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Erin Burnett Outfront
Trump Blindsided By Losses, Republicans Scramble On Messaging; Dimon On Big City Bet, Democratic Socialist As NYC Mayor; Mamdani Win Triggers Talk Of Mass Exodus From New York. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired November 05, 2025 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:26]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
The breaking news, blindsided. New reporting that White House officials were caught off guard by the sweeping Democratic victories across the country. And tonight, a Republican split over who's to blame and why.
Plus, an OUTFRONT exclusive tonight, I speak to the CEO of America's biggest bank, Jamie Dimon, who talks about his relationship with the Democratic socialist mayor of New York and whether he thinks the United States is already in a recession.
Also, how he personally uses A.I. And the tale of two cities. Many New Yorkers tonight are rejoicing over a history making new mayor, but others are looking to pack their bags.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
(MUSIC)
BURNETT: And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news, blindsided. Our Kristen Holmes tonight with new reporting that some White House officials were caught off guard by just how badly Republicans lost to Democrats across the board, a sentiment that we actually even heard a little bit from Trump himself on Fox News just a bit ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These are three pretty Democrat states, assuming everything is fair and balanced, as you would say. I thought that New Jersey would do better.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: He says he thought New Jersey would do better. I mean, in New Jersey, it was a trouncing. Mikie Sherrill, the Democrat, trounced her Republican opponent by double digits, in a race that was supposed to be razor thin. I mean, it was far from that.
And Trump is casting blame, and he is casting blame on his own party. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It's no good if we do a great job and you don't talk about it. And I don't think they talk about it enough. You know, they have this new word called affordability and they don't talk about it enough. The Democrats did, and the Democrats make it up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Interesting, Trump how he picks up on things, right? He likes that word affordability. He thinks it sells.
But the House speaker today with a very different view, downplaying the resounding Democratic victories, saying there's absolutely nothing to see here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I don't think the loss last night was any reflection about Republicans at all. What happened last night was blue states and blue cities voted blue. We all saw that coming.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Again, a lot of people did not see that coming, especially in New Jersey, that they thought would be really close.
So, when Johnson said that that was followed by a sharp rebuke from Trump's former chief strategist, Steve Bbannon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE BANNON, FORMER TRUMP CHIEF STRATEGIST: You can't take this passively. The excuse to say, well, these are blue states. Now, that's not going to hack it. Of course, New Jersey was -- is a blue state, but it was trending our way. And we got smoked.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: That was really the key point, a blue state that was trending their way. That was scathing.
And "The Wall Street Journal" editorial was also scathing. The headline there, Democrats start their comeback, a warning for the GOP from New Jersey and Virginia on affordability and Trump's unpopularity.
Well, "The Wall Street Journal" goes on to write, the era of MAGA triumphalism should be over. And if that weren't a bad enough day already for Trump, the centerpiece of his economic agenda is now in jeopardy, something that he actually has called life or death. What's happening in the Supreme Court? So, what happened today was the justices heard the case that Trump says is life or death.
The core question is whether Trump has the ability, the authority to impose his sweeping tariffs and conduct that trade war.
The justices, even once he nominated, did not appear pleased based on their questions for the Trump administration. Some of the headlines coming out of the hearing were like this. Justices sharply questioned Trump tariffs in Supreme Court hearing. Supreme Court sounds skeptical of Trump's wide-ranging tariffs.
And Chief Justice John Roberts went so far as to reject Trump's core argument that his tariffs are not taxes.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
JOHN ROBERTS, U.S. SUPREME COURT CHIEF JUSTICE: Yes, of course, tariffs in dealings with foreign powers. But the vehicle is imposition of taxes on Americans.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BURNETT: I mean, that's a pretty incredible thing to say. As I said, that is the core of the argument. Roberts calling Trump's tariffs, taxes -- taxes on Americans. That is a devastating blow to Trump's repeated claims that that's -- it's anything but, and that Americans would not be paying for his trade war.
All of this coming as Trump has been taking it out on his new favorite foil, the New York City Mayor-elect Zohran Mamdani, who is, of course, a Democratic socialist.
[19:05:05]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Just look at the result of yesterday's election in New York, where their party installed a communist as the mayor of the largest city in the nation.
MAYOR-ELECT ZOHRAN MAMDANI (D), NEW YORK CITY: I will not mince my words when it comes to President Trump. I will continue to describe his actions as they are, and I will also always do so by leaving -- while leaving a door open to have that conversation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Another person that today, when asked Mamdani said he will work with, is the CEO of the largest bank in America who just built, by the way, a $3 billion skyscraper in Manhattan and has 24,000 people working in the city.
Well, I spoke with Jamie Dimon exclusively about Mamdani and much more in a wide ranging conversation, but here's what he said about his outreach specifically to Mamdani.
(BEGIN VDIEO CLIP)
JAMIE DIMON, CEO, JPMORGAN CHASE: I left a message today.
BURNETT: You left a message today?
DIMON: Yeah.
BURNETT: Okay. So obviously, you're willing to meet with him anytime.
DIMON: If I -- I will. And if I find it productive, I'll continue to do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: If he finds it productive, he'll continue to do it. You're going to see our full conversation in just a moment.
But first, a lot to get to the day after such a decisive election for Democrats.
Let's begin with Kristen Holmes OUTFRONT live outside the White House, because, Kristen, you've got this exclusive new reporting where you're saying people inside the White House, right, whose job it would be to know polls, what's happening, what they're looking for in an election night were blindsided by how bad last night was for Trump. What else have you learned?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Erin, we're talking about the margins here. I mean, look, when you're talking to these White House advisers, these political advisers, they knew that it wasn't going to be some kind of sweeping win for Republicans just based on the candidates, the races where they were located. But then when they actually looked through the data, there were some White House officials who were surprised at just how bad it was.
When you heard from President Trump there, he wasn't the only one that was particularly surprised about New Jersey. One thing you have to remember is in 2024, President Trump continued to say that he actually thought that he could turn New Jersey red. Now, of course, he didn't end up doing that, but the margins were smaller than they had been in the past.
And as you noted, the Democrats there won in a trouncing. So what you're seeing now is these White House officials, as well as political advisers, really do a postmortem on what happened last night on these individual races. Where did it possibly go wrong? Is this about President Trump? Is this about certain policies?
And one of the things I have heard over and over again is, again, what President Trump is saying. This idea that it's all about talking about affordability. Now, that's not that surprising, given the fact that any one of his political advisers would have told you last year that they believe they were going to win, at the end of the day, on the economy.
So, this idea that others are now winning on the economy shouldn't be surprising. But here's where there is a real twist. How are they going to try and sell the economy? It was much different for them last time, and Democrats, they had the task of actually trying to message on the economy when Americans were feeling pinched in their pennies.
Now the tables are reversed. So how that messaging is actually going to go? Unclear. But one White House adviser told me to expect Donald Trump to double down on this message of affordability. We'll see what it sounds like.
BURNETT: Yeah, we'll absolutely see. But he sees the importance and the power of that word. I mean, it has deep resonance on the left and the right across this country.
Kristen, thank you so much.
And I want to go now to Lulu Garcia-Navarro, of course, at "The New York Times", former Republican Governor Tim Pawlenty, and Anderson Clayton, familiar face to many viewers of this show. She's chair of the North Carolina Democratic Party.
So, appreciate all of you.
And here we are, Lulu, with Kristen's new reporting, right, that some White House officials had no idea how bad last night would be for them. Now, look, polls had show New Jersey was going to be really close, and now is sort of the opposite of what we saw in some of the Trump victorious elections. Right? There were things the polls didn't pick up, but they went in the other direction this time.
How worried should Trump be?
LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Very. Very worried indeed. There was this big question after the last election in 2024. Republicans were talking about this new coalition that Trump had managed to build. They were dominant with the working-class Latinos. Black men moved over, young people moved over.
And that was touted as this sort of new group of people that Republicans could count on. Perhaps in the following elections. And what we saw in New Jersey and Virginia is that those gains did not hold. Latinos absolutely moved away from the Republican Party. Young people moved away from the Republican Party. Women moved away from the Republican Party.
And at the end of the day, the issue, which is not a new word, affordability. I mean, I want to tell the president, not a new word. Affordability has been the main issue for Americans now for quite some time, and they keep on seeking an answer from another party. And this is going to be the issue going into the next election, too.
[19:10:02]
BURNETT: It's so interesting, as you point out, right? The issue isn't new at all, but somehow it becoming a, you know, a singular word, right? That's something that Mamdani tapped into.
Anderson, you heard President Trump blame his own party for losing last night, saying they didn't do a good job with messaging, right? Specifically on that issue of affordability, right? That putting a word to it, putting one word to the feeling that he had tapped into. But the word -- what do you say to him?
ANDERSON CLAYTON, CHAIR OF THE NC DEMOCRATIC PARTY: I mean, I don't know how anybody right now talks about affordability when you're on a government shutdown that's costing people their livelihoods and especially working people across North Carolina right now, we have over 80,000 people in the state that are furloughed and working without pay. And how do you talk to those voters in an authentic way about affordability when you're costing them their livelihood and also at the same time, choosing to say we're doing that because we want to raise your health insurance rates next year by five times what you're currently paying for them already.
BURNETT: So, Governor, you know, on this split and I alluded to a little bit of it, we played some of it there in the introduction to the program.
But the split among Republicans on, you know, whether it matters or not, right. Vice President Vance saying, you know, quoting him, just a part of it. I think it's idiotic to overreact to a couple of elections in blue states. Right. And here again, is House Speaker Mike Johnson, who echoed that, followed by the person who basically just gave them the -- I'm looking for the euphemistic word, slapped on both sides of their face.
Steve Bannon sees things very differently.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: I don't think the loss last night was any reflection about Republicans at all. What happened last night was blue states and blue cities voted blue. We all saw that coming.
BANNON : You can't take this passively. The excuse to say, well, these are blue states, no, that's not going to hack it. Of course, New Jersey was -- is a blue state, but it was trending our way. And we got smoked.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So how do you see it, Governor? I mean, Bannon just came out there and called it like he sees it. J.D. Vance saying, oh, its idiotic to read anything into this at all.
TIM PAWLENY (R), FORMER MINNESOTA GOVERNOR: I think both of those things are true, Erin. First of all, they are mostly blue places and you can expect blue results. But you can also look at trends and changes relative to Trump's performance, and you can also look to how New Jersey performed in the past.
And so, Steve Bannon's point is well-taken in that regard and CNN's exit polling demonstrates that one of the most important factors in all of this was indeed the economy and the points that were just made on affordability are really important.
And so, what Republicans should hear are two things. One, the economy is always the major or a major issue, and people have started to feel less positive about that. And that showed up in the results. Two though, you can write -- can't just write this off all as just blue places because there's one exception to it and that's Virginia. Virginia is kind of a purplish place. And one other thing that was going on there besides a bunch of federal workers being laid off and being mad and living there and voting is candidate quality.
And the candidate quality on the Republican side in Virginia, frankly, just wasn't very good. And I think we should learn that lesson as well.
BURNETT: So, Anderson, there was also today, in the context of the shutdown, the governor just brought up a very heated confrontation between Democratic Congresswoman Chrissy Houlahan and Speaker Johnson. It was about the government shutdown. There was a Republican press conference. And then this happened.
Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: What's the question?
REP. CHRISSY HOULAHAN (D-PA): I'm asking you a question if you're ready to have a conversation with the other side.
You represent all of us. You are the speaker for all of us, sir.
JOHNSON: I can't hear you because you have --
HOULAHAN: You have an obligation not just to speak lies to the American people.
JOHNSON: I love to talk with you. Come to my office, okay?
HOULAHAN: You have an obligation to call the leadership of both parties and bring us together --
JOHNSON: Yeah.
HOULAHAN: -- and solve this problem together, Mr. Speaker.
JOHNSON: Yeah. Okay, let's talk about it. I've been doing that. We did that before the shutdown began.
HOULAHAN: Right now, all you're doing is dividing us even further.
JOHNSON: Appreciate it. Thanks for your input.
(END VIDEO CLIP)(
BURNETT: So, Anderson, look, the exit polls obviously showed the economy by far the top issue. They also showed an electorate that disapproves of President Trump, right, very strongly. But I'm curious when you see an exchange like that, does that -- do Democrats see this as an opportunity right, to force Mike Johnson's hand on the shutdown itself? CLAYTON: I think, absolutely and Representative Houlahan was doing
her job by trying to make sure that our speaker is negotiating in good faith with both sides of the aisle.
But let's make everything clear. Republicans do not need Democrats right now to pass what they need in Congress. All they have to do is end the filibuster and do what they need to do in their jobs. And their responsibilities right now in Congress. And they've abdicated those responsibilities.
And going back to what Speaker Johnson said earlier in the last question, it's not just blue states that this happened then. This happened in Pennsylvania. It happened in Mississippi. We had wins in Georgia last night, too.
This happened all across the south and in states. North Carolina saw historic wins for our local municipal elections last night, and that may not make national headlines like everything else does.
[19:15:02]
But there were still red to blue flips all across the state that we saw in areas where Republicans should feel that threat of that -- North Carolina Democrats can make gains and not just here, but across the country. I think based on their bad policies coming down from Washington, D.C.
BURNETT: And, Governor, you know, yesterday was a very bad, very bad day, right, for Trump in terms of what happened at the polls. But then today, right, the Supreme Court, Chief Justice John Roberts, as I said, saying, yes, of course, tariffs in dealing with foreign powers. But the vehicle is imposition of taxes on Americans. I mean, that is an incredible blow to Trump's signature legislation.
We don't know how they'll go, but the hearing did not look good. And Trump has said that these tariffs and that this particular case in front of the Supreme Court is, is literally life or death. So how big is this?
PAWLENTY: Yeah. Both in recent interviews he, he said himself acknowledged that this is a dramatic, dramatic development if this case doesn't go well for the president, it has all sorts of implications, secondary and tertiary effects, including, you know, they may have to pay the money back if the court decides against Trump. You may have a situation where it affects the economy in terms of the strength of the dollar. And it could have secondary economic effects.
And you also, President Trump may be able to reinstate some of these tariffs, but with the statutes that he would have at his disposal would be much more narrow and much more brief in their duration. So -- and politically, legally, economically, it would be an earthquake.
BURNETT: An earthquake. And it certainly would be.
Thank you all so much. I really appreciate seeing you. And next, as we've promised, our exclusive interview with the CEO of
JPMorgan Chase, Jamie Dimon, he's invested heavily in New York City. I mean, he just opened a $3 billion new skyscraper. So, what does he think about Zohran Mamdani being a Democratic socialist who told us he doesn't like capitalism?
Plus, a lot of companies shelled out a lot of money for Trump's new ballroom. But JPMorgan Chase was not one of them. Why? And Dimon telling us why he doesn't carry around a cell phone.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:21:23]
BURNETT: Our exclusive interview tonight, the CEO of America's biggest bank, Jamie Dimon. We're here in Detroit, where JPMorgan has invested billions of dollars. And one of the key businesses that helped revitalize this once bankrupt city was banking.
And the big question tonight is what sort of relationship, will big business, which is at the core of capitalism and at the core of New York City, what will they have with the new Democratic socialist mayor, Zohran Mamdani. So I asked Jamie Dimon about his relationship with Mamdani.
Here is our exclusive interview.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: So, Jamie, we're sitting here in a partially finished new office space in Detroit that you're building, happens to be the day after a Democratic socialist just won the mayoral office in the city of New York, which is home for you. Are you going to increase investment outside New York?
DIMON: I'm not going to make quick decisions about New York, not New York right now. New York has some great things going for it, as you know, like the human capital, the brainpower, the financial industry. So, it's a center for us.
But I -- my question really saying is New York has to compete. No city has divine right to success. There are great cities everywhere. We now have more people in Texas than we have in New York. That didn't have to be that way.
And so, if I was any mayor of any city, I'd be thinking about what do I need to do to build a great city to help all my citizens and, you know, all the things that create good competition.
BURNETT: You talk about more people in Texas.
All right. Zohran Mamdani recently in a conversation I had with him, he said something that I wanted to play for you. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Do you like capitalism?
MAYOR-ELECT ZOHRAN MAMDANI (D), NEW YORK CITY: No, I -- I have many critiques of capitalism.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: You had recently referred Jamie to his platform such that you understood it as Marxist was a word you used at a recent conference. Now, I know you just built that skyscraper in New York, right? You're $3 billion in. You know, you can't just walk away from that even if you wanted to, you have 24,000 employees, I believe, in New York altogether.
I guess this is a very basic question because, you know, during this whole mayoral election, there was a lot of talk of this. Do you think any of those employees are actually going to get up and leave New York city? Because Zohran Mamdani is mayor.
DIMON: So, first of all, people have left New York City. You've seen hedge funds and certain banks and Ken Griffin and I think it's a bad idea. I mean, you want to have a very competitive city, and I don't want to use labels. The important thing to me is policies that actually work.
Do you make crime better? Do you make the schools better? Do you make the health system better?
I want to lift up all citizens to. I've seen a lot of mayors and governors say things like that, and they fail to do it because their policies may not be so bad, but the implementation stinks. So, to me is get this stuff right. Go learn.
He's a young man, you know. Will he get good at it? I see a lot of people in big jobs, including political jobs, they grow into it. They're learning. They're trusting people. They're figuring it out. They make mistakes. They adjust.
I've seen a lot of people. They kind of swell into the job. They get worse. They, you know, all becomes about them or something like that.
BURNETT: Ego.
DIMON: I'm hoping he's the good one and that will be important for the future of New York. You know --
BURNETT: So, so, so, he did talk about you specifically today, actually, at his first press conference, our Gloria Pazmino asked him about you. And I will play for you what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAMDANI: I look forward to meeting with Jamie Dimon and meeting with anyone who is concerned about the future of our city and is invested in the vitality of that same city. I think it is critically important that we start to embody a style of leadership that does not demand agreement across every single issue in order to even have a conversation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: You've been doing this job a long time, okay. But this is a new challenge, right? When he says, you know, he wants a leadership that doesn't demand agreement across every single issue in order to have a conversation. That's one thing. But back to what he said a moment ago.
Can you agree to disagree on something as fundamental as capitalism?
DIMON: Look, I don't know what he means by capitalism. And when I read a lot of people, they say that these flaws are -- capitalism flaws, they're not. Public policy works. You know, there's income problems in communist countries and socialist countries, health care problems.
And there are bad policies that cause those outcomes. It's not necessarily capitalism. So, when you say, what is your goal? Look, I want to lift up all citizens, too.
BURNETT: Well, you've talked about income inequality.
DIMON: Of course. I think we have a problem. I think we have not lifted up the bottom 20 percent of society because their schools aren't working. You know, we got to acknowledge that. How do you fix the schools? You got to acknowledge the problem. Their incomes didn't go up enough.
I would double the earned income tax credit. They're -- the crime is worse than those neighborhoods. So, while they're being lectured to by other people, they're the ones who go to crime ridden neighborhoods. Their schools don't teach them job skills.
So, yeah, we need to fix those things. Those things, in my opinion, are not Democrat. They're not Republican.
They're not flaws of capitalism. They're not flaws of socialism. They are bad policy, badly executed.
And you know, so anyone who wants to fix those things, I'm all in. You know, this mayor here, that was all he cared about. I want to fix the potholes. I would reduce crime. I want schools to work. I want to bring new jobs.
And you know what? Unemployment here, 23 percent to 7 percent. And this city had gone bankrupt.
BURNETT: Right.
DIMON: And now, it's investment grade, you know?
BURNETT: And they did it, as you point out, right? One of the first calls that Mayor Duggan here in Detroit made was to you. And there were --
DIMON: I called him.
BURNETT: You called him. I'm sorry. And you talked. He rolled out the red carpet. He wanted you here. He wanted other big business here.
He did things like tax incentives. Obviously, what we've heard from on policy in New York has been something different. An increased corporate tax rate, increased individual taxes at the high end.
But in the context of what you've done here in Detroit, right, $2 billion that you've invested over the past dozen years, Mamdani said something else last night that hits right here in this room where we're sitting. And I'll play that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAMDANI: We will prove that there is no problem too large for government to solve.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Okay, so obviously I picked that for specific reason. Detroit came back from bankruptcy and has passed, what, 11 consecutive balanced budgets under -- under Mayor Duggan here. The population here is growing for the first time in nearly 60 years.
But the reason for all that, I would imagine you believe, is because the problem was too big for government to solve alone, right?
DIMON: Yeah. I think first of all, the government and business have to collaborate. If you just think one alone is going to fix the problem, you're probably not going to succeed. And government and I'm not talking about the city government. The government has to. They take your money. They say what they took it for, what was the outcome.
So we don't acknowledge that the inner city schools in New York aren't doing a good job for those kids. That's number one. I don't care if you're a union member, a parent, a someone like me. We have a problem.
Then you decide how to attack that problem. How do you get them the job skills. And there are things that work. We learn things that work in Paris, we things that work in Dallas, we things that work in the aviation high school near Jackson Heights, where I grew up.
That's what I care about, is getting the policy right that actually matters. And that can help a city. Getting the policy wrong will be a disaster. So, you know, government -- the heavy hand of government has failed in so many things. And, you know, and we should acknowledge that.
So, you know, when you look at America and they look at, you know what I'm talking about D.C., the swamp of D.C., they want to know what happened to their money. How can the FAA is antiquated? How come the Veterans Affair doesn't do a better job for its citizens?
How come affordable housing is not affordable? How come we can't build pipelines that create cheap, good, low CO2 gas in New York City? How come we can't build new schools? How come we can't? We already spend like $800 billion in K-12 and then we complain about it.
And I can go on and on and on where, you know, other than maybe the military. The governments got a lot of speaking up about what they're doing with your money. Is it efficient, is it effective? Is it -- how is it being used. And sometimes, you know, as a businessperson, I always ask first, am I already spending what I'm doing well, before I ask for more?
BURNETT: I know you had a brief conversation with Zohran Mamdani, or at least he told me that you did, and I got the impression it was pretty recently. Yeah.
DIMON: I called him -- but it was a long time ago because I had not gone to a meeting. I was just telling him I didn't go -- not go to avoid him. I was out of the country and I said, feel free to call me. And we have not spoken since. I left a message today.
BURNETT: You left a message today?
DIMON: Yeah.
BURNETT: Okay. So obviously, you're willing to meet with him any time.
DIMON: If I find -- I will. And if I find it productive, I'll continue to do it.
BURNETT: Okay. President Trump said that his efforts to turn -- or that the efforts your efforts wasn't talking about you specifically, but your yours and others here have not been what succeeded, right? He looked at Detroit and he said, a year ago yesterday he said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I've been hearing about Detroit for a long time. They've been talking about that miracle in Detroit. Well, I mean, look, we got to be honest, it hasn't happened. But it's going to happen now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:30:02]
BURNETT: So, he was saying, you know, now that he was in office, it was going to happen. So, does he deserve the credit for what you've done over the past 12 years?
DIMON: No., I don't -- I'm not saying -- I think he was saying that.
Look, I would tell him if I was with him, you know, Mr. President, go with me to Detroit. Did you know their unemployment went from 23 percent to 7 percent? Do you know their population is going up?
Did you know this plant is -- just like you want is building a big new plant here? You have 25,000 jobs. It's not even in the numbers yet. Did you know the crime is going down? Do you know that during --
BURNETT: That doesn't sound like he did.
DIMON: Yeah. So, I say come here. You know, and you know, he's pretty good. Let him come and learn, and he might change his mind. So -- and I don't know what time period he's referring to. And --
BURNETT: But he said that a year --
DIMON: They did a great job. This city was in deep trouble.
BURNETT: Uh-huh.
DIMON: This city was in deep trouble. This wasn't like New York, which was.
BURNETT: No.
DIMON: It was kind of healthy, yeah.
BURNETT: I saw a recent thing, 60 percent of college graduates from last spring, college graduates still don't have jobs. You know, Chipotle, I'm sure you saw, right? They said young people can't afford eating out. Stock got crushed. And they're not alone. Right? McDonalds other companies are in a similar situation.
Are we in a recession as far as the actual real world that we all live in, every day we walk around in, as opposed to the intangible world? Are we in a recession right now?
DIMON: So, first of all, both Democrats and Republicans say that affordability is the issue.
BURNETT: Yeah.
DIMON: I don't think saying that is a policy. And I think there's truth to it. You can say as inflation, as jobs, wages aren't keeping up. It's kind of all those things. And I think -- I've already mentioned there is truth to that. The lower income wages haven't gone up for a long period of time.
There's a -- there's weakening in the job market. Theres no question, it's not recessionary. It's just weakening. But it'll continue to weaken. I don't know.
But it goes back to this thing about you got it. When you graduate, whether it's high school or community college or college, the skills and you need the skills to get the job. It's not enough anymore to say I can work hard.
You know, in the old days, you know, if you can, you can be a in 10th grade, go get a factory in Detroit. And if you worked hard, eventually you could afford a family home, a car. And you know, that may not be true anymore, but the skills that we know we need, the jobs, A.I., coding, advanced.
BURNETT: Yeah. DIMON: Matter of fact, I went to visit focus hope here years ago. You
know, they teach kids, you know, younger kids who didn't finish high school, you know, ex-cons how to maintain this machinery. And it would be hard for you and I to learn, people -- 85 percent finish like 12 weeks of training, you know, $55,000 a year job.
BURNETT: Yeah.
DIMON: And it works. Those things work. And you just have to get people to, you know, to invest in them.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: All right. Next, the CEO of the most valuable company in the world, Nvidia. He says that China is on track to win the A.I. race. So how does Jamie Dimon see it? And what about the whole bubble question? Does he even personally use A.I.? More of my conversation with the JPMorgan Chase CEO, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:36:59]
BURNETT: Breaking news, a major warning tonight from the CEO of the most valuable company in the world, Nvidia. Nvidia's chief, Jensen Huang, telling "The Financial Times", quote, "China is going to win the A.I. race."
Well, I asked Jamie Dimon, who runs Americas biggest bank, about Nvidia, and its massive valuation and about A.I. and whether he uses it.
Here's more of our exclusive conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: Theres one company that sort of says it all about the zeitgeist right now. I think it's the leather jacket-wearing CEO of Nvidia. Right? He walks around. He's always got that, right. It's like a brand now.
Nvidia -- I mean, he even heard of such an odd thing just a few years ago. Right now, I believe that the market cap of Nvidia is larger than all but two economies on this planet. The market cap of one company, Jamie.
DIMON: Yeah.
BURNETT: Okay. That -- that sounds crazy. That sounds like the biggest bubble that some people have ever heard. Is it? Or do you think that that is a legitimate sign of where were going?
DIMON: Look, when you talk about the economy, okay, there are we still have the most prosperous economy the world has ever seen. The best capital markets. I'm talking about venture capital. I include private credit and banks and hedge funds and private equity. It's enormous. It allocates capital. It creates this innovation. And
we still have that. And the economy is still chugging along. You know, it's -- it may have gone a little bit weaker, but right now, it's still kind of in that soft landing, the economy will still be the --
BURNETT: Do you buy Nvidia right now?
DIMON: I can't make stuff --
BURNETT: I know you can't. But I mean --
DIMON: Look, it's an unbelievable company. And the way I look at A.I. a little bit is it is real. You know, we've been doing it for, you know, for since 2012.
BURNETT: Yeah.
DIMON: It's hugely productive. It's almost at the beginning. I agree with that concept too. And of all the companies in it, you know, it's like the Internet. They may not all pay off, but you did get Google, you know, Facebook, YouTube, you know, part of Microsoft, Amazon, Salesforce.
So, people have to -- yeah. There was a little bit of a bubble in there. But the benefit of the Internet --
BURNETT: So, both things could be true a bubble and it's real.
DIMON: And I think your kids, there may -- they may avoid half the cancers that afflicted us. So, let's be --
BURNETT: Yeah.
DIMON: There are composites for airplanes and cars, and new materials and new drug inventions may be enormous. And so, mankind should benefit. And yeah, the valuations today may be too high for some of these folks.
BURNETT: And do you use A.I. --
DIMON: Yeah.
BURNETT: -- yourself?
DIMON: Yeah.
BURNETT: What for?
DIMON: Well, we have -- I usually do research you know.
BURNETT: Oh, really --
DIMON: I mean, like the google search kind of research or something?
BURNETT: Right. DIMON: My chairman's letter, I actually asked questions which
population does this and do research and stuff like that. So, we use it for very specific stuff. Fraud marketing risk design. We can measure in some of those cases exactly what we get, how much cost we saved, how much productivity, you know, speed to answer customer satisfaction.
Some we don't. We have LLMs on internal data. So, you can go -- if we have --
BURNETT: Your own large -- whatever -- large language model.
DIMON: But it's only on internal. So, you could ask, you know, how many companies have these triggers in contracts.
[19:40:02]
How many -- you know I want to know companies. You know, we have I assume you might ask about the -- and resiliency initiative. How many companies are building drones that we invest in, in Texas. And it will give you answers you can ask to do analytics. You know, how many companies have, you know, EBITDA has changed like this rate. And so -- and it's just starting and some you can measure and some you can't.
And so, you -- you -- like you could have done research and said, hey, what would the population, the public and CNN want to hear about from Mayor Duggan and Jamie Dimon if I'm interviewing them? And they'll come up with a list for you.
BURNETT: So replaces our brains, essentially.
DIMON: It's not going to replace thinking.
BURNETT: It won't, yeah.
DIMON: It's going to do a lot of work for you.
BURNETT: Okay. But so, you know, Tom Lee, widely respected financial researcher. You know, he's on CNBC a lot.
He said that JPMorgan right now, you've got 330,000 employees. So, you just were talking about all that research. I mean, I started my career out doing that sort of work, basically saying, you don't need me anymore. He was saying it could go down to 20,000 employees.
I mean, that's a 94 percent drop. I know that's not where you are right now, but I mean, okay, but is that a world you could see? Is that where this is going, do you think?
DIMON: I think the much wiser way to look at it is that there will be jobs that are eliminated, 10 percent, 10 percent, 50 percent, 80 percent by A.I. It will also create jobs, just like when people had the car, you know the horses, but they car created mechanic jobs, tractors eliminated and fertilizer eliminated. You know, 39 million jobs in farms. You get better food, better farm and all that brain power and human capital went to do other things over time. The only real risk for society -- forget military and nuclear
proliferation, which I worry about -- is all things get used by bad guys. That's true for almost anything. So, we need to think that through and regulate it and proper regulation, not overregulation.
And if somehow it's too fast for society. So, I do a thought exercise. If I think there are 2 million commercial truckers in the United States, if it eliminate two million jobs tomorrow, and it was safer for the streets, less CO2, better time delivery, no complaints, happier customers, would you push that button and put two million people out of jobs? You know, making good paying jobs that support families where the next job they have may be, you know, maybe stocking shelves somewhere at $25,000 a year?
Well, if you want a revolution, that's a good way to do it. In the meantime, for JPMorgan, we always redeploy. If we do a good job, we'll probably have the same headcount and more headcount down the road.
BURNETT: Okay, so you're renovating and building this new office space in Detroit, much smaller scale than what's happening in Washington, right where the east wing has been demolished for what's going to be a very, very large ballroom that the president is building. Now, a lot of CEOs have rushed to donate to this. Right? And it matters to him. Right?
So, he looks at the list on that list. You got Amazon, Coinbase, Google. You got a whole lot of others, Comcast, tons of companies on there. I didn't see JPMorgan Chase on that list.
Did you think about it? Is there any chance you're going to do it?
DIMON: You have to look at JP -- we have an issue, okay? Which is anything we do since we do a lot of contracts with governments here and around the world, we have to be very careful how anything is perceived. And also, how the next DOJ is going to deal with it. So, we're quite conscious of the risk we bear by doing anything, it looks like, you know, buying favors or anything like that.
So, you know, do we do things like that. And -- but we also have policies. We don't do certain things --
BURNETT: Right.
DIMON: -- because it just makes it easier for us. We have helped the inaugurations. That was a normal thing that a lot of companies did. So, we'll see.
BURNETT: This the concern of buying favors.
DIMON: Yeah.
BURNETT: I want to ask you about one other thing before you go. Another big story, which of course, is the Epstein files. Jeffrey Epstein banked at JPMorgan Chase. You know, you've talked about that many times. One of the leading congressmen who is pushing for release of the
Epstein files, right, which is at the FBI, the president and the speaker have resisted that. He asked for you and other bank CEOs to testify. He said this on our show on Friday, and I wanted to play for you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): We are demanding that JPMorgan and others come before the oversight committee.
Why is he getting hundreds of millions of dollars? What is all this money going for? What is he doing when we know he's running a sex trafficking ring? Why? Why are such powerful people involved with him?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Now, I know you said you regret JPMorgan ever doing business with that individual with Jeffrey Epstein, but what do you think should happen with those Epstein files?
DIMON: First of all, we were in litigation this and a lot has already been made public.
BURNETT: Yeah.
DIMON: All of my emails, I had tons of stuff.
BURNETT: It's all out there. Yeah.
DIMON: I have no problem with any transparency. Zero.
BURNETT: Well, you said you would testify --
DIMON: No. Theres nothing that they're going to learn from me that's important. We kicked him out in 2013. You should know this is important to me. And I think our government should listen closely, we have been finding these suspicious activity reports which we're not allowed to disclose, but it came out in the courts recently, I think as early as 2002 and 2004 and 2008, the government knew a lot more than we did.
So, all that time, I wish we hadn't done anything with him. I never personally knew him or anything like that. But what we knew, we could have known, we should have known. And then we get punished and, you know, and that's why we debunked people, which I also don't like.
[19:45:03]
And we have to kick people out, and we make -- we can make their lives horrible because were afraid of DOJ or regulators coming after us. And they knew a lot. The government already knew a lot. They knew they knew in '07, '08, '09, 2010, a lot more than JPMorgan.
BURNETT: Uh-huh.
DIMON: And so, if I were Ro Khanna, I'd be asking, what did the government know? What did they do?
BURNETT: Why didn't they do something?
DIMON: And they allowed it to go. And after we kicked down 2013, a lot of the really bad stuff happened after that. So that happened under their watch. And then now, you've seen that tons of other people bank them after that, not JPMorgan.
So yes, we regret it. You can say we were late, that we could have should have maybe kind of know, but boy, but we -- I wouldn't do -- no one in our company would do anything to aid and abet a beast like that.
BURNETT: All right. Jamie Dimon, thanks so much. I very much appreciate your time.
DIMON: Erin, thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: All right. Then, Jamie Dimon talked about why he doesn't carry a cell phone with him during the day.
Plus, New Yorkers split on the city's history-making new mayor. Wait until you see this report.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:50:18]
BURNETT: And we're back tonight with more of our exclusive conversation with Jamie Dimon. As we're finishing our conversation, Dimon told me why he does not normally carry his cell phone. And whether and this is a question that comes up again and again, but now, we're down to the wire. Is he going to run for president? Here he is.
(BEGIN VDIEOTAPE)
BURNETT: So, we're standing here and we don't have phones. Well, I'm checking, I -- nope, I don't have it. Okay.
But when the world changed, sometime in our lives where all of a sudden when you don't have it, you feel naked, you feel afraid, you feel anxious, you recently said --
DIMON: I don't carry with me.
BURNETT: You don't carry it?
DIMON: No, I do, but I don't have it in front of me all the time. Like if you send me a text during the day, I probably do not read it.
BURNETT: Really?
DIMON: Yeah.
BURNETT: So how do you do? I mean, is it just as simple as you don't have your notifications on, or how do you --
DIMON: No, I don't have -- I don't have notifications. The only notifications I get is my kids. That's it. Like when they -- when they text me, I get that and when the phone vibrates.
But people don't call me on the phone that much. They tend to call my office, and I don't always take it with me when I'm walking around the thing and going to meetings, I don't have it on me.
BURNETT: You don't?
DIMON: It's in my office. If you need me, it's important. You have to call my office and she'll come get me.
BURNETT: So you said you don't want when people are on their iPad, you get mad in a meeting.
DIMON: But when I go to my meetings, I'm a -- I literally, I'm 100. I did the pre-reads and I'm 100 percent focused on us. What are you talking about? Why are you talking about it as opposed to I'm distracted and thinking about other things and --
BURNETT: So, what makes you still love it? I have known you for almost 20 years, and you are still the CEO of JPMorgan Chase. What makes you do the same job and still do it with the intensity that you do it?
DIMON: It gives me purpose in life to -- when I grew up as a kid, you know, I'm grandson of Greek immigrants, out of Jackson Heights, Queens, by the way, where AOC is from. You know, the goal was to have a purpose in life.
Your purpose could be reporter, art, science. My older brother, the physicist. It could be doctor. It could be businessman. And also make the world a better place. Treat them with respect.
And I enjoy that. I enjoy -- I get the thrill of traveling around the world and seeing people in action. And I get tired there. There are days it's like -- I'm like, leave me -- just leave me alone.
BURNETT: Yeah.
DIMON: Yeah.
BURNETT: But they say, you know. Jamie Dimon, treasury secretary, now, Jamie Dimon, is he going to run for president?
DIMON: Neither.
BURNETT: Do you still think of a future like that?
DIMON: No. No, this is my perch. I think I could do this and do it well and help make -- help make the world a better place. And all these policy issues and help lift up cities and clients and we -- I work with people I adore. I mean, literally, I do, even though I could be tough on them sometimes. I tell them my respect and for you folks is way up here. And so, I feel an obligation, like when I go to all these places around the world, I don't go like, (INAUDIBLE), I kind of walk away saying, God, I got to do a better job for them. And so --
BURNETT: Jamie, thanks.
DIMON: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: And next, New York City, it is now a city divided after Zohran Mamdani's historic win. Wait until you see this report.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:56:56]
BURNETT: Tonight, a tale of two cities. Zohran Mamdani, New York City mayor-elect, winning more than 50 percent of the vote. So, half the city is clearly rejoicing. But a lot of others are threatening to move out.
And Jason Carroll has this special report OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): New York's South Asian community celebrating the city's first South Asian and first Muslim mayor, Zohran Mamdani.
MUSIC: The name is Mamdani. M-A-M-D-A-N-I.
CARROLL (voice-over): His win was just the news Noemi Rivera, a dog walker in the city, says she needed to hear this morning.
NOEMI RIVERA, SUPPORTS MAMDANI: Okay. We're getting some change. I was so shocked, so shocked. But it had me in a great mood this morning.
MIRELA DEITZ, NEW YORK VOTER: I'm in mourning.
CARROLL: You're in mourning. Why are you in mourning?
DEITZ: Because our city is dead because of our new mayor.
CARROLL (voice-over): Mirela Dietz says she is feeling real fear on this post-election day. She has real concerns the city's newly elected mayor, who says he's a Democratic socialist, will take the city in the wrong direction.
DEITZ: Socialism doesn't work, and it's not going to work in this city.
CARROLL (voice-over): Deitz is not alone. Martine Assarole (ph), a French teacher, worries Mamdani, who has been critical of police in the past, won't be tough enough on crime.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am afraid, very afraid.
CARROLL (voice-over): Mamdani won a decisive victory, but still almost half of all voters did not support him.
Retired pediatrician Andre Broussard voted for former Governor Andrew Cuomo.
ANDRE BROUSSARD, VOTED FOR CUOMO: I mean, he came out of almost nowhere, you know? He doesn't have a lot of administrative experience or any. And so, people are very divided.
CARROLL (voice-over): Mamdani's critics worry his call to tax the rich, those making more than 1 million a year will scare away businesses. Billionaire activist Bill Ackman, who spent more than $1 million to try and stop Mamdani from winning, congratulated him on X posting, "Well, I did not support Mamdani for mayor and have concerns about the unintended and negative consequences of his policies, I want to do everything I can to help New York City, regardless of who our mayor is."
The mayor-elect says he appreciated Ackman's words.
MAYOR-ELECT ZOHRAN MAMDANI (D), NEW YORK: I think what I find is that there is a needed commitment from leaders of the city to speak and work with anyone who is committed to lowering the cost of living in this city, and that's something that I will fulfill.
CARROLL (voice-over): Mamdani will also have to work to win over some members of the Jewish community who have seen a rise in antisemitism and have grave concerns with Mamdani's sharp criticism of Israel.
ZACH SAGE FOX, VIDEO CREATOR: This sucks. Like I don't. There's no other way to say it. You know, Mamdani is a symptom of a much bigger disease.
CARROLL (voice-over): Mamdani has repeatedly said he will be mayor for all New Yorkers. Supporters such as Andrea Donahue and her son Tommy say give him a chance. And the divisiveness may fade away.
ANDREA DONAHUE, NEW YORK VOTER: When there's been such a division. There's such a relief once the election is over and I think people are going to come together.
BROUSSARD: It's over.
CARROLL: Move on. Is that your thoughts?
BROUSSARD: Move on. You have to live with it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL: And, Erin, many of the New Yorkers that we spoke to say what this ultimately is going to come down to for them is what he is able to accomplish when he becomes mayor. He's made a lot of promises, as you know, and a lot of eyes are going to be on him to see what he's able to make good on some of those promises -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Jason, thank you very much.
And thanks to all of you.
"AC360" starts now.
