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Erin Burnett Outfront
DOJ List of Allegations Against Trump Among Epstein Docs Released; Don Lemon Speaks Out; Massive Anti-ICE Protests. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired January 30, 2026 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:25]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
The breaking news, millions of Epstein files are released tonight, including a list made by the DOJ of tips and allegations against President Trump. Does it explain why Trump wanted to keep these files from ever seeing the light of day?
Plus, breaking news at this moment, Don Lemon just appearing in court after his arrest for a live streaming a protest at a church. And he is breaking his silence. You will hear from Lemon tonight.
And, ICE out. That is the message tonight from protesters who are now rallying in cities across the country. Those protests growing and we are live on the ground.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
(MUSIC)
BURNETT: And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett on this Friday.
And OUTFRONT tonight, we begin with breaking news. Trump in the Epstein files. The Justice Department releasing millions of pages of documents from the Epstein files. And among them is a list that Trump's own Justice Department compiled, his own Justice Department. This list details a list of sexual assault allegations related to the president.
Now this list was released this morning as part of this document dump. But then suddenly disappeared from the Justice Department's website. That was noticed, called out, that got posted again. The administration claims that that snafu was because the site got overloaded.
Now, many of the allegations appear to have come from unverified tips. Some are incredibly graphic and disgusting and upsetting, frankly. The files also today released included a complaint from a woman who accused Trump of raping her in 1994, when she was 13 years old. According to the complaint, the woman, identified as Jane Doe, claims, quote, "Epstein was angry that Trump was the one to take does virginity and then went on to rape Doe". That's just disgusting and depraved. It goes on in graphic detail. These descriptions do mirror the allegations of Jane Doe, made in her
2016 lawsuit against Trump, a lawsuit that was eventually dropped. Now, at the time, Trump denied the allegations, his attorney telling "Politico" it is categorically untrue. It is completely frivolous. It is baseless. It is irresponsible. I won't even discuss the merits because it gives it credibility it doesn't deserve.
And Trump's DOJ again stressing, quote, "this production may include fake or falsely submitted images, documents or videos as everything that was sent to the FBI by the public was included in the production that is responsive to the act. Referring to the act of Congress forcing them to release these files, of which this chunk they're releasing, of course, is a month after the deadline.
And while Trump is not accused of any wrongdoing in relation to Epstein at this time, he has fought vehemently and obsessively against the release of the files. Lashing out at reporters who have pressed him for a long, long time on why his Justice Department has been so slow to release anything.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have nothing to do with Jeffrey Epstein. You just keep going on the Epstein files, and what the Epstein is, is a Democrat hoax.
We have nothing to do with Epstein. The Democrats do. All of his friends were Democrats.
REPORTER: If there's nothing incriminating in the files, sir, why not --
TRUMP: Quiet. Quite, piggy.
When you talk about the Epstein hoax.
It's just a hoax. The whole Epstein thing is a Democrat hoax.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Ironically, you know, when Trump and Epstein were hanging out, Trump was a Democrat.
While Trump's Justice Department did release more than three million pages today, including 2,000 videos and 180,000 images. There is still more. And that's important to note. The DOJ is admitting that there is more, but they will never see the day, the light of day.
Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche says they are most likely going to be withheld, but he says that it's not because they're trying to protect Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TODD BLANCHE, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: We complied with the statute. We complied with the act, and there is no -- we did not protect President Trump. We didn't protect or not protect anybody. I mean, I think that -- that we -- that there's a hunger or a thirst for information that I do not think will be satisfied by the review of these documents.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: That's pretty blunt to admit that he does not think it will be satisfied. It is important to note, though, when you see Todd Blanche there, and obviously, he's the one who went down and met with Ghislaine Maxwell in that meeting. That then, of course, was almost immediately followed by her being put in that light touch facility that she was moved to.
But he, Todd Blanche was the one doing all the Epstein announcing today. The attorney general, Pam Bondi, is number two, right? So it wasn't Pam Bondi herself. She was busy talking about Don Lemon.
Her absence coming after Trump's chief of staff, Susie Wiles, told "Vanity Fair" that Bondi, quote, "whiffed" on her handling of the files.
Now, MJ Lee is OUTFRONT, live in Washington to begin our coverage of this breaking story.
And, MJ, you know, I share just a couple of extremely graphic and disturbing things in these files. There is so much awful stuff in here, but you have been going through them all day.
What else have you learned about how often Trump appears in these files?
MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL ENTERPRISE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Erin, he is in these files with some frequency. His name is mentioned in a bunch of different contexts. But one thing that was noteworthy, from what we learned from these batch of files that were released today, is that there appears to have been internal discussions inside the FBI as recently as last summer, where they were discussing allegations of abuse leveled against Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein. We are talking about this one document where FBI officials are compiling a list, basically, of allegations of abuse leveled against Donald Trump that came in via an FBI tip line.
Now, we are not detailing these allegations. They are not verified. But what is noteworthy is that these FBI officials go to some lengths to even color code and categorize these claims, saying that yellow is going to be for the more salacious ones.
We don't know exactly what happened with all of these tips, because there's not a lot of information in this document. We can tell that some of them, the FBI, followed up on, others they didn't. Some tips they actually deemed at the time as not credible.
But what is important here, sort of politically speaking, and giving us an inside look at sort of the process and the internal conversations, is the fact that these internal discussions about Donald Trump did happen as recently as last year. Now, one more quick thing that I want to mention, something that we saw for the first time related to Donald Trump in these documents is an FBI complaint form where one woman says that she was raped by Donald Trump when she was 13.
As you noted, though, and importantly, these are allegations that are mirrored in this Jane Doe's allegations in previous lawsuits from 2016. And those lawsuits, we should note, were dropped. And Trump, of course, has vehemently denied these allegations.
But I think, Erin, you make a really good point about previous statements, repeated statements from the president calling all of this a hoax, basically trying to say there's nothing to see here about me. Well, there are certainly a lot of references about Donald Trump, and you can certainly get a better picture of why he and those around him wouldn't have necessarily wanted these kinds of details to come out into the public light.
BURNETT: Yeah.
MJ Lee, thank you very much.
And Ryan Goodman and Barry Levine are with me here. In a moment. I'm going to be joined by Epstein survivor Danielle Bensky. She will be with me in just a moment.
But let's go through what's in these files, gentlemen, first.
Ryan, there's a lot of disgusting stuff in here. Okay? Theres a lot of other very famous people who are in here. I'm not going to get into all of it here tonight, because we know were going through and vetting everything bit by bit. But there are some depraved, nasty stuff in here.
Do these documents explain when you look at it, you know, from Trump's specific perspective, right, as opposed to some of these other individuals that are mentioned why he was so opposed to releasing them?
RYAN GOODMAN, FORMER SPECIAL COUNSEL AT DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE: They very well might, in the sense that the allegations that are in there, the unverified tips, are not painting him in any pleasant picture. And so, even if they could not be corroborated or were false, it just really could be very damaging to him. And maybe that's the last thing he wants. Which would mean in his calculation, he may be prizes that over releasing the files, even though he's maybe not directly implicated. And then given that people really want the files for other forms of accountability, all the other men that were directly involved in perpetrating these horrific acts, not to get that out to the public, that's the concern, that that would be his calculation or his trade off.
BURNETT: And, Barry, I'm just looking for the words here of exactly what Todd Blanche said. But at the end, right, there's a hunger or thirst for information that I do not think will be satisfied by the review of these documents, as he is basically saying, this is a lot and be happy with what you got, because this is it. You're sitting here basically a career covering this, saying there was a lot you believed to be there that you hoped to see that now we didn't see and may never see.
BARRY LEVINE, AUTHOR, "THE SPIDER: INSIDE THE CRIMINAL WEB OF JEFFREY EPSTEIN & GHISLAINE MAXWELL": Yeah. Erin, I mean, it looks like our hopes are dashed in some way that were never going to really see accountability of the other men who took part in this. And that, to me, is the very worst of all of this is that there are men out there who took part that that will never -- their names may never come to the light of day, and they'll never be prosecuted. And Thomas Massie, who has spearheaded this transparency act with the Ro Khanna.
BURNETT: Ro Khanna.
LEVINE: Said that there were 20 men -- and he described -- he didn't name them.
[19:10:01]
But he said, you know, they were from entertainment and politics, billionaires. There are, he said, 302 reports from the FBI, witness reports that name these men and dictate what they did so far in looking at all of this today, I'm not seeing any of this. In addition to that, I have to say this. And you have to take this with a grain of salt. Ghislaine Maxwell's attorneys came out the other day and said that there were 25 men who received -- who took part in settlements with the department of justice, and that was information that was left out of her trial. And that's why she is appealing.
So, you know, we know that there's multiple men involved. Why are we not seeing these documents?
BURNETT: I mean, and, Ryan, you know, which is stunning because there are some very public people who are identified, very wealthy people. But Thomas Massie had said if they don't put it out there, I'm going to put the names out there. Can you do that?
GOODMAN: He can. I mean, he could in multiple ways. In fact, he there are very few people in the United States who could do that and not even worry about any kind of legal liability. He has speech and debate clause immunity so he can go before, so --
BURNETT: He could do it and not get sued by every single one.
GOODMAN: Absolutely. And Marjorie Taylor Greene said that she would have done it were she in Congress. She's no longer there. Maybe she even predicted that this day might come in which it would then be on her as to whether or not she would honor that promise. But that is something he can do as a member of Congress.
BURNETT: So. So, Barry, you know, when we -- we go through what -- what we saw in there.
LEVINE: Yeah.
BURNETT: You know, and there's 1.5 million pages. All right. And some of the most depraved and awful things have come out. You know, we talk about the allegations in the 13-year-old girl. There are others.
And then there are other very depraved things involving other very well-known individuals. What stands out to you?
LEVINE: Well, related to the 13-year-old girl. And again, this is something that I have investigated for years. And, you know, was it real allegations or was it a political hit job at the beginning of the 2016 campaign?
BURNETT: Right, it was very hard to tell. She withdrew it.
LEVINE: The woman was supposed to appear at a press conference at the last minute. She didn't. Her lawyer said that there were death threats against her. She was only interviewed only once, very briefly by a journalist. That's really all we have.
My investigation showed that the men who took part in her website might have done it for political reasons. So again, there's a lot of allegations. There's a lot of allegations there, horrible allegations. But we don't really know the truth of that.
And then of course, you have horrible other stuff that's put out that now will remain as a cesspool on X, on Twitter, in terms of these allegations against Donald Trump that are completely, as "The New York Times" said, completely uncorroborated. We don't know if the FBI ever really investigated them, but I do think that conspiracy theorists now will begin digging into these allegations to see if they can support any of them.
So it is, you know, if anything, it's embarrassing for the president to have this material out there.
BURNETT: Well, it certainly is. I mean, no, to think to have your name in any such light is horrific.
But, Ryan, do we ever get to the bottom of it, or is this just a nasty cesspool? You know, porridge over here. And he, you know, moves on?
GOODMAN: I think there are ways to get to the bottom of it. I'll name a couple. Congress could sue. So, you could have a committee sue. You could have a chamber sue. And there are efforts right now in both the senate and the house side to do something like that.
Were they to sue, then a judge would be able to make a determination of what's actually being released. What hasn't been released. The judge can say, well, just share it with me and I'll be able to determine whether or not this is compliant with the law, because what Todd Blanche said today, in terms of what he's holding back, is not consistent with the legislation. The legislation specifically says that deliberative material is what needs to be released.
BURNETT: Right, all of it. Not this, not this. We're done here. And I'm sorry if you're disappointed. Actually, it was more than that. It was. I know you're disappointed, but this is all you're getting.
GOODMAN: Right. And then one other one is just -- to put this out there. State prosecutions. There is no statute of limitations in New York for these kinds of alleged abuses of sexual minors. The state of New York right now, I would imagine, be going through these materials to see what are the leads as to investigations that could be opened or could be continued.
BURNETT: All right. Ryan, Barry, thank you very much.
And I want to go now, as promised to Danielle Bensky, an Epstein survivor and well known to so many on our show.
So, Danielle, I'm glad to be talking to you.
DANIELLE BENSKY, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: Thank you for having me.
BURNETT: You know, there's a part of me that says I wouldn't have known if we ever really would be talking under these circumstances, you know, that there would be this much. But then I look at it and I see that it's not everything. And I also see that, you know, that, again, we heard from the Department of Justice, this is about protecting victims.
But if you go through it today, Ryan's talking about all these men's names who were redacted, but multiple Epstein survivors names are not redacted. You say that you found your own name unredacted.
DANIELLE BENSKY, JEFFREY EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: Yes. True. Yeah. So, I -- you know, immediately I was like, okay, I know nothing's going to come up, but I'll put my name in and see what happens. And of course, there's like a lot of information that came up and it was like that. So, we are taking time to redact and protect the perpetrators, and we are leaving those who are vulnerable completely just out there for the public to see.
[19:15:06]
There have been Jane Does that have been outed today. There are people whose phone numbers that, you know, they weren't actually even fully involved. And their numbers have become, you know, been out now.
So, it just is like, you know, it's a rabbit hole. And I think that, you know, we just have very little faith in the DOJ at this point to continue to do the right thing. Because this is something that they said, you know, okay, were going through the files. That's what's taking so long.
You know, the 19th deadline wasn't met because we are going through the files redacting. We're making sure that survivors are going to be, you know, okay, and taken care of, and especially after the last, you know, on the 19th, I had found my name with that batch.
And so, I, you know, talked to my lawyer. They said, okay, we understand. We talked to Congress, congressional leaders, we talked to senators. Please, please make sure that everybody's redacted. Great. Everybody knows. And then it comes out today. And it is just a trove of victims' information. And so, what are we protecting is the point for me and for so many
other survivors because at this point we are hearing that this is it, but we have, what, half of the files that they know that they have. So if you're not protecting survivors, then what -- who are you protecting? And so, we really need to get to the bottom of it. We need to see it all. So, I think that Pam Bondi has a lot of questions to answer.
BURNETT: Yeah. And as we said, you know, she was nowhere near this today. She was actually talking about Don Lemon. Todd Blanche was the one doing this. And Todd Blanche said, there's a hunger or thirst for information that I do not think will be satisfied by the review of these documents. He actually admitted it.
But then he also talked about, victims and that and that he wants you to have an opportunity to speak to them that that's what this is about. I wanted to play explicitly what he said, to give you a chance to respond directly. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLANCHE: Any victim that wants to speak with the department has a -- has done so hopefully. If not, they should. The prosecutors from this case in New York have given hundreds, if not thousands of hours to working with victims. And that's what we do every day. And that's what we did in this case as well
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: It's such a farce. It is just -- it makes me so viscerally, viscerally angry, like it's a response to that because we as survivors, so many of us have been begging and asking to speak to the DOJ. I know a survivor who wrote a letter to Todd Blanche, and we have never heard anything.
So as far as our survivor community goes and we are about, you know, 15 to 20, I don't know, a single survivor that has spoken to DOJ.
BURNETT: When he says any victim that wants to speak with the department has done so, and that they spent hundreds of thousands of hours, you're -- that -- you're just calling that out.
BENSKY: It's -- it is not honest. And so once again we are like the -- it's not just even the lack of transparency. It's like we're -- we -- it's just we're covering it all up all the time, you know? It's always this like, oh look, we released this. There were a bunch of documents that came out and then it's like, fine. And there is some good stuff in there. Theres some stuff that we wanted to see.
But when you're basically doing it at the cost of survivors, it's just incredibly frustrating.
BURNETT: Danielle, thank you very much for coming in for talking to us, and good to see you again.
BENSKY: Thank you so much. BURNETT: Danielle Bensky.
And next, the breaking news, Don Lemon speaking out after his court appearance moments ago. The former CNN anchor was arrested overnight after he livestreamed a protest that he was covering as a journalist at a Minneapolis church.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DON LEMON, JOURNALIST: I've spent my entire career covering the news. I will not stop now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And from New York to Los Angeles, mass protests now taking place across the country, including in Minneapolis, where the chant "ICE out" is echoing through the streets on this Friday night. We'll take you live to the ground tonight.
And Catherine O'Hara, the comedy legend who starred in "Home Alone" and "Schitt's Creek", died suddenly at the age of 71.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:23:45]
BURNETT: Breaking news don Lemon speaking out for the first time since his arrest overnight in connection with a protest at a Minnesota church. The former CNN journalist, who now has his own show on YouTube, making his first appearance in federal court.
He spoke to the crowd and there was a big crowd gathered outside the courthouse. And this was just a few minutes ago. Let me play for you what Don said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: I've spent my entire career covering the news. I will not stop now. In fact, there is no more important time than right now, this very moment, for a free and independent media that shines a light on the truth and holds those in power accountable. Again, I will not stop now. I will not stop ever.
Last night, the DOJ sent a team of federal agents to arrest me in the middle of the night for something that I've been doing for the last 30 years, and that is covering the news. The First Amendment of the Constitution protects that work for me and for countless other journalists who do what I do. I stand with all of them, and I will not be silenced. I look forward to my day in court.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:25:02]
BURNETT: Now, more than two dozen agents from Homeland Security Investigations and the FBI were on hand for Don's arrest. That is a lot of power and taxpayer money spent. Lemon was livestreaming as he reported on the crowd of protesters, which interrupted the church service.
Now, since then, multiple courts rejected the Justice Department's attempts to bring charges against Lemon, a move that sources say left Attorney General Pam Bondi, quote, enraged. And so, according to the White House, they convened a grand jury. They indicted Lemon. And this indictment alleges that Lemon took part in a takeover-style attack of the church.
So just because of this, it is important to play what Lemon was saying as he livestreamed the demonstration. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: I'm just here photographing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you okay --
LEMON: I'm not part -- I'm not part of the group. I'm just here photographing. I'm a journalist.
We don't know. That's -- that's what they're saying. So were here just chronicling and reporting. We're not part of the activists, but we're here just reporting on them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: It speaks for itself.
OUTFRONT now, Jorge Ramos, he spent many years as an anchor for Univision. He is now an independent journalist, and he is on the ground in Minneapolis tonight.
And, Jorge, I am really grateful to be able to speak with you on this in this important moment. I mean, you have known don for decades and you saw each other covering stories across the country. What's your reaction to this?
JORGE RAMOS, INDEPENDENT JOURNALIST: Well, it's clearly intimidation, right? What's so interesting is that this is not normal. And we knew that Donald Trump was going to do something like this, because everybody understands that that DOJ is not acting independently, that Donald Trump is behind it. In 2015, I still remember he ejected me from a press conference simply because I was asking questions with his bodyguard.
And now, we're seeing something very, very similar. So, what we are seeing right now is that the government is asking us not to trust our eyes, Erin. It happened with Alex Pretti. It happened with Renee Good, in which they tried to portray them as domestic terrorists.
We know because we saw that we're seeing the videos. We know that they were not domestic terrorists. The same thing is happening with Don Lemon right now. We know that he's a journalist. He's a reporter. I mean, I've covered
many, many of the same stories that he has covered for years. And he's not an activist. He's not a protester. He's a journalist.
And let me just tell you this. A few years ago, I went to Venezuela and talked to Nicolas Maduro. He didn't like the questions. He arrested me and he deported me.
I cannot believe that right now in the United States, we're talking about a reporter that is asking tough questions and that the government decides to arrest him. That's exactly what's happening. The same thing that happened in Venezuela.
BURNETT: Well, I mean, it is amazing because you did spend decades covering dictatorships in Latin America. You talk about being arrested by Maduro.
You know, it's just -- I just am thinking here about what we just heard Don say in that church. And the reason I played that is, you know, people may have moral issues with protesters being in a church, right? They may have a moral question about that. All right?
Don was there reporting on it, right, that this was happening. He was talking. And you hear him there. I'm just here photographing. I'm a journalist. We don't know that.
That's what they're saying. We're just here chronicling and reporting. We're not part of the activists, but we're just here reporting on them.
It's excruciating, kind of when you think about where we are in the light of that.
RAMOS: Well, while Don was still arrested in jail, I was here in Minneapolis covering a huge march. Thousands and thousands of people making sure that ICE is. out of their city and protesting peacefully. But I was with my daughter, Paola. We both have a podcast, an independent podcast called "The Moment". And then we were marching at the same time with the -- with the protesters as journalists.
So, I wonder, while, I was talking to Paola. Hey, Paola, could we be arrested? How about if someone just stopped me and said, hey, Jorge, you're not a reporter. We decide that you are a protester. Can they arrest me?
I was going to say that I have the privilege, but I had the opportunity to cover seven wars. And it's always complicated. It's always difficult, and I always carried either a gas mask or my passport. And I cannot believe that I'm showing you this, but I -- here in Minneapolis, I have to bring a copy of my passport. I was born in Mexico City, but I'm a U.S. citizen, and I had to bring a gas mask.
It is incredible that nowadays in 2026, U.S. citizen in the U.S. has to carry something like this just to cover the news in the United States. And it is happening right now. I'm not saying that this is a dictatorship. What I'm saying is that the attacks on the press, on judges, on students -- it's all over the place.
[19:30:02]
BURNETT: Well, Jorge, I mean, I guess just to say this right, when you talk about all the things that you've covered, right? You're Jorge Ramos, right? People know who you are. You're a famous person. You're a very successful person. You have a long career.
I say this just because you're obviously acknowledging the position of, quote/unquote, privilege, right, that you're speaking from. But I'm saying, wait a minute. If you're telling me that as a reporter covering that protest number one and number two, as somebody who has an accent and maybe your skin is a little brown, that you think that it could happen to you. How incredible is that? Right.
Because you're Jorge Ramos and you think about all the people who aren't Jorge Ramos. Right. And what are they carrying around with, with, you know, without the platform that you would have had to say, you can't do this to me. Here's my passport.
RAMOS: Well, I mean, at some point, as I told you right at the beginning, I was ejected from a press conference, even though I had been working for 30 years here in the United States. And it happened with Donald Trump. Now, it happened with Don Lemon, and it's happening with many different reporters.
It is not only that they arrest you. Is that the intimidation that we're sensing everywhere? And the same thing that is happening with reporters is happening with other people. I spend most of the day talking with undocumented immigrants here in Minnesota. And they were telling me, well, look, I mean, if they killed Renee Good, if they kill Alex Pretti, what could happen to us?
I mean, I saw this morning I was with a woman who has spent two months in her house simply because she doesn't want to leave. So, it is happening to immigrants. It has happened to Latinos. There's terror here in this city. I mean, the fact that Tom Homan came and Greg Bovino left has changed absolutely nothing with the Latino community.
So, if it's happening with reporters, it is happening with the rest of the society, too.
BURNETT: Yeah. Jorge, thank you so much.
RAMOS: Thank you. Thanks.
BURNETT: Jorge Ramos.
And next, Democratic Senator Mark Kelly is my guest. He's under investigation, as you may know, for telling members of the military in that video that they don't have to follow illegal orders.
Plus, we remember the legendary actress Catherine O'Hara, best known for her roles in "Schitt's Creek". And I'm sure you saw her in the past month or so if you were stumbling across "Home Alone". She's passed away suddenly at the age of 71. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:36:28]
BURNETT: Breaking news, the White House mocking journalist Don Lemon following his arrest by federal agents, tweeting out an image of Lemon, to which they added the message "When life gives you lemons" with a chain emoji next to it.
OUTFRONT now, the Democratic Senator Mark Kelly, retired navy captain and astronaut. He is now under investigation by the Pentagon for recording that video that I'm sure everyone here has seen. It's with six other Democrats which reminded members of the military that they didn't have to follow illegal orders, something that Pete Hegseth, the secretary of defense, had done himself when Biden was president.
And OUTFRONT now is Senator Kelly.
So, Senator Kelly, I'm very grateful for your time.
You know, this is a significant moment. And you've got not just the fact that this happened, but the White House is celebration of it, right? When life gives you lemons and, you know, chain emoji, obviously, you know, to handcuffs and prisoner.
What's your reaction to how the White House is so gleefully and rightfully and trite -- and tritely treating this?
SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): Well, Erin, I mean, that's just -- that part of it is just obnoxious. But, you know, Don was doing his job. He was, you know, at work essentially, trying to give the American people the information that they need to just be informed.
And for that, he gets arrested. His First Amendment rights are now violated. He's got to appear in court, I think next month. They're going to charge him with a crime. I mean, this is outrageous. Its un- American.
And I'm really glad to see what he had to say because it's obvious. He is -- he's not going to, you know, lie down. He's not going to roll over. He's going to continue to fight. And we need fighters like him out there.
BURNETT: Yeah, I mean, Don will fight. I can say this as a longtime friend of his, he will not -- he will not give up. And that that perhaps was underestimated. You know, he and President Trump have a long history. You know, Trump called him a lightweight in 2016. He later started calling him the dumbest man on television. And he kept saying that about him.
Don has said Trump is bigoted and racist. Do you think that this arrest okay is personal for Trump, that this is any sort of personal retribution?
KELLY: Well, you know, folks at the White House are going to do what they think Donald Trump wants to hear people who work for him. He's got a bunch of yes people around him. I mean, most of his cabinet and the people that work within the Oval Office.
So, they're trying to get a reaction out of their boss. I think many of them go to work every single day, and their job, their number one priority is to please him. So that's why they put that stuff out there, because they think this is personal to Donald Trump, but it probably is. He probably wanted this because of who Don is and what he has said in the past in doing his job.
Hey, president's have to be held accountable by the American people. That is our system. And what Donald Trump is doing right now, whether it's going after me for something I said or Don for doing his job and things he has posted, this is how our system starts to break down and it's out of the playbook. This is what authoritarians do, and we're seeing it now in many ways manifested across our country.
BURNETT: So, you know, you mentioned what's happening to you. I mean, do you see parallels between what's happening today and the administration's actions towards you? Right. This whole investigation, this trying to strip you of your military retirement pay all of what they're doing, right?
[19:40:03]
This whole investigation, this trying to strip you of your military retirement pay all of what they're doing, right? I mean, is that -- is that -- is that -- is that what it looks like?
KELLY: Well, what they're trying to do to me is they you know, I said something the president didn't like it, even though I told members of the military essentially to just follow the law. So, what I said was I repeated what was in the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Donald Trump said I should be hanged, executed, prosecuted.
But their point is this is -- this is bigger than me. They are trying to communicate a message to all two million retired service members like myself and the rest of the other veterans, that you better not say something that this president, this administration does not like. Because if you do that, they're going to come after you and what they're doing with Don Lemon here is they arrested him for doing his job. They didn't like what he was reporting on and how he was getting that message out.
So again, they are trying to send a message. It's not just about Don Lemon, Erin, this is also about you and every other journalist in this country. If you cross this president, he's going to come after you. And I -- we've never seen anything like this in our 250 years. That's why it's important for all of us to stand up and speak out and point out as frequently as we can, the violations of people's rights that we're seeing from this White House.
BURNETT: Senator Kelly, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much for being with me on this Friday night.
KELLY: All right. Thank you for having me on.
BURNETT: And next, the breaking news. Anger on the streets of Los Angeles. Protesters now clashing with agents. We're going to take you to the ground there live tonight.
And tributes pouring in after actress Catherine O'Hara of "Home Alone" and "Schitt's Creek" fame passed away at the age of 71. We'll remember her.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:46:43]
BURNETT: Breaking news, just moments ago. You see the spray in Los Angeles, protests getting intense. There. I can tell you exactly that. That was. But that was just sprayed by officers into the gathering crowd in L.A. Comes amidst a day of protests across the nation.
Thousands and thousands gathering in New York, Atlanta, Chicago, Phoenix, Los Angeles protesting against President Trump's immigration crackdown.
Just look at those images on your screen.
I want to go straight to Veronica Miracle because she is there on the ground in L.A., where the crowd that I know that is around you, Veronica, is on ICE property. What are you seeing?
VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, it's really intense here. And, Erin, I just -- we just all got pepper sprayed. And so I'm just still recovering from that. There's so much of the pepper spray still in the air and so, so many people around us coughing and gagging, including us.
So, it's been a really interesting scene here. I've never seen this before in all of my years covering protests here in this area, here in downtown L.A., where they were actually, these protesters were able to get onto the property. There was a skirmish line of police officers of Department of Homeland Security officers. They were in a bit of a line, and the protesters overtook them and were able to basically push them further and further back all the way to the loading dock, where they essentially cornered all of them and pushed them back inside.
There was, you know, a bit of a skirmish. There were some pepper spray, people were throwing bottles, but ultimately these protesters have overtaken this property, which I have never seen before. Usually, police are here and they're able to keep protesters off of the property.
This is a crowd that is kind of at the tail end of a very long protest. This started at 1:00 p.m. local over in city hall. Okay, I just got hit. Hold on, hold on. I just got -- sorry.
BURNETT: All right, take your time there, Veronica.
MIRACLE: Sorry. You can't breathe. I'm sorry.
BURNETT: Take your time. Take your time. Right. Let's just make sure Veronica's okay.
MIRACLE: Yeah. Sorry about that. Yeah.
UNIDNETIFIED MALE; Let's go back.
MIRACLE: All right. So obviously, they're -- they're shooting. They're shooting something. Pepper balls or something. So, it looks like you can see an officer back there. He's alone, and they're just throwing things at him.
I mean, it's just pretty incredible that these protesters have overtaken this. And there's really. There's no police.
I don't see anybody here to kind of manage this crowd. So like I was saying, this is at the tail end of a very long day. It looks like they're -- they're cheering because they were able to push that officer back inside. Okay. And now people okay.
All right. Hold on. Do you see the police over there? They're all coming out.
And just as I say I was surprised to not see police here. They are coming out. And this is when things might get tense.
[19:50:08]
Yeah. So they've got -- they've got a line, I don't know, a couple, maybe a couple of dozen of police officers. And you've got hundreds of people behind us as well. I don't know what these officers are planning on doing. But they're facing a very volatile crowd here.
This was a peaceful protest. There was students from walkouts, from schools. There were a lot of peaceful protesters. And this is obviously turned very violent here.
It's really -- okay. Thank you. So we're just going to try and maintain a distance because we don't want to get caught in the crossfire.
BURNETT: Yeah, please be careful.
MIRACLE: I mean, I -- yeah, I really feel yeah. For the position that these officers are in because this is not a good position for them at all. They're really backed into a corner here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're coming out.
MIRACLE: All right. We're going to back it up I mean, some of these officers are coming out in jeans, in plain clothes. Like it doesn't appear that there's any organized situation on their part.
BURNETT: Okay.
MIRACLE: Excuse me.
BURNETT: Veronica, Veronica, I don't want to interrupt you, but were being told that we should let you go. And I want to let you go so you can move back out of that area. MIRACLE: Okay.
BURNETT: Veronica, just incredible reporting, but so she can move out there with her crew. And photojournalist as we continue to watch what is happening here in L.A. outside that ICE facility, I just -- so what is she saying? You could hear her coughing and the pepper spray. But its' obviously a large protest.
And as Veronica was emphasizing, very peaceful throughout the day. And perhaps that's part of why there was no expectation on the -- on the part of police, that this would have escalated. And then you see that escalation over by the entrance to the ICE facility, by that one door, that when a police officer tried to open it, the crowd basically slammed it back on the officer. So, we are -- we're watching here, obviously, the visual that you're looking up at now is off of Veronica and her photojournalist camera.
And you can see that all that pepper spray in the air here. And it's a little hard to see exactly what's happening. You see people probably back in the crowd probably don't have any idea what's happening either. And all of it's happening right up close next to that ICE facility there. So, we'll see what we see here in this live picture.
All right. We're going to take a brief break as we get more on exactly what's happening there. We will let you know when we get a little bit more visibility.
When we come back, of course, we're covering that. And also, Catherine O'Hara, the actress and two time Emmy Award winner, suddenly, dying today.
And, you know, it's not just you. My next guest says that a whole lot of people are now questioning their self-worth and whether they matter. So, what can we all individually do about it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:56:44]
BURNETT: And now on a Friday, something we can all relate to in the images of those protests you just saw. We live in unsettled and chaotic times. You see them -- these images of pain and suffering and protest. Which brings me to an important new book called "Mattering", where author Jennifer Wallace writes, these widespread struggles and the effects they've had on all of us, from isolation to exhaustion to a persistent sense of instability, can also be understood as symptoms of not feeling seen, not feeling valued, and not feeling essential.
And OUTFRONT now is Jennifer Wallace, the bestselling author of "Mattering".
And, Jenny, I mean, in this moment, I mean, I just am showing those images and they are relentless and there's no breaking from it. And everyone just feels that this is horrible. And the next thing will be horrible, too. You know, there is this broader feeling of being unmoored, of loss and fear that you write about, and you see it through a very specific view.
Why mattering?
JENNIFER BREHENY WALLACE, AUTHOR, "MATTERING": Yeah. Well, I mean, those to see them all together is very powerful and unsettling. So, mattering is, a lens that we could look at our times. Not the only lens. It's a complex time that were living through. But the lens of mattering, which is, as you defined it, feeling valued. Does my life have purpose? It offers us, you know, a sort of the common denominator of these experiences, which is we are all humans. We are all searching for the same thing, to know who we are. What we say makes a difference, that we are heard and we are seen.
BURNETT: And A.I. and social media obviously exacerbate that social media in the current moment. A.I. in the current moment for everyone, but certainly in what it may mean in the future, for your value at work, for --
WALLACE: Oh, yeah.
BURNETT: -- for what is the value of human creativity or even human love and compassion. You know, and yet you have all these young people, as you talk about who are spending more time alone and, and in fact, sort of reveling at young and old people. Right? I mean, it's almost a social it is a social media trend right now.
I'll just play a clip that's been going viral, Jenny.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)
BURNETT: You know, it's self date I think is the thing. Right? So you put on your comfy pants and you light your candle and you watch your movie and you go to bed. And the whole point is that it's alone and you own that and you're proud of that.
And obviously people should be okay to be alone. It's better than being in a bad relationship. But you write about this.
WALLACE: Yes.
BURNETT: There's a very specific situation where this all -- I mean, I read it sort of painfully comes to light.
WALALCE: Well, I think we have overcorrected as a society. We have overcorrected this idea that we don't want people relying on us, depending on us. We shouldn't have to necessarily be accountable. We should be able to cancel, to take care of ourselves.
We've overcorrected. Self care really needs to happen in the context of community. I'm not here to say don't have your date night with yourself or your alone time, but when we do that, when we overdo that, that is how we erode our friendships.
And honestly, our resilience breaks down. Our resilience is rooted in those relationships, and it means showing up for them. It means committing to our friends, committing to, you know, the people in our lives that we will be there, we will show up. We will not cancel.
BURNETT: All right. Well, I hope everyone will get the book. It is very meaningful and so much, you know, it's profound. So much of how you take a word like that and break it apart.
Jenny Wallace, thanks so much.
And thanks so much to all of you for being with us.
"AC360" starts now.
