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Erin Burnett Outfront
Trump: "You'll Find Out" How Far I'll Go To Take Over Greenland; Bondi Makes Unexpected Minneapolis Visit As DOJ Subpoenas Minnesota Officials; Mamdani Reveals What He Talks To Trump About By Phone And Text. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired January 20, 2026 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:28]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
Breaking news, Trump vowing, quote, "you'll find out" when asked about his team's plans for Greenland. The prime minister there telling his country to prepare for possible invasion. Trump's Greenland and NATO threats tonight sending stocks reeling.
Plus, fueling the fire in Minneapolis. Pam Bondi suddenly on the ground there as Trump's Justice Department subpoenas more top officials. Saint Paul's mayor got a subpoena today and she's OUTFRONT.
And New York City Mayor Zohran Mamdani speaking out about his relationship with President Trump. What are they texting about?
Let's go OUTFRONT.
(MUSIC)
BURNETT: And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news, "you'll find out". Those are the exact words Trump using in his latest threat as he is preparing to leave for Davos tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: How far are you willing to go to acquire Greenland?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You'll find out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Pretty sinister.
And it came on the same day that the prime minister of Greenland warned his people that the country needs to prepare for a possible invasion. All of this coming as Trump fires off dozens of social media posts about his plans to take Greenland over. And he did that overnight last night, all the way until 2:00 a.m. he was posting.
And then today he had a one hour and 40 minute press conference. The stock market reeling in large part because of what they saw and heard.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stocks tumbling as President Trump turns his push for Greenland into an economic fight with Europe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And the Dow shedding nearly 1000 points. And the fears on wall street were compounded by Trump's posts over the night. I mean, there were posts like this A.I. generated images. Here's one showing the U.S. flag over Canada and Venezuela. Then there was another one showing Trump, J.D. Vance and Marco Rubio planting U.S. flag on Greenland.
And then on top of all that, he was reposting some pretty stunning and unsettling comments. Here's one. At what point are we going to realize the enemies within? China and Russia are the boogeymen. The real threat is the U.N. and NATO.
That's a pretty stunning thing to say if you think about it. Eighty years since World War Two, the world order established by Truman and Eisenhower, and yet the president of the United States says that the enemy is within.
At this point, it is clear to anyone honest that Trump means what he says when he posts things like the enemy with is within, because his actions match his words. And now Trump is about to head to Davos, where he will face questions from Americas allies. Well, the American allies that he now sees as enemies.
And before he leaves, he hosted that disconcerting one hour and 40- minute press conference. And yes, in that conference, he did threaten Greenland. But in between touting his accomplishments on a variety of things as he sees them, from drugs to immigration, he also said things like this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'm glad my finger wasn't in that sucker.
That could have done some damage. But you know what? I wouldn't have shown the pain. I would have acted like nothing happened. As my finger fell off.
I like the Hells Angels.
I was going to call it the Gulf of Trump, but I thought that I would be killed if I did that. I wanted to do it. I wanted to.
To me, a town, it looks better when you have military people.
She said, son, you could be a professional baseball player. I said, thanks, mom.
They say to me about, weaponized, I don't weaponize anything. Jack sick Smith, he's a sick son of a bitch.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Pick the line there that stands out to you, and some may dismiss this right as just Trump being Trump, but no one can afford to look away from his actions and his actions specifically in this moment on NATO and Greenland. It is a fraught moment because of what he is choosing to do, and they cannot look away from his actions on what he is now calling a board of peace for Gaza, a board to which he has invited Vladimir Putin and Belarusian strongman Alexander Lukashenko as core members.
In Davos, he's actually even sent out this invitation. As you can see here, it's a signing ceremony that he is hosting for this so-called board of peace. He's going to host it this week.
So, when you ask who is standing up to him on this right now?
Well, on the issue of that peace board, one country in particular stands out. That's France. The French president, Emmanuel Macron, says he will not be part of Trump's new board. So, does it surprise anyone that Trump is now threatening France with a 200 percent extra tariff on French wine and champagne? Does that really surprise you?
And in this extraordinary moment, here's what Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT BESSENT, TREASURY SECRETARY: Everyone, take a deep breath.
[19:05:00]
Do not escalate. Do not escalate. And President Trump has a strategy here. Hear him out and then everything will be fine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Richard Quest is OUTFRONT live in Davos.
So, Richard, never -- never mind what the treasury secretary of the United States says. Just listen to him and everything will be fine. How much fear and uncertainty is there right now among all of the people you're talking to?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR AT LARGE: It's off the charts, Erin. I've spoken today to the president of the European Central Bank, Christine Lagarde, who, you know, she talks about this being the greatest wakeup call that Europe has had over what needs to be done for Europe to come together. She talks about mounting, growing uncertainty.
The president of Microsoft, Brad Smith, he told me today, look, the sheer amount of business being done between NATO countries and the companies means that this has to be solved in a favorable way. And yet, at the same time, you do have these leaders like Mark Carney from Canada, Macron from France, Von Der Leyen from the E.U. They are saying that the message from Donald Trump, this one of strength, power, force that Stephen Miller put out only a few weeks ago. They have to take it seriously.
It's not an option to sort of follow Scott Bessent's line, and that's why you saw the market fall. That's why you saw the worst day since October, as reality is sinking in.
To be sure, Erin, tomorrow here at Davos, Donald Trump could come here and play nicey nicey and Gary Cohn could be right, maximalist down to compromise. But which European leader wants to be on the wrong side of that decision. And that's the dilemma that they face here tomorrow.
BURNETT: Well, it certainly is. And it gets to a certain point. And I and I don't say this lightly, but when you abuse people again and again, you don't get a relationship back. And I just think it's worth pointing that out at this point. All right. Yeah.
Richard Quest, thank you very much. And he's live in Davos. Richard doing such an incredible coverage there talking to all of those leaders, world leaders business leaders.
And let's go OUTFRONT now to Democratic Congresswoman Madeleine Dean. She just returned from Denmark with a bipartisan congressional delegation. She sits on the Foreign Affairs Committee.
And I appreciate your time.
So, when the prime minister of Greenland says today that everyone there needs to start preparing for a possible military invasion of the territory, it's a pretty stunning thing to say. I know I remember being in Ukraine when those words were said and we were going around looking for, bomb shelters from World War Two, which of course, in that case are now being used daily.
Youve just returned from Denmark. What did you hear there? How afraid are they? Are they? Do they really think Trump means it when he says, you'll find out what I'm going to do?
REP. MADELEINE DEAN (D-PA): Well, we have to take him seriously. We are just back. But what you just described, think of the difference here. The difference is that it was Russia, an adversary who invaded Ukraine for an ally to invade the sovereign territory of the kingdom of Denmark, which includes the island of Greenland. It is insane. It makes no sense.
No one should listen to Scott Bessent. He's making no sense. He's carrying water that I do not understand.
We were 10 members of both the House and the Senate, Republicans and Democrats, who went and met with the prime minister of Greenland, the prime minister of Denmark, members of parliament, both Greenlandic and from Denmark. The Danes.
And they are -- they're steeled in their belief that this would be crossing an extraordinary red line. Think about it. Denmark and the United States have been allied for 225 years. Denmark and the United States are founding partners in NATO.
You hear in the president just a lack of understanding of history or care for history. He certainly doesn't care for allies and friends. It makes absolutely no sense that somehow the president would use military force against Greenland.
And our ambition is to make sure that Republicans here in the House and Republicans in the Senate tell the president so.
BURNETT: So, you know, I think it's so important, obviously, that your visit was bipartisan. As you point out, I want to play something that California Governor Gavin Newsom said today. He was talking about his frustration, as he sees it, in how the world has so far handled Trump, right, with incredible, sycophancy.
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Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D), CALIFORNIA: I can't take this complicity. People rolling over. I should have brought a bunch of kneepads for all the world leaders. I mean, handing out crowns and handing out -- I mean, this is pathetic
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Do you think anything's going to change?
DEAN: Well, I actually would rather go back to where you began this reporting this evening. The statements that the president has made over and over, zigging and zagging, you wouldn't accept that kind of nonsense from your child. Or as my husband said to me this weekend, as much as I love our grandchildren, I really wouldn't accept it of grandchildren even.
The president is not making a lot of sense. He wants to possess things. The island of Greenland is not a possession. It's not an asset for him. They are our ally.
One of the most troubling things that we heard while we were there, from the Greenlandic members of parliament, is that children in Greenland go to bed at night, anxious, fearful, sleepless, worried that the Americans might attack them. What in God's name are we doing?
We have poured away -- well, we haven't. The president has poured away respect and trust for our allies and of course, respect in us. It is up to us, Congress, to reclaim that and tell the president that he is unwell in these ambitions.
BURNETT: Okay, so is Congress going to do this? I mean, Republican Congressman Mike Lawler spoke out today. Here's something he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): I think there is broad bipartisan opposition in Congress to any use of force in relation to Greenland.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So will Republicans stand up? Will this be a bipartisan red line?
DEAN: It should have already been a bipartisan red line. They should have should have already stood up. I do take some heart. We traveled with Senators Murkowski and Tillis, and they both believe this is an inane idea. And Senator Tillis, in particular, says he knows of many Republicans in the Senate who will not abide by this. My question is, why aren't they speaking up now?
Mr. Lawler, all of you, go to the president and say this is a bad idea. You are actually in breach of trust of some of our most important allies. Do you know that when we were -- when we were attacked at 9/11, that was the triggering of Article Five for NATO allies. Who stood and fought and died alongside us? Denmark. We laid a wreath at the memorial flame for those 50 dead.
BURNETT: All right, congresswoman dean, I appreciate your time and thank you very much.
And when you mentioned September 11th, the only time in NATO history that Article Five was invoked, it is time to bring in Nicholas Burns, who is the former U.S. ambassador to NATO under President Bush. He was also U.S. ambassador to China under President Biden, has worked under multiple Democratic and Republican administrations.
So, Ambassador, I appreciate your time.
And Congresswoman Dean mentioning September 11th, right, the only time Article Five was invoked. You saw what happened at that time, right? You were there.
Now, the United States is threatening a NATO country. I'm sure something that you would have never imagined in your wildest nightmares. I guess the question is, though, do you think that this is real, or is this, as Scott Bessent says, just listen to Trump and everything will be fine?
NICHOLAS BURNS, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO AND CHINA: Erin, it seems very real, unfortunately. And if President Trump continues to threaten to attack Denmark over Greenland and continues to try to coerce the Danes, it has the capacity and potential of destroying NATO as we know it, and think of the consequences that that happens. That will be a major gift to our two principal adversaries in the world, Russia and China. It will be a major loss of influence to the United States. All that capacity that all those countries that fought with us, most notably Canada and Denmark. In Afghanistan, the Danes suffered the highest percentage of casualties on a per capita basis.
And who would trust us after that? One of our core values since the Second World War is that we don't want to live by the law of the jungle, manifest destiny of the 19th century. We're not an imperial power, and that's what Truman believed, and Eisenhower and JFK and Ronald Reagan. And suddenly we have a president who disregards the United Nations charter that borders are inviolable, and he's threatening to attack one of our closest allies.
I agree with the congresswoman. This was really -- this was unthinkable to the founding fathers of NATO. It's very real right now.
BURNETT: Now, Trump, of course, has threatened that if Europe doesn't go along with this, that the tariffs of 10 percent, up to 25 percent, then there was a question of whether he was confused about what they were doing.
[19:15:04]
When Macron said, I'm not going to be on your Gaza board of peace, which is widely seen as a Trump replacement to the U.N., he threatened a 200 percent tariff on French champagne. So, this is what he's been doing to NATO allies in recent days.
In that context, Ambassador, let me play something he said today about NATO.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I did more for NATO than any other person alive or dead. The big fear I have with NATO is we spend tremendous amounts of money with NATO, and I know we'll come to their rescue, but I just really do question whether or not they'll come to ours.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: What's your reaction to that?
BURNS: My reaction is, I remember what happened on September 11th, 2001, when I was the ambassador to NATO. The first person who called me after the attacks, 3,000 people dead in New York and Washington, David Wright, the Canadian ambassador. One of the people after that, Niels Egeland, the Danish ambassador.
They all bled for us in Afghanistan and Iraq. The Canadians fought in Kandahar province. You remember one of the most difficult places.
So, President Trump is wrong about this, or he doesn't have a sense of history. Our recent history over the last 25 years is that our allies always stand up for us, and that's the principal advantage that we have over China, where I served as ambassador over the last four years. They don't have any allies in the world. No one would stand up for China in a 9/11 situation, and no one for Russia.
But if we forsake NATO and we allow the NATO alliance to go out of history, our word and our credibility in the world, and that means a lot is not going to be in good standing.
BURNETT: Well, it's amazing when you look through the top 20, you know, defense powers in the world, right? All but I guess Iran, China and Russia. I may be missing one, but all of them were members of NATO and American allies, right? So to break that up, just to think about that in a purely pragmatic basis is a stunning proposition.
Ambassador, Trump posted a message on social media. It was a repost, actually. It said so at what point are we going to realize the enemy is within? China and Russia are the boogeymen when the real threat is the U.N., NATO, and this religion.
So -- so at this point, what do you think when you hear I mean, again, I contrast that with what we heard from Scott Bessent. Just listen to Trump. He's got a strategy and everything will be fine.
When the president is posting that the real threat is the U.N., NATO, and this religion?
BURNS: Well, it's completely -- if he's referring to NATO or even the United Nations, which was founded by the United States and is located in the United States and inspired in our image. He's just wrong. He's wrong in the history. He's wrong in the facts.
My own experience as a diplomat for both political parties, as you said, is that we often succeed because we have allies in the world, and they maximize our power in the world. And that's a great gift. And if we throw it away, what a catastrophic mistake it will made.
Maybe the presidents feeling hubristic. He's filled with self- confidence after that brilliant military operation by our military in Venezuela. But you can't go around the world crossing other countries borders, taking someone else's land, especially a NATO ally. And that's what he's threatening.
And so, you saw Prime Minister Carney of Canada speak up very boldly today against President Trump. You saw President Macron. I think this is an existential issue for the Europeans. I think we should expect resistance, diplomatic, political resistance. I don't think they're going to give in to Donald Trump.
BURNETT: Ambassador Burns, thank you very much. Grateful for your time.
BURNS: Thanks, Erin.
BURNETT: And next, Trump's Justice Department targeting multiple Minnesota officials tonight, including the mayor of Saint Paul, who's just been subpoenaed. She's our guest.
And a Trump appointed judge blasting Trump's handpicked prosecutor, Lindsey Halligan, telling her, quote, this charade must come to an end, an incredible moment that went under the radar today.
And an OUTFRONT update on the Goldman Sachs executive and former Obama White House lawyer, Jeffrey Epstein called his great defender. A new report tonight reveals just how much Epstein relied on her, including her role in pressing to kill an ABC interview with one of Epstein's victims from ever seeing air. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:23:50]
BURNETT: Breaking news, Attorney General Pam Bondi making an unexpected trip to Minnesota tonight, sending a warning to the state's top leaders.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAM BONDI, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Whether it's a public official, whether it's a law enforcement officer, no one is above the law in this state or in this country, and people will be held accountable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Her warning coming on the same day that we learned the Justice Department has sent subpoenas to at least five more top officials across Minnesota. So that now includes the governor, Tim Walz, the Attorney General Keith Ellison, the Minneapolis mayor, Jacob Frey, and the Saint Paul Mayor Kaohly Her, who I will speak to in just a moment, all part of the DOJ probe into whether the officials obstructed ICE efforts in the state.
Governor Walz wasting no time firing back to the DOJ, saying, quote, Minnesota will not be intimidated into silence and neither will I.
Now, the Saint Paul mayor, Mayor Her is OUTFRONT.
And, Mayor, I appreciate your time.
So I guess just to start with this subpoena. You know, I don't know if you thought maybe you wouldn't be on that list, but here you are. You're now on it.
What are you being asked for by the DOJ? Have they said anything about the possible charges that you might be facing?
[19:25:01]
MAYOR KAOHLY HER (D), ST. PAUL, MN: Well, Erin, there's more that's going to be coming out about the subpoena. But for right now, we know that Trump promised retribution. And consistent with that, we were served a subpoena today. But we remain committed to our residents and to our communities and neighbors and protecting them.
BURNETT: So Attorney General Pam Bondi was in your state today, unexpected, incredibly rare. And she showed up today. Do you know why she did that today? Was there anything that you're hearing with your interpretation of this?
HER: You know, I haven't heard specifically as to the reason why she's here, but it's pretty clear that this administration is sending people in to intimidate us, and we will not be intimidated, as the governor said. BURNETT: So, one of the looming DOJ cases such that we understand it
specifically seems to be about the protesters who rushed into that church. That was in your city in Saint Paul on Sunday. They interrupted a service. They said they were there to protest.
A pastor there who is also a local ICE official, the deputy attorney general, Todd Blanche, says whatever it was, it was anti-Christian and it was a crime.
Mayor, I'm curious how you see this. Do you think that some of those protesters may have gone beyond their First Amendment rights and going into a church like that and broke the law?
HER: I will say that the, you know, ICE led the way in their charge of going on to school properties and detaining people from places that should be just as well kept sacred. And so, you know, we responded the exact same way we would have at any place of worship that our PD came in. And, you know, because this is an ongoing investigation, I can't comment more than that. But I would say we would have handled this in any other way, in any other place of worship, the same way.
BURNETT: So, I understand what you're saying. Just to be clear, though, at the beginning you were saying, well, they go into schools in sacred places. I mean, is this sort of a situation where if they're doing it, it's okay, then if protesters are doing it as you see it?
HER: I don't ever believe that it is okay for us to cross the line in which there are spaces in which people have certain rights and freedoms. But I will say that if this government wants us to obey the rule of law, that they also need to follow that as well, and that they cannot expect residents who are feeling terrorized and sieged to be operating under any different circumstances or any different rules than they are operating in.
BURNETT: So, President Trump today was asked then about what ICE is doing in your state and other cities across the country, I guess to this point that you're making about when they have gone too far and what they're doing. Here is specifically what he said to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And, you know, they're going to make mistakes sometimes. ICE is going to be too rough with somebody or, you know, they're dealing with rough people. They're going to make a mistake. Sometimes it can happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: How do you hear that? I mean, it's a rare admission that he said. I mean, he did say they're going to make a mistake, that sometimes it can happen. He has really not said that before.
HER: I mean, I think -- it's interesting that he would say now that they would make a mistake when really just a couple of nights ago when ICE went in and forcibly took an American citizen out of his home on the east side of Saint Paul, you know, the treatment that was given. And then the statement made by his officers have the federal government and saying that they were looking for individuals who were sex offenders, who live in that house with that family, when that is just not true. There was no admission of a mistake that was being made.
And so, I think it is important for us to remember that the words that are coming out of our presidents mouth does not match the actions that we are seeing on the streets.
BURNETT: I want to ask you one question about that. DHS does tell CNN it was executing a search warrant at that home. You're referring to, that they were looking for two men they say were convicted of sex crimes. Obviously, as you point out, his family denies anybody like that lives in the house. And then Tom Homan said today, the homeowner was not cooperating with officers. So that they detained him until they could confirm his identity, that's what they've told us at this point.
I'm curious, Mayor, though, and I've been asking this question to try to understand the individuals that they're talking about, the ones convicted of sex crimes. Do you know anything that would contradict that, those other individuals? And if so, do you have any understanding as to why those individuals would not long ago have been deported?
HER: You know, I can't -- I can't assume what it is that ICE is doing or who they're looking for. I mean, I have to believe that they are carrying out the orders that they are supposed to. What I can tell you is that I have spoken firsthand with this family. No one in that home lives there with that kind of background and with that kind of criminal record, and that this family has been in this home for the last two years.
And so, what they are saying about who they were looking for just isn't true. And when they were offered, offered identification of the individual that they were detaining, they did not even entertain that.
And so, I think that the facts of what the family is experiencing and what they're reporting out are two very different things. And I will say that based on all of the cases that I have seen unfold here, I am more likely to believe my residents than what is being reported out of this federal government.
[19:30:01]
BURNETT: All right. Mayor Her, we're appreciative of your time tonight. And thank you.
HER: Thank you so much.
BURNETT: And next, a Trump appointed judge taking Trump's hand-picked attorney Lindsey Halligan to task, telling her this charade -- that's the word he used -- must end. And he actually is barring her from his words, masquerading as a top U.S. attorney. An incredible moment today. Plus, our KFILE with an exclusive update on the Goldman Sachs
executive who Jeffrey Epstein once called his great defender. New court documents revealing just how much Epstein relied on her and the role she played in trying to kill an ABC interview with a victim.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Breaking news, a Trump appointed federal judge barring Lindsey Halligan, Trump's handpicked top prosecutor who brought the DOJ's case against James Comey as a U.S. attorney.
[19:35:01]
The judge today writing, and I quote, this charade of Ms. Halligan masquerading as the United States attorney for this district in direct defiance of binding court orders, must come to an end.
A pretty stunning statement to come from the U.S. legal system. And again, just pointing out it was made by a Trump appointed federal judge.
Patrick Kent is OUTFRONT now. He was an attorney in the DOJ civil rights division for nearly a dozen years. He's speaking out after resigning in May over concerns with Trump administration's policies.
And, Patrick, I have so much to ask you about on that front as well. But this news today was a little under the radar with all of the incredible onslaught of news that we're dealing with on things like Greenland. But this Trump appointed judge bars Halligan from using the U.S. attorney title, which is a stunning thing, saying that she's masquerading in the role in direct defiance of binding court orders. And the charade must come to an end.
How significant is such a statement? And words like masquerading and charade and come to an end from any judge, never mind a Trump appointed one?
PATRICK KENT, FORMER DOJ ATTORNEY: It's unprecedented. It is stunning in its scope. In the words that were used, you cannot think of any stronger language that could come from a federal judge. It's unambiguous, but I think it's important to take a step back.
This is a badge of honor for this administration. It's a badge of honor to be contemptuous of the court. It's a badge of honor for the Department of Justice lawyers to come into the courtroom and to lie to further the president's agenda.
It's a badge of honor for this Department of Justice to simply disobey court orders to further the president's agenda. So I'm not surprised, but absolutely. Is it stunning? Is it unprecedented? Yes.
BURNETT: Yes. And I guess if you take a step back looking at it, it gives pride in the justice system that it doesn't matter who appoints you, that you would have judges who would call it like they see it. That's what we all want in our justice system. And the DHS secretary, Kristi Noem, just a few moments ago, Patrick, actually, as we were in commercial, was we were getting some information in saying that they're going to be arrests in the case of protesters going into that church in Saint Paul on Sunday.
And I was just talking about that a few moments ago with the mayor of Saint Paul. But the DHS secretary saying they're going to be arrests. Do you think those arrests will be valid in this case?
KENT: I don't think ultimately this is going anywhere other than in the playbook of the Trump administration. It's really a pretty simple playbook. What do they do? They distract, they demonize and they intimidate. And this is just right in that playbook.
What they're trying to do is to intimidate. And ultimately when you talk about a protest, when you start talking about the method of protest versus what was the message, it's to distract from what's going on. They don't want to talk about the shooting and killing of Renee Good. They don't want to talk about the horrible images that are constantly going over our screens. They want to distract. And this is to distract and to intimidate.
But ultimately, they don't care if this leads to a successful prosecution or not. It's about simply to demonize this community and to intimidate it.
BURNETT: So why do you think Pam Bondi went to Minnesota today?
KENT: I think it's very clear why Pam Bondi is in Minneapolis today, and it really falls right into their playbook. It is to intimidate.
Pam Bondi came there today simply -- it's no coincidence that on the day that they enlarged the scope of subpoenas to the elected officials within the state of Minnesota, it's to send a message. It's to send a message that understand this, that we have every level of the lever of the federal government at our disposal, and we have ICE, we have the FBI, we have the Department of Justice, and we are here to.
BURNETT: Now, you obviously worked for the worked for the DOJ for more than ten years. And actually, at the end, you were working for Pam Bondi. You made a decision to leave, you say, because of the actions of the Trump administration.
So, how much long-term damage do you think has been done to the Justice Department? And when you look at so we hear about what was it, seven career DOJ leaving in Minnesota. We hear about it in various places. We hear about it in the eastern District of Virginia, as an example, where Halligan is, how much are we not hearing about? I mean, how much damage has been done to the Justice Department?
KENT: The damage is tremendous. It is long lasting. Its not going to be fixed with the administration change. And it's really on two fronts. One is institutionally, as you point out, this rapid loss of qualified prosecutors and civil attorneys. And that's what's happened.
Look at the civil rights division, where I worked. Three quarters of the lawyers have left. So you're losing, candidly, the people that I worked with who were the brightest, the most dedicated, the most compassionate, learned, the skill set, the institutional knowledge, all of that has gone out the door.
So that's not going to be fixed. And who have we been replaced by? But partisan ideologues. But it's not just what has happened internally, externally, what community is going to trust the Department of Justice.
[19:40:01]
Look at Minneapolis. Look at how this Department of Justice is weaponized against its political system, against its community members. Nobody is going to trust the Department of Justice. So, the damage -- we're not talking years. We're talking decades.
BURNETT: As you point out when you say nobody, it wouldn't matter what side of the partisan line people fall on. That, of course, is the greatest, the greatest fear we all should have, right, is that nobody trusts whether it's that or health or anything else.
Thank you so very much, Patrick. I appreciate it.
KENT: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, New York City Mayor Zohran Mamdani opening up tonight talking about his relationship with Trump. So, what is it and what are they texting about?
Plus, our KFILE with new details that he is breaking on just how much Jeffrey Epstein relied on a high powered attorney.
And a former Obama White House lawyer, someone that Epstein called his great defender, who's in a very high position of power even now. KFILE's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:45:06]
BURNETT: Tonight, where are the rest of the Epstein files? Amidst all of the chaos, so far, only one percent of the files have been released to the public. And obviously, we're 32 days now past the DOJ's deadline, the day that they were required to release all of the files still at one percent. So, we're doing the reporting.
And it comes as a new KFILE report tonight shows the woman Jeffrey Epstein called his, quote, "great defender", was much more involved in his legal and media strategy than previously known.
Kathy Ruemmler is a Goldman Sachs executive, also a former Obama White House lawyer, she was deeply involved in defending him, even appeared to play a role in pressing to kill, an ABC interview with Epstein survivor from even airing, according to a new court document.
KFILE's Andrew Kaczynski is OUTFRONT.
And, Andrew, obviously, she is still in a in a great position of power. Now, you've looked through this legal document, the specific one that I just referred to, all top to bottom. What did you find out?
ANDREW KACZYNSKI, CNN KFILE SENIOR EDITOR: Well, here in this document gives the clearest picture yet about how much Jeffrey Epstein relied on Kathy Ruemmler, not casually, but repeatedly, and at moments when the stakes for him were the highest. Now it comes from a civil lawsuit that was brought by two of Epstein's victims against the executors of his estate, who are accused of helping enable his crimes. Those are allegations they strongly deny.
The estate was required to turn over what's known as a privilege log. Now, under attorney-client privilege, lawyers don't have to release the contents of confidential legal communications, but they had to identify in this case, those communications existed and describe in general terms what they were about. Now, we don't know exactly what was in those emails, but these descriptions alone are actually very revealing.
The log details thousands of emails between Epstein and his attorneys and more than 300 of them include Kathy Ruemmler, including 150 direct exchanges between her and Epstein. The estate has repeatedly described her in these notes as providing legal advice, drafting statements to the media, advising on how to respond to abuse allegations, weighing in on victim settlements and communicating about inquiries from lawmakers who wanted to investigate him.
One episode we found that stands out in particular, this came just -- it shows just how high the stakes were for Epstein. It was April 2015. ABC News was preparing to air an on camera interview with Epstein victim Virginia Roberts Giuffre. I know you've interviewed her family before on the show, and she was going to publicly accuse Epstein of sexually abusing her when she was a teen and trafficking her to powerful men.
Now, after ABC News reached out to Epstein, the filing shows he quickly reached out for legal advice that included Ruemmler. The log appears to show her on more than a dozen emails, with descriptions like negotiations with media outlet to prevent false allegations from being aired and how to deal with media coverage of claims against Epstein.
The filing also says that Ruemmler sent a document to Epstein's longtime personal attorney labeled letter to ABC draft3 KR. Seemingly, she added her own initials there. The very next day, Epstein's longtime personal attorney sent a formal -- formal letter to ABC, warning them about airing the interview. This interview never airs.
BURNETT: Wow.
KACZYNSKI: ABC later said the story hadn't met their standards to air, and this moment really matters because Ruemmler has described her relationship with Epstein as we previously reported on the show, as informal, occasional. But here, the estate is claiming privilege over involvement at a moment when Epstein's reputational exposure was at its highest.
Giuffre, she died by suicide last year. She wrote in her memoir that she felt very proud of having done this interview. She was devastated that it didn't air. She wrote, quote, I've been defeated once again by the people I was trying to speak out against, and I couldn't help but wonder if a media giant like ABC could be shut down in its attempts to reveal the truth. Was there any hope for survivors like me?
BURNETT: I mean, just really incredible to think about this. And as you say, the contrast of the way she's described the interactions, informal and occasional, with what this shows.
KACZYNSKI: And you thought there, that log really -- it really tells the story just how you see all of those emails and heard Epstein or heard of Epstein's attorney, things like that.
BURNET: Yeah. I mean, so, how does -- you know, the way that Ruemmler describes the relationship, you know, square with how the estate is now describing it?
KACZYNSKI: Well, what's striking here, Erin, as -- is -- this isn't simply about representing a controversial client. It's about whether the scope of the work here described in these court filings matches how Ruemmler herself has described that relationship.
Ruemmler told CNN she didn't represent Epstein. She knew him as a business referral source when she was leading the white collar practice at Latham and Watkins, and he would occasionally reach out to her for informal legal advice. But this privilege log paints a very different picture in terms of both scale and substance.
For example, there's one email we found from 2016 where Epstein wrote to his longtime attorney in the subject line, he was, quote, waiting for Kathy's first pass on a public statement responding to sexual abuse allegations in the press. Thirty minutes later, we see in the log Ruemmler is added to that same chain.
[19:50:02]
So, this suggests that not only was she involved, but she was shaping Epstein's response right from the beginning there. And again, when you zoom out here, Erin, we see this pattern again and again, moments where Epstein's legal exposure, public image are under serious threat again and again. For example, the estate says, Ruemmler sent Epstein a legal memo on a lawsuit that threatened to undo his 2008 non- prosecution agreement. Ruemmler says she was not compensated by Epstein, so that would again put all of this work as free legal work into the realm of pro bono representation.
She made $22.5 million at Goldman Sachs last year. Most big law attorneys in this position, when they do pro bono legal work, it's for poor clients, for public interest. It's generally not for wealthy, convicted sexual predators.
BURNETT: No, I mean, let's just be clear that doesn't add up at all. And I think it's important to mention, you know, how much money she makes. She's incredibly highly compensated by Goldman Sachs. It's significant in and of itself.
So, what is Goldman Sachs saying about this? What does Ruemmler saying about all of this new reporting?
KACZYNSKI: So, we reached out to both Ruemmler and Goldman Sachs. This time, she did not respond to a request for comment to us. We did get a comment from Goldman Sachs, from Tony Fratto. That's their head of communications.
BURNETT: Yeah.
KACZYNSKI: And here's what he said. He told -- he said, told CNN, us, quote, it is irresponsible and wrong for CNN to draw conclusions about the content of communications from brief and generic descriptors of emails you haven't seen. Kathy was not involved in the privilege assertions or the descriptions in the log.
As Kathy has told CNN before, she never represented Epstein and never advocated on his behalf to a third party. She was one of many prominent lawyers he informally reached out to for advice. So the firm is standing by Kathy Ruemmler and.
BURNETT: Her description, which was occasional.
KACZYNSKI: Yes, and she's very much standing by that previous statement she gave to us.
BURNETT: Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, thank you very much, KFILE Andrew Kaczynski.
And next, New York City's mayor revealing what he and President Trump are texting about. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:56:17]
BURNETT: Tonight, Mamdani speaking out. The New York mayor pressed on his mysterious text messages with Donald Trump, as he now is shedding light on his relationship with the president. The mayor, delicately balancing a charm offensive with fiery anti-ICE rhetoric.
Gloria Pazmino is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You could call them frenemies.
JOY BEHAR, CO-HOST OF "THE VIEW": I understand that you're texting to each other. Can I see the text?
(LAUGHTER)
MAYOR ZOHRAN MAMDANI (D), NEW YORK: I don't have my phone with me.
PAZMINO (voice-over): A text message here.
REPORTER: On your long-distance relationship with Trump, who texts first and what do you guys text about?
PAZMINO (voice-over): And a text message there.
MAMDANI: I've exchanged a handful of texts with the president since we met in the Oval Office.
REPORTER: Are you affirming that you think President Trump is a fascist?
MAMDANI: I've spoken about --
TRUMP: That's okay. You can just say yes. Okay. It's easier. Its easier than explaining it, I don't mind.
PAZMINO (voice-over): Roughly three weeks into Zohran Mamdani's new job, the New York City mayor and President Trump continue to develop what many thought was impossible a working relationship between the Democratic socialist mayor of America's largest city and the president, who once referred to Mamdani as a lunatic and suggested he should be arrested if he ever interfered with federal action in New York City.
TRUMP: We'll have to arrest him. We don't need a communist in this country.
PAZMINO (voice-over): There's been at least two phone calls between the two men since Mamdani was elected. One about a major geopolitical move. The U.S. capture of Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro, who is now in federal custody in Brooklyn.
MAMDANI: I made clear to the president that I oppose this action by the federal government that unilaterally attacking a foreign country is an act of war.
PAZMINO (voice-over): That criticism took Trump by surprise.
TRUMP: It was a tremendous victory on Venezuela. And I said, gee, I thought he would have at least waited a month because I do get along with him. He's got a great personality. He's a nice guy.
PAZMINO (voice-over): And while the mayor and the president appear to be on texting terms, that doesn't always mean the mayor can get through.
REPORTER: Have you heard back at all from President Trump after he reached out to him, or has he left you on read? Still.
PAZMINO (voice-over): Mamdani said he recently reached out to the White House to discuss a potential round of federal funding cuts targeting sanctuary cities like New York.
MAMDANI: We haven't yet connected.
REPORTER: So he's left you on read? Just to be clear.
MAMDANI: Your words. PAZMINO (voice-over): Mamdani has also made his opposition to ICE and Border Patrol operations in Minneapolis clear, saying New York continues to prepare for possible scaled up immigration enforcement.
MAMDANI: I can't speak to what the president will do. I can tell you, however, what I've also said to him directly, which is that I believe that these raids are cruel and inhumane, and they do nothing to actually serve the interests of public safety.
PAZMINO (voice-over): According to Mamdani, his conversations with Trump are always about New York City.
MAMDANI: There are many disagreements the two of us have. There's no shortage of them. The thing -- one thing that we do have in common is that we both love New York City. We're both New Yorkers.
PAZMINO (voice-over): Despite their deep ideological divide, Trump has insisted he has New York's best interest in mind, at least for now.
TRUMP: His policies are not good, but maybe he changes. I want to do everything I can to help New York. So I don't know, I hope -- I hope you're wrong. I hope New Yorkers thrive -- will thrive.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PAZMIN: Now, Erin, I think it's important to mention that this is not coming out of nowhere, right? He has actually gotten some advice about how to deal with his relationship with the president. Zohran Mamdani, particularly from the governor, Kathy Hochul, who also has sort of an interesting, friendly relationship with the president. She has given him some advice.
And I think, you know, were only three weeks in, three weeks in, but we are not seeing the sort of aggressive, very scaled up action that Trump threatened before Mamdani was elected, right?
He said he would send in the National Guard. He said he would have to take over. That hasn't happened. So, I think for now we can say it's working. But of course, there's a very long road ahead.
BURNETT: Right, right. And we see how things quickly can happen.
PAZMINO: Yeah.
BURNETT: Gloria, thank you so much.
And thanks so much to all of you for watching.
"AC360" starts now.
