All right, Gary, thank you very much for all of that insight.
And next, a top oncologist who had previously worked for President Biden says Biden may have had cancer while he was in the White House. As more questions are swirling about the former president's health.
Plus, breaking news this hour, and a major new clue tonight in determining why that Mexican navy ship slammed into the Brooklyn Bridge.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:36:23]
BURNETT: Breaking news, President Trump speaking out about former President Biden's prostate cancer diagnosis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It's very sad, actually. I'm surprised that it wasn't, you know, the public wasn't notified a long time ago because to get to stage nine, that's a long time. I think somebody's going to have to speak to his doctor if it's the same, or even if it's two separate doctors. Why wasn't the cognitive ability -- why wasn't that discussed?
And I think the doctor said he's just fine. And it's turned out that's not so. It's very dangerous.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BURNETT: This came as even a doctor who advised Biden during COVID is raising questions today about how long Biden has had cancer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. EZEKIEL EMANUEL, VICE PROVOST FOR GLOBAL INITIATIVE, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA: It has been growing for years. It didn't just pop up in the last few days or the last few weeks, or the last 200 days.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OUTFRONT now, Dr. Michael Morris, he is the head of prostate cancer treatment and research at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center, of course, known to all as one of the world's top cancer hospitals.
So, Dr. Morris, I just want to try to understand this because obviously the story has taken a life of its own. But President Trump is saying why -- he's actually saying, why did they not tell us as if they already knew. But there -- there, you know, you heard doctor there saying that the cancer would have been there a long time. Theres all these things that are out there.
But in terms, I guess let's just start with the screening, because people are assuming he would have been screened regularly. And it makes sense then, that they would have known this was there, because now it's at stage nine. And so, then, there might have been a cover up or something. But you say it's not that simple.
DR. MICHAEL MORRIS, MEMORIAL SLOAN KETTERING ONCOLOGIST; SPECIALIZES IN PROSTATE CANCER: It isn't. And first, thanks so much for having me on. I think it's a really important for everyone to understand a lot more about prostate cancer before we go along this road too far. So screening is appropriate for most men. The frequency of screening and when to start screening, that's all going to be a shared decision between physician or a provider and the patient.
But generally speaking, we don't continue screening at infinitum in prostate cancer for the general population. A general risk screening recommendations are right now that screening essentially ends at the age of 70. So, it shouldn't --
BURNETT: Obviously --
MORRIS: He's obviously well over.
BURNETT: Yes. So, he would not have been regularly screened. And even with his son having had brain cancer, would that put him in a different category where likely to be screened or no?
MORRIS: No, really not a relationship between those two. There certainly are family risks and also prostate cancer specific risks. Let's say you have an elevated PSA while you are being screened. Those are circumstances where you might screen for a longer period of time, but those are special circumstances in general. For most men, it will end at 70. BURNETT: So when you know, oncologist, Zeke Emanuel, who advised Biden
during covid, he raised the point. You know, he just said he does believe that he likely had cancer while he was in the White House, because I don't know if he was necessarily making the link, but Trump made the link the way that most of us might see it, which is, gosh, if you're already at stage nine, this didn't happen in the past few days, you know? But again, you say this really -- this could have developed really quickly?
MORRIS: So, let's just walk one step back first. There is no stage nine. He has a Gleason nine prostate cancer, but there are only four stages. And he has metastatic disease, which is stage four. But the Gleason score is a scoring system which allows us to know how aggressive the disease is.
[19:40:02]
And it's a ten-point score.
BURNETT: So, it's very aggressive.
MORRIS: It's an aggressive cancer. But the second thing to remember is that we -- you know, prostate cancer is a very diverse disease. Most men who are diagnosed with prostate cancer, it won't be that aggressive disease. And for most men, prostate cancer is indeed part of the aging process.
There are many men walking around with prostate cancer fully functional, just going about their business. They may not even know that they have a diagnosis, or they may have prostate cancer. That's not life-threatening.
BURNETT: So, is it possible that he could have something with this Gleason score as he is now and not have had cancer while he was president?
MORRIS: It's well possible. We just don't know how long any individuals cancer took to turn into cancer. You know, there's no way for us to really look back at that.
BURNETT: So then, you know, cartoonist Scott Adams, he is the Dilbert comic strip man. He also announced today he has prostate cancer spread to his bones like Bidens. He says he likely only has weeks or months left to live. And I think that and that's obviously very tragic for him to be facing that.
But for many people looking at this, obviously the context of all the talk about Biden's mental acuity is, is front and center, but also the reality that he could be president of the United States right now, a few months into a term, looking at a death sentence in a few months. And that's very unsettling to people.
Is that the case? Is that what this outlook would look like for him?
MORRIS: Not for most men who have newly diagnosed metastatic disease.
BURNETT: Even at Gleason nine?
MORRIS: Without a doubt, these are scary words and scary concepts. Having a high grade prostate cancer, the word metastatic puts a certain amount of fear into everyone's heart.
But prostate cancer is one of the most treatable cancers that there is. Hormonal therapy, which is the initial therapy for most prostate cancers, is 90 percent effective in patients and.
BURNETT: Even within the bones, gleason nine.
MORRIS: Absolutely, yeah, and the duration of response just of the first line therapy can last years. So, this is not, for most men, a death sentence. This is something that one can live with, be effectively treated, and have a pretty complete life with.
I'm not saying that duration is the same for all men and but in terms of treatability, this is not an immediate threat.
BURNETT: Well, I think this is really important. And the context and what you're putting on it, just giving this, you know, additional way of looking at it is very important. And Dr. Morris, so much appreciate your time tonight.
MORRIS: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, we have breaking news. A source revealing to CNN what exactly was happening on that Mexican navy ship seconds before that deadly collision with the Brooklyn Bridge.
Plus, North Korea -- you may remember when it welcomed social media stars from the West. Our Will Ripley has been doing incredible reporting on this, but then quickly losing control over what influencers filmed and even were asking about Kim Jong Un.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He has a daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think so.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And she will be the next leader. Maybe?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not sure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:47:42]
BURNETT: Breaking news, CNN confirming now that the propeller of the Mexican navy ship was going in reverse at the time of the deadly Brooklyn Bridge crash. It comes as investigators tonight are looking at why the ship, which had more than about 300 people on board, was accelerating when it hit the Brooklyn Bridge. And what looked like a scene from a horror movie.
Gloria Pazmino is OUTFRONT tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the start of a long process.
GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tonight, a major clue in the process of determining why the Mexican navy ship, the Cuauhtemoc, went the wrong direction and slammed into the bottom of the Brooklyn Bridge.
The ship's propeller was going in reverse, according to a source with knowledge of the investigation. In video appears to show the ship had electricity, but the captain reported a mechanical failure that left the rudder inoperable, making it impossible to steer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are working with our counterparts in the Mexican government to gain access to the ship, and hopefully with some of the crew members to be able to interview them.
PAZMINO: The 300-foot-long vessel, with the assistance of a tugboat, set out from Pier 17 around 8:20 Saturday and should have been heading down the east river, away from the Brooklyn Bridge and out to sea. As it pulled away from the dock, video shows dozens of crew members manning the yards, a naval tradition in which sailors stand atop the mass of a tall ship as it leaves the harbor.
But then, in a matter of mere minutes, the ships course changes drastically.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And at 8:24 and 45 seconds, the vessel's mast struck the underside of the Brooklyn Bridge.
PAZMINO: The impact sent some of the sailors flying from the mast. Some left dangling from harnesses and holding on to ripped sails. The collision left two crew members dead, a cadet and a sailor killed after sustaining blunt force trauma after falling from the mast.
More than a dozen crew members were injured. Two remain in the hospital.
NTSB investigators are working with the Mexican government to get access to the ship.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Once getting aboard, the vessel will make a full assessment of any recording devices.
PAZMINO: Investigators are also looking at the rate of acceleration and the role of the tugboat, which was directing the Cuauhtemoc out of the harbor that night.
[19:50:04]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do have a bit of time where it was maintaining a constant speed of about two, 2.3 knots, and then the speed began to increase. Part of our investigation will be to look into the tugboats policies and procedures for the operation, helping the vessel get off the pier.
PAZMINO: Today, the ship sat with its mangled sails and broken masts at Pier 36, downtown Manhattan, where people have started building a memorial. 94 members of the crew remain on the ship to help ensure it can be safely moved to a salvage yard.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: Gloria, it's just incredible to watch that. Do you have any idea of when investigators will be able to talk to, to interview the crew?
PAZMINO: Yeah, Erin, that's going to be a key part of this investigation. And we learned from officials today that there's been actually a delay in the NTSB officials being able to get aboard the Cuauhtemoc. They're waiting for the Mexican government to officially give them the green light to do so. We are expecting that to happen in the next day or so because speaking with those crew members is going to be critical for them to try and figure out exactly what went on here.
Ninety-four members of the crew remain on board. We have been watching them throughout the day. We can see that they are on the ship working on that broken mast. Behind me, there's been a memorial that's been building. The Mexican community here in New York city has been coming out to pay their respects. This is a traumatic event, not only for the crew of that ship, but for the community here as well, which has been bringing flowers, lighting candles and coming here to the spot to pay their respects -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right, Gloria, thank you very much.
And next, the social media stars flipping the script on an in North Korea. Some going rogue after being invited for a special visit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can we not mingle? Can we not mingle?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:56:42]
BURNETT: Tonight, North Korea shutting down, refusing to issue new visas. Now, this came just weeks after Kim Jong Un had let foreign social media influencers inside the country. That move ended up backfiring on Kim Jong Un. He got a rude awakening because some of the influencers started asking people questions about the country, instead of just showering him with praise.
Will Ripley is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIUN VIDEOTAPE)
HARRY JAGGARD, YOUTUBER: The Koreans are smiling and waving. Heading to work.
WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): British YouTuber Harry Jaggard had never run a marathon, but when North Korea announced a handful of foreign spots for the Pyongyang marathon --
JAGGARD: This is where all the military parades are.
RIPLEY: Harry hit the ground running.
JAGGARD: These are not paid actors. These are real people.
RIPLEY: Joining the first group of Westerners since COVID to visit North Korea's capital.
JAGGARD: Ten percent of the trip were athletes, runners, and then 90 percent were like content creators.
RIPLEY: Do you think the North Koreans knew that most of the people in your group were content creators like you?
JAGGARD: The tour guides definitely weren't expecting it. They said that the tour guides, they said that they'd never seen this many cameras, like pointing at them.
Can we not mingle? Can we not mingle?
They're going to bring one actor.
RIPLEY: North Korea tries to carefully control every aspect of foreign tours.
JAGGARD: One of the rules they told us was just like, you got to ask your tour guide to film. If they tell you not to film, just don't film. And people were like filming in places they shouldn't be filmed like --
RIPLEY: They could not control questions like this.
JAGGARD: But do you feel like you know him? Kim Jong Un?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
JAGGARD: He has a daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Uh-huh, I think so.
JAGGARD: And she will be the next leader? Maybe?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not sure.
JAGGARD: Oh, okay. Okay.
RIPLEY: Soon after the marathon, North Korea hit the brakes, abruptly canceling foreign visas for its international trade fair in Pyongyang.
You guys already had flight tickets, hotels booked.
JUSTIN MARTELL, TOUR OPERATOR: We had our visas issued and then abruptly canceled. That wasn't just us. That was actually over 200 Chinese and also Russian visitors as well.
RIPLEY: Did they say why?
MARTELL: They just said that it was in the national interest.
RIPLEY: Tour operator Justin Martell was supposed to lead a 20 person business delegation. He also led tours to Rason, North Korea's special economic zone, earlier this year. Social media influencers quickly snatched up those spots.
MARTELL: Controversy creates clicks, that creates cash. The more sensational your video is, the more views you're going to get, the more followers you're going to get.
RIPLEY: That reopening lasted less than three weeks. All trips suddenly canceled without warning or official explanation.
MARTELL: There are some people in Pyongyang or higher up in the North Korean government who looked at the footage that came out from those YouTubers and thought that it didn't reflect positively.
JAGGARD: These are the different haircuts we can get.
RIPLEY: The closures mean for now, none of this.
JAGGARD: Haircut like Kim Jong Un, Kim Jong Un haircut.
RIPLEY: And more of this. North Korea's carefully controlled state propaganda, a way to project power and military prowess without having to worry about anyone going off script.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
RIPLEY (on camera): North Korea doesn't have social media like we do, of course, and they've been closed off from the rest of the world for the last five years. So they've really kind of been unaware of the sea change when it comes to the media and influencers and how many followers they have. So, it seems as if the authorities have really been caught off guard, taken by surprise when these tourist trips, which only have a couple of minors, you know, when we as journalists would go and we'd have like 5 or 6 minders just focusing on us.
Now, you have all these people with cameras producing content and just a couple of people to have a couple of minors, you know, when we as journalists would go and wed have like 5 or 6 minders just focusing on us now you have all these people with cameras producing content and just a couple of people to try to keep them harnessed together. You can see the mayhem and how they kind of shutting things down.
BURNETT: Yeah, incredible though, that it even happened. It truly is. All right. Will Ripley, thank you so much as always.
And thanks to all of you. See you tomorrow.
Anderson starts now.
